Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Furcolow]

well, wingless felt pretty pro-town in iso, but neither one of them has a lot of content

[Furcolow]

Seacore, when I ask you what I'll flip I don't have to put out a hypothetical situation
I would have multiple days of wagon analysis and more analysis
You're neglecting that people will be dying, those that heard noise
You know why? Because you are worried

Lets test one of my other reads. How about the one on Baby Spice where she is a scum-VI.

[Furcolow]

Furc,

How is this:

OK so you're saying I'm a good lynch when my fucking action can be proved to NOT have them killed?
MY action prevents both stalks AND fetishes being crafted of them
when they don't die tomorrow or the next day,

WHAT THEN SEACORE?

Where you are asking me what my reaction is to events that have not happened regardless of other noises, other wagon analysis and etc, compatible logically with this:

Seacore, when I ask you what I'll flip I don't have to put out a hypothetical situation
I would have multiple days of wagon analysis and more analysis
You're neglecting that people will be dying, those that heard noise
You know why? Because you are worried

Where you object to me asking you what you'll do in a hypothetical situation.

See what I mean, you're so stuck in tunnel land that you aren't being consistent in your logic. If you truly are town, stop and consider this.

Regardless, your flip to you was hypothetical. I know what my flip would be. That was my answer, in sentence one. Did that go over your head?

Answer the question, how can you be confirmed in comparison to me? I can be confirmed. How are you helping the town? Quit dodging the real issue.

Wait, I thought the Cult could kill each night regardless of stalking.

Fetishes give people extra insanities, and the Ritual kills 'em, right?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Why did you think there was no ritual Night 0 if there were no requirements for it? I'm suspicious that this may be an attempt to "not understand how cult works, so how could I be a cultist".

For once, I actually agree with SeaCore

[Furcolow]

Regardless, your flip to you was hypothetical. I know what my flip would be. That was my answer, in sentence one. Did that go over your head?

Answer the question, how can you be confirmed in comparison to me? I can be confirmed. How are you helping the town? Quit dodging the real issue.

I'm trying to understand what you're talking about.
I asked you to consider what would happen if you successfully lead my lynch and then discovered, upon my death, that I was town. That has nothing to do with your flip being hypothetical. In this scenario, I'm accepting you as town also, and saying that you were wrong and now you have to re-evaluate.

I asked you this after you asked me what I would do when El Goo stays alive for two nights thus potentially proving your action.

So where does you knowing you're town come into it.

Secondly my flip to me is not hypothetical, I know I'm an investigator and I've chosen to be town.

Nowhere have I said I can be confirmed, except obviously upon my death. My argument is that you are also not confirmed, and cannot be. If, for example, you stalked El Gooski, you could simply hold off on killing them. Alternatively, perhaps you are cult and have crafted a fetish of them, well that could be used later. El Gooski staying alive does not confirm you.

someone trying to stalk him last night would have confirmed me

[Furcolow]

unvote

i'm going to have to do a serious re-read tomorrow and try to be objective
mark it at 5, now, seacore

[Furcolow]

Oh, I don't need a summary, myself. My other heads think it necessary, but I'm more one to go with the flow.

-DGB

this is exactly how DGB played as town in SA2 fme

[Furcolow]

it's a WIFOMsnowball
ebwop: no, i'm just saying that's how he played in SA2 ... as town
quit trying to make it null AV or ill change my read on you
im trying to help
im not saying durrr dgb is cleared, i'm saying I am pretty confident el goosuki at least has a 74% chance of investigator, probably higher

[Furcolow]

Andrius - leaning town
AurorusVox - neutral to scum
Baby Spice - scum, possible VI-nvestigator
Benmage - if he's cult, he's an idiot. we'll see when fate dies/doesn't die
Bowser - might be scum. if they're town, they feel too lazy to help. how many posts do they even have on a hydra?
El Goosuki - fairly sure they're town. leaning town on them.
Fate - scum
Feysal - town imo
Furcolow - town
Furpants_Tom - town
hitorogoshi - town
kunkstar7 - leaning town, somewhat neutral
Lost Butterfly - scum
MagnaofIllusion - scum
manho - town
nopointinactingup - town based upon his last post, but SSBF raised my eyebrows sometimes
Plum - I figured she was town, but she is not taking control like i've seen her do as town
ReaperCharlie - I figured he was town, but he is taking control like i've seen him do as scum
rewq455 - town
Seacore - scum
SpyreX - town
totallynotmafia - town
Triglav - leaning town
Trilobite - town, wow, so town
VasudeVa - scum
VP Baltar - town
Wickedestjr - town
xvart - town, though i hate to admit it


the scumteam:
aurorusvox
babyspice
fate
LB
MoI
Seacore
VasudeVa - you all are like what, VasudeVa? Here is my case on him:
he votes LB before reading. why? distancing. He then goes on to vote Seacore and MoI, his other scumbuddies, for distancing.
They're all not trying to hop onto reapercharlie and make an actual wagon on a good townie

we cannot stand by, as investigators, and let this happen
you all claim i am confirmed, well let's lynch someone on my list
i don't give a fuck who
quickwagon someone NOW

[Furcolow]

i would feel MUCH happier with LB/MoI/Vas because they are good players
babyspice/seacore/AV don't worry me at all

[Furcolow]

actually, i am fairly suspicious of triglav as well

[Furcolow]

vote: lost butterfly

[Furcolow]

i think you accidentally made your text too small there
percy is not keen on that
he might modkill you

[Furcolow]

i believe he's more likely town than cult
and in fact, the 75% likelihood he started with is in the B range for me

[Furcolow]

hitogoroshi and trilobite are the two have have ascended the A range through very pro-town posting

[Furcolow]

you'll STOP scumhunting? when did you START?

[Furcolow]

i was about to shift my vote to seacore, but i am very happy with it having read your post
i feel like you talking of fate trying to fake seacore being scum with him is actually a very viable strategy. i would be more sure of it if seacore hadn't jumped on my bandwagon, but i do that as town, so it is potentially null... definitely not damning.

this makes me more certain of you/fate if anything
you/fate both called a lot of the same people town
you are still trying to do that, and just did that in your post. with pretty bad reasoning. "SSBF IZ TOWN U GUYZ"
it has nothing to do with the guy who replaced in highlighting things people have been saying all game
it would be really fucking easy for cult to just regurgitate points like he did to fake being pro-town
he is not confirmed in the slightest
im keeping my vote on you
i hope you die in this game

[Furcolow]

Hey Ellie, Reaper is perfectly able to fake his town meta.

Please vote Kthx

~Fate

I never played with him before...
And comments like that wristing thing just now look so town >.>

Auro
Baby
Bower
Kunk
Magna
Nopoint
Seacore
Wick
Xvart

^^^ Are any of these guys scum?

add lost butterfly, take off wickedest, and i'm null on nopoint/kunk, and i agree with you

(Also I do believe DGB just said there were 4 Cultist voting furcolow at one time. For the queen of VC analysis this is just more laughable than her usual laughable attempts at content)

I've been saying that all game. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 5, yet you haven't said shit about that to me.

[Furcolow]

ATTENTION

I have decided to graverob.

I just got a message from someone about mowing a lawn, and it reminded me of this. I have decided it is the most pro-town thing that I can do, counteracting the natural janitorial process of non-flipping.

I will not be stating the insanities I am taking.

[Furcolow]

ATTENTION

I have decided to graverob.

I just got a message from someone about mowing a lawn, and it reminded me of this. I have decided it is the most pro-town thing that I can do, counteracting the natural janitorial process of non-flipping.

I will not be stating the insanities I am taking.

I think you'll find that's completely unacceptable.

Whether people believe you are town, investigator or whatever, enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable.

On top of this, you want to not tell us what your insanity is? That is definitely unacceptable. You will openly declare which one it is, so we can track it.

No, I won't let the cultists track my insanities
sorry

[Furcolow]

So if I have a weakness, like having one piece of equipment, or like one-two votes less on the wagon (sadism), or even WIFOM it at a certain spot...

like for instance: I don't claim insanities, DON'T have sadism but the cult don't know that
with 8 left, for instance, 3 cult and say sadism is +2 to threshold (just a for instance, i think it's +2 but it might be +1... w/e it is)
say they all 3 quickvote me to see if they can get a free lynch, and i don't have sadism
that would win it for the town just from that
i know that is a very unlikely scenario, but not claiming insanities from a confirmed town is actually beneficial in theory

[Furcolow]

ok it's one less on sadism

[Furcolow]

with 7, then, in lylo they could win possibly... like if they knew i had sadism or didn't
not claiming leads to wifom for them, and i'll have to take some bad ones if i'm graverobbing

[Furcolow]

Furcolow, you're thinking of suicidal, first off. :p

Secondly, you're not getting lynched in this thread unless the entire town comes to the conclusion that you're going to go murderer. I don't believe that (what kind of murderer wards N0?) but transparency regarding your insanities will help appease the haters.

As for equipment weaknesses, I think a fair compromise is not having to claim the equipment. You claim solist, but stay mum on what you have. Or you claim taboo, but stay mum on what you taboo. Etc.

(By the way, if you plan to grave rob every night, my advice for insanity order goes something like this. Necrophilia first, then Twitchy, then (assuming you got some equipment) Taboo equipment you don't want, then Solist and keep something you do want. Throw in Compulsion and maybe Hallcination/Mutilation (I suspect that as the days advance we'll be lifting the ban on those insanities) and you've got a solid game plan cult can't take advantage of.)

I disagree with you on a lot of this

[Furcolow]

yeah, i meant suicidal

[Furcolow]

Bowser only has one vote, which is disappointing.

Baby Spice claiming ward that early (before xvart) gives her town points because I don't see her claiming ward if her fetish crafting failed (in such an instance as a Xvarttown flip would indite her).

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


LB HAS A WAGON.

LEZ GO

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

[Furcolow]

If it's not mentioned under side effect then it isn't a side effect is it?

I planned to ward so read the rules for warding. You (and others) didn't plan to ward so didn't and no doubt were more concerned with being targeted than I was so concentrated on the hearing noise rules.

In SAII, warding caused noise, and the ruleset as written at the start of the game confirmed that interpretation.

and I disagree with you saying confirmed there, because I believe it wasn't.

But do you accept that AV's post was much clearer?

wow, you are STILL missing the point on this?
if you are town, i can honestly say you even make ME look good

If you are so sure, why are you not defending him with proper arguments? Your word alone does little to influence my opinion of him... though I've not yet really formed my opinion, I will have to read ReaperCharlie's posts to see where this wagon is coming from.

Feysal, meet DGB. DGB, meet Feysal.

This I don't get. El Goosuki said he was 100% sure of ReaperCharlie being town, and I am not certain at all. I said I'd have to read his posts to form my own opinion. If this was some pot-meet-kettle comment, I don't follow.

I have decided to graverob.

I just got a message from someone about mowing a lawn, and it reminded me of this. I have decided it is the most pro-town thing that I can do, counteracting the natural janitorial process of non-flipping.

I will not be stating the insanities I am taking.

Frankly, I found this post disturbing. Back in #673 Furcolow refused to rob graves when he was offered the job, saying he had his own plan. Now we get a complete reversal, and no explanation why. His statement of not giving us his insanities looks even worse. He said he does not want the cult to track his insanities, and there are some the cult could take advantage of. So what, he does not need to take those. hitogoroshi made a sensible post about that, and Furcolow said he disagreed, with no reasoning at all.

Do we really want Furcolow on grave robbing duty? Someone once said that he would probably commit an insanity infraction sooner or later, and after seeing how he plays, I'm inclined to agree on that. It would only be a matter of time before Furcolow screwed up.

On the subject of Sadism.

Feysal

is their any reason you haven't placed a vote yet?

No reason related to game rules. Vote hopping is just not my style. I prefer to vote when I have a more solid case to act on, or if my vote is needed to secure a lynch at deadline. That said, the case on ReaperCharlie put together by Seacore and MoI looks compelling, but I'd still like to read his posts in ISO before placing my vote.

poison the well more feysal
why do you have to hate when i actually try to help the town?
i agree with vasudeva on insanities. i don't mind claiming how many i have, but i don't want the cult to know which ones i have.

If you are so sure, why are you not defending him with proper arguments? Your word alone does little to influence my opinion of him... though I've not yet really formed my opinion, I will have to read ReaperCharlie's posts to see where this wagon is coming from.

Feysal, meet DGB. DGB, meet Feysal.

This I don't get. El Goosuki said he was 100% sure of ReaperCharlie being town, and I am not certain at all. I said I'd have to read his posts to form my own opinion. If this was some pot-meet-kettle comment, I don't follow.

It was a joke. DGB rarely posts supporting evidence for reads. I was introducing the two of you.

Do we really want Furcolow on grave robbing duty? Someone once said that he would probably commit an insanity infraction sooner or later, and after seeing how he plays, I'm inclined to agree on that. It would only be a matter of time before Furcolow screwed up.

No, we want

his

grave to be

robbed

.

xvart.

why the hell do you NEED my grave robbed? if you're not an idiot, or cult, you should be willing to admit that i'm an investigator.

i realized i can continue through with my plan and still rob graves, basically, but if i need someone to help out i will ask.

No, we want

his

grave to be

robbed

.

????

