PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[xvart]

I see you drivin' round town with the title I earned and I'm like

Fuck You, Fuck You

!

Ooooohh... Bus Driver crumbz????

1)

Did you fully understand how the draft system operated?

2)

Why did you choose the numbers you chose?

3)

Do you think it is likelier that scum chose unique X numbers, or doubled up on at least one of their choices?

1. I understood how the first number worked, but I didn't really understand how the second number worked.
   
2. I chose the numbers I did because I looked back at PYPIII and saw that the first numbers 10 and 11 were second and third in selection, so I picked 11 to emulate that in hopes of getting near the top. I picked 7 because I didn't really know how the second number worked so I just went with the 11,7 that the third person to pick in PYPIII picked.
   
3. I really don't know.

VOTE: Guderian Jealousy!

xvart.

[xvart]

2 I just chose two numbers around the midway point, got around the area in the draft I wanted actually

You

wanted

to be towards the bottom?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: llama

xvart.

[xvart]

(by the way, what was the point of the fruit vendor? it seems to do nothing)

a. it's fun.
b. it's a trackable role.

What makes that worthy of a vote?

Well... the game is called Pick you Power. The novelty of this game is that you get to... wait for it... pick your power. Someone who signed up for pick your power and

wanted

to be at the bottom of the list signed up for the wrong game. Either that, or has other motives; and by other motives I mean

scum

motives. Seriously, did anyone in this game want to be the last to pick their role?

Pomegranate is town!

Scum can't not submit a role?

He probably just didn't want to be a target which he would be if he was higher up - unless he is scum in which case he is trying to cover up his mistake with LIES and even worse ACCEPTANCE.

Nice fence sitting, but I'll respond the portion where you assume he is town. There is a term that gets used with people that want to avoid suspicion: Scum.

xvart and Fate are the most active vote-wise - with 2 votes each, which isn't really enough to tell anything yet seeing as we are only just coming out of RVS.

So why make this comment if you can't tell anything from it? Are you just hoping that someone else will pick up this subtle suspicion and run with it?

As for the other tell/not tell it is only writing from an objective viewpoint at this point - we don't have enough to go on yet. Why bother to write it down then? So that we can refer back to it later at a future date.

So you are hoping something that is irrelevant now will become relevant later?

There is something in the people voting Guderian IMO, but there isn't enough for certainty (although I guess there never is in Mafia)

Yes, you said the something in the people voting Guderian was jealousy. Is jealousy a legitimate scumtell?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: slowsilver

I'd be happy with a lynch of llama or slowsilver. Llama's not so subtle bus is... not so subtle.

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh xvart. I had such high hopes for you fellow survivor buddy.

How could you.... how...could you...

Don't worry. We shall return to glory soon.

Well... the game is called Pick you Power. The novelty of this game is that you get to... wait for it... pick your power. Someone who signed up for pick your power and wanted to be at the bottom of the list signed up for the wrong game.

Either that, or has other motives; and by other motives I mean scum motives.

Seriously, did anyone in this game want to be the last to pick their role?

Please elaborate on the bolded. What scum motives? Why would scum want to be lower on the list any more than town?

Okay. Let me try this again. This is PICK YOUR POWER. A game where we all get to PICK OUR POWER. Even if someone wanted to be at the bottom of the list, that means he/she wanted to pick after scum, allowing scum to pick some power roles before him/her. And my concern is not that someone might prefer VT to PRs but it is such an interesting statement about landing in the list where llama wanted to be.

Llama

- can you go into more detail about why you picked the numbers and the decision making process to land you where you wanted to be? Did you want to be dead last? Or somewhere near the bottom? Why specifically did you want to be located where you are?

Pomegranate is town!

Scum can't not submit a role?

Unvote

VOTE: xvart

^ If you're looking for scum on the slowsilver wagon, it's here, btw.

Am I scum for my comment to DGB or the other things you mentioned?

Here's an interesting stat from the last two PYP games. Of the 7 players who have landed unique numbers in the draft, 4 of them have been scum.

Do you mean completely unique or unique to other scum? Because I don't see how scum could play to have unique numbers since they can't predict what individual town members are going to pick.

Anywhose I agree about the increased likelyhood of a scum in the top 4. I like hooplas reasoning to exclude chk. I'd also want to rule out Guideran. I while I see scum going for top picks I don't see them desiring cop. And going 1,1 seems like and all or nothing move.

Why is cop the number one pick across the board? Wouldn't scum want vig? Role cop? And maybe scum could want cop to prevent town from having it.

