Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Equinox]

I'm town. You're out of suspects.

Constructing the voting spreadsheet for this game was no small feat. I never knew that one person could hop votes so damned much. Grumbling aside, I spent too many hours on this thing, so I actually haven't done any reading here. I'll get to that momentarily.

A bit of irony: Someone on Day 2 or so complained that the wagon on Percy built too fast. For all of the phases following that, you guys couldn't get Percy lynched. That wagon is the most difficult wagon I've ever seen.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's Percy. From what I gathered while skimming for votes, Percy's been getting plenty of hate. Scum needs to manipulate 4 lynches; that's plenty intimidating for anyone. I don't think Percy would kill one of the few players who supported him.

I'll decide once I've caught up, I suppose.

[Equinox]

I give up.

I've tried to write this post

4

5

6

7

8

times now. Each attempt resulted in something that would break General Rule 7, go against my win condition, and/or result in language unfitting for a PG-13 rating. This post probably still violates the third condition, but I'm done trying to edit.

Therefore, I'll settle for this.

Don't

fucking

hammer until the replacement has finished reading the

damn

thread.

Please and thank you.

[Equinox]

I think we are getting near time that I reread the thread...

Also thinking with 1 key NK left, nothing more than a Top 1 at this point. Counter reasons anyone?

Everyone should re-read. (If only to give me the time I need to finish reading this thread for the first time.)

We really should be agreeing on who's the last scum at this point, so no counter reason from me.

[Equinox]

Impromptu Christmas events.

V/LA December 24-25

I'm still reading for this game; I'll work on finishing by the 27th (which is, I admit, ambitious) because I may have limited access starting December 28, length unknown. >_>

I appreciate you lot keeping the game going and all, but friendly reminder to not hammer anybody until I'm done catching up, kthx.

[Equinox]

Some of us are still recovering from the holiday. ;o

[Equinox]

I have to admit the grind Equi is putting on is blowing my mind on the scum read on him.

Why? I don't see how the wait is indicative of alignment.

[Equinox]

That would make the only real scum tactic there an attempt to...I dunno, slowly drive town insane by making them listen to furc or something.

OH SNAP.

I really underestimated the amount of words in this game. I'm on page 9 (yes, I do suck), and already my brain is fried and lines are starting to blur. Crap.

I hope you all won't mind too much if I take a few more days to read... I'll try to work out something during my limited access period. (If it is a period. If it turns out I'm only out for a day, then all is well.)

[Equinox]

Happy birthday, Benmage!

[Equinox]

Sorry. I'm behind schedule; I'm working on remedying that today. After I get through the second day, the pace should pick up, since my focus is on Dry-fit, mongoose, and Baby Spice and whatever connections they drew to you lot. I realize we've got three shots left (2 before LyLo), but I don't want to rush through them, especially not after witnessing that speedy hammer.

[Equinox]

waiting on a wagon to vote.

So you don't know who's scum, then?

[Equinox]

Okay, fuck this.

In a 17.7 KB text file, I've raged and called Furcolow scum for about 9 KB of it. And then I look at this vote count and see that none of you are on him right now, and I think...

Well, if 4 townies don't think he's scum, then I must be doing something terribly wrong!

Tell me why Furcolow isn't scum, please.

[Equinox]

Actually, let's just do this.

VOTE: Furcolow

I will not lynch I Am Innocent.
I will not lynch jasonT1981.
I will not lynch Benmage.

I have the obvious solution, then.

Besides, right now, my eyes are so filled with lust for Furcolow's blood that any further investigation will yield nothing. I want Furcolow to swing at all costs. I don't like his wagoning behavior. I don't like his connection to Dry-fit. And, after over a week of thought on this, I still hate his "Percy's town but he's a liability so I'mma hammer him for good!" hammer when it's a late-stage game.

If you guys want samples from that text file, I'll provide them. Lots of them. Just... kill him.

[Equinox]

Since jasonT1981 asked for it... (It's split into 3 parts 'cuz the whole thing breaks the board.)

Spoiler: Commentary Track (Part 1)

Blue = town, red = mafia, default = unflipped, etc. Okay, let's go.

