Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]
-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Hi all! Replacing Ethereal Cookie. In the middle of a reread, and it seems a lot of stuff is focusing on mechanics, at least as far as I have reached. Anyways, I do not like having a vote out on a player that I have no reason to think is all that scummy, so
UNVOTE: Parama-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
OK, Sorry about delaying my reread; other stuff came up just after I replaced in. Will not be a problem though.
The first few pages of posts are all discussion about the game mechanics, so I have a question (that might have already been answered) before I begin:
@mod: if someone dies with an ability, is that ability revealed upon their death? If you have already answered, then ignore this.
The first thing I saw is that three town aligned players are dead, and it might be useful to know if they died holding abilities. In fact, from my quick skim of the first 6 pages, I saw that muh died because of an ability that he was given, so now I am assuming that abilities are not revealed. I hope we haven't lost anything useful. I guess I will have to finish this reread to find out.
Did you see the mod's post? Cycling happenspopsofctown wrote:We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him. You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.afterkills. Hmmm...
@mod, what happens if an ability is cycled to a player that has already been killed? The person with the ability wasn't killed, so there may be some ambiguity regarding special mechanics 3 and 4.
Even with killing on the next night, or if passing to a dead player destroys the ability, I highly doubt the game was designed such that any anti-town ability could be destroyed as easily as that; if they could, why were they included in the game. But, this is some serious mod WIFOM. And, I can't see a real flaw with this plan if we replace "kill the same night" with "lynch the next day" or "kill the next night", other than the fact that we are deciding a lynch or kill a day ahead of time, before the information from day 1 is revealed, which admittedly is a pretty big flaw. But I highly doubt that there are many anti-town abilities. Because they can all be easily destroyed like this, so the mod shouldn't have included them.
I like this plan, but there is a downside. When everyone with an ability claims, the mafia can look at each player that has claimed an ability to find out who they would likely pass the ability to. It could allow the mafia to find power-roles more easily. There are a few obvious counter-measures to this, so that's not that big of a problem, but it could matter.implosion wrote:Another thing I was thinking is that we might be able to just massclaim on day two. Mafia won't be able to kill anyone with a useful power role, and it'll give us some insight into what's in play. Oh, and any investigative roles can claim results without risk of their abilities being lost. I think it would also help the town more than the mafia because the mafia can share what roles they've gotten between each other, so they'll already have info about what's in play.
You are seriously suggesting to kill off the towniest player? Or am I misreading this? Or am I reopening two week old discussions that have already been resolved?popsofctown wrote:Oh, right, it is dangerous to give anti town roles to the person we find scummiest. Maybe we do this for the person we find towniest?
You had made it sound like your ability was really awful. In LYLO it could cause problems, but there is a lot of time to take care of that.implosion wrote:I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.
The more I think about it though, the less merit I think the plan has. Just because we don't know what roles are in play, so there are a lot of possibilities for error, and there are likely some negative roles that mafia could use if eliminated like this. Plus, I'd guess that most abilities in play are positive for the town. Those with such abilities obviously shouldn't claim them until tomorrow - but there are probably things like investigating/protection/vigging that are in play. I think the best thing to do might be to just pay attention to who has abilities like this, and make sure that at some point the abilities get eliminated. It might be a bit trickier with mine since it can't be gotten rid of through lynching.
Discuss.I do have one question that has probably already been answered, if you are "lynched" does it end the day, or not?You later say that it ends the day. Also, I think that tomorrow you should tell everyone who you give that ability to. Does everyone agree?
Wait. You're saying Saint is a furc/Vi hydra? This should be... interesting.I Am Innocent wrote:
Too sane for the Furc I know.Saint wrote:I'm here, guys. I haven't consulted with Vi, yet, so I'll keep this brief.
vote Saint
Which means that that situation is not LYLO, the game i already over. With a treestump in play, LYLO happens at even numbers.implosion wrote:Also, at lylo, the most worrying thing isn't a possible unlynchable mafia (because you could pass it to a townie) - it's the fact that a townie could be voteless. So lets consider a hypothetical 5-way lylo, with 2 mafia in the same faction and 3 townies. If a mafia member has the treestump, then the town has to lynch the other mafia or they lose. If a townie has the treestump then (assuming there are no vig/doc/etc abilities left) the town will only control 2/4 votes and will lose. At 3-way lylo, it wouldn't even matter who had it. If it's a townie, the mafia's vote makes it impossible to gain a majority. If it's the mafia, then well the mafia is unlynchable.
HOLY COW! I just checked the votecount, and implosion still counts towards the vote total even though he can't vote! That is the WORST treestump ability I have ever seen! LYLO still happens at even numbers though.
I'm thinking that giving this ability to an obvtown VI (if there is one, and there usually is) may be a good idea, except that said VI will only possess this ability for 1 day, instead of permanently.popsofctown wrote:What are the risks of trying to kill implosion's ability? Is the worst case scenario really a mafia doc saving the guy? A vigilante would miss getting a kill that night, but he wasn't guaranteed to shoot correctly anyhow. While this treestump ability makes us autolose LyLo, so it is the equivalent of an entire player, guaranteed.
I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?
This is mutually exclusive with claiming role results, but not claiming who was sent to. So the question is, which is more valuable: knowing all role results, or knowing who cannot be scum-partners?MagnaofIllusion wrote:How the cycling abilities will be handled -
D2 all players who survived and passed on abilities N1 should claim that they passed an ability, only revealing what that ability was if it gave them a Pro-Town result (like a guilty on someone). They are not to claim who they passed it to.
D3 all players still alive who passed abilities N1 claim who they passed them to. Then said players confirm / deny that they received an ability Day 2 that they passed on N2. They also reveal any useful results.
Lather rinse repeat each Day cycle. And continue to lynch scum.
You are right! If we pass this ability for a while it will give confirmation about who cannot be scum together. Maybe best use is to tell player with said ability to give it to the player most likely to be their scumbuddy (assuming said player is scum), and if they refuse, well youve caught scum. Arg! implosion already though of this in #63MagnaofIllusion wrote:While saddling a scummy player with an Anti-Town ability that is dangerous in the endgame and then killing them before it can be passed is a good strategy for late game it’s very bad early. For obvious reasons.
RedCoyote's #84 is the longest piece of fluff I've seen in a while.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
At the top of page 5, and I was expecting this reread to go faster. I haven't even caught up to where i skimmed to. It took me an hour to read 4 pages. Well, tomorrow night I will have a lot more time.
Anyways, at this point I agree with Magna's plan for anybody with an ability to say that you passed it on the morning after you pass it, and to say to whom you passed it on the next morning. Also, as I think I just stated, I think that the treestump should say to whom they passed it on the first morning, rather than the second. The treestump can be used as a sort-of investigation, as all abilities can. There is no point to worrying about destroying the treestump now, when this can be done at a later time, and may happen without even trying. Unless somebody has mentioned something important in the time after I have read.
Anyways, I will have 3 hours to read tomorrow, so hopefully will be to the top of 20 by tomorrow night, and then will be caught up on Monday.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Continuing with my reread:
AntB's accusations look too easy to me. Also, they were not accompanied by a vote. Why not? (Oh, he's dead)Helghast wrote:
Your name doesn't sit well with me...I Am Innocent wrote:
Oh and something about this post just didn't sit well with me...AntB wrote:Currently I'm not liking Muh, a couple of posts and no content; I'm also not liking quadz based on his "scumslip" vote on paramas nulltell.
I'm not too keen on the idea of a massclaim early on, however removing anti-town abilities early on could prove beneficial then the scum would be left guessing as to what is in game and where...
Also the spud has a "time limit" of X amount of posts for those who missed it... I would guess that the trigger is around 150~250 posts.
I would like a little bit more comment from I Am Innocent, but I do agree with him. Also, not worthy of a change of vote?
And, I can definitely see why Helghast was killed.
What's scummy about this "scumslip" catch. You can't just say, hey this looks scummy without reasoning. Or rather, you can, but it wont convince anybody. Also, Parama's power isn't quite so powerful as you make it out to be.diddin wrote:AlsoVote: Quadz08. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.
I also didn't like diddin's vote of WrathChild. That was such a light reason. And your theory does provide a very interesting explanation for his actions.q21 wrote:I also have an issue with your jump to wrathchild. When you vote quadz is looks like you're taking that vote fairly seriously, then you vote wrathchild for not revoting after he unvoted. It's a weak reason for a vote anyway and an even moreso as a reason to change your vote. Especially with nothing from quadz in between to explain a potential lessening of suspicion. My thought is that you didn't like that your quadz vote had gotten attention from MoI..
Unvote, Vote diddin.
Uhhhhhh.... why? As in, why would scum bomb his scumbuddy like that?quadz08 wrote:
Uhhhhhh.... why? Muh was an easy target for the potato, regardless of Parama's alignment.AntB wrote:If muh flips scum, parama is obvitown imo, I reckon theres about a 99% chance of that right now.
Notice, I agree with the people that say that Parama's bombing of muh is a nulltell. If muh had actually done the correct thing, he would have gotten rid of the bomb ASAP. However, I must also say that some of Parama's actions surrounding this event were a bit overconfident of him.
Uh, what?Powerrox93 wrote:With muh flipping town
VOTE: Parama
I'm going to believe muh on that one
Also on another note, I'm starting to think my predecessor may have been tunneling on Parama just a tad bit too much.
So you were specifically trying to avoid OMGUSing? By making up an excuse for an action. Before this, I didn't really find you scummy, but this just rings alarm bells.WrathChild wrote:Now there is talk of Day-Vigging me. That's a bit hastey. I guess I'll address the Scumday thing. I saw that Diddin (I think that was who, I'll double check) had put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further. I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him at the moment. I think it was Diddin trying to fish around for someone's overreaction. Normally I'd take that as a Null-Tell, but when trying to get "The New Guy" with this seems to tip the scales a bit on the scummy side.
RedCoyote wrote:Are you getting town vibes from Parama or do you have role information that leads you to believe that Parama is town? These are two very different concepts.
Unvote;vote: diddin
Ummm... can you show me where diddin says anything about role information about Parama. Because, I never saw anything like that. And I'm worried you may just be making up an excuse to vote diddin.RedCoyote wrote:At first he said he had reason to believe Parama was town because of his role, then he said that he was getting "town vibes" off of him, which strikes me as a completely different reasoning.
I'm gonna say that this is another example of where the wiki is wrong. I have never seen the role used in this way. I have already found and fixed really awful errors in the No Lynch and Jester articles quite some time ago.chkflip wrote:D'oh! Second one was @Ant. Why do I think that about Tree Stump? It's in the wiki. Which is why I asked Eruci if he's modified any roles... to clarify my assumpion that the ability can only be used if claimed in thread.
Arg! Still rereading-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
I know I haven't caught up, but as far as I am, diddin is my #1 suspect, and I saw this post and feel I have to reply.
Wasn't the treestump going to be used as a cycling investiaton? I'm not sure if you are the person to be suggesting any course of action. Unless I have missed us deciding that it is better to remove the stump than use it for an investigation. In which case: please ignore the ramblings of a madman that hasnt caught up.diddin wrote:There's been talk of vigging me. If you guys think it's going to happen, implosion should at least pass me the tree stump ability so it can go away at the time of my death.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
1 moment while I catch up on today. I was LA on Wednesday and Thursday, but I did get a chance to use and pass on my ability. I completed my reread on Tuesday, and can post some of my thoughts in just a moment.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Agree. As I said in one of my latests posts before nightfall, this fact makes WrathChild scummy, where he hadn't been before. His hammer that prevented me from finishing my reread is EXTREMELY scummy.popsofctown wrote:This seems a little bit paranoid, makes me find Wrathchild scummy, much more so than his failure to vote. He seems to see scumhunting as more of an attack and scumhunting that targets him as plots from an opposing force rather than the mistakes of a misguided townie. (of course, he could be right, it could be a cross factional dispute, but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse).
