Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Wraith]

Hello. I'll start by saying I've read up to about page 46. I'll follow up with my N0 actions, in case rewq never claimed them.

Rewq warded RC, and heard noise last night. *crosses fingers that I won't get killed so fast*

Large post forthcoming.

[Wraith]

First of all, I want to weigh in on some of the most prominent issues of the game so far. I'll bold important points/questions that need confirmation.

1.

Furc is a screaming, flailtastic idiot, but a town idiot.

His scum meta:
-Lurks until attacked, then OMGUSes and insults his attacker

Town meta:
-Attacks someone for stupid reasons, gets called out by someone else, OMGUSes attacker, attacks everyone who has ever associated favorably with that attacker

The latter is what he is doing now. So, he's town. HOWEVER, ANYTHING he says must be taken with a grain of salt, considering how unstable his opinions are and how crappy his logic usually is. To be brutally honest, I very much believe he has to die before LyLo, especially considering how he was half the reason for the town loss in SAII.

2.

Benmage vs. Fate. At the moment I believe both are town, especially Fate. Now, AFAIK the plan with them is for Benmage to kill Fate, and someone to rez Fate.

I want to know why the town is even considering letting someone kill a townie. It's an insane plan and whoever brought it up should be lynched. Sure, it'll confirm someone as not-a-cultist, but we have a lot more cons to it than pros.

Pros

-Benmage is confirmed to not be a cultist

Cons

-Fate is put extremely at risk of death
-Benmage is given an extra insanity
-A rez kit is wasted on stupidity
-Scum have a free chance to kill a townie

The point is, there are 28 (soon to be 27) people in this game. You can't rely on this plan working perfectly with that many people in the game -

someone

(probably the cult) will interfere. For example, you'll have to rely on the following happening perfectly - nopoint actually using his rez kit on Fate; nopoint actually having a rez kit at all; the cult not using the opportunity to kill Fate; Benmage actually killing Fate; someone else not having stalked Fate N0 and murdering him. Next, this plan leaves the door wide open for Benmage to go murderer. Tomorrow you might say "oh he's confirmed town" and four days from then you'll lynch him and find out he went murderer. You're basically advocating anti-town behavior. There's also the fact that Benmage FREAKING VOWED TO KILL FATE BECAUSE OF A PERSONAL VENDETTA. It doesn't matter whether or not Benmage is scum, anyone who puts a personal meta vendetta over winning the game with their teammates is FREAKING ANTI-TOWN and should not be allowed to continue that behavior. To conclude, Fate has been considerably more active and has contributed a lot more than Benmage, the latter whom AFAIK has done absolutely nothing besides attack Fate for the aforementioned vendetta and advocate his plan to murder Fate.

So please, STOP BEING IDIOTS. I am more than willing to lynch Benmage right now, for being anti-town, if it comes to that. But let's move on.

If this issue has already been resolved in a different way, disregard the above passage.

3. Fate is currently my top townread. I'm going to give MoI the benefit of the doubt for now (his scum meta is difficult to differentiate from his town behavior), but I have to say, if he isn't dead by the cult's or a murderer's hands by Day 3 I'll start getting suspicious. Most others here I'm fairly neutral on.

4. My scumreads are El Goosuki and Bowser. Both have lurked and contributed very, very little. Bowser's posts mostly just rub me the wrong way. El Goosuki switched his position on several people mid-day, especially Fate (twice). His votes have been for little to no reason at all.

5. My opinion on the Reaper wagon is split. While he hasn't done anything I would personally classify as a major slip (as far as I've noticed so far), I do find his sudden change in behavior once the wagon on him got going to be fairly suspicious.

For now

Vote: El Goosuki

[Wraith]

Oh, and to elaborate on point 5: At this point, I'm willing to jump on the RC wagon should deadline come closer, but for now I'm not quite convinced. Let me finish my reading first.

[Wraith]

@no-point: I've been reading since I decided to put in as a replacement yesterday. Since I had a free night yesterday that means about 3 hours got put in. Honestly didn't expect to get in this quickly.

Also: hence, why the Benmage kills Fate->Fate is rez'd->Profit plan is retarded.

[Wraith]

My day today is packed and probably won't be able to get back on again until late evening or night. On Benmage/Fate: Honestly, I want to lynch Benmage today, because I'm like 90% sure he'll murder Fate tonight anyways. I'll ISO RC when I get home and see if it's enough for my vote. Probably will be.

[Wraith]

Okay, I can on board with an RC lynch.

Vote: ReaperCharlie

HOWEVER, if he does flip town, we really need to take a look at xvart and AV( I think it was AV).

RC, why, exactly do you think Seacore is scum?

[Wraith]

@Benmage: So, why are you entering tomorrow as confirmed town? Because you're murdering Fate?

[Wraith]

Wraith, yes.

Unvote Vote: Benmage

The "plan" is stupid and you're anti-town. Let's nip a murderer in the bud.

[Wraith]

Wraith, yes.

Unvote Vote: Benmage

The "plan" is stupid and you're anti-town. Let's nip a murderer in the bud.

You've skimmed this game, and you haven't read anything I've said.

Skimmed some parts, yes, but I did read the whole back-and-forth between you and Benmage. You attempted to lynch him because of meta, and that meta was you lying about a cop result in an attempt to lynch Fate, who was actually town, and that your wanting to kill him is based entirely upon your (wrong) point of view during one game, and you can't get over a personal vendetta so you're just going to spite a probable townie. Therefore, you are spiting the town.

