Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Trilobite]

Hi guys, our account has been finally activated. Trilobite=sottyrulez(=Sotty7+zachrulez) + Ojanen. We'll have an avatar soon.
This post is strictly Oj - sorry sottyrulez, simply no chance to run this through together at this gamepace if I ever want to keep up and post something.

hito has said it most clearly several times but since it seemed to me people were still shouting over him about Furc, I'll put out the fact again that

it is extremely likely due to the mod error with the final version of the rules that Furc warded N0

. Read the 2 first pages again. Everything matches.
It would require an huge coincidence with rule draft versions and Percy if Furc instead stalked/crafted a fetish etc N0 to create the noise as some suggested, or did something else. Ward seems a suboptimal scum action N0 from my understanding of the rules.
Aside that, Furc is very town to me due to how I have seen him previously act as scum/town.
But I have to say:

I should take a breather, and collect myself. Should. I'm not going to. You know why? Because it would not fit my town meta. I am very, very helpful while I am here. I am not going to be here all day, so people will be able to play while I'm away.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEASE stop spamming to "match your meta". You don't need it, most sane people see you're very likely town atm.
You had posted 83 TIMES the last time I checked in the hours this thread has been opened today. 83. FREAKING. TIMES. There was some good hidden in the bunch, but PLEASE cut the spam/repetition. It's

literally impossible

for me to play while reading everything if you post this much.

this head also thinks Benmage vs. Fate is likely town/town, and obv /wrists material.
I actually would love to scream my gut out to Benmage - while Fate delivered way too much pissing and spam from the provocation, the fact that Ben's idiocy is so maddeningly self-righteous and holier-than-thou manages to totally get me. But. Breathe.

I like hito/SpyreX as town.
I don't like AurorusVox; in his catch up post all the shadowing on furc, then going to great lenghts to bring up unlikely scenarios undermining hito/furc while still ending how they look town to him; essentially what SpyreX said. Also sticky with voting, needs to reread all that fluff after the thread being opened half a day to put out a vote?
I don't like kunkstar7. Savvy with the mechanics, but says very little aside that and antagonizing furc - disconnect could be due to previous exposure to mechanics though.
I don't like xvart - literally every single post tunnels on furc with now reluctantly considering the ward/rule thing in the beginning, and part of the crowd who didn't go check the signup thread before finding Furc's explanation implausible (to see how Drippereth signed up, then DGB outted with the intention of Elli to hydra with someone else, then El Goosuki inned.)
I'm ok with Bowser wagon.

I haven't read the last page, too damn many posts.
Should discuss with other heads before vote.

Oj

[Trilobite]

This is the first game I've played where I have had to stop even trying to read every post before posting. And this is still a strictly Oj post.

The people who are saying Furc is caught lying very likely have opportunistic scum in them, the one's that aren't scum aren't thinking straight.
LISTEN UP:
Furc claimed himself

in the first place

that he warded El Goosuki.
THEN, when asked why El Goosuki, he explained he sent in Drippereth, and he didn't seem to know who El Goosuki was and thought about the alphabetical explanation.
What on

earth

do you suppose is the scum motivation for manufacturing that explanation? It was not like he had to cover up anything at that point, he himself volunteered after saying he targeted El Goosuki the alphabetical explanation that contains a mod policy that would be extremely easy to get caught about.
It makes no. bloody. sense. from scum who could simply make up a reason for targeting El Goosuki.
Percy switching the night action to the new hydra name

containing

Drippereth I can see as a technical thing when Drippereth was in the sign-up thread.
That being said,
furc is 100% investigator to me but
FURC. STOP SPAMMING. YOU CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE HOW MUCH YOU ARE PISSING ME OFF WITH THIS WORD DIARRHEA. IT'S 100% IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP UP WITH AND POINTLESS, there are 28 players in this game and you comprise about a third of the posts which is anti-town as hell, and I'm destroying my keaboard right now with how hard I'm banging these words out.

Trilobite: Why did you vote for MoI?

zach wrote in the qt he didn't like MoI's attack on the early Furc-MoI exchange.

Wait, why is BenMage now not killing Fate?
Are we seriously going to let him claim a free insanity and not prove his townie-ness by following through on his threat? And we won't know if AV's scum until at least D3; so that's a fair while for all of us to live in doubt...

I have no idea why scum would act like BenMage in the first place, but I can't help but think SpyreX is giving him an out.

Maybe there is a fetish of Fate already out there, one not created by Benmage, who was actually stalking him. Maybe the cult is now concerned that more than one investigator with res kits will now be watching Fate's back; and would prefer this protective field dissipate.

In that case, maybe you'd ask Benmage to commit publicly to NOT kill Fate, and then lead the charge to string him from the nearest tree at the start of Day 2, when Fate's body is found, scattered like sticky red confetti.

Playing peacekeeper in this case is kinda suss, if you ask me.

Sorry, Seacore, I just don't see how Benmage's actions make for any sort of rational scum play. Even of the double/triple/quintuple bluff variety.

I'll

Vote: SpyreX

because I'm still not really sure why

he's so sure both Benmage and Fate are town.

Combination of underlined parts bothers me; although I now realize Tom doesn't necessarily realize his scenario is impossible starting from the simple fact that cult and murderer kills have different flavour.

You claim that the mod changed the rules because of a pm from you, but I think the rules for ward were already that way. It was the section under hearing noise that was changed. 30 minutes or so after MoI brought it up by quoting the hearing noise section. (post #7)

FOS Furcolow

I can't think of a pro-town reason to explain this, but I can't think of a culty reason either.

Scum mentality for FoS underlined.

You're saying that anyone who bothered to read the first post of the game when the game started is a cultist.
Well give me a robe becaue I did. The moment I decided to ward someone I thought "Maybe I should find out who is in the game so I can send in my actions" and read it.
Bet I wasn't the only one to read it before sending in a N0 action either.
Sheesh.

Vote Furcolow

This progression from FoS to vote doesn't make any sense to me.
From "I can't see pro-town or cult motivation so I'll FoS" to I this vote where I can't even imagine what is the supposed Furc-scum motivation to not check the name list again. Scummyscumscum.

Oj

[Trilobite]

We have basically mass claimed ward/noise but there seems to be a few holes in the chart.

ElGoosuki, TNM and VP need to claim if they warded or not and who their targets were if they did.

xvart needs to claim his warding target.

Andrius needs to claim his noise result

It's an all or nothing deal, most people have claimed targets and actions already. We might as well get everything on the table so we can figure out what to do today/tonight. I haven't heard any real arguments against that so lets get it done.

[Trilobite]

Xvart have you ever played with furc before? If so, what game(s)?

Fucolow also has a tendancy to vote/FoS anyone who votes/casts suspicion on him.

FYI, he pretty does this as town.

= = = = =

Okay, things seemed to have calmed down which is good. Going to ISO a couple of people and decide together where the best place for our vote is. Better post coming later.

-Sotty.

[Trilobite]

(Zach posting.)

Over the weekend I've been re-reading from around page 8.

I haven't been liking MOI's attacks on Furcolow from the early game, and reading up to page 20, he and others are still hitting on Furc for the night action controversy in what he claimed.

I'm not sure if it's been covered, or covered in a manner that's easy to understand, but for technical purposes Drippereth = El Goosuki. Drippereth is a part of the El Goosuki hydra and targeting Drippereth MEANS HE TARGETED EL GOOSUKI.

END OF STORY.

The people attacking him from page 8 to page 20 (Where my read is at the moment) are either incapable of understanding this, or are scum trying to bury him in rhetoric of a lie that doesn't exist.

I'd be happy to lynch pretty much anyone that was on him including MOI and Seacore, and I noticed Seacore was attacking Furc a lot on the matter, and Seacore is a more viable wagon than MOI from looking at the last vote count, so I'm happy to move our vote there, given that I don't see a whole ton of support going to MOI anyway.

Unvote: Vote: Seacore

[Trilobite]

Bit curious about this Seacore wagon, now. What's the purpose? We've got 8 days to go, there's no information you guys particularly seem to be looking for from him, and yet you're happy to take much of the pressure off other suspects who haven't talked so much - like Bowser, <redacted> and <redacted>, for example.

Attention: Trilobite and hitogoroshi

, very interested in your votes in this regard.

P.S. Rethought pinging my other scumreads on the preview screen; since I'm not ready to explain them. One at a time, easy as she goes.

SURE, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT OVER THE NEXT 70-80 PAGES OF DAY ONE! (Which we're headed for at the rate we're going.)

We've taken a clear position on Seacore and explained why we think he's scummy. I think that's plenty of explanation. I'm not going to fill this thread with a text wall that will ultimately have nothing to do with what position we ultimately take at the end of the post. The problem with these kinds of games is TOO MUCH POSTING, NOT ENOUGH BANDWAGONING in the early game.

[Trilobite]

I don't want more walls of rubbish, I'd rather you thought up a decent question you wanted Seacore, Bowser, or anyone else to answer, and then asked it. Succinctly.

But a quick day is a scum day, I don't fancy snipping a week off because you've gotten jack of the posting habits of the rude and voluble denizens of WIFOM alley.

OMG 6 votes, he's totally going to be lynched with a week left on the deadline!

And it's not like we haven't gotten any information out of what we've read... but at the end of the day, with all the people we suspect, we're only going to end up lynching one of them.

Also... not sure why you expect us to ask questions of Seacore. Is it impossible that we understand his play and simply see scum motivation behind what he's doing?

[Trilobite]

Middle of the night, caught up to page 29/Ojanen head. Powered by Bela Bartok.

Before we get to that, I did skim a bit of the last page and LOLHAI such lies are too much to bear so

Trilobite-
Isn't Ojanen that guy I nailed as scum in Gods and Men D1? LOLHAI DER.

1. Ojanen is a girl.
2. Ojanen has never played with Fate or in Gods and Men.
3. Ojanen categorically never gets "nailed" as scum by cases. Fact.
----

Furcolow - 6 (

MagnaofIllusion

, kunkstar7, xvart, Baby Spice, Lost Butterfly, Seacore, Super Smash Bros. Fan)
saving this. Decent place for some cult.

SSBF 491 - You hate Benmage's play (agree) and find the vendetta scummy (disagree).
You were in that fiasco of an /in-vitational where Benmage (town) et al were trying to policy lynch Fate D1.
Why do you not take this (and the fact that if cult Benmage could never follow up on his tunneling) into account?
Why does Fate's reaction resemble his town reaction there and Benmage's not?
The initial Furc vote is awful but what I'd want to know is regards the change of mind page 25

As much as I want to lynch Furcolow due to his scummy behavior, the ward evidences pointed out by AurorusVox/The Lost Butterfly/Trilobite are too damning to ignore, which points to him being town. Although I'll be watching him extremely closely, based off what have happened regarding the claims, Furcolow is not a viable lynch candidate today.

Can you look at the isos and state me which post numbers exactly convinced you? Need this for some timing reference.

clear-ish townlist at this point furc, benmage, hito, fate, spyrex, maybe Plum, maybe lost butterfly (Mina posts like town; Faraday muddles it.)

I can't get over how people are still not getting that Furc is investigator and that Furc warded

in the late twenties

and how it's still such a talking point and my notes are dominated by exclamations of this. Although the position is sufficiently ridiculous that I'd guess max 1-2 of them are incompetent cult not realizing this is not going through and is making them look bad.

I think you're more likely town than scum. I think Benmage is town. But I want to know why SpyreX is so sure you're both town that he's prepared to give Benmage an out on killing you.

Oh yeah, why would you try to prevent town from killing likely town. Um, what?

*sigh* Everytime I think I've figured out the Furcolow situation, a better argument gets brought up. Specifically, AurorusVox and Ojanen both bring up a good argument pointing towards Furcolow is town, but I also need to consider Baby Spice's argument. *thinking*

There's nothing to think by that time. Squirming on a sure investigator? Ends up voting Baby Spice at the end of the post for another argument but doesn't clarify any position or result of the *thinking* on furc.

10 pages behind still argh. Tomorrow.

[Trilobite]

Agree with whoever said push on furc was probably scum generated.
Consider two oddest furc commentors to be Seacore (oddly insistent in spite of really solid furctown case) and Feysal (had huge wall post where Triglav could swear he was talking out of both sides of mouth at once, had to re-read to see if we could even understand what stance he was taking)

See that's the thing that makes me wonder about Seacore. Surely, by the point where Seacore is basically pushing the cart alone (#445 or so), his scum-team would have been telling him to back off, right? The lack of wiggle-room he's given himself really makes him sound more like tunnelled town to me. Furcolow manages to give it a bit more momentum through aggressive rage-flail, but there's no obvious scummy support at that point; so I can't see it as part of a co-ordinated plan. If he's scum, the time-zone difference must be playing havoc with their ability to co-ordinate a plan.

See this is where we see things differently. If you want to see tunneled town, ISO Baby Spice. The last time I read her (just before the weekend) she was doing nothing

but

pushing on furc. The only time she addressed anyone else was if someone asked her a direct question. That is pure tunneling. Here your logic on hypo scum buddies telling the player to back off would apply. The fact she was so zeroed in points towards town for me. Mainly because I suspect if she was scum, she would have gotten some pressure to do other things like you suggest.

Seacore doesn't follow this mold.

I like the case on furcolow, I must have missed the case on Fate, so I'll revisit.

Okay, it's true, I didn't follow up on the Furcolow thing, but I also didn't vote for him.

Yeah, that doesn't count for too much, but I was out all day in between the early posts and the late ones. At the time, it seemed he'd been caught in a lie. Now that seems unlikely. I was also distracted by the Fate/Benmage lovers tiff.

Also, when I did my reread

(true, it was a skim)

I noticed somebody waiting for a mod clarification on Fur, and I was kinda waiting for that.

I'm satisfied that Furcolow has been caught

Vote Furcolow

Assuming Percy does not clarify that he changed your target, these posts suggest heavily that you have lied about who you targeted.

Wow, just wow. I'm no longer responding until either Percy clears you or other players bring something new to the discussion. But seriously, wow. Take a moment and, just to yourself, read over everything you've posted. Do you see how we're all viewing you? The image of a rabid frothing lunatic is coming to my mind.

Don't bother responding, I'm not going to talk to you anymore.

@Seacore, Butterfly: Could you please sum up why Fur's mix up with the ward is scummy?

Percy posted an hypothetical clarification, saying that if he received an unclear night action, he would request clarification.

It is the opinion of myself, and I think others, that Fur submitting a ward action of a player that was not in the game would warrant a clarification email. At the very least, you'd think that Percy would send back "Drippereth isn't playing, would you be satisfied with the El Goosuki hydra, as it has both DGB and Elliberth in it"

It is Furc's defence that Percy automatically upgraded "Drippereth" to "El Goosuki" without confirmation.

I find this incredibly unlikely.

Therefore, Furc lied.

Okay, I still find it really hard to believe that Percy would not have clarified the target with Furc, but I am being swayed by the argument that there is little scum reason to lie about it.

So

Unvote

The first two quotes (69 and 393) are extremely wishy washy. In a large theme such as this, I don't know why you would need to wait for the mod to answer questions before putting your vote on your top suspect. For one, pressure is good, running people up is how we are going to get things done in this game despite all cries to the contrary. There is no reason to with hold your vote at this point. But Seacore does. And he waits until finally Percy answers said question and suddenly furc is caught, when really, he's not.

