PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Benmage

[LlamaFluff]

1)

Did you fully understand how the draft system operated?

2)

Why did you choose the numbers you chose?

3)

Do you think it is likelier that scum chose unique X numbers, or doubled up on at least one of their choices?

1 Decently enough
2 I just chose two numbers around the midway point, got around the area in the draft I wanted actually
3 About equal chance. I would be surprised if they double both numbers, or have three people pick the same starting number, but draft numbers arent enough to clear on. I would hedge a bet on no more then two scum have the same X number, but again thats going to just be a WIFOM battle.

We really should wagon ben.

[LlamaFluff]

Vanilla, again????

Bad play, again????

No Ben vote, again????

[LlamaFluff]

Ben is the only one who starts with ben. For those who do not wish to look at the playerlist - Benmage.

Why are you trying to stop me from having even a somewhat happy thanksgiving?

[LlamaFluff]

2 I just chose two numbers around the midway point, got around the area in the draft I wanted actually

You

wanted

to be towards the bottom?

Yes.

Why is that a problem?

Vote Andrius

Kitoari's replacement. This is a real vote.

This is why we should wagon Ben

[LlamaFluff]

Hmm

VOTE: iamausername

Role-fishing isn't good, role-jesting is fine in my books. You're just trying to pass it off as something else.

He isnt role fishing. Check your defninitons. If anyone is fishing its you for the "maybe he took vanilla" statement.

You wanted to be towards the bottom?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: llama

xvart.

He probably just didn't want to be a target which he would be if he was higher up - unless he is scum in which case he is trying to cover up his mistake with LIES and even worse ACCEPTANCE.

So are you trying to say its a tell or not? If you see it as null why are you even commenting on it. This is just allowing you to call it a tell or not as you see it fit later in the game.

Oh and quick statistics: Guderian has the largest bandwagon (obvious really), but as far as I can tell two of those votes have only jealously behind them (or just as likely scum trying to get rid of a powerful role).

Again, is that a scumtell voting him? You again have it set up both ways.

xvart and Fate are the most active vote-wise - with 2 votes each, which isn't really enough to tell anything yet seeing as we are only just coming out of RVS.

One more time, is it a tell or not and why? If not why ever comment on it?

I see that you belive that we are out of the RVS so what are your reads on people? IAU is rolefishing is not a read as I already showed you that its not rolefishing. Who is next most scummy?

unvote
vote slowsilver

We can just wagon Ben tomorrow.

[LlamaFluff]

I think that it IS a scum tell voting Guderian

So gamblers fallacy?

But as I say, there just isn't enough to go on yet.

Sure there is, you said the RVS stage is over, so there has to be something to go on.

[LlamaFluff]

Not Gambler's Fallacy so much as trying to eliminate the opposition

Its gamblers fallacy unless you are saying you

know

that he is town. You are assuming completely ignoring the chance of him being scum defaulting that he picked first so has to be scum.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah Pom just jumped the gun to what I was getting to. His one case is the vote on IAU for the "joke-fishing" thing, everything else is too early to tell except for that people voting for Guardian must be scum because for whatever reason Guard must be town as he picked first. He just is on a weak point, a logical fallacy and possibly even a slip, and fence sitting everything else he can find. Also the fence on me, and when I challenged it he suddenly came to the conclusion that I was town.

[LlamaFluff]

What makes that worthy of a vote?

Well... the game is called Pick you Power. The novelty of this game is that you get to... wait for it... pick your power. Someone who signed up for pick your power and

wanted

to be at the bottom of the list signed up for the wrong game. Either that, or has other motives; and by other motives I mean

scum

motives. Seriously, did anyone in this game want to be the last to pick their role?

So because I like weak roles/VT more than roles like vigs, cops... vigs... then other stuff I am scum?

Going to go out on a limb and call Guardian stubborn town with a bit of an twat mixed in.

[LlamaFluff]

Okay. Let me try this again. This is PICK YOUR POWER. A game where we all get to PICK OUR POWER. Even if someone wanted to be at the bottom of the list, that means he/she wanted to pick after scum, allowing scum to pick some power roles before him/her. And my concern is not that someone might prefer VT to PRs but it is such an interesting statement about landing in the list where llama wanted to be.

Llama

- can you go into more detail about why you picked the numbers and the decision making process to land you where you wanted to be? Did you want to be dead last? Or somewhere near the bottom? Why specifically did you want to be located where you are?

I HATE being strong power roles. Anyone who has ever played with me before knows this fact, I would rather draw vanilla then cop, vig, doctor, etc. Having night actions to in depth consider messes with my ability to play a good game, almost every time I am unhappy with my play, I was non-vanilla. I hoped for the bottom 1/3 of the list, so I could take a role that I can still use, but also enjoy a bit more. If I was at the top of the list, I might be able to take a decent role out of scum hands
but I also would not really have much fun. I know this game is pick your power, but what if I dont like many powers available?

unvote

Not liking who is on ss wagon

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

[LlamaFluff]

shutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

vote benmage

my original thought was correct.

cool.

[LlamaFluff]

There is no weak doc.

The weak doc is scum.

Discuss.

I did so by voting Ben.

Others should join me. There will be fresh baked cookies. Macamicdamia nut ones.

[LlamaFluff]

I HATE being strong power roles. Anyone who has ever played with me before knows this fact, I would rather draw vanilla then cop, vig, doctor, etc. Having night actions to in depth consider messes with my ability to play a good game, almost every time I am unhappy with my play, I was non-vanilla. I hoped for the bottom 1/3 of the list, so I could take a role that I can still use, but also enjoy a bit more. If I was at the top of the list, I might be able to take a decent role out of scum hands
but I also would not really have much fun. I know this game is pick your power, but what if I dont like many powers available?