[Wraith]

While I don't agree with all of your logic (I'm not quite convinced this is all a giant gambit by scumBenmage) I do agree on many parts of it, notably the crappiness of Benmage's "case" against you, his implacable urge to murder you, and his general bad play so far. Which is exactly why I'm keeping my vote on him.

[Wraith]

The flaw with that plan is that it has me-Fate-dead, because it won't fail (due to cult Greater Ritual)

And without me, I do not trust the town to overcome their "but his Fate-stalk claim was so reckless and crazy it had to be town!" inhibitions, while the cult continue to push that angle slowly and manipulate the town from the shadows.

This is my calling. I have to see this lynch through while I'm alive.

Surely you can sympathize with my point of view right now.

TLDR the case...so much AtE here.

*Yawn*...skimmed...entertaining tidbit Fate. I do appreciate it.

You know what will be the kicker..there will definitely be two kills tomorrow. Mine on fate and the cults...why would cult waste a nk?

Nice double deflection. I pose a few questions the town as whole:

1. Why, exactly, do think it is a good idea for Fate to die?
2. If, in a normal game, someone had claimed Vigilante Day 1 and decided to kill a townie who had done nothing scummy, would you let him do it?

And one to Benmage himself.

1. Can you name three things that Fate has done in this game that make him scum?

[Wraith]

1. Why, exactly, do think it is a good idea for Fate to die?
2. If, in a normal game, someone had claimed Vigilante Day 1 and decided to kill a townie who had done nothing scummy, would you let him do it?

And one to Benmage himself.

1. Can you name three things that Fate has done in this game that make him scum?

1.Look at fates last case. Scummy as hell.
2. If it was a VI, hell yeah.

Special
1. Lied about his actions last night....or chose a ridiculously poor choice that is more likely a scum fakeclaim.
2. Poor reads.
3. Atrocious case on me.

Firstly, his case against is not "scummy as hell" or "atrocious." IMO it's overreacting because of rage, but it brings up several valid points that you have continued to deflect and even try to use against him.

Secondly, by this logic you should have stalked Furcolow N0. Hell, this statement alone would have gotten you lynched already if this town was half-sane. On your answers:

1. This is either a blatant misrep or an outright lie. Fate never lied about his N0 actions, only did not claim them until necessary, which is smart when you didn't ward people because it prevents the cult from knowing exactly what the town has at its disposal. IMO the only time someone should claim equipment outright is when it's a Rez Kit.
2. Sure, some of Fate's reads have been poor. But your ONLY read and contribution in this game is the tunneling and future murder of a townie. So don't be a hyprocrite.
3. See the first sentence of this post.

Now, I'm not the biggest fan of Fate's playstyle either, but I don't hold grudges from previous games that carry over to specifically spite a player I don't like against my own win condition.

@LB: The only way I can see my vote on Benmage as "horribad" is if it's a bad thing to lynch a town who refuses to play for the town. And the only way I would see that as a "bad thing" is if I was scum trying to udnermine the town. Are you scum trying to undermine the town?

@mod: At the start of the game, did all the other townies automatically get a special Insanity called "Batshit Crazy," which cases the town to kill each other in an insane attempt to be dislogical and lose the game?

I think I have to resort to Fate-posting style to get the town's attention.

ATTENTION TOWN, THERE IS A MURDERER STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LIVING ROOM, HOLDING A KNIFE AND ABOUT TO MURDER ONE OF YOUR OWN. HE IS ALSO THE SIZE OF AN ELEPHANT AND IS NOT HIDING BEHIND THE SOFA. HE IS STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM AND HAS CLEARLY STATED HE WANTS TO MURDER SOMEONE FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN SPITE. ARE YOU ALL BLIND?

[Wraith]

No. You aren't.

HOWEVER KILLING FATE IS RETARDED AND WE COVERED THIS TOO.

Benmage is going to do it anyways. That's why he needs to be lynched.

And Benmage, you're just making up reasons to kill Fate now. By your logic that means that the couple of times someone grabbed Occult Books in SAII were scum as well (oh wait they weren't). That also means that anyone who picks up ANY OTHER EQUIPMENT such as Rez Kits can be classified as "oh they're scum fakeclaiming."

[Wraith]

EBWOP: To elaborate on why getting Occult Books specifically is not a scum action - scum have absolutely no reason to know if other people are more insane than them. They just kill people, and are usually the most insane players to boot, aside from unrepentant murderers.

[Wraith]

Yes. I also think that stalking someone was the worst N0 action ever for a town player (at least someone who intends to play town). Does that mean I'm your next target to murder?

[Wraith]

Fate I think you're assuming way to much about cult messing with your death.

And you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you think I am cult, in which all your points about me waiting to kill you is null.

Or you stop this fucking dicking around, and maybe I won't kill you tonight, but will choose a different target to stalk/kill.

But lets hear it. Now.

Which Am I? Cult? Or Investigator? Go. This is your last chance.

To get attention:

THE BOLDED PART IS IMPORTANT. AS YOU CAN SEE, BENMAGE HAS NO INTENTION OF PLAYING FOR THE TOWN, AND INTENDS TO MURDER PEOPLE. HAPPY?

[Wraith]

Uh huh, and a would-be Murderer would announce that in thread, ensuring that we monitor his actions closely, for what reason exactly?

I'm still looking to lynch Cult, okay? I doubt even that Murderer is vaguely viable for Benmage now.

This is why. You are letting him get away with murder, and calling him town for it. That is why it is a viable path for him to go.

