DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[RedCoyote]

Kat, read the rules! You'll get killed for making threats like that.

/confirm

[RedCoyote]

And Jack!

[RedCoyote]

So is that what Jack considers as patriotic in this game, hm?

[RedCoyote]

What the hell? how did that get there? I posted this, let's see if it works this time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znEePD1nJxo

That's more like it.

And chess, don't let the name fool you. Coyote's are indigenous to North America anyways. The red just means I'm

red-blooded

, as in a red-blooded, gun-toating, and God-fearing American here to kick some commie ass, old school style.

[RedCoyote]

I'd love to hear what all the 1.0 vets have to say about their views.

I don't know what Kitoari is getting at with this "choose someone who is pro-town" business. It actually sounds kind of fishy to me. There's no reason to try and out think the choice system. The town simply doesn't have the benefit of a QT, so there's no way around broadcasting any pre-planning for the entire world to see. The best way to do this is just to keep your choices to yourself for the time being. Be sure to follow Percy's tips, however, when creating a preference list. Don't worry about choosing active/passive/silo abilities, you want to pick straight from the ability list itself and put them in a clear ordered list for the Mod to follow. Percy's example list is actually pretty good, but you should alter it to match your playstyle. If you like investigative roles, then Fighter or Espionage would be a good place to start a list, but if you know you draw in nightkills or think you may draw nukes, then perhaps you should look at Airbase or Fallout Shelter as major choices. Don't try to out think this, just be yourself. There's no wrong answer (with the exception of Failsafe which, again, I agree with Percy on. I would not recommend choosing this at all. The potential negative results far outweigh the positive. You'd be better off just picking an anti-ballistic missile silo).

[RedCoyote]

Unless it's sanctioned by the playerbase, no-one should nuke. If you disagree, then say why, kthx.

Of course then the nukes risk being influenced by scum. Nukes are out in the open, so it's not like anyone will be able to "getaway" with nuking someone. There are already proper red flags in place to prevent total nuclear warfare. There are both stop measures as well as the Failsafe power. There's no reason why anyone needs to "sanction" nuking, unless, obviously, we are approaching the end of the game.

---

The town should understand each ability and choose the list based on the best strategy for the town and their playstyle as they see it. I don't like how this post is trying to guide votes too specifically and your advice seems to lack overall integrity.

What are you taking about? I'm guiding votes? I was about as broad as I could possibly be short of saying everyone go hog wild. Are you just making all these posts to hear yourself talk? Why do you need five posts in a row?

Are you aware that a vig that refuses to be guided by the town is lynchable?

I'm with chesskid and IS here. There's no reason to claim you have a nuclear silo. Percy, I assumed, was thinking further down the line towards the endgame. At that point it obviously becomes much more acceptable to start planning out how kills should go and who has the arsenal to do it. It seems like you're wanting to push it farther with this statement though. Nukes and Vig shots work very differently. We don't necessarily need a massclaim immediately when we hit DEFCON 1.

---

I do love the "scum-hunting" that is going on btw. This is quite possibly the easiest phase to feign town since there is no consequence, and everyone is jumping all over the one person who sticks out like a sore thumb.

Do you mean JC's crusading? He's the only one I really see who could be classified as "jumping all over" anyone.

---

It's not hard, judge the person on their actions. So if someone comes out and nukes someone obvtown, saying 'welp thought he was scum hehehehe' isn't gonna make much difference.

If I have a nuke I'll use it as I see fit.

Bingo. Plus town points for this. Like I said above. All nukes are broadcast to everyone. There's no hiding it. Everyone here is perfectly capable of seeing the causality of all nuclear activity, and, thus, should theoretically be able to objectively assess whether or not it is something to be seen as scummy or not.

---

Fate, if you nuke me, I'm nuking you right back. Just a heads up.

Alright, gentlemen, let's not go crazy. This is exactly the kind of crap that JC, Percy, and Vas are scared of happening.

---

And you have to hand it to Fate -- he was smooth as silk in 3P lylo -- he took that win by force.

Anything that Fate says that's not in ALL CAPS is probably him lying.

---

Don't remind me how useless this DEFCON 5 is gameplay wise except for 5 being a sexy odd number and AGM liking his flavor.

Speak for yourself. I enjoyed reading it last game and I enjoy reading it this game. I've got a good beat on many of the players here already. If you think it's useless, why are you posting?

---

I'm fully aware of how it works. Even limited information (that sure as hell has the chance to become total information) is a good thing. A real good thing.

Spyrex is right here. Toogeloo and chesskid, you guys aren't thinking long-term. Even if you just rule someone out for one of the mafia teams, you don't know where the future will take the game. What if the team you ruled out ends up shooting the other mafia team? Then you effectively have a clear player on your hands. Sure, it's not as strong as a full-fledged Cop role, but any piece of information is helpful.

However, if neither of you want this power, by all means, don't put it on your list. I wouldn't go around saying that no American should take it though.

---

Scum is chatting in their qt about what to take and is less bored than we are.

Do you think this means that they are participating more in the game thread? Eh? That was a big idea in the last game.

It turned out to be a red herring though.

---

What a HORRIBLE summary of what is happening with me and chess.

I don't even know what to make of that last paragraph it reads forced as fucking hell with the parantheses and all this boss nonesense

Can you blame him? I agree with you and I agree with Spyrex about this Toogeloo/chesskid/dana thing, but you feel the need to beat the dead horse all day and all night with... I guess you have 40-50 posts at this point? For someone who sees this all as "useless", you sure aren't acting like it.

If you stopped posting right here and let all the crazy things that everyone else say roll off your back, I'd defend you... but you just can't help it, can you?