And you are the first person to have noticed this!? Well, at least someone noticed it.Saint wrote:RedCoyote's #84 is both scummy and lacking direction. I've gotten him lynched as a townie, and he posted completely differently than he did there. Whereas he responded to pops and implosion (two people I have my eye on) a lot, his post has NO CONCLUSION
When pops had suggested testing the unlynchability of implosion's role, implosion had not yet claimed that it would be a No Lynch (bad implosion!). In many cases, an unlynchable role will have absolutely no effect when it is lynched. There isn't really a standard unlynchable on this site, so it could have gone either way. So getting on pop's case for this is wrong. If you just jumped to the conclusion that it works one way, then maybe he just jumped to the conclusion that it works the other way.Saint wrote:By confirming this, you would essentially be forcing a no lynch... if he isn't lying, and is merely voteless.
Ooooh! My predecessor and Saint(furc?) are fighting. Cut it out you two!
Nero Cain says that most of ckd's posts look like fluff. But it isn't. Lack of reading, followed by a plan that developed from lack of reading. Followed by a real case.
Aaaand quadz points out that Nero Cain has mainly posted fluff as well. And it is mostly fluff. Hello hypocritical Nero scum!! Also, quadz is town.
Parama's "gambit" has me feeling a bit iffy. Until then I had him as leaning Town, but this is a bit iffy.
Also, please note that #257 is like the 4th time that themanhimself has shown evidence of not reading the thread.
And then comes his #258 which shows some very fine reading of the mod. Interesting.
RedCoyote's #289 actually says something!!
AntB's accusation against Saint is a good point. Saint never mentioned AntB, and then suddenly says he'd be willing to vote AntB. Same with AntB's case against Narsis, actually.
And now I see the certian reason for AnB's modkill. Wow, that was dumb.
@I Am Innocent #366: That may very well be. Although with two players so far that have done this, it may just be people not properly reading. Especially since ckd is one of the players that has shown this problem of not reading before.
That's now two players, Helghast and WrathChild, that have claimed to have no powers. Arg!
@RedCoyote #410: This looks townish. Although, I have seen scum try to get town cred by going after lurkers. But this still does look townish.
@chkflip #417: I'm liking this post. Especially the attack on Nero. chkflip is now townish.
@Magna #436: YESSS!! Awesome post. Also, I have slightly changed my mind about chkflip, because of the arguments Magna has presented. Not sure about chkflip now. Well, it seems that both of these players flipped, which makes this quite funny.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
tht was written overnight-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
EBWOP: that was written overnight. Because SOMEONE (you) decided that it would be a good idea to end the day before eveyone had caught up. Thank you!-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Sorry about the triple post. I should have included those last two posts in the long post I was writing. Especially with that Virus about. I was just annoyed at Wrath.
Agree with the sentiment, but Wrath is the person I find scummiest, because of many things yesterday.LynchMePls wrote:Vote: DarlaBlueEyes
Everyone should do this. The slot has pretty much 0 scum hunting, all go with the flow, and DBE made some particularly terrible posts that I would be happy to point out and/or discuss if anyone didn't see them.
Please ISO Narsis/Darla. Then vote for her.
OH GOD! TMH, you have got to be kidding me! That is an ability that should not have been used.
Hello mister liar! You do realize that MoI DIED, and so couldn't pass any ability. And did NOT HAVE any ability according to his death. So tell me, how you know you got an ability from MoI please.Bunnylover wrote:I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.
UGH!! Don't claim the ability and don't give a clue as to who you passed it to. Just claim that you had an ability to pass on. For other reasons that will be revealed later, I really hope you are not telling the truth about having the doctor ability.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:If we're doing the claim thing by MoI (who we now know as town) then I was a Firewall (Doctor) and have cycled my ability on to the person I thought was most towny.
That's one! LMP asked for three suspects.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:I think Diddin is probably scum, his whole narrowing down our dayvig choices and then never actually shooting until it was way way late in the day
OH GOD! TMH, you have got to be kidding me! That is an ability that should not have been SENT TO A PLAYER YOU THOUGHT WAS SCUMMY!
Page 35 is just full of TMH fail. So lets get this straight: you stole the Daykill, sent the stealing ability to a player you found scummy, and used jester speculation. However, I will not vote for tmh, because I think he should use his daykill AS DIRECTED BY THE TOWN, and then be lynched. Oh wait, he needs to pass that kill first. Lynch him tomorrow.
Agree with this entire post.I Am Innocent wrote:I am curious to know about this bus driving ability. Does it just switch two powers like TMH is suggesting, or do all powers get randomly distributed?
Also @ everyone that pushed for a lynch of Powerox with his ability, do you still think that was a pro-town move?Everyone that voted for him or pushed his lynch after he claimed is high on my suspect list.
I also would like to hear the multiple reasons TMH said he had for wanting that role out of the game?As MOI said, now that is out of the game, there is no reason not to answer that.
Smart logic. I can't disagree.q21 wrote:TMH passed his power to diddin it seems, therefore they cannot be scum together. Both, though, are scummy, but there is the potential to clear (at least mostly) one by lynching the other. TMH is currently in possession of a very protown power, for all that he gave it to himself, and diddin is in possession of a proscum power. Therefore I'm going to start the day with a diddin vote.
Vote diddin
NO! Everyone claims that they passed a power, but not to whom! If you claim who you passed the power to, scum will have a list of who to kill! This is the most anti-town thing I have seen!Parama wrote:Oh yeah thanks for reminding me, q21.
EVERYONE CLAIMS WHO THEY PASSED THEIR POWER TO LAST NIGHT.
Sorry if I missed anyone.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
This seems like parroting. Nothing to add other than what at least 3 players had said before you?WrathChild wrote:
This seems pretty significant and should demand explanation.nhammen wrote:
Hello mister liar! You do realize that MoI DIED, and so couldn't pass any ability. And did NOT HAVE any ability according to his death. So tell me, how you know you got an ability from MoI please.Bunnylover wrote:I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.
I was actually wondering this last night. If scum sent an ability to the void, there are some implications here. Although, I think that the mod will probably return abilities sent to the void by scum quicker than other abilities, but I'm not sure whether that type of setup speculation is useful.I Am Innocent wrote:Also, I did not see any mention from MOI's post about what to do with players who passed an ability onto a player who died. Is this something we should discuss D2 so we can easily track roles still in the game/not in the void? I am leaning towards yes but I want to make sure I am not missing anything.
Agree. I don't see any scum reason for his lie at this point, but I would definitely like some clarification.popsofctown wrote:I want to hear a defense from Bunnylover before he's chosen for the virus, and I also want to make sure we have a consensus. (although I don't understand the reason Bunnylover would tell a lie, LaL has a tendency to hold true. I won't actively oppose Bunnylynch if his defense is poor).
More parroting. And, if there is an SK, how do you know it is mafia that hit MoI rather than the SK?WrathChild wrote:I'd like to hear Bunny's defense, but am, at this point, A OK with his bombing. I think Bunny may have been the SK, a mistake like this probably wouldn't come from the group that ordered the hit on MoI.
HOLY COW!! Bunny explains his logic, and that required not reading A) the rules post, B) the sample town PM, and C) the two vanilla claims in the game thread. Wow... And, his logic is still not making too much sense.
Bunnylover wrote:1) It does not say anything about scum. The only thing intresting about it is that I have the choice to pass it or not.
Ummm, these two quotes contradict each other. Seems like a bit of flailing is going on here. So, Bunny do you have the choice to pass this ability?Bunnylover wrote:
Blah, I'm really fucking up this game with not thinking nor reading.Lateralus22 wrote:Are you just a pure normal VT?
I am a VT. When I read the front pm I could have sworn it did not have the second sentence.
Agree. Bunny has no ability today, and thought that having no ability was an ability, and more specifically, thought that this no ability must have come from MoI because MoI had no ability. Any more comments I give about this would be insulting Bunny, so I will not comment any further. However, I am leaning slightly scum for a few reasons specified above. But not enough to want him dead quite yet.LynchMePls wrote:Bunny is just an idiot. SI or VI to be determined, but I don't see this as a scumslip. Those trying to blow it out of proportion are scummy.
I agree with this. However, I must say that the rest of that post was decidedly unimpressive, and in one place downright horrible.Nero Cain wrote:Wrath-his and Bunny were the ones that finished off powerrox. Quick hammers are scummy.
You shouldn't stand by it. You never end the day before giving other people a chance to discuss. Unless the deadline is within 24 hours. Which it wasn't.Bunnylover wrote:If you want to get rid of me for quick hammering Powerrex, I disagree with that. I was reading the thread, I agreed with Powerrex lynch and understood the case on him, and gave my opinions which people probably had already said not sure. I stand by my vote on Powerrex.
chk's ability did NOT go to the void. It was removed from the game. Any abilities passed TO chk or MoI were sent to the void. Which is what the discussion is about. Please read the rules and iso the mod before posting next.Bunnylover wrote:@The discussion: MoI had no abilities, so no ability went to the void. Chk ability that went to the void was the ability Remover. Their is nothing to discuss on that subject. If any abilities were sent to them, I think the mod would have informed us like he did with Chk ability.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Wrath. He is the scummiest, and there seem to be more connections with Wrath than with Bunny (haven't actually checked that).themanhimself wrote:
So who do you support sending the virus to?nhammen wrote:EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild
I hadn't realized that I hadn't put this in until after eating lunch. But it's cool that you felt this worth to post about. Why?Nero Cain wrote:
It took you 22 minutes to decide this?nhammen wrote:EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild
WrathChild wrote:This defense has so many flaws with it. More than anything it shows Bunnylover is not paying any attention to what is going on. I still stand by the possibility of Bunnylover being an SK over Mafia. I am speculating that mafia killed MoI and Bunny killed Chk.
Yes, and that also works for "MoI was being productive to town hence why the SK killed him." So, I see two things here. First off, you seem to know who the Mafia killed. Secondly, you seem to be hunting for the SK over hunting for the mafia. Yeah, I'm sticking with my vote.WrathChild wrote:@nhammen: MoI was being productive to town hence why the Mafia killed him.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
1) That may or may not be true. The case on you yesterday did create connections that Bunny's slot did not have a chance to form. So, if Bunny had acted as scummy as you yesterday, then there may have been as many connections with Bunny as there are with you.WrathChild wrote:#1: The only reason I would seem to have more connection is because I wasn't inactive and required to be replaced like Bunny's predecessor.
#2: I never said I support hunting for SK over mafia. I said that Mafia-Bunny wouldn't have been so dull as to write that they received an ability from their own NK. As a result, I don't think Bunny is Mafia, but I do think Bunny is scum.
#3: An SK would be more interested in killing mafia than town for two reasons. One, to eliminate competition and Two, to be able to advocate that they are acting in the town's best interest in the event that they are discovered.
2) You didn't say it, but you were doing it.
3) But you waited until now to say that. Why?
My bad. Fixing it now.LynchMePls wrote:This is incorrect. I didNOTpass an ability last night.
-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Lateralus22 wrote:I already claimed, read my posts.
So you did.Lateralus22 wrote:Cuz.. I asked the Mod during the night if I was allowed to and I was told that no one was allowed to transer their VT status as it wasn't technically an ability, but rather a distinct lack of abilites.
Hmmm... How about you ask the mod about this.Bunnylover wrote:@Nhammn: It says I am not required to. To me, that means yes I have the choice lol.
I'd like clarification on the meaning of that last line. But I agree this makes him look scummy.Lateralus22 wrote:First off TMH is pretty much semi-confirmed scum. His argument for doing this is very bad, I mean come on there's really no vi left alive and why the hell would anyone internally pass it off to scum or a bad player? You are depriving of us of the info we would have gotten from the switch. This wasn't even a case of you having superior judgement… you're just taking orders.
What about the other evidence against Wrath? In fact, what is this leading thing?Lateralus22 wrote:K now onto WC. Leading isn't scummy, I always try to push my suspects lynch as opposed to blindly following.
I have a few ideas about this, but would rather she answer this first.Lateralus22 wrote:Why the hell didn't she say who she protected? This isn't going t hurt the town in any way at all.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Lateralus22 wrote:WC said he thought I was scum because of leading. Meaning I'm just a leader... I guess. Which evidence are you talking about?