Here we've got the usual pre-game silliness. Benmage forgets the rules, which I find somewhat surprising as they were clearly stated in the queue thread. I Am Innocent's numbers are a little helpful but unnecessary... and now I'm alarmed at his reaction to Benmage. I don't see why scum would do what Benmage did there. Though now that I think about it, Benmage skipping the Rules post twice is really odd.

Dunno how Nikanor got to this conclusion about scum's night discussion from Zachrulez's disclaimer. I was under the impression the rules would prevent coded communication in-thread during the day or something given the double lynch mechanic. Uh... (Oh, lol.

Sotty7

came to a different conclusion. That works, too.)

Post 63 reminds me of how big the task of metagaming you lot today would be. Blargh. It has to be done eventually.

I think he mixed up "scummy" and "anti-town", which happens often enough - not least because a decent number of people believe they are synonymous.

+1

Y'know, this is pretty incredible. IAI -> Benmage, and then

RedCoyote

->

Sotty7

based on

Sotty7

-> IAI. All of these are built on misunderstandings. It's a house of cards, seriously. Why did I just waste time typing that.

Post 70. Uh... what? Benmage "newbie feel" got a chuckle out of me, but those numbered points, especially #2, make me sad. #2 is sad because I hate hate hate it when people push "I DID THIS FOR TOWN"-type defenses with a bloody passion.

I'm a little confused. IAI insists he believes Benmage is town but then accuses Benmage of being anti-town. Eh? We're not in a newbie game.

---

Christmas is over. I think I'll make suspect lists and stuff in here. It's not like anyone bothers reading these, right? So these are just for me. :3

jasonT1981 makes a compelling argument for IAI-scum in post 78. What bothers me is what

Percy

mentioned prior to his lynch, that IAI's attitude toward the scum lynches were genuine.

Post 88: Sfndsxlkhiorwfoiawvnkddsb?! (MOD: I banged my fists on the keyboard.) What the hell, IAI? Mind = blown. I really dislike post 92 as well. >> IAI was at 3 votes, 4 if we include self-vote; 9 to lynch. Talk about overreaction.

I agree with this post. I think the people who lead discussion away from lynching tend to be scum, and the stats didn't help this. However, I am innocent does list his suspicions and they seem to be decent so for now I think he is town.

Leaving this for later. It's more likely than not that this tidbit is useless, considering the power differential in play.

mongoose

's vote on Benmage doesn't feel like distancing or bussing. Reads like an opportunist, really, since he's piggy-backed a previous case.

Interesting note about IAI-scum meta by

Sotty7

. In the game I played with IAI, he never really got serious pressure. I should look this up.

Because I think

Elmo

is worth sheeping at this point, as of post 99: Benmage = town, IAI = town, Nikanor = scummy^?

Really? You don't think his self-voting tantrum was

anti-town

? And what is the purpose of your unvote?

Interesting tidbit is interesting. If

Dry-fit

were scum with IAI, he probably wouldn't have said "anti-town." Stoofer's syndrome.

Someone remind me, please... who's Nikanor?

Anyone want to give me a quick synopsis?
What is the best wagon? Nikanor, IAmInnocent, RedCoyote, Oso?

No. :frown:

I'm a bit annoyed. Because IaI made so many bad arguments before that self-vote, and on principle, throwing an antitown hissy fit shouldn't manipulate people off his wagon...but it feels genuine. Call me a sucker, but I'm buying it. So I'll direct my attention elsewhere.

Oh, that reminds me. I pulled that stunt in a game with IAI, and it worked.

IAI-scum would use it, probably.

Again, need to look up his recent scum meta, preferably one where he was pressured. >> On further thought, IAI-scum using that tactic in a game with imkingdavid, Locke Lamora, Nikanor,

and

Sotty7 is very unlikely; a significant number of individuals in that set use metagame. Therefore, IAI's reaction is more likely to be town.

Posts 112 through 114 make me sad. Voting before reading the entire thread, cherry-picking, and the gem of the series (read the post immediately after for some good irony).

Locke and I *used to* have a perfect win record when we were on the same team (which I believe has happened every game so far).

