Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[VP Baltar]

Hey all!

I heard noise, which is kind of disconcerting. I think I'm probably a likely target to die early based on my performance last game...which would piss me the hell off since I've been looking forward to this game for awhile now.

I’ve reviewed the player list. Of those players I am familiar with the player I feel is most likely going to be a potential problem long-term for the Investigators (regardless of alignment) is Furcolow. This is based on direct personal experience and the end of Stars Aligned II.

I kind of disagree with this...but maybe that's because I didn't have trouble reading him last game. Also, despite his noise last time, he was on the right track at points and had he followed through on his stalk of SOG, town would have won the game. He was largely talked out of it by the rest of the town, which isn't really his fault. Plus I'm never pro-policy lynch.

What is your Stars Aligned experience? That is, have you played in both 1 and 2, just one of them, or is this your first?

First of all, good to see you playing again! I played in the second game and loved it. It's quite complex, but once you get to playing it's not so bad.

I would appreciate if someone who has played in at least one previous Stars Aligned game would weigh in on the merits of noise-claiming versus not. We know that people who didn't hear noise today won't die tonight, but it also gives the cultists information and I'm not entirely convinced it's in our favor to claim noise. If a player heard noise and WASN'T targeted by cultists, cultists know they were either warded or stalked (or warded someone else.) The benefit to town seems smaller than this, and so I'm leaning towards saying we shouldn't claim noise.

The cult does gain some information from noise claiming, but so does the town (ie protection targets etc.) Last game we claimed from the start and I don't really feel it was a huge detriment to the town. Later in the game, I think the information helped to pick out potential murderers easier, which the town last game learned the hard way is critically important. I'm pro noise claiming personally because the more info the better I feel.

Anyone have another choice?

I'm kind of curious, so do you think eliminating cult or potential murderers is more critical on Day 1? Why?

2) It might be interesting to see how the numbers match up (if a suspiciously high or suspiciously low number of people claim to have heard noise, for example).

This is an odd thing to say. what's a suspiciously high or low number of players?

I haven't played either of the SAs, but I don't get your argument. How does it help the cultists to know that someone was warded or stalked on N0?

He's saying then the cult would be better equipped to aim their NKs the following night.

I warded El Goosuki
MoI pushing policy lynch D1 when it should be RVS is suspicious, but he's just mad I got him lynched in ReaperCharlie's mini theme 1000.
I did not hear noise last night.

Sigh, I may need to retract my previous statement. WHY WOULD YOU CLAIM THIS WITHOUT BEING ASKED TO!

Additionally, why should I believe you are town this game Fur when you wanted to go murderer so badly in the last one?

Also, has Furcolow just been confirmed town?

Protip for this game: never confirm someone town unless you cripple their night actions. He may be town now (I'm inclined to believe so), but anyone can flip murderer at any time.


Bowser's vote is opportunistic and silly.

Vote: Bowser

[VP Baltar]

Um, I haven't even read this back and forth yet, but both of you shut the fuck up. Seriously. You hate each other outside of the game and this is useless jabbering unrelated to alignments, as much as you are telling yourself it is.

[VP Baltar]

I'm trying to catch up and I'm basically not reading anything Fate or Benmage say until they start scumhunting, so, just saying if I miss something from either of them that is why.

Actually given what we know about the Craft Fetish mechanic based on the number of noises that are heard we can make a rough approximation of the number of Stalks that happened. So while not scum-hunting it might be worth some discussion of suspects that Town should look direct their Night actions.

See my problem with this is that it implies some knowledge of the cult's numbers, otherwise you'd have no idea how many of the noises are from Fetishes or Stalks. Please explain because I must be missing something.

As much as I think Furc is town at this point, I really hate the way he is egging on the IdiotSpamFest.

AusVox feels like he's sucking up to Lost Butterfly in 219. Basically agrees with anything and everything they say. Meh.

@kunkstar7 - why do you feel Furc doesn't understand the game? He played a good majority of the last game and technically could have won the game for town there. I think he has a well enough grasp on the mechanics even if he is misguided at times.

Love this post. HAHA. But vote Seacore, we'll win a lot easier with him gone.

?

I like this too, don't get me wrong. In general I think it's preferable if Townies who plan on staying that way wait a Night or preferably two before making the allowable one Stalk/one Murder - it minimizes the chances of temptation to go Murderer (because missing two Nights would make the wincon almost impossible) and increases the chances of kills hitting scum (more Days = more info to go on). There are multiple players I'd be interested in seeing do this.

I agree with this. Town can you targetted kills later in the game safely without worrying the town they might become murderer. It could have won us the game last time and I'm sorry we didn't utilize it more.

im happy with my vote on bowser
following plum is my new favorite mafia hobby

Do you think he is scum or are you just following? Do you vote anyone that hasn't been voted first by someone else?



Alright, I made it to like page 14 and I need to start working now. Still fine with my vote on Bowser at this point and I'm pretty surprised that Plum is the only other person who sees how terrible his vote is. Scum ignorning obv. buddy? I think so.

[VP Baltar]

@Seacore - Fair enough. Even

I

skim the rules sometimes.

@Furc - stop fucking posting for awhile. Go outside and get some fresh air or something. The game will continue when you come back later.

[VP Baltar]

Still haven't read from page 14 (good to see you guys are keeping me 10 pages behind at all times, I'd appreciate if we stop this posting rate so people can actually catch up), but I saw this quick and it's pertinent it seems.

ElGoosuki, TNM and VP need to claim if they warded or not and who their targets were if they did.

I did not ward.

[VP Baltar]

I'm still reading (basically have to take the day off work to deal with this pile)

but just wanted to say:

So, even with the two assumptions, a) that you're not cult and b) that you wouldn't go murderer, we still have you doing something which is so incredibly anti-town. You rarely get a better reason to lynch somebody day 1.

lol, wut?

[VP Baltar]

Also, I think it's much scummier to subtly discredit someone's "confirmed" status than try to confirm oneself. Magna/xvart/VP Baltar/AurorusVox/kunkstar, I'm looking straight in your direction.

What the eff are you talking about? I said he's town. I've said that several times. I said I"m unsure if he'd stay town and that it's dumb to call anyone confirmed in a game where they can flip scum at any time. You disagree with that? If so, then I think you're being ignorant of the setup mechanics.

[VP Baltar]

Maybe looking at the Noise/No Noise claims might let us predict the distribution of cultists in each category?

Eh, I think there is a lot of WIFOM involved in that. Probably after multiple nights it will help to sort things out though.

Link?

But anyway, there is strong evidence implying that Furc warded on N1, which is a suboptimal action for a wannabe murderer.

Glance at him in SAII and see how many times I had to try to talk him out of killing. I think if I had let him go, he would have tried to go murderer there. In terms of Furc playing suboptimally...well.......

You realize that Bowser is CSL, right?

I mean...you've played with CSL before. Do you think his vote is out of character with his town self?

I do in fact realize. You do in fact realize that he doesn't get a free pass for every move he makes because he's CSL, right? He was actually scum in SAII and we successfully caught and lynched him there. You don't learn people's alignments by ignoring things.

[VP Baltar]

AusVox feels like he's sucking up to Lost Butterfly in 219. Basically agrees with anything and everything they say. Meh.

First of all, what was the point of mentioning this if you have nothing to say about it?
Secondly, couldn't the same thing be said of you? You pretty much did the same thing to Furcolow:

First of all, I pointed out his sucking up...how is that having nothing to say? You think I approve of his sucking up and I wanted to give him kudos for it? Second(ly), no. Just because I think Furcolow can play well at times does not mean I am sucking up to him by agreeing with him, which is what AV did. In fact, I think he's said some pretty dumb things in this game (shocker). I don't even see how you are equating my assessment of Furc's general skill level to AV following Lost Butterfly around.

Why would furc claim to have warded somebody not in the game, unless he thought they were in the game?

You guys need to use your gorram brains.