Ok, I was wondering what was going on. Laterus' response to WC was just after you stated some reads, so I thought you were stating a read about WC. And I was confused why that read had some evidence that I hadn't seen (because it wasnt evidence against Wrath), but did not contain any of the evidence that I or others had posted. So the evidence I am talking about is all of the stuff about him actively trying to avoid negative attention on D1, quickhammering powerrox so that nobody could respond (extremely scummy), him apparently knowing which kill was the Mafia kill, and selective scumhunting.WrathChild wrote:My leading comment came after reading Lateralus' ISO, which contained almost exclusively questions, which I interpret as leading others to do your dirty work.
Yeah what evidence are you talking about, nhammen?
1) MISREP! I was saying that you were the Scummiest AND that you had the most connections, so you would be a strictly better kill than Bunny. Because for a midday kill, having more connections allows us to use those connections to influence the next kill.WrathChild wrote:1) I don't feel I acted scummily and to push for my death because there will be more connections than there would be with an inactive player is crap. You basically are encouraging lurking, way to go.
2) I was never actively looking for an SK. I was looking for scum. Scum = SK, Self-Aligned, and Mafia.
3) I guess I just assumed it was obvious. So this is one good thing of your attack on me, I get to spell it out a bit better.
Connections + Scummy > Scummy with no connections > connections and not scummy > no lynch
See, all those greater than signs.
2) But you specified that the player you were targeting was (in your opinion) likely SK. There is no reason to do that, unless you are searching for it.
3) Well, I don't know what I was expecting to see here. That has to be the response no matter what your alignment is.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
That's not what my "actively trying to avoid negative attention on D1" comment about you involved. My comment was about you saying that someone "put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further. I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him". This is the first scummy thing I saw from you.WrathChild wrote:When I was no longer V/LA, I'm sure an experienced player like yourself could see I was able to do more than defend myself.
What's not to get? He has explained this comment already. Now, you can argue with the explanation, but I don't see how you can say you don't get something he has explained.Nero Cain wrote:
I don't get thisWrathChild wrote:I am speculating that mafia killed MoI and Bunny killed Chk.
3) Someone elseI Am Innocent wrote:@ Anyone who passed a role last night, please say if you sent it to
1) MOI
2) Chkflp
3) Someone else
Scum would also want the vig ability for themselves to keep it out of town hands, while still leaving a player that most people considered to be scummy on D1. Just another reason that I find tmh's move to be highly scummy. There is so much scum motivation for it, and so little town motivation.curiouskarmadog wrote:I am saying the move is suspicious...scum would want to vig ability for themselves to take out townies...if today he kills someone and it ends up being scum, not as suspicious...but if he hits a townie, it doubles the suspicion in my eyes...
Agree, agree, and I like this plan. If tmh flips scum, it confirms diddin, ckd, and whoever tmh passes the vig to. If tmh flips town, it still gets rid of one of the most anti-town abilities in this game. Very nicely done. We can also get rid of the stealing ability if diddin passes it to tmh, but there are two questions related to this: A) does the stealing ability have to be passed to the person that you steal from, or did that only happen in this case? B) Do we want to give up on using the stealing ability for confirmation? I think for B, the answer is obviously yes. Stealing in the hands of scum can wreak havoc on all of our confirmation stuff, and it is better not to have this ability in the game.implosion wrote:@the Bunnylover slip; IMO Bunny is town. I think the mistake is just thinking that the "void" of the VT PM is an ability and getting confused over that. I can see town doing this, even if I am the one who found the slip first.
@DBE/LMP 987-988; agreed with LMP 100%.
@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of) it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town. What do people think about this plan?
I'd like Vi to explain why he believes A) Wrath is framed Town, and B) why these three (including myself) are "good targets". Unless he sees that as being beyond what he is supposed to be doing in this game. (If I am understandng the intent of this hydra correctly)Saint wrote:Plus I'm p. sure Wrathchild is Town getting framed.
The other good targets IMO (note that Furcolow's views are not my own and I haven't pressed my views on Furcolow) are:
*nhammen (rep. EtherealCookie)
*popsofctown
*Bunnylover
roughly in order of preference. I've wanted those first two to die, like, all game and no time is too soon.
I Am Innocent wrote:
QFTSaint wrote:The other good targets IMO (note that Furcolow's views are not my own and I haven't pressed my views on Furcolow) are:
*nhammen (rep. EtherealCookie)
*popsofctown
*Bunnylover
roughly in order of preference. I've wanted those first two to die, like, all game and no time is too soon.
So are those your four best targets for the virus? Also, why are you just agreeing instead of adding your own comments.I Am Innocent wrote:
Agreed.StrangerCoug wrote:Don't worry, I think there's a better consensus for that.
I got the virus and passed it to Darla, as she seems to be scummy, and more people agree about Darla than Wrath. I'd prefer if it was passed between Darla and Wrath, but I'd like to hear other peoples' ideas.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
know, we can't lynch tmh, but we can Virus or Daykill him-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Yeah, good evidence. Also, thanks for doing the background check on Darla. Seems to imply to me that if one of you is scum, the other isn't.StrangerCoug wrote:
She did voice a little bit of suspicion of you in her ISO 8, but didn't follow up on it. In fact, that's the only time she mentions you. I think we have a Mafiosa, and her name is DBE.popsofctown wrote:Wow, DBE sent me the virus, in spite of never having indicated suspicion of me, iirc
UNVOTE: Bunnylover
VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes
You know that we can be wrong either way. We can't assume that our reads are correct. That way leads to confirmation bias. So yes, both are scummy, but only one can be scum. We have ideas and hypotheses about which one, but we can't know until a flip. So what are you saying here, Innocent?I Am Innocent wrote:You know if Diddin indeed has the Bus Driver Ability, that he cannot be scum teammates with TMH, right?
Agree with both of these statements in post 1100, but I don't think I agree with the repeated Parama bashing that occurs later in this post, except the argument int the following quote:quadz08 wrote:I’m liking LMP’s case on Darla more and more as I read it… hm.
When was this, exactly? I don’t recall him saying anything resembling that.Nero Cain 858 wrote: Prama too. After he came back and pretty much said "I can't scum hunt without an ability!!!"quadz08 wrote:Parama’s reread post (898) is basically completely useless:
First, he says q21 should die based on post count. This is not a bad point, though the reaction is rather strong.
Second, he makes a useless comment about TL and how scummy he is / how his replacement is confirmed town (which, btw, he never explained.)
Then, he points out 7 quotes/posts. 3 of them hadn’t been mentioned before, 2 of them were “hey go town this guy’s dead,” and 2 of them had been thoroughly discussed before. The 3 new things he mentioned (pops’ quote, “let’s play the passive game” and “This just looks so fake”) have no further explanation about them. He posts those quotes, and that’s it.
He also mentioned being unsure about pops’ push on muh (or something? I’m not even sure, actually.) and me being boneheaded and obsessive about little things (with no examples).
Then comes a scumlist, and a declaration of 75% accuracy. (3 of the 4 people on his list are apparently scum. Impressive for someone whose scumhunting is more or less nonexistent. Seriously, look at his ISO. The post I’m talking about now is the closest thing to scumhunting he’s got.)
I guess he’s still in the process of rereading the rest, like he said he would. Or maybe he’s not. Y’know. Whatev.
Yeah, I don't see a problem with that post.quadz08 wrote:
Why does it suck, exactly?Nero 989 wrote:
Q21's 897 sucked.
Agree about Darla, diddin, Nero, and WC (except for the less part). Disagree about Parama and Bunny. Agree about TMH. Also, something is creeping me out about how you have frequently stated I am town or have defended me. It's like an ex-girlfriend repeatedly trying to get back together. And in fast moving games, I tend to use catchup posts frequently. You'll just have to deal with that.quadz08 wrote:Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.
Reminding players to answer these.popsofctown wrote:
Please do that now.Lat 1034 wrote: Darla is scum btw, might give an explanation later.
Bunny why is your brain picking Saint over Darla?
I never saw this. Nice catch.RedCoyote wrote:
Why are you guessing there's an SK? What about another ability? What about multiple scumteams? Why even speculate on this at all unless you have knowledge that I don't have.theman 836 wrote:Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.
@q21 #1128: This case against DBE, in combination with everything else, is quite compelling.
I disagree about Bunny, but agree about all of the rest. The buddying that quadz is doing may be nothing, or it may be another sign of what you are suggesting. So my three suggested kills for today are DBE, WC, and Nero Cain. Of these three, Nero has the fewest connections, so I would like him to be the lynch after the other two are taken out by Virus and Daykill.I Am Innocent wrote:Bunnylover, WC, and Darla are probably the best three choices for the bomb right now.
I do not advocate Diddin or Saint. My gut tells me people would love to have Saint (or should I say Vi) out of this game.
If I am right about pops being scum, quadz is a possible teammate. Something to keep an eye on.
I feel that there is more of a case against tmh than diddin. And since we pretty much know that they can't both be scum (although they could be lying about the ability), I'm more inclined towards a tmh lynch tomorrow. Also, why did you list Saint for the lynch?RedCoyote wrote:Well, let's say that we decide to wait and lynch theman. Okay. Worst case scenario.
Darla gets stuck with the Virus and flips town.
theman shoots WC and flips town.
We lynch Saint and he flips town.
Then two more town deaths at night. That's five more townies dead.
I'm not saying this will all happen if we don't go after diddin now, but I am saying we shouldn't spare diddin if we think he's scum just because we want to get a town confirmation from lynching theman tomorrow. We're already on a bad footing. That said, if a majority of the town thinks diddin is honestly not a good lynch, then that's a completely different story. I'll build a case against him with pleasure.
tmh being scum would explain that.quadz08 wrote:I'm with RC; let's flip it, and lynch diddin today, since we can't lynch TMH cause of his ability. Which actually reminds me: does no one else find it suspicious that diddin is still alive today, even though he held the dayvig power? Cause I do.
Agree here.quadz08 wrote:Actually, this is a really good point. I would have assumed that since the virus had gone off D1, that it was simply gone, and the dayvig power was free to use for the rest of the game. It coming back today was unexpected, and I assume it would have been unexpected for TMH as well... well said, IAI.
I disagree about you and Saint. My three are listed above.Bunnylover wrote:Well it appears that we have come to an agreement on who should hold the bomb between 3 people.
Myself (although I disagree on this lol).
Saint (Pefectly fine with this).
DBE (Not really seeing a reason not to keep the virus on him/her).
Other then these three people, no one name is mentioned.
We need to keep the virus between these three people.
If for some reason another person gets the virus, the previous owner should either be day kill by the vig or lynch as their is only two reason why you wouldn't keep the bomb on these three.
It was established early on D1 that the Virus cannot confirm alignment. The mod was asked about this.Saint wrote:i passed the virus to nhammen
lets make 75 posts really quickly so we can confirm my slot is town
I have some role information from my role last night related to this. I'm not sure if I should claim it now, or wait to claim tomorrow to hopefully catch someone in a trap. Just letting you know, there is something you are missing from the picture.Saint wrote:her recent post doesn't convince me that she is not blue, but Vi has convinced me to wait to d3 to push her if noone gets doctor-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Done with that. And nobody has claimed to have passed to either MoI or chk, so none of these abilities went to the void.
When q21 raised his argument for killing diddin, i couldn't find fault with it. So I can definitely see what you are saying. Although, even though I previously thought him to be scummy, I can't remember anything in particular he did that warranted that. I guess I need to go iso him. Now, q21's argument also mentioned that we should kill 1 of diddin and tmh, and diddin has the anti-town ability. This is very good logic, if I find diddin to be scummy upon iso. The biggest problem is that if one of them is scum, and we kill the wrong one first, then they will both end up being killed, instead of killing one scum and having one person confirmed town. So finding the right one first is a very useful thing.RedCoyote wrote:I'll let theory arguments and outguessing the Mod go on for a little while when it's of no real consequence to the game, but when you want to test these little schemes over the course of two days (we couldn't lynch diddin yesterday because he had a Vig power, now we can't lynch him because lynching someone else could "confirm" him (which is totally misleading, btw)) and put the town in peril, I'm going to put my foot down.