I also absolutely hate wanting to introduce Wifom to Pomegrantes claim of did not sumbit a role. (In fact the way you posted strikes me as more of the "hey, do not clear a player because of some stupid technical thing" rather then the she is lying about not submitting a choice) Also the fact that you quoted DGB to refute her, rather than quote Pom to refute the motivation of the actual comment makes me think you are more interested in preventing a town read then critizing the player for their comment.

I wasn't refuting Pom's claim or motivation at all. I was questioning DBGs town read of Pom for something anyone could have done regardless of alignment. I'm trying to preventing a town read? That is laughable considering the stability and solidness of the town read to begin with.

Hoopla

- generally speaking, when scum pick numbers, do you think they pick to get roles or to prevent roles from being picked?

Sure, there's a bunch of reasons for one scum to go for 1,1 or something similar. My post was dispelling the logic that scum would come out and go 'HEY I SUBMITTED MY NUMBERS, AND CHANGED THEM BECAUSE I GOT A SCUM ROLE AND MY BUDDIES TOLD ME TO DO IT'. I wasn't saying there aren't any good reasons as scum to go 1,1.

But he obviously didn't say "MY BUDDIES TOLD ME TO DO IT," and I don't think you can discount someone being scum based on an innocuous comment.

Not willing to change my vote yet. It is also kinda close to lynch threshold (too lazy to do an actual count, but, its high) and a couple people have not posted yet.

Kind of close to lynch threshold? On who? The person you are voting or the person's wagon you are considering switching to? We need 12 votes and I doubt anyone even has seven votes yet.

There is absolutely no pro-town reason for pointing this out.

xvart+5

There is no bus driver role to pick from, so I was either making a joke or an idiot.

(For those who are unaware, I have recently decided to rescale my points system so that the numbers become bigger. A 5 is now equivalent to a former 2 or 3. It's just that because I've gotten more skeptical about scumtells over time, my scores have tended to be compressed between 50 and 65, so I have begun to rescale in all my new games)

I really don't know.

Nobody said you knew. What do you think is more likely?

Well... I can see the value in doing it either way, but I think it would depend on the scum team membership and how much time they actually spent coordinating and whether or not they thought that it would be beneficial to subvert suspicion by having two people pick identical numbers.

He probably just didn't want to be a target which he would be if he was higher up - unless he is scum in which case he is trying to cover up his mistake with LIES and even worse ACCEPTANCE.

Nice fence sitting, but I'll respond the portion where you assume he is town. There is a term that gets used with people that want to avoid suspicion: Scum.

Queue the beginning of a crappily reasoned "Let me on the bandwagon" post by xvart.

How on earth is the above fence-sitting? The evidence available didn't point one way or the other, so the basis for suspicion wasn't made out/

Instead of fence sitting I should have said playing both sides of the fence. He's "defending" (used loosely) against my comment while at the same time acknowledging exactly what I was saying as being plausible. And why was he answering for llama?

xvart and Fate are the most active vote-wise - with 2 votes each, which isn't really enough to tell anything yet seeing as we are only just coming out of RVS.

So why make this comment if you can't tell anything from it? Are you just hoping that someone else will pick up this subtle suspicion and run with it?

What "subtle suspicion"? I hate BW analysis, but for the people who don't, it makes sense to keep tabs on BWing.

It isn't even BW analysis. He is talking about how Fate and I had both cast two votes (at the time) with no follow up to why this is important. Maybe subtle suspicion isn't the way you read it, but I am a more cynical reader and comments like this look to me like he is saying "these two people are voting more than anyone else. Since I'm not going to comment on this, does anyone else think anything of this?"

There is something in the people voting Guderian IMO, but there isn't enough for certainty (although I guess there never is in Mafia)

Yes, you said the something in the people voting Guderian was jealousy. Is jealousy a legitimate scumtell?

Better question. Where did he say that jealousy is a scumtell.

You're right. He didn't. I was trying to get him to expand on his lack of commentary about his posted observations in that post.

xvart.

[xvart]

Okay

Vote: xvart

, here is why:

The moment that there is a whiff of a bandwagon developing xvart is right onto it. In the first instance he voted Guderian - immediately after Fate made his vote on the scummy arrogance of Guderian saying that he was jealous. In the second instance he jumped the Llama wagon, six posts after he made his first. His reasoning was that since Llama got near the bottom and didn't seem to mind it Llama was therefore scum - hmm... Then he jumped onto my bandwagon with the already de-constructed post #95 (credits due to Vollkan for the deconstruction #140.)

A whiff of a bandwagon? I was the second vote on Guderian, so there was no bandwagon of which to get a whiff. The same is true of llama. I was the second vote. So your allegation that I am wagon hopping is unfounded.