A portion of the town take this and run with it, Seacore being one of these people. This is where he is at his most confident (Posts 441, 445 + 474). Furc rages for a little bit but eventually common sense comes back and the furc wagon is shown up for what it is imo, a cult push.

Seacore unvotes right away. This is not tunneled behavior at all. This is scummy because he is moving with the opinion of the town way too easily. Starting off with his lack of a real stance on furc early, leaving the back door open for a wagon jump. He then eases into “omg furc is mod confirmed scum” with a bunch of other people. Followed by the quick unvote when it is clear a big portion of the town doesn't agree with that sections ideas.

The point of all this? Seacore's push on furc was opportunistic. The fact you can't see that could be because you know him out side of MS, because I have been burned like that before. That or you are his buddy. But the fact is, Seacore's hands are very dirty when it comes to furc. He also hasn't placed another vote since that I have seen. How can he not have another suspect at this point even just to bandwagon?

Hesitant scum? I think so.

~Sotty. Currently only

[9]

pages behind.

[Trilobite]

RC Post 792: Ben never heard a noise last night. How will he die?
Edit as I read: Feysal also asks this question. More I think about it though it's probably a null point considering how freaking complex this game is.

Agreeing with parts of VasudeVa's vote on MoI. There was something up with his pressure on furc, but I doubt it was distancing. More like he sensed a possible easy lynch that just blew up in his face at the end.

This post by xvart is easily his best in the thread so far. Just because you are in a hydra, doesn't mean you can post contradicting reads and get away with it. That's the feel I got from Mina's list of questions, like being a hydra should explain all that away. I just didn't like how she tried to brush it off without really acknowledging this is what happened.

Has Zach posted for the tribolite hydra yet?

Considering all the heat your hydra was (is?) getting at this point, this just feels like an epic deflection.

FTR, Zach made all the posts in the SR account at the start of the game if I am remembering right.

~ Sotty, who is still nine pages behind but determined to get to the end of the thread today.

[Trilobite]

[quote="Trilobite]FTR, Zach made all the posts in the SR account at the start of the game if I am remembering right.[/quote]
Seems I don't have much of a memory. Zach made all the SR posts but one, I forgot I made a plea to Fate in there. Zach just reminded me. Back to the grind.

[Trilobite]

I'm back. I've been trying to keep up to date on my phone whenever I had coverage, but that wasn't often.

I seem to not be the lead wagon anymore? Or maybe I still am. If people have questions I'm happy to answer them. I might uncover them as I start to read more thoroughly, but it'll be easier if people just reask them.

My inclination has been to just assume LB and BS are investigators, but I've realised that's because most of the people who accused them accused me, and I KNOW that they were wrong about the latter. But I'm going to go back and look at them in ISO.

I'm struggling though, every time I think I've found scum and ISO them, they seem more investigator to me.
It seems the majority of people are demanding a cult targeted lynch rather than a general scummy one (i.e. Not going after a potential murderer) so I'll leave off the Benmage thing for now.

Bolded last paragraph for emphasis.

Yeah, the majority of people are demanding a cult lynch because the majority of the people in the game right now just so happen to be playing to the wincon of eliminating the cult. OH HAI, I AM CULT AND I'D RATHER JUST LYNCH SOMEONE WHO LOOKS BAD RATHER THAN SOMEONE I THINK IS CULT.

... but they are a potential murderer, so it's not so bad right? (No one can even become a murderer until quite a bit later in the game here, so hunting for something that doesn't even exist yet is just stupid.)

[Trilobite]

Feysal's ISO of xvart is pretty good. The fact he claimed to have warded MoI like Baby Spice does stand out. I don't know why he waited so long to do this. I had also forgotten that he had claimed to have not noticed who Baby Spice had warded. I have really liked xvart's more recent posts though, but this ward thing is hard to get over.

I'm struggling to remember the last time I saw any scum hunting from kunkstar.

Furpants lurker vote is extremely uninspiring at this stage of the game. I also must have blinked and missed the “useful” questions you ask Spy. You have a post number I could check out? Considering how quick you were to jump on our Seacore vote right after this I had expected more from you.

Seacore placating his own lynch is all kinds of bizarre. Don't like it.

= = = = = =

Where are you getting all this about WIFOM and overdefending? Even though people were calling those contradictions scummy, Iexplicitly avoided defending ourselves in that post, so as to get a better read on xvart and MagnaofIllusion based on how much thought they put into answering Baltar's question.

You were subtly defending with the style of questions you asked. Take this one for example:

Is it a significant scumtell that Faraday voted before discussing it with me in the QT or waiting for me to wake up?

If you can't see the defense of yourself in this quote then I don't know what to say to you. I will say being defensive isn't a scum tell, but claiming you weren't defending yourself when you were looks bad to me.

It's bad enough that now I have to waste time on this when I still haven't ISOd half the popular suspects. Now you're putting me and Faraday in the awkward position of getting wagoned for reasons that I know are crap and that I could easily debunk, but being told that if I defend myself, "Look, she's SCUMMY because she's overdefensive and making excuses for her behaviour!"

Now you're not making sense. Fate said he didn't like your defense with those questions you posted. He never said that any time you defend yourself it will look scummy. You are stretching with this. Quite badly in fact.

And LOL that the scummy posts are coming from Zach-head. Faraday predicted as much in our QT.

lol? I don't get this at all, why the gloating? Zach told me he has only played with Faraday once with your buddy being scum and Zach town. Looks like he could have mentioned in your QT because he knows Zach has a scummy looking play style. ScumLB would love this, townLB might be more willing to look deeper into it, questioning Zach rather than jumping all over it.

Is there any reason you chose to ask Zach to answer those questions and not our hydra as a whole? I think our opinions are out there on all three players now any how. Yes I will agree we haven't been very active, but lurky? Hardly. We have been posting, just been flooded out. This game is overwhelming and everyone is trying to get their heads around it. This just feels like you have been waiting for the “weaker” head to post so you can grind on him and look good. Where is the town motivation in that?

~Sotty at the start of page 39 and posting this now to prevent a wall.

[Trilobite]

Baby Spice, why exactly did you unvote furc in post 964? Spell it out for me.

I understand that from a glance that looks opportunistic, but it is simply realistic.
For most lynches you have a growing case against somebody, they do a series of scummy things, and thus to jump on while it's hot and jump off with everybody else, yet, that looks like opportunistic wagon hopping.

But that doesn't apply here.

What's your opinion of Furpants claiming you were tunneling furc?

I agree very much with Fate RE: Fate v benmage who can be the most confirmed! I'm getting sick of reading all these plans, from what I can tell none of them work without someone dying. Lets just scum hunt instead eh?

The deflection allegation is stupid, just because I'm being attacked doesn't mean I'll stop scumhunting. Oh and I'd totally forgotten about the sottyrulez hydra actually so I guess that rules out that line of enquiry for the moment.

I'm willing to cut you some slack for that. Considering how quick paced this game has been forgetting our account wasn't activated until a day or so into the game is possible. Still hated Mina's tone and her LOLing over Zach's posting though.

Re: Trilobyte - the fact that Bowser still hasn't surfaced IS quite scummy, even at this stage of the game.

Why is it scummy and not flaky? What are your thoughts on the RC wagon?

Also I was serious about your Spy questioning. I think I blinked and missed it. Any help?

= = = = = = =

And YES I am finally up to date. Excellent. I have been talking with Zach as I read/post and we are still very happy with our Seacore vote. Neither of us really like the RC wagon too much, pretty sure we won't be voting there, unless Ojanen has a strong read on him.

So yeah. I'm here finally. I feel proud.

[Trilobite]

^Sotty btw. Just in case it wasn't obv.

[Trilobite]

With the cult having daytalk at their disposal, I'm doubting that a cult member would bother openly questioning how their kill mechanics work when they can easily get that cleared up in their QT.

[Trilobite]

With the cult having daytalk at their disposal, I'm doubting that a cult member would bother openly questioning how their kill mechanics work when they can easily get that cleared up in their QT.

With the OP there I doubt anybody would need to ask such an easily answerable question, particularly one that would explain why there were no kills during Night 0.

However, you're missing the point.
None of us are saying that RC asked the question to genuinely find out the answer, we're saying he asked it to look like he didn't understand how the ritual worked, in an attempt to look as non-cult as possible.

Valid point, but weak IMO.

[Trilobite]

Dear

kunkstar

, who is scum? (I don't care if your not fully caught up yet, I just want some reads from you ASAP)

= = = = =

Re: Trilobyte - the fact that Bowser still hasn't surfaced IS quite scummy, even at this stage of the game.

Why is it scummy and not flaky? What are your thoughts on the RC wagon?

Because flakes usually bob up to the surface when they're called out. Especially if a wagon starts. Or they contact the mod and ask for a replacement. Bowser has done neither, although we know parts of it has posted elsewhere on the site. It takes strong nerves and a good reason not to respond to posts directly questioning you.

You're thinking of active lurkers with this. When I say “flaky” I mean someone who has left the game and not bothered to tell anyone about it. That's what Bowser has done. If they were active lurking I'd be with you, but they aren't. The two things are very different.

And thanks for the Spy link up. I will say your vote on him was pretty strange to me, and your follow up wasn't all that compelling either. It feels like you are trying to make safe votes off the beaten path for whatever reason.

Can you explain to me why Bowser over say Andrius or manho ?

I'd like to know what you think of it, too; but I'd also very much like to know what totallynotmafia thinks of ReaperCharlie and his wagon.

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB. Do you think Bowser is a better lynch than RC?

= = = = = =

Auro and Bowser by my reads. Auro stretches and dilberately misunderstands and Bowser is an active lurker who has posted in other games, (bowser is basically CSL from what I can see).

Um no. Bowser has an ISO of 6 posts the last “serious” one coming almost a week ago. This is not active lurking. Try again.

Well I don't think they're all scum, but here's a snap shot.

Plum, ReaperCharlie, AurorusVox, totallynotmafia, Trilobite, VP Baltar, xvart, Furcolow, Fate

Of those, I have a town read on Fate, and an null read on VP and xvart. I have no read (different to a null read) on totallynotmafia.
The rest are bad.
So

Plum, ReaperCharlie, AurorusVox, Trilobite, Furcolow

This is the first I am hearing of your suspicions on us. Elaborate?

= = = = = =

I can see why someone might find Seacore placating his own lynch as weird, but I have defended myself as town in pretty much the same way. I can concede someone having reasonable cause to suspect me and live with it, it is the irreasonable causes that annoy me and get me on the defensive. This could be the case with Seacore here, as well. I'm not sold about him being anti-town. I have noted his tendency to get drawn into arguing with Furcolow though. I can understand the temptation, I get it too, but it is really not productive. I think trying to get Furcolow riled up would be too obvious a ploy for the cult to try, particularly at this stage when pretty much everyone believes Furcolow is town.

The thing is, it's like a sick sense of people pleasing. I think townies are much more likely to get frustrated with things like that. While I don't expect rage posts from everyone, the way he was just like, so sickeningly reasonable eats at me. Zach has some (admittedly old) experience with SeacoreTown and he was much more forceful and had a backbone. He lacks that in this game at least when he isn't poking furc with a sharp stick.

His latching on to the RC case when he had to be talked into it is also sticking out. If RC is so scummy like Seacore's recent posts seems to be suggesting, I would have thought that would have been noticed sooner.

I've liked xvart's recent contributions better as well. The ward thing is actually one reason I'm not voting him. Both Baby Spice and xvart look suspicious, but one of them probably did actually ward MoI. Both of them making the same false claim would be a really long shot, and

I've been wondering lately about a possible Baby Spice/Plum connection.

Details on the bold?

= = = = = =

I'm quite confident that Seacore is town. He's almost up there with Fate and Furcolow. And I hated nopointinactingup's first post, but I agree with Faraday that SSBF's last post before replacing out (with how he volunteered his last reads) looked very townish, so our read on the slot is town.

What has made you confident about Seacore? Strangely I agree with the other reads listed here so I am interested in your read.

= = = = =

Post 1218 makes me think I am right to label Baby Spice as town. I was being swayed by Hito and her weak transition off furc. But I'm back to thinking likely town.

[Trilobite]

I like wicked's scum reads in those last two posts. I wouldn't be apposed to a kunk wagon.

~Sotty, who also wrote the post above

[Trilobite]

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB. Do you think Bowser is a better lynch than RC?

No, not any more. Mainly because of his sig. I think that RC is lynchable, because of his off-the-charts buddying and wagon-ridin' (though, as you mention, this wagon is suspect); while I guess I have to downgrade my read on Bowser to null.

Unvote: Bowser

Okay, so now what? Lets say you had a day vig shot right now and could shoot anyone, who would you pick and why?

Feysal:

I think it was Baby Spice who asked but I didn't see the follow up, why are you still not voting?

Other thoughts:

I'm feeling RC town still and xvart's counter posts have looked good to me. We won't be joining either of these wagons.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB.

Minimizing the nature of the reasons people are voting for RC? Check. Seriously it is hardly just for the ‘slip’. If he is indeed Cult I’ll be looking at your interactions more closely.

Nice conditional accusation. Have fun with that.

[Trilobite]

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB.

Minimizing the nature of the reasons people are voting for RC? Check. Seriously it is hardly just for the ‘slip’. If he is indeed Cult I’ll be looking at your interactions more closely.

Umm...

-We are minimizing nothing, we simply don't find RC scummy for that supposed slip.
-We realize that it is based on more than the slip, the case still isn't overly compelling. (Slip + meta + not answering questions + faking confusion over cult kill about cover it?)
-Why no threat to Furpants who we were agreeing with and talking to about the RC wagon?

Oops, forgot your RC question. I was pinging on his bravado and buddying earlier; but I don't like the reason this wagon's formed. I think his "slip" is a null tell, because it's overtly bad play for either town or scum; and I think the speed of the wagon has more to do with Seacore grasping at straws and people who change their deeply held opinions every five minutes leaping onto the latest pressure point.

I'd like to know what you think of it, too; but I'd also very much like to know what totallynotmafia thinks of ReaperCharlie and his wagon.

I'd like to know what you think of it, too; but I'd also very much like to know what totallynotmafia thinks of ReaperCharlie and his wagon.

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB. Do you think Bowser is a better lynch than RC?

[Trilobite]

Vasude Va:

You said we shouldn't be claiming insanities because it would help the cult more than the town. Can you elaborate more on that, especially since you made a reference to SA II.

Mainly for the same reason I haven’t questioned El Goo (surprised you didn’t bring them up also) about it … after seeing his flippant responses I don’t see much usefulness in asking questions that will not get reasonable answers. I simply note them and move to people I think are reasonable. It’s actually an advantage for you from the standpoint that if you are Town your response could help shape my read. My read on them will be formed independent of their responses.

So you don't think Furpants is reasonable? As someone who has engaged in a extended dialog with him in my last few posts, I think you are very wrong.

Your hydra contains at least 2 people I would expect a rational response from when questioned. Plus the use of the word ‘opportunistic’ doesn’t sit well coming from one of your heads. And since your posts are unsigned I’ve gone on the theory that it is that head that made the comment.

My question to you is this – Was the sarcastic one liner from your slot at the top of the page not a sufficient response?

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

The one liner was made by Zach.

The follow up questioning you was done by me, I forgot to sign the post. It was me who said the wagon was opportunistic and I do stand by that considering the inital reasoning and how fast it grew when other wagons just didn't go anywhere.