---

For the last time, I am not stating "don't put cop on your list."

chesskid did though.

---

Beware of just following anyone's list. We all need to really think for ourselves ultimately before looking at anyone else's list.

Now that I'm thinking about it, why did you come at me for "guiding votes" and not Percy given that this is your point of view?

---

This thread makes me think so much of America. It's all bipartisanship in here. The next step would be to find a common ground between the two ideas of Law vs. Chaos.

Clearly the middle ground is exactly what me and AV are talking about. Nukes are to be used independently up unto the point where it no longer becomes feasible for the town not the mass claim. Once we've reached the point where we need to lay all the cards on the table, then we'll benefit much more for submitting all nuclear decisions to the greater community, because we can map out with a greater probability hitting potential scum.

[RedCoyote]

This sounds overly scum aware.

My joke, a joke based entirely on the unrelated topic of my name, a name that I chose several years before this game started and before I even joined this website, is "overly scum aware"? You know there's one thing I'll hate until the day I stop playing this game, and it's players who think that they have to find something sinister in every ISO post another player makes in order to have a valid point. It's absolutely pointless, and it does nothing except make you look weak and reachy.

When you say stuff like, "Hm, maybe you're making points that are too simple", that's borderline, but at least I can see that as a valid attack. I would retort with the fact that the game just started and I was responding to a basic question like, "what is your view on the game having played in the first one", but at least I could say, hey, JC is, at the very least, paying attention here. We may not see eye to eye, but here's a guy who's being objective and not letting anything go that he sees could be sketchy.

...But for you to go off on this random tangent about how light-hearted banter between me and chess is "overly scum aware", probably the weakest buzz phrase every in the history of scumhunting, then you've just shot out all creditability you may have otherwise had.

Why is sub left completely off of your analysis??

Because it was clearly an example. I was stating my opinion on how players should individually setup their specific lists. If they like to be in charge of Vig-like shots, they should obviously go for the Sub as a high priorty. Just like if they want an Cop/Tracker like role, they should look to investigative powers. etc.

I mean, I don't get where the disconnect is. I'm not telling SocioPath to pick X and Toogeloo to pick Y, I'm saying that each player should assess their own strengths and pick their lists accordingly. What's the problem?

I think you are scum.

Big surprise there, seeing as how every post I made, coincidentally, has been horribly scummy.

---

Ever since RedC made me feel bad about myself after Rapture Mafia I've become inclined to listen to him when he says to cool off.

I mean, you can do what you want. I'm just scratching my head as to why you're getting yourself so worked up on the one hand and then calling this stage useless on the other.

[RedCoyote]

It pains me that its going to be like a month before I get to nuke me some commie scum. Maybe we can lynch Jed before then, but im sure his wet diaper communist posse wont be having none of that.

Do you think he's mostly likely to be scum at this point?

[RedCoyote]

I keep checking this thread thinking I should make a post, but you people keep rehashing the same silly arguments over and over.

[RedCoyote]

Toogeloo, Jed, can y'all try to organize your thoughts a bit more clearly? I already got on Fate about it and he took a step back, but both of you two have, if anything, amped it up. I appreciate activity, but there's no reason for overkill. Toogeloo, you have 88 posts, and JC has a whopping 137. There's no reason for one player in a 20 player game to have nearly a quarter of the game's posts by himself. If anything just take it as general considerate gameplay advice. I'm not trying to lecture, just explaining that this is definitely putting me off from the game a bit. I'm used to inflated activity given that I average about a post a day, so when even I have to take a step back, it's getting out of hand. Controversial opinions or no, you don't have to make several consecutive posts. That's just overdoing it. It's not all JC's doing, or Toogeloo's, but you two are the worst offenders. Just take a step back before you hit submit and ask yourself, one, if it really requires a separate post to be said right then and there, and two, if you can't start combining your thoughts more clearly.

I'm really starting to think IS is laying it on too thick. I think either Kitorai or Kat mentioned this already, and I agree with whoever did. I don't know if that necessarily means scum (Spyrex loves it when I use qualifiers), but it's definitely leaving a negative impression right now. I mean, how many times do I have to hear, "wow can't wait for nukes! I'ma nukin' right away!" before it's too many? It was cute at first, but it's also getting annoying and try-hardish.

[RedCoyote]

I have no intention of revealing my reads about any player, thank you.

What is this nonsense?

I'm just gonna go in the other room and prepare my "I told you so" party for after Dana flips town.

What is

this

nonsense?

I'm not liking either of these statements, gentlemen. Toogeloo, is that some sort of temporary position, or are you actually advocating going through the game without telling us who you think is scummy and who isn't? Am I reading it out of context? I don't understand. chess, how is it possible for you to have such a firm town read on someone so early into the game? I have a couple of inklings, but there's no one here I would be even close to calling a for sure American.

[RedCoyote]

That's what I figured. I'm not reading the game closely enough and it's really killing me to not have this game caught up on. I've been bitching about it, but it really is my fault ultimately for not staying on top of things. I'm going to be out of town this coming weekend

and

next weekend, but there's no way I'm replacing out. I've got a test this afternoon (Tuesday) and a little shopping to do, but I will make a nice post over the past ten pages or so before I leave on Thursday. I'll let the Mod know and I'll put it in my signature, but I submitted my list a while back so don't worry about that.

[RedCoyote]

Test.

Please note, I may have to break this post up into two. I'm having issues with the website. It keeps saying, "Page not available".

