Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Seacore]

Feysal makes a very good case.
It appears that El G is not going to be today's lynch, people are willing to wait to see if they continue to be scummy.

I do not like the kunk or the MoI wagons, although I'd settle for kunk in a pinch.

None of my other suspects have a chance at being lynched.

I'm joining this wagon

Unvote. Vote: BS

@kunk. more insanity points = more insanities, = more ways of catching scum out. I'd rather force that scummy person to take on another insanity.

[Seacore]

How about we swap Furc out and put Benmage in. I don't think Furc can be trusted to do anything.

Yeah, but how the hell can we control him if not through Grave Robbing?

We can't. Forming our plans around the assumption that it's possible is only going to make those plans fail.

Oh, there is one way, and I recommend it happen during Night 4 and 5.

[Seacore]

Sorry, there was no attempt there to be discreet. I think somebody should stalk and murder him later on. That way we get rid of an unreliable player, who may be going murderer and we can attempt to confirm his killer as investigator.

[Seacore]

Dear El Goosuki,

Please contribute.

The following are not examples of contributions:

Nicodemus

DIE DIE DIE

-DGB

Your defense of Nicodemus is noted, you ignoble cultbag!

-DGB

You know how much I love all of you... please...

-DGB

OMG Nicodemus made a post WITHOUT A VOTE!!!!

Why so shy, suddenly?

please oh please oh pretty please

Can someone kick the chair under Nicodemus? I will be forever grateful. For the love of all that is light and good and happy. Let's lynch Nicodemus.

Nicodemus... needs to die... moar...

Deadline is on the 24 - we can lynch Nicodemus.

MOAR NICODEMUS VOATS PLOX

-DGB

These are your last six posts. Please actually do something. Nico is not going to get lynched today. Nobody has responded positively to your 'case'. Please choose one of the actual wagons.

[Seacore]

I don't. Not many people are arguing that he's obv-town.
But he's hardly any different from several players in this game as far as contributing.
Also, your case has already been refuted as it doesn't account for his vote on Tom.

Saying something over and over again doesn't help push a case. You've had half a week now to persuade people that Nico is scum, nobody agrees. So please either present more reasons, or move to a more likely lynch.

[Seacore]

Tom, given Percy's answer, let's dispatch Fate good and violently please.

[Seacore]

Grave Rob Roster

RC = VP, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = Benmage, 3rd Wagonee
LB = Wicked, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

Agreement List

Those definitely partaking

Benmage - Agreed
hitorogoshi
VP Baltar - Agreed
Wickedestjr

Those potentially partaking

Baby Spice
El Goosuki
kunkstar7 - Agreed
MagnaofIllusion

Those unlikely partaking

Andrius
AurorusVox
Feysal
Furpants_Tom - Agreed
manho
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
Plum
Seacore - Agreed
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
Triglav
Trilobite
VasudeVa
Wraith
xvart

[Seacore]

Andrius, please do two things
1) Agree or disagree witht he grave rob proposal
2) Vote for somebody who has a chance of being lynched today.

[Seacore]

Wicked, we can't use Furc in the grave rob because he's admitted that he won't follow our plan.

While I'm not going murderer, you can't necessarily trust my last game record, as I replaced out D1

Kunk is not being given the graverob unless he's one of the top wagons, which is a good policy. Most of us agree that putting pro-town people alongside scum with the graverob is safe


@Spyrex, I abandoned ElG because it just wasn't happening, too many people don't find them scummy enough. Problem is, I don't like kunk or MoI for the lynch, I just don't find them scummy enough. BS though, I'm happy with that.
If it comes down to it, I'll lynch MoI or kunk to prevent a no lynch.

[Seacore]

um, xvart? Why are you voting for something that has already happened?

[Seacore]

Grave Rob Roster

RC = VP, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = Benmage, 3rd Wagonee
LB = Wicked, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

Agreement List

Those definitely partaking

Benmage - Agreed
hitorogoshi - Agreed
VP Baltar - Agreed
Wickedestjr

Those potentially partaking

Baby Spice
El Goosuki
kunkstar7 - Agreed
MagnaofIllusion

Those unlikely partaking

Andrius
AurorusVox
Feysal
Furpants_Tom - Agreed
manho
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
Plum
Seacore - Agreed
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
Triglav - Disagreed
Trilobite
VasudeVa - Agreed
Wraith
xvart


waiting for Wicked, MoI, ElG and BS to agree to the plan. Other agreements are also appreciated.

[Seacore]

I'm confused....why does Fate having an insanity make people more eager to dispatch him? It makes me believe him to have been an investigator who lied, and sought to become a murderer.

AAAGHH!! Why does nobody understand the rules. We found out Fate has an insanity

BY

dispatching him!

[Seacore]

BTW Seacore, where is Furc on your list?

He's already publicly stated he's not going to contribute, so why bother?

[Seacore]

@ Icerint,

There were two arguments against it 1) Let's wait and do it when we have less bodies, to decrease the chance of it fucking up and the cult ending up with corpse dust
2) Let's never do it, because Fate was probably town and it might help us out with our scum v town ratio

Both turned out to be false, so dispatching was correct.

[Seacore]

Furc, we're ignoring your robbing plans, since you're completely unreliable.

[Seacore]

Your night actions weren't unreliable, your cooperation is.
You've gone back and forward on your whether you'd grave rob both Day 1 and Day 2. When we were trying to cement a plan, you refused to participate. Now that we've got a plan that more than 7 people agree with (i.e. It can't just be cultists) now you pipe up and decide to change the plan.

This is why I'm ignoring you. You were originally part of the plan, because it made sense for you to grave rob, but you refused to participate so we were forced to make plans without you.

[Seacore]

I agree, and I'm not worried about his lying so much as I'm worried about his constant changing plans. He's done it both days. How can we trust that 5 hours before Night he's not going to say "actually, I'm planning on stalking somebody" or something akin.

[Seacore]

dispatch fate

can I rob grave fate (on phone, looking to contribute tonight when I get home SC2 has been crack + crazy weekend )

im for it
im not certain im going to be robbing
i dont feel like i need confirmation at all

im not certain im going to be robbing
i dont feel like i need confirmation at all

Furc, it's not to confirm you but to assist town =_="

Didn't mean to double post, I didn't realise I had also tabbed this quote to respond to.

i will rob one grave
i am ressing someone
i heard noise last night, so it would be nice if i didnt die myself

I am robbing two graves of my own choosing

if we can lynch babyspice or that nopointinactingmafia guy and noone robs the 2 graves i pick of my picking
then we might talk

I am robbing both Fate and LB

actually, ill do LB/RC since wickedest is bloody and I can double-stack rez kits I believe if I'm the only one on RC

I get that you don't read other people's posts, but do you actually read yours, Furc?

This is why I view you as unreliable, and you make me anxious when planning to include you in the plan.

Also, even if you are included, it won't just be you, because we are using the grave robbing to also lock down potential cultists.

[Seacore]

No we can't because we haven't organised the god damn grave rob! Do you not understand that it is important?

[Seacore]

We cannot trust furclow -> we need to force him to graverob -> we can't trust him to graverob -> what the hell do we do with him except ignore him.

[Seacore]

My vote, unsurprisingly, is that we don't use Furc in the roster. I think between my quote post, and VP's reference to SAII, there's clear evidence that Furc is unreliable.
Furc can choose on top of that whether he wants to rob or not, and the simple chance that he might should be enough to cover us if we're wrong about VP and/or hito.

In other news, I'll be limited access for this australian weekend, with my phone, which means I'll be reading, but less likely to be writing (I hate trying to write posts on the phone)

[Seacore]

It was never confirmed, but given we asked any other successful Rezzer's to come forward there are three possibilities

1) Wicked was the attempted cult-kill
2) Wicked was an attempted murder, and cult tried to kill LB (but the murderer beat them to it)
3) Wicked is a cultist, and cult have done something dodgy.

3 pushes suspicion on his supposed rezzers heavily, but that also makes it the least likely.
I think 1 is more likely than 2, given how many players are around, and also given LB had a general level of suspicion about them (making them a crap cult target)

So, by that logic, Wicked is likely the cult-kill, but not confirmed.

[Seacore]

Benmage, if they've done that, that's awesome. That means we are dying at a slower rate, we can take a break from hunting cultists and start focussing on murderers for a little while.

But ultimately, it comes down to any mafia game. Why do any mafia NK instead of just out playing the town? Because a) they have other tells and b) we win through probability.