But how did you strategically pick your numbers so you would be at the bottom?

I just picked a mid range number with high kicker. Figured most people would pick 1-3, 7-9 or 13-15, so went for the dead middle of it all.

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

But this is a direct contradiction. Why not go for a high number and pick one of the roles you would like to be, and if already selected, then win for the VT assignment?

Because if I got a top few draft pick, I would be obligated to take a strong role out of scum hands, not a role that I would like to be. Out of the list, there were only a few roles that I went "ooh that would be fun". Most were along the lines of "thats a stupid role".

Benmage - you whole premise is based on the weak doc being in town's hands, which is something we don't necessarily know.

Thats why he is my vote. Your weak bus of ben is noted...

@llamafluff

Do you have any meta evidence for your professed preference for vanilla?

Do you want game threads or MD threads? Multiple of both exist. Especially for the vig hate. I even adhere to the like for vanilla games to an extent as a mod, you were in that last mountainous-esq theme I ran

Ben +

volio

wagon = victory... lets go

[LlamaFluff]

Dear me who has not been driven to alchohol by family issues,

INhim is also probably scum

Love youts truely,

The romeo allegory lion

[LlamaFluff]

Fate, vote Ben.

DONT MAKE ME CAP LOCK TO CONVINCE YOU

Guardian is probably VVI town, Ben is scum, for multiple reasons. The most recent already outlined, the most previous from before the game started.

[LlamaFluff]

Prana listen, you NEED to come back to us. You're not the same as you were as a child. You argue with yourself over the best strategies and theories, and then you ask Uncle Fate to help you in your arguments? We're worried about you, we really are.

Unlce Fate needs to realize that the next generation at times knows what they are talking about. Like Ben is scum. He is not being "retarded" like Parama is saying. He is not just being aggressive. He is scum. He 100% assumes that a role is town, that according to his theory of what a winning combination should be, is the second role that should be chosen, and he sure isnt second on the list as far as I see. Now scum should know if what alignment that role is... they should indeed. Note he also is overlooking that the best solution for the cop would be to have the a "town" WATCHER on them since thats a 1-1 trade that can also deal with the threat of a scum vanilla-izer or scum roleblock.

Tah-dah!

Ben is suggesting sub-par ideas to deal with a role that also makes a lot of assumptions about alignments. Also he is suggesting a policy lynch of a slot if they did not pick cop, if you look at him, he is setting up to turn that into his core arguemnt depending on what happens next. I think Guardian NOT-cop is more of a town tell since scum want that gone just as much if not more then town. Ben is hoping to tack on a null if even that tell to a wagon in hopes of powering through the lynch at this point

That and his first vote is ultra-scummy.

Ben needs lynching Uncle Fate, just join the wagon already. We can all be wrong at times, its just about how quickly we can remedy it. Here is your chance.

[LlamaFluff]

llama have you played with ben before.

Last game I remember with him was a long time ago where I was a wierd third party-ish role who had to help scum but only knew who one scum was, and he was town, looked really pro-town, and then got himself modkilled. May have played with him more recently though, although if I did he was far less memorable there.

[LlamaFluff]

Parama - He is just bad town who is arrogent because he got top pick and now has loud people yelling at him making him act like an ass. Almost positive he is town here. I wont vote him outside of him explicitly claiming to be scum.

[LlamaFluff]

That's because I'm posting. Don't worry, I don't have anything worth posting atm unless someone asks.
@Llama - That's not the problem I have with him. I am arrogant as hell always. That doesn't stop me from scumhunting while also getting people to side with me. And claiming to change numbers is in fact explicitly claiming to be scum. But whatever. We don't NEED your vote to lynch him.

I dont have a problem with you, I know you are arrogent as well, I am too to an extent at least. That doesnt stop me from trying to not have people I think are town lynched, or stop me from getting people to agree with me that they are town. I dont hink that changing numbers is a big tell if someone is playing a WIFOM game, I think most of the people voting him are leaning town, but I just have a mislynch feeling here.

But whatever, I dont NEED you to vote someone else to stop him from getting lynched. Im going to fight this as long as it is there I think. Also I thought I removed that from my sig, so will do that now, although im rerunning it with a different theme and ranking system axed.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't care about convincing you in particular to vote for him. I'm following what I believe too, y'know.

I know, I just am replying in the same style of post for the irony.

Also im thinking scum team looks like this:

Benmage
xvart
Inhim
lurker
loud player

[LlamaFluff]

Parama - He is just bad town

Mind explaining?

Really? Not much you are doing suggest anything contrary, you are managing to hit emotional town tells though.

[LlamaFluff]

I see several people who say they feel I'm scum, and none of them are voting me.
This is gonna be a fun game :>

Meh, most of your secondary reads look good but your vote is in the wrong spot. Ben is still scum. The number thing is a little confusing to me since I see it, but I dont think we should base a D1 lynch on it.

I could easily see gandalf being the "lurker" part of my scum list though, and if it came down to him or Guard it would be no contest where my vote would be. The loud one I have an idea but I want to see them dig themselves a bit of a hole before biting.

[LlamaFluff]

Do you want game threads or MD threads? Multiple of both exist. Especially for the vig hate. I even adhere to the like for vanilla games to an extent as a mod, you were in that last mountainous-esq theme I ran

1 town game, and 1 md please.