[RedCoyote]

Going back in time a little bit, everyone. I'll probably have to do it again given my V/LA times, but it won't be near as long. These are my notes on the game. Given that some of you cannot control yourselves, post-wise, this was necessary. You don't have to read all of it, although you are welcome to. If you asked me a question in the past 15 pages, it's answered in one of these spoiler sections. It would be nice if you address anything that I ask you specifically in here though.

Without further ado:

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you PART 1

There is no good reason to launch independent of a wagon with votes. Period.

I just don't think I agree with this. What about the Sub? I mean, if an American gets a Sub, should he just not use it? There are a lot of players in this game, JC.

For the same reason it doesn't work in other Mafia games, it won't work here. Even if the person does nuke back on a town nuke it still is rich with information from the wagon.

But this is a good thing.

---

Also, it would be somewhat interesting for someone to declare they have a nuke and go through 2 weeks of discussion only for him to say he doesn't have said nuke and just wanted to see how the discussion went.

What in the name of all that is holy, loving, and sacred, is this supposed to mean? Your ideas frighten and confuse me, and my natural reaction is to say that you are that much scummier for suggesting them. This sounds like some form of nuclear reaction fishing gone wild. You putting it out here like this in the middle of nowhere is something I will remember.

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OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

I agree with your argument, but I just don't agree that it fits here.

---

Liking AV again this game (Post 454)

I agree with Toogeloo here (post 463)

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Are you aware that there are 10 power roles?

But you should understand that not everyone might be able to make the best use of all the power roles. Like Percy concluded, the Fail Safe is probably not a great roll for town. If someone is nuking you, statistically they have better odds of being Americans than anything else. Scum are probably going to be exceptionally careful about nuking someone in this game.

That said, I do kind of agree with you that most of the powers should probably be selected before a silo, but if players think they'll have more luck with a silo (which actually is a pretty decent power given that it works as either a one-shot kill or as a one-nuke protection). So, I mean, in conclusions, the silo

is

a valid power role consideration.

---

So, what would I do as scum here? Just this. Control as much as possible (note: this is also part of the problem with "THE LIST" but I'll get there later).

I can agree with this, yeah.

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Post 505 and 508 are both good Toogeloo posting. I'm really liking our panda at this point.

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You DIDNT post BakuTown clarification relaxed and observant Town post.

So your argument is really, "he didn't post what I thought he should, so he's scum"?

When you read this post your reaction wasn't:
"defending dana? I wasn't defending dana.

[...]

You reaction WAS INSTEAD:
"I never defended dana!

Yep. It is. This is crap, Fate. This is you injecting some predetermined context into what Toogeloo should do.

Fate: I know what you're going to say!
Toogeloo: No you don't, I think this!
Fate: WTF YOU ARE SCUM THEN!

Youre fucking quote snipping.

Everyone does. Townies have to scumhunt, but that doesn't mean they know everyone thinks they're town. They can't get lynched either. They have to make sure they stay on top of things and get people to understand them.

Anyways, you're blowing this entirely out of proportion and playing your hand way too quickly. If there was any connection between Toogeloo and dana, they're aware you're onto them now.

YOU EITHER COMMENT ON IT, ELABORATE ON WHY YOU WANTED MY SPYREX READ, COMMENT ON MY SPYREX READ, GIVE ME SOME THOUGHTS ON DANA AND TOOG, OR STAY THE FUCK OUT OF IT.

He's commenting on a completely different topic.

---

Your refusal to admit the potential impact of your list is also troubling.

This is a silly stance, truly. It's also hypocritical. You attached yourself to Percy's famous post as soon as you saw it, and I don't remember you criticizing him for his list, yet, when me or Toogeloo elaborate on suggestions for choosing powers, you seem fixated on it.

---

It's DEFCON 4... I got nothing but interaction reads atm. The only "buddying" that's happened is those who feel we should commune on our Nuke use, and those who want to be rebels.

For what it's worth, I know it. This is Fate playing to his character rather than actually keeping a critical eye on the game, which suggests to me that he's trying to make townies see boogeymen where there are no boogeymen.

---

I'll let him respond to that when he gets back in two days 9.9 But that's quite the dodge.

What are you talking about let him respond? He's talking about your assessment, not Percy's. There's no dodging here, it's a completely valid argument. "Suggestive lists" aren't scummy. I mean, you'd have to be pretty thick to think that if I told everyone that Fighter was a good pick that that necessarily means that I'm scum trying to lead people to Fighter and away from another power. Who's to say which power is more useful in X's hands rather than Y's? It's WIFOM and it's pointless.

But the fact that you didn't have a problem when Percy did the same thing earlier is what's most troubling.

So ya, I guess you've succeeded in lessening my town view of him.

This doesn't sound particularly sincere. Percy's list wasn't exactly hard to miss. I mean, frankly, he made two big, sweeping positions in that post. One was about community-controlled nukes, and the other was about choosing powers. It's hard for me to believe that you missed that, honestly.

For some reason this second example in my head = your first one as well. That one got quoted so many times in a row it stuck in my head. Thanks.

Eh, I don't buy it. You're moving a mile a minute in your posts. That's not my problem and it's not Toogeloo's problem. You're out of control because you're throwing silly arguments across the board without putting any weight behind them. Toogeloo calls you on it and all you can give him is that you can't keep track of it all? Nah.

RC seemed to warm up to the "choose cop first" idea as well.

No, I mean, this isn't right. I wish I could check the thread 30 times a day like you both do so I could've responded to this earlier. You saw my post because you responded to it. The Fighter was merely an example. I said that if you want an investigative role because you've been successful with Cop or Tracker like roles, then that should be near the top of your list.

Look, the point is you are being overly general and losing track of everything thanks in part to your hectic style but also thansk in part to the fact that you want to smear people for giving valid opinions on the power system. The motivation for the latter part is likely scum-oriented.