[Wraith]

Oh yeah, let's waste valuable space, time, and items so we can specifically monitor one single player to ensure he does not turn on us. The player in question is shown to have used horribad arguments and puts pursuing personal vendettas as a higher priority than winning with the town.

[Wraith]

Let me use a metaphor:

When you get cut, you don't let it get infected a little and then use a crapload of anti-biotics to control that infection. You put a fucking band-aid on it.

[Wraith]

Look, Benmage is going to do whatever he's going to do,

But town have to play a long term game, and has Tom has pointed out, we're better off in the long run if we kill somebody other than Benmage, in my opinion: Reaper.

Somebody will almost certainly use a rez kit on Fate. All it takes is one rez kit to cancel out Benmage's idiocy.

Then cult are in the difficult position of trying to out guess town. Did more than one person use a rez kit? Did three? Should they gamble on two or less people using it and kill ritual fate for the effect it'll have on the game? or do they just kill somebody else, in which case Fate is still alive.

Now I see why people think you're scum. First of all, there is no guarantee one of the few people with a rez kit are going to bother rezzing Fate. In fact, based on the cult's actions during SAII, I'm willing to bet that most of the cult has a Rez Kit. And no, we're not better off in the long run. Let me put it in math:

If we don't lynch Benmage, two people are definitely going to be killed tonight (whether they live or not is up to rezzers). Benmage will kill Fate, and the cult will kill a townie. That's two dead on night one MINIMUM, not including townies who lied and are going murderer.

Now, if we lynch Benmage, one person minimum dies tonight. For people who can't (or won't) read: 2-1=1. 1 is less than 2.

In short, the cult, however many they have, can only kill ONE townie a night. If we leave a murderer (Benmage) alive, then we lose TWO people tonight. To reiterate, ONE IS LESS THAN TWO.

THis town is TRYING to drive me insane, I swear.

@Benmage: The cult killing Benmage would not condemn you, in fact, as I've said, the town would "confirm" you if Fate dies. Funny how this is becoming circular logic. And no, I've said I don't think you're cult. I think you're anti-town and planning to murder a townie, and probably more townies in the future.

[Wraith]

(Preview Edit: If my cult buddies will rez kit me, why did they not WARD me N0 when you promised to stalk me in the sign-up thread?)

This is the most valid reason I've seen for Fate not being Cult.

xvart.

Then vote Benmage, dammit. If you think Fate is town then DON'T LET HIM GET MURDERED.

[Wraith]

If Benmage thinks Fate and I are "palz" he is hilariously mistaken. I'm just the only sane man left in this town.

Predit: I'm not lynching a townie, I'm lynching a murderer-to-be.

Triple Predit: Holy crap I can't get this post in.

[Wraith]

BENMAGE, FATE, STOP RESPONDING OR EVEN ADDRESSING EACH OTHER. YOU'RE JUST CLUTTERING UP THE THREAD WITH STUFF WE ALREADY KNOW - THAT YOU THINK EACH OTHER ARE CULT. STEP AWAY, TAKE A BREAK, COOL OFF, COME BACK IN AN HOUR OR SO, AND THEN ADDRESS THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WILL NEED TO READ THE 4 OR SO PAGES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN COMPILED TODAY.

[Wraith]

Thank God some sense is starting to permeate the town. I was afraid I'd have to get a power drill to bore into thick skulls.

[Wraith]

*facedesk*

/wrists

Hito, you have COMPLETELY missed the point of at least two pages worth of posts.

[Wraith]

OH MY GOD. POINT=MISSED. PERHAPS IT NEEDS TO BE PUT EVEN MORE SIMPLY:

TOWNIES WILL DIE TONIGHT. IF WE DO NOT LYNCH BENMAGE, WE WILL LOSE

TWO

TOWNIES, MINIMUM. IF WE LYNCH, BENMAGE WE WILL LOSE

ONE

TOWNIE, MINIMUM.

TWO MINUS ONE IS ONE

ONE IS LESS THAN TWO

ONE IS LESS THAN TWO

ONE IS LESS THAN TWO

ONE IS LESS THAN TWO

ONE IS LESS THAN TWO

OH MY GOD FURCOLOW STOP SPAMMING POSTS. SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY IN ONE. GODDAMN. POST.

Seacore, for the love of God, listen to reason. You're like xvart: IF YOU THINK FATE IS TOWN, DON'T LET BENMAGE MURDER HIM.

[Wraith]

And when I say Fate is for Benmage, so we can res him and get confirmed Benmage town. And if we rez him we'll postpone Benmage going murderer (IIRC) so we'll keep confirmed-town Benmage alive longer.

Have you read a word I've said? At all?

No.

@hito: I've played enough game's that I'd consider myself experienced. Benmage would have been lynched by PAGE TWELVE if the town were half-sane.

[Wraith]

Another metaphor:

You don't bring a container with a highly contagious, very deadly virus into the middle of your house and let it sit there. You fucking BURN IT.

[Wraith]

EBWOP: Because if you don't burn it, zombies will fucking eat you. Let's be genre savvy here, please.

[Wraith]

@Seacore: Fine, let's factor it in:

You have a highly contagious, very deadly virus in a container. You have brought it into your house. At the same time, people are shooting at you inside your house. How is that a smart idea?

In the movies, viral apocalypses occur when someone says "oh don't worry, we can control it!"

[Wraith]

Problem is, I am the only one I can rely on to rez Fate. And I don't have a rez kit. If I had a Rez Kit, I would be advocating this tomorrow isntead, but look, I don't. So I'm burning the virus before someone catches it.