Sorry. ._.

because if you say "this person is townie" that helps scum pick out pr
if you say "this person is a PR" well......
it's lose/lose on day 1

Um. What the fuck?

Gee. This was helpful.

Preview edit: Yay! A scum lynch -- a great way to start 2011! :excited:

[Equinox]

Spoiler: Commentary Track (Part 2)

Confused. Let's summarize. Paraphrased...

Nikanor: jasonT1981 needs moar votes.
RedCoyote: Is it coincidence that your vote's on him right now?
Nikanor: I'm, like, a day cop. jasonT1981 is scum, confirmed by me.
RedCoyote: But I'm serious! People may think you're still RVSing.
imkingdavid: Why'd you claim so early?
Furcolow: Wait, are you serious?
Nikanor: Vote was random, now it's srsbsns. Claim was not srs.
jasonT1981: He's lying! He is not a day cop! If he were, he'd know my true role!
jasonT1981: Okay, I see that he really was lying. He could've outted the real cop, so my vote stays.
Elmo: Wait, shouldn't you already know he was lying?
jasonT1981: Well, he admitted to it. I'm referring to this.
Elmo: Weird way of putting it. Why did you word it that way?
jasonT1981: I thought it was implied.
Furcolow: He worded it to avoid you semantics nitpickers.

Slightly less confused... in that I'm very curious about why Furcolow jumped to jasonT1981's defense there.

Eww, post 155.

Supplemental to post 163: Nikanor's admission posted at 11:26, jasonT1981's initial accusation posted at 11:35, and jasonT1981's follow-up accusation posted at 11:37. Post 140 is knee-jerk reaction to post 139, timing fits. Post 139 should be knee-jerk reaction to Nikanor's claim post. Time to read material between claim post and admission post should be in the neighborhood of 10-15 minutes. jasonT1981's story checks out. Not sure what that means, but at least I am now less confused.

Oso gets a gold star. Good catch, sir.

I Am Innocent's 174 is honest.

looking at furcolows last 4 posts he says he thinks we should hurry up and lynch someone, but doesn't say anything contributive as for WHO to lynch. then he gives a vote without information. I don't like that at all.

nothing else really jumped out at me

unvote, vote furcolow

Hmm... Not sure how to read this.

Dry-fit

and jasonT1981 are probably not scum together. He's being opportunistic.

Quote walls like this make me sad, too. Furcolow's defense is soaked in WIFOM, but whatever. His push for Dry-fit at this point smells like bussing, but I need to reexamine. This, too. >> Note to self: Furcolow says Dry-fit is being wagoned and doesn't answer others' attacks. The latter is partly true. Regarding the former, the first to vote was Oso in post 125, followed by Furcolow in 168 when he "followed [his] heart" (WTF that means), and then followed by Locke Lamora in post 172. Furcolow's accusation was in post 185. Dry-fit posted in 159 and 181.

I can get behind percy this game. His post feels really protown.

I probably shouldn't be ragging on this guy as much as I am, but dammit, this line is so blatant.

---

Starting from where I left off on page 9.

Why so serious, jasonT1981? I thought it was obvious Nikanor was joking with the "I'm a day cop" comment; that doesn't preclude the seriousness of his vote. What's going on?

I remember Benmage being antagonistic in Cereal Killers 3 months ago, but here he's just being a prick. Wondering if that difference is related to alignment...

Oh, cool. RedCoyote summarized the whole jasonT1981-Nikanor conversation, too.

---

Here we go again, from post 223.

Stray thought: I should mark down havingfitz's, Locke Lamora's, and Sotty7's suspect lists and see if there's anything in common.

Oh, no. The dreaded gut, this time from Locke Lamora to Benmage.

Wait, what? I should probably refresh my memory from Furcolow's last post and see if I see what he's seeing. Okay. Post 212, he's "suspicious" of Benmage and Dry-fit and has slight scum reads on Elmo and IAI. Post 228 (also linked above), Furcolow voted Benmage for something that "[made] no sense" to Furcolow. In the interim, RedCoyote mentioned that he felt it was odd that Benmage tunneled on a slot Benmage believed was town (IAI). Okay, shit. I don't know if I made any sense to myself at all. Erm, moving on...