Most recent game I have some PR hate commentary in (was a mountainous one)

LOT more MD ones though with recent things, this one is probably the best since it was about three months ago and even refrences a game where I talked about the same stuff

If I had the ability between getting any known role or getting VT to take a role away from scum, I would be VT every game. I hate getting roles that much. They damage my play almost on the level of hostility in the thread.

[LlamaFluff]

The loud one I have an idea but I want to see them dig themselves a bit of a hole before biting.

Do I get to be the loud one? That spot better be reserved for me!

<3

There are many types of loud/dominant players. This may or may not be you in this case.

I agree to disagree with you about Guider. I would be fine with a Gandalf lynch, but Ben needs a rapid death, so does inhim. That magic trio I put my stamp of approval of having at least two scum in.

[LlamaFluff]

Can I compramise and say the "predominant one"

I like that phrasing more.

[LlamaFluff]

Cool. Then scum is

Ben
Inhim
xvart

The Lurker

gandalf
The Predominant One

[LlamaFluff]

You still have xvart as scum?

Derp.

Inhimscum called Parama scum who is in the same group (8) as him? Maybe. He's not as much of a threat as Guderian is.

Gandalf is obv, but I have secret reasons why wagonning Guderian will be more beneficial to town.

xvart would be #4 to lynch, but yes they are on my list.

Inhim I would be ok with lynching right now. If you look at the same post from him you are talking about, he goes onto talk about how we are all voting G simply because he was the only one who had a X1 number and that if someone else had picked that, then there would be no real case on him. Reads as a very passive deflection from the wagon that he is currently sitting on. Tie in appeal to athority, and if my G read is wrong, Inhim needs insta-death.

[LlamaFluff]

If G is scum there is no doubt that Inhim needs death, he would be my #1 pick instantly. If G is town Inhim is still probably scum to me. That read is independent of what Gs alignment is, but G being scum strengthens it.



Heeh-yah

[LlamaFluff]

G the person who starts with G who I cant ever spell due to thinking of Guardian and Giardia when I try to spell his annoying name. Can I start calling him Giardia? I have used that term about 100 times in my wastewater treatment design paper. Gandalf is Gandalf.

Is jack joining the inhim hate? Joy.

[LlamaFluff]

Fate, want to compramise and wagon up Inhim?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote gandalf

Ben and Inhim are still going to need lynching.

[LlamaFluff]

I do have a vague recollection of a game I replaced in, was town, and when pressured I unconsciously made up motivations for my predecessor's night actions, as if I made the decisions myself. I do believe there was great skepticism. I might have been lynched, I don't remember. So I can understand this sort of making up of memories.

UNLESS

there is reason to believe that the explanation can pretty much only come from a QT read.

What about giving Ben or Inhim a nice rope necklace?

If one of those two or gandalf arent going to get lynched today im going to lose it unless something major happens. I would be happy with rope going to any of those guys.

[LlamaFluff]

Cue fate meltdown in -1, -2, -3.... go!

Cue Giardia meltdown in 3, 2, 1.... go!

[LlamaFluff]

Lalalafluff, what is the point of that post?

I feel an impending meltdown. Sort of a *le sigh* move since I really dont want one but feel it coming. Fun, fun, fun....

Lets change pace though

unvote
Vote Inhim

He is scum for serious. My daycop ability said he is, was deciding when to claim that result but I think this is time enough....

[LlamaFluff]

also, fate did you miss the part where benmage specifically asked me to claim. Do you consider that scummy?

It was, that upon lots of other stuff. Its why Ben is one of the people that needs a nice new necklace.

[LlamaFluff]

Few things that I am thinking about, too lazy/tired to look them up though so someone else should

1) Who was bringing up some "Giardia or vollkan" thing? I think someone was talking about that at one point.
2) Did Hoopla do this neighborhood thing in PPY3?

There may have been a three but I got distracted by the TV. If I remember it I will ask.

This week is going to be busy for me, I have a term project due Tuesday and two more Friday. Then next week is finals. That means my posting is probably going to be short and fast, thats what she said, but it still will be.

[LlamaFluff]

Psst... people

Hoopla and Giardia are not scum together. This is really serious.

[LlamaFluff]

I still say that Giardia is town and just the resident mislynch bait for this game.

Just got a slight whiff of a town read from inhim, so going back to Ben. Ben is definantly scum, someone read him in iso and tell me how you can think otherwise.

unvote
Vote Ben

[LlamaFluff]

Updated scum list for those who are interested, which should be all yall:

Ben
Cupcake
Sajin
Inhim
Eli or Rabies


Also: Giardia is town, Hoopla is town, IAU is town, Pom is town, Jack, Parama and Fate are probably town.

Can we please lynch Ben?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, of the four uniques, which do you find scummiest?

Ben, the one im voting for, by a mile. Its basically in order although LC/Sajin are pretty close together, I would not have any problem with Sajin then LC.

[LlamaFluff]

Well, he's not actually one of those four, but he is pretty high up on the draft order.

I took it like Parama said.

Out of those four probably Gandalf, but I really dont think any of them are anything more then slightly leaning scum. If it was up to me none of them would be getting lynched today. However we have a lot of people pigeonholing the lynch into one of those four for reasons I cant really understand much.

[LlamaFluff]

To me, we're looking at those four because two of them are acting pretty damned scummy, the numbers favor us hitting scum among the uniques, and lynching scum higher up on the draft order takes away scum power.

People are so locked into them though that no one is paying attention to anyone else and are trying to force any type of scumtell possible onto the slots. Giardia really is town, if I have to claim Mason with him I will to get that point accross. Chck and vollkan are null at this point, cant really think of much either have done, Gandalf is the only one I can really see as scum, but even then there are quite a few who are much scummier then he is.