[Wraith]

^Horrible horrible failure.

Fuck it, murder each other. I'm not going to help you.

[Wraith]

What if we give you a clear shot with no townies rezzing?

You're scum. You're next, tomorrow.

[Wraith]

I can't believe you're still on this whole benmage not town route....but I guess cult need something to talk about to look town.

I don't trust you not to kill fate, even as town. I've seen you lie before as town.

Then lynch him, dammit. Prevent it before it's too late.

[Wraith]

My personal suspicion on Hito is that he was still considering the already-debunked-as-utterly-insane plan of allowing Benmage to kill you, and then elaborating further by considering that we simply allow you to die without a rez at all. That's why he jumped to my attention, it's not me being stupid.

[Wraith]

*twitch twitch*

CD2

Username:

Wraith

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, Twitchy, I received a fetish of myself

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

*twitch*

I have to catch up on the day. I'll post later with more.

[Wraith]

Oh, Benmage stalked again last night? Can't say I screamed it so.

Vote: Benmage

[Wraith]

Also: I searched and have a rez kit, and I strongly believe I am Benmage's target.

[Wraith]

Also: I searched and have a rez kit, and I strongly believe I am Benmage's target.

LAL you received a fetish and you think I stalked you, yet you only claim one insanity.

vote wraith

Stalking me doesn't give ME an insanity, genius.

[Wraith]

I recall at least one person saying that, but that's it.

Find that person and put them on the list for lynching tomorrow.

[Wraith]

Trilobite, are you serious. He stalked N0 out of spite for another player. He stalked N1 AGAIN and this time even REFUSES TO CLAIM HIS TARGET. HOW IN ANY WAY IS HIS PLAY PRO-TOWN, AND WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING KEEPING THIS UNSTABLE PLAYER ALIVE?

[Wraith]

Trilobite, are you serious. He stalked N0 out of spite for another player. He stalked N1 AGAIN and this time even REFUSES TO CLAIM HIS TARGET. HOW IN ANY WAY IS HIS PLAY PRO-TOWN, AND WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING KEEPING THIS UNSTABLE PLAYER ALIVE?

That was my first reaction. But after getting past my anger for the play he made, he's still a terrible lynch.

I don't think so, but that's probably self-preservation instincts. I strongly believe I am his target based upon that he desperately wants me dead, an assumption that is based on his OMGUS vote where he ignored incredibly obvious rules to call me a liar.

[Wraith]

@Benmage: Since you know you were wrong and that I'm not lying, are you going to take that horrible OMGUS vote off me?

[Wraith]

Yes, Benmage. I didn't "receive" a fetish of myself last night, I had it all along! Somehow this caused me insanity! Wraith is scum! Somehow.

[Wraith]

Gonna be out soon, so in case nothing else pops up for me to say:

Since I know I'm being targeted by the cult and am probably being targeted by Benmage, I'd appreciate a pair of rezzes when night comes.

[Wraith]

@mod: Can one cultist craft a fetish of me the same night another cultist passes a fetish of me?

[Wraith]

Never mind the last question. New question: Can a cultist craft several fetishes of the same person in one night?

[Wraith]

Okay, just read Furcolow's post on his night action:

DID ANYONE ELSE DO ANYTHING TO EL GOOSUKI THAT WOULD CAUSE HIM TO HEAR NOISE?

Predit: Okay. Anyone else receive fetishes? Furc said they passed to a lot of people (?)

[Wraith]

I have no clue the ins and outs of this game, but seacore how can you rationalize thinking pass fetish immunes you for the rest of the games.

Lolno. Pass fetish makes you safe from cultkill only for the next night, because they have to make a new fetish of you for use in the ritual.

[Wraith]

Okay, caught up, now know that xvart warded El Goos.

[Wraith]

Also, @Furc: Why don't you want me robbing?

And Benmage, claim your target if you haven't already.

[Wraith]

He didn't stalk you Furc. The town cemented your alignment yesterday.

[Wraith]

EBWOP: It's far more likely that the cult crafted you since everyone thinks/knows you're town now. I wouldn't be surprised if you were their target for tonight.

[Wraith]

You know what? Benmage doesn't have to claim his target, because he basically said his target was me in this post:

Also: I searched and have a rez kit, and I strongly believe I am Benmage's target.

LAL you received a fetish and you think I stalked you, yet you only claim one insanity.

vote wraith

If he hadn't stalked me, he wouldn't have thought I had two insanities and "lied" about it.

[Wraith]

VPB what's not to trust.

I've hid nothing.

I delayed more the whole "murder" path.

I'm going to kill tonight.

The following night I will launder and than who knows but feel free to test me for blood...what will I be a murderer on D20?

I will also rob grave if that's what the deal is.

You may be wary of my target. Fine. But my alignment should not be in question.

And good lord, look at this liar. The bolded part is a lie. The italicized part is anti-town.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CAN WE LYNCH HIM? PLEASE.

[Wraith]

Plum...*facepalm* Did you deliberately not read my later posts? I now know that I can't be targeted for ritual tonight. But I am fairly certain I'm the target of a certain wannabe murderer.

And as Tom said, Benmage has quite clearly demonstrated he doesn't care about what the town wants him to do. If he did, why in the blazing hell would he have stalked again?

"Krypton is doomed."

[Wraith]

I'm afraid I won't be happy. Because I'll probably be DEAD.

[Wraith]

On your other two points:

1. I admit, in hindsight, that the "Benmage is trying to get me lynched even though he stalked me" is a pretty silly conclusion. But I have a question for you: As I asked the town as a whole before, why would he assume I'm lying about insanties if he didn't stalk me last night?