Hey this guy gets it! I think use of any brains at all would be good. I don't know why so many people are insisting that Furc is scum when essentially everything he's done this game MAKES NO SENSE AS SCUM. Why in the hell would he volunteer information that would only make him look silly when he could easily lie and have no attention on him? Because he's town, that's why.

~~~

I've come up with an awesome new rule for this game. From now on, everyone stops saying "SHUT THE EFF UP, I'M CONFIRMED TOWN." It is quite clear to me that you folks don't understand the set up. Like, at all. Try the rules again. And then read them again after that. If you make it to like Day 5 and beyond with several things triangulating your town status, then you can start calling yourself confirmed town. Until then, you're not. No sign up thread disproves this. /rant

Still reading, still catching up. This is my personal hell. I hope in the next 9 pages, the arguments get much better.

[VP Baltar]

99.7% of the shit in this thread is not worth commenting on at all. You're lucky you're getting anything.

I voted Bowser on like page three and I think that is a better case than pretty much anything you've said all game.

*plays banjo*

[VP Baltar]

Nevermind I didn't give a better reason for voting Bowser, BUT I HAVE MADE SOLID CASES/POINTS.

If you think a page 3 vote is still worthy than...

Nah, you're town play is good Baltar. Your scum play is apparently very lacking though. Were you scum in mafia at the 11th hour? Remind me.

I was.

What do you think has been your best case made this game? You can just point me to the post number and the player you feel you've singled out.

[VP Baltar]

2. You said yourself you've been IGNORING MINE AND BENMAGE'S POSTS, so how the fuck could you even KNOW your Bowser vote was better than all the content I've provided?

Well that's just patently wrong. I said I would ignore your posts until you two started scumhunting. I still look at every post you make, but when you start capslocking about how much you hate Ben I simply begin scrolling. Play better and I wouldn't have to. And I'm not trying to get in a bickering argument with you about who is doing more scumhunting. I'm simply saying that the conversations in this thread have been quite poor overall and I wanted you to point out what I'm apparently missing that is good (since you claim it is there). Perhaps I AM missing something good. I would like it pointed out to me, because I'm not seeing it right now. Third, your statement that I haven't commented on any posts is also patently false. My commenting has been on answering questions directly asked to me and things that I think are particularly noteworthy. The fact that I'm perpetually 10 pages behind here doesn't really make me inclined to post ginormous walls of text about the game state that far back. A lot could have changed and I'm a busy person that isn't going to waste my time. However, if I see something that stands out to me as needing to be talked about, I will say so. Once I'm fully caught up, then I can get more active in posting giant walls...though this game has more than enough for the remainder of its existence.

TL;DR

Feel free to point out your wonderful scumhunting and stop dodging.

[VP Baltar]

Look Baltar, I've been scum before. Its EASY as hell to have someone go: "here's something to comment on, what u think?" and you to say "i think XXX" INSTEAD OF producing new and fresh content and catching up on the game.

ISNT THAT RIGHT MR. LAWYER? EASIER TO TWIST AND SPIN INSTEAD OF COME UP WITH NEW AND INTERESTING VIEWPOINTS.

I'm not asking you to give me ideas about what I should be looking at. I'm asking you because I'm demonstrating how devoid of useful points this thread is. I'm on page 24 atm and it took a large portion of the town that long to realize that furc is an investigator. Even that was only after Spyrex had to type out a giant wall explaining it. I mean, ffs, if you don't think this thread is filled with useless babble (which you have actively contributed to the entire time), then I pity you. As far as your capslock portion, I don't even understand what you're talking about. But it's loud!

Other cool things that people have spent a lot of useless words on:
Should ben follow through on his stalk? No.
Is furc a VI or what! Sure, sometimes
What does Percy's post mean regarding Furc? It shouldn't have even been talked about long enough for Percy to have to post.

^I certainly summed those up and it didn't take me 20+ pages to do it.


I don't know when the site got flooded with caps lock attention whores that follow through on nothing. It is annoying to read and it only results in a completely schizo town. Big fat meh on it. Town would be much better served by focusing on people who have acted scummy and pressuring them hard.

I will make suggestions:
xvart has been generally useless from what I've seen, has pursued terrible cases and is hiding behind charts to look pro-town.
AV is a general mess of backpedaling and "whoopsie daisy, don't attack me any more for that because I didn't mean what I said"
Bowser still sucks, though I can confirm that they have dropped their posting rate elsewhere
MoI pushed the Fur case to the point of irrationality until it essentially became obvious it wasn't going to happen.
Lost Butterfly is clusterfuck of confusion.

All of these people require ample questioning, but all I've been reading is Furc = stupid. Pardon my frustration with that. I'm still holding out hope that someone besides Spyrex starts making sense here soon. When I get fully caught up, you can rest assured that I'll hold your hand and point you in the right direction. K?

[VP Baltar]

Oh and Baby Spice if for nothing more than post 581. Keep beating the dead horse until it runs.

[VP Baltar]

In the last game you could rob two graves per night. That's how we shut down so many of the murderers. I think this is still the case in this game except now Percy included Ward to block Rob Grave as well. This means that someone can be prevented from robbing a grave and thus it cant' really be used as a roleblock action anymore. That's why I said in the sign up thread that the rules have moved more toward favoring scum. Makes it more difficult, but what can you do I guess.

[VP Baltar]

So now being a Murderer is easier to get away with?...

*begins to Stalk VP Baltar*

We could have been bros...

[VP Baltar]

When I finish my reread, I'll go back and quote the things I think you've back tracked on. If I'm reading something wrong, then I'll let you off the hook. Furc = town has been fucking obv. since page three. And I'm pretty certain I just read your argument for that on like page 26 or something like that. I'll check back later for post numbers. Do you deny that you've backtracked several times this game?

@ xvart and MoI - What do you think of Lost Butterfly? Do their conflicting posts bother you?

[VP Baltar]

You might think Furc = town was "obvious," but I didn't see you logically proving it to convince others to unvote him.

He claimed a fucking ward and a mod error with that ward AND that he didn't hear noise even though he didn't know the rules had changed regarding ward. Does it really take someone spelling it out before people can get that? I don't think there is anything that could be more obvious than Furc's investigator status and I'm suspicious of the people that were trying their damndest to shovel shit on him because they know they can rile him up and potentially get him mislynched.

Re: posts/pages
My point is that it shouldn't have taken actual town 20 pages to figure out Furc is town. You appear to have explained it before SpyreX, which is fine, but that only makes it slightly better imo. I feel that your first post was definitely meant to test the waters of calling him scummy. Why else would you "offer reasons" for him to be all three alignments without taking a solid stance on his alignment? All of the same evidence has been there from the beginning.

going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

So you think you can just say this, and then suddenly you'll be able to backtrack as much as you want without suspicion?

Cool story bro.

Basically. Excuse making at its finest. "Just because we flop positions to fit the changing of the tides doesn't make us scummy because we're a hydra." ffff

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Lost Butterfly

This is a fight I definitely want to get into and a place people should be paying more attention. I know I'm not going to out word Mina, but I'd like to highlight some important quotes later today or tomorrow so people can see what I'm talking about. In the meantime, wagon ho!

[VP Baltar]

So why aren't you questioning the people that didn't unvote UNTIL I had spelt it out? I have spent the last ten or so pages convincing people, who STILL want to believe he stalked or is cult, that he DID actually Ward. You can't call me out on explaining it late in the day when there are still people who DON'T believe he's pro-town.

Oh trust me, I don't like those people either. I stated in my post that people who keep pushing it, such as Baby Spice, are incredibly scummy. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be pressuring you as well. How else am I going to be sure of your alignment.

The fact is that those twenty pages took like, what, a day? It's no good commenting on how "long" it took me to comment on it, when it came in what was my proper dedicated catchup post. Sure, if it had taken me a week to make the argument, then fine, go ahead and say I should have known it sooner - but come on, this is a game with a page explosion we're talking about. Not quite the same thing. Or does every thought you have immediately appear in your mind, fully formed, so you don't have to take time to actually think about things and process the possibilities?

Alright, that's a fair enough point. Obviously it has taken me longer to catch up than others, so there is probably time dilation that I should be taking in to account.

Except that's not really what happened, is it?