Have you even read the discussion? The confirmation does NOT come from the fact that tmh stole from diddin. It comes from the fact that tmh PASSED HIS ABILITY TO diddin. Holy crap you can't read. Although, I would like both tmh and diddin to ask if this ability is a standard ability.RedCoyote wrote:You think you can get off scot-free because you're assuming that theman couldn't have stole your power if he was on your team, right? If that's true, it should go both ways, I think, regardless of who initiated the pilfering. It's all speculative anyways.
You've done good to sell everyone on the idea that theman's alignment will confirm you, but the town doesn't have the luxury to sit back and speculate on Day 3 ability swapping theories. We need to lynch scum. Period. I think there's a strong possibility that both you and theman are scum, regardless of ability swapping. I'm not about to start confirming people because we don't have any scumflips yet.
I don't see why you two think that. The way it was described, it is passed at night, and there is nothing nonstandard about it. So what makes you think it would be nonstandard? This question is to both Wrath and RedCoyote.RedCoyote wrote:
That's exactly what I think. It shouldn't be assumed otherwise.WC 1149 wrote:TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions.
Ah. But worrying about which person is the wrong person is giving quite a lot of clues as to alignment. For example, if it turns out that tmh is the right person, both Wrath and you look much much more scummy. And Wrath is already at the top of my scumlist even without that.RedCoyote wrote:If we spent more time scumhunting and less time worrying about repercussions of lynching the "wrong" person, then we'd probably be heading in the right direction.
Ummm... what haven't I justified?RedCoyote wrote:
No, you have to justify it.nhammen 1173 wrote:And since we pretty much know that they can't both be scum (although they could be lying about the ability), I'm more inclined towards a tmh lynch tomorrow. Also, why did you list Saint for the lynch?
Dara; Wrath; Nero; some people still seem to think Bunny or Saint. Not as few as you would like us to believe.RedCoyote wrote:There are few compelling lynches other than theman and diddin.
Yes, it is as flimsy as the mod's rules post. That is so very very flimsy, aint it? However, just to make you happy, I have asked both diddin and tmh to ask the mod if the ability is standard.RedCoyote wrote:Moreover, I feel like it's at best a flimsy theory that theman couldn't have Bus Drove diddin if they were the same alignment. It's certainly not strong enough to forgo lynching someone scummy.
Very good point. I think that from MoI's plan, if there is a vig, the person that had (and used) this ability on N1 should claim on D3. If nobody claims vig on D3, then we either have an SK or two scumteams.q21 wrote:The one problem that occurs to me is that we had two kills last night. Unless someone comes forward with a vig claim we could be letting a SK or second faction a free walk.
Umm... I don't get what this means. Could you explain it again?Saint wrote:Also, why do you have interest in me yet interest for people who are interested in lynching my slot and it flipping town? Just the sheer ignorance of imagining a town flip seems ridiculous. Let's imagine a scum one.
Do you realize that knowing your own meta means that you can fake it. Especially if you have a partner like Vi with you, who would help you fake it if you are scum. I don't think you are doing that, at this point, but I haven't ruled it out. Especialy after comments like this.Saint wrote:Are you familiar with my play?
Do you realize I go the extra mile as town?
Are you familiar with my vehement scum-meta and easy-readability?
Why not ask the mod instead of stupidly trying to interpret it yourself? In fact, why haven't you done this as soon as the conversation about this started, if that is what you thought? I would have thought that that is what a townie in your position would do.themanhimself wrote:I got the virus and passed it to diddin, I think he's extremely scummy and I've brought it up before. One thing I want to mention is that from my interpretation of the redirector role PM, it's not a standard ability.
Ummm... tmh has already revealed the existence of such an ability. What would confirm diddin upon tmh's death is that tmh passed the evil interfering ability to diddin.implosion wrote:RedCoyote, obviously, if you are town, you should advocate the lynches of members of the mafia. I ask you a simple question, then; do you think themanhimself is scum, yes or no? If yes, then why the fuck are you pushing on diddin? How can theypossiblybe scum together if they are passing abilities back and forth? diddin proved that he had the dayvig yesterday; if tmh proves he has it today, then theycannot both be scum, and if there's some strange ability that allows them to be, it'll come up eventually.
How is this a slip? The mod has stated that this is not true, so this is more like being stupid that being scum.RedCoyote wrote:So now my question is, why is it that you and IAI are in such a huff to stand up for diddin today? He's slipped, on multiple occasions, that "certain abilities" are "more likely to be scum/town owned".
However, these are good arguments. I will look back at isos next.RedCoyote wrote:He left out important details about how the Vig power works after claiming it. He deliberately put off shooting yesterday for no logical reason. When we pressed him, he said he wanted to get more reactions, but when I asked him for specifics, he refused to answer me.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
tl;dr version:
@diddin: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard.
@tmh: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard. Also, what makes you suspect this ability is nonstandard? Also tell me why, if you suspected it not to be standard, you did not seek clarification from the mod as soon as all of this clearing business was started.
Whoops! From RedCoyotes quoting of Wrath, RedCoyote made it appear that Wrath thought that the BD ability could be passed between members of the same alignment, when that is not what Wrath had stated. I retract my question to Wrath.
I also asked RedCoyote a question, but upon reading, I saw that he already answered why he thought it was nonstandard. Apparently, RedCoyote thought that standard in the sense of this game = normal in the sense of the queues.
@RedCoyote: You said that I hadn't justified something, and I would like to know what I haven't justified. Also, you stated that diddin slipped, and I would like to know why you think this is a slip.
@Saint: I would like some clarification of the post of yours that I quoted.
OK, now RedCoyote has defended tmh. Multiple players have defended diddin. So, a flip could be quite instructive here.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Hey quadz, I never saw a response to this. I'd like to see if there is anything you want to say.nhammen wrote:
Agree about Darla, diddin, Nero, and WC (except for the less part). Disagree about Parama and Bunny. Agree about TMH. Also, something is creeping me out about how you have frequently stated I am town or have defended me. It's like an ex-girlfriend repeatedly trying to get back together.quadz08 wrote:Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.
nhammen wrote:
Umm... I don't get what this means. Could you explain it again?Saint wrote:Also, why do you have interest in me yet interest for people who are interested in lynching my slot and it flipping town? Just the sheer ignorance of imagining a town flip seems ridiculous. Let's imagine a scum one.nhammen wrote:@diddin: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard.
@tmh: Ask the mod whether the bus driving ability is standard. Also, what makes you suspect this ability is nonstandard? Also tell me why, if you suspected it not to be standard, you did not seek clarification from the mod as soon as all of this clearing business was started.
These were never responded to either.nhammen wrote:@RedCoyote: You said that I hadn't justified something, and I would like to know what I haven't justified. Also, you stated that diddin slipped, and I would like to know why you think this is a slip.
@Saint: I would like some clarification of the post of yours that I quoted.
I support having CKD send the treestump to TMH. We need to decide who he is sending the stump to before the day ends, so that we can say if he doesn't send it to that player, then he is scum.curiouskarmadog wrote:
I can..rather send it to bunny...but i have no problem passing it to whoever the town on a whole wants me too...since this ability is out in the open, we should use it to create linksI Am Innocent wrote:CKD, assuming both you and TMH make it to the end of D2, are you going to send the Tree Stump to him N2?
I'm not sure that giving TMH the redirector tomorrow is a good idea. I earlier agreed to such a plan, but I thing we have a better option available. Namely, the next post I am quoting contains two plans (#2 and #3) that I think are better.diddin wrote:
I couldn't agree more with this. I was told I have an unknown limited quantity of kills left. I have a feeling tmh might not be willing to eat the virus and with no virus, no daykill. There even may be no virus tomorrow.popsofctown wrote:Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?
I'm giving tmh the Redirector ability tomorrow.
The only issue with #2 is the possibility of the daykill being sent to the void by scumTMH. To counter this, we actually would need to use the redirection ability. This is what has me a bit iffy.I Am Innocent wrote:
This is actually a decent point. More below.popsofctown wrote:Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?
Here is what we know:diddin wrote:
I couldn't agree more with this. I was told I have an unknown limited quantity of kills left. I have a feeling tmh might not be willing to eat the virus and with no virus, no daykill. There even may be no virus tomorrow.popsofctown wrote:Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?
I'm giving tmh the Redirector ability tomorrow.
Coyote is acting scummier with every new post. He's misrepping the situation like crazy.
Here's what I say: Whether he is scum or town, we aren't lynching tmh today. So if I'm lynched, it's just an extra mislynch for us! As such, there is no way I'm willing to be lynched or killed today.
Treestump - CKD
Bus Driver - Diddin
DayVig - TMH
Options
1) We can send both Treestump and Bus Driver to TMH tomorrow, but if we do not have the dayvig and we do not have the virus/or he refuses to hold the virus, we cannot kill him until D4 (and he will have the ability to steal another power N3).
2) We can send just the Treestump to him and if no dayvig / virus, we cannot kill him until D4. Here he would not be able to mess with night abilities since no Bus Driver.
3) We can send just the Bus Driver to him and we can always lynch him if need be.
I still lean towards #2 because my guess is that the dayvig will still be in play with the amount of people we should start D3 with unless it is removed from the game. That would require TMH being killed prior to passing it. Since I think he is scum, I am going to guess that isn't going to happen.
Other benefits of #2, if I am wrong, then TMH who would be unkillable D3 would not be able to mess with the Bus Driver Abilities N3. Also a 3rd person could verify the Bus Driver ability and let us know if it is standard or not.
Summary/my suggestion: CKD sends the tree stump to TMH. Diddin sends the Bus Driver to somebody else.
Thoughts/counter suggestions?
More to come in a few hours...-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
WrathChild wrote:
Best post of Parama's ISO. It makes me worried.Parama wrote:The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.
On the top layer, I think I agree with this, but I want to look at our options before anyone pulls the trigger.
2 questions: what caused you to just realize something? Do you believe that both of these slots have acted horribly scummy?WrathChild wrote:
I just realized something. Parama is forcing false chain lynches,Parama wrote:The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.
IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.
@quadz #1361: Thanks for doing those isos. I agree that tmh looks scummier. I don't like that you are talking about multiple scumteams. Yes, I know it is possible, but I don't like you mentioning it like this.
At this point very few people have weighed in since Darla's death. Of these people, 5 of them mentioned that they wanted parama dead: Bunny, Wrath, CKD, quadz, and yourself. Your explanation is completely lacking (why does it sound like caught scum and none of the others with the same sentiments sound like it). The new info it gives is that you are scum. Hi there!themanhimself wrote:C'mon guys, don't wuss out, I'm playing in like four games right now and this one is hands down my favorite. I don't like that sentiment coming from parama because it sounds to me like he's scum who knows that he's caught. Implosion and pops haven't been major suspects so I don't necessarily see that coming from them. I'll do the game a three fold favor right now
[ b]Daykill: Parama[ b]
1) He doesn't want to be here
2) This will give us new info to go off of
3) he's scum
Most people seem fine with him dying in some fashion or another anyway
Hmmm... Apparently I misinterpreted the role information that I had.The Eruci wrote:Paramawas in possession of theDoctorability.
Interesting reaction to Parama's doc flip. Why is this the only comment you have? Anything else to say? No. Ok then.WrathChild wrote:FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
quadz08 wrote:That was actually intended for diddin, but to respond to your question: Bunny and WC are slightly scummy, while pops is on the town side of null. I've been meaning to look over pops' ISO, though; that's pretty much a gut feeling on him.
Also, I feel like it might not be a bad idea to just lynch TMH now. With this many dead townies, we can't afford to have scum end up with an extra kill, whether it's by poor passing decisions from TMH, or the redirector, or even something we don't know about. And besides, after the kill on Parama after promising multiple times to wait? Let's hang this guy.
VOTE: TMH
I highly disagree with this plan. There are much better options. We already know he is scum, now we want to find connections. We should be using cycling to give us more confirmed town, and using reactions to find scum.RedCoyote wrote:Frankly, I propose we lynch theman now. True, we're losing our daykill, but he basically just claimed scum with that shot. Before I just had reason to believe he was scum given his support of no lynching yesterday and his stealing the Vig ability, but now I know it. I don't know if the town should scoff at this without considering it. A scum flip will give us better information going into tomorrow. Additionally, if we lynch a scum today, and whoever has the other night shot knocks off another scum on the same team, we'll be in much better standing.