Yay Oso for doing a complete re-read. I love those. ...and that was enlightening.

Um. I should stop being surprised by Furcolow. But... what? I mean, he set it up in post 230 with the whole "well, out of the 3, jasonT1981's the most suspicious." Few posts later, he's like, "I don't want jasonT1981 cleared." Um, WTF?

A few days ago, I had to stop for the day because I was tunneling Furcolow, which was coloring my read of the game. Well, here I am again. I want to lynch him. What I'm really curious about is why Benmage (I think it was Benmage) says Furcolow is town and is sure enough about this to call off any votes on him.

We have about 2 weeks still to lynch, so this isn't damning, but JasonT should have his vote out somewhere by now. I am happy to lynch him because I feel if he was town his vote would be

somewhere

.

Oh, hey, Benmage has a story behind forgetting how the lynch mechanic worked in post 205. (Did I seriously miss this the first time I read it? It's not in here.)

(One huge quote wall investigation later...) Looks like an honest mistake to me. :V

[Equinox]

Spoiler: Commentary Track (Part 3)

redcoyote: I caught his claim but it was a joke, since he had admitted to lying a few posts later. All of that happened while I was asleep iirc. I didn't think too much of it until the whole Jason thin evolved which was a rather stupid case. He made a mistake. I can see why he kept the vote on after he admitted to joking. After finding out is was a vanilla game he took it off. Unvoting was a possibility, but he had a case and maybe a bit of regret in his vote. I excuse that.

I don't know, does this look like scum protecting a buddy? Doesn't feel like it to me.

---

Got some down time right now.

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified.

Aha! He protects his scum buddies. Only problem is that he does this to enough people that I can't effectively discern between protecting scum buddy and buddying scummy town. Yargh! I guess I can have some comfort in knowing he's not a busser. (But bussing's the easier of the two to read. Yargh again.)

Wait, wait. He's voting Furcolow?

It's easy and weak in my eyes because I have played a bunch of games with Jason. This is how he fails as a townie, he acts before he thinks. As scum he is much more calm and controlled.

I love you, Sotty7. This saves me metagaming jasonT1981.

What the fuck?

Hmm. As of right now, town read on IAI and jasonT1981, mild town read on Benmage, I don't know about Nikanor, and headsplosion read on Furcolow.

---

Now I see why Benmage called for Percy's lynch for so long.

i liked

dry-fits

#257

I'll assume he meant post 255, which was indeed written by Dry-fit, since Benmage's 257 is about scum advantage in mountainous games in general. Eh. On the surface, if you didn't pay any attention to the game at all, Dry-fit's post does look like it makes sense, with the comment about the RedCoyote wagon tacked on the end. Oh, hey, wait a minute. What the hell happened to Furcolow's suspicion of Dry-fit, anyway?

(This is why I'm taking so fucking long.) Isolation of Furcolow reveals: Post 168 (iso 17), votes for Dry-fit presumably on gut. Post 183 (iso 18), happy with a "quicklynch" of Dry-fit. Post 185 (iso 19), explains his vote on Dry-fit. Post 196 (iso 20), buddies Percy and asks him to join wagon against Dry-fit. Post 212 (iso 21), Dry-fit is still suspicious. Etc., etc. Post 230 (iso 27), of {jasonT1981, imkingdavid, Furcolow}, Furcolow thinks jasonT1981 is most likely to be scum.*

* = {jasonT1981, imkingdavid, Furcolow} taken from Oso's 229.

Continuing Furcolow isolation. Post 233 (iso 28), Furcolow votes jasonT1981. Dry-fit has completely vanished from this guy's reads. In the meantime, Furcolow continues tunneling jasonT1981 and even attacks him for going V/LA. Post 267 (iso 33), where I am now, Furcolow "likes" Dry-fit's post. And there's really nothing Dry-fit said between 212 and 230 that could break a scum read.

Fuck, I think I'm tunneling. Maybe I should just lynch Furcolow now?

Furcolow seems to like any lynch that either is generally agreed upon by the majority, or that threatens him.

...and now I rest.

I stopped taking notes after this (not that I made much progress in reading after I stopped, since I'm on page, like, 13 (:oops:) -- but like I said, filled with bloodlust for Furcolow at this point).

[Equinox]

I just realized something.

You're welcome.
Benmage, could you list who we are going to lynch?

In order!

The bold portion implies a series of mislynches.

Go, wagon, go!

[Equinox]

The failure of 1432 aside...

I want Furcolow to swing

at all costs

.

I bet my own lynch on this.

Deal?

[Equinox]

Thor665, I have nothing to lose in making this bet. If Furcolow flips town, I will be suspect for pushing an "easy mislynch." Besides, my only suspect if Furcolow isn't scum is you by process of elimination, and we have 3 shots remaining before game over. I only make this bet when I'm dead certain of something, and right now, I cannot see Furcolow being anything but scum.

I do not accept your proposal. In fact, I will not support any lynch other than Furcolow's today. If, by some terrible twist of fate, I am wrong, do whatever you will with me, but until then, I want Furcolow dead.

Since you asked for it, Thor665 -- the "failure" refers to your accusation that I am pushing an "easy mislynch" on Furcolow. That is an excessively easy accusation to make these days, and there's even an MD thread about it. I have a rant to accompany that, but it's not particularly relevant to the situation at hand, so I'll spare you. In general, I think "He's pushing an easy wagon on a VI!" to be a very poor case.

Remember when furc sort of blindly lumbered onto the Dry-fit wagon "following his heart" as his only real logic and then suggested Dry-fit should be quicklynched? Quicklynched! Dry-fit had just then managed to barely tie with the other top wagon, and furc had left the alternate top competing wagon (on jasonT who had "scumslipped" remember that?) to try to get Dry-fit lynched.

And then Furcolow jumped right back on jasonT1981 as if he never suspected Dry-fit at all:

i liked

dry-fits

#257

I'll assume he meant post 255, which was indeed written by Dry-fit, since Benmage's 257 is about scum advantage in mountainous games in general. Eh. On the surface, if you didn't pay any attention to the game at all, Dry-fit's post does look like it makes sense, with the comment about the RedCoyote wagon tacked on the end. Oh, hey, wait a minute. What the hell happened to Furcolow's suspicion of Dry-fit, anyway?

(This is why I'm taking so fucking long.) Isolation of Furcolow reveals: Post 168 (iso 17), votes for Dry-fit presumably on gut. Post 183 (iso 18), happy with a "quicklynch" of Dry-fit. Post 185 (iso 19), explains his vote on Dry-fit. Post 196 (iso 20), buddies Percy and asks him to join wagon against Dry-fit. Post 212 (iso 21), Dry-fit is still suspicious. Etc., etc. Post 230 (iso 27), of {jasonT1981, imkingdavid, Furcolow}, Furcolow thinks jasonT1981 is most likely to be scum.*

* = {jasonT1981, imkingdavid, Furcolow} taken from Oso's 229.

Continuing Furcolow isolation. Post 233 (iso 28), Furcolow votes jasonT1981. Dry-fit has completely vanished from this guy's reads. In the meantime, Furcolow continues tunneling jasonT1981 and even attacks him for going V/LA. Post 267 (iso 33), where I am now, Furcolow "likes" Dry-fit's post. And there's really nothing Dry-fit said between 212 and 230 that could break a scum read.

[Equinox]

Hmm... A thought just came to me.

Thor665, how strong is your read on Furcolow?

[Equinox]

I was going to follow up my earlier question to Thor665 with another question, but then while on the road, I remembered that Thor665 has been boxing himself in all day by proclaiming that only my slot could be scum. While I remember Thor665-scum doing a PoE sort of thing in another game, that was closer to endgame than this situation here; Thor665 can't do an opportunistic 180 without looking bad. Heck, I Am Innocent is picking him apart now for even mentioning the possibility.

But I think we've won the game, so whatever. :V /cockiness

@IAI - So you seriously think

all three scum were trying to push through a jason mislynch

with the logic of a weak scumslip (from two of them) and nothing much at all from the last? I'll admit if that's the scumteam it's not the most dangerous scum team ever, but I'm still pretty sure they understand the basic concept of not all pushing a single mislynch at the same time.

Bold portion is incorrect. mongoose was on the opposing side:

jason's thing about the cop seems kinda pointless. People make mistake and I dont think the fact that he didn't read the set up makes him scum. TBH I forgot the game had no PR's as well.

[Equinox]

Yeah, um... That wasn't supposed to be a losing bet.

I'm not going to go back on my word, as I suspect I'm now going to be scrutinized for pushing that Furcolow lynch. If the two of you who are town decide that I need to be eliminated as a suspect, please do so. I'd rather not be taken into LyLo if it's not Thor665, and as of right now, I have no bleepin' idea, as there are a couple of things that are bothering me and I'm just running back and forth in the thread checking them.

Just let me get my say in before I hang, and I'm a happy townie.

It's not I Am Innocent, by the way; the slip I cited from Dry-fit earlier is, in my mind, strong enough evidence that I Am Innocent really is innocent.

Thor665, since I'm not quite there yet, can you tell me what changed in your read of my slot between posts 1219 and 1290, and what led you to your self-vote in 1290?

Benmage, can you explain the following quote, please?

I don't think Percy would kill one of the few players who supported him.

Damnit, why does that have to make sense...Okay so Sotty called thor scum..I never like the Nikspot, I just couldn't imagine my buddy Nik replacing out on a scum role.

[Equinox]

*sigh*

THIS GAME HURTS MY BRAIN. (Lately, it seems all the games I'm in do that. Time to quit for real, methinks.)

I looked at the Dry-fit quote again, and then I realized that Oso said, paraphrased, "I don't think what IAI did was all that anti-town" before Dry-fit quoted it to ask Oso about why he didn't see IAI as anti-town. That sends me back to the drawing board for IAI, but I can't see IAI bombing himself the way he did early Day 1 with this game and this player list (metagame reason). Bah, dammit. I still think IAI is town. Any other possibility breaks my brain.

I'm still getting that gut town read off Benmage.

...and from where I'm reading right now (page 26, now commence the compliments for my play as replacement), Thor665 just came in, so I'm thinking that I may get the answer to my question to Thor665 in a few hours... or a day, depending on how much I can get done before I implode. Now that I've dumped the note-taking practice, I'm reading much faster now, if that's any comfort to anybody but myself.

Someone remind me to look at why Percy was so difficult to lynch. Maybe something is in there? NK analysis definitely points to someone keeping Percy and this set of players around long enough to get Percy lynched at that stage of the game.

[Equinox]

I don't know, the entire thing? I quoted it, after all.

[Equinox]

Well, you wrote it, so of course it would make sense to you.

Thanks for answering. I was going to follow up with a question about Nikanor's meta, but then I realized the answer to that probably didn't matter.

Hmm...

Screw it.

VOTE: Thor665

See posts 1453-1454.

[Equinox]

OMG YES

[Equinox]

I'm a little sick, but I'll write this up quick.

Get well soon, Zachrulez!

[Equinox]

This was a fun game to read and play a bit.

I'm surprised the town EV for this is 39%. Someone mentioned somewhere in 60 pages that this was slightly town-favored, and I was inclined to agree... but then again, we did take several days to find Thor665.

I'm going through another one of my jaded indecisive WIFOM paralysis phases.

I read this while I was in the middle of one of these phases, and it made me chuckle because it was such a perfect description.

It makes me squirm everytime I read "lynch me if I'm wrong". I get the tactic, but it's just so arrogant.

Funny thing is, for all the times I've tried it, I've never been right.

I probably shouldn't do it anymore. >_>

[Equinox]

Thanks for modding, Zachrulez! Also, thank you for the invite, Sotty7, even though I didn't respond to it right away.

You and Equinox are free to withdraw your noms...I won't be (too) offended!

No way. I saw your record recently, and I still think you deserve it.

Probably just need more games as scum so people have a better feel for my meta, really.

Stop being so obvtown and we won't be suspicious of you come Day 6.

Seriously, though, you played well here, and I wouldn't have pegged you as scum if I didn't have stronger town reads on my hands.

Oh, and Benmage? Here's your new avatar.

The mental image of Benmage looking at his new avatar made my day.