So, you're saying I should just take your word for it? Especially after both of you saw how Macavity Lock and I used a fabricated disagreement in aCoK to build momentum as we needed? I'm sorry if I'm slightly skeptical. I went back to reread the post game of aCoK to see if I could catch either of you commenting on that, but I don't think either of you did directly. So let me ask you now, you don't see how it could be perceived as scummy for a hydra to pull a complete 180 on previous statements simply because 'people aren't going to agree 100% of the time'? Having seen me do it as a scum hydra in that game, do you think it's an ineffective tool for the scum to use?

I would prefer not to do this. This seems similar to Adel's plan last game.

That's what I was thinking too. I was planning to read back over that whole exchange in SAII at some point because I don't remember specifically why it was fail, but I remember it was. Do you recall why? (might save me the trouble of reading even more SA pages)

Also, can you spell out the Benmage killing Fate plan for me? I think I missed the particulars of it in trying to read so fast last night. I get that an attempted murder proves him not-cult, but I think I'm missing how SSBF ties in to everything.

Couldn't this be scum trying to get attention away from scum?

Is this what you believe? If so, I'd like to know what hypo-scum you think I'm trying to draw attention away from.

It is not necessary to have two graves to rob every night. Every other night is enough, since Stalk and Murder have to happen on consecutive nights. Also it is in the rules, under Questions and Answers, that Rob Grave can be used multiple times per night.

This is true and basically what we did in SAII. Once you know the killing patterns of the murderers (which should be completely revealed by N4 at the latest), you can use grave rob to stop their cycles accordingly, thus making them waste a night. That being said, I think you guys keep ignoring the change to the Ward mechanic and how that throws a wrench in the grave rob as roleblock plan. There is a lot of WIFOM involved now.

While I'm sure you appreciate the foibles of dealing with hydra, you have yet to come across the same dilemma. Maybe it is because you have only posted three times, but are alluding that you might make contradictory reads in the future? I don't understand the basis for this comment, considering both player slots in totality of content presented.

+1

Glad to at least see a little turnaround in xvart's play. Should make him easier to read.

Has Zach posted for the tribolite hydra yet?

Relevance?

I can see where they are going with it. It's a null-point.

@LB - do you really feel that there was no shifting momentum toward Furcolow at that time when he shifted to the leading wagon within the next few pages after your vote? I think Faraday was egging him on in his responses and that led to a lot of votes on him at a crucial time. I'm going to read over the entire exchange again, but that's how I felt on my initial read.

[VP Baltar]

where were you at when i tried to wagon them for two days?
if you want to lynch LB, there are many lynches that indicate their alignment which are less hurtful on the town if LB is an investigator (baby spice, seacore, fate) in my opinion

im still fairly happy with a lynch on LB, i've been pushing that nearly all day.

I was still catching up. I didn't know what your reasons for wagoning were or if they had explained their flip-flopping yet. I'm here now though.

[VP Baltar]

VP, do you want Wicked's particular version of the Benmage plan, or will any do? I think mine is a pretty fine version, because it accounts for Fate and Ben being town/town, town/scum, and scum/town.

Your account is fine. I just need to hear it all laid out in one spot so I can understand better.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so the murder goes through before the ritual, meaning that Fate can state if he was attempted murdered. What if cult kill him on top of that just to make Ben look bad? I assume the rez would stop the murder first and then it would look like he was cult killed. Though I guess SSBF then claims if he rezzed or not....though the greater ritual would negate that too. I'm also still not sure on the significance of SSBF doing the rezzing, or does that not matter.

preview edit:

I can see where they are going, too; but I want them to spell out why they are asking; it might not be null.

Ok, I got ya. I think we're on the same page about it then.

[VP Baltar]

Sorry all, I'm pages behind because I had to work yesterday. This game is at the top of my update list though, so I'm hoping I can get something here by this evening if the page explosion isn't too crazy.

[VP Baltar]

After I finish working this morning, I'll get back into reading this game. No promises I'll finish today given how far back I am, but I'll give what I can of my free time today to reading here.

[VP Baltar]

No noise, no ward.

I'm actually caught up and have somethings I want to speak about. Seeing LB's insanity count makes me think I was right about them.

My top suspects right now are MoI, Baby Spice and Wraith, though there are several others floating about I don't care for too much.

Before I get too involved, Plum, I want your opinion of Wraith right now. Scummy or town VI?

I need to think a bit about lynching or dispatching today and if we dispatch, who we should dispatch. More very soon (ie please don't page explosion while I have to work today).

[VP Baltar]

How many times can we dispatch a day?

preview edit-

Thanks! I finally turn 2!

[VP Baltar]

I personally think LB is cultist. I really didn't like their play yesterday at all. Too many town reads that were unexplained and too much trying to shovel dirt on anyone who suspected them. It was annoying that I fell so far behind because nobody was really doing much about their terrible play. The fact that they were taking tiny jabs at Trilobite (who I find exceedingly town) without ever presenting a case bothered me. Of course, LB did the same thing with me several times...which I think might have been partly due to me not being around. It just felt like fishing to see if they could get support before they engaged in a word battle they weren't sure what the outcome would be.

--edit--

Yes, I suppose Vi is correct about dispatching.

Ok, here is the big draw back I see: we are creating more bodies than we can effectively rob tonight, which increases the cult's chance of getting corpse dust. The question is if this is a big enough drawback that we're willing to fore go knowing RC and Fate's alignments by tomorrow. We'd need eight grave robbers to successfully rob all bodies and guarantee scum can't get corpse dust....that's kind of a big investment. Maybe dispatching a single body is the way to go today.

[VP Baltar]

CD2

Username:

VP Baltar

Did you Hear Noise?

No

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Nope

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Nope

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Zero

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Nope

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

Nope.

[VP Baltar]

@nopoint - is there a problem with Trilo searching for equipment two nights in row?

[VP Baltar]

@Trilobite - if we end the day with four bodies, we need 8 people to rob graves because that is the only way to guarantee that scum won't rob the grave themselves and thus get corpse dust. Of course if we assign two cultists to a single grave, we still lose. Having people just randomly rob graves is a one way ticket to confusion.

[VP Baltar]

Why did you stalk again though when you descrying additional insanities yesterday? Why not take a much more pro-town action?

[VP Baltar]

wow that was wrong word usage...don't even know where that came from.

when you were complaining extra insanities etc.

[VP Baltar]

HEARD NOISE, DID NOT WARD!

ALSO, FATE AND RC ALIGNMENT NOT REVEALED?

~Kat

Good to see you can't be bothered to even read the A FUCKING MODKILL SCENE. I realize my contributions haven't always been up to date in this game, but your hydra is not even trying and it's really starting to get old. Either catch up or replace out.


Everyone in your next post, answer the following questions:

1) Do you think dispatching one or both of Fate and RC is a good idea today?
2) If yes, who do you think we should dispatch?
3) If no, do you never want to dispatch them or just not today?

Vote: MoI

On my reread of MoI yesterday I was finding his dismissal of the VV case to be excessively confrontational. When VV made his case I do agree that MoI is the type of player that you basically have to hunt by feel because he just snows you with words. Arrogantly dismissing that as nothing seems to be intentionally ignoring his own meta, which I'm sure he's well aware of.

[VP Baltar]

Unless I'm wrong, again, couldn't a whole mess of things cause a town N1 insanity?

Why the jump to OHH SNAP OBVIOUSLY EVILLLL?

and why are people agreeing with it?

What makes you so certain they got the insanity N1 and not N0? I think if you're playing a truly pro-town game you should probably not have any insanities at this point (looking at you Benmage).

[VP Baltar]

hi Ben!

Why have you and most everyone else ignored my question about dispatching? It seems relevant to our interests.

[VP Baltar]

VP, you should be one of the four people bouncing graves tonight.

That's cool. And I agree that we should be nomming people to rob.

Also, it's not eight people...don't know why that slipped my mind. It's only four people because we can rob two graves. That makes for much less of a cost to us. Apart from myself if that's what the town wants, I'd like to see Furcolow and Benmage robbing. I don't trust Benmage's stalking and whether he thinks he's right or not, I don't really feel like letting him loose on a kill. I may want Plum robbing too depending on some questions I have for her....though shutting down Wraith or Baby Spice is a great idea as well. So many scums to poop on!

[VP Baltar]

OK, well if we have Furc rob RC alone, that will essentially lessen the cost of robbing.

I'd be for dispatching both probably then. We then have three bodies to deal with and we have three chosen ones cross rob to clean up those bodies and prevent cult madness.

So for example:

RC = Furc
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Baby Spice, Wraith
Lynchee = Wraith, VP

or whatevs. We can't have unflipped bodies toward endgame, even if it is 99% likely Fate is town. WIFOM would make knowing when lylo is going to occur very difficult.