Vote: themanhimself
Thoughts?
I agree with this entire post, except the last paragraph is pure fluff and as Bunny says is too much bragging. As for your list, Bunny is VI town, in my opinion. And pops is slightly town to me. But I will reiterate that Wrath is my top scumread.I Am Innocent wrote:
Where was the claim request? I told you to ask for one before shooting! Esp since DBE all but breadcrumbed that she passed the Doctor role to Parama.themanhimself wrote:Daykill: Parama
whoops
Obv scum. I still want to wait until D3 to take you out, as I want the Treestump out of the game.
CKD, pass the tree stump to TMH tomorrow.
For anyone adamant about lynching TMH today, you obv think he is scum too so my say is to focus on the three players that helped push Powerox (and in essence save TMH D1).
BunnyLover
Wrath Child
Pops.
If anyone but one of these three players gets lynched, I am breaking my own rule and replacing out. I did not want Helghast shot, I voted for TMH over Powerox, I said DBE was being used as the easy target today, and said I had a town read on Parama, who is also a very solid endgame player. Give me some credit and let's please target just one of these three players D2.
@I Am Innocent #1419 and #1420: All that your case against Bunny shows is that he is a VI.
It should have been obvious at the time. When Darla sad she wouldn't say who she protected for the same reason that she wouldn't out who she passed it to, you should have let it drop.Bunnylover wrote:I outed Parama? No. Parama was not outed. He was protected by DBE. Yes in hince sight that would mean he would pass it to Parama as you pointed out, but thats leads into WIFOM situation.
The fact that it is you who is advocating this plan makes me very uneasy. If we do this, we need to have diddin steal the ability from TMH, send it to protown player A who diddin chooses himself (if we trust diddin), and diddin sends the steal to a THIRD player, who also must be protown. I think (but I'd like discussion on this) that we as a town can decide the third player. Wait, that would give clues as to who the dayvig is not going to. Nevermind.themanhimself wrote:
That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that pointdiddin wrote:Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."
unvote, Vote: themanhimself-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
I don't trust you enough for you to steal the dayvig. You need to redirect it to SOMEONE ELSE. Tomorrow, the dayvig WILL be used to kill TMH. Actually... crap. If diddin is scum, then he sends it to a protown looking scum, and if he is town, there is a possibility it could end up with scum, because he doesnt know alignments. But if he steals it for himself, then scum can kill him. Maybe that's not a bad thing.diddin wrote:This is true. Now if we don't lynch tmh I'll take the dayvig ability back to save it from the void if that's ok with everyone.
Plan A) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to player that is not TMH or diddin; give Redirect to player that is not TMH or diddin
A1) Player that gets dayvig and redirect are different players
A2) Player that gets dayvig and redirect are same players
Plan B) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to diddin; give Redirect to player that is not diddin or TMH
Plan C) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to player that is not TMH; DO NOT GIVE TREESTUMP TO TMH; give redirect to TMH; lynch TMH
Plan D) Do not steal dayvig; DO NOT GIVE TREESTUMP TO TMH; give redirect to TMH; lynch TMH
Plan E) Lynch TMH now; forget about the rest of this crap.
I do not consider giving both the redirect and treestump to TMH to be a viable option, so I have not listed it. I think there may be a good case for plan B, but I will need to ask a few questions first.
TMH and diddin: ask the mod if the redirect is a standard ability or not. DO IT NOW. Also ask what happens if a player that the ability was redirected to is killed the same night as the redirect.
We should ask for clarification from the mod rather than assuming.I Am Innocent wrote:If you take the dayvig ability back but are targeted, doesn't the ability get lost from the game? Wouldn't that be worse than going to the void?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
nhammen wrote:If diddin is scum, then he sends it to a protown looking scum, and if he is town, there is a possibility it could end up with scum, because he doesnt know alignments.
Yes, that is what I said. Which is why I am leaning towards diddin taking the ability for himself, depending upon the answers he gives to his questions. Or rather, the answers the mod gives.Saint wrote:nhammen- Consider that if diddin is scum, you just gave him license to throw the dayvig to a partner instead. If diddin is Town, you just gave him license to give it to someone who might not be Town.[/i][/color]-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
One problem with this post. Without diddin, the dayvig probably goes to the void. So why exactly are you wanting to not lynch tmh if it isn't to save the dayvig?quadz08 wrote:After reading the arguments on lynching TMH tonight, I'm actually going to do a 180: he should get the stump and get vigged tomorrow. It makes too much sense to NOT do it. Having the dayvig around longer is a concern for me, but if it's pretty much gonna be used to get rid of TMH/the stump, there's no reason to get rid of it.
UNVOTE:
At this point, I'm not terribly confident in any of my reads. diddin's D1 play, though, stands out to me as the scummiest thing thus far, so
VOTE: diddin
I can offer a counter argument to your sarcasm, but it is actually not a very good counter-argument, so I will say that I agree with the plan that if a vig shot one of the two players last night, they should out themselves now.implosion wrote:Yes, if there's a vigilante ability, then knowing who had it last night will definitely help the mafia kill it. Obviously. I mean, it's not like it would have been passed or anything.
Hmmm... I'm thinking about this. You are right: the virus is pretty much a guaranteed mis-kill. The only benefit of the virus is that it allows for the dayvig. Is that enough? This means that at best we have a 1 to 1 trade. With how much of a likelihood there is of hitting town with the dayvig, that is not good enough. Well, I guess we could do a mathematical analysis to determine whether it is worth it, but I really don't feel like putting that much effort into a game.implosion wrote:
I agree with, particularly the bolded. I mean, actually thinking about it, the virus is not a good way to kill people. If we tell person x to just sit back and die, if they are town they may oblige, but if they're mafia they'll just pass it to someone else (if they're going to die anyway they'd have no reason not to pass it on), so it's more likely to hit town than mafia.Saint wrote:--THE DAYKILL IS CONNECTED TO THE VIRUS
--WE ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO GET THE VIRUS BACK (in factI'd prefer it if we didn't)
--DO NOT BANK ON HAVING IT
Frankly, I'm considering the benefits of just lynching tmh today. It would get us started with our first mafia hit (if he's town I may quit this site), which could help raise morale, it could clear diddin (or at least clear him from one mafia faction if it's multiball), and the daykill is so variable that the more I think about it, the less I want it here. I mean, it's caused two miskills already. The only argument I've heard against that is that it gains information... so what, people are talking all the time, that should be plenty of information, and information is not worth miskills.
But this is a good argument for keeping the dayvig around for one more night at least. I'm still waiting for answers from diddin and tmh, so I'm not sure how I want to handle this.I Am Innocent wrote:No the other argument is that we will probably have no chance at getting rid of the Treestump.
The virus may get unleashed everyday. With or without a day vig. I suggest we keep the dayvig for one more day and get rid of TMH and the Treestump once and for all D3.
So, if we hit a townie, we do get a second chance to hit scum, but if we hit scum, we lynch immediately. Hmmm... I guess this is OK. Although, the chance of hitting two townies can be kinda bad. The only question is how to handle D3.I Am Innocent wrote:My suggestion on handling the virus each day it remains in the game is to have everybody place a vote. Once everybody places a vote (without taking anyone pass L-2), the person with the majority takes the virus and holds it until they die. If they refuse to hold it (indicating scum), they automatically become the choice for the lynch, and we go ahead and lynch that player right then and there and do not use the virus that day. Virus problem averted.***
***D3 would be the one exception if we want to out TMH and Treestump with the Dayvig, we would need to come up with a 2nd alternative.
For the dayvig passing, that seems like a good suggestion. We want the list large enough that the scum can't predict it, and small enough that if diddin is scum, he doesn't have buddies on the list, and if he is town, there is a low chance of scum being selected. So... what size is that?implosion wrote:An open question to everyone: how valuable do you consider the dayvig to actually be? Would you be willing to try the following or some version of it:
We give diddin a list of a few people, and he randomly busdrives the dayvig to one of them(so that in case he's scum, he can't use it elsewhere, and to minimize chances of dayvig winding up in the void). ckd passes the stump to tmh. Either shoot him or organize a group of people to spam during times that he isn't online.
Actually, that might be a decent way to control the virus kill... pass it to someone then spam while they're sleeping... it's devious yet could work.
For the virus, would that work? Doesn't it only count after they read the virus pm? I'm not quite clear on exactly how it works. I guess there are a few questions I need to ask the mod.
But itimplosion wrote:That isn't the question - the question is, can a mafia member use the bus driver ability to redirect an ability from one member of their scumgroup to another?wasmy question. Because NEITHER OF THEM asked the obvious questions. But diddin missed a question:nhammen wrote:Also ask what happens if a player that the ability was redirected to is killed the same night as the redirect.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Cool beans. Thanks for asking the mod those questions. themanhimself has REPEATEDLY refused to do so. OK, so if we tell diddin to steal the dayvig for himself, either the ability only goes to the void and someone that multiple people have been suspicious of is killed by scum, OR we keep the dayvig. However, since we have decided to use the dayvig to kill the treestump tomorrow (ckd IS giving it to tmh, or is scum with tmh) it seems that diddin should not steal the dayvig for himself, but should select someone else to give the dayvig to.diddin wrote:It would be voided, as if it were sent to someone who died by the original redirector, I guess.
And I was right. Mafia can use the redirection ability to pass abilities between themselves.
OK, my original question was this:RedCoyote wrote:
Yes, I did. Post 809.nhammen 1496 wrote:These were never responded to either.
Try again.nhammen wrote:
How is this a slip? The mod has stated that this is not true, so this is more like being stupid that being scum.RedCoyote wrote:So now my question is, why is it that you and IAI are in such a huff to stand up for diddin today? He's slipped, on multiple occasions, that "certain abilities" are "more likely to be scum/town owned".
Where do I state that there is one large scumgroup? Where do I state that diddin is confirmed town? In fact, I explicitly state that he may be scum! Are you just refusing to read? These strategies give us VERY USEFUL alignment information, regardless of the number of scumteams. And notice, one of the plans is to lynch tmh now, for those that prefer that option. Now, if we are killing the treestump tomorrow, then plan A1 or A2 are the only choices that will work.RedCoyote wrote:
These are exactly the kind of strategies I had hoped to avoid. We're seriously banking on the idea that there is one large scum group, despite the fact we had two night kills, that diddin is confirmed town, that everyone will pass their abilities in a correct way, and that scum have no abilities that could screw up this plan. You're willing to go down that path rather than trust your instinct and lynch scum based on pure merit?nhammen 1500 wrote:I don't trust you enough for you to steal the dayvig. You need to redirect it to SOMEONE ELSE. Tomorrow, the dayvig WILL be used to kill TMH. Actually... crap. If diddin is scum, then he sends it to a protown looking scum, and if he is town, there is a possibility it could end up with scum, because he doesnt know alignments. But if he steals it for himself, then scum can kill him. Maybe that's not a bad thing.
Plan A) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to player that is not TMH or diddin; give Redirect to player that is not TMH or diddin
A1) Player that gets dayvig and redirect are different players
A2) Player that gets dayvig and redirect are same players
Plan B) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to diddin; give Redirect to player that is not diddin or TMH
Plan C) Steal dayvig from TMH; give dayvig to player that is not TMH; DO NOT GIVE TREESTUMP TO TMH; give redirect to TMH; lynch TMH
Plan D) Do not steal dayvig; DO NOT GIVE TREESTUMP TO TMH; give redirect to TMH; lynch TMH
Plan E) Lynch TMH now; forget about the rest of this crap.
Ummm... you are almost (but not quite) the worst candidate for that.RedCoyote wrote:Additionally, I think I'd make a good candidate to get the Bus Driver ability tomorrow, so I'll throw my hat in the ring.