If you have a confirmation bias to at least one of the four being scum, you will try and force any possible tell you can find into supporting this evidence. Why arent we concentrating on the (6,1) people? There is what, about a 60% chance that one of them is scum?

Look at any attempt to start a wagon on anyone outside of the top four, it gets shut down every time. I think xvart at 4/5 has got the most and that was a very early wagon. People outside of the top four are just getting to do whatever they want but everyone is refusing to pay attention to them. Like Ben. Have you isoed him yet?

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah Llama the issue is I don't really think any of those three are scum. Yet. Andy hasn't really fulfilled his posting quota this game though which is making me rethink my town read on him. Sajin lost his town read... Pome's kept it though. I'd be most willing to lynch Sajin out of the three, but there are 6 scum in a game with 5 scum and we need to take care of them all first.

Was kind of a frustration/sarcasam thing of saying how stupid this all seems to me. I dont think that we should lynch one of the (6,1) people because their number, or that we should lynch one of the first four because of their number. We should lynch someone who is acting really scummy and people are using odds to avoid paying attention to.

[LlamaFluff]

Nah Giardia is town. He is my pseudo-mason buddy.

[LlamaFluff]

Holy shit, I think Gundian just nailed the scumteam!

Its not a horrible list, and its more evidence as to why he is town.

Also im sorry but I will probably keep calling you Giardia. My spelling is atrocious, and my normal name remembering tricks are not working with your name, I cant make it shorter, and I cant even pronounce it. Im sticking to something that is close, people will know, and that I will be able to use consistancy.

[LlamaFluff]

Will go with Gud then, although if I post while really tired or have been drinking no promises. Given what these next few weeks hold that may happen a few times.

[LlamaFluff]

Although, it looks more like a newbie under pressure trying to figure out what the right thing to say is, and then say it, even if he doesn't get it.

Thats what im reading, but I still have it coming from town who is just really confused about what is going on and trying to figure out how to stop getting attacked. The fact that he is not really going for all the hot topics reads as slight town as well. I just cant get my head around how his early posts didnt come from town, they read as new town who figured people would like him due to having first pick, realized it wasnt going to help him and freaked out.

[LlamaFluff]

We have people committing some serious scumtells and they are just getting a pass because all of this number nonsense with no substance to give it any girth.

Names. I don't give too much care to the "serious scumtells" - we'll need an explicit list of names.

Benmage for probably about the zillionth time. HAVE YOU READ HIM IN ISO? You are not voting him so I can only assume and hope the answer is no given that you are not voting him. Correct your flaws vote scum/bus your buddy, we can all move on.

Gud is beyond obvious town, no one else in the top four is really that scummy. Others are, they get lynched, we move on. SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!

Quite a few people, enough to start a noticeable wagon at least have agreed with me over time that he is scum. Lets actually start this wagon and lynch scum instead of just wandering around aimlessly like we are now only to end up with a deadline VI lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

deadline VI lynch.

As opposed to other Benmage lynches?

So you consider Benmage a VI lynch? So you think he is town?

[LlamaFluff]

Ode to Guderian

They all think youre scum
For reasons unknown
Yet here I scream town
But sadly alone

It "numbers" this
and "come on already" that
As no one still listens
To this African cat

They should look at others
Like possibly ben
Only at that point
Will we finally win

If I have to write poems
to get my point across
I will continue to do so
LIKE A BOSS!

[LlamaFluff]

Its not a horrible list, and its more evidence as to why he is town.

I don't see why it is evidence of towniness. Number-heavy play is not a towntell, especially when the statistical method is just garbage. While I am not accusing Guderian of being scummy for it (I want to see how he responds), number-heavy play is an easy way that scum can make their arguments appear objective and complex, thus avoiding a lot of debate.

He is town because he not able to figure out exactly what is going on here. Look at his play, people get mad at his, he tried something. People get mad at that, he tries doing something else people seem to be suggesting. The pattern of trying to please his attackers and right what they are yelling at him for being wrong about is all there. He realizes that numbers are big, he goes for the other high ranks. People talk about neighborhoods, he makes a scum list based on them. This is the sign on town trying to fix what people are saying he is scummy for by scumhunting on that instead of what I think he would otherwise. If Gud was scum, he would be able to adjust a whole lot quicker then he is, and probably please people a whole lot faster. He seems to be flying solo, he thinks he finds a solution, sticks hard on it for five pages or so, gives up and tries something else. This man is not getting coached.

Can you post the major points of your BM case? (3 is fine, I don't want to see a wall tbh.)

Stupid real vote to start...

Vote Andrius

Kitoari's replacement. This is a real vote.

Not wanting to be in an abrasive game is not a tell of anything but sanity, but moving on to more serious things.

We have these two quotes in short time from eachother

Anywhose I agree about the increased likelyhood of a scum in the top 4. I like hooplas reasoning to exclude chk. I'd also want to rule out Guideran. I while I see scum going for top picks I don't see them desiring cop. And going 1,1 seems like and all or nothing move.

Sure scum could go for this. And I drink a lot of wine when I look at G-man and what he’s done/said/is. Scum could go for it, and go for broke, only to nullify the single most powerful town role. But they’d have to be pretending to be a cop, giving a few results on whomever..Maybe even Nking a townie they confirmed or something, but they’d have to eventually give over a scum. Either bussing, or lying themselves. Moreover when/if the weak doctor was ever NK’d the cop would have to die the next night. And if they didn’t they’d be lynch fodder. Therefore (wine) sacrificing a weak scum to knock out the most powerful town role, doesn’t appear to be a bad idea. That is G-man, and I say this only because of his join-date.

Let’s just say if he didn’t pick cop, I’d like to lynch him right now relentlessly.

Ben is setting up a possible policy lynch here on Gud if he did not choose cop. This goes against a whole lot of logic. Already Ben openly has called Gandalf scum, and says for a (1,1) pick that Gud is probably town. At the same time though, he is willing to throw that read out on a WIFOM call for his lynch, as anyone who did NOT pick cop with their first pick must be scum as only town would want to have the biggest threat to scum. This is a personal preference thing.

For refrence looking at past games

PYP1 - First pick (town) - Vig
PYP2 - First pick (scum) - Cop
PYP3 - First pick (scum) - Vig

So town has never picked cop first... and scum has half the time. Makes perfect sense to policy lynch non-cop off this data...

Also based on what hooplas saying I think it very likely to have scum in the bottom 2 neighbors and like my initial andrius vote even more.

Stupid again... not a tell... radda radda

Not picking 1 as cop is the single most anti-town thing therefore if Gude didn't pick cop He committed the most anti-town thing and deserves to be hung.

Hah, love this scum tell. Ok Ben just outright admitted that what he wants to policy lynch Gud for is NOT a scumtell. He calls it anti-town, which is *drumroll* NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT!!!!

If it was it would be a scum tell, or a town tell, not an anti-town null tell. This is the entire case on Gud from Ben. If he didnt pick cop he is anti-town and must die.

As we move on, we have Ben trying to control the doctor, another really awesome thing right there. I would rather keep a midstrenght strong player with a PR alive over a weaker player with a better PR.

Another wierd thing that he is doing is assuming that the doctor MUST be town. There is only one way Ben can possibly know this (and of course he cant be the doctor because thats the second best role apparently and therefore second pick MUST have it), and that is Ben is scum.

Look at his attempts to set up a policy lynch on Gud. He makes the statemtent that if Gud picked ANYTHING but cop he must die, and what does past game show? Town has never picked cop first, scum picked cop first half the time. His "policy" does not support this games meta in the least bit. On top of that, he admits that it is only an anti-town tell and has nothing to do with alignment.

On top of that he is making some assumptions on alignments of roles, and is jumping all over Andrius for a very impressive null tell, attempting to set him up to get piled on if anyone decides to talk about lynching from that "neighborhood"

Ben is scum. Please someone else see this already. We arent lynching Town-Gud, we arent lynching Gandalf, we arent lynching chick or vollkan. We are lynching the SCUMMIEST PLAYER. That is Ben.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Gandalf

Anyone over Gud and deadline is coming

Finals week is next week, biggest ones are tuesday and then a pair friday, access will chance respectively.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Gandalf

Anyone over Gud and deadline is coming

Finals week is next week, biggest ones are tuesday and then a pair friday, access will chance respectively.

Anyone over Gud? So you pretty much don't care who we lynch...townie points there. /sarcasm

Fine.

Anyone but a handful of people none of who are in danger of being lynched over Gud leaving Gandalf as the only viable non-Gud lynch in this situation. Shall I include indepth definitions of "anyone" like that in the future when I am making a point to avoid "/sarcasam" responses? (/sarcasam)

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Gandalf

Anyone over Gud and deadline is coming

Finals week is next week, biggest ones are tuesday and then a pair friday, access will chance respectively.

Anyone over Gud? So you pretty much don't care who we lynch...townie points there. /sarcasm

Actually the far more interesting point is why you are so concerned about me jumping on the Gandalf wagon when you have been pushing it on tells AND meta for a week.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't think that was my other head's point. (as in, you jumping onto gandalf)

Well, whats your other heads point then?

You apparently are fine with me joining Gandalf wagon, you have been completely ignoring Gud so I doubt you think he is scum if its been the entire game without you saying anything. Was it just a comment to make me look bad when apparently you are fine with the move?

Can someone vig cupcake tonight? Please.

[LlamaFluff]

I would be completely willing to lynch Cupcake, or Ben.

unvote

Wagon isnt going anywhere but people who want to update their actions should be able to. Also we may have preferable wagons available to us.

FATE WANT TO LYNCH A CUPCAKE WITH RED-SCUM FROSTING?

I like most of Paramas list, and I friggen told you Gud was town.

[LlamaFluff]

Like Ben is scum. He is not being "retarded" like Parama is saying. He is not just being aggressive. He is scum. He 100% assumes that a role is town,

that according to his theory of what a winning combination should be, is the second role that should be chosen, and he sure isnt second on the list as far as I see.

Now scum should know if what alignment that role is... they should indeed.

I don't understand the underlined.

You seem to be saying the best thing for the town is to pick cop and then weak doctor, anything else is SURELY anti-town and policy-lynchable. Given that that is the case, you should not have picked weak doc, so the only way you can know the alignment of the weak doc would to be scum with no WD on it.

Ben is suggesting sub-par ideas to deal with a role that also makes a lot of assumptions about alignments.

1.

Also he is suggesting a policy lynch of a slot if they did not pick cop, if you look at him, he is setting up to turn that into his core arguemnt depending on what happens next.

2.

I think Guardian NOT-cop is more of a town tell since scum want that gone just as much if not more then town. Ben is hoping to tack on a null if even that tell to a wagon in hopes of powering through the lynch at this point

That and his first vote is ultra-scummy.

1. So?
2. Couldn't disagree more. Why would town want the cop gone?

My first vote was solid. Nor did I waste time with a rvs. And my belief on that slot remains true.

1. Look at what I dug up, town has never picked cop first, scum does half the time, that makes it a crappy policy lynch.
2. Want it gone from others hands. Scum have cop and thats one less role to hunt them down, perfectly fine move for scum to take that role early on.

I like llama's unvote but doesn't vote me, especially after Parama's vote. Cause her case is smoke and mirrors, crap and nonexistent.

First, im a he. Its a dude lion. Second, I have a few of my town/null reads saying that you are probably town so taking that into effect. If it came down to you or Gandalf though, you would be getting a nice new rope for the holidays.

I would like to see Cupcake or Ben swing today, going to put a little trust in the reads of my town reads, assume Ben might just be applying the "I am the world" theory to his reads, so will try and kickstart something new.

Vote Cupcake

[LlamaFluff]

1. Look at what I dug up, town has never picked cop first, scum does half the time, that makes it a crappy policy lynch.
2. Want it gone from others hands. Scum have cop and thats one less role to hunt them down, perfectly fine move for scum to take that role early on.

1. Again different games. Different total roles. Different players. Nor do I care if people played sub-optimally in past games.
2. How does the #1 pick not taking cop make it more of a town tell? I don't understand what you're saying...."want it gone from other hands" Okay town wants it in town hands...therefore they should take it #1.....I agree that scum taking cop #1 to lead town on a wild goos chase is viable. It also denies them having to look for it if a town slot later in the pickings covered over cop. I don't see why town wouldn't want cop, and why thats a towntell for #1 pick.

1. So you are back to policy lynching anyone that does not make what YOU decide is the optimal decision? People all think differently, some people would rather not be cop, stop with these stupid policy lynches.
2. Town wants it in town hands, scum wants it in scum hands. Scum are more threatened by cop so want it out of the way more then town would want it on their sides I would think. Town is more likely to take things they like then take thing that are "correct", so a non-cop choice would be a slight town tell to me.

I also would like to present you with this evidence I just dug up for cupcake scum. I did a little sleuthing with my camera and managed to take this picture real quickly, and think that its evidence enough.

[LlamaFluff]

Andrius is in this game? Seriously?

If I had to bet he doesnt know this himself.

Want to lynch cupcake?

[LlamaFluff]

I want an answer here:

*****************Does anyone think theres a role better than cop to pick from?(Note vig is every other night).

Watcher can be far more powerful then cop, in a power heavy game this is like doubly true. You honestly dont see that? I would rather have town-watcher scum-cop then scum-watcher town-cop in a heartbeat.

[LlamaFluff]

You talking about questionable results... watcher can see a multitude of people visit a person who winds up dead and not know who committed it.

You really dont see how watcher can be more powerful then cop in this game? Think outside the box here, you are only concentrating on negatives.

Anyways I think we've toss and tumbled on this issue enough. People have their reasoning and thats that.

So you finally admit that policy lynch of non-cop Gud is stupid?

[LlamaFluff]

I feel like Llama keeps trying to incriminate Ban for his belief that cop is the only worthy pick for #1 (assuming town). I mean, it might not make sense and such, but why does that make him scum?

Actually it was him setting up a policy lynch on Gud if he didnt take cop more then anything else. Apart from that though what has he done? Answer is close to nothing. He has basically just piggybacked on what people have said about Gandalf apart from that. He is one of the few who just seems intent on getting a lynch of one of the top picks more then anything else, which again is a little scummy on its own merits. The way he is going about it is even worse. Only paranoia is that my favorite pick for a partner to Gandalf-scum just voted Ben.

unvote
Vote Ben

Lets see how this goes.

[LlamaFluff]

So much for thinking I’m town via others you trusted…or was that baloney. Don’t tell me slowsilver and DGB were your trusted ones…lol..

In what world would me incriminating Gude for not taking cop #1 pick translate into me being scum. First and foremost if you want to call it a policy lynch, how many D1 policy lynches have you see scum try and lead/push when met with intense resistance. Has anyone catered to my opinion on the #1 pick? Yet have I changed my views on it?

Now your second part of slipping your vote onto me….I haven’t done enough….fair enough, been busy…But I have made effort, and I am nowhere near the worst in that boat.

First no... DGB is one of the people I think would be scum with Gandalf. Fate and to an extent Eli were my town reads saying you are town.

The reason I think you can be scum for the policy lynch is your utter refusal to do anything else. Ffffffss the resistance thing though, flashbacks there.

Stupid freaking conflicting tells... anger... tired... finals... confusing...
.

..

...

....

.....

shit

unvote
Vote Gandalf

Really wish there was enough time for a Cupcake wagon instead.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not feeling gandalf scum, I think he's the easy mislynch and his wagon is full of opportunistic scum.

So that means chick and Gud are BOTH bussing Ben as well? All your scum reads sure like bussing eachother dont they.

While I dont think Gandalf is a very good pick for scum, he probably rounds out a top 10 or so for me, I think after what Ben pointed out about him sticking to his guns, it just feels like what happened in a recent game for me. While I think he is completely wrong, im not as sure its a tell then I thought it was at first.

I think right now the best picks are Cupcake and Inhim.

[LlamaFluff]

FATE COME BACK AND TELL US WHAT TO DO!

So that means chick and Gud are BOTH bussing Ben as well? All your scum reads sure like bussing eachother dont they.

Absolutely. That's what scum does.

hrmmmmmmm

[LlamaFluff]

I don't remember, don't really care. Even if I was fairly sure you were town, lynching you would be better than lynching me simply because while I THINK you're town(hypothetically), I KNOW I'm town.

And that's why I called it a self preservation vote. You have no reason to vote me other than you don't want to die yourself .....not very convincing for the lead wagon, trying to push an alternate one.

Ehhh... thats a bad point. I dont think town-gandalf or scum-gandalf would vote for someone else. Any other vote is a guarenteed death.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Inhim

His iso 5. His iso 6. His continued ignoring of Gandalf. His continued pushing of Gud-town. His trying to get more of a claim out of Ben. His role PM that says he is scum. A combination of all previous points.

[LlamaFluff]

Fate you are hillarious! Now vote for Inhim-def-scum.

Gud you are not. But also vote for Inhim

Cupcake help me quicklynch Inhim, if we do it fast enough Andrius will get modkilled under rules

[LlamaFluff]

I think your sufferin confirmation bias wih both him andben, but w/e

There are worse things to suffer from. Like narcolepsy, or herpes.

Also with Gandalf flip plus what I said at end of yesterday Ben is town.

[LlamaFluff]

We lynch inhim.

Im not totally sold on Andrius as scum though. Recent read changes makes him less likely to be town, but there are better lynches. He would make a better investigation or vig. There are people with very clear ties to Gandalf to deal with over a lurker. Maybe if it was Nik instead of Andrius, but the one time ive seen Andrius scum he was fairly active. What game are you going off of?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote Sajin

for

Concerning the gandalf situation, that was indeed epic fail. But the problem is I could actually see him justifying his predecesors role choice pick as his own as town. Meh. That by itself was not enough, but his reaction to the entire situation strikes me with a slightly town vibe honestly (mostly being his thinking he would be lynched pressured a bunch and posting his collection of reads on people to try and be a benefit makes me think he is town). What I really dislike about the situation though is chain wagoning based on just that quote and a vote. The guderian case is better than the gandalf case imo and I would like to see what gandalf wagoners have to say about the other and vice versa.

Amungst other stuff

[LlamaFluff]

Guess who never gets my vote again?

Llama.

I TOLD U it was biased damnt.

AND GUESS WHAT. DSAJINS TOWN TOO

WE BOTH ARE 1/2.

YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT HOOPLA.

If the government was right half the time though, the world would be awesome! If I batted 500, I wouldnt have been cut from Tee-Ball! 50% is amazing! WE ARE GODS AMUNG YELLING PEOPLE AND DISNEY LIONS!

I could swing an Andrius lynch, but I want more then "he be town" for Sajin.

[LlamaFluff]

Try lowering your standards. People expect less out of you and you surpass your goals more often and you dont need to try to meet expectations. Why do you think I dont mind (much) that im a 2.8ish college student?

[LlamaFluff]

@Pom - Do you think Gud and Slow not paying attention to what is happening a scum tell?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama since I'm not listening to your reads for the rest of the game, want to humor us with that "predominant" scum read now?

Its Sajin, Prana and people who are lurking (rabies, eli, andrius, IAU)

[LlamaFluff]

Llama since I'm not listening to your reads for the rest of the game, want to humor us with that "predominant" scum read now?

Its Sajin, Prana and people who are lurking (rabies, eli, andrius, IAU)

Lol, thats not too shabby of a list...I also don't like DGB...but first and foremost, obviously, slow needs to go.

DGB is a conflicted read. It wouldnt shock me to see her flip scum, but I just have gut saying town there.

[LlamaFluff]

IAUN is about to be modkilled as well...

And Sajin.

Quadruple hammer (slow, rabies, IAU, sajin) would be fun. I would not really be opposed to throwing down a vote that takes out basically all of my secondary scum reads.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote slow

Who wants to play Thor?

[LlamaFluff]

Except this time the broken record is right. Even a stopped clock is right at least twice a day

Actually if its daylight savings it has the potential to only be right once.

[LlamaFluff]

Needless to say but this is the point where if a town roleblocker did not block vollkan they claim, need to think about validity of anyone who drew VT going for blocker claiming as well if no one claims. Being really tired it sounds like a good plan.

[LlamaFluff]

I am drunk.

I am confused.

I distrust Fate in this state.

I think Sajin is scum

I am worried about DGB

I am worried about too many town reads

Who had been bussing?

I am pissed I got copped. This might be the first time in over two years I got copped. I am not scum dammnit.

Gud is still really cute town.

Sleepy yet not tired.

Cool cupcake has been wagoned. Not as happy with that lynch as in the past however given that they presented meta evidence. I would bet bad lynch persoanlly in this particular case.

Something is wrong with reading at this point.

Stupid Game

Stupid dog, you make me look bad. Hah

If the team is Fate/Sajin/DGB I will celebrate. Its probably not due to how bad my reads are.

To whoever talked about it inverter is GF if in hands of semi-smart scum.

[LlamaFluff]

Way to false-claim watcher.

I am about to leave for the airport, BUT.

Roleclaim: Even-Night Vig

You guys can guess who we shot.

Unvote, Vote: Fate

If thats the case trade may very well be worth it.

unvote
Vote Cupcake

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

Im thinking its just about massclaim time.

[LlamaFluff]

I would argue no Andrius death

[LlamaFluff]

Are you still drunk?

The hell does that even mean? You think Andrius shouldn't die?

I think that he isnt really obv-scum or anything. Other people on your shoot list actually seem scummy as opposed to him.

[LlamaFluff]

Andirus is certainly null.

But the others on the list have dropped more town tells than scumtells, unless you think DGB is scum (I don't, but I haven't been reading her posts).

What do you think of Jack and Xvart?

This is kinda why I want a massclaim. It gives insight on who could be RB. It might tie down another town or scum. With no impending modkill, I would be gunning for a Cupcake/Sajin vig and lynch combo.

DGB could be scum, I have not gotten any good town tells off of her this game although there arent really strong scum reads. Basically stands on the same ground as Andrius for tells given off, although im a little biased towards Andrius-town given the stupid stuff thrown against him early. I would say Jack over xvart though without thinking about it too much.

I mean, I guess Andrius due to lack of a better option, but I think massclaim will present us with that better option.

[LlamaFluff]

vote jack

This game should only have two speeds: Fast and Holy crap what was that?

[LlamaFluff]

I have no idea what the case on Jack is, but this wagon is awesome and I'm sticking with it.

Yeah im not too sure either.

Sajin-Cupcake-Jack sounds good though to me.

I really dont get the Parama over Andruis kill from Cupcake. Seems more like scum taking a shot on someone that can concievably be passed off as a town vig kill over what I think that town-cupcake would go for (Andrius).

Heck I would be fine lynching Cupcake over Jack. At least I have quite a bit about why Cup is scum.

[LlamaFluff]

But worldview wise, Cupcake being a vig and the scum having roleblocker gunsmith and friends doesn't make too much sense.

gunsmith yes, roleblocker is irrelevent. I know I would much rather shut down a town informational role than a vig. Put the game in one players hands intead of letting people get cleared.

It would be very awesome to see the scum vig get killed by the odd vig (hint hint)

[LlamaFluff]

I can do more

unvote

Will return once vollkan says that he has submitted.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Jack

[LlamaFluff]

It also involves fudge beacuse I made some today. Put marshmallows in it with a shredded coconut and crushed walnut topping. Delicious.

[LlamaFluff]

Once we make sure no one has any results proving someone scum we massclaim. You are forgetting tracker and watcher.

[LlamaFluff]

OH AN DBTW:

WHO CALLED SAIJIN TIOWN?

LLAMA THAT CARD I TOOK FROM YOU? GIVE IT TO ME AGAIN.

AND SHUT YOUR FURRY MNOUTH.

If Gud is town I get it back again though. Its all about little victories, like how I found a dollar in my jacket pocket today that I didnt know about, and used it to buy a soda.

[LlamaFluff]

vote cupcake

Still not diggin the andrius lynch too much, which probably means he is scum given my track record. I swear my read on Gud better be right, I need to take something away from this game. Also funny I never noticed he became a different person.

[LlamaFluff]

Does Andrius realize we are massclaiming?

Also is this his way of actually saying he has not read any part of this game?

[LlamaFluff]

Apparently he did claim and I missed it... which means im up

Vanilla to Nieghborizer. Really pissed off I didnt get that role, hell I designed and ran a whole mini theme based on it.

[LlamaFluff]

@Eli - What topics of yours have been active and which have been quiet? Who has been talking more and what are the reads your slots have on eachother?

[LlamaFluff]

@Eli - What topics of yours have been active and which have been quiet? Who has been talking more and what are the reads your slots have on eachother?

This question goes to nacho now apparently

[LlamaFluff]

Since you seem to be the resident Jack expert Hoopla, what do you think of "At least two of Eli/Fate/Cupcake/Prana are scum" thing?

What I have picked up off him shows that he really wanted to avoid looking in the 6s for scum, but that really doesnt give much apart from what is already widely assumed of "at least one six is scum".

I do think looking through him that cupcake/prana are slightly more likely to be town however then I had cupcake at earlier.

DGB/Andrius are ok for a kill duo, but IAU/Andrius is miles better. To make a point...

unvote
Vote IAU

While taking shots at SS when that wagon was going on he jumps to the xvart wagon, ignores gandalf until he makes the whole slipish comment, doesnt vote jack until he has been hammered already, lurkered it up.

Seriously though, his intereactions with slow are very telling. He votes slow out the gate for the comment regarding gud possibly taking vanilla. Continues some competitive banter with slow while he moves his vote over to xvart later on. When he moves back to look at the gandalf wagon, he picks out slow as the most scummy player with ties to the way that wagon occured, although again dismisses a vote there, to go absolutely nowhere. Later in the day though he comes back saying how he would love to hammer slow.

He is scum, specifically because slow was scum.

Please shoot IAU over DGB. All she wanted was some fruit and to give avatars santa hats.

[LlamaFluff]

I would say inhim wagon was likely town driven. All town. Seriously. Outside chance of a few flipping scum, but probably not.

[LlamaFluff]

@llama: I do not believe that there are "few scum" on the wagon, but I do believe there is one, mainly due to the speed the wagon occured at. While I would like to believe it was all town, I have a very very hard time believing so.

Fair enough, would you consider vigging IAU?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Andrius

Whatever

[LlamaFluff]

This freaking game.....

[LlamaFluff]

Well my play in this game wasnt too great scum-read wise, but at least I was right on the Gud read from very early on, and sorta right on Andrius but caved there because it obviously wasnt going anywhere.

[LlamaFluff]

And llama and prana were off on everything.

Hey, I called Gud town on page one.

[LlamaFluff]

I think one interesting thing still would be town taking the inverter. I actually debated it this game so that I could say beyond a doubt that all cop results were truthful, and we would not have the discussion of how much results should be trusted.

Also for Ben - Watcher is argueably better then cop since it can lean power roles to being scum/town since they are able to judge the intention of the roles as opposed to just getting an alignment. If the watcher targets the cop, he might be able to figure out the weak doc is town, or who the roleblocker is, or that scum used vanilla-izer. There is the potential for the watcher to clear or half clear or even catch scum with their role as opposed to cop that gets one (arguebaly dependable) alignment each night. In a game where you know where the strong roles are more likely to be, watcher can be brutal. No doubt it would have been my choice if I somehow ended up with a top pick.