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Glad you could join us there, komrade bobsnox.

Why aren't any of the other lurkers comrades?

---

Why is it that sanctioning nuking is a bad thing? I think getting as many people involved in the nuking process and limiting the chaos a nuke-filled game promises is a good idea. Is there any reason why we shouldn't sanction nuking?

Because rational players will act rational and irrational players will act irrational. I doubt there will be much cross interference. I don't think we'll be seeing Percy nuking AV, or vice versa, anytime soon. Both of you have different points of view, but both of you are also able to hold a discussion without needing to enter launch codes.

---

Bunny way to oversimplify the case, what the fucks the matter with you people?

No one wants to read 10 pages of the same back and forth between you, JC, and Toogeloo.

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you PART 2"

PS I will try to do a wall post instead of inidividual replies to important stuff since you brough it up RC.

I'd appreciate it, honestly. Not everyone likes it, but I think it's easier to go with. I'd rather see 2 pages of long posts that interweve and discuss multiple different arguments than I would see 10 pages where people write a couple of sentences every few minutes, someone leaves, someone joins, and it all just goes back and forth. It's harder to get a feel for a person when he responds to one specific person and issue and nothing else. A good example is the exchange between Fate and Toogeloo. If you read just that section of the game, you'd think Fate is completely sold on Toogeloo as scum. I'll bet you, however, if we fast forward ten pages from this point, Fate won't be voting Toogeloo and, instead, he'll be acting just as "intense" (I say intense in quotes because we all know it's an act) about someone else over something else.

If you fail to get a PR you get Silo so there is no need to put it on your list and there is no competition for it. You can set it in any mode you want once you receive it.

But the silo is a power in and of itself. I have a feeling you don't grasp this. The silo isn't a vanilla townie role, it has a real function in this game. It isn't necessarily the most worthless thing here, not by a long shot. To you it may be, but I could easily see people putting a silo at the top of their list simply because it allows them to both kill and/or be protected from a nuke on any given day. That's a good thing to have.

---

That's not a good comparison. I like MoI town. Not so much Baku scum.

Am I just to assume you're going to be a mouthpiece for Fate this game, gandalf?

---

Btw is it worth it to double-nuke people, so that even if they are in defensive mode, they still die? I feel like it is, since it would halve the number of nukes, and ensure that all nuked people died.

Please don't ignore my questions, chess. I mean, I get why you would ignore talking to Fate or JC, but I'm more grounded, chess. I'm not going to take you out to the shed and beat you to death with posts. I want to know why you're aligning yourself with dana outside of the fact that 3 or 4 people have labeled dana as scum (3 or 4 people in a 20 person game, mind you).

I got more than that, RedCoyote.

Town:(like, forealz)
Dana
bobsnox (played with him on another site)
AV

those are like 100%/

What's 100% mean, though? Does it mean you're never changing your mind or does it mean you are, at the moment, comfortable they are town.

---

Btw, I got the full DEFCON game. Creepy music.

Isn't it great? I don't think I've ever played a game so atmospheric. Turn the lights off, plug in a good pair of headphones, and crank up the A/C (it's winter for most of us here except for Vas and Percy, so just turn down the heat), and all of a sudden you're at ground control. It's really quite a fun game.

---

I didn't notice the change. Sub is much easier to catch now.

How do you figure? It looks, if anything, more difficult to catch. In the last game you only got one "hidden" nuke, but in this game it looks like all the nukes are hidden.

---

As far as I see Jed is being called scum for being loud and lioudly saying things that are loud because he has to stick to said loudness and can't back dwon because he's already chosen his "fake townie mask" or some shit.

In other words Jed is either your buddy or he's Percy's. I think Jed has a big connection to one of the more "respectable" players in this game (I don't mean this as a slight, I'm just trying to make a point).

No, but, although I don't think Spyrex has done a great job selling this lynch, JC should be a major consideration for the first lynch given his hypocritical arguments and constant reaching.

HOW COULD I FORGET THE BEST TOWN PLAY IS TO TAKE THE EXPRESS TRAIN TO NUKETOWN?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JED

Okay, I might concede the above. I want to see where you go from here though.

---

Utr Lurkers

Bobsnox
Sociopath
Jack
Bunny
Internet Stranger

Could you all please post your analysis of DEFCON 5 & 4 because we have very little in the way of content to judge your play on...

Why did you leave out Baby? Oversight?

@Red Coyote: You said that lurking was a red herring in Defcon 1 (because lurking was seen as a scum tell due to scum typing in their QT), could you elaborate on that?

I think you're paying more attention to posts than you let on, which is definitely a reason why I've got my eye on you.

It was a red herring because it turned out not really being true. I mean, I guess, to an extent, Papa Zito was guilty of this, but Hito and SP were both mostly on top of things during this period. I think Enigma originally brought the idea up, and he was town. I latched onto it as scum because it mostly brought heat on lurkers who were town. I think both Zhero and Doombunny caught a little flak from it. Zhero's lynch was a real tipping point in the game, and, if I may, I think it was brilliantly executed and planned by us out over the course of the entire game.

---

Sure, why not.

unvote vote: Jed

I haven't seen much real contribution from him.

...what in the hell...

---

I don't like his pro-town parroting from DEFCON 5 and 4, and his activity was minimal at best beyond that.

I love how American you are. I'm feeling really good about you and AV right now. I'm also really put off by Baby.

---

I thought I say Jed name, but it was Katsuki. Therefore my vote has no reason to stand.

Could you explain this?

---

His list is fine and he said he was coming with more when he has time and I believe him because he has like 150 posts, your suspicion sucks which makes you more likely scum.