I HATE being strong power roles. Anyone who has ever played with me before knows this fact, I would rather draw vanilla then cop, vig, doctor, etc. Having night actions to in depth consider messes with my ability to play a good game, almost every time I am unhappy with my play, I was non-vanilla. I hoped for the bottom 1/3 of the list, so I could take a role that I can still use, but also enjoy a bit more. If I was at the top of the list, I might be able to take a decent role out of scum hands
but I also would not really have much fun. I know this game is pick your power, but what if I dont like many powers available?

But how did you strategically pick your numbers so you would be at the bottom?

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

Exactly my point. A desire to be at the bottom of the list is inherently anti-town because it gives the opportunity to be higher on the list. But anti town is not scummy; which is why I want to know how he picked his numbers to achieve a bottom of the barrel draft slot.

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

But this is a direct contradiction. Why not go for a high number and pick one of the roles you would like to be, and if already selected, then win for the VT assignment?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

Llama or slowsilver. These are the wagons we should be pushing. It's win-win.

Benmage - you whole premise is based on the weak doc being in town's hands, which is something we don't necessarily know.

xvart.

[xvart]

He's saying what he thinks is likely, but acknowledging that what you say is possible. Why is that so bad?

Because he doesn't say anything at all in that post. Nothing of any sort of substance. It's just a fluff comment: "yes this is likely, yes

And there is usually nothing scummy about "answering for other people", "defending", etc.

What business does SlowSilver have speculating on llama's internal motivations for wanting to be at the bottom of the list?

Thats why he is my vote. Your weak bus of ben is noted...

lol. I didn't even say Benmage was scum. I think it is a bad plan to follow but I don't think he is scum for suggesting it.

hahahahahahahahaha

You're scum

VOTE: xvart

Welcome to the game. Have you finished page three yet?

I provided a stat earlier about the previous PYP's. Of the 7 players that ended up getting unique numbers in the draft (in previous games), 4 of them have been scum. This is because scum actively choosing to spread across five different X numbers gives them a greater chance of winning/doing better than average in the draft compared to a random townie. An individual scumbag knows 4 other numbers NOT to pick, as any double with any other player sends your hurtling down the draft order. Imagine if a townie knew the X number of 4 random other players in the game - that'd be a massive advantage for them. Well, scum have 5 of those players. It is no wonder that scum do far better than random in the draft when choosing five different numbers.

Most of us seem convinced that scum chose differing numbers, but don't understand this belief means that scum are very likely in a higher density than random in the top parts of the draft. I know I can't speak for everyone else, but I choose to take that objective inflation of lynch percentages, rather than relying on subjective tells to figure out who the scum are, because people have a horrible track record of getting that right.

Seriously, we have four players in this game with unique numbers. It's unfathomable to me that these are all town players from a sheer probabilistic standpoint, due to scum having such better chances of landing a unique number. The wagons on other players lower in the draft are a waste of time (at least on D1 and maybe D2).

Hoopla - I asked before and maybe I'm not completely grasping what you are saying, but we can't go forward with scum having unique X numbers because we don't have any scum flips. If someone flips scum and has 9 as their X number, I can see the value of discussing whether or not the other scum members do not have 9 as their X number. Scum picking unique numbers with respect to their scum buddies is vastly different from someone picking a unique X number with respect to the entire town, because scum can't know what everyone else is going to pick. So lynching unique X numbers now is not responsible.

Um, the draft is a two stage process. One, you submit your numbers, wait for the order of the draft to be announced based on those numbers. Then once that is done, stage two begins: choosing a role. These are individual events. Scum picking numbers to get roles/prevent roles makes no sense.

Yeah, you're right. It made more sense in my head when I was thinking it.

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm a VT.

Is it a good idea for me to claim what my predecessor tried for

, since scum could figure out that one of the people above me must have that role?

I like investigative roles, but figured cop would already be taken.

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE: gandalf

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh wow. I was just thinking, trying to remember why I had picked it, and I completely forgot that I replaced in. >.>

Epic fail. Really.

You forgot you didn't pick a role in the thirty minutes since you said "[your] predecessor picked Gunsmith."? I don't think we even need to hear from the other two people above him.

xvart.

[xvart]

Because you started sweating under the pressure and claimed to have done something you didn't ever do.

xvart.

[xvart]

Catching up on some stuff pre-Gandalf claim.

Parama's 226 brings up a very compelling point about Guderian and his lack of voting while calling for wagoning and calling out scum teams.

I really don't like Guderian's 231 suggesting the top four people claim. His first comment about Gandalf being defensive is a stretch in my opinion.

I was calling for the bandwagon on myself because it seemed thats where everyones mind lay. All those people voting me, well to me, it is quite funny.