He also asked you who else is scummy. I'd like an answer as well.curiouskarmadog wrote:
speakign of scum hunting..StrangerCoug wrote:Hey, instead of complaining about what you can't do, why don't you make a concerted effort at what youCANdo? You know, like... scumhunt? Other than themanhimself, I have no clue whom you suspect and why, and even with what I do know about your suspicions with TMH it's not an awful lot.
before you made this post, did you at least go back to review my posts to see?? yeah thats what I thought...I have stated why I feel TMH is scummy (at least twice)...
bottom line, stealing the vig ability to kill a townie is scummy (on many different levels)..so you can play down that suspicion all you want (noted), but it was a scummy move.
On the note of a nightvig, I like that a lot. If there is a nightvig, and they kill ckd, it solves quite a few problems (for example, all problems that you mention in this quote). So I guess we modify the plan to: if there is a nightvig, take out ckd, and then we can just apply the virus as someone suggested earlier; if there is no nightvig, proceed as has been planned.q21 wrote:Of course, if there's a nightvig they could just shoot ckd and be done with it. The more I think about it the less I like the idea of sending the treestump to TMH, because if we do loose the dayvig we'd be forced to let him live until day 4, of course the problem with that is that by dealing with the stump separate from TMH we could be leaving it too late to actually do anything about it.
I already asked tmh what caused him to believe that it was a nonstandard ability and he refused to answer.I Am Innocent wrote:
Need to double check, doesn't Diddin say later that it is a standard ability?themanhimself ISO Post 68 wrote:I got the virus and passed it to diddin, I think he's extremely scummy and I've brought it up before. One thing I want to mention is that from my interpretation of the redirector role PM, it's not a standard ability. I'm only bringing this up because if diddin survives and passes the ability, he'll probably try to pass it to scum to clear one or the other (assuming he's scum, which I am).
I can agree with this. I had a townread on quadz earlier, but ever since I said that, he has been making sure that I see that he thinks I am town. His behavior has caused me to drop my townread into a scumread, but not down to Wrath or Nero or RedCoyote levels. Although, with some people thinking that Nero is town, I thought back and realized I haven't seen anything particularly scummy from him since D1, so maybe I have been holding onto that one due to confirmation bias (read: tunneling), and so maybe quadz has decreased below Nero. I'll have to reread Nero to see how I feel about him, but I don't know when I will have time to do that sort of thing.Saint wrote:Also, I can't tell if this slot is voting, so.
Vote: quadz (L-way too many)
RedCoyote is fine too.
The comment about implosion and pops comes from the fact that Parama made a similar post to the ones you quoted, and this is what tmh magically thought meant "caught scum". But it didn't mean that coming from the other two because they weren't suspects (read: easy targets).Saint wrote:Let's look at the last few posts before his shot.
pops wrote:You guys shoot whoever you want. I can't find scum in this game and I just give up. Well I can't totally give up, I've got a duty to play to my wincon, but I am going to take a break. I've read too many players wrong this game, I need some time to develop a new angle on this game. Or more information.implosion wrote:Frankly, I'm starting to feel this way a bit too. I really like the game concept/setup idea, but the town just seems to be imploding . We need to hit scum soon.To which he repliestmh wrote:C'mon guys, don't wuss out, I'm playing in like four games right now and this one is hands down my favorite. I don't like that sentiment coming from parama because it sounds to me like he's scum who knows that he's caught. Implosion and pops haven't been major suspects so I don't necessarily see that coming from them. I'll do the game a three fold favor right nowThe comment that implosion and pops "haven't been major suspects" is somewhat strange, but the fact remains that he thought he was doing a good thing. Besides, I think asking about the No Lynch D1 pretty much cements that tmh is impulsive when he tries to be helpful, and this is more of the same.
I have seemed to notice you doing this more than I remember seeing from you. I'm not sure if that's my bad memory or there being more of "that type of player" in this game than I am used to.Saint wrote:I don't like defending other people for them. They usually take the opportunity to look scummier, although they usually still flip Town. But it's the only way a VI-type seems to be able to get a fair shake.
Well... let us assume you have read the game. Then what about the case on Wrath do you disagree with? What about the case on RedCoyote do you disagree with? In fact, I will add some that I disagree with too: What about the case on Bunny do you disagree with? What about the case on pops do you disagree with? What about the case on LynchMePls do you disagree with? Let's hear why it is that you cannot find any people to vote for.quadz08 wrote:Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.
@RedCoyote #1566: You're advocating for lynching tmh and stating that people are admitting that the dayvig is not coming back. Well, multiple people have been working on a plan that DOES in fact keep the dayvig around. So, have you been reading?
But you just said that you "haven't the foggiest idea who's scum". And now, it's: I have always thought these guys were scum. Hmmm... I just did an iso of you, and what do you know, its almost as if you had to iso yourself to find who you are suspicious of. Congratulations, you have just committed one of my top scumtells. I now pronounce you the scummiest member of my scumlist.quadz08 wrote:
I have scumreads on Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint still. I could have my vote on any one of the three, but it wouldn't mean anything, and I don't really think any of them is scummier than another. If it's gonna be an issue for me to not my have my vote somewhere, I'll throw it on one of the three of them.q21 wrote:
So, other than those two no other scum read? Not even partial or slightly leaning scum scumreads? Really?quadz08 wrote:Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.
VOTE: quadz08-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
To be more specific on that last comment: people got on his case for not having suspects, so he went to his iso to find who his suspects were, and saw his iso 44.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
I haven't answered this yet, but from my posts, it should be obvious. I will do so anyways.
1) YesI Am Innocent wrote:I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.
1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?
2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?
My answers
1) yes
2) yes
2) Yes
Also, @Saint #1593: Good research. But I wouldn't wait up for tmh to answer questions; he has been refusing to do so for quite some time.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
implosionI Am Innocent wrote:If you had a cycling ability Day 1, please tell who you sent it to N1.
If you had a cycling ability Day 2, please tell the group how many abilities you had and confirm that you passed it/them along.
If you had a cycling ability Day 2 and you sent it to someone who died N2 (assuming there are some), please disclose that as well.
one
the player is still alive
bullshitcuriouskarmadog wrote:fuck, I missed getting my night choice in to pass.....asking mod what happened to it cause I dont have it.
bullshit. I'm asking the mod what happens if the ability is randomly cycled, and if you are lying, you are dead.curiouskarmadog wrote:to paraphrase...it is assigned randomly...I will not be told who it was assigned to.
yeah, although, if that player had the treestump, things would be so much better. I wonder why that isn't the case. Oh yeah.curiouskarmadog wrote:vote themanhimself
can we do this now please?
So what you are saying, is that if the dayvig was not redirected by diddin, it is in the void. Although, I don't believe you are telling the truth about sending it to RC. I think you are just claiming that so that you can say he can't be your partner.themanhimself wrote:Night 1 I passed diddin and Night 2 I passed to RC
Yeah, you are dying today. And after you flip scum, so is your buddy ckd.themanhimself wrote:I would definitely not hold the virus, townies have to protect themselves, it's a numbers game, the fewer townies the lower odds of winning. I'm not going to volunteer to kill one because there's a majority, that's not playing to my win-con as far as I'm concerned
No.DrippingGoofball wrote:
I just finished a PM-fest with the mod because I didn't understand something last night, my fault because I asked a question which was, in hindsight, poorly worded, and I misinterpreted his answer, and now when I got a PM from the mod for end-night result, now I get it, and I got it wrong last night. Do I make sense...I Am Innocent wrote:So you are claiming you had 1 role, and you did not pass it on?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Nuts. He isn't lying about the mod's response. Also, the mod responds FAST!nhammen wrote:
bullshit. I'm asking the mod what happens if the ability is randomly cycled, and if you are lying, you are dead.curiouskarmadog wrote:to paraphrase...it is assigned randomly...I will not be told who it was assigned to.
I have changed my theory to you decided not to send in a choice, since you couldn't choose your buddy.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Or rather, you did not answer the question that was asked.nhammen wrote:
No.DrippingGoofball wrote:
I just finished a PM-fest with the mod because I didn't understand something last night, my fault because I asked a question which was, in hindsight, poorly worded, and I misinterpreted his answer, and now when I got a PM from the mod for end-night result, now I get it, and I got it wrong last night. Do I make sense...I Am Innocent wrote:So you are claiming you had 1 role, and you did not pass it on?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Waiting to see if the virus is active. If it is, we can try to eliminate both Nero and TMH, and if the dayvig still exists, we can eliminate Wrath as well. Hmmm... I never did that reread of Nero I was planning on.DrippingGoofball wrote:Also, is there a reason why TMH is still alive? Is he, like, so pro-town that he can shoot townies and wagon them all day long with impunity? Because so far, townies are dying, and the scumz aren't. This is a scumteam that is not bus'ing. Distancing maybe, but not significantly bus'ing.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Although, I am liking your scum-puter, so I might drop my Wrath suspicions in favor of your top rankings, and also ckd for his refusal to pass the stump. In fact, we kill tmh with the dayvig (if it exists) and if he flips scum, lynch ckd-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
the virus is an ability (that is created by another ability maybe) that kills anybody that holds it for more than X posts, where X was (I think) 120 on D1 (from what Parama said) and 75 on D2. So it's a hot potato. We are using it like a lynch by telling the most suspicious person to hold on to it. tmh has refused to do so if he is asked to.DrippingGoofball wrote:What's the bizniss with the virus?
tmh "claims" to have passed the ability to RedCoyote.
Diddin could have sent it to someone else. He had the redirector ability.Saint wrote:nhammen wrote:
Waiting to see if the virus is active. If it is, we can try to eliminate both Nero and TMH, and if the dayvig still exists, we can eliminate Wrath as well. Hmmm... I never did that reread of Nero I was planning on.DrippingGoofball wrote:Also, is there a reason why TMH is still alive? Is he, like, so pro-town that he can shoot townies and wagon them all day long with impunity? Because so far, townies are dying, and the scumz aren't. This is a scumteam that is not bus'ing. Distancing maybe, but not significantly bus'ing.You're not reading. tmh tossed the dayvig.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
No, RC died before receiving the dayvig (if tmh is telling the truth), so the dayvig went to the void. And apparently there is an ability that can recover abilities from the voidDrippingGoofball wrote:Just to double-check, TMH says that he gave the dayvig to RC, such that RC should have been in possession of the dayvig starting last night?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
The dayvig is either still in play, due to diddin, or was sent to the void, where it can be collected.
@IAI you can collect items from the void on the same night they are sent there?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
yes, iso the mod. He has clarified it at some point.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Order of resolution is in the first post, and talking about the void appears later.
So, you use this ability on the same night you receive it? And can retrieve abilities the same night they are sent to the void? Is this ability standard? It seems to be used AFTER cycling. This is odd, to say the least. Especially given that the mod has stated that it goes Non-kill abilities, kills, cycling. Aaaand you confirmed that while writing this post.I Am Innocent wrote:Based on what Implosion said, I am guessing q21 sent his role to implosion.
Which should bring up the question, how did IAI get two power roles D2.
I was given a power N1 called the Void Collector Ability, where I could choose one power from the void and bring it back to the game. I had to pass this last night and I did.
At the end of N1, there was only 1 power in the Void, the Hibernate ability. I collected it and passed it along as well. So it is back in play.
The player who has the void collector ability will know if the Dayvig was in the Void, and if it was it looks like it was that player's only choice to take last night.
If they come forward without the Dayvig, we know TMH is lying and can kill him on the spot. But then risk losing the Void Collector Ability N3.
If that person has the Dayvig from the void, TMH could be telling the truth or could have sent it to Diddin and is covering by saying he sent it to RC. I personally do not get WHY he would choose RC over other players, so I think TMH is the lynch, the player with the void collector ability remains quiet, and we move to D4 and I send the treestump to CKD if TMH flips scum.
Thoughts?