2. Well, I can't prove it to you, because I can't quote my PM. But I did receive a fetish last night.

[Wraith]

I DID receive a fetish. I searched for and found a Rez Kit last night. I already know who I'm using it on.

[Wraith]

Hey town. You guys have been talking about controlling Benmage for two days. How about we actually do something about it?

Here's my proposal: Benmage claims his target, or dies. If he claims it and it is in fact not me, I'll leave well enough alone and go for an El Goosuki lynch.

[Wraith]

And if it is you?

If it is me, I'm afraid I'll want him dead anyways because I can't trust anyone to rez me. But it'll let the rest of the town rest easy that it's not them.

[Wraith]

So, a grand total of four people did not hear noises. A crapload of people are liars.

[Wraith]

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

[Wraith]

@VP: El Goosuki is cult. But there's a goddamn elephant in the room and you're continuously avoiding it.

[Wraith]

Fucking hell. If I end up dead tomorrow I'll never forgive you idiots.

Unvote Vote; El Goosuki

[Wraith]

TNM is probably cult. If El Goosuki is cult, TNM is

definitely

cult.

[Wraith]

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Having played in SAII, I will affirmatively state that grave robbing shuts down scum. I've stated above while they won't veer away from their assigned graves. Your refutation of that argument is essentially, "Oh yes they will!"

You can borrow my crystal ball, if I can borrow your mind control powers.

In the meantime those organizing tonight I will only perform 1 rob grave tonight and 1 tomorrow for killing and laundering.

Oh wait, don't bother, they don't work. You can't make him do what you want, and the town won't follow through with a lynch tomorrow - and he knows it. We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

You've officially replaced Fate as the Only Sane Man. Thank God.

[Wraith]

We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

Tom, I don't recall seeing 'precedence' as part of your argument before, but I'll admit I have been skimming.

To be honest, the precedence of this doesn't really bother me. Let's face it, all of the investigators are 1-shot vigs if they want to stay town, and we can't stop people from doing it.
Benmage has come out and said it, but it wouldn't surprise me if others do it over the next couple of days and announce themselves after the fact.

As for people doing a kill "at random" when they're under threat, lets break that down.

1) It will take 2 nights for somebody who is under threat to clear themselves. They need to stalk and they need to kill. And I'm assuming they're trying to clear themselves as not being cult, rather than being town. That just won't happen. Somebody who we think is cult should be lynched, no "let me live for two more days and I'll prove it". The Benmage situation is not that situation. Well, it's not that situation for anybody but AV.

2) "At random" - Benmage isn't killing at random. Assuming he's an investigator, he is town. You may disagree about how pro-town his action is being, but he's not going to be able to go for murderer because the win condition is distinctly out of reach. Someone could investigate him on Night 4 and make sure he's laundered. At which stage it will be N8 before he could win. We can off him, if necessary, well before then.
Similiarly, others aren't going to be killing at random if this ever did come up, if they are town, it's a vig. That's not random.

Lets move on and actually start scum hunting, but lynching El Goosuki.

@ Benmage - Have you responded to why you won't name 4 potential targets. I think that would benefit town, and do away with the argument that you are just hoping there's a murder tomorrow for you to claim was yours.

The bolded is a damn good point. Benmage has exhibited a lot of generally scummy behavior already, and we're only taking it on his word and threat that he's a townie, because it's strange for a cultist to lie about wanting to murder someone. How do we know he isn't hoping for there to be a murder for him to claim tomorrow, as Seacore says?

[Wraith]

@Seacore: This is the post that set off alarm bells:

I think Benmage should definately NOT tell us who he stalked, and if he is an investigator he should PROVE IT by going ahead with the kill. Firstly, he may have stalked a cultist or the murderer. Secondly, town are (hopefully) going to be rezzing those they believe to be town and in danger anyway.

Thirdly, by BM not telling us who the target is, that forces cult to rez all their members who heard noises tonight if they wanna be completely safe. This consumes both their rez kits and their night actions.

BM: go through with the kill. Don't tell us your target.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

I'm not sure about El Goosuki, it's just as ridiculous for me that cult would claim that as a night action and put themselves out there like that.

Vote: Kunkstar

He has been going with the voting flow the entire game, plus I think he was trying to score town points with the BM issue while trying to get BM to reveal his target to benefit cult.

First of all, there's the advocating of the "Benmage kills someone at random and keeps it a secret who he'll kill" plan. I wouldn't be surprised if I went back and found that he was an advocate of the "Benmage kills Fate to confirm towniness" plan too.

Then there's the offhand remark about how the El Goosuki wagon is meh, which is the kind of attitude I expect from a scumbuddy trying to defend their buddy while at the same time staying under the radar.

[Wraith]

Seacore speaks sense. Now, why doesn't Benmage do this?

[Wraith]

The town's clearly not going to get behind a lynch-threat against Benmage. It's the only option we have.

[Wraith]

The gunpowder treason and plot...

[Wraith]

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

Fuck you, I almost burst out laughing in the middle of class XD

[Wraith]

@wicked: RC has already been dispatched. And my N1 action was to get a Rez Kit.

[Wraith]

vote: moi

policy lynch
too tough to read him

*facepalm*

What policy?

[Wraith]

Random thought for everyone: let's say you knew you were the target of Benmage's stalk. What would be your reaction?

I wouldn't be surprised, and you already know that I'd want him lynched.