This was not calling for a bandwagon on yourself. You were calling for a bandwagon on Andy.

@All: Do you think the unique numbers this game mostly consist of scum? Why?

Maybe I'm dense or maybe I missed where someone explained how scum having unique numbers is a legitimate course for finding scum. Scum could only know what their buddies picked but wouldn't know what the town would pick, so searching for scum via this method seems to be completely misguided and arbitrarily random.

I hardly pushed for claims on everyone, only the four people with unique numbers, and if worst came to worst, sacrificing 2 town for 2 scum in a 17 town v 5 scum game is a fantastic ratio.

And the four people most likely to have a role, and a more powerful role at that.

What business does SlowSilver have speculating on llama's internal motivations for wanting to be at the bottom of the list?

If you think a particular tell is invalid, there's normally no reason not to speak up.

Unless you think there is a good reason to wait and see how the other player responds.

What is the tell that SlowSilver was pushing? He didn't have a tell, he didn't call me scummy for my comment, he just posted a reason someone other than himself might have for something he did not do and would not know for certainty.

As for my llama suspicion I'm willing to bench it. I guess it comes down to that I just don't understand wanting to be at the bottom of the list, especially when he said there were roles he would want to be. I'm a fan of being VT but in this game I find that line of thinking extremely strange.

xvart.

[xvart]

Also to that 'wagoning', I was responding to DrippingGoofball, as you can see about my comment about the fruit vendor. Maybe its not at first obvious, but its what I was saying. The two quotes were jutxaposed to show Fate the error of his ways.

Wait just a second. You responding to DGB in which called for a wagon on yourself by referencing Benmage's vote on Andy? Please explain this timeline and thought process in greater detail, because it makes no sense to me.

Now, knowing this, Do you think I am blatantly lying about what I was saying, or are you deliberately trying to paint me in a way that you hope others will find scummy to force a mislynch?

lol. I'm trying to figure out if you are lying, but your clarification to the above question will be helpful in determining this.

By "tell" I meant Llama's action being scummy. To rephrase, if SS didn't think it was scummy, it's reasonable for him to say so. There's also the obvious argument that it's sometimes better to let people respond for themselves, but in practice most people don't adhere to that strictly.

Generally speaking, yes. But he doesn't have a clue about what he was assuming.

Do you consider the points valid or not?

It isn't valid because you have no comparison sample except the two people you gave points to.

Wow lol. And if I was scum, fakeclaiming, what results could you have gotten out of the top four that would have changed your perception of me at all? If one of them HAD claimed GS, I could still be scum who tried for GS. Or just a lucky bastard. Or they could be my scumbuddy. And if none of them had, the real GS could have just been semi-intelligent and realized that claiming GS did ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING FOR TOWN.

Or, if you were scum, your predecessor could have picked Gunsmith and been denied, which you would know.

Well then I'll say that xvart doesn't tend to be a joker in mafia games, at least from my experience (no offense to xvart).

None taken.

Gandalf is scum via this. Play this game matches up pretty well to play in this game. Not to mention what xvart pointed out.

Can you briefly describe the similarities?

---

Sooooo... Can we stop discussing the number theory and actually... you know... scum hunt. We have people committing some serious scumtells and they are just getting a pass because all of this number nonsense with no substance to give it any girth.

xvart.

[xvart]

Names. I don't give too much care to the "serious scumtells" - we'll need an explicit list of names.

Well: Gandalf has lied when put on the spot; Gurdian appears to be backpedaling about his calling for a wagon while not having a vote (but I suppose in fairness I should wait for him to clarify).

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh. Well I'd say those two are getting plenty of attention right now.

They were getting plenty of attention. Gurdian is still getting a moderate amount of attention but it is mostly getting brushed to the side underneath all this number talk. It reminds me of Faraday's Game of Thrones mafia where the scum suggested a name claim and the town spent the entire discussing the virtues and problems of name claiming. We didn't get anything done, it was a wasted day, and we lost. I will find the number discussion much more relevant once we have a few flips.

Which should we lynch first?

The person I am voting for: Gandalf. Although Gurdian is getting close to the lying territory also, as outlined below.

there are two parts to that post. THE FIRST is the two quotes juxtaposed. THE SECOND is in response to DGB bwing me, and I believe I said this could be seen by the fact I was also asking her what in gods name the fruit vendor was. It was a sarcastic comment because at that time everyone and their grandmother was hoping on my wagon.

This is your whole post in its entirety. Believe it can be broken down into three parts, colored differently.

I don't see his name on the playerlist, so quite frankly I don't know why you are calling for votes on someone not in the game.

bwuh?

Vote Andrius Kitoari's replacement. This is a real vote.