Since I made that comment however, there have been other points brought, namely Feysal's post 1354 talking about how RC had edited out part of xvart's noise list to make his case look better. I don't think the more recent votes on the wagon are bad votes.

I am the only one in our hydra who is up to date on what's going on. Oj is probably at least 20 pages back at this point, I haven't heard from her in awhile. Zach is about the same ways behind but seeing as I can talk to him more about the game easier than Oj he is a little more up on current events.

For the sake of argument, I am the one steering this ship for the time being. At least until we can get into night and the other two can catch up.

Here's a little thing for you guys. Start at post 1000 and scroll down. That is a pathetic fart of a wagon. There's no way in goddamn hell I'd want to support that. And now we have a RC wagon I kinda support, and the whole thing gives me the willies.

This is exactly where I am at right now. The start of this RC wagon was awful and I didn't like it one bit, but as time has gone on better points have been raised making it more respectable. But I just can't shake the poor start of it.

I'm pretty convinced by the arguments against Reaper of

Trilobite

and Magna.

You mean Triglav.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

meh yeah. What up Sotty

*waves* Welcome to hell.

Why the hell are we talking about a town list hat has nothing to do with this game? Redundant.

MoI

: Why no response to this post? Did I provide the answer you were looking for or what? With the tone of the questioning I was expecting at least some follow up there.

I don't normally post as much on MS over the weekends but I am terrified about leaving this game alone for more than a few hours. Later today or tomorrow depending I am going to try and review the MoI case in greater detail. Right now gut says he is an excellent alternative to RC.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Ojanen head here, actually delving knee deep to the mountain of catching up.
I'm vaguely aware of the current situation. I was cut by about 20 million posts. FATE should stop being ridiculous. Benmage cult is total tinfoil hat stuff. We've had enough fluff between you too. No matter what rhetorics you're gonna pull Fate, there's no chance you can find 15 people silly enough to lynch Ben today. I bet you couldn't even get many from the cult on, they'd know how bad they'd look.

I'm about 20 pages behind in chronologically reading this... but I just caught up about ten and have to say I don't like that Reaper is apparently close to being lynched.
I don't like anything of the earlier stages of the wagon I've seen so far, the only possibly genuinely scummy point could be meta and that's because I've never played with RC and thus can't judge the meta. But I'm not expecting Reaper to flip cult.
I think the rule mixup was used as starting point to actually gathering the votes. This one:

Wait, I thought the Cult could kill each night regardless of stalking.
Fetishes give people extra insanities, and the Ritual kills 'em, right?
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I doubt it was intentional. Reaper had been asking the question about what if Ben (who hasn't heard noise) wakes up dead and it's consistent to that. It would have had to be a longer setup if intentional. My impression about his posts is that it's believable he was missing the questions and forgetting quite quickly what he had been posting. Obv he deflected the hydra-contradiction question intentionally at first, but he was being too obvious about it to seem scummy/bothered by it. It's like people were accusing him of trying to appear pro-town by loudly exclaiming to be pro-town. But noone (except maybe Furcolow <3) who is trying to appear pro-town thinks that merely repeating I AM AWESOME, I AM TOWN actually makes people believe that.
Anyway, I think the rule mixup was more likely genuine and that in itself makes him more likely investigator.

I expect El Goosuki to be prob town btw. When DGB's town, I agree with a significant percentage of her one liner calls and their timings and I'm getting that here.

Something that makes me scratch my head about Triglav is that it's composed of Adel, Rampage, Zorblag and Ythan and yet their posts strike me as written nothing like the first three's style of thinking. I don't know Ythan and I was assuming he was writing up all the posts but then there was a reference to different heads writing different posts. Feels almost silly to ask but guys, are you

really

those four people?
Anyway I haven't been able to read them so far, very impenetrable.

Also, my No. 1 Scum Suspect is MoI, which is what I really wanna get to. Will have a separate post about him today.

Oj

[Trilobite]

Holy cow.
Fate has 5 followers which is pretty incredible. Most of them are weak/naive players though.
But SpyreX is on Benmage?

SpyreX is on Benmage?

[Trilobite]

I am sorry town that this had to happen. I wish I had some power to stop it.

/epic facepalm
Replacing antics arranged with the mod would have saved us from 2 potential town modkills if you're speaking the truth.

Oj

[Trilobite]

Noise, no ward.

[Trilobite]

I don't see how 8 grave robbers will guarentee that scum can't get corpse dust.

[Trilobite]

CD2

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Nope

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Nope

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Zero

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Nope

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

Nope.

[Trilobite]

@Trilobite - if we end the day with four bodies, we need 8 people to rob graves because that is the only way to guarantee that scum won't rob the grave themselves and thus get corpse dust. Of course if we assign two cultists to a single grave, we still lose. Having people just randomly rob graves is a one way ticket to confusion.

That's my point, it won't guarantee it. It will result in paying a higher insanity price collectively though.

(Argh)

[Trilobite]

Also

Vote: Benmage

Stop the madness.

[Trilobite]

You use that word townie a lot in reference to yourself.

[Trilobite]

Didn't a few people explicitly tell BenMage to stalk tonight and not reveal his target?

Who, and when?

[Trilobite]

Didn't a few people explicitly tell BenMage to stalk tonight and not reveal his target?

Who, and when?

Aren't you suppose to be answering if you think I'm cult.

I think seacore fate and spyrex may have suggested it....potentially others...also those who wanted me to delay the murder path. So I think it was suggested, regardless I did it.

No, I just voted you for show. [/sarcasm]

And when exactly does someone suggesting you do something mean that you should do it?

[Trilobite]

Meh... that vote was frustration with benmage's play, there was something else about crafting fetishes that made me think he had a good chance to be cult, but he'd only gain insanities if he crafted 3.

The only good reason to vote for him is thinking he'll take the murderer's path and that's a sucky reason.

I think Magna's question to Benmage is pretty ridiculous. Why kill a modkilled player?

Unvote: Vote: Magna

[Trilobite]

Trilobite, are you serious. He stalked N0 out of spite for another player. He stalked N1 AGAIN and this time even REFUSES TO CLAIM HIS TARGET. HOW IN ANY WAY IS HIS PLAY PRO-TOWN, AND WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING KEEPING THIS UNSTABLE PLAYER ALIVE?

That was my first reaction. But after getting past my anger for the play he made, he's still a terrible lynch.

[Trilobite]

Guys, something just occured to me that needs to be pointed out immediately because it impacts the town's plans to rob graves. (Based on Manho's post above though it may already be too late to prevent RC from being dispatched.)

The cult can ward too. Ward BLOCKS grave robbing actions.

We're essentially drawing a map to scum for who to block to ensure that they can rob the graves alone.

[Trilobite]

Argh, I keep thinking of it like a roleblock, rather than an indirect roleblock.

Nevermind the above rambling then...

[Trilobite]

With that cleared up.

Dispatch: RC

Dispatch: Fate

Cult could ward the bodies, but that comes with a price.

[Trilobite]

The general point I was making was two-fold. First that Zach’s response served only to be sarcastic. You rather closely followed on the heels with a general Sotty style comment. Since you are playing a Hydra and not making a significant effort to distinguish your posts the juxtaposition looks odd.

What is odd about it and is odd scummy?

This is just all kinds of weak sauce. You've played with me and you've played with Zach we are two quite different styles of player so even in a hydra the posting styles are going to be different. I have signed all of my posts bar a couple where I forgot, OJ has signed all her posts it doesn't take a math wiz to realize who made the others. You don't explain why it is odd and seem to be suggesting it was scummy (or else why bother bringing it up?) It just feels like a weak attempt at mud slinging.

I find it

odd

that you started this line of questioning and then promptly ignored my response opting instead to battle with Vv. It's like you knew it was a bullshit line of inquiry in the first place.

I'm also not sure what to make of the whole “a general Sotty style comment”

I realized I was skimming the last few pages so I am going to stop reading. Only a few pages back anyway.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Out of the damn loop for a change, have been V/LA - hopefully write+read up the stuff I wanted to very soon.
However

@Wicked's list:

we have not claimed to ward Hito N2, we haven't claimed our N2 action.

don't have very strong opinions on this matter (this head is only one that had an opinion and others shrugged a lot and shuffled feet nervously - rule set is scary)

I already asked yesterday, could you clear this up to me: it's really hard for me to see your hydra's posting as the people your sig claims to be. The writing/thinking style feels so far removed from ABR, Zorblag, Adel. Could you confirm to me whether that headclaim is false and for lulz or whether you stand by that being who you are.

El Goosuki night action is stupid as anything but I don't see at all how it's supposedly more likely to come from scum - I imagine scum would very likely plan their fakeclaims together.

Oj

[Trilobite]

Triglav is, and in absolute honesty, a conglomeration of gandalf, drmyshottyizsik, bv1310, and MichaelSableheart.

*snort* you'd be only slightly less unbelievable as most of those people. but ok then, will try to not let that fuck with my read anymore.

Oj

[Trilobite]

G-d help me but suddenly I'm liking Seacore a hell of a lot .

Ditto, glad it's not just me.

Okay, I'm seeing Tom's position on the Ben wagon a lot better, and it doesn't really seem like it's coming from scum. Not sure I like all the rhetoric he's throwing out regarding lynching (hanging, swinging, etc.), but that's probably just me being uncomfortable, and not something scummy.

Unvote: Furpants_Tom

I very much disagree with this. From what I have read Furpants seems to agree ben is likely investigator and wants to hang him anyway. He has done little to no actual cult hunting today or even yesterday.

Furpants:

Top cult suspects ASAP please.

I really like VP's MoI case.

Kunk is my second suspect and would be the only person I would consider switching too.

As for the set up stuff, I like wicked's grave rob plan. Benmage I could go either way with honestly, but the fact is, if he does decide to go murder we have enough time to counter that. I understand the benmage frustration, but he just isn't the optimal lynch for today.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

This is just all kinds of weak sauce. You've played with me and you've played with Zach we are two quite different styles of player so even in a hydra the posting styles are going to be different. I have signed all of my posts bar a couple where I forgot, OJ has signed all her posts it doesn't take a math wiz to realize who made the others. You don't explain why it is odd and seem to be suggesting it was scummy (or else why bother bringing it up?) It just feels like a weak attempt at mud slinging.

Right back at you Sotty. Your entire argument as to why I’m scum is ‘gut’ and filled with no support – weak sauce as you say. I don’t like the direction your arguments have taken because they very much remind me of your Newbie scum game. Your statement above is further indicative. Lots of backhanded insults (re knowing who posted) and accusations – very disproporatiate to the attention I’ve give you. So, yeah, chalk me up for a similar ‘gut’ scum-read on you.

The fact that you don't bother to do anything case wise but latch on with a "I love VP's case" when one is posted strengthens my suspicions.

Poor meta argument is poor. Clearly you are trying to make an issue of the fact that I (Zach) don't sign my posts to pad a case you don't actually have. (Further padded by attempting to vaguely link Sotty's posting meta to a newbie game scum game she played a while back.)

[Trilobite]

Except that 25% decrease goes into the next day phase and will present another chance for cult to get corpse dust when we dispatch Fate later anyway.

While the uncertainty of the flip hangs over the town for yet another day.

There's really no reason not to dispatch him now.

In fact, should multiple people die, this argument can be used to keep him from flipping for days. I'm not a fan of that.

[Trilobite]

Except that 25% decrease goes into the next day phase and will present another chance for cult to get corpse dust when we dispatch Fate later anyway.

While the uncertainty of the flip hangs over the town for yet another day.

There's really no reason not to dispatch him now.

In fact, should multiple people die, this argument can be used to keep him from flipping for days. I'm not a fan of that.

See, that's the thing.

I see absolutely no uncertainty in that flip. None, zero, zip.

So I'll be THAT GUY and say why bother with it? Not today, not later, not ever.

Its not worth the book or the robbing dance. Unless someone actually thinks there's a chance for a scum flip there in which case lets talk about how space monkeys that is.

Reads can be wrong. I'm presuming nothing.

Flip > No flip

By far.

@Kunk

Do you have any thoughts or opinions on Magna?

[Trilobite]

his attack of furcolow's confirmness is not something cult will do, and so hard. i think they would have given up that argument long before MoI did. they won't want that much attraction that early on an unlikely mislynch.

I would argue that furc is a perfect subject to tunnel on for cult. His play style is often the subject of much debate and many would excuse MoI for his push because it is

furc

. Also, if the wagon picked up steam and he was lynched, flipping town, MoI can just flip back to his first post touting it was for the good of the town.

However, the main reason I find his heavy handed push on furc so scummy is because it enables to allow MoI to look like he is scum hunting when he isn't.

= = = = = =

I think I’ve clearly indicated above my opinion on Furc. If you want to call what is in effect a Policy push on an absolutely useless player (IMO) scummy that’s your call. Given the end of Clash of Kings I know that you know exactly why I don’t want VI players around at endgame. The fact that you are specifically going out of your way to ignore your direct knowledge gives me pause.

All this ignores the glaring fact that if you are so apposed to VI's you could stalk/vig furc and be done with it. That way you keep your furchate, that had no bearing on the game, out of the thread and done something useful. Like, oh I don't know.... Scumhunting perhaps?

Right back at you Sotty. Your entire argument as to why I’m scum is ‘gut’ and filled with no support – weak sauce as you say. I don’t like the direction your arguments have taken because they very much remind me of your Newbie scum game. Your statement above is further indicative. Lots of backhanded insults (re knowing who posted) and accusations – very disproporatiate to the attention I’ve give you. So, yeah, chalk me up for a similar ‘gut’ scum-read on you.

You might wanna recheck that meta. I'm more logical scum than gut scum, but unless you can make a stronger connection based off more recent meta... AKA a game that isn't nine months old I might be willing to listen.

Also why does it matter that you haven't given me very much attention? We, as in our whole hydra, find you scummy, that doesn't have anything to do with how much you focus on us.

The comment about knowing who posted wasn't backhanded. It was clear who has been posting and you made a mountain out of a mole hill for a situation that wasn't even scummy in the first place.

I have noticed that you don't actively defend posts, you just attack your attackers with the hope of smearing them in your dirt making people forget the actual points against you. I don't like it.

= = = = = =

Furpants:

Suspecting the two rezzers is one thing, but do you think they are both likely cult? I don't have an issue with the rest of your suspects, just the lingering annoyance that I had to call you out for you to start scum hunting again.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

No, I think ONE of them is cult, and one is town. At the moment, I think there's a 55% chance it's npau, and a 45% chance it's Feysal. However, even 45% is a pretty high likelihood, so they both made my scum list.

Okay I just wanted to make that clear in my mind because someone had to have rezzed Wicked (discounting the WIFOM of it being one big cult plan)

Why do you think npau is the more likely cult?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Given this game has degenerated into what amounts to personal conflicts I’m going to make one final, and I do mean final, address to the following elements that make up the ‘case’ against me.

1. I’m being mean / vindictive / poisonous.
2. I’m being defensive / I’m more worried about my survival than finding scum.
3. I’m not scum-hunting.

1 and 2 aren’t true and furthermore are scum-tells. I’m far from the only person who has been abrasive in this game. And I did in purposely. I’m rather tired of getting killed very early in Large games when I am Town. Antagonizing those players who are weak enough to rise to the bait was specifically designed to lower my NK threshold. You may not like it but it certain isn’t indicative at all that I’m Cult.