[VP Baltar]

Out of the list, who do you want to rob Furc?

Also, I personally want Benmage on the robbing list...that was more of an example than anything else. Though Baby Spice completely ignoring it makes me definitely think she should stay on it. I can see Baby Spice cult trying to get out of robbing by saying nothing and hoping the list changes.

[VP Baltar]

I'm down to rob grave...but if I have the most insanities....isn't it bad if I rob graves and add to them?

Basically what Seacore said. You had a chance last night to do the right thing and you chose to stalk again instead. Frankly, I don't trust you anymore because Fate getting modkilled was your chance to change your path and you're still on this killing kick. I know you can be a good scum hunter, but there's still a chance even you can be wrong and I don't think we need to be willy nilly murdering townies at this point when we could have lost up to three already.

[VP Baltar]

VPB what's not to trust. I've hid nothing. I delayed more the whole "murder" path. I'm going to kill tonight. The following night I will launder and than who knows but feel free to test me for blood...what will I be a murderer on D20?

I will also rob grave if that's what the deal is.

You may be wary of my target. Fine. But my alignment should not be in question.

I believe you are an investigator. No doubt about that. However, you going renegade isn't going to happen. It's all well and good to make promises about laundering and all, but what does that really get us? Look at SAII for example. We kicked ass as town and successfully lynched six days in a row. That game still went to day 8. There is more than enough time for a person to give up nights early in the game and still win as murderer.

Even if you're telling the truth, we risk a potential miskill from you tonight and then have to waste time robbing that grave and using forensic tools on you to see if you're telling the truth (and you'd still might have enough nights to win as murderer after you're "confirmed"!). I just don't see what the town is gaining by you doing as you please.

@Aus - I don't think it much matters since LB is dead and we'll know their alignment after their grave is robbed. If you feel it's important that Furc takes it, that's fine by me.

[VP Baltar]

Sigh, let's not spend another day talking about lynching a prob-investigator. There are several good scum suspects that can and should be pursued. Shutting down benmage with grave robs for tonight and probably one night in the future is going to do more than enough to make it impossible for him to win if he tries to go murderer.

Dispatch: Fate
Dispatch: ReaperCharlie

[VP Baltar]

Then he signs his own death warrant and is lynched tomorrow, which will make you a happy kitty. Or, he follows the plan and maybe gets to help the town later in the game. Choice is his to make.

[VP Baltar]

Damn scummy. Thanks for asking. But basically this is colored most by the fact that of the whole RC/Fate/Benmage mess with the shifting wagins Wraith looked the MOST opportunistic and the LEAST interested in scumhunting for real. And why do you ask, VP, and what's your take on Wraith?

First let me say, I approve of your answers and I'm now less suspicious of you over this. The reason I asked was because part of your Seacore hate seemed to revolve around him wanting to lynch potential murderer Benmage instead of cult. Wraith essentially proposed this same plan yesterday and I felt you were giving him a bit of a free pass when you were handing out the dunce caps and telling him to pipe down instead of calling him scummy. I personally think Wraith is scummy for his continued push on Benmage, and as I said earlier I'm not too surprised at his claim of receiving a fetish.

That's fine, but I'd like to hear the questions, mkay?

You're in my good graces now. I no longer think you should grave rob tonight.

[VP Baltar]

VP, if I read you correctly, you're suspicious of Wraith's fetish claim. Are you suspicious of mine?

I'm interested to see how many people claim they have received a fetish.

I dislike Wraith much more than I dislike you...though I've had my meh moments in reading you yesterday. I'm sure some people honestly could have been passed fetishes last night, but of course I'm going to be skeptical of anyone who claims it. What better scum claim is there for an insanity? I'm also interested to see how many more people claim to receive fetishes last night.

[VP Baltar]

@ben - why did you take obsession instead of twitchy?

I agree with VP Baltar's plan, having two people robbing a grave, each pair with a likely town and a likely cult.

Wickedstjr + Seacore robs Fate
Furc + Babyspice robs RC
Benmage + El goose robs LB
VP + Wraith robs today's lynch

The problem with this is that you're not shutting anyone down by doing it. I completely agree that we should have one town and one scum suspect per grave so we stop any chance of corpse dust/lying about grave robbing. However, Rob Grave is a free action, so unless you have the scummy players robbing two graves, you are giving them a get out of jail free card. Following that same logic, you probably need to just have the town players rob two graves tonight as well and switch them out on future days, thus spreading out the insanities for the town and concentrating them on scummy players.

@tom - you insistence that I need to come up with someone better than Benmage for you to vote is ridiculous. Even if you don't agree with the MoI case, surely there are people in this game you think are likely to be cult. Are there? I find it hard to believe that 77 pages in you don't have a single person you think is highly likely to be cult. In fact, I'd like to hear your thoughts on who these people could be in your mind. Then I'd like to hear your thoughts as to why lynching hypo-murderer today > lynching your top cult suspect.

@Furc - basically what nopoint said. if people skip, we'll know since most people probably have equipment at this point. Any cultists we manage to put on grave robbing duty are going to be too scared of skipping because getting caught out is game over. Same for murderers really. As long as we pair it up town v. scum, the scum is always going to follow through with the grave robbing.

I need to go through my notes at some point today and post some of the stuff I wrote on my reread. First:

@Vas - you stated at some point late in the day that Wraith bothered you, but you had such a strong town read on rewq that it was negated. For information purposes, am I missing something? Did rewq do something that was exceedingly protown or is this a gut read for you?

@Spyrex - I almost have to laugh that you are calling Wraith equatable to Fate in his Benmage bloodlust. It is pretty clear to me that Wraith sees Benmage as an easy mislynch/needs to save his own skin from a stalk. I don't see how you are reading town motivations out of anything he is saying.

@Wraith - Who is cult? Do you even care about finding cult in this game?

Happy Scumday, Seacore!

[VP Baltar]

He did NOT follow through his kill, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do so (the fact that Fate was soulless negates almost all of the drawbacks to vigging him)

I think that would have been a terribly stupid use of night action considering it wouldn't have made Fate dead from my interpretation of the rules. Not that Ben didn't proceed to waste his night action anyhow, but ...

He has since said that he only wanted to catch scum with his kill - but that wasn't his plan yesterday. His plan yesterday was to vig Fate to prove his town-cred. When he thought Fate was scum, he wanted to LYNCH him, not vig him.

I agree with you that Ben isn't out to catch scum (though I'm sure he thinks this is an added bonus). Where I disagree is that I believe Ben is out for Ben. He truly thinks by killing he will confirm himself town and be superawesomepowerful. Of course, that all relies on the premise that he's investigator and not cult.

He now won't claim his stalked target, which could mean he's planning on claiming a N2 murdered body as his own kill (a devious plan since the actual killer won't out themselves, as they're doing it secretly).

This is patently ridiculous and relies on Benmage having outside knowledge that there is in fact going to be a N2 murder. How would Ben be sure enough of this to claim it? Seems like a stupidly risky plan for a cult. Way too much of a gamble.

ALL of this screams that he never stalked Fate, and that he didn't stalk last night.

No.

He probably did not realise that he'd be forced to follow it through. In fact he even tried to prevent it being followed through with his desire to lynch Fate.

So you are suggesting that cultBen and all of his buddies did not realize that if you claim stalk, you're going to be expected to murder that person?

a) He's telling us, right now, that he won't play nice. He's going to kill someone, and he's certainly not going to tell us who he's targeted unless he's actually facing the noose.

Actually, he said he'd grave rob. And it doesn't matter because he doesn't get a choice.

b) Our lynch tomorrow is vastly more valuable than our lynch today; because we'll know a lot more.

This is empty rhetoric. Our lynch today is plenty valuable and you have more than 70 pages of info to look for cult.

c) There's a pretty good chance we'll leave him alive tomorrow, even if he kills

No there isn't. If he kills tonight, I'm voting and badgering everyone until he's lynched. End of story.

d) People assigning him to graverobs tonight are kidding themselves and building plans that will fail, which will make our night less effective.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Having played in SAII, I will affirmatively state that grave robbing shuts down scum. I've stated above while they won't veer away from their assigned graves. Your refutation of that argument is essentially, "Oh yes they will!"

So no, I won't be pointing out any cult suspects, until Ben has agreed to play by the town's rules, or is swinging from a branch.

WTF? yeah, I would lynch Furpants today too. He clearly is not scumhunting and is trying to stall it for as long as he can because he can't make a real case. All I did was ask for some damn names and even those can't be provided.