To add to the Benmage subject - I can buy a Benmage-cult possibility, but it's awfully convoluted. VI+murderer-wannabe is far more likely.

[Wraith]

Leaning more to Magna-Town ATM. We'll see. Also

Dispatch: Fate

[Wraith]

Just make him a dead body. What's the harm of it?

[Wraith]

3 corpses is 1 less than 4 corpses. That's a 25% decrease of corpses that cult could use to get dust!

WHAT AN AMAZING OFFER. UNDISPATCH NOW!

Good point. I keep thinking about this in SAII terms.

Undispatch: Fate

[Wraith]

Crap. I've been spreading myself a little thin as of late. I'll try to concentrate on this game tomorrow or Friday.

[Wraith]

Hey guys, I'm gonna use ward on someone tonight. Can someone use their rez kit on me tonight?

Gonna look at the ISOs of El G and kunkstar, see whose lynch I like better.

[Wraith]

Okay, kunkstar:

Vote: Fate. Murderer or Cult. Its win-win either way.

Might as well do the noise claims. Heard noise here.

This is your randomvote, but it comes off to me as half-serious at the least. Dunno why you think Fate is evil one way or the other.

If we are claiming noises, claiming wards is necessary as well, to see which players have heard noises due to ward. Otherwise the benefit of seeing who needs to be protected is moot.

Furcolow is in no way confirmed town. How is anything he said not fakeclaimable by cult, or what action/mechanic confirms him?
Unvote; Vote: Furcolow for trying to confirm himself so eagerly, without proper basis.

I did not ward.

This is not a good enough reason for a lynch, and it looks like you're just trying to start a mislynch wagon on Furcolow. I think most everyone on this site knows about Furcolow's playstyle.

For a while during D1 kunkstar did a lot of tunneling against Furcolow pretty much revolving around Furcolow being an idiot. Meh, can go either way.

cool story bro.

vote: xvart

Man, this right here is enough to Vote:RC.

Xvart made a legitimate response to your conspiracist theory and you just dismiss it??

After most of his posts being against Furcolow, kunkstar suddenly jumps onto the RC wagon, which is beginning to gain steam, for an insufficient reason. That's a bit iffy.

On another note:
Vote: El Goosuki, I can get in on this right now. Seriously nothing from this slot at all, plus a pointless action even AFTER they read AND commented on hito's guide

This is a definite wagoning vote, with no real reasoning provided. Note that both the previous quotes were parts of fairly lengthy posts against OTHER people.

At the moment I probably find El G scummier than kunkstar, but as wicked said in his WoT, kunkstar's votes have been awfully oppotunistic and he's flying under the radar.

IGMEOY kunkstar

On an unrlated note: I would also like to add a comment about insanities:

Sadism, Paranoid, and Distraction

should be TOTALLY off-limits for town unless there is no other option. THe former two were the direct cause for the town loss in SAII. Even Mutilation and Halucination are preferrable.

[Wraith]

Now, El Goosuki:

First and foremost, we have him definitely

trying

to keep under the radar, most evidenced by this early post:

lolzKatsubesofunny.

Summary from somebody plz?
kthx.

In fact, most of his posts in general are short one-liners, several of them just him popping in to proclaim someone town for no reason:

VV is town.

Alright, everyone back off.

ReaperCharlie is town. "I AM MUCH TOO LAZY TO LOOK FOR THEM." Those are the words of a townie.

VV is also town.

-DGB

I find it interesting that throughout D1 he repeats the VV and RC are town, especially RC.

So, about half his posts are of the nature of "X is town" or "Town List, Scum List," giving absolutely no reason as to why he thinks these things. The majority of the other half are "Guys I'm lost," "Guys can I get a summary?" and "We're going to read now." The length that he goes without actually reading (and being a triple hydra, too) leads me to think that he just really, really wants to fly under the radar, stay in the background. I spent about 5 hours reading the whole 50+ pages of this thread before I replaced in. Three people can a lot better.

DIE CULTIST DIE

VOTE: xvart

The above is part of under "scum list" post, and is the very first time El G puts down a vote. It is also 50 pages in, and gives absolutely no reasoning for itself, at all.

His second vote in the entire game:

Worse than us, which is no small challenge:

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

Seeing a pattern?

Yeah, I think El G is a good lynch for the day.

Predit: @manho: that's because of this post, which is explanation for my previously-stated suspicion on El G
@VP Baltar: I believe the townies were going to lynch SOG but couldn't switch votes because of Sadism and Paranoid.

[Wraith]

@AV: I'm asking for a rez because of about 99% certian that I'm Benmage's stalk target.

[Wraith]

To start with, I was the primary advocate of Fate yesterday and pushed very very hard for a Benmage lynch, and came close. Benmage is know to be someone who keeps personal grudges for in-game actions.

Also: I searched and have a rez kit, and I strongly believe I am Benmage's target.

LAL you received a fetish and you think I stalked you, yet you only claim one insanity.
vote wraith

Then there's this post. If he hadn't stalked me he wouldn't have thought I was lying.