You have little room to talk. Jack no posting = Jack as scum or Jack as an agitator.

I'm not saying you're lurking, I just think all players should unite in providing shared content so that we can all prosper equally. Everyone has a responsibility to post according to his ability to, because we have a right to get as much material as we need to get a read from.

Lol. Okay, I admit I love this post.

And you are right in the sense that the way JC, Toogeloo, and Fate have been dominating the discussion is completely overshadowing at least five different players who no one has a right to say they can really have any good reads on.

"Could you all please post your analysis of DEFCON 5 & 4 because

we have very little in the way of content

to judge your play on..."--Jed cooper

"BUT INTERNET STRANGER HAS 35 POSTS, HE'S THE 6TH HIGHEST IN THE GAME"--spyrex

Jack's got you here, Spyrex.

---

Pound for pound, IS has more content than most.

This is the second time you've come to bat for IS. I'm not feeling it, man. It feels completely artificial, especially in light of how Jack just framed it. Just because you want IS to be scum doesn't make it so. IS has given reads, I'll give you that much, but JC has clearly done more by any reasonable measure.

---

but if jed is scum, he's scum _with_ gandalf, right?

I doubt it. What makes you think this, though?

---

After the past few days, I am as confident as I can be that dana, IS, and VV are all town.

You were already pushing your luck voting Fate (even though everyone knows you and him aren't good buddies), but this is really asking for a lashing. I'll give you Vas, he's okay. IS, well, I'm not so sure about. dana is really just not worth saving. He may be town, you know, but he's past salvation here. People who are coming out in support of dana after his horrible vote are really risking being labeled as scum trying to earn points post-flip.

---

Oh btw horrible thought.
If scum get battleship and failsafe
the failsafe guy can't be killed without two town deaths(or a lynch+nuke) unless the battleship dies first

I don't think a lynch triggers a nuke on a Fail Safe power owner.

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you PART 3"

Post 745 by AV is good, as usual.

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SPEAKING OF CHESSKID, AS OF PRESS TIME THIS CLOWN WENT FROM VOTING TOOGELOO TO SHEEPING TOOGELEOO WITH NOT SO MUCH AS A "I AGREE HEHEHE" ALSO NOTE THAT EARLIER HE HAD CONCEDED TO NOT BEING ABLE TO READ ME.

So there is a reason to read your posts after all. This one little gem I hadn't noticed. Props to you for pointing this out, Fate.

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Post 750 is a good Toogeloo post. The elephant in the room, of course, is dana's vote. I'd be willing to absolutely go with you on your dana read if not for that vote. You ignored it here, which is absolutely telling and really kills your creditablity, I'm afraid.

---

confirm vote: Internet Stranger

What is your definition of a confirm vote? There are two separate, very different definitions.

---

Failsafe is a nuke. Any reason to believe a pro-town looking scum wouldn't try to nuke a scummy looking townie?

Why didn't you address this when Percy first brought up the perils of Fail Safe for townies? Statistically the Fail Safe will hurt a fellow townie far before it would hurt a scum member. This is not good, Toogeloo.

---

Answer: So I will try. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to waste any more time on a game where people are stupid enough to lynch me like this. If you want to lynch someone else, go ahead, and I will be an active participant in this game. Day 1's not my thing anyway.

Last time you gave this pissy attitude you flipped town. I'm not going to defend you though. You know your vote was crap, and you're not even going to try and defend it.

---

Make people claim their submitted lists before they die.

What's the point of all this? Why are you trying to outthink the Mod and the system? Why are you rolefishing? Just stop, because you are looking worse and worse to me.

Okay, so, in summary.

Normally I would put a Scumscale here, but there's just too many living players. It would be too cluttered and unusuable. AV is good, Toogeloo was pretty good, but he's been really slipping. If you've played with me before, you know I have no problems with lynches. Although dana is probably town, there's no excuse for his vote. Anyone who's willing to ignore his vote is likely playing to the idea that it will make them look good. On the same token, it might be the thinking that dana is an easy lynch, and, therefore, a good thing to jump on. Still, I'm less inclined to persecute those on the dana wagon. dana never thinks he's wrong and just completely closes off the second someone suspects him. He's not worth defending because he's pouty and won't give us the information that the town needs to grow and succeed from a townie who is being voted. This is all assuming he is town, by the way, which could be wrong for all I know.

My top three suspects at the moment are JC, Fate, and Baby. I'd be most willing to go in one of these directions, but I'm open to other arguments.

JC has consistently been all over the place this game. I shouldn't need to tell anyone (except, perhaps, Jack) that he's been fairly unprincipled in the light of a loud minority of players getting under his skin. He had a clear, valid position, he was pressured, and he relented. This could mean he's trying to appease others. This could mean he had a change of heart. It's more likely, based on my read, that it's the former. JC perceived community-controlled nukes as a losing battle and gave up on it. Moreover, he had invested early in how town he thought Percy was, only to be pushed back by Toogeloo when JC hypocritically called Toogeloo out over a powers list he made. Moreover, JC, in general, has just been oversaturating the game with posts. He doesn't want to be taken the wrong way about anything. This heightened sense of awareness is more likely a scum trait than a town one. IS and Fate have given him some guff over the game, but nothing to justify such a swift change in attitude, I think.