Scums in need of the rope post haste

:
MoI
Furpants Tom
Wraith
Baby Spice
El Goos

[VP Baltar]

Guys, something just occured to me that needs to be pointed out immediately because it impacts the town's plans to rob graves. (Based on Manho's post above though it may already be too late to prevent RC from being dispatched.)

The cult can ward too. Ward BLOCKS grave robbing actions.

We're essentially drawing a map to scum for who to block to ensure that they can rob the graves alone.

If they block a grave, they can't rob it either.

@Wraith - how am I ignoring him? I've directly addressed him and how I think we should deal with him.

[VP Baltar]

Where has this interpretation come from? It clearly states that night actions can still be used on Fate, i.e. he could have been killed/murdered.

Idk. Reading Percy's rule change, I basically got the impression that the only way to make them dead was via dispatching. I guess it's open to interpretation, but I can easily see Benmage thinking his murder would be a wasted action and thus choosing to do something else.

Regardless, he could have Cult Buddy A claim to be the target of a kill; Cult Buddy B claims to have resurrected "A," and finally Ben claim that "A" was the stalked target. Not to mention that this would account for bloody states and insanities on the part of those involved. I understand the attraction of Occam's Razor, but I think this setup lends itself to outrageous plans and gambits.

That's a lot of cult eggs in one basket imo. Especially over some terrible play from Benmage. If I was on that cult team, I'd be bussing like mad and cutting losses.

fate can be left soulless for now as i don't think having so many corpse out there is good.

Why is it bad?

[VP Baltar]

I don't get your argument manho.

and to those who wants fate dispatched, why do you need the flip now, rather than, say, tomorrow?

Because bodies are only going to pile up as the days go on. Taking care of the graves now is probably for the best since it doesn't appear we have a lot of murderers in the game (unless more decided to go that route last night). We don't want to waste night actions in later days robbing graves when we could be turning up scum with equipment and such.

@ben - stop posting, seriously. you either do what I'm saying today or you get lynched. I'm trying to help save you from a lynch, but you're not giving me much ground to stand on when you proclaim you're doing as you please. You either rob two graves tonight or you've got to go. You gave up your free will in this game by making two stupid night choices in a row.

[VP Baltar]

grave robbing is a free action so it won't affect our usual actions.

The best play we can make is to shut players down for a night with grave robbing, therefore they should rob two grave on any given night.

@Benmage - you're seriously getting worse and worse at mafia the more arrogant you get. I'm not going to argue with you. You don't get a choice. I'm appealing to other logical members of the town (hito, Plum et. al.) to explain this to him because I'm not going to have a shouting match with Benmage like Fate did.

[VP Baltar]

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

This certainly a deep thought. That being said, how do you account for all of the people wanting him to stop behaving like a child on Day 1 with his stalk? Those people were cult too? Who do you feel are the cultists that are worried about Benmage? Personally, I think the cultists would be in support of Benmage killing because statistically speaking he's likely to hit town and thus save the cult the trouble. Also, your point about the night actions is simply wrong. IIRC, the Ritual, which is more than likely the cult's main concern at night, is a free action. Therefore, they can rez their buddies and kill whomever they please all without breaking a sweat!

Next fallacious argument why Benmage should follow through with his kill?

[VP Baltar]

VPB how many days do you think you can go dwelling solely on me and performing zero actual scum hunting (feel free to save the answer for endgame)

Do you feel it's unclear who I suspect?

[VP Baltar]

Suspect? Nope you gave a nice little list people and even yourself can point to. You also voted MoI, but your doing little campaigning or persuasion that way and seem much more concerned with my affairs. Bussing?

Your over reigning stupidity and ignorance of the town's will forces me to give you more intention than is necessary. In case you didn't notice, I was trying to get people to not lynch you. And you're right, I'm bussing. You should vote MoI now so you can totally run me up tomorrow.

So launder, search, ward, pass fetish, craft fetish and rob grave are unecessary actions for cult? God, I hope for your sake you're not a cultist.

Yeah for sure. Those actions take care of the townies and thus help the scum reach their wincons. Cult needs to kill to win. They can do that and rez, that's my point.

[VP Baltar]

I know no reason ..

...why July 4 is so much better?

[VP Baltar]

Regarding dispatches, I understand what VP Baltar and AurorusVox are saying, but I still feel that we should dispatch both the soulless players.

I think they should be dispatched too. I think you make a good point about you and Furc. Insanities will cripple you guys if you alone do it for the rest of the game, but you two are definitely the most town at this point.

[VP Baltar]

MoI has a lot of experience with Furc. He knows that Furc is a derpy player.

MoI, do you feel this is a fair characterization? I mean, it doesn't take much to understand Furc's play, so I'd like to know if you feel like you do understand what his style is?

Bigger FOS on VP Baltar because I remember that he was the one who opened the discussion on minimizing tonight's bodycount and but keeping his vote there anyway. (If he's not, then this FoS redacted. Too lazy to check.)

You should actually read the thread instead of just skimming things. Minimizing body count was never an argument that I made.

@Wicked - I think your grave robbing plan works and is essentially what I was proposing, though the town is more likely to see you as more confirmed town than me (obv working from my own perspective). I don't agree about nopoint though. As AV already mentioned, cult would have known their kill failed on you and could have easily claimed the rez safely before you got anywhere near the thread. On the other hand, they may not have claimed it at all. There's too much WIFOM there and I don't have a strong enough town read on nopoint right now. I think we should stick with you and Furc robbing the four graves tonight along with two scummy targets of the town's choosing and then we'll see where we're at tomorrow in terms of pro-town people.

My goal is to do a full review of MoI today because even I admit that the case is a lot of gut (though I think the point on the Furc pushing remains as solid scumpoints). Just posting this so I don't get lazy and let myself slack off from it later.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I've been looking at MagnaofIllusion in iso for a bit now and I'm not going to post some giganormous case and stamp my feet like Vas is doing, but I really don't get where some people are coming up with town reads on him from. The biggest offenses I see from him are:

1) The ungodly tunnel on Furc like it was his day job. This is what really set me off about MoI in the first place because I honestly feel like he was not trying to look elsewhere. I mean, PAGES and PAGES of tunneling on Furc (21 to be exact). He finally unvotes after he believes AV's thing. One thing that is giving me a little bit of stay in my accusations however now that I've isoed and checked the vote counts is that the Furc wagon actually seems to have been gaining a little steam when he bailed. This doesn't jive well with the idea of Magna scum unless a) he thought the wagon would carry through on its own or b) he realized AV had so thoroughly shut down the wagon that he couldn't push it anymore. Magna is probably smart enough to see a turning tide if he needs to, but it's all WIFOM in that regard. One thing I don't like in his stance regarding Furc was later when he said that people who found Furc town initially are scummy...I find it ridiculous, given that Furc plays so damn transparently and several very town looking players (hito, Trilobite, etc.) can see that, that his first statement after the wagon is to call those who saw it early scummy. Seems like a cheap way to discount the suspicion on you.

2) After agreeing with AV about Furc, he...proceeds to vote AV. Now he claims that he finds Spyrex's case on AV "compelling". That's cool and all, but he never really talks about AV or tries to push any kind of case on him. Then I looked at the iso and I think I found the real reason. MoI says that he doesn't like like AV's post 492 in reply to SpyreX's 351. I suppose it's just a coincidence that AV happened to call MoI out on his massive Furc tunneling and vote him in 492 as well. Vas mentioned something similar to this in his ISO of MoI, but it probably got lost in the fighting.

I also don't like MoI's defense of this point at all.

You think I’m not playing aggressively [with respect to AV] when any number of people have attacked me for being too aggressive regarding Furc? Cool story bro.

How is this even an answer to the accusation? Yeah, you tunneled a VI for 21 pages and then were lost for where to go next, so you dawdled and didn't seriously pursue your next number 1 target AV. That's perfectly scummy and say 'cool story bro' is ridiculously dismissive of something that stands out as legitimately scummy.

3) RC wagon rolls up at the end of the day and MoI is an eager beaver to jump on that. We get a fancy pants iso of RC in 1171. I don't know, but I always find these post by post isos to be kind of scummy because people seem to rarely ever give the person a fair shake when doing them. I mean, seriously go back and read MoI's PBPA of RC. Essentially 90 percent of RCs posts are called scummy or fluff. I find this quite over the top by any measure. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and RC will flip scum, but I just find this kind of rhetoric excessive and unlikely to come from town. That of course, is sort of ironic, since Magna seems fond of attacking RC, Vas and others for their rhetorical statements. Now before Magna comes in and says 'ZOMG VAS DID IT TO ME TOOOOO,' yes I realize he did. I think he was being over the top as well, but I also feel like you were winding him up with your antagonism from his original points on you. I still find it scummy regardless, but yours on RC is worse because nothing provoked it other than you trying to trump up your vote.