I agree, more wagoning.

(by the way, what was the point of the fruit vendor? it seems to do nothing)

The green is your comments to DBG at the fruit vendor. The Orange is your comment calling for a bandwagon (on yourself?). The blue I believe is irrelevant to this discussion. The blue comment seems to be unrelated to the orange comment, at least from what you have just said. How were you calling for a bandwagon on yourself with the orange comment?

With all that in mind, can you explain the discrepancy in the following two posts? One you say that the DBG comment and the wagon are related. In the second you say that are separate.

Also to that 'wagoning', I was responding to DrippingGoofball, as you can see about my comment about the fruit vendor. Maybe its not at first obvious, but its what I was saying. The two quotes were jutxaposed to show Fate the error of his ways.

there are two parts to that post. THE FIRST is the two quotes juxtaposed. THE SECOND is in response to DGB bwing me, and I believe I said this could be seen by the fact I was also asking her what in gods name the fruit vendor was. It was a sarcastic comment because at that time everyone and their grandmother was hoping on my wagon.

xvart.

[xvart]

Wow, you guys are by far the most dense group of folks I've had the unpleasure to play with. None of you have come up with half of a good reason as to why I'm scum other than the fact that I was absent, which I've typed until my fingers bled THANKSGIVING AND A FOLLOWING SICKNESS. CHECK MY META, RETARDS. I SAID THE SAME FUCKING THING IN ALL FOUR GAMES I WAS IN, WAS AWAY FROM ALL FOUR GAMES I WAS IN, AND DIDN'T FEEL THE NEED TO SAY "OH DERPA DERP I'M SICK V/LA BLAHBLAH OTHERDUMBSHIT." THE WHOLE FUCKING LOT OF YOU IS STUPID.

SERIOUSLY. LYNCH ME AND WATCH AS I LAUGH AT YOUR UTTER STUPIDITY.

Wow. Just... wow.

This following bit is in response to that quote above because my bandwagon was careening out of control.

I agree, more wagoning. [ON ME]

(by the way, what was the point of the fruit vendor? it seems to do nothing)

How was your bandwagon careening out of control with the sum total of two votes on it? Regardless, if you thought your bandwagon was careening out of control why would you encourage a bandwagon on yourself?

I dont even see what the scum motivation in that post was at all.

It wasn't that there was scum motivation to your comment, but rather that you got called out on something that is scumtastic (encouraging bandwagons while not voting yourself) and then you concocted this elaborate justification that frankly makes no sense and I really have to suspend all belief to follow it. Seriously, your explanation only makes sense if you transpose several posts about very unrelated things and leap in logic that everyone knew you were calling for votes on your own bandwagon, and even then it is still nearly impossible to believe.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guderian

I'm not sure why its so hard to get votes on either of these two. These last couple of days have dissolved into lots of semi-posts and appearances. Im not sure what to make of it all.

It's so hard because you and gandalf are so obviously scum.

xvart.

[xvart]

My apologies, I was getting mixed up in following through with why your post makes any sense from a town perspective. Calling for votes and bandwagons while not voting yourself is scummy and the motivation was that you are trying to get people lynched while not participating in the voting process. You said your post was calling for votes on yourself because your bandwagon was careening out of control since it had two votes. Seriously, trying to decipher your meaning in your explanation posts is close to impossible with the fake quotes where you type out "Guderian said:" and then just paste the text form quotes and insert text and reference other quotes. I'm guessing that I'm the only person following up on this because it is extremely difficult to follow your backpedaling, i.e. the leaps of logic.

Anyways, what I was meaning to say was that I latched onto you not necessarily because of your initial comment (because honestly I didn't even catch it until Prana or whoever brought it up) but because your response to my inquiry about it is ultra dodgy.

xvart.

[xvart]

I think this puts the count at 10.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gandalf

Guderian tomorrow.

xvart.

[xvart]

Did all the people pushing Benmage or Le Cupcake state why they don't think gandalf is lying scum? Or why their case on Benmage/Le Cupcake is better than someone lying and justifying an action that he didn't do when put under pressure?

I want everyone's reads on these 5 players. No other explanation needed besides your read. In fact, if you say anything more than "town" or "scum" then I will punch you through your computer screen.

Le Cupcake - no read
Benmage - no read
slowsilver - scum city
inHimshallibe - slight scum

, but I can't remember why. I remember reading something that pinged my scumdar but I don't remember what it is now. It might be in the next few pages so I'll post it when I get to it.

Meh, must have been before. I'll read the ISO tonight to see if I can job my memory.
Andrius - no read

Also, I'm not a fan of Parama clearing Guderian because two scum reads are voting for him. After some flips, maybe. But now? It seems a little premature, especially since the case on Guderian is stronger than those two scum reads of his.

*****************Does anyone think theres a role better than cop to pick from?(Note vig is every other night).

Yes. Vig. I could care less if the scum took cop because cop doesn't benefit them at all, it just prevents town from having the role. We could rely on good old fashion scum hunting to find scum in the event we don't have a cop. Vig on the other hand, regardless of being every other night, is much more significant and has greater ramifications for scum to have. Not to mention they could keep vigging scummy town and get a pseudo clear that way.

Although I enjoy the pictorial evidence of a cupcake swinging a knife and gun, I still don't see the actual evidence. Did someone post this somewhere? Did I just forget it?

p.s. Still looking through the 26 pages to get those five reads. Most prominently, I think Andrius was put in the five to see if people are paying attention as he's been gone all game, more or less. I couldn't tell you if that's any sort of tell as I've had problems conflict IRL myself.

I was thinking the experiment was more of a gut reaction exercise. And the justification about IRL conflicts is just weird.

I'm really not sure how the speculation on the number 1 pick (in this case mine) role is really moving this game along. It seems incredibly arbitrary. Why not talk about 2,3,4,5 etc etc?

Why do we need to be talking about any role speculation and who should've taken what role if they were pro-est of all pros in Benmages PRO TOWNsville?

also, what do people make of slowsilvers multiple FOS but no vote?

Scum city.

---

I guess that I don't want a Guderian lynch yet

Unvote

Vote: Benmage

wait.... did you ever talk about wanting a Guderian lynch?

No, no I didn't. Which is why I am voting for Benmage, you are more town than Benmage is and you two are the only ones who we are realistically going to lynch,

slowsilver's posts here are very strange. I feel like she almost just got caught like gandalf in a backpedal moment. I really don't see why she would say she didn't want a Guderian lynch

yet

. If Guderian is more town and she has never commented on Guderian why would she want a lynch eventually? And why is gandalf not a likely lynch target right now?

[gandalf is] more town than Benmage is and [these] two are the only ones who we are realistically going to lynch

- p.s. I don't buy the VT bit. Oldest trick in the scumbook. Waiting to claim what you

woulashouldacoulda

doesn't exactly un-incriminate you, either.

What the hell? So what is a VT supposed to claim? While a VT claim does not clear him in anyway of being scum, someone who claims VT isn't more scummy than before the claim unless there is proof of lies that contradict that claim.

Somewhat, sort of, maybe V/LA through Saturday

. I will be around and will have the ability to post, but my commitment level will be get exponentially lower as the week progresses because it is finals week and move out week at the University I work out so I am getting swamped as the days progress. I'm going to try and get a good post in tonight with some of the commentary that has occurred.

xvart.

[xvart]

OOOOOHHH. I forgot how much I love instant night.

Darn Gandalf, that triple a.d.d. business had me convinced

Claimed scum.

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm still alive. I highly doubt I was jailkept. Hoop's town.

Why did you not protect Guderian?

Hoopla - you originally opened D2 with the assumption that either Guderian or Volkkan was scum. Why vote outside of those two? I completely support the SlowSilver vote, but was the interactions with the gandalf wagon enough to off set the 50:50 shot based on the numbers theory?

I cant believe chk picked supersaint with the number 3 pick. Not sure what he was trying to do there. Not sure why he was night killed because he was looking pretty sketchy at end of day. Not being groundbreaking here, but I figured he was vigged, and scum got hosed on their night kill.

I would have serious apprehension about a vig killing someone in the top three on the basis of looking pretty sketchy, so I don't believe that is the case. I think it is very likely that the scum team was trying to kill the Gunsmith or another top role choice. This speculation is scummy on those premises.

The rest of this post are mild suspicions that don't really have much substance behind them other than casting face value suspicion anywhere but him.

VOTE: Guderian

[xvart]

I read Hoopla's 807 again and it makes sense for the question I was asking. I'm starting to dig the scum motivations number theory stuff now that we have a flip.

Anyone voting slowsilver gets scumpoints. You people are just lynching the always-scummy players it seems. And I'm pretty damn sure silver is town this game.

Have you ever played with SlowSilver before? Do you know how many games she's played here? The answers are "no" and "three, including this one". Did you really meta read her or have you had conversations about her with other people and how she is always scummy?

inHim:

why did you not protect Guderian last night?

I'm down with the quad lynch. SlowSilver has 8 votes by my count, so this will make 9 with two more to hammer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SlowSilver

[xvart]

I'm here. I thought I posted a limited posting through tomorrow. Bee-Tee-Dubs: I am really looking forward to reading the scum QT post game.

I called out gandalf scum for his antics, have some trust in my reads, fate!

Calling out gandalf this game doesn't score you a lot of town points.

If we're to believe Gandalf was the highest scum pick, which I do, we have to look at the possible numbers scum could have chosen for their whole team. It's a reasonably safe assumption to assume one is in the 6's, but other than that, Ellibereth town means that scum would have chosen 3 of their X numbers over 10, unless Guderian is scum, there are two scum in the 6's, or Llama is the inverter. I don't think any of those situations are likely.

But what about Guderian and gandalf scum team trying to clear out the investigation roles? Is that unlikely? That would explain gandalf going for Gunsmith but not getting it. I still think Guderian is scum, but am willing to defer to the number crunching judgment.

What's the vote count? I'll vote Cupcake once we get a vote count.

[xvart]

You don't need a VC to vote scum.

Yeah, but I knew there were a lot of votes and didn't want to hammer without a claim or information provided if they had any. Missed the votecount above.

Well whether Cupcake is scum Even Night vig or Roleblocker seems irrelevant.

Unvote:

Xvart, claim.

I am VT, I picked even night vig, so llama is lying if he is counter claiming Cupcake since he is lower in the draft order than me.

[xvart]

Wait, I think I misread Llama's post. I thought he was counterclaiming the even night vig.

[xvart]

Fate - well, if it is confined to your list then it would have to be Jack. But I don't see how it couldn't be lower than that.

DBG - I picked even night because I figured odd night would be more desirable to get the first shot off and I was going to prevent it from going into lower scum hands. I've been fairly vocal about scum wanting vig.

And really, DBG. Your argument on me being scum for wanting even night vig is terrible, as everything you said about me applies to Cupcake, too; they are only two slots above me so I really wasn't too far from getting it.

And you really think I am scum who called out gandalf on his lie and I was pushing SlowSilver D1?

[xvart]

And you really think I am scum who called out gandalf on his lie and I was pushing SlowSilver D1?

Jack did the same.

Only harder and faster

Harder and faster? Really? Citations please.

Xvart show me where you commented on the Parama kill with your knowledge of the even night vig being above you and whether it was a scum kill or town kill

I didn't comment on the kill at all and I didn't publicly speculate on the second night vig's motives. Why would I? What benefit would it be when the people above me weren't narrowed down to the degree that they are now? Also, a scum vig is going to play as town from my perspective so when it comes to massclaim or individual claim time they don't get heat for killing the claimed doctor, cop, whatever role or super pro-town so-and-so, so speculation along that juncture wasn't/isn't really important to me. I could see Parama being killed from a town perspective, and by that token, could also be a scum kill.

[xvart]

Fate - I'm not asking you why you think Jack is town, but you said he was less likely to be bussing gandalf and slowsilver than me because he was coming on to them harder and stronger, which isn't true (from my perspective) unless I missed some big post of Jack's that wasn't number speculation. I'm not even convinced that Jack is scum so I am going to wait for him to respond, as I don't see the necessity of the RBer being in the small group that you named off.

You snipped that quote pretty hard about the vig kill speculation. With two deaths last night I knew the vig was above me but what point would it serve to be like "HMMMM... So someone above me is the vig for sure... I'll go ahead and spout off information for the scum to narrow down who the vig is if that vig isn't scum." The parama kill isn't conclusive enough for me to be like "OMG 100% scum" kill, for the reasons I explained that you cut out. If the two kills had been obvtown's I would have given that information in a heartbeat.

[xvart]

Because the people BELOW Prana are confirmed town/SOMEONE I TRACKED N1.

There I fuckin said it.

I tracked someone N1 below Prana, it WASNT Ellie. I just used Ellie's neighborization claim that he gave me in his QT so I could fake a result and keep my real one hidden.

PoE says the roleblocker is between xvart and Jack. No I'm not claiming what or who I tracked N1 because they are certainly a town PR.

There we go. My apologies on being stubborn but I wasn't seeing what you were seeing and I wasn't expecting you to have double backed on your double back results. In Fate I trust.

VOTE: Jack

[xvart]

So are we waiting on Vollkan to confirm that he sent an action?

[xvart]

I want to hear Guderian's results before Fate gives all of his.

[xvart]

Or before anyone else gives theirs.

[xvart]

Gurerian is lying. He would not have any shots left.

Vote: Guderian

[xvart]

No. Mod was asked about this too. Because the action failed night one, I got to keep it and use it again.

Also, quote from sign ups.

What happens if a limited shot role:
-Are themselves roleblocked/jailkeeped?
a.) Shot is NOT used up.

Thank you.

Okay. I thought the kill using up an action was the same for RB/JK/etc.

Anyways, you say you've been on vacation for two weeks. This game started over two weeks ago. Did you ever claim any V/LA?

Also, those responses seem a little canned to me, like they were locked and loaded to be fired back. For example, why did you not just tell Fate to read this thread? He wasn't questioning the legitimacy of your claim to be V/LA. He obviously missed your original thread. Why did you auto direct him to other threads?

[xvart]

When did you leave for vacation?

[xvart]

I'll send in watch report now then.

Answer my questions.

Vanilla to Nieghborizer. Really pissed off I didnt get that role, hell I designed and ran a whole mini theme based on it.

That's what happens when you desire to be at the bottom of the selection list. I find the emotion in this post a little off considering your past cares for roles, but I will have to go back and look at what you specifically said.

[xvart]

Gud - When did you leave?

[xvart]

Oh, again. Would not be surprised if Xvart is scum. Play reminds me of aCoK..where he was scum.

Do I think it's more likely in the 6's yes...do I think xvart has played a scummy game nonetheless and do i think they could've doubled up on the 11's....Yes x2.

We seem to have the 6's on lockdown in the next day or so....If we only get 1 scum there, which I am assuming will be the minimum, than I feel strongly that the next spot to look would be xvart.

You've said my play in this game reminds you of CoK a couple times now. You are going to have to elaborate a little more because I don't see how they even remotely resemble each other simply because of the game type and structure. Furthermore, if you think it is because I bussed one of my partners D1 hard in CoK you should also remember that I forgot that dana was my partner in that game D1. If the only comparison you are making is that I bussed hard D1 you should also note that every single scum member except Jack I was all over D1 in this game.

Gud - it is relevant to this game, and as soon as you tell me the date you left for vacation I will tell you why. And no, your slot has not offended me.

[xvart]

What specific date?

[xvart]

Because a week and a half from your announcement put your departure right around the time of the end of day one, so I was seeing if you were around when the deadline hit and if you had submitted a target for N1 which would have been contrary to what you said about your brother submitting all actions. Just out of curiosity, you don't know when you left? Sometime between the 3rd and the 5th?

[xvart]

Fate - you said earlier that the inverter role was not in scum hands. What was the purpose of this comment?

[xvart]

To fuck with scum.

Such as yourself who apparently knows FOR REAL whether scum have it or not.
VOTE: Xvart

Case closed. Your Jackvote was some textbook bussing too

You are swinging at ghosts, Fate. I never said I knew there was an Inverter in play nor could you read any such thing into my post. There was discussion about the Inverter on that page and the viability of it being in the game theorized by Hoopla. It reminded me that you said a while back that you said the Inverter was not in scum hands or something like that. Now that everyone has claimed and since I wanted you to explain the purpose of that comment. Was it to fish out some reaction from a scum member who might have had it?

[xvart]

When did Guderian get to be cleared town? Was that in the number theorizing somewhere?

[xvart]

Good game everyone. In all honesty I didn't really enjoy it too much (and no offense to SpyreX, I'm glad I played) other than the player list as I felt like the game didn't really rely on scumhunting that much as the game felt pretty mechanical. I mean seriously, I was pulling my hair out with gandalf seeming like he was going to get off the hook. I wonder if the draft process was modified somehow that would change the methodical nature of the number theory. I know some people really dig that but from my perspective I felt like I was just waiting for orders all game.

Thanks, SpyreX for modding. Despite my comments here I am glad I played.

Oh, and Guderian, I know I already said this but wanted to clarify further that I wasn't trying to call you a liar about your brother and the whole vacation thing, but in one place you said you were gone two weeks and one place you said 1.5 weeks and the 1.5 put you on the deadline and with the instant night mechanic I thought the possibility existed that I might catch you where you would have had to submit an action for it to go through but claimed your brother did it. It wasn't a personal attack on your credibility or your honesty (as a human).

[xvart]

Gud - I appreciate that. I always hate the line of inquiry regarding people's personal lives and hate questioning along those lines since it's distasteful and there is no way to confirm it either way, but I felt okay with the line of questioning because I was questioning along the lines of you being present before your brother took over. I also know that one has to be careful when going down the roads of real life because I know there have been times (under different circumstances) that I would have just snapped if anyone questioned the legitimacy of my RL claims (which is why I usually just leave it out until endgame).

[xvart]

So Hoopla, what would you think about a scum team not coordinating their number selection pre game and only coordinating the role picking after the draft was announced? Do you think that would have had any merit? In this game, I don't think it would have hurt since the scum was obliterated, but would any natural advantage to planning out number selection be negated by completely being random occurrence?