---

My initial reaction was "Why wouldn't he claim insanities?" but, thinking about it, what does the town get from knowing what insanities Furc took?

Feysal - so who would you suggest robbed graves instead of Furc? I know who I want to rob graves but I'll hear your idea first.

I don't care who you want to rob graves
I'm doing it
end of story
get over it if you don't like it, or perhaps i could give you a tissue?

My initial reaction was "Why wouldn't he claim insanities?" but, thinking about it, what does the town get from knowing what insanities Furc took?

I think Furcolow is a player we would need to keep an eye on, even when we trusted him to be town. Given how easily he confused Suicidal and Sadism above, he could easily get himself modkilled over an insanity infraction. I would prefer him to at least listen to advice on what insanities to take and when, to avoid screwing himself over.

Feysal - so who would you suggest robbed graves instead of Furc? I know who I want to rob graves but I'll hear your idea first.

Bad: Scummy player selected to rob grave, scum get corpse dust and equipment if we're

right

for the cheap cost of one insanity.
Good: Two townies players rob grave, no one gets anything as long as we're right on one of the two, two insanities.
Great: Townie we're sure of robs grave. Cultists not only get nothing, they have to take an insanity on the chin or else we get equipment, one insanity.

I've been thinking about Baby Spice and xvart. My reason is that they both claimed to have warded MoI, and I consider the odds of them both lying to be minimal. Ward would be dangerous to false claim unless you knew your claimed target was warded by someone else. If we have them both grave rob, that would satisfy what hitogoroshi called 'Good'. If one were lynched and flipped cult, I'd trust the survivor to rob graves alone, which would be 'Great'. I've had suspicions of them both, but lately xvart has looked much better compared to Baby Spice.

No.
I have a brain.
I can pick my insanities for my brain.
You can get over it along with AV. Tissue?

Hmm. I was just going to suggest that we let Hito do it >_>"

Your plan could work, but contrary to you, I'm wondering if cult sharing targets is actually a viable strategy. It gives 2 players a claimable night action for the price of 1 player that they then can't kill.

---

Looking back at the noise/ward list, there's 5 players who claim to have made noise-making actions to four different players. There are 13 players who claim to have heard noise. 13 players, less 4 noise making targeted players, leaves

nine

unaccounted-for noises. I figure this could be explained by:
(a) some cult not fake-claiming ward on their craft fetish target
(b) some cult claiming to have heard noise when they didn't
(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose

What do people think the likeliest reasons are? I say reasons, because it has to be a combination of at least 2 of the above...and I think it could be a combination of all three =_="

First off, Hito isn't confirmed as town or anything at all. SURE, he is PRO-town, but he might be cult. I doubt that he is, but he really might be. I will do it. Considering his subversive plea to graverob, which RC and I picked up on, where he was baiting someone like me or you to be like "why don't YOU do it hito?", and you will realize that he might have a hidden agenda in relation to this (corpse dust?). I know I told feysal to not poison the well, and I'm sort of doing it here, but hito really isn't confirmed. that being said, i read him as town.

Well, I wouldn't mind delaying a day on checking for peoples insanities as a result of cult being able to take the one that delays a day and gives 2 insanities for 1. they might be not taking that, but if they had multiple people crafting 3 fetishes then that would be a good one to take if they thought they could get 'confirmed' by not having any insanities. "check me, i'm clean" then after the next night they have 2-3 when they were just 'cleared'.

I still think Lost Butterfly is town. Not so sure about Seacore.

I

do

think that rewq455 and kunkstar7 in particular could be scum.

I hate this post so fucking much
like i had a townread on this guy
and now i'm totes not sure

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: xvart

[Furcolow]

um. actually, i read the rule afterwards, and was like.. why didn't i hear noise? was my ward offset by anothers ward? was it a weird result of percy changing my target? (i didn't know el goosuki was dgb/ellibereth)

[Furcolow]

combine that with seacore/moi/xvart all being on my wagon
sneaky sneaky!

[Furcolow]

is it just me, or are there 3-4 people on your wagon who were on mine?

[Furcolow]

ok. i'm going to make some basic points.
1) I believe RC is town
a. he has a res kit, so is therefore valuable.
-Res kits can be confirmed
-we can force him to res who we want.
-if it gets to WIFOM, *then* we lynch him
b.

HE DIDN'T HEAR NOISE, AND WAS WARDED

2) I am confirmed in the eyes of the smarter people.
-i warded, there was confusion, i will be pro-town, but i need RC as my wingman
3) People who tried to wagon a confirmed town, are trying to wagon RC
a. xvart
i took him to be pro-town, but like RC has said his ward claim came REALLY late. He's either cultist/going murderer. Lynch this guy.
b. MoI
Where has he been? As town he is very, very active in attacking/defending people. This game he has tried to imitate that, but he has been WAY LESS ACTIVE. likely cult here, too.
c. Seacore
this guy had a wagon on him. what happened to that? scum diffusion?
he might be town, but if he is, his heart is in the wrong place. That leads me to my next point:
4) There are guaranteed to be townies on his wagon... investigators, whatever
a. you all need to unvote
b. you all should be voting with me, as i am town
c. reapercharlie is not in danger of dying. we need to lynch either someone who is actually scum, or someone whose actions don't add up

[Furcolow]

i'm reading really really slow.
just got past page 5.
is there anything urgent that need to be read?

finished page 10 now, but i need sleep. will continue the read tomorrow.

i'm still catching up slowly. just got past page 15...

too many homework these days.

but i will catch up soon.

we could just lynch this guy. at this rate, he isn't ever going to catch up.

[Furcolow]

i am also willing to bet money triglav is scum

[Furcolow]

i had a town read on AV
that is slipping away

[Furcolow]

"Hey guys I think AV is actually a taco"

"uhh no, tacos are incapable of communicating via written english"

"YOUR DEFENSE OF AV IS NOTED"

(it looks just as petty when you do it, don't threaten people for doing your homework)

Anyway I'll go ahead and

unvote

now, but won't revote until I can give this game a bit of time to figure out which wagon I like the most.

No one but Furcolow graverobs tonight.

Also I don't see why people want to keep their insanities secret. Making people pin themselves down on insanity number and identity means we can catch a murderer/cultist with a single out-of-place insanity. If we just do number, they'll obviously claim whatever insanity we find evidence of as the one they took, even if they're hiding more we didn't find. What are you honestly worried about the cult knowing in terms of your insanities?

i can think of 3 that are just fucking S's
solist
sadism
suicidal

[Furcolow]

if i'm robbing 2 graves a night, how the fuck could i go murderer?

[Furcolow]

the only reason i would be up for an RC lynch is because he claimed he is going to ward me while he has a rez kit
if he was town, i would assume he would make a list of a few people who heard noise and say he was going to resuscitate one

[Furcolow]

well, i didn't believe anyone else should be able to hide theirs
and i feel like off limit ones should not be off limit for me
i can create WIFOM for the cult this way

i have to go to work
keep them in line for me fatey

[Furcolow]

can we lynch MoI or Triglav?
dislike their attack over "policy" considering I have been very actively pro-town

[Furcolow]

Bowser have requested replacement.

Oh hell you're fucking kidding me. This slot gets lynched D2 regardless I Swear.

I would be happy to do it now.
RC could be town, and he has a rez kit. We can direct his actions. He didn't hear noise.
His claim is easy
He could be scum
I see a lot of town split up, so I feel hito is correct in his original feeling of a scum driven wagon here

You all can be blind as a town, and lynch someone who is providing backing to the town. I doubt scum-RC would get lynched in a game this large. He is not a bad player as scum whatsoever. If someone has a scum-tell on him, I'd like to hear it, because I haven't really seen anything against him that is damning and I feel this is a pointless fucking wagon.

Lynching Bowser, considering the contribution, the lack thereof really, or because of them not having their vote anywhere and being the first alphabetically to have not done so .... hell, even because they're replacing out anyways.

This isn't a bad lynch.
Sucks I'm going to be on a wagon with LB, but perhaps they're town and I was wrong before.

unvote
vote: bowser

lets get behind this town

[Furcolow]

"So you chose to leave a wagon of 4 votes (xvart) and not join a wagon on Seacore (4 votes), both of which you have called scum IIRC and are attempting to build a wagon on a lurker being replaced who had 1 vote before your vote change?"

have you looked at bowser's posts?

[Furcolow]

You said we shouldn't be claiming insanities because it would help the cult more than the town. Can you elaborate more on that, especially since you made a reference to SA II.

In the previous game, everyone was claiming what their insanities were because Insanity Infractions were private and edited into posts. It helped out discerning liars and honest people.

However, by the end of it, Town had some Sadists, some Aversions, some Paranoid and some other insanities that it made Day play harder in the end game. The clusterfuck of insanities made it easy for cult to pick out who to kill because their mere presence in the end game was good for them. (IIRC: semioldguy kept around one guy(kunkstar?) who had an aversion on him, thereby making him unlynchable by 4p LyLo. They couldn't no lynch, btw because Furcolow claimed a stalk on SOG)

In this game, it would be better if we don't let cult kill those who they can't manipulate. Although, I suppose later in the game, we should claim them. But right now isn't the time to do so.

A question for Vasudeva, though - at what point did you become certain that hitogoroshi is town; and why?

At around the time he was convincingly refereeing Benmage and Fate. I thought it was Townish and it made a lot more sense from a Townie perspective. Scum would have loved to watch them rip each other apart.

RC is total town.

This is a scum-driven wagon.

Gureeiito Gooopuboru, Erribuurretto to Katsuki, dare ka sokamu de Riipporru-Chaaaree wagonu?

(Did I get that right? >w<)
PS: That means 'Great Goofball, Ellibereth and Katsuki, Who are the scum in the RC wagon?' in bad japanese romanji. 8D.

---

Meh. I'm...not feeling the RC wagon so much anymore. I don't feel so good about it, nor am I feeling that 'D1 scum lynch feeling'. Plus, I dislike me wagonmates. (MoI, AV, SpyreX <--there be scumz here.). And I'm not so sure they are bussing since RC is resisting.

Vote: MoI

All he's doing is bullying himself out of questioning. The problem is, his defense is ridiculously agressive and MoI loovees to lead towns. And since he was warded and all, we need to make sure MoI never makes it past N1 everrr again. Muhahahahaha.

this is wrong
animorpher and i could have lynched him, if kunk didnt vote with SoG
furthermore, no lynching would have won us the game as well, as my stalk was on the last remaining cult.

can we keep it in english? I know you're being cute.

I've believed MoI to be scum, and even if he's town, I don't like him
He is claiming things about me which are blatant lies to attack my character, such as him contacting me to change my avatar. This is the first I've heard of it since 1000, and I'm willing to take suggestions. I will not change it to something I do not like.

MoI as town posts way more often and actively defends himself. An example of this is the game I just referenced, mini theme 1000. As scum, he imitates that, but he actually posts WAY less.

TOWN:
Brave and Beautiful: 96/1600 as town, with him even dying a few days before the end = ~6% of the posts
SCUM:
Harry Potter Mafia: 32/1700 as scum = 2% of the posts
Stars Aligned Tres: 29/1410 2% of the posts. Die scum.

As you can see, MoI is posting huge walls of text. He does that as both scum and town, so that is null. HOWEVER, he is posting A THIRD LESS than he does as town, which he does as scum. I have now provided statistical evidence for him being scum.

unvote;
vote: moi

happy i'm not voting someone bowser now?

[Furcolow]

ebwop voting bowsers / voting someone named bowser (take your pick!)

[Furcolow]

im so glad the statistics lined up with my heart

[Furcolow]

@Wraith:
you are calling fate "your top town read", yet you bolded WHY I AM TOWN?
Am I not your top town read?

also, you say I should die in lylo, but I'd like to point out a game where I won for the town in lylo:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14722

Good lord Furc I love you man.

This is the wrong tree again though. Get back to good trees.

what do you mean?

[Furcolow]

i also wouldnt care to lynch triglav because i dislike reading his posts, he is all intellect with no soul

[Furcolow]

Since Bowser has replaced out, there's no point leaving my vote on him. Read manho's ISO. Go on. Read it.

VOTE: manho

I'm not optimistic that this will succeed, but last minute lurker wagon, go go go!

You can be better than this. Did you read wingless, who manho replaced. Forensic tools. The replace out read town to me.

This slot will not be lynched today.

Shh, you're not supposed to TELL him that! I'm TRYING to accomplish something, here.

I did read Wingless, and saw his replace out as null (scum and town can be overwhelmed by the content--in my experience, more so the former). Good point that his spontaneous Forensic Tools claim is a slight towntell from a weaker/n00bish player (although it might have been faked). Hmm....

But why do you think Fate claiming Occult Books is scummier than Wingless claiming Forensic Tools.

I'll answer this.
Cult can pass fetishes to give insanities. Someone claiming occult books and saying "look, his insanity count is higher than it should be!!" when they have passed them fetish(es) to make it so is a valid scum tactic.

Blood, on the other hand, will damn occult and murderers. It's not any more or less, and is null, but occult books would be the

more common

scum claim.

[Furcolow]

xvart, um...you realize that

we

wouldn't be discussing reads in a Cult QT anyway, right? Because

we'd already know that ReaperCharlie is town

?

But even leaving that aside, look at all these statements:

RC is totally 100% pure town.

ReaperCharlie is town. I insist.

[quote="El Goosuki (albeit the Elli head)]
I never played with him before...
And comments like that wristing thing just now look so town >.>

RC is total town.

This is a scum-driven wagon.

Unless you're trying to argue that we're communicating outside the thread because she didn't use the word "frustration" when calling frustrated comments by RC townish, please read the thread before trying to score an easy point.[/quote]
bolded statement makes you look like scum to me

[Furcolow]

What about my point that people will suspect you of going murderer if you kill Fate tonight? That completely negates your confirmation plan. So it's better to wait at least one night before killing, as a show of good faith.

Negative, that is added insanities. And a whole Slew of wifom about why I didnt kill Fate, because just since you don't want it doesn't negate that there are others saying I have to go through with it.

And I didn't read the case on Magna by Furc. I only noticed a glarring misstatement by Magna. Which does make me very suspicious of Magna. Because that is a huge tell imo. Scum

most of the fuckingtime

Post less. Period.

he REALLY is posting less
the "counters" he provided were from games where he was in a smaller % of the player pool
the scumgame he was at Harry Potter was I believe 16 people, an dhe haqd 2%
the scum game he had like 8% was with like 12 people or less, where he survived to the end, and the post count was WAY lower, so he had to post more often. This game has a huge post count, and is fast paced. HPM was fast paced. His scum game is very very similar to this.

Go read Harry Potter Mafia on his iso
it adds up to me
lets seriously shift this to MoI


@Benmage, lost butterfly badgering you to not confirm your kill is cultist propaganda in my eyes

[Furcolow]

in response to #1509:
xvart, book it
i don't care
stalk elli tonight and see if it works out for you buddy

[Furcolow]

he REALLY is posting less

You do realise Furc that yourself, Fate, and Benmage have made about a third of the posts in the game right?
You do understand that spamming like that makes all of the other players post counts seem low right?
Are you willing to redo your little arguement if you remove those top three posters and recalculate?

no. i was in harry potter mafia, so that variable remains for both scum games.
removing it from this one would mean removing it from that one as well

[Furcolow]

If BM is cult then we'll lynch him tomorrow after he fails to make an attempted murder on you. We're not lynching him today.

cult would res fate if fatecult
bentown would then get lynched and mislynched
fatecult would then get lynched d3
we could resolve this now, it is actually valid
if bentown today then lynch fatecult tomorrow on d2, a day earlier than we would

[Furcolow]

If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHnjx_Ic ... ed#t=3m15s

[Furcolow]

...actually. Forget what I said about Benmage robbing the grave. I now feel that Furcolow should do it. He is practically confirmed town and he has offered to do it. I see no reason for him not to rob graves.

i like this post
and this one

Vote: Seacore

Between him, ReaperCharlie, and xvart, I want to lynch Seacore the most. After thinking about the case some more and reading his defenses, ReaperCharlie is a very bad lynch. Seacore should die instead.

my town read on you had been faltering
it has now been strengthened and bolstered

[Furcolow]

...actually. Forget what I said about Benmage robbing the grave. I now feel that Furcolow should do it. He is practically confirmed town and he has offered to do it. I see no reason for him not to rob graves.

Furc is more confirmed than me?

I am.
You want to do something helpful?
Agree to stalk El Goosuki tonight, and it will fucking fail

[Furcolow]

Am I rob graving who we lynch tonight?

I am.

[Furcolow]

1a. I see the occult books as a poor choice for a N0 action, but an easy scum fakeclaim. I think his whole attempt to try and please me by testing my insanity and allowing him to survive was a scum ploy told to him by his partners. Thats why I don't believe he has the occult books and believe he is scum.

I actually somewhat agree with this, as you could see in my iso

[Furcolow]

You have my campaign promise VV.

At the request of two sane townies, I will now be leaving this thread for hours to mindlessly kill Zerg and nuke the hell out of some pylons.

Carry on well my brethren.

want to 2v2?
i play protoss

[Furcolow]

I skimmed the last half of this page, so if there is anything imperative there, give me a heads up.
I went to rob RC's grave while warding El Goosuki. I sent in that action. Vi said I cannot rob the soulless, so I decided to search for a res kit instead (I wanted RC's in the first place). El goosuki saying they heard noise when I stated I was going to be warding them in the thread gives me 1 of 2 scenarios imo:

1) cult sent fetishes to nearly the entire town (this would explain their lack of a kill)
2) el goosuki is lying cult who expected to be warded

I heard noise

[Furcolow]

OK, well if we have Furc rob RC alone, that will essentially lessen the cost of robbing.

I'd be for dispatching both probably then. We then have three bodies to deal with and we have three chosen ones cross rob to clean up those bodies and prevent cult madness.

So for example:

RC = Furc
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Baby Spice, Wraith
Lynchee = Wraith, VP

or whatevs. We can't have unflipped bodies toward endgame, even if it is 99% likely Fate is town. WIFOM would make knowing when lylo is going to occur very difficult.

let me rob someone else alone
i dont need the rez kit
lets vote on who can rob RC that is probably town
also, there is no fucking way I want baby spice or wraith to be robbing

[Furcolow]

oh, right, i saw that
he was confirming my n1 action... or n0, whatever

[Furcolow]

nothing is certain

[Furcolow]

who is compiling a claims list?

[Furcolow]

i believe i made that pretty clear

[Furcolow]

dispatch: rc
dispatch: fate

[Furcolow]

OK, well if we have Furc rob RC alone, that will essentially lessen the cost of robbing.

I'd be for dispatching both probably then. We then have three bodies to deal with and we have three chosen ones cross rob to clean up those bodies and prevent cult madness.

So for example:

RC = Furc
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Baby Spice, Wraith
Lynchee = Wraith, VP

or whatevs. We can't have unflipped bodies toward endgame, even if it is 99% likely Fate is town. WIFOM would make knowing when lylo is going to occur very difficult.

let me rob someone else alone
i dont need the rez kit
lets vote on who can rob RC that is probably town
also, there is no fucking way I want baby spice or wraith to be robbing

xvart, when i said "i don't need the res kit" here, why do you think I don't need it anymore?
Also, in my original claim post, I stated "I wanted RC's res kit, but Vi didn't let me rob/ward, so ..."

[Furcolow]

Out of the list, who do you want to rob Furc?

Also, I personally want Benmage on the robbing list...that was more of an example than anything else. Though Baby Spice completely ignoring it makes me definitely think she should stay on it. I can see Baby Spice cult trying to get out of robbing by saying nothing and hoping the list changes.

fate.
his alignment is totally up in the air to me, i'm sorry so many people are like "OMG HE'S TOWN". I don't buy it. People didn't believe me about LB, they didn't believe me about fate, and they didn't believe me about SeaCore/BabySpice.

Are all these people scum? Surely not. I don't have a list of who all is scum.

I want to only rob one grave, so I can use my rez kit. I am only going to rob one grave, so I can use my rez kit. I would like for everyone to dispatch fate for me. If people won't agree to this, I will rob the grave of the person we lynch. ezpz.

[Furcolow]

Also, @Furc: Why don't you want me robbing?

And Benmage, claim your target if you haven't already.

1) you might be cult, and i don't want you paired with babycultspice if so.. easy corpse dust
2) if you are an investigator, as I believe and hope, I don't want you to gain insanities
3) I believe you are a good town player sometimes who could be beneficial in other ways


I'm kind of scared benmage stalked me
Also, who do you all believe murdered LB?

[Furcolow]

vote: benmage

claim your target or die

[Furcolow]

you make me believe you stalked me with that line

[Furcolow]

i'm ok with it.

[Furcolow]

i already have a rez kit
can you have two rez kits?

benmage
we don't need to flip LB, he is cult, what the fuck?

[Furcolow]

EVERYONE HEARD NOISE. HOW MANY FETISHES IS THAT? DURRR.

[Furcolow]

nothing is certain

we don't need to flip LB, he is cult, what the fuck?

@Furcolow not everyone heard noise. lern2read.

i know not everyone did, but a lot of people did

[Furcolow]

benmage, would you give us a list of your potential victims?
i might be ok with unvoting if your list is $

[Furcolow]

so who killed LB...

[Furcolow]

night 0 noise:
Andrius
hito
kunk

LB

rewq (Wraith, right?) - passed fetish n1
Seacore - passed fetish n1
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr - rezzed
xvart

N1:
AurorusVox (1714, 1746)
Hito (1719)
Trilobite (1722)
kunk (1729)
xvart (1735)
wickedestjr (1745)
Wraith (1747) [passed a fetish - twitchy]
MoI (1757)
El Goosuki (1760, 1763) [warded by xvart]
Spyrex (1774)
Feysal (1775)
Furcolow (1798)
Baby Spice (1811)
Seacore (1814)
Furpants_Tom (1818)
Triglav (1837)
Totallynotmafia (1861)

undispatch: RC

[Furcolow]

17 people
you learn to read, kunkstar

[Furcolow]

how could kunk, hito, or xvart hear noise on consecutive nights but not be dead or have no insanities?

[Furcolow]

oh, yeah, xvart was checked for blood by el goosuki
that's true
people need to claim their targets on those, then, to dismiss that noise

[Furcolow]

i was about to argue that, but i guess you're right
lack of blood =/= lack of murderer or cult
lack of insanity n0/n1 =/= lack of insanity

[Furcolow]

i am even against people claiming successful rezzes
read stars aligned 2
a fake rez claim really botched it for the town

[Furcolow]

N1:
AurorusVox (1714, 1746)
Hito (1719)
Trilobite (1722)
kunk (1729) - targetted by furpants_tom supposedly
xvart (1735) - targetted by el goosuki, not bloody
wickedestjr (1745)
Wraith (1747) [passed a fetish - twitchy]
MoI (1757)
El Goosuki (1760, 1763) [warded by xvart]
Spyrex (1774)
Feysal (1775)
Furcolow (1798)
Baby Spice (1811)
Seacore (1814)
Furpants_Tom (1818)
Triglav (1837)
Totallynotmafia (1861)
Plum (1872)

[Furcolow]

I've decided I'm not graverobbing
I have no insanities, I'd like to keep it that way
I will probably be ritualed anyways

If someone wants to commune me, or admit they communed me, by all means...

I hope you're using it on me, wraith

[Furcolow]

the cthulhu song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzKpWww3Npc
please listen!!

[Furcolow]

xvart, when i said "i don't need the res kit" here, why do you think I don't need it anymore?
Also, in my original claim post, I stated "I wanted RC's res kit, but Vi didn't let me rob/ward, so ..."

I assumed you Searched instead of Warding (and I didn't even make the connection about the rez kit), but the way it was written is that you decided to Search when denied the rob grave action. I just wanted it clearly stated.

I've decided I'm not graverobbing
I have no insanities, I'd like to keep it that way
I will probably be ritualed anyways

If someone wants to commune me, or admit they communed me, by all means...

I hope you're using it on me, wraith

If you think you are going to get killed by the Cult, then wouldn't it be good for you to be the grave robber? We get some insanities on someone who isn't going to be around?

@xvart

– You chose to ward El Goo over any number of more Pro-Town players (Hito for one) just to test a theory that we put to be 30 or so pages ago thanks to Furc's mod clearance?

Yes. It's something I would not be able to get over if I had not done it; and now that I have, I can move on. Additionally, my original plan was to change my action once I received some sort of confirmation back. If I didn't receive any confirmation back, then I knew Furculow's story was bogus and could run with that. However, after I got confirmation back I thought about it and felt like what I was doing could be considered gaming the system, and decided that I needed to follow through with it.

@ xvart, Seacore claimed an Twitchy Insanity from getting passed a fetish in #1814.

Thanks. I'll put it in once I get manho's claims.

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

I'm considering asking for a group of possibilities for his stalk target. I think it could actually be helpful because if he names some actual Cult in the group then the Cult will have to waste some Rez Kits if they think that might actually be the target. Then, we'll also have the information tomorrow about who Rezzed who on Benmage's target and we can move on from there. Right now I don't think it is a good idea to ask for a specific target for the same reason you don't ask a vig for a specific kill target in any other game. Even if he is going Murderer he can't really get away with killing someone unless they are scummy so even if he is planning on going Murderer his target should align (hopefully) to the town's objective.

xvart.

I figured you assumed, that's why I didn't feel you needed to ask
Thank you for addressing me at the top of your post. Much easier to get to the points you want me to cover.

I am against VP Baltar's plan, now that you have mentioned it. I feel like we need to trap people and lock their night actions. If we have two people robbing two graves together, who is to say one of them can't skimp on their duty? I don't even care if they get corpse dust. It only counters rez kits, honestly, and locks up one of their actions. We could simply ward the graves/keep them soulless. We really need to discuss this more. I wouldn't mind keeping a shortened graveyard until we can get some confirmation/answers.

I'd rather see it like this, though:
RC: Benmage
Fate: Benmage
Today's lynch: someone we vote on
LB: someone we vote on

I know the other way we can prevent people from gaining corpse dust, but it'd be worth it for me just to have benmage get a rez kit in case he actually wants to do something useful. I don't see how we can keep benmage until the endgame, either, with his early claims. I know how it is to stalk twice, and not kill anyone, though, Ben, it's hard. I'm asking you to do that for the town this game.

xvart, the cultists would still have to waste some actions, which is a victory of sorts (albeit a minor one)

I think Benmage should offer 4 names. His target + 3 others.

I suggested this, but I'd rather it be a few more than 4. I don't really care if it's 5 or 7 though. 4 would be fine. I'd just like to be able to rule myself out. Knowing his sadistic ass, he would list me even if he didn't stalk me

I still haven't had a chance to read the second half of D1. But I am up to speed on D2 happenings, so I'm going to

Vote: Furpants_Tom

. His insistence on voting nearly-confirmed town Ben is completely suspect. There is no reason to lynch Benmage right now, as it is impossible for him to be a murderer, and Tom admits that he doesn't think he is scum. Keeping would-be murderers alive late into the game in SAII worked very well for town, allowing them to have regular grave robbers who were unlikely to be scum and soaked up insanities that would otherwise go to townies. Benmage would be a perfect graverobber in this sense.

-----

Dispatch: ReaperCharlie

I really don't see the point in dispatching Fate at the moment, as it just gives us more bodies to rob for the sake of robbing them. I would much prefer to save his body for tomorrow.

I could go forever not being reminded of that endgame for town. You say it like we won. There is no way we will be able to keep benmage alive. I am town, and I would be completely fine going ahead and lynching him. Set an example.

[Furcolow]

the reasons why it's better to have a single robber

----------------

the reasons why it's not

people can be held accountable-----------------------------------possible corpse dust
possible equipment--------------------------------------2 people lose the ability to have other night actions
people can't skimp on duties
cult might lose actions to save their lives
insanities in one place or two as opposed to 4
can get use out of scummy players

I find it better to have two people rob two graves. If they don't, we lynch them. Make BenMage do one, since he already has 2 insanities, and this way we can make sure he acts pro-town and doesn't misvig someone like a moron.

[Furcolow]

Guys, something just occured to me that needs to be pointed out immediately because it impacts the town's plans to rob graves. (Based on Manho's post above though it may already be too late to prevent RC from being dispatched.)

The cult can ward too. Ward BLOCKS grave robbing actions.

We're essentially drawing a map to scum for who to block to ensure that they can rob the graves alone.

um... i already posted this.
do you read, or are you trying to steal the information i posted in an appearance to appear protown?

[Furcolow]

Argh, I keep thinking of it like a roleblock, rather than an indirect roleblock.

Nevermind the above rambling then...

it's not rambling
i wouldnt mind us using 2-3 town players to ward a grave
and if someone skimps and the grave is robbed we obviously lynch them

[Furcolow]

and i mean like 3 graves, 3 players warding
we should force people we consider cult to ward graves
if they dont, they die
if more than one dont, then we break out stalks.

[Furcolow]

more than one doesn't*
wow, my grammar is going downhill.

[Furcolow]

if we make cult ward graves, though, we can take away like half of their night actions
while they may not ward the grave 100% if we pick cult to ward it, they will not rob it
the better strategy is to keep the graveyard empty

undispatch: fate

I am completely for warding graves, and winning through investigation, communing, and rezzing
This will keep insanity counts down. Who is to say cult won't just ward RC's grave if he is cult?

Lets take control of this, instead of putting a plan out they can foil. If we use like 8 people to rob 4 graves there is a large portion of the towns actions wasted through them having to ward graves. Cult themselves could even rob grave A and ward grave B to get their cultist buddy out of having to rob it whatsoever. "Oh, it was warded, I couldn't rob it", then a player who is town, and robbing the grave with them, could be like yeah, it was warded, which would give a cultist town cred.

The best way about this, in terms of limiting insanities and maximizing town actions, would be to hold off and ward on them imo

[Furcolow]

@Furc's idea to not grave rob

That's stupid.
We need the flips. We need the flips desperately. That is the biggest tool in the scum hunting tool box.

More el goosuki votes please.

@Wraith, why is there a relationship between tnm and el goo? Forgive me, as I've been skimming

why is it stupid
why do we need multiple flips? we know LB is cult
are you claiming cult WONT ward the graves?

[Furcolow]

how else would he have 1 insanity
them warding a single grave can greatly muddy the waters. I disagree that it would be great for town.
I'm fairly sure Fate/LB were both cult
I'm sorry you disagree with me
Fairly sure RC was town

[Furcolow]

And this is precisely why we need the flips because we all disagree with each other, we need mod confirmed flips.

LB could have stalked either N0 or N1, LB could have been passed a fetish by the scum, LB could have used occult books (although granted, not a great move)

I'm the opposite of you, I think we'll get town flips from Fate and LB, and a scum flip from RC.

If we rob all 4 graves tonight, scum would have to burn 4 of the 7 actions to block them all. Otherwise we at least get some flips and we need them, or do you propose to just assume we lynch the right people?

lynch? if people skimp
stalk and kill to confirm town? NP
single-vigges-for-the-win

[Furcolow]

If you believe Benmage to be town (regardless of Murderer in Training ambitions or lack thereof) it is in the best interest of the town to allow his kill to go through. A Murderer in Training (especially an outted one) would have the same objective now as a town vig.

xvart.

Call me a Stalinist control freak if you will, but don't you want some kind of a say in BenMage's vig? Is everyone really happy to let Captain Whacky vote someone off the island given that he's only just putting together a scum list right now? Does anyone genuinely believe this kill is more likely to hit scum than town?

no.
secondly, I believe he might be cult. I wouldn't be surprised if he claimed a kill the cult did. They could ward the grave, or even rez the person he claimed to kill. This really opens up way too many options. That is why my vote is on BenMage until he either claims his target, or gives a list with his target in it. Even a list of 10 people would potentially be too many for the cult to waste their actions on, and I'd hope he could name 2-3 cult out of 10.

I don't like the WIFOM surrounding this. If he really wanted to be pro-town, he would claim who he was going to fucking kill, or tell us AFTER that he stalked.

if he had stalked, and said "I got a rez kit", then killed someone the next day, and said "I killed Baby Spice, but I'm not going to kill again, sorry about lying in the first place but I didn't want them rezzed..."

Even then, though, when the cult hear noise they know to rez that person.

[Furcolow]

I am here. I have some serious catching up to do, so expect a lengthy post with a lot of FoS.

[Furcolow]

vote: moi

policy lynch
too tough to read him

[Furcolow]

MoI, do you feel this is a fair characterization? I mean, it doesn't take much to understand Furc's play, so I'd like to know if you feel like you do understand what his style is?

I address this later on with VV but I’ll say it here.

This is an absolutely correct assessment of my perception. Furc is a VI and I don’t think I obscured my view on Day 1.

When he’s Town he’s not going to be a net benefit in scum-hunting. When he’s scum he’s going to slide by on his VI playstyle which people will defend. In either case he’s an anchor chained solidly to Town’s chances at victory. The longer he lasts in a game this size the more he drags it down to Hell.

Look at his ISO for Days 1 and 2 and honestly ask yourself if you disagreed. A short list of reasons why my opinion hasn’t changed –

1. Didn’t bother to actually think about his N0 action.
2. Constantly changing opinion – Fate is Town, Fate is Cult, Fate is Town.
3. Lack of reliable scum-hunting. His opinions on who is Cult generally revolve around whoever challenges his play or opinions.

I could go on to demonstrate numerous radical changes of opinion on all sorts of matters. And he’s pretty much called half the playerlist scum at one point or another.

Were this a 12 person game I wouldn’t have bothered going after him early. There is little room for error in that environment. In large games Town has significantly more wiggle room. Especially since we know there is only one Cult faction and N1 has given strong evidence that the Murderer route has been discounted as opposed to SAII (1 murder N1 as opposed to 4).

1) The ungodly tunnel on Furc like it was his day job.

I think I’ve clearly indicated above my opinion on Furc. If you want to call what is in effect a Policy push on an absolutely useless player (IMO) scummy that’s your call. Given the end of Clash of Kings I know that you know exactly why I don’t want VI players around at endgame. The fact that you are specifically going out of your way to ignore your direct knowledge gives me pause.

3) RC wagon rolls up at the end of the day and MoI is an eager beaver to jump on that. We get a fancy pants iso of RC in 1171. I don't know, but I always find these post by post isos to be kind of scummy because people seem to rarely ever give the person a fair shake when doing them. I mean, seriously go back and read MoI's PBPA of RC. Essentially 90 percent of RCs posts are called scummy or fluff. I find this quite over the top by any measure. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and RC will flip scum, but I just find this kind of rhetoric excessive and unlikely to come from town. That of course, is sort of ironic, since Magna seems fond of attacking RC, Vas and others for their rhetorical statements. Now before Magna comes in and says 'ZOMG VAS DID IT TO ME TOOOOO,' yes I realize he did. I think he was being over the top as well, but I also feel like you were winding him up with your antagonism from his original points on you. I still find it scummy regardless, but yours on RC is worse because nothing provoked it other than you trying to trump up your vote.

This whole point is carefully fabricated bullshit. Had you read my ISO you would have seen my questions and criticisms of RC’s play throughout the Day BEFORE the RC wagon formed. Since you didn’t here are the ISOs for you (8,17,18 ). Yet somehow you are attempting to portray my suspicion of RC as fabricated out of mid-air. Both incorrect and scumtastic.

I also love that point 2 and 4 (which I’m not bothering to address directly as they say basically ‘VP’s opinion of this is scummy’, which I disagree with) amount to ‘I’m not scum-hunting’ yet when I put together a case on RC it’s scummy. Lovely. Decide which direction you want to push VP.

MoI - do you think Benmage is more likely cult or investigator?

At this point I’m undecided. Asking me yesterday before Night and I would have said most likely Investigator. I can see his personal grudge with Fate overriding any Town sense he had. When he didn’t follow through and kill the rendered useless Fate last night and ‘prove’ his Town cred it shoved me back into the ‘Benmage is Unknown’ category, especially in light of his epic backtrack on his reasoning for stalking in the first place. The fact that he didn’t follow through gives me pause to consider he might be cult playing a very ballys / stupid gambit. He has managed to basically derail the conversation each day with his declarations. The longer this cluster-f with him goes the more I question him as investigator. Fate’s flip will also help shape my opinion. Benmage being Investigator would be more or less solidified if Fate flips Cult.

This is just all kinds of weak sauce. You've played with me and you've played with Zach we are two quite different styles of player so even in a hydra the posting styles are going to be different. I have signed all of my posts bar a couple where I forgot, OJ has signed all her posts it doesn't take a math wiz to realize who made the others. You don't explain why it is odd and seem to be suggesting it was scummy (or else why bother bringing it up?) It just feels like a weak attempt at mud slinging.

Right back at you Sotty. Your entire argument as to why I’m scum is ‘gut’ and filled with no support – weak sauce as you say. I don’t like the direction your arguments have taken because they very much remind me of your Newbie scum game. Your statement above is further indicative. Lots of backhanded insults (re knowing who posted) and accusations – very disproporatiate to the attention I’ve give you. So, yeah, chalk me up for a similar ‘gut’ scum-read on you.

The fact that you don't bother to do anything case wise but latch on with a "I love VP's case" when one is posted strengthens my suspicions.

MoI is my number one suspicion at the moment, every post is so illogical.

Here’s a clue Ben – disagreeing with your play isn’t bad logic. Sorry to burst your bubble but it isn’t. Care to provide quotes of my ‘illogical’ posts as opposed to making unsubstantiated accusations as usual?

I like tnm's last post. When I am at a computer I will explain why I also find kunk likely scum.

Of course you like TNM’s post he agrees with your position

I’m waiting for any sort of scum-hunting and explanation why any of your ‘candidates’ are scum. How about it? You know, actually scum-hunting as opposed to calling those who don’t follow your anti-Town play blindly scum.

No claims here. I want you dead now though, so that I don't have to get your scummy blood in mah clothes.

Actually you want me dead because I hurt your pride. That’s ok. I accept you can’t disconnect your personal pride from logically assessing the game.

VOTE MAGNA. FOR GREATER JUSTICE. (And then we can get rid of Kunkscum right after, ohh yeaahh.)

Ah, another batch of Appealing to Repeition, rhetoric, and an added dash of stupid internet meme. Good times.

That was not the case, I had a full blown case revealing that MoI's INTENTIONS in thread are scummy in nature, and that was me attempting to convince people and my interpretations that his attacks on Furcolow are fail attempts to look like he's scumhunting when he is not(because he's scum etc.).

So you are back to ‘intentions’ again, which you abandoned the first time for ‘He’s scum because he’s not showing scum-tells’ at the end of Day 1. Yawn. When you have something noteworthly let me know.

That quote is, I admit, rhetoric.

You have to admit it. It’s all you do …

Nice try scum. Kunkstar lynch after we are done with MoI, k.

Nice … lining up lynches. Either classic scum play or more example of fail-Town VV traditional play.

MoI has a lot of experience with Furc. He knows that Furc is a derpy player. However he is incessant in his attacks despite knowledge of Furc's play. He didn't even attempt to figure out Furc's alignment and just kept calling him scum for shits and giggles. I found the bullshit in his attacks.

Add that he cares more about his own image than figuring other people out = MoI is SCUM SCUM SCUM.

I do know Furc is a derpy players. Which is why he needs to be eliminated. Allowing VI’s into endgame situations is VERY STUPID Town play in a large game. It allows, I don’t know, Mafia in a horrible PoE situation to go on to win when they have no rights to do so (see Clash of Kings as a perfect example).

Furc is not going to win this game for Town. The Cult are not going to kill him because he’s derpy. Call it a Policy lynch if you wish. This early in the game it’s better to eliminate the landmines when Town has breathing room than later when it cost Town the game.

And look, yet more rhetoric.

PS. Why are there so many votes on Fate's dispatch? Aren't we minimizing the body count to prevent Cult getting dust? I thought this has already been discussed.

Slight FOS on everyone at the wagon. THERE BE SCUMZ THERE TOO. (Specifically MoI but you get the drill.)

Look, I’m so Town it hurts. I’m very worried about Corpse Dust because it would make 1 kill by the Cult more successful despite the fact that we have SO MANY PLAYERS all Town can’t possibly be adequately protected anyway.

Here VV is churning desperately for Town cred. Scumtastic.

VOTE: VV

Because I can.

I read this entire post.
First, you refer to me as a VI. That's pretty popular to do. Good job, bro.
Next, you say that "Furc attacks players who are attacking him", basically.
Couple that with you claiming players need to scumhunt...
and you are a hypocrite.
Your entire post is mudslinging on two players, and you defending yourself. There is no actual scumhunting. Furthermore, YOU are the one attacking people who attack you. I don't give a fuck about you whatsoever, but I do feel like you are cult.

also, you saying I'll be a detriment in the endgame... go read this game of me as town:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=1375

sup?

[Furcolow]

Leaning more to Magna-Town ATM. We'll see. Also

Dispatch: Fate

why?

[Furcolow]

El G: what is the scummiest thing that MoI has done and why?
MoI: what's your position on letting Benmage kill tonight and why?

AV why are you sucking up to MoI here?

[Furcolow]

dispatch fate

can I rob grave fate (on phone, looking to contribute tonight when I get home SC2 has been crack + crazy weekend )

im for it
im not certain im going to be robbing
i dont feel like i need confirmation at all

[Furcolow]

i hate kunkstar's #2128 so much it's not even worth quoting
1) terrible excuses for voting
2) admission he can't scumhunt
3) attacking MoI's attackers

i would vote kunkstar

[Furcolow]

But he can help the Town because he is the closest thing we have to a confirmed investigator.

Disagree. i believe that honour goes to Wickedest.

NO NO NO

go read stars aligned II and see how resuscitation can

RUIN

town
this is

WIFOM

[Furcolow]

his attack of furcolow's confirmness is not something cult will do, and so hard. i think they would have given up that argument long before MoI did. they won't want that much attraction that early on an unlikely mislynch.

I would argue that furc is a perfect subject to tunnel on for cult. His play style is often the subject of much debate and many would excuse MoI for his push because it is

furc

. Also, if the wagon picked up steam and he was lynched, flipping town, MoI can just flip back to his first post touting it was for the good of the town.

However, the main reason I find his heavy handed push on furc so scummy is because it enables to allow MoI to look like he is scum hunting when he isn't.

= = = = = =

I think I’ve clearly indicated above my opinion on Furc. If you want to call what is in effect a Policy push on an absolutely useless player (IMO) scummy that’s your call. Given the end of Clash of Kings I know that you know exactly why I don’t want VI players around at endgame. The fact that you are specifically going out of your way to ignore your direct knowledge gives me pause.

All this ignores the glaring fact that if you are so apposed to VI's you could stalk/vig furc and be done with it. That way you keep your furchate, that had no bearing on the game, out of the thread and done something useful. Like, oh I don't know.... Scumhunting perhaps?

Right back at you Sotty. Your entire argument as to why I’m scum is ‘gut’ and filled with no support – weak sauce as you say. I don’t like the direction your arguments have taken because they very much remind me of your Newbie scum game. Your statement above is further indicative. Lots of backhanded insults (re knowing who posted) and accusations – very disproporatiate to the attention I’ve give you. So, yeah, chalk me up for a similar ‘gut’ scum-read on you.

You might wanna recheck that meta. I'm more logical scum than gut scum, but unless you can make a stronger connection based off more recent meta... AKA a game that isn't nine months old I might be willing to listen.

Also why does it matter that you haven't given me very much attention? We, as in our whole hydra, find you scummy, that doesn't have anything to do with how much you focus on us.

The comment about knowing who posted wasn't backhanded. It was clear who has been posting and you made a mountain out of a mole hill for a situation that wasn't even scummy in the first place.

I have noticed that you don't actively defend posts, you just attack your attackers with the hope of smearing them in your dirt making people forget the actual points against you. I don't like it.

= = = = = =

Furpants:

Suspecting the two rezzers is one thing, but do you think they are both likely cult? I don't have an issue with the rest of your suspects, just the lingering annoyance that I had to call you out for you to start scum hunting again.

~Sotty

QFT

[Furcolow]

Posting from iPod:

1. Sotty7 mentioned the exact same problem I have with MoI's defense: he attacks his attacker. Looks to me like he's exhibiting the same type of defense techniques that he was attacking Furcolow.

2. # graves = # of grave robbers = # of potential murderers stopped, so more graves means more potential murderers stopped... So we should dispatch Fate.

3. I looked at kunkstar7's defense and he's still scum! I'll explain later.

I'll respond to Vas next.

QFT

[Furcolow]

Also, Wickedest please comment on MoI/Kunk connections I have brought up. Thx.

I think you may have a good point about them being connected.

QFT

[Furcolow]

AV why are you sucking up to MoI here?

How is it sucking up?

attacking his attacker/the other wagon
staging a question to MoI to help him appear pro-town

how is that not kissing his ass? you are being his yes man essentially.

[Furcolow]

im not certain im going to be robbing
i dont feel like i need confirmation at all

Furc, it's not to confirm you but to assist town =_="

Didn't mean to double post, I didn't realise I had also tabbed this quote to respond to.

i will rob one grave
i am ressing someone
i heard noise last night, so it would be nice if i didnt die myself

[Furcolow]

i also agree with wickedest laundering... or else

blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool
let the lord of chaos rule

[Furcolow]

of course i meant El G
nice deflection
answer the question

why are you sucking up to MoI?
why are you attacking El G?
you flip flop your position like a cultist

[Furcolow]

i found that last post from MoI to be poisoning the well, and his admission of not wanting to scumhunt is worth a noose

[Furcolow]

i'm on page 88 at furpant's post under my last. i am going to read from 88 to 93 and respond to every single post.

[Furcolow]

before i do a followup post, i need to do a wagon analysis one since it is key

MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)
El Goosuki - 5 (Seacore, SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith, xvart, Nicodemus)
kunkstar7 - 5 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)

i feel like there are a lot of scum on both the el goosuki and kunkstar7 wagons
i feel like kunkstar7 is who the mafia have decided is an easy mislynch.
he is, go look at the end of star aligned II. they were smart enough to keep 3 semi-VIs alive in ani/me/kunk
props to semioldguy for that.

kunkstar is a vi because he was deemed so in SA2 and he is being deemed so in SA3
kunkstar will flip investigator because he is a cultist push of a wagon
a lot of people are scummy on it
i dont know if we have enough time to switch, and im afraid MoI might be cult because there is a lot of people i view to be town on his wagon, but if MoI is town he is a valuable asset in scumhunting. Believe me, he caught me before. I am considering switching my vote off of him but I am quite torn on the matter.

Player Analysis

MagnaofIllusion

- 7
(Trilobite - pro-town as fuck
VP Baltar - null read-wise but he is pro-town. I feel he is good enough to fake that as scum so I am mildly wary. Policy lynch for being too good? I really like his play in any game.
Benmage - We will see if he is town or not tonight, I guess. He could be cult, but I bet he's town.
VasudeVa - I am pretty sure VV is town if MoI is scum. If MoI is town, I am not sure if VV is scum. Kind of null, kind of town.
hitogoroshi - The most pro-town at the start, but I believe he needs to re-study the mechanics somewhat
Furcolow - the drunken village idiot
Plum - need to contribute to winning for the town or be lynched.

El Goosuki

- 5
Seacore - my gut screams scum. I feel like he is good at wiggling out of wagons when he's scum, but I don't know him as a player yet. He might actually be town. I'm leaning scum slightly on him
SpyreX - defended me late after the whole LB/Fate/Benmage/Percy the great lord cthulhu altercation in which multiple souls had to be banished to the eternal abyss.... anyways
kunkstar7 - i believe he is a investivator vi. honestly. i've played with him as one before, will anyone else back me up on this?
Wraith - not sure. don't really like his play, but i have no read on him really.
xvart - is either very pro-town or good at making cute-claims as scum. i'd love to see him hang.
Nicodemus - cult
kunkstar7 - 5 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)

[Furcolow]

kunkstar7

- 5
(totallynotmafia - lurker imo
Wickedestjr- town
Furpants_Tom- town
nopointinactingup - it's him or feysal are cult imo
Nicodemus -

@mod

where is nicodemus vote.....? i see two here. i'm sorry if this is lately notified, as I have yet to properly catchup. Thanks!

anyways, I feel like the slot Nicodemus replaced into tried to coast by as cult
I would happily lynch that slot.

[Furcolow]

The deadline for Day 2 is 10:30am, Wednesday November 24th default site time.

With 25 alive, 13 votes secures a Lynch/Dispatch.

10 players want a dispatch:VP Baltar - not as protown as i felt he was in SA2
kunkstar7 - investigator VI
MagnaofIllusion - obviously scum right?
Seacore - ''
nopointinactingup - not sure if he's an investigator or cult really
Trilobite - i like him as an investigator
manho - i'd be willing to lynch him because his votes have no fucking reasoning 90 fucking pages into a game
Wickedestjr - i viewed him as town even before the last night
Baby Spice - scumvi
Benmage - town vi or scum vi i dont care, i would lynch him... unless he murders a cult... in which case i will apologize and give him a medal or cookie, depending on his choosing, maybe both.

[Furcolow]

1. What do you think of the MoI wagon and it's constituents? Do you agree with my case?

town

Yes.
2. What do you think of the El Goo wagon and it's constituents? Do you agree with their case?

scum

no.

3. Why did you vote me D1?

4. What is your opinion on the dispatches?

I dislike them, I feel like we could have played this differently. I'd rather see fate than MoI

5. Do you have any opinions as to the claims from N1? What about LB's insanity on their flip?

I believe LB is cult and crafted 3 fetishes.

6. Care to share a quick town/scum list?

I've done this

[Furcolow]

I need to catch up. I have time to do so now and I will catchup. I am not sure what all I will respond to.
I heard noise last night
I am not bloody
I am an investigator

doing my catchup now
-furc

[Furcolow]

It explains Fatehate/fatestalk/fatelynch.
Why try and claim a kill when he can claim to have stalked the lynched player, or claimed to have changed his mind.

Far fetched but it does explain a lot.

It also begs the question if we were about lynch the person Benmage was going to stalk would he say anything?

Can we lynch Baby Spice today? That would be exciting.

Actually, I'm not opposed to this action, but I would be much more supportive once RC flips and if he flips Cult.

I looked at the OP and I think that everyday we should be claiming if we are bloody or not. Here's why: The only ways you can get bloody are by being resuscitated from a kill successfully, trying to murder a player, or trying to kill a player in the ritual. The only way that a townie can get bloody is if somebody tried to kill them, and that's something we should be claiming. If we claim this everyday, and an investigator with a forensic kit discovers that somebody is bloody that wasn't supposed to be actually was, then that means they are either a cultist or a murderer. This is very important information. So, we should be claiming if we are bloody, but that is basically just claiming that you had been successfully resuscitated. Learning who was successfully resuscitated from a kill is information that doesn't help scum that much, because it is information that they already know (if cult's target was protected they'd know about it, and I believe cult should know who is getting murdered based on who heard noise).

I agree with claiming if we are bloody or not. Even so, if the Cult/Murderer are forced to be claimed bloody at the risk of being outted by someone investigating him/her, then they have to concoct some fabricated story that will hopefully catch up with them some point down the line.

I looked at the OP and I think that everyday we should be claiming if we are bloody or not. Here's why: The only ways you can get bloody are by being resuscitated from a kill successfully, trying to murder a player, or trying to kill a player in the ritual. The only way that a townie can get bloody is if somebody tried to kill them, and that's something we should be claiming. If we claim this everyday, and an investigator with a forensic kit discovers that somebody is bloody that wasn't supposed to be actually was, then that means they are either a cultist or a murderer. This is very important information. So, we should be claiming if we are bloody, but that is basically just claiming that you had been successfully resuscitated. Learning who was successfully resuscitated from a kill is information that doesn't help scum that much, because it is information that they already know (if cult's target was protected they'd know about it, and I believe cult should know who is getting murdered based on who heard noise).

I agree with claiming if we are bloody or not. Even so, if the Cult/Murderer are forced to be claimed bloody at the risk of being outted by someone investigating him/her, then they have to concoct some fabricated story that will hopefully catch up with them some point down the line.

MoI's attacks on Furc are MoI's attempts to

look

like he's scumhunting. Seriously, his attacks are HORRIBLE and his justifications are just as bad.

What about my attacks on Furcolow? Were my reasonings better than MoIs?

I like Wickeds case on Kunkstar, and would switch to that wagon accordingly.

vote: moi

policy lynch
too tough to read him

What's the policy?

Am I the only one who finds Xvart and El Goos targeting each other slightly hinky. Especially with El G choosing to look for something that couldn't be there.

Nope, that's definitely odd. And for xvart, a rather unlucky coincidence, considering his N0 action was to target someone also targeted by Baby Spice.

Xvart's explanation for his Goo action is interesting, but by the end of D1, I'm pretty sure that Furcolow's story was well accepted. Moreover, given that there had already been a mod clarification that pretty much spelt out what would happen in Furcolow's case, I don't know what additional proof you were looking for. So it's difficult to see exactly how your action benefited the town.

Warding people on N0 and N1 is fine; but the unique circumstances of your actions are starting to cause me puzzlement and dismay.

Xvart: Do you think that anyone else was likely to have been targeting El Goosuki last night?

Well, you may be right that it didn't benefit the town, but it benefited me; like I said, it cleared it up for me so I could move on, and if you've played with me before you would know that I have a terrible way of holding on to things forever and tunneling. Also like I said, my original plan was to change my action, but after I got a response from VI I decided that might be considered unethical and gaming the system, which I didn't want to do.

As for your question, I don't know if anyone else would be targeting El Goosuki last night. From my perspective now, maybe a fellow Cultist warding to protect against a Stalker.

Caught up through 87. More later; but I want to add that I'm going to be super disappointed if El Goosuki loses votes while they continue to lurk and not read and not play.

xvart.

not reading =/= not investigator

in response to the bolded and underlined: I actually like your reasoning more. I feel like you are trying a pro-town tactic to confirm me. I will probably die tonight, but I won't go down that path right now. I like your case more because yours carried the opportunity for me to have been fakeclaiming and going down the path of the murderer. The thing is, I pride myself on my lower-level math, and I realize that winning as a murderer is statistically fucking nearly-impossible. Couple that with my liking to win, and yeah, not me... not my style. not once, not nevuh.

MoI's case is null. He would push my lynch as town or as scum.

In response to the italicized: I feel MoI is a good player. I do not want him as scum in my game. If he is town, that sucks, but he is too hard to read. Having an easy read on someone (like me) helps the town. Having a hard time reading someone like MoI hurts the town from my perspective.

He is a policy lynch because he is a good player. Furthermore, I feel like he would be posting more as town and whining less. I am keeping my vote where it is.

Nice way to not answer the question. It sounds like you're saying you don't want to stop him from killing, but do you think Benmage SHOULD kill tonight, and why?

The obvious answer is that Benmage should not kill.

1. The odds that he hits Cult, despite his bravado, are slight.
2. Keeping the Town alive pool as big as possible until we get some actual alignment flips to work with for relational tells will aid the Town long term.
3. The precious free Vig bite Investigators get should be saved until midgame.

My question to you – what purpose do you have asking the question. It’s not going to tell you one bit about my or anyone else’s alignment.

See, the problem here is that you deny 1 and 2 while admitting to them at the same time... that's spinning my brain around in circles.

Also, saying you're doing things to avoid being killed early amounts to admitting that you're playing scummy. You can't say that people don't have legitimate points on you when this is your defense for those actions.

Denying they are any sort of indication of scum-tells doesn’t mean I haven’t been purposely abrasive. If abrasiveness was a scum-tell Fate, Benmage, Sociopath and a host of others would have to be Mafia EVERY game. Making myself disliked for my abrasivness (and creating the air of future lynchability) hardly is commiting scummy actions.

Oh! It's your playstyle! Uhhh... no. That's not an acceptable reason to not be scumhunting.

Yet I am scum-hunting. I admitted it would be HAMPERED until relational tells appeared. You are specifically ignoring what was said and repeating the falsehood.

FACT – I questioned and put together a case on ReaperCharlie. You and others can cry all you want about it not being scum-hunting. It’s as much scum-hunting as ANYONE in the game has done.

Which is it?

Are your purposely being dense and attempting to assert some sort of contradiction here?

IN GENERAL lurking isn’t a scum-tell for everyone. However, in the case of a HYDRA WITH THREE PLAYERS WHO AREN’T IDIOTS the amount of lurking being done by El Goo leads me to believe they might well be scum. Especially when at least 1 of those heads has a history of laying low when scum.

In fact any of the Hydras in this game that are having a hard time keeping pace while single players are easily able to should be considered suspect.

What are you trying to say here? Are you actively susicious of me, or just don't find me obv-Town? If it's the latter, but you currently don't suspect me, why write this at all? If you do suspect me, why did you write this not as a case but as an admonition to anyone who finds me Townish? In either case I don't see a good reason for this to be formulated the way this is.

Nice. You pop up suddenly when your name appears in a less than positive manner. And you don’t address the issues I addressed. I’ve been hammered for being only about self-preservation and here’s a perfect example. No comments about issues not aimed directly at you or scum-hunting?

You are definitely not obv-Town.

As for the rest of the questions? Sorry, you blew off my question regarding El Goo not once but twice. I don’t know why you should expect me to do you the courtesy you didn’t extend.

MoI, do you really think I'm scum? Why are you voting for me? Do you even have a case?

You don’t have a case on me. Why should I need one on you? Why so touchy about a single vote?

Bro-drius, I know you're busy and all but can you please grace us with your presence? Your last post was on Nov 4. I'll ask you these questions to help you ease back into the game:

Yeah, after he’s been called out for lurking making his transition back into the game easy is so nice of you. And you very well know he had plenty of time to SPAM the Dead QT in LOTR Mafia so he had time to post here. But please, make excuses for the player who you logically should have no idea of his alignment.

Well, the overlap isn't just between two investigators - as you say, that's statistically likely (assuming randomness). However, the likelihood of three actions targeting the same player (cult, npau, Feysal) is significantly smaller, and no-one's pointed to any standout qualities of Wicked that might attract these actions, over, say, VP Baltar or xvart. However, there's a limited field, and potentially a fair few kits, so I haven't entirely disregarded the possibility of a coincidence; I'm just skeptical at this point. I think it's at least as good an indicator as any of the behavioural reads people are throwing around.

I think the scepticism is healthy. And you are correct that the behavioral tells being presented are very weak at this stage. I guess I’m not willing to focus my attention directly based on what could be happenstance. This incidence goes in my back pocket for future relational assessment of Feysal and NoPoint.

If you don't think Furc is of any use to the town, why didn't you just stalk him and vig him out? Confirming your status as an investigator in the process.
If you don't scum hunt well before flips are revealed, why not keep a bit quieter and wait for them?
If you wanted to dribble scum to avoid being a NK, why do so in such an abrasive fashion? Especially in a game with so much potential for "doctor" saves for those who manage to get obv/confirmed town status.

Stalking and killing someone right out of the box is absurdly Anti-Town. The one free bite at the Vig every investigator had should be saved for the strategic time later in the game.

I said my abilities were hampered before flips not that I’m an idiot. I can point to any number of games where I nailed and lynched scum Day 1. Most of those coincide with me being killed early. Once Reaper’s alignment is known we can assess the quality of my Day 1 case.

The potential for Doc saves are highly overrated, especially if you consider that anyone using a Rez kit can’t be rezzed. And I’ve died many a game which had Docs while being ObvTown. There are enough ‘name’ players in the game that banking on protection is a dumb move.

What in the name of everything holy is this?

"I'm scummy on PURPOSE, yo" is garbage. In THIS setup with no PR's I have no words.

Spare me. You’ve made a career here of being obtuse and annoying as a tactic to limit your perceived obv-Town status.

MoI ditches the ElG wagon when it started taking off, ElG votes MoI but then removes the vote.

So you are saying, as scum-buddies, that the smart play would be to abandon each other’s wagon as the were built?

And wouldn’t I have to have voted for El Goo at any point today to have ‘abandoned the wagon’? Because I didn't vote for them today.

This unfortunately is applying to the MoI case right now. I respect him as a really good player, so I'm instantly more suspicious of him than I am of others. To complicate the situation, players like Oj, VP Baltar, and sotty have all said that he's scummy. But, I still feel guilty when I think about voting him because I don't want him to die if I'm wrong. I do see his scumminess, but I'm just less comfortable voting him than I am other players.

I have to ask Nico – where does your impression of my ability come from? We’ve never (unless I’m having a senior moment right now) played a game together and I’ve never been modded by you.

I’m going to say to you what I said to Mina after Clash of Kings – never let a players reputation affect your willingness to vote when you think someone is scummy. Too often people with reps get a pass because ‘Player Y is so awesome and if I voted him and was wrong it would be a huge mistake’. And they shouldn’t. It’s one of my major peeves about the culture here on MS (or part of it, I also despise some of the cronying that goes on in certain circles).

At the same time you have pushed mislynches on Vis and policy lynches.
You are also a hypocrite.

I also disagree on the RC flip, so that's not "scumhunting". That's scum commandeering a fucking easy ass mislynch on my fucking brother.

I will avenge RC's death tonight
leave MoI for me
someone res me tonight
I am stalking MoI, I will use my res kit I have gained after I have confirmed my kill.

[Furcolow]

@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

1) you're not my boss
2) why, in your opinion, is this a bad thing?

[Furcolow]

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

everybody makes mistakes
nobodies perfect
i had like 3 stalks in SA2 and i didnt kill anyone
if someone will res me tonight, though, i promise ill kill MoI
otherwise i might die

[Furcolow]

Because it's such bizzare play that it might just be genuine?

Nah, everything I said yesterday about Bowser is true of El G, only without a halfway decent excuse. He's scummy, the only real reason he didn't make my list before is that I didn't trust the wagon. Not for any particlar reason, just habit.

I agree with this, and tom is one of my town reads at this point
I feel uncomfortable jumping on El Goosuki not because of their slot, they have sucked balls (and I would expect more out of Ellibereth and DGB [hence why I warded them N0], but whatever), but their wagon feels scummy as fuck to me.

[Furcolow]

@Trilobyte: Cuz I like following confirmed town better.
@Seacore: That's exactly why they aren't scummy.
@Magna: Stop spamming man =.=. Your mini game posts were already enough to blurry my vision.

follow me then
what is the point of this post
who isnt scummy?
why are you telling MoI to stop spamming? he has like 2-3% of the posts, that is hardly spamming. Why are you so concerned with MoI? Cultist buddy getting mislynched, NoPointInActingUp? that's what my gut is tellin me bro

[Furcolow]

if we can lynch babyspice or that nopointinactingmafia guy and noone robs the 2 graves i pick of my picking
then we might talk

[Furcolow]

I am robbing two graves of my own choosing

[Furcolow]

hi iecerint.

[Furcolow]

also, sorry. it's hard to trust a non-aligned neighborize imo

[Furcolow]

I've noticed that my predecessors (!) claimed things. If my slot has any outstanding claims to make, please indicate it.

your predecessor lurked and appeared like cult
everyone has claimed things
if you can't iso manho, i don't know what you can do
i remember that being where you replaced into
am i wrong about that?
is his iso not like 20 posts or less?

[Furcolow]

i'll agree with benmage not revealing his target then.

What about revealing a list of potential targets?

not at all. let's the cults guess who'll die and who needed the res.

Don't like this interaction with seacore. The way he used an apostrophe, and the general language, to me, indicate that he is having difficulty addressing the cult as being someone other than himself. I do not have that difficulty. I am not cult.

Iecerint, why do you feel your predecessor had a difficult time addressing the cult as another entity separate from himself, and shrugged off scumhunting unless it involved murderers?

done iso on MoI, but he is town.

oh, nice content filled post here, too.
plus a jeep tell.
i don't give a fuck if they're "outdated". People act roughly the same as they did in 2005.

[Furcolow]

MoI is the lynch today, that's what happened. He's lurking harder and contributing less than El G now in an attempt to dodge the rope. Feel free to vote accordingly.

am i disagreeing....?
im just making a connection

[Furcolow]

i am happy with iecerint's response
but he could deflect as scum
if wingless wasn't so town, i would honestly be a little more suspicious
if MoI is scum, though, I will be voting Iecerint even if he busses him

Also, in response to Iecerint's notes:
Yes, I heard noise N1.

[Furcolow]

I am robbing both Fate and LB

[Furcolow]

no other town need rob them

[Furcolow]

i would suggest wickedest to rob the other two
that way, we only need 2 people

[Furcolow]

actually, ill do LB/RC since wickedest is bloody and I can double-stack rez kits I believe if I'm the only one on RC

[Furcolow]

no, we're ignoring yours, because you're a damn cultist.

[Furcolow]

how is warding n0/searching for rez kit n1 unreliable?
claiming who i'm going to rob as confirmed-town is unreliable?
stealing your thunder has you whining as a cultist?

i'm leaning towards #3

anyways, there is no reason I shouldn't be robbing because I heard noise and will likely die
Me getting insanities =/= being potentially modkilled if I am killed tonight, which I will be, since I am confirmed town

How have ANY of my night actions been "unreliable"?
how am I "unreliable"?
what lead you to believe this?
thanks.

[Furcolow]

Your night actions weren't unreliable, your cooperation is.
You've gone back and forward on your whether you'd grave rob both Day 1 and Day 2. When we were trying to cement a plan, you refused to participate. Now that we've got a plan that more than 7 people agree with (i.e. It can't just be cultists) now you pipe up and decide to change the plan.

This is why I'm ignoring you. You were originally part of the plan, because it made sense for you to grave rob, but you refused to participate so we were forced to make plans without you.

me not being here =/= me refusing to participate
i realized two flips > failed res
sue me

[Furcolow]

blah blah blah

[Furcolow]

can we please end this day for the love of god

[Furcolow]

Grave Rob Roster
RC = Wicked, 2nd Wagonee
Fate = Benmage, 3rd Wagonee
LB = Furcolow, 3rd Wagonee
Lynchee = Furcolow, 2nd Wagonee

Furcolow, would you agree to this roster?

Please for the love of god say

wicked is bloody
he does not need to be on RC
are you fucking dumb?

[Furcolow]

^ is he laundering?

[Furcolow]

Yes.

[Furcolow]

seacore is scared i will pull the rug out from under him and catch my cultist "wagonee" not robbing

his plan is asinine, and the cult can weigh votes to get the 2nd and 3rd wagonee with someone who is "town" enough to get ONE corpse dust.

the best plan is to have me on 2, and another confirmed town on 2 (benmage/wickedest)
who gives a fuck about the wagonees, and splitting it 4 ways?
you're enabling cult to get 1 dust

who says hito isnt cult?
who says vp baltar isnt cult?
the wagonee can just skimp, and they know the town can do it

if you are town, and in this "grave rob plan", you are potentially getting the wool pulled over your eyes.

[Furcolow]

and if ANYONE says "we can check them for insanities", who is to say they won't just craft 3 fetishes?
WIFOM.

[Furcolow]

Ok. Grave rob plans:

I don't like that Seacore is making the plans. I don't consider him anywhere near town enough to be trusted to do that. I want the people making those plans to be the most town we have.
I personally don't want Furcolow anywhere near the robbing. I don't trust him. Sure he's fairly obv investigator, (Note investigator, not town) but I don't trust him not to decide to fake a result, no doubt for what he'd consider good reasons, especially if one of the town robbers ends up being killed by the cult or a murderer.
Finally, I don't want last minute confusion by people throwing idea's around. When it comes time to hammer, I think one of Wickedest, Hito, or VPB (as our towniest in decending order) should set themselves up to be the hammer vote, and that they publish what the graverob plan will be and then hammer. They can decide amongst themselves who does it.

Waited long enough for MoI to answer questions.

Vote MoI

so investigators aren't town to you?

unvote

vote: baby spice

[Furcolow]

the post i quoted was on this page
explain how my vote is omgus
i doubt you have the ability to stalk, but it would take an idiot VI worse than me to stalk confirmed town like me or wickedestjr... and none are in this game..... ARE THEY?

also, my night actions = pro-town so far
i will also be ritualed no doubt as town wont lynch me ever

[Furcolow]

i'm not going to rez tonight, so people with resuscitation kits may save me if they would like. i would rob two graves. i'm fine not robbing, though. i will just search for forensics in all likelihood.

[Furcolow]

I'd like to hear vasudeva's "views", but that's trivial and he will dodge any real pressure imo.

@Iecerint: glad you're caught up. I would play PvZ anytime.
I like Benmage's recent post, I believe it was around #2574.
Since I'm not robbing, and I heard noise and want to be rezzed, I am going to ward someone who didn't hear noise

N1:
AurorusVox (1714, 1746)
Hito (1719)
Trilobite (1722)
kunk (1729) - targetted by furpants_tom supposedly
xvart (1735) - targetted by el goosuki, not bloody
wickedestjr (1745)
Wraith (1747) [passed a fetish - twitchy]
MoI (1757)
El Goosuki (1760, 1763) [warded by xvart]
Spyrex (1774)
Feysal (1775)
Furcolow (1798)
Baby Spice (1811)
Seacore (1814)
Furpants_Tom (1818)
Triglav (1837)
Totallynotmafia (1861)
Plum (1872)

Cross-reference with the playerlist leaves this as people potentially wardable (the 7 who didn't hear noise):

Andrius
Benmage
Iecerint
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
VasudeVa
VP Baltar

if any of the above have heard noise, please let me know in bold

props to benmage for the inspiration for this idea

I am pre-claiming a ward on someone tonight so I may be rezzed since I heard noise. I will be warding someone from my above list. Reminder that I have a rez kit in case I die, even if it will probably not ever get any use unless I live until next night.

[Furcolow]

i found feysal #2605 to be IIoA
i would quickwagon him

[Furcolow]

and the information he used to refute me he probably found in my own post
furthermore, just because one action creates explainable noise, it does not mean there is not unexplainable noise with it


...just a quick refutation

[Furcolow]

i wish this was as easy as a claim/counterclaim scenario in which we lynch either feysal/nopointinactingup, but it is not. With this plan wickedest suggested, even if they are trying to outplay us, we force a potential cultist counterclaimer like Feysal/NPAU into being locked into actions somewhat. If NPAU got a res kit, for instance, we would know to lynch feysal. If they only robbed 1 grave (maximum 1 cult dust), we would know it by a lack of flip and lynch one of them anyways.

I ask this, then:
Is it really best to delay on lynching one of them as a town?
I wouldn't be the first to say yes.
NPAU feels safe for today
Feysal even acts like confirmed town
I would be fine lynching either of these guys
I wouldn't be surprised if they both were cult, but if I had to pick one, I'd pick Feysal. I'm expecting that to be the way our current lynchee flips, though. Lets get this day over with. Anyone want warded?

[Furcolow]

i'm not that worried about any plans
what i'm worried about is our wagon being on scum
hoping MoI is, as i don't see this being derailed

[Furcolow]

switch benmage and vp baltar, since there is no way benmage
1) isn't town
2) has a rez kit
+
we know RC claimed a rez kit
so
benmage might get a rez kit
and he wont skimp on robbing

[Furcolow]

nevermind
murder resolves after grave robbing
he would just waste it murdering town

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: moi

just follow vp baltar and feysal's plans

[Furcolow]

well, VV was just defending me if anything
why send a boy to do a man's job?

[Furcolow]

stalking andrius tonight

[Furcolow]

i warded you, iecerint
i heard noise.

[Furcolow]

I have 0 insanities, and I'm not bloody.
I almost rezzed plum, but then I didn't want to go back on my word that I was going to ward, so I sent in a different action with like 2-3 hours left.

vote: el goosuki

[Furcolow]

17 v 7
i can't believe they were all investigators
i have a feeling MoI was our murderer, but we'll see tomorrow night (unless the murderer got caught in the graverob plan)

[Furcolow]

CD3

Username:

Furcolow

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Yes, Iecerint

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

0 insanities

List all of the insanities you currently have:

N/A

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

I didn't rez

Were you murdered?

lol no

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

No

[Furcolow]

I motion to remove the "(note these are both poor n1 choices.)" segment

[Furcolow]

BenMage needs to be held in check since he is no longer "confirmed town"
We need to force him to rob two graves *AND ONLY HIM*

[Furcolow]

tomorrow is our only chance to lynch the murderer who killed LB if they strike again, Andrius

[Furcolow]

If cult decide to never kill me, I'll be a confirmed townie that survives to the end.

*facepalm*

This is starting to be like talking to Furc. You guys really need to get over your 'I'm confirmed town, therefore I know better than everyone else' mentality because you're wrong. You're causing LYLO to happen a day early. Do you not realize how bad that is for the town? When scum come in and power lynch you because nobody can stop their majority, I hope your confirmed town status gives you comfort.

sounds awfully suspect. I could very easily see you mentioning such in your first post (waiting on results from Percy or something like that) or even not posting at all until the results come in (that's what I'd do.) I simply can't imagine posting "yes" without an explanation as to why you have no result.

I agree with this. I don't see why you'd post without your full results first. The first thing I would have done is talk to Percy.



@hito - I just thought of something re: Spyrex that could make him non-cult. Are you thinking of the same thing? Suddenly your opposition to the wagon is making sense. I don't want to say anything yet because I want everyone to speak first, but still. hmm.

You may dislike talking to me, but I have 0 insanities. I'd like some explanation as to how the hell I heard noise two nights in a row, though.

[Furcolow]

I really hate this frankly. It's the perfect cult claim for gaining an insanity. "I stalked, but now I've come to my senses and won't be killing tonight. Sorry about the mess up guys." Perfect way to hide the ritual.

I understand where you are coming through, but let me be clear: I have been given the green light to murder Furculow tonight. He wasn't Warded. But since we have had no Cult flips I am more hesitant to extinguish his life right now.

I also want to remind everyone the last time someone self voted he was not going for the town win condition.

xvart.

unvote;
vote: xvart

i'm town, moron, with 0 insanities... a rez kit... and my actions at night have all been protown
I am not bloody
I am sort of not even scared
Xvart, how can you make your 2nd night action be confirming that my action defaulted to El Goosuki, and then turn around and stalk me? I wouldn't be surprised if you were the person who stalked Lost Butterfly.

I'm not unvoting you. No way. If town really let you live, they deserve to lose.
You can't let investigators murder other investigators. No way.

[Furcolow]

how am I hurting your chances to win?
I would have robbed two graves
I would stalk anyone I was directed to stalk
I have a rez kit
I have warded two players, would you have rather I rezzed plum? That was my first action. Why are you pissed at me? Was warding Iecerint a bad thing? You listed Warding as a "great option" in your plan. Was it not a great option? How am I reducing your chances of winning? The people hurting your chances of winning are people who are playing like I was LAST stars aligned, not THIS stars aligned, and missing stalks (xvart, benmage)

those are the people who need lynched along with players who have terrible night actions like el goosuki. i have listed 3 people more deserving of a lynch than i. my blood/insanity count can be verified to be pro-town.

did you read that xvart stalked me, vp baltar? what are your thoughts on that? what will i flip?

[Furcolow]

he can't even spell my name right
i thought he liked good music, but i guess his brain is roger watered down

[Furcolow]

due to our treatment of benmage*

[Furcolow]

vp baltar

quit straw manning and answer the questions completely

[Furcolow]

it's also funny xvart/el goosuki targeted each other with their second night actions
im not voting you
i want you to answer how you believe i would flip

[Furcolow]

xvart, i am mad at you, and do not wish to talk to you
i warded iecerint because he is a good player

[Furcolow]

also, i didn't move my vote. i am still down for lynching your lying cultist ass.

[Furcolow]

hai guys im xvart we have lost 5 of our allies, but i'm going to stalk mod confirmed town

you are so good xvart

[Furcolow]

I am tired of players like him thinking they know what is best for a town that is dying and in need of a leader. Players like VP Baltar would let us slowly rot away as opposed to actually trying to coordinate ways to confirm each other (WHICH ISN'T MURDERING FELLOW INVESTIGATORS XVART)

[Furcolow]

guys please lynch xvart
i dont need to die. the fact he would stalk my slot is indicative that he needs to be removed from the game.
i understand benmage's targets, but i have no understanding for xvart. if he really wanted me gone, he would have stalked me night one (N0), and killed me already. If he was acting "pro-town" like he is claiming he did. His entire night actions haven't added up, with his late claim N0, and his "warding drippereth" n1 to "confirm me" which ends in his stalking me??? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

[Furcolow]

I am tired of players like him thinking they know what is best for a town that is dying and in need of a leader.

1

Players like VP Baltar would let us slowly rot away as opposed to actually trying to coordinate ways to confirm each other

2

1

Are you suggesting that you are that leader?

2

You mean like yesterday when you hammered after someone wrote in big bold letters DO NOT HAMMER while everyone was still coordinating and confirming town plans?

Furcolow - why did you not rez last night?

Also, if you are so convinced of your pro-town awesomeness someone will rez you tonight, right?

Xvart. Let's assume you kill Furcolow tonight. What do you think he's flipping, and how many insanities do you think he will have?

He'll probably flip Investigator and I'm guessing his insanity count is what he says it is.

i've got some things to say about the SpyreX situation but I'm waiting until after the final two people have claimed.

xvart.

That day had dragged on forever. I was mad they were leaving me out of the graverobbing plan.
I sent in a rez on plum, but I changed my mind because I am selfish. Where I heard noise, I wanted to be able to be rezzed by someone. You are actually preventing me from being able to feel safe in using a rez kit (on the off chance someone rezzes me), so I will ward Iecerint again.

[Furcolow]

part of me doesnt care xvart stalked me. he could be confirmed town for a day. one day. that's all he would get out of it before he got ritualed. hell, they might even ritual him right after he kills me tonight. that'd be 2 dead investigators. we really need that you guys. good job xvart.

[Furcolow]

scum buddy town, bs, so i would say it would be null in relation to wickedest. being a resuscitatee, he is likely town barring some crazy cult-gambit.

[Furcolow]

I don't believe xvart in the slightest
The more I think about it, the more I am believing this is a cute cult trick to get out of having performed a greater ritual
Xvart needs more votes.

[Furcolow]

i don't really care if xvart murders me, better me than someone who is a great scumhunter

[Furcolow]

"too scummy for scum"
you've got to be kidding me
the only people that dismisses are people who mess up stalks like i did last game

[Furcolow]

That day had dragged on forever. I was mad they were leaving me out of the graverobbing plan.
I sent in a rez on plum, but I changed my mind because I am selfish. Where I heard noise, I wanted to be able to be rezzed by someone. You are actually preventing me from being able to feel safe in using a rez kit (on the off chance someone rezzes me), so I will ward Iecerint again.

So what part of DO NOT HAMMER did you not understand or didn't think applied to you? Can you take a reason why you were left out of the grave robbing plans?

Why did you rez Plum?

WTF PLUM I'm not questioning the validity of Feysal's analysis. FEYSAL's ANALYSIS WOULD BE FINE. IF HE DID NOT REZ WICKED. The fact that he Rez Wicked and still didn't consider Wicked to be confirmed town IS A SCUM SLIP. The fact that you are not getting this either imply that you are stubborn headedly trying to defend your scumbuddy Plum.

So did both you and Feysal claim to have rezzed Wicked, right? Did he claim it after you?

---

Does anyone else get the feeling that El Goosuki and SpyreX are Cult busing Cult?

In the meantime ElG is too scummy for scum. I do not see scum playing that card for extra fetishes or whatever. El G is for stalking though. ElG actually smells like the counter-wagon. Not sure what you're sniffing hito but counterwagons happen on obvscum, not Spyscum.

Unless El Goosuki was setup as the fall person so Cult get get a super bus in since they have been operating on a short leash for a long time. It's more than likely only a matter of time before El Goosuki gets lynched and they could get a super bus in for super town credentials, plus get an insanity for greater ritual or whatever.

If no one claims rez on SX, cult 100% rezzed SX. If cult rezzed SX, SX is 90% cult.

Well this is basically what I was going to say after the claims that if no one claims SpyreX's rez then SpyreX is Cult. Cult wouldn't rez anyone that isn't Cult, so I don't agree with the 90% figure.

xvart.

Plum heard noise, after I cross referenced the list, and is one of my favorite pro-town players. That's why I was rezzing her. However, I had claimed I was going to ward someone, and had wanted to ward Iecerint of all the people I could ward, so I chose to do that instead.

unvote;
vote: el goosuki

there is no possible way they are not cult. those 3 heads playing the idiot is impossible. if they're investigator, i don't know if i will ever have respect for any of them again, and that's saying a lot from me.

if they really took suicidal, they deserve to be lynched even more because we can't have that in lylo as a town (why wickedestjr and benmage will have to be policy lynched before lylo)

[Furcolow]

p.s. waste of breathe indeed

but i believe long days hurt town

please, please, baby lemonade

[Furcolow]

L-2.

We need to get a couple of things straight before hammahtime. Have to pick graverobbers, and I need to update the reference. I'm a bit strapped for time, so I'd appreciate the danger/no danger lists from someone.

Also, Furc, curious as to your thoughts on this:

If you think Xvart is cult and not murderer, we could have you bet your life on it. I'd rather avoid investigators murdering investigators, but if you honestly think he's cult we could do that.

i feel like if he's an investigator he shouldn't carry through with it, and if he's mafia he can't because he will be busy performing cultic rituals. I feel sacrificing a confirmed townie for another confirmed townie (if he was even successful in killing me) isn't that advantageous to the town.

[Furcolow]

I've been waiting for all claims to come in before voting, and with hammertime looming I will keep waiting. We've yet to hear from Nicodemus this day phase, everyone else has claimed. I searched for his posts, and it looks like his last post in this game was 12 days ago, and on the site 10 days ago. I'd say he needs a prod.

L-2.

We need to get a couple of things straight before hammahtime. Have to pick graverobbers, and I need to update the reference. I'm a bit strapped for time, so I'd appreciate the danger/no danger lists from someone.

I made those lists the last time, might as well do them again.

Players without fetishes

(warding them makes most sense)
Benmage
Iecerint
Nicodemus (pending information of noise)

I removed everyone from this list who heard noise and was not warded. We may have explanations for some of those noises, but since we can't be certain if those actions masked fetishes being crafted, we can't assume those players are safe any more.

Players in danger of ritual kill

(resuscitation targets)
Andrius
AurorusVox
Baby Spice
El Goosuki
Feysal
Furcolow
hitorogoshi
kunkstar7
nopointinactingup
Plum
Seacore
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
Triglav
Trilobite
VasudeVa
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
Wraith
xvart

Everyone not on above list, in other words nearly everyone in game.

Players who are bloody

(makes no sense to investigate)
Benmage
SpyreX
Wickedestjr

Players with insanities

(do not commune anyone known to have more insanities than you)
Andrius (2)
Benmage (4)
El Goosuki (1)
hitogoroshi (1)
kunkstar7 (2)
Seacore (1)
SpyreX (2)
Triglav (1)
VP Baltar (2)
Wickedestjr (2)
Wraith (1)
xvart (1)

This list DOES NOT yet include insanities from planned grave robs.

I agree. I will be warding Iecerint.

[Furcolow]

I'm happy Furc is on the wagon prior to hammer, fills me with less dread.

X, Spyrex - Graverob Tom
Y, Spyrex - Greverob El Goosuki

Who should X, Y be? Shouldn't be Benmage, because of the longbow potential that the two of them are scum. I'd be happy for Hito and VP.

Thoughts?

that graverob plan looks awful
i have changed my mind
i will be robbing both graves
noone else need rob
in case xvart is an idiot and kills me
i will double mortician the shit out of those corpses

[Furcolow]

where did i say i could do all 3
i changed my mind obviously

[Furcolow]

L-2.

We need to get a couple of things straight before hammahtime. Have to pick graverobbers, and I need to update the reference. I'm a bit strapped for time, so I'd appreciate the danger/no danger lists from someone.

Also, Furc, curious as to your thoughts on this:

If you think Xvart is cult and not murderer, we could have you bet your life on it. I'd rather avoid investigators murdering investigators, but if you honestly think he's cult we could do that.

i feel like if he's an investigator he shouldn't carry through with it, and if he's mafia he can't because he will be busy performing cultic rituals. I feel sacrificing a confirmed townie for another confirmed townie (if he was even successful in killing me) isn't that advantageous to the town.

Right, I completely agree, it's not worth it if he's town. What I'm saying is,

if you think he's cult

, we could dare him to go through with it. If he fails to murder you, we lynch him. Obviously it sucks if he's investigator. I'm just bringing this up because if you think xvart is cult we could put it to the test right here and now. (We would want to you rez in that case, so the murder would be guaranteed to work if xvart really sent it in.) It's your call, just want to make sure you're aware of the option.

I Thought you were good, Hitogoroshi

How the fuck can you take someones life for WIFOM?
Cult, you would know he's town and CAN do it
Cult, if he's cult he could still claim that someone rezzed ... or one of your cult could rez ME. when that person or you or xvart flipped cult it could even implicate me to idiots
town, if he's cult, this is the only good scenario
town, and he's town, ok we just lost a townie

what's the percentage of sucking on that? what is the percentage of you being town and him being cult? because you know i'm town. you'd also have to eliminate any opportunity that included ME being cult, so take out a fourth of those options... and since we've lost 4 investigators, it is more likely people are cult now... sup

[Furcolow]

GRAVEROB PLAN:

FURPANTS: FURCOLOW, WAGONEE #2
EL GOOSUKI: FURCOLOW, WAGONEE #3

[Furcolow]

My thoughts on xvart - At the time that xvart chose to stalk, we thought we'd caught 1, maybe more, scum. Furc jeopardised the town with his actions and has added nothing positive all game. In the assumption that xvart is an investigator, I don't view him as murderous or anti town for his actions. He's admitted that he won't follow through because we're bleeding numbers at the moment. It has been mentioned previously that anti-town characters need to be taken care of and that we can't waste lynches on them. It should be noted that xvart also just finished playing A Clash of Kings mafia, and town lost by leaving village idiots alive too long. His claimed stalk is fine by me, unfortunately we can't afford for him to go through with it.

My thoughts on Spyrex - The lack of resus claimer is concerning, but it's not unreasonable to think that Tom rezzed him, especially considering how Tom died. The mod has expained that all resuscitators get a message to say Success or Fail. The rule that everybody keeps quoting probably meant to say that you won't know why it failed.

My thoughts on El G, the best lynch

My thoughts on Wraith - dude, did you read their claimed N1 action, it's pretty obvious what they would have claimed their N0 action as.

this is a really polarizing flip
I am fairly sure El G is more likely scum than xvart, so I am going to pursue it in comparison to preserving my life.
I wanted to get to play with Iecerint and Plum more, but if Xvart wants to be an idiot and kill fellow town members that is his own option. It would be a really greedy play to kill a confirmed town who got himself confirmed by seeing misclarifications in the ruleset as opposed to someone breaking one of the Ten Commandments (kind of kidding) .

EBWOP: Sure, seacore, vote on it. Vote on whether or not to have me as a town protect our corpses from giving cult extra-power.

If the town is going to vote on this, though, it will not be a simple yes/no.
The town gets to vote ON MY ACTION. Would you rather me keep warding? Would you rather me use my rez kit? Would you rather me graverob? If more than 75% of the town do not respond to this I am going to do what I want to, which is rob two graves. If this is not voted on in the manner in which I want, with bolded votes, and in the following format:

VOTE: <action>

or VOTE: VOTE: <action> I will do what I want to do as everyone else has.

You claim I do not know this setup, but my actions have been:
N0: Ward
N1: Search: Rez Kit
N2: Ward on someone who hasn't heard noise

I consider that very good knowledge of the setup
I am actually going to side with Iecerint and say that Xvart needs to go. I was given way too short of a leash by the town after failing stalks in SA2, and I don't want to see that happen again.

I'm pretty sure I know the setup better than YOU, seacore.


ALSO IT'S ONLY YOU that doesnt want me

[Furcolow]

wait, that is incorrect

ACTUALLY

triglav doesn't want me graverobbing either
and wraith doesnt want to consider i will actually do it




-
whatever
follow my plan in my post on voting for my action
my actions, however, have been superfluous

[Furcolow]

that doesnt mean i know plum is pro-town this game, just that i enjoy it when she is

[Furcolow]

I Thought you were good, Hitogoroshi

How the fuck can you take someones life for WIFOM?
Cult, you would know he's town and CAN do it
Cult, if he's cult he could still claim that someone rezzed ... or one of your cult could rez ME. when that person or you or xvart flipped cult it could even implicate me to idiots
town, if he's cult, this is the only good scenario
town, and he's town, ok we just lost a townie

what's the percentage of sucking on that? what is the percentage of you being town and him being cult? because you know i'm town. you'd also have to eliminate any opportunity that included ME being cult, so take out a fourth of those options... and since we've lost 4 investigators, it is more likely people are cult now... sup

You have a rez kit, you can make yourself un-rezzable tonight to stop cult shenanigans. I think there's a good chance xvart is cult and was curious to see if you agreed. If you're going to be pursuing an xvart-cult case tomorrow, it'd be better to force the issue tonight because we get free cult if we're right and, while you die if we're wrong, it also means we spend the day doing something besides mislynching xvart. So the deal is overwhelmingly in your favor IF xvart is your top cult suspect, because you're either right (in which case there's no risk in forcing him to follow through with the murder, and tomorrow is a nice short cult lynch) or you're wrong (in which case we don't waste a day on a mislynch of xvart). It's a bad deal IF you think there's a good chance xvart ISN'T cult, and intend to pursue other suspects. Savvy?

No, not savvy, because town on town stalks put the wine in cult's hands.
If xvart and i are both town, they can choose whether or not they want to rez me to make 2 kills for the price of one potentially. if they have you claim a rez on me, for instance, and i don't rez, when you flip cult it would implicate me wrongly. not to mention that xvart would have been lynched following your logic. that would be delayed, as in it wouldn't occur immediately, and it probably wouldn't play out that way at all (cult would probably outnumber town before hito is lynched/stalk-killed if he is cult). If you are cult, though, I doubt they would risk you. They would risk someone like NPAU/Feysal.

Another scenario is if we are both town and you are town and are being heartfelt, which I doubt. If this is the case, why not lynch xvart now? Worst case scenario we are taking a life to save a life which is going to be what he is going to do anyways.

Worst cases: Xvart kills me, we lose a confirmed town
We lynch Xvart, he can't confirm himself, but we save a confirmed town (assuming he's town)
Xvart + Cult kill me, cult rez once, implicate xvart is cult and get both confirmed town lynch/killed

Xvart's stalk can go horribly wrong

Best case scenario:
Xvart is copying benmage, and is cult, and is trying to be "confirmed"*

in which case we need to lynch him

unvote;
vote: xvart

[Furcolow]

what i mean to say is by letting him carry out his kill, the only good chance we have is if he is cult, so why not lynch him and find out faster? i'll rob his grave and furpants_tom's ezpz

I am also feeling DGB is picking up her activity, which is more reason not to lynch her.

ASKED ABOUT XVART? BEN?
Him not answering only implicates Xvart more
would you be ok lynching xvart?
Even if he's town, you would be saving a townie with no insanities
A townie with no insanities > a townie with at least 1 insanity (from stalk), though I believe he has 2... was he passed a fetish?


Those are not the only relevant scenarios

[Furcolow]

We lynch Xvart, he can't confirm himself, but we save a confirmed town (assuming he's town)
That is relevant, because it is actually WORSE than "Xvart kills me, we lose a confirmed town" because I have less insanities and a rez kit

LYNCH XVART

[Furcolow]

lynching xvart is better than letting him kill me even if he is town is what i mean to say, because his night actions have been terrible

[Furcolow]

and ludicrous... ridiculous

[Furcolow]

his n1 and n2 actions are pure jokes