4) Again today I see almost no direction from Magna in his scum hunting. I see a lot of defending himself and being generally kind of pissy about being called out as scum, but I for the life of me cannot tell you who Magna is suspicious of or wants lynched. I still find it weird that he isn't pushing the AV case Spyrex is still on about. I don't see anything that has changed from that really. Magna, do you find AV scummy or not? If no, what changed? If yes, why are you not voting him?

So, for those of you that said the MoI case is nothing but hot air, this is a good summary of what I see in it. I would like to hear people's thoughts on these points and an explanation from those that find him highly town as to what exactly you're seeing that I'm not.

[VP Baltar]

I may need to rethink MoI after reading VP Baltar's post, but I still suspect kunkstar7 more.

heh, ditto.

[VP Baltar]

I agree with hito that Benmage voters need to shuffle over to someone else. The consensus is to let him kill as he pleases. I still say he should be forced to grave rob or be lynched, but whatever. If Benmage targeted me, I'd ask to be protected. That may sound selfish, but I think I'm an asset to the town and getting NKed by someone playing terribly in game that I really want to play would piss me off.

Spyrex and AV need to exit the vortex of tunnelling. You're both ceasing to contribute meaningfully to the thread and we don't need that. What do you think of MoI and the case I spent my entire Saturday afternoon working on?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, AV's plan is the only true way to test that because no investigator should be bloody other than rezzers or potential murderers. We know the former and the latter aren't going to claim to be bloody. Of course, the problem is that right now Wicked is one of the best people to grave rob and therefore wouldn't have an action available to launder. We could replace him in the grave robbing with another pro-town person or put me back in there, but that is theoretically riskier for the town.

[VP Baltar]

done iso on MoI, but he is town.

why? I want a damn explanation of these town reads on him because I see nothing to indicate that.

[VP Baltar]

his attack of furcolow's confirmness is not something cult will do, and so hard. i think they would have given up that argument long before MoI did. they won't want that much attraction that early on an unlikely mislynch.

So your argument is essentially "too scummy to be scum". What about the other things I pointed out? You think those are out weighed by his Furc tunneling?

[VP Baltar]

Yo Wraith, how about you talk about something beside the Benmage subject....like the kunkstar7 or MoI subjects. What are your thoughts on those? Is there someone else you think is cult besides El Goo?

[VP Baltar]

Wicked can do one grave rob and launder. It seems to be that the townie looking people we're choosing to grave rob would be better off doing one rob and an action, while the people we're relegating to bouncing graves because they look scummy should do double. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, that was one option that had occurred to me as well...only downside is spreading insanities around too much, but that's not a huge deal this early in the game. So going back to my other list we could do something like:

RC = Furc, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Wicked, Baby Spice
Lynchee = Hito, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]

or however we decide to do it.

[VP Baltar]

The pathetic answer to that question is "embarassing stupidity x 3."

-DGB

Sigh. So we're expected to just let all of this pass as stupidity. Are any of the three of you caught up at this point?

[VP Baltar]

I've fallen back in the game a bit, but quickly:

I also love that point 2 and 4 (which I’m not bothering to address directly as they say basically ‘VP’s opinion of this is scummy’, which I disagree with) amount to ‘I’m not scum-hunting’ yet when I put together a case on RC it’s scummy. Lovely. Decide which direction you want to push VP.

WTF? Those aren't really personal opinions at all so much as they are facts based on your play and voting record. This is the same shit you were saying to VV earlier and it's a nonsensical comparison of apples and oranges. You're not scumhunting and what little you are trying to push as scumhunting (RC) is pitiful. That's an opinion, but I think for anyone who goes back and reads that PBPA of yours it should be somewhat obvious. And I don't see why you are not answering my point about AV. That's just facts and I think it deserves a response. As do others apparently, so chop chop.

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP: that's an opinion, but it's backed up by your words in thread. I'm not passing empty judgement on what you've written.

[VP Baltar]

Hey Nicodemus, what's going on man? I'm not a fan of you lurking so much. I'd like to hear your thoughts soon.

(Actually a lot of people fall in this category, but Nico seems a priority.)

[VP Baltar]

Um, I generally agree with your robbing plan wicked, though I still prefer my own incarnation of having town looking players cycling in and out of grave robbing while keeping the scummiest of the scum shut down permanently with robbing duties. I think my version is better at limiting the cult and yours is more geared toward shutting down murderers, so it's really a priority issue. If there were more apparent murderers on the table right now, I'd probably opt for yours. Right now, I'd rather deal with the cult though.

I think VV is right about the fetishes, cause I was revived and subsequently killed in SAII. IIrc, scum didn't have two fetishes of me in that game.

[VP Baltar]

THe former two were the direct cause for the town loss in SAII.

Actually, no they were not. Town could have still won that if they had no lynched and let Furc kill, which was the correct play on the final day as I explained in the dead QT of that game I believe. Regardless, I agree with you that voting insanities are bad news for the town to be taking.

[VP Baltar]

@VP Baltar: I believe the townies were going to lynch SOG but couldn't switch votes because of Sadism and Paranoid

I don't recall exactly, but what I do recall is them lynching Furc who had stalked and could have killed SOG. That was just a dumb move and it wasn't related to insanities. They could have No Lynched and won the game. *still bitter*

[VP Baltar]

Catching up from about Page 90 or so after falling behind later in the week.

it means I'm voting one of the "best" players out of the game, and for no reason other than I suspect they're scum. It's a real double-edged sword, and it makes me second-guess my reads on good players at least twice as much as on other players.

This unfortunately is applying to the MoI case right now. I respect him as a really good player, so I'm instantly more suspicious of him than I am of others. To complicate the situation, players like Oj, VP Baltar, and sotty have all said that he's scummy. But, I still feel guilty when I think about voting him because I don't want him to die if I'm wrong. I do see his scumminess, but I'm just less comfortable voting him than I am other players.

I'm sorry, but this stinks to high heaven to me. If Magna flips scum, Nico is definitely cult. How can you see the case and then not vote because of being a fanboy? He's either scummy or he's not.

FACT – I questioned and put together a case on ReaperCharlie. You and others can cry all you want about it not being scum-hunting. It’s as much scum-hunting as ANYONE in the game has done.

Scum hunting and whipping together ugly iso posts are not the same thing. Also, lol @ scumhunting as much as anyone else.

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

I do believe they are scummy and I definitely don't care for their complete lack of contribution thus far in the game, nor their ignorance of Hito's guide after reading it. I prefer the MoI case I made however, as I think it is a very solid compilation of points that were never really refuted at all. If it comes to deadline, however, I would definitely support an El G lynch.

re: kunkstar7 case for Wicked

I believe I did mildly comment on it, but I shall go into detail because I wanted to check his play here against his play in SAII first because I recall finding him somewhat scummy throughout a large portion of that game and he turned out to be town. I'll just address it point by point so my stance will be clear:

1)He has flown under the radar

Meh, so have a lot of people. I'm not sold on this.

2)Tunneled on Furc for a long ass time

I agree that this is scummy and is definitely something I noted. Basically, all of the Furc tunnelers (kunk, MoI, babyspice, etc.) all made my short list for just that reason.

3)Avoids taking stances, talks about theory a lot

This was the main point of your case that made me want to read SAII. Looking back at that game, I only find this semi-valid here. He definitely talked about the setup a lot in that game and also spent noticeable portion of his posts talking about night actions/posting the night action table. I do think he's given very few stances in this game, but he wasn't exactly posting crazy amounts of good cases in the previous game either. I also noticed two other things on my iso of him in SAII: 1) the furc hate in this game was present in that game, however to a lesser degree. 2) kunk was more active in that game than this one. He did lurk some there, but I feel like he was at least posting consistently in that game.

4)Votes opportunistically

Out of the votes you listed, I see the RC vote as the only one I'd truly call opportunistic and even that was heading in the direction of deadline. This point seems a little trumped up and I think his lack of voting is more of a tell than his wagon positioning you are pointing out.