[Wraith]

(a) tried to set-up subsequent lynch targets in the event of an RC-town flip (in the same post that you voted for him)
(b) voted for what you claimed was dead-stone murderer-Benmage over your cult-suspect(s)
(c) said you'd advocate the Ben-murder-Fate plan if you had a res kit...and it seemed to suggest you'd advocate it today (ISO #30). If Ben revealed his target and it wasn't you, would you still go for it?
(d) said Hito was scum, and you'd go after him "tomorrow" - what happened to that?
(e) earlier asked for TWO res'es. You even claimed to KNOW you were being targeted by the cult.
(f) faff about Ben, saying he has to claim his target, no he doesn't, yes he does, no he doesn't
(g) say the Benmage-could-be-cult argument is a damn good point (ISO #67) and then say it's awfully convoluted (ISO #75)

a) total misrep, I said we should "take a look" at those people, not lynch them.. And if you bother meta-ing me, you'll find that I say things like that rather often - I like keeping possibilities open, and putting them out there.

b) What can I say? One less kill of a townie is one less kill. I believe I explained this thoroughly in an earlier post.

c)I would have advocated it if I had a rez kit, because I would have rezz'd Fate for sure. I couldn't trust anyone else to do it, and I didn't have a rez kit, so I wanted to stop the kill entirely. I've explained this. As for Ben revealing tonight's target: if it wasn't me, I wouldn't support it, but I wouldn't want him lynched as fanatically.

d)I believe I said in a later post that was me just being butthurt.

e) That was because I was passed a fetish. However, I later learned that you can't be ritual'd the next night after being passed.

f) Throughout this day, I have always advocated Ben claiming his target. AFAIK I have never said the opposite all day. Another misrep.

g) Meaning, it's possible, but it requires so much WIFOM regarding his play that it's impractical.

Anyways, I just want a rez just in case, and I've dropped the subject for now. Be happy for that.

[Wraith]

Also, @VV: I was very vocal during the latter period of D1. It would be awfully scummy if I suddenly disappeared without explanation, don't you agree?

[Wraith]

@AV: Now you're just blowing specific words and phrases in my posts out of proportion. Stop nitpicking and find some actual dirt.

[Wraith]

Still bewildered by Wraith wagon - what's the case there? He's obnoxious? Whopp-dee-doo.

God damn it, you made me crack up in the middle of class XD

[Wraith]

@mod: When is deadline?

[Wraith]

Uh...

Kunkstar wasn't a murderer in SAII. He was a townie who got destroyed in endgame.

[Wraith]

Guys, I do believe we're starting to get awfully close to the deadline.

[Wraith]

@VP: You didn't notice? I mean, it's quite obvious they're all insane.

[Wraith]

Yes. I really haven't seen anything particularly scummy about MoI except for the persistent tunneling against Furc.

[Wraith]

I think El G is really trying to convince us he's a VI now.

[Wraith]

Guys, can we lynch GoosukiScum now? I think it's pretty obvious...

[Wraith]

...

How did Fate get an insanity N0?

[Wraith]

My most likely theory: He stalked Benmage and lied about it. But we'll definitely need a flip now.

[Wraith]

I suppose I'll figure out why you think manho is scum in a few hours or so.

manho was thoroughly useless, popping in to make comments and votes under horribad logic. That's pretty much the gist of it.

[Wraith]

I can grave-rob tonight if I get a rez. If I'm not getting a rez I'm using my own.

[Wraith]

IGNORE FURCOLOW

That is all.

[Wraith]

Wicked was the attempted cult-kill last night. He got rezz'd.

[Wraith]

Who are the six and why do you think they could be going murderer?

[Wraith]

Screw it, I'm just going to use my Rez Kit tonight, and if I end up dead from a murder, so be it. But I will put in an "I told you so" now just in case.

[Wraith]

If I happen to get an insanity tonight I will probably be taking Solist. I don't really plan on searching for more equipment and I don't think anyone wants me robbing graves.

[Wraith]

I really don't care which plan we do, so long as it doesn't involve Furcolow.

[Wraith]

DOubly sweet. I'm still alive, and have some limited wi-fi access here.

CD2

Username:

Wraith

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

Negative

I'll post more thoughts later, but for now:

-My rez failed, and ATM I'm doubting he/she was targeted at all.
-I strongly suspect the noise I heard was cult crafting a fetish of me.

[Wraith]

First of all, why did MoI, investigator, have 2 insanties? Was he going murderer?

Second, I'm still convinced ElG is scum. But for now I'm not voting him because...

Thirdly, Trilobite is a liar. He needs to claim all insanities and actions or face a lynch.

Vote: Trilobite

Fourthly, Hito has a good point about xvart. Why did you stalk last night when it is very, very much been established that that is the worst thing we could do at the moment? Claim your target.

Fifthly, Furpants_Tom was obviously targeted by either cult+murderer or a Greater Ritual. That means someone who graverobbed N1 could be cult.

Sixthly, why is Spyrex still alive? Someone claim a rez.

Predit: Oops. I only thought it was bloody or insanities.

*twitch*

[Wraith]

*epic facepalm*

Funny how one missed word can totally change your view on some things.

Unvote Vote: El Goosuki

As for graverobbing - the cult

might

have killed Furpants through Greater Ritual. If they did, that means they might have gotten corpse dust N1. If they got it N2 they wouldn't have been able to use Greater Ritual.

[Wraith]

@VP, Trilo: Yeah that was my bad. I missed the "not" in "Trilobite is not more insane than me."

@Benmage: You mean someone warded him.

Also, that means someone might have warded me and caused mine to fail as well. Any claimants?

[Wraith]

Uh...

Have we all forgot that wicked was the cult's attempted kill N1? Confirmed town, and suicidal isn't the worst he could have picked (but not the best either >_>)

El G needs to be lynched today. SpyRex put it better than I could have ATM, as to how incredibly unlikely their excuse is. However...

I believe El G, TNM, and Spyrex are all cult. I've pointed out why I think the former two are cult, and I think Spyrex is bussing El G. No one's claimed a rex on Spyrex yet, and unless a prob-townie rezz'd him I'm going to assume the cult did.