[Seacore]

In other games of mafia, blood and insanity don't affect mafia, and we catch them anyway. Blood and insanity are at best unreliable cop tells. Insanity can be explained by getting a fetish passed to you and blood can be explained by rezzing somebody or being attacked. Neither will ever be perfect, and scum tells will always factor in.
If hito gets discovered as bloody tonight, I'll believe him when he says he was rezzing somebody.
If Baby spice says the same thing, I'd be pusing harder for a lynch.
We have a couple more methods of catching people out in a lie, but it's still a game of uninformed majority, informed minority.

[Seacore]

wicked is bloody
he does not need to be on RC
are you fucking dumb?

Whether or not I possess the power of speech has exactly as much impact on the plan as whether or not Wicked is bloody. Two people robbing each grave means that no-one gets any equipment. In fact, that's the whole point.

Also, launder resolves prior to grave robbing.

Tom, despite Furc's current agreement with including him, do you agree that we can't afford to take that chance?

[Seacore]

Feysal, do you trust Furc to follow through with the plan. Otherwise, my previous posted plan should be the one.
Wicked should launder for more reasons than just grave robbing. Since this resolves first, it's a moot point.
We don't know if the bodies have equipment, but neither do the cultists.
So not finding equipment does not mean they grave robbed, but finding equipment means they did not, and they can't take that chance, or we catch them.

[Seacore]

Just to emphasise, if we agree that Furc can't be trusted, and more of us have said no than yes, this is the plan we are following. Furc as a wild card who may or may not grave rob on top of this helps us in case we've accidentally put two cultists together on the roster.

Grave Rob Roster

RC = VP, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = Benmage, 3rd Wagonee
LB = Wicked, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Hito, 2nd Wagonee

Agreement List

Those definitely partaking

Benmage - Agreed
hitorogoshi - Agreed
VP Baltar - Agreed
Wickedestjr

Those potentially partaking

Baby Spice
El Goosuki - Agreed
kunkstar7 - Agreed
MagnaofIllusion

Those unlikely partaking

Andrius
AurorusVox
Feysal
Furpants_Tom - Agreed
manho
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
Plum
Seacore - Agreed
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
Triglav - Disagreed
Trilobite
VasudeVa - Agreed
Wraith
xvart


waiting for Wicked, MoI and BS to agree to the plan. Other agreements are also appreciated.

[Seacore]

Well, it was kind of assumed with the two rezz's and no sucessful cult kill. Be an extra-ordinary gambit if three cultists faked something like that.

This is Baby Spice's first post in over two days. And it was made within minutes of Benmage's question (that the above post is in response to). Can we please lynch this scum?

[Seacore]

I just don't find MoI scummy, I've looked at it several times now and I simply don't.
And to be honest I'll probably be jumping on the kunk wagon at deadline.

But my point isn't that Baby Spice has been lurking, my point is the active lurking. She's paying enough attention to the game to answer Benmage's questions before you and I can, and lets face it, we live in this game (between these hours anyway), and yet she's not scum hunting.

To me, that's scummier than somebody who is just not paying attention to the game.

[Seacore]

Furc as a wild card is just on top of the plan. He doesn't destroy the plan by ALSO graverobbing.
I don't want Furc as a wild card, I'd like him to do something the town can benefit by, but we can't depend on that.

This is my fear

Last night, I decided not to grave rob, because X and Y would have to have robbed it anyway, because they didn't know I'd change my mind, and I thought I'd rez Z because he's totally town

[Seacore]

EBWOP: Sorry, that's my fear if we include Furc in the plan and give him targets.

[Seacore]

All good love is illegal

[Seacore]

BS, I haven't made the plans.

I took VP's plan and forced people to discuss it with me and incorporated their changes.

I've simply been posting the plan and keeping a log of who has agreed to it.
Prior to the hammer vote (probably at L-2) the list will be posted with "2nd wagonee" and "3rd wagonee" replaced by actual people, likely kunk and ElG at this stage (given the liklihood of MoI as the lynch).

I also completely agree with you on Furc not being included, which I've said a hundred times.

So other than disagree with the idea of me being the planner, in an attempt to throw a little doubt on me, do you agree with the actual plan as it stands? Ignore the fact that it is posted by me, a cursory glance will reveal I've crafted very little of it myself.

[Seacore]

Also BS, you say you don't want last minute confusion regarding the roster, so you try and shoot down conversation regarding it, you don't respond to anything about the posted roster apart from saying you don't want Furc involved (BTW Furc isn't in the current roster) and you just say that somebody who seems town should post one at the end of the day and we'll follow it.

A) that didn't work with Hito's night action post. El G ignored it and suffered no consequence.
B) people who disagree with it will just say "I didn't like X's roster, so I did Y.

I'm attempted to get people on board. Particularly those who are rostered for grave rob. You yourself are potentially (although unlikely at this stage) involved. So please publicly say you'll follow the above plan.

[Seacore]

And on that note

Limited access for the weekend, christmas shopping and Harry Potter here I come

[Seacore]

Okay, I've been trying to keep up with this by phone and am lost with the night plan. I give up, somebody else can decide what the plan is as long as

a) It's posted clearly at the end of the day
b) It doesn't contain Furc

[Seacore]

I think the night guides, particularly Fey's, are good. There should be no excuse this time. Not following the night guide should equate to death.

In my skim throughs I noticed MoI voting for himself. This makes him look much scummier to me, even though the 'inevitability' of his lynch means he might just be frustrated town, I think it's also possible that it's scum who is trying to shut down effective night planning by ending the day early.
So, while I'll wait for the flip for my official "I was wrong", I'm silently thinking that already.

VP, can you organise a good grave rob plan to go with your guide? Since, even though I based the one I posted off of yours, I can't be trusted to do it, apparently.

[Seacore]

I completely agree with Tom's comment about blood. If you have announced you are bloody, launder. Launder resolves before investigate which means that anybody who is discovered with blood has some explaining to do.

[Seacore]

@Ice, your definitive list, does it take into account people you suspect as future murderers, or is it an investigator vs cultist scenario?

Also, while I'm addressing you directly, I think your concern about cultists warding bodies is over-rated. (Not insincere, it's just nothing to worry about). Graverobbing is a free-action, warding a body is an action that causes an insanity. This will tie up the cultists, and if they want to ritual on top of that, that's two insanity points they get.
Next night, we'll spread out our graverobbing and it'll be even harder for them to stop it, we'll have lost only one day in flips and they'll have given themselves a shit load of insanity across the board.

In fact, I encourage them to ward.

[Seacore]

I agree. Given that MoI is today's lynch, I think we can assume that Kunk and ElG are the two we find guiltiest.

VP, I ask you to do it because the fact that it was coming from me was providing ammunition for disagreeing with it.

[Seacore]

Okay everybody

Vote A -
RC = VP, Kunk
Fate = Benmage, El G
LB = Wicked, El G
MoI = Hito, Kunk

or

Vote B
ReaperCharlie - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Fate - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Lost Butterfly - Wickedestjr and Andrius
MoI - Wickedestjr and Andrius


A summary of the arguments
Vote A seems to be geared towards our 4 towniest players robbing one grave each, to ensure that cultists don't get a run at grave dust. The second component is the two scummiest people, as voted by investigators, robbing two graves each, to tie them up should they actually be scum. If either grave robbers get an item, they know the other didn't rob the grave and can report back. If scum lie and say they picked up an item just to mislynch the other, we'll catch them during the flip. It is therefore essential that town MUST follow the plan

Vote B seems geared towards pitting the two resus claimers against each other, probably assuming one is cult and the other is town. I have no idea why Andrius is involved, perhaps that's Wicked's pick of scum.

I think vote A is best, and I vote that


Seacore: Vote A

We've got a couple of days to get a tally. We'll post the winner before the deadline/hammer.

[Seacore]

I've looked over Wicked's posts in regards to his plan (Plan B) and I've found some issues with it.

1) He points out it's geared towards murderers (or potential murderers) more than it is towards cultists.
But he also points out that waiting until Night 1 to start your murdering plan is dumb, because it makes it so much harder to win.
Well, we've only got one murderer who meets this criteria, maybe two if there was a double up (either cult also tried to kill LB, and a murderer attacked Wicked, or both murderers attacked LB, or whatever) but the odds are, we've got 1 potential murderer until we see what happens tonight.

So given there's only 1 murderer who meets Wicked's own declaration of 'a murderer with a chance at winning' lets focus on the 7 cultists.

2) Andrius, I still don't know why he's the other person in the plan. It seems like it's Wicked's choice. I agree that Andrius is scummy, but I think we should go with group decisions in this.