5)The reads he gives are weak

True, but this is a repetition of the not giving reads point.

Overall, I think it's an ok case, but certainly not better than the MoI case. Not by a long shot. MoI has acted scummy, was called out, refused to answer the accusations against him in any real way and continues to attempt to bully people away from him rather than answer/scumhunt. It's textbook of a player who is perceived as a leader getting caught out as scum early.

Trilobite, MoI has acted suspiciously, but at least he has made some attempt throughout the game to scumhunt. The same can't be said of kunkstar7.

This wasn't addressed to me, but what scumhunting do you exactly see from MoI? His vote on VV?

The "I am being scummy on purpose" defense is bad in most situations - namely, when Jojo the hypercharger death machine does it so that he keeps his "sweet ass role".

In this setup? It is terrible. Because, ultimately, it amounts to "I don't want to be NK'd so I'm gonna get lynched instead!"

There was no SHOCKING REVELATIONS involved. Nothing. Just self-preservation which is tech.

I completely agree with this. Why is MoI pushing this "I must survive line"? It's not like he's doing shit to help the town if he is town now and he certainly does not have any powers that the rest of the town is lacking. It's a BS excuse to scummy behavior. "You acted scummy!" "Yeah, I did....b-b-b-but it was on purpose so don't lynch me!" Give me a break.

MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)

Just want to take this time to point out how many town looking players are on this wagon. If ever there was a wagon you could join and feel good about, it's this one.

In a strange turn of events, I actually like El G's #2295. People seem to be disagreeing with it, but I think you should actually look at backing for the El G and kunk votes.

Then they were asking for a summary of what is going on, directed at LB. If we had a flip of LB that might tell us something

Tell us something like what?

kunkstar7 - i believe he is a investivator vi. honestly. i've played with him as one before, will anyone else back me up on this?

I don't know if I would go so far as to call him a VI, but I will back you up that he was suspected in SAII for similarly poor play (focusing on setup instead of scumhunting). I'm not as sure as you seem to be about his town status, but I definitely feel MoI is a superior lynch at this point.

@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that you or Furc think MoI will flip scum?

[VP Baltar]

Have you people lost your minds? You apparently agree that moi is acting scummy, but you don't want to lynch him because he 'might be useful later if he's town'. That is the most ridiculous reason I have ever heard to not lynch a scummy player. If this is the defense that his cult buddies have come up for him, then it's pitiful and just makes me want to lynch him all the more. Let's not forget that it was Nicodemus that started that line of argumentation for preserving him I believe. More MoI votes.

[VP Baltar]

Haha if you know me VP, I never defend a scumbuddy ^_^. And I don't feel strongly enough that MOI is scum to vote him. You got a problem with that? =)

I don't have enough meta of you to know that...and that wasn't really the vibe I was getting from your post, but whatever. My only problem is that I feel very certain MoI is scum and would like to see him lynched today. It is your vote though.

@VP: You didn't notice? I mean, it's quite obvious they're all insane.

Yeah, it happens I guess. You still think El G is a better lynch than MoI?

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only you can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

It's the former. No one can prevent forest fires when the main advocate is a bear named "Smokey". In this instance, MoI is the bear in always in the woods with the suspicious sounding name and the pocket full of matches. I don't really get this metaphor myself, but still, lynch da scumz.

[VP Baltar]

lol, I got your joke...I was mocking my follow-up

Maybe bad humor will get people to see what the most pro-town players see as obvious...idk.

[VP Baltar]

Hey look ... more pointless vote cheerleading.

I really don't have the willpower to slog through another round of 'You aren't scumhunting and are mean' and such tonight.

Perhaps I will have the will to deal with the repeition tomorrow.

Yeah, that's certainly the case on you... Still waiting for that opinion of obv. scum AV from you.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, that's certainly the case on you... Still waiting for that opinion of obv. scum AV from you.

VP - can you jog my memory or direct me to the post where it is explained why AV is obvscum?

xvart.

I was referring to point #2 in my MoI case. He had attacked AV on day 1 as pretty much a top suspect, calling SpyreX's case on him "compelling" and then he never did any kind of follow up. Relevant quote below:

2) After agreeing with AV about Furc, he...proceeds to vote AV. Now he claims that he finds Spyrex's case on AV "compelling". That's cool and all, but he never really talks about AV or tries to push any kind of case on him. Then I looked at the iso and I think I found the real reason. MoI says that he doesn't like like AV's post 492 in reply to SpyreX's 351. I suppose it's just a coincidence that AV happened to call MoI out on his massive Furc tunneling and vote him in 492 as well. Vas mentioned something similar to this in his ISO of MoI, but it probably got lost in the fighting.

I also don't like MoI's defense of this point at all.

You think I’m not playing aggressively [with respect to AV] when any number of people have attacked me for being too aggressive regarding Furc? Cool story bro.

How is this even an answer to the accusation? Yeah, you tunneled a VI for 21 pages and then were lost for where to go next, so you dawdled and didn't seriously pursue your next number 1 target AV. That's perfectly scummy and say 'cool story bro' is ridiculously dismissive of something that stands out as legitimately scummy.

MoI has summarily ignored this point against him (and others) and hasn't given any kind of update on his stances, instead choosing to call the points against him rhetoric that aren't worth his time to answer.

[VP Baltar]

Back, will catchup in detail but MoI's /proddodge AND Feysal's wasted vote are both awesome.

What about ElG's wasted vote?

Have you actually looked at Nicodemus? Do you think his play isn't vote worthy?

[VP Baltar]

I agree that we should be dispatching Fate today and really that should have already happened. Reposting my graverob plan:

RC = Furc, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Wicked, Baby Spice
Lynchee = Hito, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]

It would seem our choices for the second scummy grave robber would be between El Goo and kunk. My opinion is that we should just have whichever is the second wagon for the day rob the other two graves. Based on the votecount from page 93, that would be kunkstar atm.

[VP Baltar]

Why do you want ben to rob one grave? The whole point of him robbing is to shut down his action. Giving him an extra insanity for the hell of it is dumb. And if you think Furc is cult, then that's just silly.

I still think graverobbing should follow the SAII format of being used to shut down cult/murderers.

-preview edit-

I can understand where you are coming from with most of it, but I don't think it's an efficient system for stopping scum members. Just my opinion though....that's why I was trying to get more people talking about graverobbing early in the day instead of waiting too long.

[VP Baltar]

One question: Why exactly are we blocking Baby Spice when they have exactly one vote on them? Wouldn't it make more sense to replace BS with the 3rd wagonee, given that we have 3 relatively large wagons at this point?

I just put her there originally because I'm suspicious of her. I think a lot of people are actually, even though she hasn't gotten much attention today. Third wagonee may make more sense though. In terms of scumminess though, I think BS is just as bad as kunk or ElG really.

And I understand putting VP on the list because it's his plan, but is hito there because people seem to trust him, or for another reason that I've missed?

You're correct. The point of the list is to put one protown person with each scummy person that way you are less likely to have cult corpse dust or skipping out on robbing graves.

I don't really see a need to flip him at all, frankly. If he was scum, I can't see any situation in which he would have said anything about RC's out-of-thread disclosures, since RC was very, very likely to be lynched anyhow. Percy noted that the soulrip was for "attempting to gain tactical advantage", and I can't see how his actions - moving off a town bandwagon and then revealing his off-thread information to the town - could be perceived as advantageous for scum. RC I thought was a worthwhile flip, because it's entirely possible that he was lying to Fate out-of-thread in the first place.

WIFOM is WIFOM. It's better to be certain than to be later in the game and have lylo come up unknowingly. I think Fate will flip town too, but that's no reason to believe it's an impossibility.

Hmm about your other point, however. I'll be interested to hear from the mods.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, who robs graves from the protown side is less important than who robs graves from the scum side....so it's really up to the majority to decide. Benmage is already crippled with insanities from his idiotic stalking, but I suppose one more isn't going to hurt. I do think he's town. I also think hito's town, so I'm pretty indifferent to which of them does it.

[VP Baltar]

I can live with that.

[VP Baltar]

Hey, AV, ELG and Andrius - I think it's time to move your votes to MoI. He's today's lynch and the people you're voting for currently aren't going to happen before deadline. The more you stall, the more you're going to look like his buddies when he flips cult.

Hi, Iecerint. Good to see you again.

[VP Baltar]

Oh and Triglav is correct. We need to plug names in before deadline just to be certain that the graverobbing is clear in case of a tie.

[VP Baltar]

wait yeah, wtf?

[VP Baltar]