Fate's over-the-top attitude comes as a surprise to no one. He seemingly does this regardless of his role alignment. I think what separates him here is the fact that he's kind of been making it up as he goes along. His argument against Toogeloo was over a dozen posts of nothing. There was no case. It had something to do with what he though Toogeloo "should have" said, if he were town. No one has really ran with it, even Fate jumped at the chance to nail dana only a few pages later. It felt so completely artificial and concocted that it was worthy of me keeping my eye on Fate throughout the remainder of the game I hadn't read. I guess the other big red flag for me was when DEFCON 3 opened up. Spyrex asked Fate to vote JC and Fate resisted. I kind of struck me that Fate and JC has been a weird combination. Although they both have a large number of posts, neither of them have really came at one another. I don't like the relationship between these two at all. My read on JC thus affects my read of Fate and vice versa. If one of these two players is lynched, I'll probably end up changing how I think about the other one.

As far as Baby goes, he's kind of my lurker lynch. I like what Toogeloo has had to say about him, and Fate's defense of Baby has been a bit unsettling. There's just not much to say about Baby. Baby strikes me as a more active player who has been sitting on the sidelines. When he does make a post, he mimics protown positions of others and tries to blend in with the crowd. I don't think this is what Babytown would necessarily do in this game. There's not much to say here that Toogeloo didn't already say when he called him out. We have about 6 lurkers here, you know, so you can take your pick. bobsnox actually took on IS, which is probably something a scum player wouldn't bother doing as a lurker. Kat has given reads and tried to elaborate on them. Some of them are too easy, but they are varied and unique. I feel like SP has engaged the discussion a bit more than Baby has. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head, but Baby definitely strikes me as worse than all of them.

In regards to the dropped QT posts. I'm currently analyzing them. I'd like Percy to give us his opinion, because he was great at picking up meanings to them. He was more accurate than even he thought he was last game.

Mod: Do we know which scum team these dropped posts are from?

(No, the faction of the dropped message is not revealed. --AGM)

Vote: Jed Cooper

[RedCoyote]

I placed a vote on Faraday since I thought he voted for Jed then went to Dana for no reason. This to me was bandwagoning. In fact, Faraday didn't vote Jed but voted Kitsuki (or w/e sorry im impatience right not) then Dana. That isn't as bad as what I thought previously, although a little suspicious.

This sounds fakish. I don't blame you for not wanting to comb over all the details in my posts, but you could've put more substance into this, the only question I asked of you. Fine, so you misread Faraday. What about other players?

---

if I missed antyhig adressed at me lemme know

No, that's fine. I still don't really get your percentage thing, but I'll accept it because it's better than nothing.

---

If I have to go through and do a post-by-post on those posts I will. But, I really shouldn't. Because, just go ahead and scan that ISO and get back to me with this after really looking.

Because cut out the white noise and ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NUKES and you'll have (and this is a guess) less posts than IS.

I think this argument is too miniscule to really push on, but let me just say that while I think both of them clearly have a lot of rehashing, JC has more helpful (helpful in the sense of being able to get a clear read of his player slot) posts than IS does.

---

For now,

vote: Bunnylover

I think I like this vote, but I don't like that you didn't expand on it. If you are starting a new wagon, you should be ready to sell it. We've already got three big vote getters, we don't need a random vote tacked on somewhere else unless it's fought for.

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So I'm scummy for calling IS out for an OMGUS FoS? Interesting...

[...]

I'm voting for IS - a dude you think is scummy. Keep that in mind.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Are you threatening Fate not to vote you? I do not like this post at all, and I'm glad gandalf and AV agree with me.

---

This is a good place to park my vote:

Why park your vote? Why not explain it and sell the wagon? Eh, I don't really like this post either.

---

RC loves giving massive chunks of words as scum.
That is all I'll say on that for now.

I do it on both sides.

---

Also the if I missed something let me know was because RCs wall was organized like shit, and I skimmed it for what was adressed at me.
Nice try

Just as a sidenote, this is unrelated to the game itself, but why do you think that? I put the post numbers, I listed the posts chronologically, and I separated between addressing different players. How could I have organized it better? And what does "Nice try" mean?

---

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

Well, I don't really get the point of this post. Why are you slighting Fate for things he hasn't done yet? It seems like every post I've been reading is getting me angry. This isn't scumhunting.

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vote for jed is scummy enough by itself, really.

Come off it. I don't see you rushing to his defense. Why don't you actually stick your neck out for once instead of relying on your quirky comments and lame, predictable votes?

---

Again I agree with not-SpyreX. I'm crediting his latter argument to frustration than his former argument to disingenuous scumlogic.

Maybe. The fact of the matter is, he had a clear, valid position, and he let a vocal minority talk him out of it. We all agree on this. If I can't sell you on the idea that he changed his mind out of convenience, can I at least get you on board with abstract that it was easier for him to backpedal and try to appease his attackers than to stand up to their onslaught and continue to fight for what he thought was the better strategy?

And RedCoyote said he liked this post! Why?!

It looks as though we have a serious difference in regards to how we're reading JC's motiviations. I do not see his over-the-top posting as an innocent, non-issue. I do not think controlling the nukes has much bearing on the alignment (perhaps it does, but I'm not going to pretend like I could try and sift through the WIFOM inherent in the issue). I do think, however, that taking one radical positon and then gradually sliding to the other side of the scale in the way JC did is peculiar. Peculiar enough to justify a vote? Most definitely.

We agree on the dana thing though. I was more focused on the fact that AV and I see JC in similar ways.

This is not only not true, but you're making it sound like you should get town points for nuking carelessly.

You're reading too much into this, but, more than that, it's really taken out of context. This comment had to do with the Fail Safe power and why it would be more likely to hit town. I didn't mean for it to be read as though town players would be more careless about nuking. It was purely a statistical argument.

---

Probably not since you seem to want to fault me for wanting prods and people to provide content. You seem to love to lurk, so I guess I could just assume you defend that playstyle in others since it would be hypocritical of you to claim otherwise.