3) As AV just mentioned, it screws with laundering. All three bloody people are forced to stay bloody. (This isn't too big a deal, because they're also forced to take no other action, so we know they can't be getting fresh blood)

[Seacore]

Wraith- vote for a graverob plan.

Vote A - 4 votes
Vote B - 0 votes.

[Seacore]

Lets have less people missing/dodging the grave rob vote please. We wouldn't want to make it possible to accuse you of trying to keep as much chaos in the night plan as possible, now would we?

[Seacore]

Plan A hits scum the same way that the NP/Feysal dichotomy hits scum. It makes them waste their entire night and gain two insanities.
The difference is that Plan A is choosing 'scum' from a group decision, i.e. The 2nd and 3rd wagons.

Plan A has 4 people we feel are town (to varying degrees), Wicked, Hito, Benmage and VP. Each of them are taking a single insanity. This is not terrible, in fact, it makes them better Communers later on. However it's also taking the popularly elected 'scummiest' and wasting their full night and giving them each two insanities.

I see your concern with the wards now, I hadn't read it that way.

Also, I believe Feysal is saying this:
Feysal and NP could be town, murderer (wannabes) or cult
However, as NP was the first to announce his rez of Wicked, and did so before Wicked had said that he was attacked, NP cannot be the killer of LB.
However however, NP could have attempted to murder Wicked and failed (but that's unlikely, as Wicked was almost certainly ritualled and with only one rez it would have gone though.
So NP may be cult (and probably is from my POV), but definitely cannot be the killer of LB.

[Seacore]

Fair enough, although I think ElG is easily scum with MoI

[Seacore]

Apart from the Graverob plan, I haven't really thought too much about the night actions. I know what I'm doing, and was lazy about the rest. I have no problem with VP's post at a cursory glance.
The only thing I'd add is to search for gear as an option. An option down the list, but a few more people with gear wouldn't hurt.
Still only people who warded both nights shouldn't have gear. (Apart from those who should launder)

[Seacore]

but using equipment you have is better than grabbing equipment, which is why I like your list, I just thought we shouldn't ban people from searching.

[Seacore]

Personally, I think early game, one piece of equipment is enough because we've got the numbers, but by the end of the game, where possible, we should have multiple, so we're less predictable to both flavours of scum.

[Seacore]

I'd rather El Goosuki, that wagon only died because of the deadline, it was still a more significant wagon than Baby Spice.

[Seacore]

What's your concern?

[Seacore]

Well some have heard no noises, some have been warded and others, like myself, have had their fetishes passed to them. It adds up.

Also, I think there are two, potentially three scum in that list. So that makes it a less impressive list.

Anyway, Hito, post your big post and lets get this show on the road. I think Day 3 will be a very good day for investigators.

[Seacore]

So, Wraith is immune to rituals tonight, but not to Benmage's shiny knife.
And he's said he's going to resus, which means trying to resus him will be wasted.

In short, Wraith is a bad resus target choice.

C'mon, lets get this Night on the road and force scum to deal with thanksgiving day Real Life commitments and not be available for scum chat at all (here's hoping)

[Seacore]

OKAY - NO MORE VOTING UNTIL WE GET HITO'S NIGHT ACTION INSTRUCTION POST. MOI IS AT L-1 !!!!!!

[Seacore]

Thank god Hito.

Furc, do you not even read before you post????

[Seacore]

GRAVEROBBERS SHOULD FOLLOW HITO'S DIRECTIONS, NOT TOM'S OR ANY OTHER PREVIOUS GRAVE ROB DIRECTIONS!!!


preview edit - Yeah Iecerint, but we needed it definitively, since there's been lots of contradictions.

[Seacore]

Tom, cease this, we stopped calling them Two and Three prior to the last vote, since then they've been Kunk and El G, and that's what we're sticking with. Stop confusing the matter. Hito's post stands.

[Seacore]

Okay everybody

Vote A -
RC = VP, Kunk
Fate = Benmage, El G
LB = Wicked, El G
MoI = Hito, Kunk

or

Vote B
ReaperCharlie - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Fate - Feysal and nopointinactingup
Lost Butterfly - Wickedestjr and Andrius
MoI - Wickedestjr and Andrius

[Seacore]

How is it, look at my quote!

[Seacore]

No it's not. You voted Vote A! You agreed to El G and Kunk!

[Seacore]

I changed it before people noticed? How, when I specifically stated it and got people to vote and I last minute changing it?

Somebody said, that as we approached deadline we should substitute names in. As soon as it became clear it was MoI for the lynch, I added in who was 2nd and 3rd wagon.
El G only stopped being 3rd wagon because people jumped off to get MoI because of the deadline anyway.

[Seacore]

I really don't care who does it between El G and Baby Spice, I'm just worried that we've now got two grave rob plans. The final vote between wicked's and my plans had names, I don't see what's wrong with following that.

[Seacore]

We did not, the final vote was specifically listed. No deception!

[Seacore]

Actually, worst case scenario is that they both claim to follow the other and neither robs.

[Seacore]

While BS confirming is nice, I'd rather an El G confirmation.

[Seacore]

CD3

Username:

Seacore

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes - I imagine that's me fetished again

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Nope

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate?

Yes - El G is not bloody.

Twitch?

*twitch*

I've had a brief readthrough,
El G should probably not be the lynch today. Instead, we should commission somebody to murder them. All three should be absolutely ashamed of their play, but I think they're less likely scum at this point.
MoI was probably LB's murderer. Fate was probably passed his fetish because it's a free action and why not.
I don't think spyrex is scum, however, if the rezzer doesn't step up, we might have to kill him regardless.

I'm also wishing I went the murderer route, there are so many poor decisions on town's part it's pathetic. The good news is that 3 (2/3 * 7?) scum are bloody thanks to the greater ritual. Or alternatively, whoever has claimed they rezzed Tom is a cultist themselves, was that Ice? I can't remember.

Anyway, I'm at my inlaws this week and am being far too anti-social.
I'll read some again tomorrow morning and then when I'm back home.

[Seacore]

Actually, Spyrex, fair call. Put me on board with the El G lynch. I just can't shake this feeling that they aren't scum, just a three headed village idiot.
One who's parents are siblings.

But logically, you're right, we shouldn't give them a walk for this.
Give me a day or two, (life days, not game days) I'll vote for them when I get back home.

But if they do flip town, I'll refuse to play in a game that has any of them in a hydra again.

[Seacore]

Vote El Goosuki

I'm back. I'm going to have a longer v/la coming up later this week thanks to a funeral and another in laws trip. But I'll be around for a bit before that.

I think Tom targetting Spyrex is a huge possibility. Perhaps, if the two late claimers don't claim to have used kits of Spyrex, we can use him for grave robbing? Would that appease those who have jumped on him?

But El Goosuki has got to go.

If El Goosuki has indeed taken Suicidal, only 11 are needed for the lynch, not 12... we should attempt to actively remember that, for purposes of preventing early hammers. I'd specifically direct that at Furc, but it's a waste of breath.

[Seacore]

Please explain how 8 in any way is the same as 11

[Seacore]

I'm happy Furc is on the wagon prior to hammer, fills me with less dread.

X, Spyrex - Graverob Tom
Y, Spyrex - Greverob El Goosuki

Who should X, Y be? Shouldn't be Benmage, because of the longbow potential that the two of them are scum. I'd be happy for Hito and VP.

Thoughts?

[Seacore]

Does this mean we should discuss graverobbing, Iec?

[Seacore]

Ah, you've been reading Furc's posts, now I see where you went wrong.

[Seacore]

Iec and Feysal, I've been looking for comments on the graverob option I've provided

[Seacore]

AV and Nico I think.

[Seacore]

Ah, I see now I missed AV's post, so yes, I believe Nico was the last. Now we can organise I graverob and hammer.

Also, I wouldn't mind a compilation of everybody's Night Actions so far.

4 columns wide.
ie.

Seacore - Unclaimed - Ward Triglav - Investigate El G, that kind of deal-yo, I'd do it myself, but I'd be just going through posts to do it, and I've got a feeling a couple of people have been doing it as they went.

[Seacore]

EBWOP: "I graverob" = a graverob

Just pointing out I'm not putting myself forward (although I'd be willing to do it)

[Seacore]

where did i say i could do all 3
i changed my mind obviously

Who would have thought that Furc would argue the case so well.

That case is, of course, that he shouldn't be entrusted to grave rob.

[Seacore]

My thoughts on xvart - At the time that xvart chose to stalk, we thought we'd caught 1, maybe more, scum. Furc jeopardised the town with his actions and has added nothing positive all game. In the assumption that xvart is an investigator, I don't view him as murderous or anti town for his actions. He's admitted that he won't follow through because we're bleeding numbers at the moment. It has been mentioned previously that anti-town characters need to be taken care of and that we can't waste lynches on them. It should be noted that xvart also just finished playing A Clash of Kings mafia, and town lost by leaving village idiots alive too long. His claimed stalk is fine by me, unfortunately we can't afford for him to go through with it.

My thoughts on Spyrex - The lack of resus claimer is concerning, but it's not unreasonable to think that Tom rezzed him, especially considering how Tom died. The mod has expained that all resuscitators get a message to say Success or Fail. The rule that everybody keeps quoting probably meant to say that you won't know why it failed.

My thoughts on El G, the best lynch

My thoughts on Wraith - dude, did you read their claimed N1 action, it's pretty obvious what they would have claimed their N0 action as.

[Seacore]

Also

xvart = 1 player doing 1 thing that most people disagree with + engaging in the game
El Goosuki = 3 players doing 2 things that everybody disagrees with + not engaging in the game

[Seacore]

@Trilo,

Xvart, by his own admission, was trying to remove a VI that was damaging to town, not to remove a potential cultist. So, to declare that his 'confirming' of Furc doesn't work with the stalking of Furc is false logic.

Whether or not someone agrees that Furc needs to die, and whether or not you believe xvart's claim, the claim is that he stalked so that he would have an opportunity to murder a player that is erratic, not helpful, doesn't understand the game and hammered despite being told not to. It should be noted that xvart has also said he will not follow through with the kill, due to all the investigator deaths.
I'm not trying to defend xvart with the above comment, he's definitely somebody to watch, but I'd like people who are attacking him to attack him using the actual facts.

[Seacore]

Furc, nobody, and I mean nobody, wants you to graverob.

If you'd like to have a vote to prove this, we can.

[Seacore]

EBWOP:

Sorry, that is incorrect.

Some people dont' care if you grave rob

However,

Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants you in the official graverob plan.

[Seacore]

I'm pretty sure I know the setup better than YOU, seacore.

False, for example, you want to put our 2nd and 3rd suspects robbing graves? 1 grave each? Why? What does this accomplish, if you knwo the set up so well?

ALSO IT'S ONLY YOU that doesnt want me

False

Here is an example

Agree with Seacore that furc is kinda squirrely, advocate plan that doesn't require him.

Also

Vote: <ignore Furc, and not include him an any plan>

No, I'm not going to bold it, because bold votes are for lynches.

[Seacore]

I would like more engagement with the graverob plan from everybody else.

Tom: Spyrex, X
El Goosuki: Spyrex, Y

I think X and Y I think hito and VP might be the way to go there, since we can trust them to take correct insanities.

[Seacore]

Also, I'd just like to point something out to you Furc. Please explain to me how the underlined description of yourself matches with the actual facts.

I wanted to get to play with Iecerint and Plum more, but if Xvart wants to be an idiot and kill fellow town members that is his own option. It would be a really greedy play to kill

a confirmed town who got himself confirmed by seeing misclarifications in the ruleset

as opposed to someone breaking one of the Ten Commandments (kind of kidding) .

I warded El Goosuki
MoI pushing policy lynch D1 when it should be RVS is suspicious, but he's just mad I got him lynched in ReaperCharlie's mini theme 1000.
I did not hear noise last night.

If you warded, you would have heard noise. Lynch all liars.

Because it seems to me that you didn't know, at that point, that you should have heard noise, and it was hito who pointed it out.

[Seacore]

I'm very willing to graverob, but I understand that some players have lingering concerns with me from Day 1, which is why I didn't put myself forward.
I think players with Occult Books should be avoided, unless they need to boost in insanity points, but I don't think any do, it's too possible for cultists to be on 1 or 2 points at this stage.
People who have claimed forensic kits seems to be the way to go, as they are less likely to get the insanity points other ways.

[Seacore]

Here's a quick table on all declared actions, I didn't realise how unknowns we had until I did this. Let me know if I've missed something. I've made some assumptions along the way.

[/row] [/cell]

Player	Night 0	Night 1	Night 2
Andrius	Equipped Books	Warded Benmage	Communed Xvart
AurorusVox	Uknown	Unknown	Unknown
Baby Spice	Warded MagnaofIllusion	Unknown	Unknown
Benmage	Stalked Fate	Stalked Spyrex - Target claimed D3	Murdered Spyrex
Nicodemus/Bowser	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown
El Goosuki	Equipped Forensic Kit	Investigated xvart	Cowered
Fate	Equipped Occult Books	Dead	He Dead!
Feysal	Equipped Resuscitation Kit	Protected Wickedestjr	Unknown
Furcolow	Warded El Goosuki.	Searched for Rez Kit.	Warded Iec
Furpants_Tom	Unknown	Unknown	Dead, but maybe Rezzed someone (Spyrex?)
hitogoroshi	Equiped Forensics	Warded Trilobite	Investigate Nico and graverob x1
kunkstar7	Unknown	Unknown	Robbed Graves x2
Lost Butterfly	Unknown	Dead	Dead
MagnaofIllusion	Unknown (Seems he stalked LB)	Unknown (Seems he murdered LB)	Dead
Plum	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown
ReaperCharlie	Equipped Resuscitation Kit	Dead	Dead
Wraith/rewq455	Ward ReaperCharlie	Unknown	Unknown
Seacore	Equipped Forensics	Warded Triglav	Investigated ElGoo
SpyreX	Unknown	Unknown	Communed AV
Nopoint/SSBF	Equipped Resuscitation Kit	Protected Wickedestjr	Laundered
totallynotmafia	Unknown	Unknown	investigated xvart
Triglav	Unknown	Unknown	Commune Nopoint
Trilobite	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown
VasudeVa	Unknown	Unknown	Investigated Plum
VP Baltar	Unknown	Unknown	Commune Trilo and Grave rob x1
Wickedestjr	Unknown	Unknown	Investigated Andrius and Grave Rob x1
iec/manho/wingless	Unknown	Unknown	Resus Tom
xvart	Unknown	Unknown	stalked Furc

[Seacore]

Everybody:

El G is the lynch for today. I believe we have enough people willing at this point

We need to do 3 things before the lynch.
1) Clear up xvart's N3 action. Personally, I vote that if El G flips with excess insanities, he should go through with it.
2) Organise the grave rob
3) Post a Night action post for people to not ignore. Wicked, I'm looking in your direction.

xvart, in particular, I'd like you to post your N0 and N1 actions.

[Seacore]

Actually, investigating resolves before the ritual.

Investigating only finds blood from the previous night's actions, and only on those who haven't laundered yet. So El G could have performed the ritual and I still wouldn't have found any blood, assuming they were clean the night before, or they laundered and ritualled, given that ritual is a free action.

[Seacore]

@ Benmage, correct.

Which is why we need to hold people accountable when they do not follow grave rob plans. El G could have been bloody from actions on N1, if she had robbed both graves, should could not have laundered (or ritualled) and I could have caught her.
But she didn't graverob.
And claimed to have cowered. And you are presenting no accountability for this?
Graverob plans MUST be upheld at penalty of death, which is also why I don't want Furc involved in them, because I don't want to waste a lynch on him.

[Seacore]

It is possible for Cultists, Murderers and Potential Murderers to never be found bloody.
For murderers and potential murderers, this really slows them down, because they must follow the pattern of Stalk - Murder - Launder - Stalk - Murder - Launder, etc
For Cultists, it's easier Craft a fuck load of fetishes - Ritual - Launder/Ritual - Launder/Ritual - Launder/Ritual.

Investigation NEVER clears somebody (except potentially in a double grave rob scenario), it just doesn't incriminate them. That's why these rules are so awesome, it's really hard to confirm somebody as TOWN, despite being able to confirm them as investigator and even then, barely.

[Seacore]

El G claimed a Night 1 action that had only 1 possible result, a "not bloody". Therefore, she could claim the results without waiting to see how the chips fell. She did this after claiming to have read Hito's guide.
Therefore the night action was both inconsistent with previous statements and also completely unfalsifiable.

Night 2, after a whole Day2 of giving El G shit for picking a bad night action, she claims to have submitted no night action and therefore cowering. This claim is inconsistent with a statement she made during Day 2

El Goosuki agrees to the plan, if only to keep itself from doing stupid night actions.

-DGB

This claim also allows for an insanity point and has no accountability, due to it interacting with no other character.

And as Hito says, El Goosuki already has game-meta for being useless and scummy, so why not really go to town?

Now that we have Benmage willing to hammer, lets get on with the graverob plan.

[Seacore]

EBWOP: it's unclear, that EL G quote is in response to the plan for them to be a double graverobber

[Seacore]

Okay,

Grave Rob Plan, Night 3, Draft 1.1

El Goosuki - Trilo and Spyrex
Furpants Tom - Seacore and Spyrex

The reasons for this are as follows. Spyrex is considered scummy (although lets not forget Kunk and Baby Spice who were yesterday's other options) and therefore should have his entire night blocked of, in case he is indeed cultist. This will enable somebody to investigate him and find blood from previous nights, and also give him two insanity points, soaking up easy to hide/acceptable insanities and making it harder for him to hide more later on.
Seacore and Trilo have been chosen as two non-communers with low insanity, who have been considered fairly town. Previous "obv-town" players have been avoided so they don't get shit loads of insanitiy by end game.
I have chosen myself to rob Tom, because if he indeed had a rez kit, and still has it a) I'd like it and b) it would prove he did not rez spyrex (since it would have been used up). I'd only get the kit if spyrex doesn't follow the plan, so to clarify - Me getting a rez kit means spyrex didn't follow the plan and wasn't rezzed by tom, very damning. However not getting the rez kit means nothing.
Trilo gets to rob el goo, because I already have a forensic kit. Again, it shouldn't matter, because spyrex will follow the plan.

Thoughts, Comments?

[Seacore]

Xvart.

If you are cult, you can have the ritual hit Furc (we could be so lucky) and then have one of your cult buddies step in and say "I rezzed furc" so your murder is allegedly soaked but the cult gets him.

If you are town and decide to murder furc, cult could step in and simulatenously rez and ritual furc (we could be so lucky) and it would look exactly the same as above.

So actually, xvart going through with the murder does nothing....... except..... that Furc can decide to rez somebody thus eliminating all rez effects upon himself, so a murder would show up no matter what cult shenadigans came through.

However, this involves Furc agreeing and then sticking to the plan. So I say we abandon it. Xvart, I appreciate the sentiment, but don't follow through with the murder.


And xvart, as for El G, did you not read the post where I showed that 'cowering' is perfect cover for a launder/ritual? Especially since we've already proved that we don't have the balls to lynch somebody for not following instructions. So hey, lets keep that rule and have no accountability.

[Seacore]

My point, xvart, is that murdering him, particularly due to Furc's unreliability, doesn't confirm you, since there's too much that can go wrong. And at this point, we need all the town numbers we can get.

So I propose we deal with his quick hammering by treating hammer zones as L-2 if he's off the wagon, and L-1 if he's on the wagon.

[Seacore]

Okay, since we've settled it, xvart is not going to kill Furc under any circumstances, I'd really like you all to start focussing on the grave rob plan

Both Trilo and I are willing to do it and neither of us has plans to do immediate occulting. So... please all weigh in. Lets get this day over with!


Preview Edit: We don't have to Spyrex, I was just trying to collate it, because at the time I thought it would be more useful than it turned out to be. However, I think (but don't strongly believe) that there may be merit in getting highly suspected people to claim all their actions.

[Seacore]

I'm not sure, Spyrex.

I think Tom's death, happening despite Iec's resus attempt, could have occured because
a) Someone tried to murder Tom, Iec stopped that, and the ritual got through
b) A greater ritual was performed, so Iec was insufficient to stop it
c) Tom resus'd someone (maybe you) and thus he was unable to be resus'd himself

I've yet to see evidence that all three are not possible. But I could be wrong.

[Seacore]

Andrius, there's a bunch wrong with what you've said, but It's already been mentioned.

xvart cannot confirm himself as non-cult because scum can fuck it up, and should because it'll lead to a quick mislynch.

But finally, to a huge concern I have.
How does obsession work? Does it just mean you have to commune two nights in a row, or do you have to commune for forever? Because if the latter is true, you're going to be pretty damn insane by the end of it.

[Seacore]

@ Spyrex, excellent, then you are correct. That is one fact I missed.

As for this...

I am more suspicious of hito and Seacore after reading the last few pages. Villifying Furco is senseless and cannot serve any purpose other than to set up a despair-based mislynch down the line.

What the hell are you on about?

[Seacore]

Ah, I see, you haven't read the rest of the game before you posted, I understand your mistake now.

I don't want xvart to kill Furco at all.

[Seacore]

Iec, I don't really see how you can have a problem with a bunch of us having a problem with Furc.
Do you really think he won't be a liability from Day 6 onwards?

At some stage, assuming we actually get some runs on the board, I will stalk and murder him, or at the very least, give somebody else permission to do so. This will be a protown act in my opinion.
However, that time is not now.

[Seacore]

Andrius, the three examples you've given show exactly how he cannot be confirmed.

Because we cannot tell the difference between the 1st one and the 3rd one.

So if xvart is a cultist and we call his bluff, he can have Furc ritualled and then have one of his scum buddies step forward and say "I rezzed him"
Alternative, scum can easily set it up so that it looks like that happened.
It gets more confusing because Furc, having a rez kit, can negate all rezes targetted on him. So that's the only way to actually confirm xvart, but Furc isn't reliable so lets dismiss that.

[Seacore]

A good and wise man.

Although, PERSONALLY, if one of the wonder twins had to go first I'd go Ben but.

I disagree. I dislike Benmage's playing style. I think he's made a lot of mistakes and he thinks that he's an awesome scum hunter when he's just a competent one.

Furc is a loose cannon that can destroy this game.

As an example, I managed to convince Benmage that, in the long term, a policy of lynching anybody who doesn't follow the graverob plan must be enforced.

Nobody has been able to convince Furc of anything except that shaking keys in your hand is both jingly and shiny.

One of these players is more of a liability than the other.

[Seacore]

Icerint, fair enough.
No, you don't have me confused, I did say it and I was serious at the time, but hito and others convinced me that I was wrong, plus I thougth through the maths a little and realised that it's just a clusterfuck of WIFOM so lets not go with it.

Furco got lynched because he acted against town directions, so it's chicken or egg there. But fine, I'm not looking to discuss what to do N5 at this point, in fact, I've been agreeing with you, Furco shouldn't die now, we need him if only for the numbers.

SO CAN WE PLEASE HAVE MORE GRAVE ROB DISCUSSION PLEASE!

[Seacore]

Well I'm still worried about BS/Kunk, but a policy of going after current scum reads is possibly better, it means if we're wrong we haven't stacked all of the insanities on a single person.

But we should refer to Baby Spice and Kunk more often, because Baby Spice in particular, but also Kunk, were read as very scummy yesterday, and it's important that we don't forget about Baby Spice and Kunk

[Seacore]

I think we're already at 11:55 in fact.

To do list
1) Get the graverob plan organised
2) Hito posts his thread and we make several posts underneath it in large bold
3) We tell xvart again not to murder furc
4) We lynch el goosuki.

If this all happened in the next 5 minutes, I'd be cool with it.

I'm only engaging with Furc because I'm waiting for all the other things to happen, and because Furc was trying to provide poorer alternatives.

[Seacore]

Under no circumstances should the town condone a murder of a confirmed townie.

I disagree with this. But I agree with it in terms of todays actions, so we can discuss it later when it's relevant.

[Seacore]

Lets discuss this when it's relevant, rather than clutter up what should be a grave rob discussion.

[Seacore]

No, Andy's point is that he believes Furc is attempting the murderer win condition and thus needs to be killed by town.
This is an important distinction to my belief that Furc is attempting the investigator win condition but is jeopardising it by being Furc, and thus needs to be killed by town.

The second argument can be disagreed with by saying "Town should never kill town, no matter what", however, the first argument still stands after this.

[Seacore]

So anyway, in light of all the ways this can be messed up. I won't kill Furcolow tonight.

Awesome, only a graverob plan and hito's post to go, a productive day.

[Seacore]

So Furc, your selling point is that you are so crap that the cult won't kill you, but xvart, who could be dangerous to cult, would be killed? This is your defence?

[Seacore]

Okay, everybody. Whoever is willing to vote El G, please pile on. Some people have changed there mind, so I'm not sure if all the people who said they would hammer when it was at L-1 will make up the difference.

[Seacore]

Another big yellow creature! Afraid we might lynch one of your fellow cultpals instead of an embattled, feeble-minded townie?

-DGB

Do you genuinely believe I am town, and that I am acting to protect Nico? Or spyrex? or xvart?, or somebody else? or is this just rhetoric.

I know the answer already, but I'm typing this to call you on it.

[Seacore]

i genuinely believe you are cult, and that you are acting to commandeer lynches

Then I must be really bad at it, or just really really subtle.

Considering I did everything I could yesterday to not get MoI lynched, and it turned out he wasn't cult (but was a murderer, good job people on that wagon).

And today I'm 8th on El Goosuki's wagon. 8th!

In other news, I was actually asking that question of El Goosuki.

[Seacore]

That's L-2, unless I've miscounted.

[Seacore]

EBWOP: According to the last vote count we have
7 - Wraith, Trilobite, SpyreX, hitorogoshi, Baby Spice, kunkstar7, Seacore, (El G jumped off her wagon so I've removed that)
And since then we've had AV and VP join.

So that's 9. How is that 12 xvart?

[Seacore]

join us on the wagon xvart, it's comfy.

[Seacore]

xvart, if you're waiting for a straight answer from Furc, I'll be over in the corner waiting for hell to freeze over.

And then after Satan and I finish practicing our figure skating routine, I'll come and get you


Because you will still be waiting


Because furc will never give a stable straight answer that won't be contradicted by one of his next three posts.


In short, please hammer and end the day.

[Seacore]

To continue being candid, our play has been so bad, we would probably scream for our own lynch if we didn't know our alignment.

-DGB

So your bad play here was okay to lynch you for, but your continued worse play is a scum excuse?

Also, I'll note you didn't answer my question about whether you thought I was scum.

[Seacore]

Bam!

EVERYBODY MUST FOLLOW HITO'S POST, INCLUDING THE GRAVEROB ROSTER AND ALLOWABLE INSANITIES. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO SPECIAL CASES. PENALTY OF NOT FOLLOWING THE GUIDE IS DEATH, SO DO NOT MAKE US WASTE A LYNCH ON YOU.

And I mean that. None of this "oh you guys shouldn't have lynched me, I'm obv-town, which is why I did X and took Y as an insanity" If you don't follow the guide, you will be lynched, and it will be your fault, not ours.

[Seacore]

Also, just a thought that came to me while choosing an insanity,

We have lots of players who did not vote today, we should force them prove they don't have distraction and/or sadism tomorrow. Or rather, get them modkilled if they don't prove they don't. It wouldn't be hard to make up a roster of people that could have sadism (as of now, not counting tonight's insanity gains), distraction has a larger pool of possibles, so we may not have the patience for that, but it shouldn't be too hard. I think I might make a post about insanities and proving you don't have them. If I have time before the thread closes.


Preview edit: Andrius, what?

[Seacore]

Twitchy is great for a declared insanity "I was stabbed but somebody rezzed me" "I graverobbed like you told me to"
Twitchy is bad if you're not supposed to have an insanity.

"Hey guys, Nothing happened tonight *twitch*"

Many other insanities are better for staying under the radar. But we're at the stage that it would be worth calling people on some of them.

[Seacore]

(iv) Suicidal - You require one less vote to lynch. This is not reflected in vote counts and does not affect Sadism.

Probably the easiest one for cultists to hide, since if you get to L-1, you're probably going to be lynched anyway. And it's safe because we can put people at L-1 and then discuss, and if they haven't declared suicidal, bam!

(v) Distraction - Your vote, once placed on another player, cannot revert to a player you voted to lynch earlier that Day.

Can be tested at the start of each day, although it's cumbersome, but who knows, we might catch one.

(vi) Paranoid - If at least one player has voted for you today, you may only vote players who have voted you today.

Can be tested, we get somebody towny to vote for everybody, and then we have other people try and vote for somebody else.

(ix) Sadism - You may only place your votes on players who are one or two votes away from a lynch.

Again, very easy to catch people at this one, and it should be tested.

I started to write about all the insanities, but then I realised I'm helping cultists choose good insanities, so I deleted it all except for the above.

All of these are things we can check for, in thread. Suicidal would be possible, but not practical, but we shouldn't be afraid of bringing people to L-1 if they haven't declared suicidal, because we might catch them out.
The other three can all be checked.

I ask that nobody vote during Day 4, until we discuss whether to start looking into these.

[Seacore]

It's like the SA:II's plan to get them to commit infractions, but more violent!

[Seacore]

CD4

Username:

Seacore

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, robbing El G, and Solist

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Solist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Yep, Plum isn't bloody

Are you bloody?

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

I'm okay with the Spyrex lynch. I feel the same way about him as I felt about MoI, and given that I was wrong there I'm happy to be overruled by players I've come to trust. Let's discuss the graverob.

I'm dissapointed that people have jumped onto spyrex, as this will make it difficult to start testing insanities. I think I'd like to see us organise a test for sadism at least.

[Seacore]

Wicked was dumb to take suicidal.
Perhaps scum are just as dumb.

I don't like your instant dismissal of something that is incredibly easy to check, Wraith.

Here's what we're going to do.

Vote: Andrius Unvote
Vote:AurorusVox Unvote
Vote:Baby Spice Unvote
Vote:Benmage Unvote
Vote:Feysal Unvote
Vote:hitorogoshi Unvote
Vote:Iecerint Unvote
Vote:kunkstar7 Unvote
Vote:Nicodemus Unvote
Vote:nopointinactingup Unvote
Vote:Plum Unvote
Vote:totallynotmafia Unvote
Vote:Triglav Unvote
Vote:Trilobite Unvote
Vote:VasudeVa Unvote
Vote:VP Baltar Unvote
Vote:Wraith Unvote
Vote:xvart Unvote
Vote:Wraith Unvote
Vote:xvart Unvote

There, I've voted for everybody.

Mod, please let me know if this does not count, by the rules, as voting for everybody, because I can do one vote per post if it is neccesary

So, now that I've voted for everybody, I want everybody to do the following. Note: I've avoided Spyrex, just in case he's at L-1

Vote: Benmage. Unvote.
Vote: Hito. Unvote.
Vote Benmage. Unvote
Vote: Hito. Unvote

Why I've chosen the names is not important, I just picked people who are unlikely to be lynched today.
But, this will test 3 insanities.
1) It will test Sadism 4 times, as none of those people are on L-2
2) It will test distraction twice, by returning both to the Benmage vote and to the Hito vote
3) It will test paranoia 4 times, as I've now voted for everybody, they should only be able to vote for me.

You'll note that I've also been cleared at this point, I've voted for a crap load of people who aren't at L-2, I've revoted twice at the end. I can't be tested for paranoia at this point, but once we get everybody else out of the way, we can do it.

There is no reason not to do this. I agree, it was a bad idea for scum to take any of these insanities, but if we check this each day, we confine what insanities they can take under the radar.

[Seacore]

@Kunk, correct.

Thematically, we're forcing the cultists to take their elder gods' names in vain, and watching as the elder gods' rip the souls from their bodies.

Actually, as an addition to my plan. Spyrex should vote for me, vote for somebody else who hasn't voted for him, vote for me again, and then vote for that second person again.

Then I can prove I don't have paranoia by voting for somebody else twice.

[Seacore]

To those people who are saying "But scum would be dumb to take these insanities"

1) Shut up
2) It's only dumb for them to take them if we regularly check for them
3) It's also all about limiting what insanities they can take.

Insanities fall into one or more of 4 categories.

Category 1 - Those are immediately detectable. - Such as twitchy
Category 2 - Those that can be actively detected - Such as the three we're checking for above.
Category 3 - Those that hurt - Such as necrophilia
Cateogry 4 - Those that are easy to hide and don't hurt so much - Such as sociopathy

Now, obviously scum will take category 4s for their hidden insanities and Category 1s as their 'allowed' insanities (for when we say they can graverob, or when they lie about resus) but eventually they'll run out of those. And we want to funnel them into Category 3 insanities, because it makes catching them easier in the long run.

[Seacore]

Also, nobody should vote at this point, until we get Percy's Green light.

[Seacore]

Your plan?

[Seacore]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

[Seacore]

Major FOS at Wraith and Kunk.


Seriously, I was very clear about what you should do.

So, now that I've voted for everybody, I want everybody to do the following. Note: I've avoided Spyrex, just in case he's at L-1

Vote: Benmage. Unvote.
Vote: Hito. Unvote.
Vote Benmage. Unvote
Vote: Hito. Unvote

[Seacore]

Okay, lets have a look at what both Wraith and Kunk did and see whether it fucked anything up. I don't think it did, but I want to be thorough.

They are both cleared of Paranoia, since they've both voted for a bunch of people who haven't voted for them, after I did vote for them. And they've done it more than twice, which would have meant Modkill.
They are both cleared of Sadism, since they've both voted for people who were not at L-2, and they did it more than twice, so they'd be modkilled.
They are

NOT

cleared of distraction, since they've returned to someone they previously voted for only once, which means an insanity infraction, but not a modkill.

So both Wraith and Kunk need to Vote Benmage, unvote, vote spyrex. Then we'll know for certain.

Actually, I just checked the wording

If a player would receive a second Insanity Infraction PM for the same offence, or a third for any reason, instead they will be modkilled.

That is vague on whether a second Insanity Infraction for the same offence will cause the modkill. Since it all happens in the same post, it might just come in the one PM...
I doubt the mod will clarify this, which is fair enough.
Still, it's worth doing.

[Seacore]

SPYREX!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Pay attention people! Voting for everybody in the game was just for me, so we could adequately test for Paranoia. Stop voting for everybody and just do the Hito/Benmage votes!!!!

[Seacore]

Yes, thank you.

I've just realised I can't test Hito and Benmage... I'll think of it and see if I can fix this tomorrow. BUt I think we can afford to leave out Hito and Benmage today.

[Seacore]

Baby spice.

No.


The instruction was to vote for Benmage and Hito, but whatever.

But people will vote for the same two people, This will ensure that paranoia is checked. For today anyway, by tomorrow I will have a better way to test it that won't leave out two people.

[Seacore]

Okay, I've sorted it, I know how to run it tomorrow so that everybody can be tested. But I won't post it because it won't work now and it'll confuse everything else.\

Hito, in your instruction kit, can you please instruct nobody to vote until we do the insanity testing.

[Seacore]

Thats cool, it's not a big deal, since it still covers all the bases.

What I was jumping in to shake my head at was your "vote for the person below you and then above you" business. That won't work. But don't worry, I have my plan.

[Seacore]

Yes Andrius, we are doing the insanity testing now.

[Seacore]

Well, you could take the time to read a page

Or instead

Vote: Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote. Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito, Unvote.

[Seacore]

Sigh, the big list was for a single person (this time: Me) to do, so that Paranoia could be sufficiently tested.

This two person double vote proves you don't have paranoia (because otherwise you could only vote for me), that you don't have sadism (because neither of those two people are at L-2) and that you don't have distraction, (because you can revote both of them)

[Seacore]

@ Trilo

Follow the plan, with the correct people.
And you have not sufficiently been tested. There is a reason we double it up, because doing it once would only get yourself a single infraction, which is dealt with privately. Doing it twice would, potentially, get you modkilled.

VP, if somebody refuses to take part in this test, then I'd rather lynch them than Spyrex, because I believe it is more concrete evidence.

[Seacore]

Me too, but I know him IRL, so the real possibility of a revenge crotch kick is on the table, which will make us even.

[Seacore]

Still waiting on correct testing to be completed by:

Iecerint
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
totallynotmafia
Trilobite

[Seacore]

Unfortunately, tomorrow will be worse, since hopefully a lot of that was done with copy and paste...

[Seacore]

Exactly. I agree Trilo, they would be dumb insanities to take. But they stop being dumb insanities to take if scum can convince us that it is a waste of time to test for them.
It costs nothing (except for Percy's patience) to spend the first few pages of each day testing them, so why not?

[Seacore]

Benmage,

It is correct, that scum only need one of their number to perform the ritual (unless they go for the greater ritual), however, warding graves gives insanity, crafting fetishes, passing fetishes, resuscitating and graverobbing all do too.

And if they are piling up their insanities on one person, we've potentially got a person out there who has 5 or more insanities at this point. So hunting for voting insanities is even more important.

[Seacore]

Vote Andrius

I'd be much happier with this lynch than spyrex.

[Seacore]

@Iecerint - Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote. Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote

[Seacore]

Yeah, you're right AV, my bad. Someone else said it and I didn't check. I thought it was 1 for normal ritual and 1/3 for greater, and I was wrong.

Well this is even better news. Cultists have a bunch of insanity between them.

[Seacore]

I think some prompts are necessary.

On the Spyrex front, I'm going to pretty much echo Trilo. I don't feel that an unclaimed rez is a sufficient point to damn him. I'm really not comfortable with TNM (I think it was him) trying to set that up as a default. Make's mislynches too 'automatic' and easy.

For the other points against him, I'm not convinced, but I can see their merit. In a way, I'm comfortable with the case but I expect him to flip investigator. I've debated writing that because it feels like something scum would say, but it's true. And given how wrong I was on the MoI front, (although he wasn't cult, yay me?), I'm willing to be lead.

Re: the defence of Andrius, I think meta can be discarded in a game like this. It is too easy for scum to blend in with everybody "not understanding" the game. Particularly when we had people like Furc in it. So just because someone's scum meta is to jump in and get over-involved doesn't mean they'd do it as scum in this game.

[Seacore]

Just waiting on Nico and Nopoint.

[Seacore]

@VP, just quickly before I go to bed. I mean being lead by the crowd to lynching Spyrex. As in, I understand the cast, and despite my gut feeling that he's town, I'm willing to lynch him over several other people.

I'll try and articulate my scum feel on Andrius tomorrow.

[Seacore]

two things are missing from that to do list Triglav. The NoPoint and Nico need to post do the voting test.

And both of them need to contribute some opinions/ or be replaced.

[Seacore]

mafia is not a top priority), and so I cowered and took twitchy.

I am definitely okay with graverobbing.

Well I'm definitely not, since what happens if you go away again.

But thank you for doing the test, now we just need nopoint.

[Seacore]

There's always aversion, or whatever the no-voting one is, if we really want to tax poor Percy. :X

Please expand on this insanity, as I've looked for it and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Seacore]

@kunk, do you mean they have been removed since the start of this game or that they were SAII insanities?

[Seacore]

I think Nico's attitude means that he should see if Percy has a replacement waiting in the wings. If there is no replacement, Nico makes an excellent candidate for somebody to confirm themselves as an investigator in a day or two.

[Seacore]

Personally, I'd like Plum to stalk and murder Nico.

[Seacore]

Benmage, we're waiting for nopoint to pass the test, although that should probably be discarded. If we get to night before the replacement, the role can't do anything anyway.

Graverob is not finalised.
Hito has not posted his night action list.
Sanctioned stalking has not been agreed to.

Benmage, I'd be realyl happy if you didn't have Andrius as your "town" component of the graverob.

Does anybody disagree that Plum should stalk Nico, and then kill him during N5?

[Seacore]

Actually, sorry, somehow I glazed over VV's post. I'm also happy for that.

I agree to sanctioning AV to stalk Nico and Murder him during N5.

[Seacore]

Why do you find Andrius so town? he's approaching the top of my scum list personally.

[Seacore]

Yeah, I agree with Nico on the two person target.

It should be a single person, easier to hold them liable.

[Seacore]

Nacho, please declare your insanities before reading. There is no town reason not to.

Assuming you do not have vote limiting insanities, please do the following.

Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote. Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote.
This is to prove you have none of the voting limitations. All other players have done this.

[Seacore]

No Nacho, listing insanities without reading is a town act, do so immediately.

[Seacore]

Nacho,

I will explain my two requests separately.

Declaring all of your insanities - We have all declared all of our insanities, both quantity and quality. I wanted you to do this immediately so you didn't have time, as scum, to work out your best option of claims. I wanted a time stamped very fast claim. This has passed. I still want you to do this, but opportunity for towny points have been lost.

The voting test - We have all done this and I still want you to do this. There are three insanities that cause voting limitations. Depending on your interpretation of the OP, breaking the same insanitiy rule twice may cause you to be modkilled. My voting script I have asked you to complete tests all three twice. Everybody has already done this excluding your slot. Tomorrow I will have a better script that will enable everybody to be properly tested, as it currently stands, Benmage and Hito were probably not effectively tested, by being the two token targets, but I'm confident they aren't cult.

[Seacore]

Nacho,

everybody will be tested every day for voting insanities. So do it now. You can still be adequately tested, only Benmage and Hito can't today.

[Seacore]

ElG: Benmage, Plum
Furc: Andrius, AV
Wicked: Xvart, AV
Spyrex: Seacore, Plum


I've chosen plum for xvart, but it can easily be swapped out for one of his other noms.
My biggest concern currently is the Andrius/AV rob, but I'm being out voted on this so that's fine.

[Seacore]

I'm cool with that, I forgot about VPB, and I was just copying Hito's template.

[Seacore]

Nacho,

I don't expect to catch scum testing voting insanities (except maybe today, since people didn't know we'd be doing it, which is why I want you to do it)
However, by testing the three voting insanities every day, we effectively remove those as options for scum. This limits them to other, far more detrimental insanities.

I'm playing a longterm game with this one. If the cultists have been stacking their insanities on the same three cultists, we've got some out there with 4 insanities at least. The more insanities we regularly test for, the fewer they can take off the radar.

[Seacore]

okay, well I only wanted you to do the last bit, which is precisley what I asked you to do, but whatever.

Anyway, to further expand on my insanity checking.

There are 15 insanities open to cultists.
7 of them suck for the cultists. 6 of them really suck and the 7th only a little, but still
5 of the others are really easy to check for, although one of those only as we approach end game.
That leaves 3.
I'm working on theories on how to check those.

But if a cultist wants to take the risk and pick from the five that can be checked, or wants to hide it more effectively and pick from the ones that suck. I don't care. Sooner or later, every cultists will get to insanity number 4, because any that go too far above that will be caught.

[Seacore]

I agree to grave rob, I also agree to go back to Spyrex's posts if it is revealed he is an investigator.

[Seacore]

You don't get an insanity by successfully rezzing, just by being rezzed

[Seacore]

@Hito.

My current thoughts on tomorrow's insanity testing is as follows.
Players are listed 1-18 (or however many people survive.
Player 1 votes for everybody similar to the way I did.
Everybody, including player 1, votes for the two players beneath them on the list. Player 1 votes for Player 2 and 3. Player 2 votes for Player 3 and 4. Player 17 votes for player 18 and 1, player 18 votes for player 1 and 2.
Votes are like they were today Vote X, Unvote, Vote Y, Unvote, X, unvote, Y, unvote.
This allows everybody to be tested thoroughly.

[Seacore]

The action list was mine

[Seacore]

I'm not too worried about that VP. Having chat all night and all day (except for those who may have taken Sociopathy) means they'l always be more able to plot than the rest of us, and it doesn't take too much to make good plans when everybody is on the same page.
Our plans suck because we can't tell the difference between "I don't understand this game", "I'm not really paying attention to this game" and "I'm pretending to not understand and not pay attention because I'm scum". They are more able to tell the difference.

But yes, I think we should just head to night now. The graverob is done. Benmage can either post his list or not, at this point it's not a big deal.

Unvote. Vote Spyrex

[Seacore]

I agree with the list and with hito's nomination

[Seacore]

I agree with the plan

[Seacore]

Go Go hammer

[Seacore]

VV has gone V/LA so somebody else should hammer.

I agree with Benmage being off the resus list, tempt the scum with some low hanging fruit.

[Seacore]

CD5

Username:

Seacore

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, I got two, from stalking and from getting a fetish, AGAIN!

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and solist, and now obsession and taboo-investigate

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

Nope

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Nope

Are you bloody?

Nope

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

I stalked Baby Spice and was unsuccessful

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: Seacore

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

It's not looking good for Baby Spice.

Meanwhile, should we ask Percy if, hypothetically, Benmage's answers would pass as meeting the twitchy requirements.

[Seacore]

I'm willing to stalk again and then murder, although it'll mean I can't commune very usefully.

[Seacore]

Fact: Town did not ward Baby Spice
Fact: Murder did not ward Baby Spice
Therefore
Fact: Cult warded Baby Spice

Therefore
Possibility 1: Cult warded town baby spice - Wasted a night action to set up a mislynch
Possibility 2: Cult warded cult baby spice - Spent a night action to protect their buddy.

In possibility 1 they could have just waited for one of us to kill Baby Spice the next night, although that would have meant a day of actual scum hunting and maybe the scum fear that.

[Seacore]

AV, any night that you gain an insanity, you have to twitch.

[Seacore]

He got passed a fetish when I did, and I think he was on the stalk list?

[Seacore]

I'm busy at work, although nothing looks like I have to contribute much too.

I would like to raise the motion that we wait until after new year to end the day. If we have night over the christmas break we will have too much "Oh, I just didn't get to my computer, I was v/la the whole time." to handle.

[Seacore]

Benmage, why are the Tri brothers on the kill list?

[Seacore]

I would love a ward, when the time comes. Since they gots no fetish of me no more.

[Seacore]

BS,

Let's say that you're right, most of us think that the GM is letting it slide, since Benmage met 'most' of the requirements, but lets say that you're right.

Benmage cannot be a murderer, or even if he is a murderer, he cannot win until day 11 or something.
So the only risk is that Benmage is cult. Which is really bloody unlikely.

[Seacore]

Well, that settles it, Baby Spice has got to be scum. If she were an investigator, given that it's pretty unlikely that all three of her stalkers are scum,

she'd be trying to warn everyone that cult were warding people on the do not ward list,

as that would be the only likely explanation for what happened. Instead she's more worried about trying to shift the attention onto Benmage.

Why would the cult ward someone when that person would become the obvious lynch target, unless it was to cause a mis-lynch?

Hell, why would they ward someone you were going to scream at anyway?

I'm not happy with this attack by TNM.
I agree that Baby Spice is scummy, for multiple reasons, but not this one, since she's done it, and to push it any further is just more WIFOM. She's done the only sensible thing for town or scum, and that is to pursue another case.
The case that she's persuing is dumb, and makes her look more scummy, but TNM's reason here is faulty.

It feels like a bussing reason, like he was looking for a way to jump on the bandwagon without sheeping.

[Seacore]

My picks for remaining 6 scum.

Andrius
AurorusVox
Baby Spice
Nicodemus
Plum
totallynotmafia

[Seacore]

But Baby Spice

did

answer the question. She believes that cult warded town in an effort to create a mislynch.

I can't see any way to answer the question you asked that would be satisfactory. She's already said that she thinks the only reason cult would ward anybody on that list would be to ward town to create a mislynch. Ergo she also believes that cult would not ward cult.

To say "some town person must have warded me" would be stupid. a) town were told not to and b) we'd jump all over her saying "how did you know it was town, was it because none of your cult buddies warded you?"

And she is of course not going to accuse three of us of being cultists and lying about stalking her, especially since she heard noise.

So the only answer she could give to your question was an answer she has already given.

[Seacore]

I'll be on Limted access until after new years. I stress limited because I'll likely be around, using my inlaws computer.

I wish everybody a merry christmas, and even the cultists should enjoy their Shogofthuculic celebrations.

This is a time for family, even if your family has the face and spirit of an elder god.

[Seacore]

I don't even understand the case on BS.

*cough*Wardedlastnight*cough*

Thanks for the tldr.

That case is retarded. Too much WIFOM, not enough ASSOCIATIONS TO THE RECENTLY FLIPPED SCUMBAG *HINT* *HINT* *FUCKINGHINT*.

BS is an obv-WIFOMWARD target.

People have unanimously thought her scummy for 150 fucking pages

. If I were a member of a 6 man scumteam and Townies are like 'DOODZ, LETZ STALK PEOPLE', I would ward dat azz so hard.

Who the hell is pushing this case? 1 of them is scum, count on it. I guess I have something to look for in my catchup.

So let me get this right, VV thinks that the case on BS is dumb, because it only involves last nigth's ward. And that's not a good case because it can be explained away by a pre existing case.

And yet he doesn't aknowledge the pre-existing case...

[Seacore]

Awesome link, Percy. Merry Christmas.

[Seacore]

Yep, it was 3 on BS, 1 on Nico and 1 dead = 5 stalkers

[Seacore]

Also.

I have yet to make an insanity infraction. I don't plan to either.
However, I'm sure some people have, the Benmage argument aside, there's been at least one, maybe more, people who didn't twitch at all when they should have.

I would like to know how the insanity infraction works.
Due to the fact that nobody has stepped forward already to explain it, I'm going to assume that speaking of it is forbidden, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

If nobody talks about it, I'm going to assume it is so. However, if somebody later reveals that talking about it isn't forbidden, with proof, all those who have not spoken of it prior to this will be viewed as scum, by me.

Is that clear? It's past midnight here and that felt a little rambly.

[Seacore]

To clarify what I was trying to say. Yes, I'd like to know what happens when you get an insanity infraction. What are the game effects.

I read "insanity infractions are private" as "you can't know who gets one", but not necessarily as "you can't know what they do" although the latter might hold true.

For example, we know AV got one. He failed to twitch as necessary today.
AV has responded directly to my post, so one of two things is true.
1) Players are specifically told not to discuss the effects of gaining an insanity infraction.
2) AV is scum and doesn't want to reveal what insanity infractions do.

[Seacore]

AV, the mod has been asked directly about insanity infractions before and chose to be vague. Fine, that's the mod's choice.

The mod has said what two infractions for the same offence and what three total do, but the mod has never said what a single one does.

Perhaps it robs you of a night action. I don't know. I'm not asking people to do anything that prompts a modkill. I'm just saying that if people don't come forward I'll assume it causes a modkill.

In fact, that's pretty much what I'm taking from you.