See, the problem here is that you deny 1 and 2 while admitting to them at the same time... that's spinning my brain around in circles.

Also, saying you're doing things to avoid being killed early amounts to admitting that you're playing scummy. You can't say that people don't have legitimate points on you when this is your defense for those actions.

3 is a factor of my playstyle. Delayed flip games limit my strength which is Vote analysis and relational analysis. Until we have some flips that confirm alignment, and usually at least 1 Cult, my scum hunting is going to be somewhat hampered. I don’t really see any effective scum-hunting coming from anyone at this point. Truth.

Oh! It's your playstyle! Uhhh... no. That's not an acceptable reason to not be scumhunting.

[Trilobite]

Another observation.

On to general observations –

The following players are massively lurking.

That in itself isn’t a scum-tell

but in a game this size, especially with the number of spammers we have in the game, means that in this select group you can expect to find some Cult taking advantage of the format.

Andrius, El Goo, Feysal, manho, NoPoint, TNM

The competing wagons between myself and El Goo are going to be very useful down the line, I suspect. I know I’m not Cult and depending on whether El Goo is or not (the massive lurking from the slot makes me lean toward yes, BTW) a Vote Count analysis down the line will give you plenty of information about who went to which wagon and who stayed away from either.

Which is it?

[Trilobite]

I changed my mind. MoI speaks not like a cultist after all. What he says about future vote pattern analysis doesn't sound like it comes from cult. Looks like genuine town soul searching.

-DGB

UNVOTE: MoI

Relevent, this is not a town tell.

(Starts on page two of his ISO)

@Furpants and others who have commune book: I did not hear noise so you can confirm me ^^

I'm not up for a MOI wagon today.

Unvote.Vote:Kunkstar

What's wrong with an MoI wagon?

I don't see how it is helpful to talk about who did or didn't hear noise and why at this point. It's endless WIFOM no?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

El G's vote on Nico is super-skeevy. It seems an awful lot like "shit, who's lurking harder than us? That's the only person we can vote in good faith!"

Agreed here. El Goosuki provides no reasoning for why Nico's posts are scummy other than the fact that they are limited in number. Nico's post's so far have been decent enough, even though limited in number. I chalk the last part up to his play in general. So overall El Goosuki's vote is a poorly placed one, which doesn't even make sense considering El Goosuki doesn't even try to undermine the case she is implying scum are driving, other wise El Goosuki would solely focus on that wagon alone.

Hey Kunkstar, remember this?

On another note:

Vote: El Goosuki

, I can get in on this right now. Seriously nothing from this slot at all, plus a pointless action even AFTER they read AND commented on hito's guide.

What exactly seperates Nico from El Goosuki in content? Why is it that you don't seem the least bit interested in points raised about Nico? Looking at his play I see a total of 5 posts, with 3 different votes laid out. When I see that, I don't see a player that's really looking hard into anyone at all. It just feels like trying to look proactive, when you're looking at it in isolation, it doesn't feel like he's really investigating into any of the suspects he's voting for. It's like the votes are cast out there and without much further inquiry he changes them.

What bothers me though is the way you attempt to completely vilify El Goosuki for the vote. And your defense of Nico. His posts are decent enough? How? Simply saying they're decent enough doesn't cut it for me. Enlighten me. What makes El Goosuki's "lack of content" scummy, and what makes Nico's "limited activity" pro-town?

[Trilobite]

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move

have

to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

Or what Triglav said in post 2276

Trilobite

, MoI has acted suspiciously, but at least he has made some attempt throughout the game to scumhunt. The same can't be said of kunkstar7.

True, we have called kunk scummy and he would be the only wagon we'd be willing to switch to. Kunk pressuring Babyspice to give scum reads is pretty funny considering his play so far. His day one play in particular was horrid.

Right now however, MoI is our number one scum pick and leading the vote count. We won't be switching.

Feysal:

You did a nice little run down of each of the top wagons in that post, but why didn't you do the same thing for Babyspice at the end of the post? That vote just feels horribly tacked on.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move

have

to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

I just saw this and I think I can emphasise my point.

If manho or tnm claimed to investigate N1, I think they would have gotten away with it. Both could claim, "sorry, still not up with the rules".

There would have been a little fist shaking from the rest of us, pointing out hito had posted a guide, but it largely would have passed because of the page count.

So accepting that, scum could possibly have discussed claiming a crap night action as a good fake claim, along with searching for items, rezzing the ritual target and warding somebody. All I'm saying is they botched the night claim.

And you may have a point. Depending on what happens later on in the game this might be a good thing to build a case off, but right now I'm not ready to buy Elscum over Eltown. I also think the kunk and MoI cases are much more solid that your push on ElG. The fact they screwed up their night one action seems to be more of a null tell than anything seeing as you can explain it either way. I just think you are pushing a much more marginal case compared to the others out there.

For someone that is so careful with his vote Feysal's explaination for his Babyspice vote looks really bad. He is really climbing the scum list with this.

Was terribly interested in El G's (Well DGB) last couple of posts. Makes me think that DGB at least is starting to take an interest in the game.
Have to wonder why though. Or rather, why now? Perhaps the absent minded/dis-interest thing was an act and not working?
Which makes me wonder about their claimed n1 action. Sure it's a silly action but as a fake claim it suited the playstyle they were using, and as an added bonus makes us all believe that the N0 action was a search as claimed. What if it wasn't?

Why all the rhetorical type questions? If it is scummy,

say so

. If not, then don't bring it up. Also I don't like the attempt to make ElG look scummy for starting to play the game in effect. Would you rather they lurked?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I will avenge RC's death tonight
leave MoI for me
someone res me tonight
I am stalking MoI, I will use my res kit I have gained after I have confirmed my kill.

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only

you

can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

[Trilobite]

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only you can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

It's the former. No one can prevent forest fires when the main advocate is a bear named "Smokey". In this instance, MoI is the bear in always in the woods with the suspicious sounding name and the pocket full of matches. I don't really get this metaphor myself, but still, lynch da scumz.

It was just a bad joke.

[Trilobite]

Er no =). To me you're way less confirmed than Wicked. I want to keep MOI in the game becuz he would be a valuable asset if he was town. If he turns out not to be then we'll see.

He would be? Is he a valuable asset to town now?

[Trilobite]

lol, I got your joke...I was mocking my follow-up

Maybe bad humor will get people to see what the most pro-town players see as obvious...idk.

Oh! I'm slow, sorry.

[Trilobite]

Night is approaching, so we need to organise our grave robs.

Can somebody please post two possibilities? A 3 grave possibility and a 4 grave possibility?

Have a proposal?

I think it's dumb not to flip Fate. More information is better, and tomorrow we'll be in the exact same position (or worse, if more people go murderer).

I agree. We should get a dispatch majority done.

[Trilobite]

Obviously if Fate flips cult, (Which is at least possible now if not likely.) we have to wonder about the people who were so adamant that his flip wasn't necissary.

[Trilobite]

Dispatch: Fate

It's the obvious move now afterall.

[Trilobite]

^ (Knows he's already dispatched just in case anyone takes that seriously.)

[Trilobite]

BTW Seacore, where is Furc on your list?

[Trilobite]

Was he given another action that he refused to carry out in place of stalking?

That's mostly what I'm curious about because that would be most relevant to predicting the likelihood of him actually following through.

[Trilobite]

Dislike Andrius and (shock) Baby Spice for lack of vote record.

What about Feysal, who for the record has only voted twice. Once each day (RC and Babyspice)

For someone that is so careful with his vote Feysal's explanation for his Babyspice vote looks really bad. He is really climbing the scum list with this.

Why, something wrong with it? I researched the top wagons, and after I finished, I found I had lost confidence in those cases, particularly the one on MoI. I thought of an alternative, and voted Baby Spice. Or perhaps you wanted a more thorough explanation of the case on her? Here it is, I just did another ISO read.

The vote itself isn't a bad one. I had a town read on Babyspice yesterday because of a few things she said. Today however, she has been less than impressive and that read is being washed away.

But it stuck out to me because it goes against how you have said you vote.

To me, it looks like hitogoroshi is just being cautious, preferring to have discussion before committing to any plan or course of action. I'm all for that, that is how I (try to) play myself. I get what you mean, but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about. I tend to sit on the fence myself, and vote when I have something more solid to act on, or my vote is needed to secure a lynch at deadline. In my first game ever, I led the town into four consecutive mislynches. That was a hard lesson, but it was a lesson learned.

All this said, I'll continue to reserve my vote. I have many other players to look at, and someone might be more deserving of lynch than any of the three above. For now, xvart looks dodgiest.

No reason related to game rules. Vote hopping is just not my style. I prefer to vote when I have a more solid case to act on, or if my vote is needed to secure a lynch at deadline. That said, the case on ReaperCharlie put together by Seacore and MoI looks compelling, but I'd still like to read his posts in ISO before placing my vote.

These statements do not coincide with your Babyspice vote. You did a some what intense run down of all the top suspects of the day that ended with you voting for Babyspice when you presented no case.

So, guilty of lurking? Yes. Guilty of being cult? Perhaps. The RC vote is the worst of it, it does look opportunistic. My personal top suspect is still Baby Spice though, for her actions yesterday - time has passed since then, but the original reasons for finding her scummy are still there. What I've heard from her since has done little to improve my read of her, and I feel she has been conveniently forgotten with new wagons turning up.

Vote: Baby Spice

Will keep an eye on how the El Goosuki and kunkstar7 situations develop, at the moment I find them both more suspicious than MoI.

The first sentence is about kunk but you then go on to say that Babyspice was your personal top suspect, so why did you not include a detailed run down of her? It makes no sense and like I said the vote was horribly tacked on.

So, considering your own stated and displayed behavior in regards to votes, your vote of Babyspice sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a major red flag for me. The case isn't a bad one, but your motives look to be suspect to me.

= = = = =

I fell behind since my last post, but I'm back up to date now. As for the grave robbing plan I would be in agreement, but I don't think we can trust furc not to change his mind. It makes me leery of including him in the plan.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

True, we have called kunk scummy and

he would be the only wagon we'd be willing to switch to

. Kunk pressuring Babyspice to give scum reads is pretty funny considering his play so far. His day one play in particular was horrid.

Right now however, MoI is our number one scum pick and leading the vote count.

We won't be switching.

???

We'd be comfortable with a Kunk lynch if his wagon was viable and Magna's was not. Not sure what you're confused about.

[Trilobite]

Why do we care who might be going murderer again?

I really don't care if there are people on the grave robbing roster that people perceive as being potential murderers, I am mainly concerned with getting people robbing graves that aren't cult.

Also murderers with an insanity of 9 can stalk twice, so having people you suspect are going murderer rob 2 graves seems stupid to me.

[Trilobite]

Also not sure what the ideal grave robbing plan would be but Seacore's proposal seems ok.

[Trilobite]

Someone who wishes to take on the murder action can't win until day 6, and the only way they will win is if they are the only one.

Trying to stop people from becoming murderers isn't something I really consider a priority as people are going to make the decision to become one based on oppurtunity, which no amount of organizing actions is likely to prevent.

[Trilobite]

There actually aren't any murderers yet. In order to become a murderer, one has to kill twice successfully.

Also this quoted from the mod FAQ

"Q: The Murderer Win Condition actually doesn't require everyone else to be dead. What happens when a Murderer fulfils their Win Condition? Does the game continue?
A: Game ends, Murderer wins! Winning as a Murderer takes at least 6 nights worth of effort, and a lot of luck."

It's not 3 nights, it's 6. To get to day 6, we'd have to go through 6 nights, and the mod FAQ even says it would take 6 nights.

[Trilobite]

So, considering your own stated and displayed behavior in regards to votes, your vote of Babyspice sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a major red flag for me. The case isn't a bad one, but your motives look to be suspect to me.

I already explained this once. By the time I had finished those ISO reads I did not feel any of those cases was very strong. But I still wanted to put down a vote, that was the whole point of doing all that, so I thought of Baby Spice as an alternative. I admitted it was tacked on, I did not expect to go there when I started writing that post. The reason I did not describe the case on Baby Spice was simply that I was too tired and needed to sleep. Check the time of that post, and when you consider that I am in Finland, you should see why I was not eager to sacrifice any more sleep than I already had. This does not mean I would not have had a case, I knew it was there, but I was not going to spend another hour or two to reread posts, double check facts, and spell it all out. I did all that later.

Yeah, well I'm not buying it and I explained why, nothing you have said sways me away from my inital gut reaction. This is just me noting that you have my attention.

MoI's claim that he was an easy lynch is just laughable. It's been hard to get this many people on him, easy is not the word I would use at all. The MoI I know wouldn't vote himself as town, he'd fight, with logic, till his last breath. Instead he lurked, didn't really scum hunt (I'll give him his late Plum points) and then gave up. After seeing his “sign off” post I'm even happier with this lynch.

Respect to Iecerint for getting caught up so quick. Impressive. I would like to know about our placement in your town list though. As I was reading your thoughts, I got the impression you found us at least somewhat scummy. Am I missing something?

Wicked's grave rob plan actually looks pretty good. The idea of Feysal and nopointinactingup tagging up is a pretty good one. Unless I am missing something glaringly obvious. I like it.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

This is an acceptable night to use Commune, though it may still be best to save this action for later if you are unsure about your target. If you choose to use it, think carefully about your target and if they may gain an insanity from a pro-town action prior to your Commune resolving. For example, players that need to Launder tonight will gain an insanity before you Commune them, thus making your result unreliable and wasting your equipment. Commune is an effective tool for finding scum, but you must use it correctly or it will add insanities to the town unnecessarily.

You don't gain an insanity from laundering unless you're not bloody when you do it, and I'm not sure why anyone who's not bloody would chose to do so.

[Trilobite]

CD3

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

None

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

No

[Trilobite]

Thirdly, Trilobite is a liar. He needs to claim all insanities and actions or face a lynch.

Vote: Trilobite

Uhh... we don't have any insanities, so I have no idea what you're talking about... and VP apparently communed us to verify as much.

[Trilobite]

CD3

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

None

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

No

We forgot to mention, but we're not bloody.

[Trilobite]

First of all, why did MoI, investigator, have 2 insanties? Was he going murderer?

Same question about why LB and Fate had insanities. But with Fate I can confirm he got occult books, and yet still had an insanity....O.o

I differ with Feysal and say we can't rule out our murderer wannabe/soontobe.

I don't know if I'm missing something, but how could Fate have an insanity and have searched for occult books? Is it possible for cult to pass fetishes on night 0 or something?

[Trilobite]

Vote: El Goosuki

The alternative to just playing horribly and forgetting to submit night actions is that they couldn't rob the graves assigned to them because they were busy doing something else, like participating in the ritual... and something else.

[Trilobite]

Apologies for slacking over the weekend.

Agree 100% with VP's 2870: Why El G

has

to be lynched. I had thought about murdering them, but there is no grantee it will work. They have to swing.

Xvart, how can you make your 2nd night action be confirming that my action defaulted to El Goosuki, and then turn around and stalk me? I wouldn't be surprised if you were the person who stalked Lost Butterfly.

I actually thought that xvart was behind the LB kill until we got MoI's flip. His two instantiates fit the stalk and kill of LB perfectly. However, xvart stalking you after he “cleared” you the night before is just really poor. I like him for a cultist very much right now. Seacore's little paragraph about the game state prior to xvart's stalk is a good point. But xvart already used his night one action to “confirm” furc. The stalk makes zero sense.

I'm lost in the NPAU, Feysal + Wicked thing that is going on. I don't see the slip.

Find myself agreeing with a lot VV here up until the too scummy to be scum deal. El G needs to go today simply because of the WIFOM, Spy probably tomorrow. Spy or xvart anyway. Also think that if Spy is cult, AV is probably town. Their extended exchange doesn't look too much like bussing. But Spy Plum, that's something else.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I'm not trying to defend xvart with the above comment, he's definitely somebody to watch, but I'd like people who are attacking him to attack him using the actual facts.

I get what you're saying even if I don't agree with it. I think the stalk is fake and a good way to hide his involvement in the ritual.

I also don't think furc should be in the official grave rob plan. He has his chance yesterday to win some good faith and he blew it.

Seacore's grave rob plan looks good, my only worry is loading VP and hito up again with more instantiates. I don't have any better ideas at the moment though.

EBWOP: I wouldn't mind Seacore robbing either. I will chat with my other heads and see what ideas they have, if any.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

Posting to say we're fine with grave robbing should we be asked too. I thought we claimed our night zero action already, but we picked up a rez kit for the record. We don't have Occult books, so there is no clash there.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

[quote="Seacore"]Okay, everybody. Whoever is willing to vote El G, please pile on.[quote]

Good god yes please.

[Trilobite]

EBWOP

Okay, everybody. Whoever is willing to vote El G, please pile on.

Good god yes please.

[Trilobite]

CD4

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, we gained twitchy from robbing Furpant's grave

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

[Trilobite]

The only ways I see Furculow getting an insanity last night (provided he was telling the truth yesterday and had zero yesterday) is warding a dead player (wicked would be the only reasonable assumption here, and Furculow said he would ward Iecrint), passed a fetish, crafted three fetishes, robbed a grave (he wasn't assigned to this), or stalked. Or he received a Fetish of himself.

Isn't being killed one of the last actions resolved? If so furc didn't get his insanity from a poss wicked ward. If he is town like most of us think, he probably stalked you. furc having an insanity certainly makes things a little more interesting but I still think he is more likely town. Not happy that you chose to kill him, but it makes you confirmed so there is some benefit. Just wish we could have seen some cult flips before taking vig shots.

I took Solist so that I could search for something else and drop the Occult Books. And with Obsession, I had to get rid of the books. I didn't want to target someone more insane than me (Benmage) just to get rid of the books, so I did it this way.

I don't get it.

You had to commune because of obbession.
You picked VP because you didn't want to target someone who was more insane than you just to get rid of the books?
You then picked solist so you

could

rid yourself of the books?

This whole thing sounds ass backwards to me. You could have at least tried to commune someone suspious looking with the chance of dropping the books that way.

Since xvart is out of the way:

Vote: SpyreX

. I'm going to assume that someone warded ElG's grave, and have faith that BOTH Spy AND Trilo didn't follow the plan on purpose.

Hi. We robbed Furpants like the roster dictated.

Right now our top two suspects are Spy and Andrius. With Andrius we have noitced that he has a knack for being invisible during most of the day until around hammertime. Ontop of that, his explaination for comuning VP is really poor.

Vote: Andrius

Spy has been pretty scummy, his tunneling of AV and basically being in the background all game does stink. Still we can't shake the feeling of a possible set up here and we aren't interested in a quick lynch.

Oj is sort of back in our hydra so we should be back to full strength now.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

These voting strings are ridiculous and distracting. You don't need to vote 10 times to prove you don't have voting insanities.

For instance, we've already proven we don't have sadism because we have voted Andrius. (Who was not at lynch -2 or lynch -1)

And proving we don't have distraction or paranoia is as easy as

Unvote: Vote: Andrius

You don't need to vote around 10 players to do that.

[Trilobite]

Ah, I read distraction wrong, you have to vote someone else, and then you can't revert.

So...

Unvote: Vote: Plum
Unvote: Vote: Andrius

[Trilobite]

@ Trilo

Follow the plan, with the correct people.
And you have not sufficiently been tested. There is a reason we double it up, because doing it once would only get yourself a single infraction, which is dealt with privately. Doing it twice would, potentially, get you modkilled.

VP, if somebody refuses to take part in this test, then I'd rather lynch them than Spyrex, because I believe it is more concrete evidence.

Unvote: Vote: Plum
Unvote: Vote: Andrius

If I was lying about any voting insanities, I would incur a 2nd infraction for any of the three now. (I would have violated sadism twice, distraction twice, and paranoia twice.)

I am doubting that cult actually think they can get away with hiding voting insanities.

[Trilobite]

First off,

Unvote

Secondly, Percy <3

And finally:

Vote: Benmage. Unvote.
Vote: Hito. Unvote.
Vote Benmage. Unvote
Vote: Hito. Unvote

….

Vote: Andrius

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

You had to commune because of obbession.
You picked VP because you didn't want to target someone who was more insane than you just to get rid of the books?
You then picked solist so you could rid yourself of the books?

This whole thing sounds ass backwards to me. You could have at least tried to commune someone suspious looking with the chance of dropping the books that way.

Yeah. I didn't want to waste books on Benmage, just for the sake of getting rid of them. If I'm going to toss them then I could at least provide some more information on a townie-typed person. I just finished a game where the really good player made it to LyLo only to-you guessed it- not actually be town! So I figured I could at least see if he was telling the truth on that front.

Okay... But you're missing the point.

You want to drop the books, taking solist doesn't help you do that because you have

obsession

which means you are locked in a commune cycle UNTIL YOUR BOOKS BREAK. If you

really

wanted to get rid of your books like you claim you would have looked at someone with “more” insanities than you. Your claimed actions don't mesh with your claimed motivations.

Our working theory is that you are using this cycle to rack up a couple of “explained” insanities that could be used to hide your work in the ritual.

Why do you want to get rid of the books?

Did you have even a slight scum read on VP? Why didn't you pick Feysal or Babyspice (both of who don't have any claimed insanities as far as I remember)

So I clarified the Obsession thing with Percy.
I'll be Communing Benmage tonight, because Solist doesn't allow removal of Obsession; I must get the books destroyed, which sets me back even further in time and insanities. But I'll be rid of the vile book (Harry Potter 2, anyone? ) soon enough. Unless you WANT me to sit here and take an insanity a night trying to find people more insane than me.

Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Why did you even think that solist would work like that? It is clear in the opening posts that it wouldn't. This is pure bullshit.

Hito reads my mind regrading the Spy wagon. I'm happy enough to push on Andrius for now, he is a stronger scum read than Spy at this point. We also have no issue with the Spy lynch.

Hito's grave rob plan looks good to me as well.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Okay, so I can see the benefit of lynching SpyreX even if he is an investigator because it sets a precedent whereby cult will be forced to claim their rezzes, and the chances of the person who is ritualised having rezzed somebody who was murdered occurring often down the track is pretty slim (because of course from now on we are going to have to lynch people who are rezzed with no explanation) so unless we are really unlucky it shouldn't harm us too much. Besides, if SpyreX is an investigator he's clearly more worried about trying to guess the scum correctly than defend himself and try to actually be helpful.

Where do you get the idea that the people who are voting for Spy think he is a possible investigator? Not sure I like the tone of this, you seem to be making excuses for something that hasn't happened. The Spy wagon is happening because he was scummy on top of the unclaimed rezz. This is the second time you seem to be simplfying the votes on him.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Vote Andrius

I'd be much happier with this lynch than spyrex.

Excellent, excellent.

TNM; just how little of the game have you read since day one?

[Trilobite]

Trilo, I take it you three believe at least somewhat strongly that SpyreX was rezzed by Furpants? Seacore, the same?

It can't be ruled out, and Furpants isn't around to tell us.

There are other possibilities I'm mulling over that I haven't been able to rule out either.

I do not intend to vote Spyrex on the basis of setup speculation where there exist alternatives to him being cult.

I am happy on the other hand to lynch him on the basis of his play providing he is the scummiest player. I agree he's been scummy, but right now I find Andrius scummier, and I don't find Vas' meta defense moving.

Also VP, what are your thoughts on Andrius?

[Trilobite]

My read of Andrius right now is that of stupid town who doesn't read the rules closely. I agree that he's been in the background like you said, but so have many players and I think that's kind of a null tell since both scum and town may be prone to lurk in this setup. This is why I asked someone who knows him well (and who I consider town) if this was the norm for him, which was confirmed. Why are you dismissive of Vas' meta of him? Seems like you're ignoring evidence to fit your view of the situation. It's either that or 1) you don't trust Vas right now or 2) you don't trust Vas' ability to read Andrius. In either of those cases, I think I would like you to explain why.

What is your assessment of SpyreX's play apart from the rezzing issue? Do you feel he's played a pro-town game?

First off, we're not dismissing anything. Zach said he isn't moved by the meta defense and neither am I. It's been taken under consideration but for now we'd much rather see Andruis engage himself in the game rather than write him off as stupid town AKA a VI. I'm sick of this being the standard response to game mistakes quite honestly. There is a scum motivation to his play.

Right now he is locked in a commune cycle which means he is picking up explained insanities

every night

He wants to drop his books for some unknown reason but didn't want to “waste” them. It's all too convenient for me and I'm not going to stand back and let him get away with it because I think he might be a little stupid when it comes to the set up. If anything I think he is more likely abusing a loop hole to explain away his insanities, AKA pretty damn smart.

I like Vas in this game actually, his word has a little weight, but I do my best scum hunting by questioning and pushing my suspect. Reading what Vas had to say and just going "oh well if

Vas

thinks he's town we must be wrong"... really doesn't vibe for me. I want Andrius to come back and respond to us, I don't see how that is so unreasonable.

As for Spy, we have said a couple of times now I believe, that we have no issue with his lynch and that we think he has been independently scummy outside the no rezz claim. He was a non presence early on in the game. His tunneling on AV was poor and if he is cult, Plum is a likely buddy because their interactions just feel fake to us. At no time have we stated that Spy has played a protown game. At no time have we said we are strongly against the Spy lynch. There are some slight gut rumblings, but nothing to make us want to fight the wagon at all.

We are not against voting for Spy if you need our vote for the lynch, right now however we don't want another quick lynch like yesterday. I see no problems discussing other potential scummy players.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Xvart's list reminds me, what happened to Nico?

[Trilobite]

I actually thought that xvart was behind the LB kill until we got MoI's flip. His two instantiates fit the stalk and kill of LB perfectly. However, xvart stalking you after he “cleared” you the night before is just really poor. I like him for a cultist very much right now. Seacore's little paragraph about the game state prior to xvart's stalk is a good point. But xvart already used his night one action to “confirm” furc. The stalk makes zero sense.

Sotty - after playing in a hydra with me as scum I find it difficult to believe that you really thought I would do something so obviously not subtle as trying to hide an insanity by false claiming a stalk. Can you walk me through your thought process here? Do you really think that as a Cult member I would have not thought through claiming a Stalk as Cult and the ramifications of it not going through?

The beauty of this game is that there is a lot that can happen in the night. I wasn't happy with your choice to stalk furc after you “cleared” him in your own mind. It didn't really fit up for me and made me question your motives. Hydra'ing with you showed me you like to think things though, but if you think there is a soft spot in the town (as scum) you would exploit it. You killing furc obviously dispells all my problems with you now.

Grave rob plan looks fine to me.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Unvote, Vote: Spy

That puts Spy at nine votes. Vote count is on this page even, no excuses.

Would also echo Seacore and Hito by asking Andrius be put on the stalk list please. At absolute best he is a chronic lurker, still think he is likely scum though. Rest of the list looks good.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Some of us are going to have to start diving into forbidden insanities soon, myself included. Hito is right that the first one you take from that list should be hallucination. I would also recommend that suicidal is the LAST thing you should consider taking.

I think you can gain up to 10 insanities and there are 14 selectable by investigators. It would probably be worthwhile with that in mind to select 4 insanities that should NEVER be selected.

Suicidal should definitely be one of them.

[Trilobite]

This is a good night to use

Commune.

However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N4 communes:

My understanding is that commune checks if someone has more insanities than you, which also makes checking someone who's supposed to have the same insanities as you an appropriate choice as well.

[Trilobite]

I think suicidal is absolutely unacceptable to take as an insanity under any circumstances.

In addition to that, I count 3 voting insanities. I am also of the opinion that none of those should ever be taken as an insanity either.

Out of the rest of them, I think any insanities that result in more insanities being taken should be the LAST insanities taken. (There's cult motivation to take necrophelia early for example, as it explains out of control increases.)

I think Obsession should be the second to last insanity taken if you have occult books, or at the very least not taken until you no longer have occult books. (This is why I want to lynch Andrius.)

Necrophelia should be the last insanity taken.

Denial is an insanity that's bad early while you gain insanities, but a great late insanity after you can't take anymore insanities.

We'd like to not have insanities taken that mess with the night actions, but eventually if it comes down to it, I'd rather sacrifice night information vs hindering the town's ability to scumhunt which I think is ultimately more important than any information we can collect during the night.

If we get into endgame and someone is suicidal or can't vote the way they need to because of insanities, winning is going to be very difficult.

I would probably go as far as to say that we need to violently remove anyone from the game who has or claims to have suicidal as an insanity or is proven to have any voting insanity.

[Trilobite]

Ideally, those with suicidal will be dealt with by murderers... but if cult finds it valuble to keep them in the game, (And given that it makes a lylo lynch easier there IS value in it.) they may actively work against that kind of plan.

That's one of my primary concerns with the idea of stalking and murdering undesirable players. I tend to see murdering as something that's ineffective as a cult catching tool early on because of their ability to res, (and currently we don't have any cult flips.) and something that could be more effective later, when they have fewer members able to mess with stalks and murders.

[Trilobite]

CD5

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

No

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Picked up Taboo (books) for Communing

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Taboo

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Yes. We communed Triglav and they are no more insane than us.

Are you bloody?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: Trilobite

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

[Trilobite]

Vote: Baby Spice

[Trilobite]

The thing that's even more amusing than trying to get Benmage modkilled is the fact that she claimed an investigation on xvart.

[Trilobite]

Why are we killing Andrius?

We're not, at least not yet.

But he did just take a banned insanity despite the fact that he doesn't have more than 4 insanities, and then there was the whole shenanigans with the occult books that makes me want him dead SOOOO bad.

But yeah, obv scum lynches first.

[Trilobite]

@Baby Spice: please claim all your night actions.

@Feysal: Why did you commune me?

Methinks that all the people who claimed failed stalks need to stalk again, you know, to prove they actually have the ability to stalk and are not just pretending to have failed.

Do I really need to explain that VP? Seacore and Iecrint could be lying about stalking BS because they already knew hito's stalk on BS failed, and you could be lying about having a failed stalk on Nic. Nothing to worry about if you guys are investigators because all you have to do is stalk again.

It's great when something you say the previous day gets ignored, but then when someone advocates doing the exact same thing after the results being reported as they were... that takes the cake...

Ideally, those with suicidal will be dealt with by murderers... but if cult finds it valuble to keep them in the game, (And given that it makes a lylo lynch easier there IS value in it.) they may actively work against that kind of plan.

That's one of my primary concerns with the idea of stalking and murdering undesirable players. I tend to see murdering as something that's ineffective as a cult catching tool early on because of their ability to res, (and currently we don't have any cult flips.) and something that could be more effective later, when they have fewer members able to mess with stalks and murders.

Of course at that point I wasn't thinking of the possibility of warding but I digress...

Why the hell wouldn't I check Xvart for blood. I'm the one who pointed out that he could currently be a murderer and that he should be forced to launder/grave rob!

DOESN"T ANYONE FIND IT STRANGE THAT AS SOON AS I QUESTION BENMAGE ABOUT AN INSANITY INFRACTION OOH LOOK I"M SCUM FOR BEING WARDED???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

THAT"S WHY I ASKED WHY HE WAITED FOR GODS SAKE.

THE timing screamed suspicious with LOTS OF CAPITAL SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

It's bloody Strangercoug's game all over again.

Xvart defended himself by saying Triglav communed him. This is not correct. Nontheless Andrius claimed an Xvart commune, at a point when he should have only had one insanity. Xvart couldn't have murdered Lost Butterfly unless he had at least 2 insanities at that point in the game.

YOU LOSE.

[Trilobite]

Ojanen here. Flaking as a head of Trilobite and mafia altogether for personal reasons. Take care guys.

[Trilobite]

This is ridiculous.
1. BS getting cultwarded during townie stalk night is a good scum move, regardless of her alignment.

I'm going to poke a hole in this idea and point out that cult warding hypotown baby spice leaves more cult open to being stalked.

[Trilobite]

Hi. I'll catch up tomorrow night, barring circumstances beyond my control.

Feel free to poke me with sharp objects if I don't catch up tomorrow night.

Oh hai lurker.

[Trilobite]

I'll catch up here over the next couple days. I'm done with school, so I have time now.

CD5

Username:

Andrius

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, Hallucination from Commune

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Solist, Obsession, Hallucination (4)

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Commune'd Benmage. Obv. more Insane than me. No more Books.

Are you bloody?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: Andrius

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

So evidentially my Occult Books had special powers... who knew?

/jk

Anyway, I'll be rereading the thread from where I left off earlier sometime soon. Tonight, if I can.
Anything I can do now though, besides for the daily claim?

Hi. I'll catch up tomorrow night, barring circumstances beyond my control.

Feel free to poke me with sharp objects if I don't catch up tomorrow night.

Andrius' last 3 posts, with a grand total of absolutely no content beyond his cd5 claim along with a side of 3 promises to catch up while never actually doing it.

[Trilobite]

Anyway, let's play connect the dots a little bit here.

Benmage

How the hell do you

know

that the cult warded El G's grave when neither of the people actually tasked with robbing it have actually posted yet?

Simply put AV, after El G, and after Benmage's actions yesterday in gun jumping, I want to hear from the people who should have robbed the grave first.

Go read the Benmage post (#3236) this responds to in context. The post was more speculative toward that possibility than it was speaking from a position of knowledge.

But what's more remarkable is that when Andrius posts THIS. (Bolding for emphasis.)

CD4

Username:

Andrius

Did you Hear Noise?

No

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, Solist from my Commune

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy *twitch*, Obsession, Solist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Yes. VPB is no more insane than me.

Are you bloody?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

I'm glad to know xvart is confirmed town in

one

of the games we're in together.
I took Solist so that I could search for something else and drop the Occult Books. And with Obsession, I had to get rid of the books. I didn't want to target someone more insane than me (Benmage) just to get rid of the books, so I did it this way.

Since xvart is out of the way:

Vote: SpyreX

.

I'm going to assume that someone warded ElG's grave

, and have faith that BOTH Spy AND Trilo didn't follow the plan on purpose.

Iecerint not hearing noise means Furc didn't ward him. Probably Res'd or Stalked someone.

I am personally happy that Furcolow's throat was slit overnight. Vengeance is bliss. The fact that he flipped ONE FUCKING INSANITY was a big WTF moment for me. --; I guess I should trust him more often, but hey. I KNOW that Benmage will attempt Murderer. xvart might.

So. Seacore. How do you want to test the voting insanities?

Benmage, would you rather be warded or Resusitated?

With 4 graves to rob tonight we're going to need a massive plan to cover this. And with 19 of us left (after the lynch) things are going to get interesting.

*twitch*

IMO, that's far more likely to be coming from a position of knowledge than Benmage's speculation in #3236. To put the cherry on top of it all, Baby Spice's accusation to Benmage came right after Andrius posted the above. How can something be soooo scummy for one person that it has to be pointed out right away, but when another person does the same thing, you're silent? We've been attacking Andrius, people have been defending Andrius as town, and she's had nothing to say about it. You would think given that he committed the same sin as Benmage that he would be at least worth a mention or that she might wonder why people think Andrius is town, but somehow these tells are only relevant when Benmage is the one committing them. Do you perhaps think that there might be a reason for this outside of her apparently just missing it?

[Trilobite]

Just posting this to let you guys know that Kittymo is now a part of our hydra.

[Trilobite]

CD6

Username:

Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Nope

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Taboo (Commune)

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody? If so, why?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, who, and was it successful?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: Trilobite

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

Nicodemus is clearly the lynch of the day, but I'll withold our vote for now as Seacore asked. We also really want Plum and Andrius to hang too. All three of these players look like cult.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Taboo (Commune)

What did you do last night?

We ressed unsucessfully.

[Trilobite]

Who?

xvart

[Trilobite]

I have no idea what's going on in all this night action directing/massclaiming.

All I got out of the last couple of pages was the fact that Xvart has managed to get away with lying to us for quite some time despite this.

Nicodemus has done nothing but have a convenient explanation for the discrepancy in his insanities and needs to hang post haste.

I do not want to lynch TNM today, and probably not even tomorrow either.

[Trilobite]

TNM, how confident are you that your stalk target is cult?

[Trilobite]

VP, I'm kinda waiting to see where we stand at the end of all the claims. The gambiting you described is probably a low possiblity and as a result if no one else claims a rezz then I think we should lynch Plum. It's just hard to swallow that the same night Nico was passed a feitish was the same night he was communed. I'm not sure I believe in coincidences like that in mafia.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

ben is confirmed because he attempted to kill Spy, right? Is there anything else I am forgetting there?

[Trilobite]

Okay I see. He attempted to kill Spy on the same night Furpants was ritualed. In that case I like kunk's idea for proxying votes to benmage to test suicidal that way. If Percy allows it, it should be quick and easy.

[Trilobite]

@Trilo - If Nico is telling the truth about his rezz, then I don't see a reason to lynch him. Are you implying that the scum are gambiting here, i.e. intentionally used a rez kit on their ritual target so gallow-headed Nico could save himself? I mean, I'll admit that's kind of a genius plan, but how realistic is it?

It's possible they didn't even ritual at all.

Though I forgot he claimed that res...

[Trilobite]

Vas is not the only one with low insanities. Why is he of particular interest?

[Trilobite]

The whole TNM stalk claim isn't as clear as people are trying to insist. From what I have read there is pros and cons to both ways and we have no problem with him claiming his target tomorrow with a hot death. If the fear of him piggie backing another claim is so bad, why no make sure TNM is the FIRST to claim out of all the stalkers?

Also we would like Seacore to follow though with his kill, not Ice. I'll go into more detial on that soon.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I think Benmage should definately NOT tell us who he stalked, and if he is an investigator he should PROVE IT by going ahead with the kill. Firstly, he may have stalked a cultist or the murderer. Secondly, town are (hopefully) going to be rezzing those they believe to be town and in danger anyway.

Thirdly, by BM not telling us who the target is, that forces cult to rez all their members who heard noises tonight if they wanna be completely safe. This consumes both their rez kits and their night actions.

BM: go through with the kill. Don't tell us your target.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

I'm not sure about El Goosuki, it's just as ridiculous for me that cult would claim that as a night action and put themselves out there like that.

Vote: Kunkstar

He has been going with the voting flow the entire game, plus I think he was trying to score town points with the BM issue while trying to get BM to reveal his target to benefit cult.

The guy is consistent at least. This claim or die stuff is starting to get really old. Can't we all just agree to lynch Plum?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Trilo, I would like to hear more about why it should be me, I felt that AV made a compelling argument

Benmage, I'd like you to weigh in on this too, probably after Trilo

It will take a little while for me to compile what I need to for explanation wise. I'm in the process of re-reading important parts of the game but I hope to have something tonight or tomorrow morning at least.

We have a theory that involves scum hunting with a dash of set up speculation. Not the other way round.

Ben, the point is, you can argue it either way. This claim or die stuff is BS and I'm not going to sit back and let him get railed while we get side tracked over this. It's one big diversion if you ask me. If you feel so strongly about it, put him on the stalk list. That at least gives him the night to confirm himself and if it doesn't work he gets lynched or murdered.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

(Okay this case has been broken up into several smaller posts. Mostly because of site limits also to make it easier to read and process. There is a lot of information contained in the next five posts. Needless to say this a wall of words warning. We have a lot to say, grab a coffee and settle in.)

Okay, set up spec is fun and all, but how about we take a look back over what has already happened and try and do a little old fashioned scum hunting. The following is a theory that started off as a what felt like extreme paranoia at the time but the more reading back I do, the more scummy a so called confirmed town looks.

Seacore, come on down. We're talking about you!

Here's the break down of where we are at.

So far we have lynched two cult, Baby Spice and Spyrex. On each lynch we assigned grave robbers like we have to every body we have gotten so far. Both Spy and BS flipped with no troubles. The cult weren't bothered about warding these bodies for whatever reason.

On night three we had two bodies to deal with: Furpants_Tom and El G. However only one of these bodies did actually flip. Spy, our now confirmed cult, was assigned to rob both graves.

Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?

The final graverobbing targets are these.

Grave Robbers

Furpants: Spyrex, Trilobite
El_G: Spyrex, Seacore

Looking at this again I think it is safe to assume that Spy decided not to rob either body. He was more than likely off doing his evil cult business. So that got us wondering what exactly Seacore was up too.

How likely is that cult would have warded El G, a townie, when they already had one of their own slated to grave rob them?

To put it another way. Why would cult decide to waste a costly action (ward) rather than a free action (grave rob)? Why block El G at all like this? It doesn't add up.

We now know both of these players that were supposed to flip this night were town. But at the time we were told/lead to believe/thought cult warded El G to promote further confusion in the town. But did it really do that? If anything it simply was used by Spy to attempt to further delay his lynch.

To us, it looks like cult benefit a lot here from simply choosing

not

to grave rob at all. But for this to work, Seacore has to be cult. He couldn't have been warded, he simply would have chosen to do “something else”

This makes sense when you look at the lack of wards for Spy and Baby Spice, Spy in particular. When he was lynched he flipped with the exact amount of insanities that he had claimed in thread. If cult REALLY wanted to confuse the town, Spy's body was the perfect ward target.

And yet he flipped without a hitch. So why ward El G? What did it really achieve?

[Trilobite]

Seacore and the grave rob plan of day two

With this thought we took another look surrounding the planning of the grave rob plan for night two. Remember, there was a dust up between Furpants, Vas and Seacore at the end of this day over a so called “switching of the plan.”

Read from here to post 2738 were Furpants stops fighting to assure a plan gets approved with no confusion.
I've just spent the last couple of hours re-reading day two and seeing how the grave rob plan was built from the ground up. Needless to say there are a couple of things to note.

1] The original plan involved Baby Spice double robbing. Seacore removed her from this.

The first incarnation of the grave rob plan comes from VP

OK, well if we have Furc rob RC alone, that will essentially lessen the cost of robbing.

I'd be for dispatching both probably then. We then have three bodies to deal with and we have three chosen ones cross rob to clean up those bodies and prevent cult madness.

So for example:

RC = Furc
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Baby Spice, Wraith
Lynchee = Wraith, VP

or whatevs. We can't have unflipped bodies toward endgame, even if it is 99% likely Fate is town. WIFOM would make knowing when lylo is going to occur very difficult.

He puts Baby down for double duty basically because she is high on his scum list. He also spends a lot of effort (grave rob plan wise) trying to make sure Baby robs twice. This strengthens my town read on him for obvious reasons (and some others that I will detail later in this post.)

Anyway, after this we have several posts about the grave rob plan.

Wicked's plan
VP's counter
Wicked's counter
More VP pushing double BS rob

VP and Wicked are the only ones actively making robbing plans at this point. Then Seacore weighs in.

Seacore's thoughts about graverobbing

Corpse dust

: I may be unpopular for saying this, but I don't think it's a big deal. For it to be a factor, we need to have somebody rez the ritual victim, and not two people rezzing the ritual victim. Or alternatively, 2 people and not 3 people. Also, a murderer needs to not attack that person, or whatever.
Do cultist want corpse dust? Of course.
Do we want to stop them from getting it? Of course.
Is it the end of the world if they do get it? No.

With that premise, I don't think we need to double up as much.

Wicked

: I think Wicked should grave rob twice, and I don't think Wicked needs to be backed up by anybody else, since he's the least likely to be cult.

@ Wicked, do you agree to this?

Furc

Furc should double grave rob. I'd be happier with Furc being backed up though.

@ Furc, do you agree to this?

Benmage

Benmage should single grave rob, I'd love him to double rob, but he's not going to agree to that.

@ Benmage, do you agree to this?

Somebody else

I'd pick someone I find scummy to do the last one, forcing them to gain an insanity point and making it harder to hide others. However, it seems most people don't find my scum list that scummy. Would people agree to making ElG do it?

So it would work something like this

Potential Graverob Roster

Fate - Wicked
RC - Wicked
LB - Furc and Benmage
Today's lynch - Furc and X

Thoughts?

No mention of Baby, which I guess isn't such a big deal really. He suggests a minimal approach to grave robbing that pretty much gets shot down. A few posts after this he takes VP's list and starts to run with it.

Official Graverob Roster V.1

RC = Furc, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Wicked, Baby Spice
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

Please state whether you agree with this roster.

Furc, VP, BS, Wicked and Hito, please publicly agree to this roster.
MoI, Kunk and ElG, please also publicly agree to this roster, to state that you'll perform the 2nd Wagonee role should it apply to you.

Furpants is actually the first to suggest using the 2nd and 3rd wagonees as grave robbers. He also questions the use of Baby as a double robber that VP responds to. It simply comes down to him finding her really scummy, which is fair enough. After a little more discussion, Seacore is back with the “official plan”

[Trilobite]

Okay, so,

Final Grave Rob Roster V2

RC = VP, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = Benmage, 3rd Wagonee
LB = Wicked, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

I've given in to Benmage's request to lynch Fate, I personally don't see the harm in letting him choose, particularly since he doesn't know who his robbing partner will be at this point.

If we decide not to dispatch fate, or can't swing the dispatch votes in time, then lets just have

RC = VP, 2nd Wagonee
LB = Wicked, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

It doesn't block out the 3rd wagonee, but it still up's their insanity count in an auditable way.

Seacore continues to push the plan getting people to approve publicly which really isn't any kinda of tell either way. It's null.

During this time Wicked continues to make suggestions that few people like or follow because he seems to focus on stopping murderers. However VP and Seacore point out his flaws and continue with the official plan.

Post explosion. I've only skimmed all the stuff, but I want to read Iec's posts indepth before the day is out. Also, since we're getting toward deadline I still recommend following the latest version of the Seacore graverob plan. Right now shooting for murderers with grave robs is kind of a shot in the dark. After a night of using equipment to narrow down the potential suspects, we will be in a much better position to specifically target suspect players. Meanwhile, we have kunkstar, Baby Spice and El G who are considered reasonably scummy and have a chance of being cult. Putting them on grave robbing is only beneficial to us if it is true they are cult because it limits their ability to ritual and gives them insanities. On top of that, I don't trust Furc to rob even if assigned. He's changed his mind again since he said he would, so that should be evidence enough not to put him in a key position.

Keep in mind, at this point Seacore's grave rob plan is the one I quoted in post 2399. No names have been subbed in. Next thing we know:

Okay everybody

Vote A -
RC = VP, Kunk
Fate = Benmage, El G
LB = Wicked, El G
MoI = Hito, Kunk

or

Vote B
ReaperCharlie - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Fate - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Lost Butterfly - Wickedestjr and Andrius
MoI - Wickedestjr and Andrius

This is the last official vote count before Seacore's post:

Vote Count

*whisper whisper*

MagnaofIllusion - 10

(Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi,

Furcolow,

Plum, El Goosuki, Baby Spice, AurorusVox, MagnaofIllusion)

kunkstar7 - 5

(totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus,

Iecerint

)

Baby Spice - 5

(Triglav, Feysal, Seacore, Furcolow, xvart)

El Goosuki - 3

(SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith,

xvart

)

xvart - 1

(Andrius)

hitogoroshi - 1

(Iecerint)

Nicodemus - 0

(El Goosuki)

Wraith - 0

(AurorusVox)

VasudeVa - 0

(MagnaofIllusion)

Not Voting - 0 (

Baby Spice

)

And this is the vote count

after

Seacore slipping El G's name on the grave rob list (final count):

Vote Count

*whisper whisper*

MagnaofIllusion - 13

(Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage,

VasudeVa,

hitogoroshi, Plum, El Goosuki, Baby Spice, AurorusVox, MagnaofIllusion, SpyreX, Iecerint, Andrius, Furcolow)

kunkstar7 - 5

(totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)

Baby Spice - 4

(Triglav, Feysal, Seacore,

Furcolow,

xvart)

El Goosuki - 2

(

SpyreX,

kunkstar7, Wraith)

xvart - 0

(Andrius)

hitogoroshi -

(Iecerint)

Not Voting (1) – (VasudeVa)

On both of these vote counts, Baby Spice is above El G.
El G was not the 2nd or 3rd wagon at the point of Seacore slipping names into the count.

[Trilobite]

2] Seacore incorrectly states that Fur voted for El G and Kunk

When Furpants realizes what Seacore has pulled he starts to protest. Seacore responds with this gem:

No it's not. You voted Vote A! You agreed to El G and Kunk!

This is untrue. Furpants voted for the 2nd and 3rd wagon plan. Pretty sure Seacore knew this.

3] Seacore incorrectly states that EL G and Kunk were wagon two and three when he subbed names in. He also states that El G only dropped because people voted for the MoI lynch. This is also not true.

I changed it before people noticed? How, when I specifically stated it and got people to vote and I last minute changing it?

Somebody said, that as we approached deadline we should substitute names in. As soon as it became clear it was MoI for the lynch, I added in who was 2nd and 3rd wagon.
El G only stopped being 3rd wagon because people jumped off to get MoI because of the deadline anyway.

This sounds good, but is not the truth. As proven above by the timing of Seacore putting names in the plan as well as the vote counts, the grave robbers should have been Kunk and Baby Spice.

Also untrue is his claim the votes fell off El G to jump on MoI. Three people unvoted El G, two of which jumped onto Baby Spice, only furc voted for MoI and of course he was the hammer. So this happened waaaaaaaaaaay before Seacore manipulated the grave rob plan.

11th vote count of day two

MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)
kunkstar7 - 6 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus, manho)
El Goosuki - 5 (Seacore, SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith, xvart)
Baby Spice - 2 (Triglav, Feysal)

12th vote count of day two

MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)
kunkstar7 - 6 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus, manho)
El Goosuki - 4 (SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith, xvart)
Baby Spice - 3 (Triglav, Feysal, Seacore)

13th voth count of day two

MagnaofIllusion - 10 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Plum, El Goosuki, Baby Spice, AurorusVox, MagnaofIllusion)
kunkstar7 - 5 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)
Baby Spice - 5 (Triglav, Feysal, Seacore, Furcolow, xvart)
El Goosuki - 3 (SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith)

xvart switches from El G to Baby spice
furc switches from El G to MoI to hammer

and most importantly, Seacore switches from El G to Baby Spice.

Seacore contradicts his own reasoning for placing El G on the grave rob list instead of Baby by unvoting El G and voting Baby in game.

El G only stopped being 3rd wagon because people jumped off to get MoI because of the deadline anyway.

This is a pretty big freaking deal if you ask me. Simply because he can't have made a mistake with this, as he was one of the vote jumpers! Seacore switched his vote over to Baby Spice here:

Feysal makes a very good case.
It appears that El G is not going to be today's lynch, people are willing to wait to see if they continue to be scummy.

I do not like the kunk or the MoI wagons, although I'd settle for kunk in a pinch.

None of my other suspects have a chance at being lynched.

I'm joining this wagon

Unvote. Vote: BS

@kunk. more insanity points = more insanities, = more ways of catching scum out. I'd rather force that scummy person to take on another insanity.

When Seacore unvoted he put Baby Spice on three votes and moved El G down to four. Kunk had actually gone up from five to six. Therefore, Seacore pretty much made a move that wreaked the El G wagon and strengthed the Baby Spice wagon and yet

still

wanted to claim that El was the more suspicious and should have taken a place in the grave rob plan.

This is simply untrue as proven by Seacore's own actions. If he wanted El G on the grave rob plan why was he voting for Baby Spice?

The breakdown

• Baby Spice was initially slated to double rob. This was thrown out and a system for the 2nd and 3rd biggest wagons to rob instead.
  
• Seacore took it upon himself to become the official grave rob pusher.
  
• Towards the end of the day Seacore went against the plan and subbed in El G to rob, instead of Baby Spice who was the 3rd wagon.
  
• Furpants + Vas calls him out on this but they both get shouted down by Seacore inisting this was how they voted and other excuses. This has been proven untrue.

All this makes Seacore look bad because we now know Baby Spice was cult. Not only that, but she was cult lying about her insanity count. The clear conclusion that can been drawn from this is that the cult team realized that Baby Spice wasn't going to win the game for them. With that in mind she was probably doing a lot of their dirty work, more than likely crafting shit tons of fetishes pulling insanities every night. It was only a matter of time before she was caught out, so the cult decided she would be their work horse. She took one for the team and tried to carry as much of the burden as possible before she was lynched or killed.

The last thing the cult would want is to have their work horse saddled with double robbing duty so early. They need her out there doing baaaaaad things.

Our conclusion is cult manipulated the grave rob plan to free Baby up for another night: Therefore, Seacore is cult.

Also note, Furpants, the loudest protester over the switch was killed over night. Never to be heard from again.

[Trilobite]

Day three: The build up to the El G and Furpants grave rob

Sadly, I nominated Seacore as a grave robber on day three. Regretting that now. Seacore however, nominates Spy for the double rob.

Vote El Goosuki

I'm back. I'm going to have a longer v/la coming up later this week thanks to a funeral and another in laws trip. But I'll be around for a bit before that.

I think Tom targetting Spyrex is a huge possibility. Perhaps, if the two late claimers don't claim to have used kits of Spyrex, we can use him for grave robbing? Would that appease those who have jumped on him?

But El Goosuki has got to go.

If El Goosuki has indeed taken Suicidal, only 11 are needed for the lynch, not 12... we should attempt to actively remember that, for purposes of preventing early hammers. I'd specifically direct that at Furc, but it's a waste of breath.

There is little in the way of open manipulation to this plan that I can see. Seacore does get overly excited about the grave rob plan and talks about it a lot. He also starts to make noise about people not following the plan should be lynched. Mostly because El G didn't grave robbed as “assigned” the night before.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2649959
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2647937
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2647481

Day four: Seacore and the amazing voting insanities

CD4

Username:

Seacore

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, robbing El G, and Solist

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Solist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Yep, Plum isn't bloody

Are you bloody?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

I'm okay with the Spyrex lynch. I feel the same way about him as I felt about MoI, and given that I was wrong there I'm happy to be overruled by players I've come to trust. Let's discuss the graverob.

I'm dissapointed that people have jumped onto spyrex, as this will make it difficult to start testing insanities. I think I'd like to see us organise a test for sadism at least.

No mention of the failed rob, just a crusade on about voting insanities.
No mention of holding players accountable to the “plan”

Nothing.

TL;DR: Why Seacore should kill tonight

• Seacore was responsible for confirmed cult Baby Spice not double robbing on night two.
  
• Furpants busted Seacore's attempt to shift Baby Spice out of robbing. He dies that night.
  
• Seacore was responsible for grave robbing El G and failed.
  
• Scum didn't bother to ward any of the confirmed scum lynches we have had so far. Why would they ward town El G?
  
• Seacore is linked to both our confirmed cult

That's about as simple as I can make it. I know this is a lot to read and process all at once, but I would really like to lynch Seacore today. Like really bad. However, I understand not a lot of others would be interested in that. I contend that with all this evidence, Seacore simply MUST go though with his stalk tonight. He is nowhere near to confirmed as he would like us all to believe.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Currently Zachrulez, Sotty7, and KittyMo

[Trilobite]

N0: Search Res kit
N1: Res Hito
N2: Res Hito
N3: Robbed Furpants, search occult books (took twitchy)
N4: Commune Triglav (took taboo, used on books)
N5: Res Xvart

Rest later

- Teh Z

[Trilobite]

Trilo: dyu think Seacore was risking that I would get stalked by someone else?

Perhaps. It's also possible he just claimed you because they fetished you last night and knew you had noise.

Why did spyrex scum and seacore scum not want an easy dust?

Why was there no kill last night?

They could have already have some dust or where hoping the apparent on "ward" on El G caused enough confusion to save Spy. Maybe a combo of both

The kill is a more tin hat kinda theory. To put it bluntly, we don't believe in the combination of Nico successfully rezzing Seacore AND being passed a fetish AND being communed all in one night.

It's possible this is a set up to save Nico with a so called rezz on a so called protown.

Of course all this can be disproved by Searcore killing tonight. He must kill if we don't lynch him. He's dirty enough to make us want to question him and killing is the only way he is PROVEN town. End of story.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Well yesterday (real world time) is when we started to look into it. Zach was bothered by the non flip of El G and started looking back. He came to me with the idea that Seacore could be scum because why would El G be warded and no other bodies.

I then remembered the whole botched grave plan and started to look back and saw Seacore was slap bang in the middle of all that.

When I made my post yesterday that said we wanted Seacore to kill was when I started up my reading of day two. I spent the rest of the night and this morning reading and making up that case with input from Zach all the way.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

re:Seacore - I'm not necessarily sold on it. Trilo makes some interesting points, but I need to have some time to go back and fact check everything for myself to see if I have the same interpretations. I'm mostly bothered by the Ritual business though. Unless Nico and Seacore are scumbuddies, it seems a little far fetched.

You seem to be hung up on the ritual thing. I think it's the presumption that cult will attempt ritual 100% of the time. Is it really far fetched that the cult might have gambited in this situation to try to give the town every reason not to lynch Nico today? Consider that we've been trying to engineer multiple stalks and murders in the meantime.

[Trilobite]

Some questions:
N2 - Did furpants have any equipment?
N2 - Did Trilobyte have Solist?

1. We didn't gain any equipment from robbing Furpants.

2. We don't have solist.

[Trilobite]

idk, I guess I just have a very straight forward mentality when I play as scum. More people dying = better. I'm not saying it's impossible though. If they really wanted to save Nico, particularly after bleeding Spyrex and BS, it would have been a good move. The question is if Nico would be THAT worth saving. Maybe his contributions in the Scum QT have been greater than this thread.

I think it's pretty easy to deflect a lynch off of a chronic lurker if you can come up with a good reason to do so. People have a tendency to want to lynch someone who's talked themselves into a hole far more than someone who's not talking. (Case in point, Baby Spice.) For that reason, I can see value in trying to get hypocult Nico deeper into the game.

[Trilobite]

The simple answer is usually the correct answer.

How would cult know nico was being communed? His reasoning for suspicion is only due to him lurking, something easily reversible. He asked the town if it was in the towns best interest for him to replace out. If I was scum and a scum buddy was barely able to keep up and going to be lynched on that basis alone I'd tell them to replace out.

How does that factor into it? Nico was communed and found with more insanities than expected, and explained it by saying he was passed a fetish. Frankly, Nico's pretty much the winner of the fucking lottery for all that to have actually happened.

[Trilobite]

It was believed that Spy was rezzed by Furpants the night he died because no one else claimed that rezz. That would mean his kit would have broken and he wouldn't have anything. But yeah more speculation invoving a confirmed cult so who knows.

The truth of the matter is we have laid out a pretty good scum narrative for Seacore. This game allows us to actually confirm him if he follows his AV stalk though. I understand this game is complex in it's nature, but I'm a scum hunter. If someone's actions don't add up they need pressure. I get that we have to work together as a town to try and mange the game as best as we can, but sometimes all the set up speculation takes away from the actual art of hunting scum.

If he kills AV over night then I'll happily turn attention elsewhere, but to constantly find excuses as to why a scummy player can't be scum isn't something I will swallow.

Maybe I am just extra grouchy now I found out that VP was TNM stalk target. He is my only rock solid, I'll-throw-myself-off-a-cliff-if-he-is-cult, town read.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

A cult Rezz works too. Not sure how I over looked that.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

Wouldn't scum have claimed that Rezz for town cred though?

In this game there seems to be a loop hole for everything. Looking strictly at Seacore's actions around Baby Spice and the grave rob plan, he still looks like cult to us.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

I tend to think cult would have claimed a sucessful res.

If cult wasn't the resser than the would know Furpants was, and the grave rob happened the night after... so...

[Trilobite]

Vote: Plum

If Seacore can be proven by making a kill tonight, so can TNM. The exact same logic applies. Also cult won't be able to set both Seacore and TNM up at the same time. If both players are town I like the odds of actually getting a solid confirm on at least one.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

I've been liking Trilo most of this game but I've been thinking about it and their recent posts feel slimy to me. So we have VPB, the town read Trilo would jump off a cliff for, and TNM, who allegedly stalked him for some garbage reason. Trilo hasn't said anything about this, except that scum can't "set both up at the same time."

We have said little because I spend hours on all those Seacore posts. They took forever. When TNM announced a stalk on someone he thought wouldn't fail, I thought he might have stalked us. We have unexplained noise from last night, were on the stalk list while considered to be pretty town.

Since then I have said his stalk claim of VP has made me unhappy, but that we clearly think he must go though it ala Seacore. What more do you want in the way of comments?

We are not willing to trade VP, he should be rezzed. That is pretty obvious seeing as we have a rezz kit. If VP is ritualized, TNM dies. If AV is ritualized, Seacore dies.

You're forgetting about the Andrius kill, assuming you're taking the position of "more than one planned murder makes it impossible for cult to screw with them all." And anyway...

I haven't forgotten about the Andrius kill. I just don't think VP needs that kill to prove he is town.

I can see your paranoia but we have been clear all along in wanting TNM to kill to clear himself. Don't think I wasn't tempted to say “fuck it” when he came out it was VP, but he has to kill. It's that simple. Just like Seacore has to kill.

I have had VP has a town read ever since he has been caught up. His commune of this slot in paraticular made me a believer. Then I re-read day two and he kept banging on about Baby Spice double robbing. VP doesn't need a kill to prove he is town to me, I'm already 99% clear he is there.

On the other hand Seacore is dirty from day two and the failed El G grave rob. TNM is dirty from mostly his lurking and now his poor stalk target choice.

Looks pretty clear to me.

AV, I don't think VP should be rezzing tonight period. It has also been noted how you swing from case to case as they are posted. Don't you have a real opinion of your own?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I forgot to mention that I would prefer Hito to kill Andrius over VP at this point.

[Trilobite]

I think more than one person will rezz VP. I also think that cult probably won't want to forfeit another kill (if they did last night) and will ritual someone out of this murder rezz loop. But that's just my conjecture I guess. If the set up Gods insist that we can't rezz VP then I guess so be it. What I am seeing a lot of in this game is being scared of night, we are trying to control every last little thing and it is just impossible. The mods made this set up so well that there is a counter argument to everything.

I was tempted to say lets lynch TNM, but I realized that if he had claimed a stalk on practically anyone else I would have said “go though with it” As much as I love VP he can't be a special case.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Okay wait, can you explain that to me?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

This game...

Well, I'm going to chew on what AV posted and talk it over with Zach. The same logic that is in post 4230 can be applied to all the attempted murders we're planning tonight right, or am I missing something? I can see why the TNM lynch looks good when you combine it with his overall play + the VP stalk. He is the scummiest would-be-murder we got.

But yeah... Going to think this over, will be back later.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Thinking about things a little bit. Vox's logic about ressing VP seems sound, but I don't think it necissarily saves VP's life. Mulling over the idea that the only chance to save VP is to actually lynch TNM...

[Trilobite]

Kunk voting TNM

really

makes me want to lynch someone else.

Let's do that.

[Trilobite]

Has no one stalked Plum or Kunkstar?

I think there's probable cult there.

[Trilobite]

Our list:

Plum
kunk
Seacore
Nico
Andrius/Triglav

I haven't read the last page or so and I'm tired now so I'll do that later.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I am receptive to Plumscum arguments that go beyond "I feel it in my gut" tho.

How about the fact she has all but given up posting in this game while actively posts elsewhere? I have seen Plumscum give up in this manner before.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Was Plum this lurky in Greek Mythology then? I'm lost on how it applies otherwise.

(Also <3 Vi)

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Yeah, he posted something silly about a football game or something in one of Vi's other games I was playing in. Really,

really

, stupid.

So you're basically saying we need to kill Plum with fire? You should vote her then.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

At the risk of opening a can of worms here... But why? You agree Plum is lurky here and has a history of being a scum lurker at that. You are more than likely going to die tonight and you want to go out as sheep?

Have you posted your top five cult list yet? I don't see it on a quick skim of your ISO. You should do that.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

Trilo, we'll kill Plum when we're ready, but as usual we want to get the night's actions organised.

Yeah I understand that. I'm not asking for a power wagon or anything. This is just between me and Andrius. I'm poking him to see what happens. I thought that was pretty clear. The whole "lets sort the night out" shouldn't come before scum hunting. And yes I am aware Andy is slated to die tonight.

Thanks for the list Andy. So you think cult rezzed townSeacore?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I'm pretty sure Seacore's draft stalk list is of people that should be stalked, not stalkers themselves.

Unless of course, I am reading it wrong

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Clearly this game is making me lose my mind.

Carry on.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Trilo definitely isn't obvscum, but I'm still heavily suspicious. Particularly with his posting today, he seemed really resistant to what I saw as some obvious conclusions.

Hi. Elaboration please.

[Trilobite]

That quote was

1. As vague of an accusation as one could possibly make.

2. Made in the face of agreeing with pretty much everything we said anyway.

[Trilobite]

RE: IecScum = Triloscum

The thinking goes that TriloScum would push SeacoreTown to murder me instead of IecScum, because otherwise he would have been outed.

The problem is that is very simplified thinking that deals in absolutes that don't exist, but have it whatever way you want.

[Trilobite]

Acceptable Resuscitation Targets

hitogoroshi
Iecerint
Seacore
Trilobite
VasudeVa
Wraith

Um... Wraith's dead. I don't think we want to be ressing him.

[Trilobite]

And also according to the same guide we shouldn't be on the res list either.

[Trilobite]

Also, I can't help feeling this list is rather short, particularly when you exclude Benmage and xvart. The cult is certain to want Benmage in endgame due to his Suicidal insanity (and even more so if my doubt about him being cult proves true). xvart they will want alive at least for one more night, so we'd have to lynch him if we wanted to be sure he could not win as murderer. That is two who are very likely to be warded, leaving only three, or four if Nicodemus is included.

Remember, cult lose to potential murderers every bit as much as investigators do.

[Trilobite]

CD7

Username:Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise? Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who? No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No

List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Taboo

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who? No

Were you murdered? No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No

Are you bloody? No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful? No

Twitch? *Twitch*

Vote: Trilobite

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

Apologies to Seacore who is now confirmed. We saw something that obviously wasn't there.

Logically Andrius makes sense as the lynch... HOWEVER, VP still lives and I believe he has a stalk on Andrius, so Totallynotmafia might actually be the play for today.

In total agreement with Seacore on the matter of testing for suicidal. We definitely need to do that today. There's a very good chance cult have taken it as an insanity and we need to make them pay for it.

[Trilobite]

Wait... unless our thinking is wrong. Andrius is confirmed scum.

[Trilobite]

He's supposed to have a res kit and he was supposed to use it on Hito. The only way Hito's murder on him would have possibly failed was if Andrius was sucessfully ressed, which would be impossible if he had ressed like he was supposed to.

[Trilobite]

Duh gosh.

Yeah, you're probably cult too. Your posts have a gloating tone to them.

[Trilobite]

Regardless of Andrius' confirmed scum status. No quick ending to the day. No accidental hammering. None of that crap. Don't think we won't punish you for it.

[Trilobite]

We rezzed Vas.

Needless to say, "people who think I am scum are dumb" doesn't work for me as a reason not to suspect Iec. But lets see what else gets reported this morning, we have a prelim list of who our top cult suspects are right now. Reading needs to be done to sort them out however.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

Res Kit Side effects. (Direct Quote)

Side Effects: Your target hears Noise. Any Resuscitate action targeting you tonight will fail, and the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure. If you successfully protect them, you become Bloody, and your target both becomes Bloody and gains an Insanity when the killing action (Murder or the Ritual) resolves.

The res target gains insanity, not you. Nice try.

[Trilobite]

Xvart, why are you stalking?

[Trilobite]

Did a ward on Benmage ever get claimed yesterday?

[Trilobite]

I just looked back. VP claimed a failed stalk on Nico on day 5.

The issue I have is that a "sucessful res" can't actually be confirmed. (As in how do we know cult didn't set up a ritual and have hypo cult Nico "res" it for town cred?)

The thing about it is that regarding Nico, the res is really the only argument for not lynching him.

And even so, I tend to think cult are FAR more likely to ward their own from stalks than others. (Granted a lot of it depends on how much danger cult are in of actually being stalked.)

[Trilobite]

As far as I know, the only two people who are actually confirmed are Seacore and Xvart. That's it.

[Trilobite]

Also I think open stalk lists are the reason we're in this WIFOM bucket.

[Trilobite]

I'm a bit concerned about someone trying to slip in an "accidental hammer. Hito's plan to counter that seemed OK, but as an alternative to it, I propose we establish a voting order for each player. Basically a list of players to vote said player we want to test up to lynch -1 with the understanding that you DON'T VOTE OUT OF TURN. This method should make it obvious that anyone who actually drops a hammer is not town.

Also the player placing the lynch -1 vote would do so and then unvote in the next post immediately thereafter.

Basically any one person can post an order and we simply follow the first order posted.

[Trilobite]

Though given that Andrius could openly try to mess with any plans to test suicidal, we should probably lynch him today and test tomorrow.

Thoughts?

[Trilobite]

So we're lynching Andrius, that much is clear. Lets sort out who is grave robbing and junk and get this show on the road.

~Sotty.

[Trilobite]

Couple of things:

1. I want Kunkstar to double rob with xvart.
2. TNM SHOULD NOT STALK. Psychopathy is gained after the 2nd murder attempt NOT the 2nd successful murder. (This is of course presuming he's town.)
3. We already have a res kit. The only practical thing for us to search for is a forensic kit.

[Trilobite]

Tomorrow I will be an absolute ogre about checking the voting insanities.
The three insanities we check in our daily CD posts MUST be done correctly. None of this copy from the last person bullshit that's been happening.
You vote for yourself first. Then benmage, then xvart, then benmage, then xvart. I've noticed a couple of people voting for somebody else first, which circumvents the Paranoid checking. So, if I catch you doing it Day 8, I'm going to be a dick about it. If I die, somebody else had best be a dick about it in my place.

Who's been doing this?

[Trilobite]

My desire to have Kunkstar rob stems from preventing him from being able to ward without being outted if he's cult.

[Trilobite]

Oh yeah, soilist messes with that idea.

We would need a robber that doesn't have soilist.

[Trilobite]

The fact that nacho is actually scum hunting in this game wins him a lot of points with me. If he was scum, he would post to lets us know he was here but he would also cost like a lot of players already are. This game puts way too much weight on planning night actions and actively discourages scum hunting, at least in my opinion.

I don't agree with wagon analysis however. You can draw any conclusion you like from it really, but at least he is putting out his thoughts and making connections. He's wrong about us, but that's not really something I am about to get all annoyed about. He's putting out the effort which is important.

I have noticed a couple of players seemingly suggesting we are cult with little to no actual reasoning. benmage put us on the stalk list a few nights back and that seemed to open us up to this little jabs from people.

I have waited for someone to provide some thought about the likely hood of us being cult but it hasn't really came. Seacore even said today we could do with some killing but he can't seem to explain why.

I'd like to bring up these two posts. We were the people that busted Andrius in the first place. I caught onto his lame plan to hide instantiates and pushed him on it. The main reason Andrius was on the stalk list and got caught out was because we started the case on him.

The same day these two posts were made, Spy was being run up, a confirmed cult. If we are cult with him that means we tried to deflect from the Spy wagon to the Andrius wagon another one of our buddies. It also means when we could have gotten towncred for bussing Spy (who was going down no matter what) we chose instead to expose Andrius and his commune plan which has lead to him being outed scum.

Now normally I'm not one to throw “townie” things I have done out there, (WIFOM etc) but with this game I feel like if I don't bring it up no one will. Very few people are reading back and scum hunting, we're all sat around content to plan for night. This plays into the cults hands. We still need to scum hunt. Yeah we were wrong with our epic Seacore case, but were right about Andrius. We all need to pick this up tomorrow. There is still four cult hiding somewhere, combing scum hunting with planning night actions is what will win us the game.

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

El Goosuki - 12

(

Wraith

, Trilobite,

SpyreX

,

hitorogoshi

,

Baby Spice

, kunkstar7,

Seacore

,

AurorusVox

, VP Baltar, Feysal,

Plum

,

SUICIDAL

)

SpyreX - 3

(

Benmage

, VasudeVa,

Andrius

)

Nicodemus - 2

(

Furcolow

,

El Goosuki

)

Benmage - 1

(

totallynotmafia

)

Feysal - 1

(nopointinactingup)

kunkstar7 - 1

(

Wickedestjr

)

Not Voting (4) - (Iecerint, Nicodemus, Triglav,

xvart

)

With 23 alive, 12 votes secures a Lynch.

I'm betting 3 more scum on the Goosuki wagon, probably Trilo, kunk, and Feyesal.
VV is town as hell based on this votecount alone.
Nico is way more probscum than Triglav.

I absolutely agree that El G was an extremely oppurtunistic wagon. If we cleaned up that wagon I think we'd be in good shape.

-Zach

[Trilobite]

Also after thinking things over a little bit more I have decided that Kunk double rob won't work for various reasons, and I'm ok with Seacore's proposed rob list.

With that said I'm happy to

Vote: Andrius

[Trilobite]

Also, are we mass claiming last night actions today? I think there are a few players who haven't claimed what they did last night unless I missed it (benmage, kunk, nico, VP)

[Trilobite]

NO.

FOLLOW SEACORE'S GRAVEROB PLAN.

BENMAGE IS NOT CONFIRMED, SEACORE IS. IF BENMAGE'S CHANGED PLAN IS FOLLOWED I AM GOING TO BE VERY UNHAPPY TOMMOROW.

[Trilobite]

We have had DAYS to sort this shit out and you wanna pull this crap now?

[Trilobite]

CD8

Username:Trilobite

Did you Hear Noise? Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who? No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No

List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Taboo

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who? No

Were you murdered? No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No

Are you bloody? No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful? No

Twitch? *Twitch*

Vote: Trilobite

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

I'm sure Benmage is going to ask, we attempted a res on Xvart.

We seriously need to throw out the stalk list.

Kunk is probscum, but we should still test for suicidal.

[Trilobite]

Xvart's on the stalkee list...?

Isn't he confirmed town...?

No, he wasn't on the stalk list.

[Trilobite]

We're willing to take Seacore's place on the testing team, and vote in the order that the team is listed, and use his order for testing.

If this is agreed on, we'll cast the first vote for Nacho.

[Trilobite]

There actually isn't a particularly good reason for xvart to ever bother picking up a res kit. (You can't be ressed when you're using a res kit, people need to pay more attention to this point.)

[Trilobite]

Btw Benmage, you're ressing tonight.

[Trilobite]

No fucking shit... we want xvart killed to confirm someone else because he has suicide. Of course I am ressing dumbass why the fuck do you think I got the kit. Geeeeeeeze I don't even know why I waste my time talking with scum.

You can really be an overconfident prick at times.

It would be wonderful if you or someone else could explain why we're scum.

[Trilobite]

Kunk should move down the suicidal testing list. (catching another cult who made the mistake of taking suicidal might eliminate a res kit that the cult are planning to use on Kunk)

[Trilobite]

I don't really understand what is going on with all of this grave robbing business. I don't like that either of you claims to have deviated from the plan. Can I hear your rational for it in detail?

Blame Benmage, he was the source of all the confusion when he tried to change everything up at the last minute.

[Trilobite]

You are unbelievable Benmage.

You pop in after the hammer of the previous day's lynch, fuck with the night actions.

And you don't think that kind of crap might not cause suboptimal night actions to be ordered in?

UNBELIEVABLE. (We ressed xvart because we thought you could be cult with your fucking last minute action changes and that you planned to kill him to cause night action confusion.)

Why don't you take some responsibiliy for some of the shit you do, and what your actions cause to happen?

And why don't you look back at Feysal's Baby Spice vote way back when which came pretty much reasonless and was completely contrary to the way he said he likes to approach voting?

We have long accepted that we are probably going to die by lynch or some other means at some point because a large enough segment of people are paranoid enough to think we're cult, but we might as well try to get this town to lynch cult before that happens.

[Trilobite]

It wasn't the smartest thing we've ever done in hindsight, but it can't seriously be worse than taking suicidal as an insanity.