What happened to you? Why are you taking up these dead end, crappy arguments? I mean, honestly, do you stand by this post?

---

I am here.
I have nothing of value to give as of this moment.

Useless.

---

You started out with a herpaderpa BabySPice vote, who is still MIA, a tentative agreement with the Jed wagon who "apparently" didn't need any more votes, and then divulged into FateFateFateFateFate-> Which I would call TUNNELING,

This is a valid point. This was something that really struck me about Toogeloo, so, if I was to vote him, this would be the reason, above all else (including the last two pages).

I'm not going to vote him just yet though, because I can think of at least four people I'd rather see bite the bullet. Additionally, I'd really, really like to have JC make another post (and, if possible, Baby as well).

[RedCoyote]

Ugh... What a crap way of getting out of trouble. Just drop the entire game after single-handedly dominating the discussion for more than two weeks.

I'd really prefer us not to have to lynch one of these two. If you would've came to me earlier I'd have jumped on Fate in a second, but I'm just not as comfortable with Toogeloo as I once was. Toogeloo, are you sure you want to make a stand here?

[RedCoyote]

The first part is me being frustrated that JC is replacing out without giving us anything.

In regards to Toogeloo, I'm facing a dilemma:

What in the name of all that is holy, loving, and sacred, is [Toogeloo's post 442] supposed to mean? Your ideas frighten and confuse me, and my natural reaction is to say that you are that much scummier for suggesting them. This sounds like some form of nuclear reaction fishing gone wild. You putting it out here like this in the middle of nowhere is something I will remember.

Why didn't you address this when Percy first brought up the perils of Fail Safe for townies? Statistically the Fail Safe will hurt a fellow townie far before it would hurt a scum member. [Your post 764] is not good, Toogeloo.

Well, I don't really get the point of [Toogeloo's post 849]. Why are you slighting Fate for things he hasn't done yet? It seems like every post I've been reading is getting me angry. This isn't scumhunting.

What happened to [Toogeloo as of his post 916]? Why are you taking up these dead end, crappy arguments? I mean, honestly, do you stand by this post?

[Fate's post 927] is a valid point. This was something that really struck me about Toogeloo, so, if I was to vote him, this would be the reason, above all else (including the last two pages).

I've documented it for your convenience. Maybe you don't think a lot has changed in the past 8 pages, but I do. I don't fly by the seat of my pants, Fate. This is a serious decision.

[RedCoyote]

What a sucker... now I shall work on my true plans at communist domination.

[RedCoyote]

Err, ignore that. That was for a different game.

[RedCoyote]

Sigh.

[RedCoyote]

RedCoyote/Bunnylover; why no Toog vote? If he's town, what reason at all would he have to claim scum? I see that Fate takes a lot out of you but come on, if he's town that's just a stupid thing to do. I mean, as scum its a stupid thing to do but hey, we get a scumlynch D1 so I'm not complaining.

AV, the reason I didn't vote is because it wasn't too hard to guess that this would happen. Like dana said, it was fairly easy to read it as though he was being sarcastic. In a real way it looks as though he wanted to be through with the game, but, you know, replacing out would've been nice.

I mean, I could've went on a tear trying to tell people not to vote him, but I don't know this guy's motivations. I didn't really want him lynched, and I didn't really want Fate lynched. I'm not trying to shirk responsibility, but you, chess, Snake, and dana are lying to yourselves if y'all are going to try and act as though he was some sort of free lynch, no questions asked.

I've seen it happen from the first day I got here, and I'll keep seeing it until the day I stop playing. People log on too frequently, they burn themselves out, and it sucks. Toogeloo was constantly logging on, getting increasingly tired of having to defend himself, and got tired of it. The same thing happened to JC in a different way. Instead of pacing himself, he was constantly checking the thread and throwing down post after post, so much so that virtually everyone wanted a piece of him. I'm not saying, like, everyone should mimic me and my schedule. (Please don't, actually, because we need people more active than I am to keep the game interesting.) What I am saying is that everyone should pick up on these things, and if any of you four didn't pick up on it, then you need to seriously take a step back. All four of you, rightly or wrongly, are on notice as far as I'm concerned.

[RedCoyote]

Red I'd bet town but you can NEVER NEVER let that kind of business go unchecked.

Therein lies the game itself, my friend. I know your motivations were probably pure based on what I've seen from you so far. It's one thing to say, "I have a line Toogeloo, and you just crossed it. I recommend everyone else vote." It's quite another to say what AV did, and that's, "Hey, RC, why aren't you doing what I'm doing? He set himself up, so I'm not complaining!"

You just know some of these folks were licking their chops over an American who offered himself on a silver platter.

---

Maximum of five people would have KNOWN he was lying (1x Toog, 1x Sub, 3x Chinese scum) and I think people who stayed away from what they KNEW was a mislynch is pretty likely.

It's the town's role to assess motivations, why is this any different? It's an emotional game. People are going to act irrationally. If Player A says, "Lynch me, I'm done with this game", that doesn't necessarily make it an open and shut case, right?

[RedCoyote]

Gandalf's reaction feels fake.

I agree with this, Kat.

---

He didn't say that though. He said "I'm scum."

I don't think that's the end of the story though. You are throwing context completely out of the window here. He was frustrated and participating in an elongated debate with Fate without letting off the gas pedal. I'm not excusing his claim, but I'm not going to sit back and forget about everything Toogeloo had done up until that point either.

I'm not going to vote you over this though, so I'd prefer to drop it.

---

I mostly like Fate's post 1153. There's no way someone can defend dana, at least not someone who was on yesterday's lynch anyways. dana has made two majorly boneheaded moves today. His horrible, horrible JC vote earlier, and his most recent hammer. I, again, cannot, in good conscience, stand in the way of this lynch. IS, Baby, gandalf, and Bunny are all reasonable choices as well, and for Fate to pick them out with some valid arguments shows me that he's scumhunting in earnest. The fact of the matter is, even if Fate is scum, he's probably doing a good job at finding the other scum team for us all.

---

Dude is scum with nothing better to do than OMGUS people (oh bobsnox is voting me?! He must be scum!) and park worthless votes (QED by Fate). Not to mention the ridiculous gungho rhetoric. I thought he was scum yesterday and I haven't been persuaded otherwise.

Useless. You're going to have to sell us better than this, or at least start giving us more. The fact that IS made you wet your pampers is no reason for voting him, and anyone who disputes that this is the actual reason should take the two seconds required to read you in isolation.

---

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the fact that the horse is dead worries me. Suspicions of JC were fleeting the second he stopped posting. Something isn't right about that. Sure, dana and Toogeloo have both put foots in their mouths, but I'm completely sold on this slot as scum. This is a lynch almost everyone in the town can get behind, especially now that Vas is gone. Percy has had objection, and Faraday may not be inclined to go with me, but we can get a Snake lynch through today. I said I cannot defend dana, but that doesn't mean I can't give us a better choice.

Vote: SnakePlissken

[RedCoyote]

RED WHILE I AGREE WITH YOUR NEWSLETTER I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER MILLION PAGE DAY

GIVE ME THIS. PLEASE.

I think both of us feel better about Snakescum than just about anyone else. We can fight to get him lynched today. Are you sure you want to settle for a dana vote?

---

I guess IS has his scumteam trained to OMGUS anyone who suspects them

Cool defense RC

If you think this sarcastic comment is going to buy you points with me, or anyone else, then I think you're in for a bit of a shock. Take a look around, bob. You don't have many friends here. I'm telling you, as bluntly as I possibly can, that you need to step it up if you're town. Right now, I'm very much not sold on either your case or your alignment. Neither of us are are the center of this game, we're both just one of the players. There are other things going on besides you and IS. As much as I think your avatar is really cool, I'm fully prepared at this point to say that you're an acceptable lynch today.

---

- RC, fine. Unfortunately, I think people who flat-out ignored the presence of the claim are likeliest "scum who knew it was a lie", but there's little way of finding out who these people are since everyone who posted acknowledged it in some way.

Well, if you want to push me, that's your prerogative. I'm thinking it's boiling down to a political disagreement between us, especially because, aside from this issue, I think we've been pretty much on the same page all game.

May I ask why you haven't voted yet though?

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American play style?

He's scum because:
- his constant gungho "American" rhetoric seems farcical
- he votes poorly (as Fate pointed out)
- his only response to me has been OMGUS material (which you'll notice he has moderated since I called him out on it)
- his defenders post similar worthless content (Jack, RC) that seems either idiotic, contrived, or a mixture of both

If you actually read this game outside of the little tunnel you constructed, you'd realize that I have no real love for IS. While I like this post better than your previous couple of posts, you're still stuck in this one-track mindset. I'll forgive you somewhat due to the fact that AV asked you a direct question about IS, but even in that question it was obvious he was trying to get you to compare IS to "regular finding scummy" things. In other words, talk about anything that doesn't have to do with IS and your spat with him.

---

3. Why would I try to scumhunt outside of the person I most believe is scum? This is your problem, attacking 3 people at once. This does not help the town, as no one can tell what you really think. Not everyone can be scum, and it's best to be sure about one person.

I disagree with IS in that I don't think dana's answers are particularly convincing. This one especially sounds like something dana just cooked up for this occasion. Um, dana, what do you call your hammer vote? You were making a compromise with that lynch. Toogeloo wasn't the person "you most believe was scum", right? In fact, you claimed that you were sure he was town.

---

Mod

, can we get a vote count, please?

[RedCoyote]

Oh look Fate, its a list of your enemies. Imagine my shock.

This is a good point, Fate. Most of these people have had a beef with you, I think. Although I agree with you on some of those names, I think you owe it to yourself (if you're town) to analyze it a little closer. Then you can share with us who among those you'd just as soon write off as town (even if you write them off like you do bobsnox).

---

Spare me the lectures

I see. That's the attitude you're going to take, is it? Anyone who dares question you or your methods is an IS defender and an elitist scumbag?

---

Forget? You FORGET who your suspects are? HORESSHIT.

I've got to side with Fate on this one, Bunny. I don't think it's as obvious as he makes it out to be (nothing is as obvious as Fate makes it out to be), but little slips like that are real potential for something sinister.

---

Also I voted Chesskid I ._."

Sorry, I see your vote now.

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I will say this could well just be bunny playing bad. I've only played one game here but I can tell how bunny would get trapped by his own play

In other words, "if bunny flips town, don't blame me!"

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I got none of them .

After Toogeloo's comment, I doubt we need people to post lists anymore. Every power is in the game.

---

(additionally I don't understand the chess-hate at all)

Percy has made some good points, but I'm still not really seeing that crucial piece either.

---

If this didn't happen, I hope this vote makes it happen.

Unvote

;

vote: Bunnylover

[RedCoyote]

By my count, mine was the tenth vote.

[RedCoyote]

Excellent work. We had some real patriots on our side with Spyrex, Percy, and Jack especially. I wish I could've been there beside you guys.

gg to our scumteams, especially Baby bobkat (I lol'd when I read this).

Nicely done, Mod. I really enjoyed the flavor.