Diddin had an ability that changes who someone cycles to. If he used it on tmh, he could choose where the dayvig went. Of course, he might have chosen himself... in which case it went to the void.DrippingGoofball wrote:
The scum killed diddin. Diddin can't play the dayvig, he's too dead. So if TMH transferred the ability to diddin, it's in the void.nhammen wrote:The dayvig is either still in play, due to diddin...-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
I forgot to say, I agree with this. I do not share Saint's sentiments regarding ckd. I had a null read on him yesterday, and if TMH flips scum, it provides a good explanation for why ckd "forgot" to send a cycling choice.I Am Innocent wrote:If that person has the Dayvig from the void, TMH could be telling the truth or could have sent it to Diddin and is covering by saying he sent it to RC. I personally do not get WHY he would choose RC over other players, so I think TMH is the lynch, the player with the void collector ability remains quiet, and we move to D4 and I send the treestump to CKD if TMH flips scum.
Ninjaed:
You're right. Especially considering who was worrying about ckd looking town. Nevermind. IAI, I'm not sure anymore.Saint wrote:Saint #137 wrote:RedCoyote wrote:Why does everyone love ckd as town so much?Look at ckd 45 and ckd 74. (This was before the mod clarified that the Virus could be passed between factions.) If there's only one scumteam in this game, I heavily doubt ckd would have said this. If there's more than one scumteam in the game, not so much. Since there's no proof (albeit a decent suspicion at this point) of the latter, I'm fine with keeping him off the kill list. Without looking at my notes, I don't remember disliking ckd overmuch until he started whining in four out of every five posts.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
No. It means that AntB was modkilled, remember.Bunnylover wrote:But isn't it possible for a power to make someone a SK/Survivor/etc.
This is why I think that YU9876414 - AntB [Neutral Survivor, formerly Eruci.][Executed by Judges.][Day 1.]
To me that seems like AntB had a role that made him a Neutral Survivor.
But I'm probably overthinking it.
READ THE GAME! Diddin died with the redirector. It was known that he had it. There were discussions about him redirecting the dayvig to himself. That is probably why he was killed. Thus, we dont know if he redirected the dayvig to anyone other than himself, or to himself, until everyone comes in and claims.Bunnylover wrote:I believe their is a redirecter in the game.
Diddin had a a good amount of suspicion on him, so it doesn't make sense for him to die.
Scum would just have gave up a mislynch and an ability that could offbalance the whole plan we have with the abilities.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
I cycled my Night 2 ability to Saint.
I would be suspicious of ckd for a "vote", but RedCoyote's comment about him makes me slightly iffy. ckd is still my top suspect, though.
And since I believe everyone has claimed (1) now, I did not have an ability night 3.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
So the question is, was that comment by RedCoyote, complaining about an accurate townread, which is something I have seen scum do multiple times before, or honest confusion about why his partner was seen as town. The thing is, I don't even remember if I have ever seen scum complain about people having a townread on a partner.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
This is rather important. Apparently, DGB received 2 abilities for D2/N2, but only 1 person has claimed to have sent her an ability. This means that one of these abilities was either sent from a player that died before D3 started, or from scum, or some unknown interaction with abilities. Although, I'm not sure whether or not knowing which ability we are talking about will be beneficial.I Am Innocent wrote:I need an answer to this question ASAP, Pops, did you Purge ChkFlp N1 or not.
I managed the N1 list, so let me go back and check:
Only three players that passed an ability N1 are dead: tmh, DBE, and quadz. tmh passed the redirector to diddin, DBE passed the doctor to Parama, and quadz passed hibernate to MoI. Thus, DGB's second ability from N2 is unexplained as a town pass. Either scum gave it to her, or it was some unknown ability interaction.nhammen wrote:-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
That means that whoever killed chkflip on night 1 LIED ABOUT THEIR ABILITIES. Every dead player had either claimed to not have an ability N1, or had claimed exactly what that ability was, and it was not the night vig.popsofctown wrote:
Neauxpe.I Am Innocent wrote: I need an answer to this question ASAP, Pops, did you Purge ChkFlp N1 or not.
@DGB's scumputer calculations: I know it is rather odd to be pointing this out, since it would increase my score if it is a scumputer error, but I noticed that you don't have me listed on the quadz wagon, and I remember that I was on the wagon that lynched him. So I went back and checked, and tmh was not on that lynch wagon. So, is this an error, or did you get the quadz wagon from somewhere other than his lynch?
That has been the plan for how to deal with the treestump. That's why it was supposed to be given to tmh. But his lynch worked out nicely, since the virus never surfaced yesterday.Saint wrote:modcan you dayvig the treestump, successfully putting the ability out of the game and the player?
I actually thought about giving the reason for it when I posted that I passed to you, since it was a bit odd of a choice, but I realized that if I gave a reason away, scum could use that knowledge of my method of passing to find out who I would pass to on any other night, so I deleted that from my post just before submitting. Why do you wish to know?Saint wrote:nhammen, I'm actually kind of curious - why Saint for your N2 pass?[/i][/color]
I am not responsible for the Nero Cain purge.I Am Innocent wrote:Everyone please officially claim if you Purged Nero Cain or not last night.
So, the Void Collector thought that you would make the best person to hold the Day Vig? What? Question for IAI: if the void collector was in scum hands, could they pass the collected ability to a scum partner?WrathChild wrote:Since there is some confusion. I'll clarify:
1. I have had no ability for the entirety of the game until today.
2. I have the Day Vig. It is inactive.
3. It is flavored a bot oddly, so I'm gonna double check everything.
Yes, I would like more information from pops about the virus as well.Saint wrote:Apologies to WrathChild go here. I see no reason not to believe that the Daykill needs the Virus to work, though. If everyone has posted Today (and I'm too lazy to check) then the Virus should be beach-ball bouncing around right now if it's present at all. If that's not happening, passing abilities is always good if nothing else. Where the Virus went is a pointed question for [/i][/color]popsofctown, again.
DrippingGoofball wrote:
This player may no longer be with us.Saint wrote:Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either.False.Unless they were lying scum. Everyone who has died has claimed what ability they had Night 1.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Also, while I agree with the q21 suspicions, he has the treestump, so I see no point in pursuing this right now. If he lives tomorrow, I am all for his lynch.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Sorry for the triple post, but I have some specific questions about the virus creating ability for pops.
1) Is this ability standard, or nonstandard?
2) If the virus creating ability is not in the void or destroyed (we would know if it were destroyed), does the Virus necessarily need to be given to someone, or not?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Aaaand, finally, did any abilities get sent to Nero Cain last night? If so, we probably should know. Or does the existence of a Void Collector negate that need?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Do the collected abilities have the same restrictions as well?I Am Innocent wrote:The Void Collector has the same restriction as other abilities, which for me is that I cannot pass more than 1 ability to the same player each night.
I think that at this point, the amount of information we have is quite much. Adding more can't do to much worse than already has been.I Am Innocent wrote:@ Everyone, please state in your next post if you think at this point in the game, whether we should mass claim our roles from D1/N1 & D2/N2? And why you feel that way.
This explains it.StrangerCoug wrote:since I misunderstood the ability and thought I didn't have to pass anything I didn't remove from the void, you got the dayvig at random.
Still catching up, but have to do something else, so will get to the rest tomorrow.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
As previously stated, the non-pass is highly scummy, but ckd's interactions with RedCoyote don't look like scum. Unless RedCoyote is a lot better than I thought. For the Day-vig, there is a reason the stump was given to q21. But I don't see any chance of the Day-vig becoming active. So I hope that the purge can be used on q21 tonight, because he needs to be gone, and that stump needs to be gone.WrathChild wrote:Well I think we still need to address the non-pass of the Stump to TMH, which would implicate CKD as scum. If my Day Vig become active, I will probably shoot the stump. I'm gonna go back and look at the Q21 case, at this point I feel it may be my duty to Day-Vig him if the opportunity arises.
DrippingGoofball wrote:
Because you can't lynch me today anyway, on account of the ability I've been passed. And if you can convince a lot of players of what you are trying to convince them of, it's going to make it doubly useful.Saint wrote:*ignoring it completely and continuing as if it weren't there, because it's completely indefensible[/i][/color]
Yeah, DGB needs to read that too.implosion wrote:
What reason does a town player have to say "hey guys, i'm a power role right now, scum can get rid of it by killing me tonight?" In effect, that's what claiming a power role does.ckd wrote:please explain to me how claiming is scummy
I tracked chkflip on N1, and saw him target Darla. When he flipped, and I saw his a ability revealed as Ability Remover, and then Darla claimed to have had the doctor N1, I was very worried. And then Saint came up with a plan to determine whether Darla was lying based on whether or not the Doctor ability was seen by who she passed it to. I was trying to breadcrumb as hard as I could that there was missing info. Eventually, I stated it right out. Apparently, the way I had assumed that chkflip's ability works was completely wrong though, so there was no reason to do any of this.implosion wrote:Definitely a role that should be outed. It's a tracker. I didn't get anything useful out of it.
I thought that Coug claimed to have retrieved the Day Vig from the void.I Am Innocent wrote:Day Vig:diddin->themanhimself(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug/randomly sent to WC -> WrathChild
Agree with this on every note. I would very much like to see q21 gone tomorrow night.I Am Innocent wrote:Not sure what he is, but as long as it is just "questionable" or scum players getting taken out, he can live in my book. I see a very town player get purged, he is gone. (hint hint, q21/treestump is a very questionable person, hint hint)
Would you mind telling me what comment(s) of Bunny's you are referring to here?Saint wrote:he also appears to have more knowledge of the setup than anyone I've seen yet, while having the grammar of the uneducated.
Lemme guess, DGB was supposed to get a Doctor message. This explains everything.The Eruci wrote:I sincerely apologize for this, but it has been brought to my attention that there was a mod error in DrippingGoofball's final Day / Night Two Ability Message. DrippingGoofball has received a corrected Ability Message for that Night.
lolpopsofctown wrote:Does anyone feel like every single subsequent post SC makes gets scummier and scummier? Like I seriously think his iso is ordered from town to scum.
Early in the game, I actually decided not to send to him because he was too towie, and was a likely NK. Not any more.
An actually good point from scum21. But pops says it best:q21 wrote:This question seemed innocuous at the time, but given that we now know she had 2 abilities it becomes suspect since if you have two abilities surely its obvious you can be passed two abilities. Unless one of your abilities is one that never passes - then you'd have to check, because if you can't be passed two abilities then letting slip later in the game that you had two abilities marks you out as different, ie. scum. Or SK as is probably more likely.popsofctown wrote:q21 makes a good point about dgb-sk,but somehow sk hunting doesn't make me feel better about his alignment.
You are right. How could DGB possibly know where whatever ability she has came from?LynchMePls wrote:
Are you fishing for a reaction here? Cause something aint right.DrippingGoofball wrote:
OK you're shotgunning posts, so going strictly by memory, it was because of the ability he passed me. Scum would never give me that I after I shot down one of them.popsofctown wrote:How did you "know" LMP was town today then?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
How did you know which ability you got D2 was from which person? Until I claimed to have had the tracker, you had no way of knowing it wasn't q21 that passed you the Trace.implosion wrote:
Yeah, it is.q21 wrote:implosion - should I claim my day 1 role... I get the impression that that's the role you're suggesting is kept quiet.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
q21 is CONFIRMED TOWN. Unless Saint is scum. I asked the mod, and the Mafia Kill counts as an ability in the ability count. If you target scum, they will have at least 1 ability. Anybody with 0 is confirmed town.Saint wrote:N3 we had an Ability Cop, which just returns how many abilities someone had. It's... kind of useless actually, I didn't know what to do with it. We confirmed that q21 had 0 abilities N3.[/i][/color]-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
In fact, I targeted RedCoyote N2, and he had 1 ability, even though when he died, he was listed with no abilities. BTW, that really freaked me out. The only two players I targeted were both killed on the night I targeted them. I had to go back and check my role PM after that, to make sure I hadn't misread, because I was so incredibly freaked out.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Now I will have to re-clarify with the mod, because all that was said is that the kill counts on the results. I just figured it counts for all members. I guess I should have asked for more specifics. Will get back to you with more details.Saint wrote:And the clarification PM just came in.
nhammen isnot correct. Only the person using the factional kill will register as having that ability.
So, q21 isn't confirmed. I still think this reflects well on nhammen though.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Saint's version is correct. My first version is incorrect.