[Wraith]

@VP: It'll be bad in the future, if cult start outnumbering townies, but not right now. Why would we ever be voting our only really confirmed townie?

[Wraith]

@NPAU: You're either overthinking it or deliberately attempting to turn us against wicked. Your theory is too WIFOM-y to be plausible, and too disadvantageous to be sensible.

[Wraith]

Who HASN'T posted their night stuff yet? In other words->is lurking?

[Wraith]

Furcolow can grave rob if he wants, we just shouldn't EVER rely on him to follow through. That's, what, the third time he's changed his mind TODAY?

AV, you did not claim your CD3.

To further elaborate on why El G needs to be lynched:

-He never claimed (AFAIK) his N0 action
-He made a useless action N1
-He made a useless action N2
-He took an anti-town insanity N2

Seeing a pattern?

[Wraith]

Vote: <ignore Furc, and not include him in any plan>

I seriously cannot understand how he has deluded himself into believing everyone loves him and believes he should lead us.

[Wraith]

When you all look back upon my lynch, please consider that all but one cultist is on it.

-DGB

Also, this. Explain.

[Wraith]

Okay, I'm willing to lynch either El G or xvart. I believe I've stated before that they're both my top suspects, and with xvart's stupidity about murdering Furc he's now jumped to "lynchable today" in my eyes.

Furcolow needs to not rez anyone tonight. Warding would be the best thing for him to do (I've said it, but it's up to him whether he decides to be smart or be dead)

Under no circumstances should the town condone a murder of a confirmed townie.

I vote we lynch El G today, lynch xvart tomorrow (provided N3 doesn't drastically change things)

[Wraith]

Not sure. I thought we were at L-1 when I was on the wagon, I got off, El Goosuki got on, then got off. I don't know.

preview edit: I probably will be getting on the wagon again, but I want to review Furpants' ISO first. And I want a clear answer from Furcolow.

xvart.

To me this reeks of scum unwilling to bus a buddy.

[Wraith]

CD2

Username:

Wraith

Did you Hear Noise?

No

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

No

I attempted to rez Furcolow both tonight and last night, and I failed both times. Furcolow must have been a total dumbass and ignored the multiple times I said "FURCOLOW DO NOT REZ TONIGHT"

[Wraith]

Murdering Furcolow was

FUCKING RETARDED

If you haven't noticed, we haven't caught ONE cult yet, and we're murdering people because they were annoying.

[Wraith]

Wasn't Furc's insanity from a stalk of his own?

[Wraith]

Vote: Spyrex

Nobody did explain why he was rez'd, did they?

[Wraith]

Sadism would be dumb for cult to take anyways. At this point they'd be trying to avoid post restrictions as much as us. Even more than us, actually.

Also, I'm not liking Baby Spice's chainsawing of SpyRex and attempt to discredit Benmage. As much as I don't like his play, we've confirmed* Ben as town.

[Wraith]

Unvote Vote: Andrius Unvote
Vote:AurorusVox Unvote
Vote:Baby Spice Unvote
Vote:Benmage Unvote
Vote:Feysal Unvote
Vote:hitorogoshi Unvote
Vote:Iecerint Unvote
Vote:kunkstar7 Unvote
Vote:Nicodemus Unvote
Vote:nopointinactingup Unvote
Vote:Plum Unvote
Vote:totallynotmafia Unvote
Vote:Triglav Unvote
Vote:Trilobite Unvote
Vote:VasudeVa Unvote
Vote:VP Baltar Unvote
Vote:Wraith Unvote
Vote:xvart Unvote
Vote:Wraith Unvote
Vote:xvart Unvote

Vote: SpyRex

[Wraith]

Unvote Vote: Benmage Unvote
Vote: Hito Unvote
Vote: Benmage Unvote
Vote: Hito Unvote

Vote: Spyrex

[Wraith]

I feel very, very sorry for poor, poor Percy

[Wraith]

I can do a confirmurder on Nico if the town's okay with it.

[Wraith]

@xvart: The town won't be warding me, so as Benmage said, the cult would only be wasting a player warding me.

[Wraith]

If Plum's going to do the murdering, then I'm stumped for a night action tonight. I might just rez someone I think is obvtown.

[Wraith]

In fact, I now know who I will be rezzing tonight. Nico's all yours, Plum.

[Wraith]

Are we in the "Debate the shit out of who's doing what tonight" phase? We still lynching SpyRex?

[Wraith]

I'm not killing. Plum is. I'm rezzing someone.

[Wraith]

And also, he probably changed his mind at the last second like an idiot, like he usually does. The rez failed, which (I believe) means it wasn't a Greater Ritual.

[Wraith]

Fine, I guess I'm stalking then?

[Wraith]

Hammer vote plz?

[Wraith]

Well sorry if I'm getting impatient. This is dragging out like anything that DMV-related. Meaning fucking forever.

[Wraith]

I'm in for the plan.

[Wraith]

Wow, this is over.

I'm rather glad I died. Saved me a lot of headaches later on.

I think I said it in the QT, but if we had let Benmage get away with murdering Fate N1 for spite I would have gone murderer. "Luckily" Fate kind of...solved the situation.

[Wraith]

Also, I'm surprised VPB was the last cult lynched. He was blazingly obvscum after VV's death.

[Wraith]

YOU MADE ME THINK HE WAS BACK
DAMN YOU

[Wraith]

Damn it, I want to see an SAIV sometime or another!

[Wraith]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUU