Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[Faranor]

/confirm.
I haven't read the thread and probably won't until tomorrow. Expect a wonderful post from the nor head then.

[Faranor]

Bvnotamod is probably town, I'm assuming they're not going to act like an idiot the whole game, but town nonetheless. I found the mod thing funny, as is their new avatar.

Yes to claiming hydra heads. Guess who we are? Derp. I find the advantages of knowing who's posting what to outweigh an potential negatives. Meta's useful to me so yeah.

vote icecream

I think Bowser's probably town actualy, it doesn't look like bussing to me.

[Faranor]

Why are you objecting to me not mentioning everyone? That's stupid.

[Faranor]

Ebwop: What do you mean by 'It's clearly not enough', I know what the words mean individually.

[Faranor]

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)

We are Fara- and -Nor. Obviously we are the only uncreative pair in the bunch.

2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?

I prefer Lynch all Policy Lynchers.

3. Do you think meta will help in this game?

Meta's helpful in any game. The answer to this depends on whether or not other people claim their names.

4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?

Mr. Smith for calling Bowser scummy for having two random opinions (the FoS and vote, which I suspect were from different heads, making it null).

5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.

I'll be posting once per day, hopefully. I live in MST.

6. Your favorite role?

Let's go with Vigilante.

Why do you want to give a VI an excuse to play like a VI?

Why do you want to give scum a reason to lynch VIs? There's a reason for why they're called VIs. It is because they act like VIs.

"my other idiotic head" is an excuse I'm never going to accept. He's simply avoiding responsibility. If myko does anything scummy, WE are responsible, not just myko.

So fakenameclaiming is scummy because it is scummy.
You're trying to make null-tells into scum-tells.

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Smith.

I think I see why Fara~ voted for IceCream, but this vote is better.
Furry is town.
CC is probably town.

My eyes feel like doughnuts.
-~Nor

[Faranor]

1. You cannot be sure that the vote and the FoS were from different heads. Even if they are, they are still the same player and should pay attention to what each other are saying.
2. bv311 is acting like a VI but that doesn't make him scum. Like I've already said, PP or Bowser are by far the best lynches for today.
3. Ask yourself this: How does fakenameclaiming help the town, in any way? Now ask yourself this: Also, you completely ignored what was being said in that last quote - they are still the same player, regardless of their individual personalities.

1. Yes, and either way I don't see the scum motivation in doing that.
3. How does fakenameclaiming help the scum, in any way? I thought the point you were trying to make is that they should take responsibility for each others' scummy actions, and that they're scummy for not doing that. However, what I'm wondering is how fakenameclaiming is scummy at all, and why pacman refusing to take responsibility for the idiocy of his partner is scummy.

VI's have the same exact chance of being scum, are there any notable VI's that you think we should all look out for in this game?

CSL is pretty easy to read, if you know who he is. Otherwise, he's lynchbait.

-~Nor

[Faranor]

I think it's Elli due to typing style, particularly 192/194. Brb.

[Faranor]

I also think PP's "town-tells" in posts 172/173 are scummy. I see no reason town would go and call three people town like that, except in a sort of find-scum-by-elimination-thing.

VOTE: Professor Paradox

SO there's no reason but an actual very valid reason, which makes it vote worthy. Herp a derp a fucking derp wat.

[Faranor]

Hi, the inactive head (from now on and until I'm outed "Apple") is back. Stupid notification system, and stupid me.

Also why have you avoided doing either?

The game hadn't started yet.

I prefer Lynch all Policy Lynchers.

So why don't you vote yourself? Or realize the contradiction and retreat the statement?

Second it doesn't make sense for you as an individual not to scum hunt because you've posted multiple times in first person (I).

We had agreed that we'd post in singular, ignoring that we're a hydra. But since Narsis has dropped this posting style, I'll do the same.

The last line of one of you're earlier posts where you said you had no reads or something, I'll go find it.

One head might've had no reads while the other had. Also, reads change over time. This post is telling a valid statement a contradiction. —Apple

UNVOTE VOTE PINEAPPLE

[Faranor]

Logically Town players who were strongly for outing of heads should see PP’s actions as equally Anti-Town / Scummy.

Those players who have expressed that Mass Name Claiming is the way to go and those not doing so are Anti-Town / Scummy -

If you turn out to not be a newb, I find this statement scummy.
Yes, I think that not revealing your name is anti-town. That doesn't mean that I think it's scummy.
On that note, I can actually see where Smithy is coming from now, although I still don't agree that it's scummy.

UNVOTE VOTE PINEAPPLE

care to explain?

No, we will not explain. Instead, how about you guess why Fara~ voted for you.

-~Norepinephrine

[Faranor]

The fact of the matter is the fake-claim further derailed the thread from significant scum-hunting (and we already had a rocky start with the whole Name Your Heads debate that dominated the early pages). That’s very Anti-Town at best. And yet because Elli’s regularly plays in Anti-Town manner it is waved away. Had any of a number of other players in the game with a different playstyle (for example analytical) made the same move I guarantee the reaction would be much different. And that burns my ass. Because very Anti-Town move (with no positive Town upside) is bad regardless of who makes it.

You seem upset.
Why haven't you responded to this?

Fara~ and I are going to get our shit together in our QT, after which we will begin to bring the pain. Stay tuned.

-~Norlax

[Faranor]

I'm v/la untill tuesday.

[Faranor]

Nothing in this posts asks me any sort of question. I’m not going to ask you to define why it is scummy when I find the point you are making of minor importance, IMO.

So did you just say that you would look more closely at that stuff because you like typing? I ask because you're not following up on your promised follow-up.

Stupid Fara~ head being V/LA.

-~Nor.

[Faranor]

Also I conveniently forgot to mention that I got both the 310th and 311th posts in order to claim the 311th post for myself.

[Faranor]

@Faranor, do you still think that bv311 is likely to be town?

Gut says he's town. I don't like his refusal to post anything worth while, or the lurking or pretty much anything but I think the whole fucking around early with the name and avatar are a reasonably strong town tell.

I think Pineapple's scum, Bowser's not an unacceptable wagon but I prefer Pineapple.

Troll what do the numbers next to the players names in your vote count refer to?

[Faranor]

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.
@bv310: Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

This has yet to be answered. I am disappoint.

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

i am also willing to hammer bv311 if needed, but only after a claim.

So your partner never mentioned any scum reads in the quicktopic, at all is what you're telling me.

[Faranor]

HEY IT'S OKAY I GET THE JOKE. I don't think I need 3 guesses, but I'll use them anyway.

Vezokpiraka? Furcolow? Mina? has to be one of those.

In cool news

Vote Pineapple

[Faranor]

Looking at the wagon from yesterday, I'll say that Masterspy and 1-2 of {IceCream, Pineapple} are scum on the bv wagon, and that 0-1 of {PP} was scum off the wagon.
Faraday seems to be of the opinion that Pineapple is obvscum though, and I think that Pineapple is scummy too (not as scummy as MS, buttttt), so I like our vote.

@Tom: We got our shit together when Faraday came back from V/LA. I thought it was going to be amazing but since we're both gut players who rarely back up their suspicions with anything concrete it's really hard to get a discussion going. Basically we now know where the other stands on every player.

[Faranor]

HEY IT'S OKAY I GET THE JOKE. I don't think I need 3 guesses, but I'll use them anyway.

Vezokpiraka? Furcolow? Mina? has to be one of those.

In cool news

Vote Pineapple

can i ask for some reasoning behind the vote?

It kinda looks like you just did ask, doesn't it. You're scum. HOW'S THAT FOR REASONING?

[Faranor]

In order of least relevant to most relevant:

Faranor: The first two don't seem likely at all given the tone of the posts, but the third sounds about right.

is this about my guesses @whitehead? it's obviously Mina as she's V/la this week.

[Faranor]

HEY IT'S OKAY I GET THE JOKE. I don't think I need 3 guesses, but I'll use them anyway.

Vezokpiraka? Furcolow? Mina? has to be one of those.

In cool news

Vote Pineapple

can i ask for some reasoning behind the vote?

It kinda looks like you just did ask, doesn't it. You're scum. HOW'S THAT FOR REASONING?

VOTE: Faranor

why?

YOU'RE SCUM!!!!1!11!!!!!1

(and in case you people missed it i'm making a point)

ok now on to something more substantial...

cool story, thanks for explaining what you were trying to do, I'd not have got it if not.

Looking at the wagon from yesterday, I'll say that Masterspy and 1-2 of {IceCream, Pineapple} are scum on the bv wagon, and that 0-1 of {PP} was scum off the wagon.
Faraday seems to be of the opinion that Pineapple is obvscum though, and I think that Pineapple is scummy too (not as scummy as MS, buttttt), so I like our vote.

@Tom: We got our shit together when Faraday came back from V/LA. I thought it was going to be amazing but since we're both gut players who rarely back up their suspicions with anything concrete it's really hard to get a discussion going. Basically we now know where the other stands on every player.

you say that Masterspy has a 100% chance of being scum, but me and IceCream a 50% chance each. so why is your vote on me and not MS who you appear to suspect more?

(actually rereading this over i think i can see why, but the questions still stands)
[/quote]
I don't think masterspy is scum. That's why.

@Magna no clue personally, Nik'll get back to you in his next post I suspect.

[Faranor]

this is BAM ruleset? prods on request?

MOD: PROD BOWSER

[Faranor]

@Fara – in 310 you made a pointed comment regarding me ‘not following up’ on promised content. I asked you to clarify what via quotation what I was not following up on. You never responded. Again I’d like to know the reason for your comment.

Too many games and a lot less time have left me skimming. The bottom of this post has you promising to take a closer look at that.

I can’t believe you actually posted this Nik.

I can't outWIFOM a group of people. Yes, the kill could mean everything, but it could also mean nothing. The scum might have found what they thought was a softclaim, or they might have killed him because he was pro-town. I'm basing those reads on wagon position and prior suspicions only.

you say that Masterspy has a 100% chance of being scum, but me and IceCream a 50% chance each. so why is your vote on me and not MS who you appear to suspect more?

I suspect MS the most, but Faraday doesn't seem to share my view. Leaving aside the fact that Faraday would change an MS vote to a Pineapple vote if I tried, we both agree that you're probably scum.
Way to justify your vote on me with both scummy reasoning and a disclaimer.

[Faranor]

I guess I should start by weighing in on the #1 lynch candidate for today. I'll do so with an ISO

third, @ CC: why the start of the bv311 bandwagon? i agree with it in the sense that i dont like his play so far this game either, and i'm not against lynching him, but to me it seemed to come almost out of the blue and/or in response to Zorblag putting him on his shortlist.

fourth, @ FourTigers: you expressed a desire to lynch bv311 earlier, and have again mentioned that you will vote him closer to deadline. so what is preventing you from voting him/joining the bandwagon now?

So right here he's saying that he finds bv311 not exactly worth lynching, but is edging towards the wagon. I find this to be wishy-washy and scummy. Pineapple hadn't mentioned bv311 previous to this post (other than mentioning in the RQS stage that he would lynch him for "a confusing avatar"), so it seems like he senses that a wagon is forming and wants to look proactive by edging towards it and looking supportive without really putting himself on the line Also he is questioning CC and FourTigers on their willingness to lynch and he further asks FourTigers why he isn't voting yet if he's willing to vote for him later in the game. This is somewhat fair, although kind of hypocritical because he's doing basically what he's accusing FourTigers of doing.

i am also willing to hammer bv311 if needed, but only after a claim.

This is Pineapple's next post. I would ask the same thing you asked FourTigers in your previous post. Edges yet closer to the wagon without providing any reasoning for getting on it other than a comment that he "didn't like bv311's play".

also interesting to note that this post looks like you planning on running me up to a lynch tomorrow regardless of what i do. good ol' damned if i do; damned if i dont.

also i never said that i'd vote him but i'm not going to. i said i'd vote him but wanted a claim from him first.

and he just claimed. VT.

good ol' damned if i do; damned if i dont in your eyes. if i hammer him here and he flips VT, then you are all over me for being an obvscum hammer. if i hammer here and he flips scum, then you are all over me for bussing my partner that is an inevitable lynch. if i dont hammer and someone else does and he flips scum, i look like i was trying to avoid hammering my partner. if i dont hammer and someone else does and he flips town, i look like i was scum trying to avoid a townie lynch.

but anyway a VT claim isn't reason enough to not hammer him. he hasn't been contributing and has been actively lurking.

Unvote

VOTE: bv311

I don't get why you aren't really attempting to defend yourself so much as you're attacking one player's reasons for wanting to vote you and then weakly coming up with a reason to vote for bv311. You aren't really providing reasons why you want to lynch so much as saying "well if I don't lynch him you'll think I'm scum, so I guess I'll vote him!". You're putting the blame for your vote on others for when bv311 flipped town. This looks like scummy reasoning to me, although the whole "I was pressured into voting!" approach isn't something I've seen before.

first, what's so wrong with not mentioning Bowser very much in my posts? he hasn't posted much of anything this game, and just cause you think he's one of the top suspects doesn't mean i do. at worst he was active lurking like bv311, but i also find it quite likely that RL has been a problem for them which would explain their lack of posting.

Thanks for the support. I agree that we haven't done anything all that scummy other than lurking. And yes thank you, RL has been a problem. Realizing that we're not scum doesn't make you town, though. Looks more like you're a scum player trying to get a member of the town on your side.

HEY IT'S OKAY I GET THE JOKE. I don't think I need 3 guesses, but I'll use them anyway.

Vezokpiraka? Furcolow? Mina? has to be one of those.

In cool news

Vote Pineapple

can i ask for some reasoning behind the vote?

It kinda looks like you just did ask, doesn't it. You're scum. HOW'S THAT FOR REASONING?

VOTE: Faranor

why?

YOU'RE SCUM!!!!1!11!!!!!1

(and in case you people missed it i'm making a point)

ok now on to something more substantial...

So...you OMGUS someone to make a point...but then don't explain it further and leave your vote there. Is your point that he deserves a vote because he voted for you with no reason? Funny...that's...what you're doing....

You went out of your way not to comment on it but were willing to hammer, why? It doesn't add up

maybe because i didnt go out of my way not to comment on it.

Being wishy washy, overindicating your vote before you put it on (which to my mind was a way to test the waters to make sure it wouldn't be perceived as scummy) and then jumping on what turned on to be a town wagon with little to no reasoning is a pretty scummy combo of actions.

Why do you care so much what other players think? If you think PP is scum

push

them! Make cases on them, ask them questions... You know, scum hunt. I didn't see any of that from you yesterday and that's a big part of the reason why our vote is on you today.

What do you think of PP today? Who's scum?

~Sotty

the more i think about PP and my growing dislike of Mr. Smith, the more i'm realizing that my dislike comes from a VIish read on them. scum have a reason to act like a VI so my brain kinda slotted them in there. except by definition a VI is a town player that acts against his/her wincon.

in other words: i still dont like their play, but I find them less likely to be scum then before.

More wishy-washyness and weasel words. Pineapple's unwillingness to commit to a wagon and vote for a decent reason is scummy. It doesn't look to me like Pineapple is scumhunting, more like drifting along and playing in a reactionary way.

_________________________________________________________________

After the ISO, I'm happy with a Pineapple lynch today, but I will have to confer with my hydra partner to see where he wants our vote to go.

<3,
Untrod

where the fuck of you been all game (at least this is content I guess)

yeah pineapple's scum and al but idk if you just decided b/c of the votecount and then made a case or what.

NIK I'M NOT A PRICK I'D NOT CHANGE A VOTE JUST LIKE THAT </3

Also I've 3rd world internet atm so my access over the weekend is going to be um, spotty at best. technician's coming tomorrow I think to hopefully fix it but @ mod v/la for the weekend anyways.

[Faranor]

@Faranor, hydra heads don't have to come to perfect agreement on suspicions, that's one of the advantages of working with a partner. You're apparently claiming that one of your heads is sure that MasterSpy is scum and the other thinks that he's town. That's a perfect issue to work out behind the scenes. Right now it looks like you're making sure you can fall down on whichever side of the issue will help you down the line because you've certainly got both sides publicly covered. I don't care for that at all.

I barely know why I think MS is scum. If you think about the way both Faraday and I play, you'll understand how our QT looks right now.

[Faranor]

We think that Crab Canon is town, but I think that Ice's vote on CC is townish. QUICK FARADAY, TO THE QTMOBILE

[Faranor]

^ OKAY ROBIN.

Bower's prob not scum with Pineapple, so town.

@Spy where have you seen Elli lurk as scum?

[Faranor]

@Pineapple, I'm not sure which of you just replaced into the game but we've gone well beyond whatever limits commenting shortly might entail. With the unvote for Faranor I guess we're supposed to think that your top suspects were IceCream and MasterSpy. It'd be much better if I weren't trying to guess that but, instead, actually knew what you were thinking suspect-wise because you had a vote down. Let's change that, shall we?

actually my biggest suspect is Faranor. i unvoted to give my partners replacement a chance to catch up and share his thoughts in the QT before we actually put a vote down, except he has replaced out...and his replacement is replacing out(to the best of my knowledge).

VOTE: Faranor

You voted originally to prove a point and unvoted because it had been proved i'm p sure though and now top suspect? since when.

i've been really busy, sorry for pretty much doing nothing, I've got reports and shit and it's eating at my life. Will try and get something of substance up later!

[Faranor]

-Why do you think Bv pretending to be the mod made him more likely to be town? He might have even chosen the name before getting his role PM.
-Why did you vote for IC?

I just think it's the type of thing town would be more likely to do, as scum I'd certainly be hesitant to pick something like that, and basically semi trolling the game and fucking around as they did with the second avatar changed. I suppose it's possible they chose the name before PM, but they could always change it.
Didn't like they're posting up to that point. Thought the attack on bowser was a load of crap and looked scummy, basically picking on things that made him a weak player, calling him anti town and then going on to vote because of that.

No, seriously. Give a reason. Don't tell me neither of you know why. Nikanor. Write three sentences or more explaining why you think MasterSpy is scum. Write three sentences or more why you think Pineapple is scum.

Yeah Nikanor you lazy bastard.

And Faraday. Three sentences or more explaining why

you

thought MasterSpy is town. Three sentences or more explaining why you personally (as opposed to Nikanor) think Pineapple is scum. Come on, I know you can write a wall post if you really set your mind to it.

I'm pretty sure I've confused MasterSpy and Mr Smith in my head a few times having seen you ask these questions actually, as that's who I'd thought we'd been talking about but yeah. I think Smith's town and your hydra's not scummy to me I don't find vc analysis particularly convincing though that Nik did, or see why Nik thinks you guys are scum. Magna's played reasonable so far and his avenues of enquiry don't strike me as particularly scummy, although I find him reasonably hard to read I've seen nothing here that's set off alarm bells.

Pineapple is scum because he's scum. As in non town. As in mafia. Well technically that's 3 sentences APPLE'S FIRST POST was scummy. Also that whole partner didn't mention any scum reads seems like a gigantic pile of unlikely (lie). Also their stuff lately like voting to make a point, but then it's serous. Then yeah we should lynch him.

I don't know like that's 3 sentences but it just kind of feels inadequate when said like that. And while I appreciate your enthusiasm for my abillity to write wall o texts this took fucking ages.

I get gut reads, and I get finding it a waste of time to post all your reasoning in the thread. But if you're so bad at introspection that when you're asked pointblank to justify your opinions, you can't come up with a single instance of scummy behaviour from your top suspect, or even a single quote that you don't like, then you aren't playing Mafia, just guessing random names, and your "reads" are probably either cognitive biases or contrived and phony. Make an effort to understand your own thought processes.

I feel SCOLDED. Reform is coming.

Seriously, I don't get it. How do people have

no idea whatsoever

why they think whatever it is they think? Are you

sure

this isn't a vezokpiraka/Furcolow hydra?

:/ below the belt a little.

[Faranor]

Nik here. Just a quick post, because it's all that I have time for after all of my wonderful birthday celebrations this weekend. This is actually the first time I've been sober since Friday afternoon. >_>

Moving on,

MasterSpy is scummy because his scumhunting looks fake. Statements like, "Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell," come from scum talking to town. That kind of statement does not come from town who thinks that the person he is talking to is scummy.

Pineapple is scummy because his posts don't have the motivation of someone trying to lynch scum. I agree with Faraday's point about his vote on us.

[Faranor]

Bullshit. Sorry Nik, but it is. You tried to cobble some sort of vague Wiki-tells to cover the fact that your reads were completely gut based. And I called you on it. Had you just said ‘I think Z, X and Y’ are scum it would have worked much better into the meta for you that the White Spy is trying to beat me to death with in our QT. But you didn’t. Does it make you scum? Not necessarily, but it does make me question your motives.

Mina asked me for some sort of concrete reason for thinking that you and Pineapple are scum, other than gut. I gave it to her. I'm not naive enough to think that gut is some magical force that leads me to the scum. I know that it does have some basis, and that post was me trying to figure out exactly where my reads are coming from.
What I meant to say is that your words aren't matching up to what you're supposed to be thinking. You say that my post makes you question my motives, as if you weren't doing that already. You're saying, "Well this here post could very well be scummy!" which is scummy.
Mina, on the other hand, I'm getting a town read on. The way she calls us town for saying that our QT is dead is something that I think she'd do as town. I can't wait to see more.
In other news, we have less than two days left before our deadline. It would be great if the people voting for IceCream could go back to Pineapple so that we can get a claim today.

[Faranor]

And yeah, I did count wrong. Should we get claims out today or wait 'till tomorrow? Personally, I'd much prefer not giving scum a 100% chance to hit a PR, but that's just me.

if we massclaim no lynching is pointless, so we should no lynch without massclaim.

[Faranor]

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

vote no lynch

[Faranor]

Either Mr.Smith or Bowser has to be scum. How can they both get roleblocked at the same night?
I find it suspicious that Mr.Smith didn't comment on Bowser despite the fact that if he was town, he would be almost confirmed that Bowser is scum.

~Ice.

Where you getting this from?

V/la till Monday for this head.

popcorn massclaim works. Bowser needs to claim their results.

[Faranor]

vanilla.

only mr smith left i think.

[Faranor]

hey pp why didn't you watch the claimed tracker night 2?

[Faranor]

still want elli to answer my questions. watcher and tracker being on the same side is p unlikely, as an information role like tracker and watcher work p well together in theory, which is once again why i'm confused by their night choices, it looks like those of a scum watcher (cmon tom and jerry were never ever gonna be nightkilled if their town)

[Faranor]

Hey, Nik here. This is the only game I'm in now, so hopefully things will go more smoothly than they have been lately.

I agree with Faraday that the PP claim is scummy. Watching T&J on night two makes no sense. And since I'm already being voted by someone who I think is town,

Vote: Professor Paradox.

Parama, you should unvote me and vote for PP.

[Faranor]

I don't buy Maclock not checking the thread. Elli, maybe but both of you? nah.

[Faranor]

what date is thanksgiving?

[Faranor]

why didn't you check the thread on night 2 PP?