Also, I would like to reiterate that our mod responds ungodly fast to queries. Awesome job!-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Not a misrepresentation, just a misunderstanding of the mod's answer. But I can easily understand why you feel that way.Saint wrote:the whole misrepresentation from NHammen may not mean he is scum, but it definitely has my FoS
This is a large reason for the suspicions surrounding DGB. WeWrathChild wrote:#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?havebeen taking a look at this.
Am I the only person getting deja-vu? Didn't trying to direct the day-vig end badly for us? And now you want to direct a night vig that we don't even know any details of? That is looking more like a scum kill than a vig? I'm not sure that this plan will succeed any better than the previous one. I guess it's the best way we currently have... that's pretty bad though.I Am Innocent wrote:If you read my plan, there is a reason:
1) q21 is scummy and has the treestump. The Purge Ability is the one chance to take them both out at the same time. DGB is off limits today.
2) DGB should be tracked. If they come back doing anything other than targeting q21, auto lynch from the group D5
If we are down 4 scum to start D5, DGB may still be the best lynch D5. That is a decision for then. But for now, DGB is off limits.
If Purge is with someone other than DGB, what does this do? Is there really any point to tracking her? If she doesn't target q21, then q21 doesn't die, and we know to lynch DGB, so tracking her has no effect upon this plan.I Am Innocent wrote:"Purge ability (whoever that may be ) is used on q21"
"DGball, should be tracked. If he gets tracked with anyone other than q21,everyone needs to lynch him D5."
"
DGB vs. Saint is full of useless; after the beginning, the same points just get repeated. Yes, I get that there is evidence pointing to DGB being a SK. You don't need to be repeating that point so much. The signal to noise ratio of this argument is extremely low. And it is making it difficult to read.
LynchMePls wrote:@Saint: ckd is scum. DGB is probably scum. The difference is massive.
That is the crux of the argument. Which one is more likely to be scum than the other. There are reasons to suspect both, but it is very difficult to say who is worse. Both of you responding like the answer is obvious does nothing to help the situation.Saint wrote:Yes, between the failure to pass to tmh and generally not existing since sometime in Day 2 there's quite a bit of reason to believe that ckd is scum, and only a fragment of Page 4 words to defend him.
Contrast that with Goofball, who has been all but positively identified as scum and (separately) a killing element.
The difference looks like:
*ckd has a snowball's chance in Florida of being Town
*Goofball has a snowball's chance in Hell of being Town
*A Goofball lynch, if SK, would reduce the number of night-killing elements in the game by 1, slowing LyLo even with the Tree Stump still in play. If second scumgroup, it would cast everything that has been done during the Day and the Night so far in a completely different light.
Therefore a Goofball lynch is not only more likely to hit scum, but also more likely to help Town.
I will reiterate the "interesting" and raise a "he never responded to this."I Am Innocent wrote:
How do you know they shot me? I said either me (Doctor Protection) or Implosion (Hibernate Ability)?popsofctown wrote:
MoI was not particularly pro-town, just really active.I Am Innocent wrote: @Pops, you ask me if I am kidding. You said anti-scum factions would kill each other first. Well if that is the case, why is the shotgunning team shooting at MOI, Diddin, and me/Implosion? Your theory seems to only work for one team...
Diddin had been publically confirmed not to be a part of the shotgun faction, and wasn't autotown at all. As good of a shotgun target as an Elite standing a meter away with his shields down.
As for shooting you, idk. The shotgun faction might have thought tunneling and dueling scum is a thing. Or the primary scum faction may be less certain there are two factions, since the purge kill flavor had a rather positive ring to it. Or it'd be the second time someone who was attacking me had died, so perhaps I was the ~real~ kill target there.
Interesting.
This argument, coming from one of the scummiest players, is the best argument I have seen on the issue.popsofctown wrote:As furc has explained, leaving DGB alive is the most dangerous thing regardless of whether she's SK or an entire scumteam.
1. If DGB is SK and ckd is scum, lynching DGB puts the ckd lynch off a day, but then we lynch ckd the next day and an explosion of confirmed innocents and other preponderances of information win the game.
2. If DGB is SK and ckd is scum, lynching ckd gains the same preponderance of information and we then proceed with great accuracy, but we do so while potentially losing two townies a night, dampening the autowin down to a maybe. Yeah, maybe DGB is terrible at mafia and shoots q21, but even then you're just changing autowin of (1) to autowin, at the risk of losing autowin. Zat's no good.
If DGB is Sk and ckd isn't scum, but rather someone who didn't post in any games because he really wasn't on mafiascum, then lynching him means we lose up to two townies tonight, don't even get the helpful information, and are forced to lynch DGB the next day, and basically it's just like 2 except even more fail.
Selective scumhunting is usually regarded as a scumtell, because it is an easy way for scum to fake scumhunting. IN the case of this game, I would call it a nulltell, because most players agree that DGB looks like an SK. Your argument that it is a nulltell, however, seems fabricated to me.Bunnylover wrote:Frankly those who are saying that lynching DGB is scummy are idiots.
Scum would both want to keep DGB around so later down the line they can say, "Alright now lets stop scumhunting and kill this Sk we are all so sure about!"
Scum would also want to kill DGB now because it means they don't have to waste their NK on him and he is a threat to their win condidtion.
This all means that wanting/keeping DGB around is a null tell.
Wait. Did I miss something? Where was this?Saint wrote:DGB has claimed multiple kills, in a game with cyclable abilities.
And now you too. How do both you and pops know who the shotgun targeted last night?Saint wrote:Although now that you mention it if he can't be aligned with Goofball and he stopped the "shotgunned" kill, LMP is confTown no matter what.[/i][/color]
I agree with his point, although, personally I would switch the colors of pops and Coug, and I'm not even sure what pink means. Is it more or less scummy than orange?Saint wrote:IAI wrote:Assuming CKD hops on the competing bandwagon, we have Scum suspects {BL, Pops, Saint, and CKD} on the DGB wagon.My first thought was to mention something about arrogance... and it's my second thought too. But...curiouskarmadog (5[+2]) -implosion,WrathChild,I Am Innocent,StrangerCoug,LynchMePls,[nhammen,DrippingGoofball]
DrippingGoofball (3[+2]) -Saint,Bunnylover,popsofctown,[curiouskarmadog,q21]
*Black - Green if Goofball-SK, Red if Goofball-second team...you do have a point.
Could you please tell me how you got that from what she said?popsofctown wrote:
Alternate pro-town wincon softclaim? Not buying it since you already claimed Eruci earlier.DrippingGoofball wrote:
I have not claimed SK, get lost, now you're pushing the misrep a little too far.popsofctown wrote:IAI, why do you still expect a player who has claimed SK to be motivated by threat of delayed lynches?
I'm town and I win with the town. Furthermore, I'm totally anti-scum.
Are you insane? Or are you scum that knows something that nobody else does?popsofctown wrote:
You tell me. Why do you think you're alive?DrippingGoofball wrote:
WOWpops wrote:ScumDGB could also have a role interaction involving a teammate to protect her from nightkills, perhaps the ability remover of confusing mechanics does it somehow even.
How did I miss that???
Where does this NK protection bizniss come from?
Where does this ability removal bizniss come from?
Hi pops! I see you have now ignored two questions from other players (and responded to some others in a very useless manner). I have quoted IAI's question for you, and have restated DGB's in a different form. Please answer.
I am starting to think of this as aDrippingGoofball wrote:But what if Q21 is town, and you're scum?verydistinct possibility. But I still think we need to purge q21.
I will honestly say I haven't decided on the issue yet. Both ckd and DGB are scummy based on night information, and I can see the arguments for lynching both of them.Saint wrote:(Minus the fact that otherwise sensible people are completely ignoring me, I'm kind of enjoying this.)[/i][/color]-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
It wasn't updated. I had Trace on D1, and q21 had ? on D1. Also, could you please use different colors for people that have flipped town and people that you believe to be town?DrippingGoofball wrote:Roles that could determine a lack of scum teammates:
Treestump:Implosion->Curiouskarmadog->I Am Innocent->q21
Day Vig:diddin->themanhimself(stole the ability) ->StrangerCoug/randomly sent toWC -> WrathChild
Void Collector: (nobody D1) ->I Am Innocent->StrangerCoug->
Hibernate Ability:quadz08->MOI/Void/Collected byI Am Innocent->Implosion->
?:popsofctown(Virus) ->DrippingGoofball(DoubleVoter)/randomly sent toLynchMe-> LynchMePls -> ?
?:Bunnylover->nhammen->Saint-> ?
Tracker:q21/nhammen->Implosion->I Am Innocent (Bunny)-> ?
?:q21/nhammen->Implosion->popsofctown-> ?
Roleblock: Saint (DBE) ->q21->Implosion (NC)-> ?
Purge Ability?: ? ->DrippingGoofball-> ? -> ?
What does q21/nhammen mean?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
q21 needs to die tonight. However, you have stated that you believe pops to be more scummy than ckd. Does this mean you are changing the plan to pops lynch and q21 purge?DrippingGoofball wrote:But we do need to decide whether Q21 or pops is the scum that needs to die - regardless of the tree stump business. That's very important. Everyone should voice their opinion. EVERYONE. In their next post.
I am talking about the Hibernate role, which could also have stopped the kill. I'm guessing you glazed over that too?popsofctown wrote:I glazed over the possibility that DGB is NK immune. At the (100%) risk of using self provided meta, my perspective on this may be biased because the only time I drew SK I got no such luxury.
As for the possibilities of an unknown role preventing the kill even after the massclaim and scum just declining to shoot, they seem so unlikely that they don't need to be repeated every time something gets analyzed.
I don't consider this a claim, but maybe I am letting DGB off the hook a little too much just cuz she is acting like DGB.popsofctown wrote:
Direct claim here.DrippingGoofball wrote:
And I chuckled hard.popsofctown wrote:
I lol'ed.Saint wrote:Given that Goofball is an SK (or even just a permanent Vigilante who lies and quickhammers, so it's pretty much the same thing)
In any event, you guys seem to know that I'm Eruci, so my having a scumteam can be eliminated - though lying quickhammerin' permavig remains an attractive possibility.
Is the virus something that gets used up?-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Your most recent chart, with some updates (in purple)I Am Innocent wrote:Roles that could determine a lack of scum teammates:
Treestump: Implosion -> Curiouskarmadog -> I Am Innocent -> q21
Day Vig:diddin->themanhimself(stole the ability) ->Void/StrangerCoug/randomly sent to WC -> WrathChild
Void Collector: (nobody D1) -> I Am Innocent -> StrangerCoug ->
Hibernate Ability:quadz08->MOI/Void/Collected by I Am Innocent -> Implosion ->
?: popsofctown (Virus) -> DrippingGoofball (DoubleVoter)/randomly sent to LynchMe -> LynchMePls -> ?
Monitor: Bunnylover -> nhammen -> Saint -> ?
Tracker: nhammen -> Implosion -> I Am Innocent (Bunny) -> ?
Neighborizer: q21 -> Implosion -> popsofctown -> ?
Roleblock: Saint (DBE) -> q21 -> Implosion (NC) -> ?
Purge Ability?: ? -> DrippingGoofball -> ? -> ?
Night 3 Actions to pass along
LynchMePls: had one power role D3
popsofctown: had one power role D3
Saint: had one power role D3
StrangerCoug: had one power role D3 (two if you count the dayvig randomly being sent)
I Am Innocent: had two power roles D3
Implosion: had two power roles D3
nhammen: Vanilla Town D3
Curiouskarmadog: Vanilla Town D3
WrathChild: Vanilla Town D3
DrippingGoofball: Vanilla Town D3
q21: Vanilla Town D3
BunnyLover: Vanilla Town D3
When Day 5 happens we should do the following in order:
1) Everyone in their first post state who they sent an ability to Night 3
2) Onceeveryonehas completed step #1, then everyone come forward on whether they had a power role Day/Night 4 or not.
1) I was Vanilla N3
2) I had Track last night, and since IAI had to be the one to send it to me, I decided to obey his instructions, and tracked DGB. Her two targets were q21 and LMP.-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA
Looks correct Wrath-
-
nhammen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: March 15, 2009
- Location: Houston, TX, USA