MoI is the lynch today, that's what happened. He's lurking harder and contributing less than El G now in an attempt to dodge the rope. Feel free to vote accordingly.

[VP Baltar]

MoI is the lynch today, that's what happened. He's lurking harder and contributing less than El G now in an attempt to dodge the rope. Feel free to vote accordingly.

am i disagreeing....?
im just making a connection

I was talking to SpyreX actually. You just ninja'd me and I was too lazy to put @Spyrex in there because I thought it was clear from context.

[VP Baltar]

lol @ xvart

[VP Baltar]

Oh, and I agree with Seacore. I just don't think your graverob plan is the right choice for the situation Wicked. We only know of one murderer at this point. I really think we're better off to try to shut down/up the insanities of cult and track the murderer with equipment.

preview edit:

Dispatch: Fate

pewpewpewpewpewpewpew

[VP Baltar]

@Iec- Dispatch was only added later to the game because RC and Fate had to be modkilled. Basically, dispatch makes them dead. Prior to being dispatched they were neutral survivor treestumps that couldn't post in thread.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, we just asked that. They don't. But it's irrelevant now since they've both been dispatched already.

[VP Baltar]

I actually tend to agree with seacore on this. Furc was very unreliable in SAII and stalked several times after being told not to. I'm fairly sure in my hito read, so I personally feel like the risk is slightly less having hito rob (because I know he'll follow through) than having Furc rob graves he's agreeing to now but can change his mind on whenever he damn well pleases apparently. He's changed his mind like four times today about what he's doing tonight and likely town or not, that doesn't make me all that comfortable when it comes to important night actions like grave robbing. Everyone should be weighing in on this, btw.

[VP Baltar]

I'll need to look specifically, but if my memory serves me the conversations mostly went like:

Furc: I'm going to stalk tonight.
Town: Please don't stalk because we're getting closer to endgame and we can't afford you killing the wrong person.
Furc: I don't care, I'm stalking anyhow.
Town: Fine, we'll lynch you.
VP: Let's not do that. Furc I'm trying to appeal to you reasonably, please don't stalk for XYZ reasons.
Furc: I'm going to stalk tonight.

etc.

If I can find some time, I'll look to see if I can find him being offered specific night actions to do, but I don't know if that's as relevant as Furc will do as he pleases because he doesn't care about the bigger picture, only the game he is playing atm.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[VP Baltar]

It's not proven, just pretty likely. It's possible the cult no killed, but I doubt it in a game this large on the first night. He's like 99% town.

[VP Baltar]

If they don't, there will be no way to tell whether the suspect players actually robbed who they were supposed to. So, instead of stopping cult, we might end up giving them convenient explanations for having insanities.

Cult wouldn't know if the dead have equipment either though. If they want to stick their necks out not robbing, I hope they do. Most likely they will get found out that way and thus be lynched.

[VP Baltar]

MoI hasn't posted here in two days despite posting quite regularly elsewhere on the site. Why not lynch his scummy ass first and lynch his buddy BS tomorrow?

[VP Baltar]

i'm not going to rez tonight, so people with resuscitation kits may save me if they would like. i would rob two graves. i'm fine not robbing, though. i will just search for forensics in all likelihood.

Again reiterating why it is impossible to include you in any sort of critical role for night actions. "I may rob, might not, who knows...I'll just pull it out of my ass at the last second." Seriously Furc, I thought you had learned your lesson from the last game that just doing your own thing at nights is not the way to play this game. I hate to be the wagging finger mother here, but you make it difficult for the town to plan effective night actions.

[VP Baltar]

Why Triglav and Andrius?

[VP Baltar]

I'd also like to hear why you suspect them of going murderer cause your grave rob plan seems pretty random and silly if you ask me.

[VP Baltar]

It would actually be night 5, but same difference. I think cult should take priority atm. Right now I think the best way to catch the murderer out is occult books by people with zero insanities atm. If we still don't have a clue tomorrow or the next day, then murderer needs to be number one priority. Just my two cents.

[VP Baltar]

Post explosion. I've only skimmed all the stuff, but I want to read Iec's posts indepth before the day is out. Also, since we're getting toward deadline I still recommend following the latest version of the Seacore graverob plan. Right now shooting for murderers with grave robs is kind of a shot in the dark. After a night of using equipment to narrow down the potential suspects, we will be in a much better position to specifically target suspect players. Meanwhile, we have kunkstar, Baby Spice and El G who are considered reasonably scummy and have a chance of being cult. Putting them on grave robbing is only beneficial to us if it is true they are cult because it limits their ability to ritual and gives them insanities. On top of that, I don't trust Furc to rob even if assigned. He's changed his mind again since he said he would, so that should be evidence enough not to put him in a key position.

[VP Baltar]

Also, you're forgetting that letting any cult graverob will get them Corpse Dust. Which, as Seacore indicated, isn't the end of the world, but is pretty suboptimal.

No, I thought it was only if they rob alone they get corpse dust. That's why we are putting town looking people with the cultbags...that way they won't be likely to have just cult robbing any one grave.

[VP Baltar]

I want to read over these night plans closer. I'm still not understanding why we should be pushing insanities on players that are less likely to be scum in the off chance they are murderer instead of forcing insanities on players that have a higher likelihood of being cult, but perhaps I am not getting it clearly. I understand what wicked is saying about the dichotomy between NPAU and Feysal, but there is also the distinct chance that they both just rezzed him by PoE last night. It's not like it was a random choice like Baby Spice and xvart chose.

I'm also going to try to get a list of night actions together like hito had done so people will be able to choose easier. Should be able to get that up at some point today, so don't hammer before then.

[VP Baltar]

Investigator's Reference Night Two-Day Three

I don't have fancy pictures and I just quoted hito cause I'm lazy. Sue me. I believe I've made all appropriate changes for Night 2. If I have an oversight, please point it out.

Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

, just like pretty much every other night will be. If you rezzed last night, it may be a good night to take

Launder

. You should inform the town immediately if you took this action so we are aware of your bloody status. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a decent night to

Use

equipment you may have. This includes

Occult Books, Forensics Kits and Resuscitation Kits

. You may also choose to

Search

for equipment, though this is a suboptimal choice if you already have two or more pieces of equipment.

This is a good night to

Ward

someone if they have not heard unexplained noise, thus ensuring their survival through at least Day Four. If they did hear noise last night, warding won’t prevent a murder or ritual, but it will prevent additional Stalk or Craft Fetish uses. The murderer will be stalking tonight, so warding can effectively prevent this action. If the person heard noise and you would like to protect them, you should use a

Resuscitation Kit

if you have one.

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option unless you are ordered to do so by the town's grave rob plan. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option. The following players heard noise and were not warded or claimed to have received a fetish:

AurorusVox
Baby Spice
Feysal
Furcolow
Furpants_Tom
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
MagnaofIllusion
Plum
SpyreX
totallynotmafia


Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

. While stalking and murderering can confirm a town, it’s best to do it on a later day when the murderer wincon is virtually impossible to achieve for someone starting out. In other words, don't be Benmage because he's an idiot.

This is an acceptable night to use

Commune

, though it may still be best to save this action for later if you are unsure about your target. If you choose to use it, think carefully about your target and if they may gain an insanity from a pro-town action prior to your Commune resolving. For example, players that need to

Launder

tonight will gain an insanity before you Commune them, thus making your result unreliable and wasting your equipment. Commune is an effective tool for finding scum, but you must use it correctly or it will add insanities to the town unnecessarily.

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are

forbidden

from taking N2:

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim.

Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so

Twitchy

is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities – you have nothing to hide. If you have already taken Twitchy, you may decide to take

Taboo, Solist, Obsession

or a similar style insanity that does not affect your voting ability.

This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD3]Username:
Did you Hear Noise?
Did you Ward? If so, who?
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?
List all of the insanities you currently have:
Did you [b]successfully[/b] resuscitate? If so, who?
Were you murdered?
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)
Twitch?[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD3

Username:
Did you Hear Noise?
Did you Ward? If so, who?
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?
List all of the insanities you currently have:
Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?
Were you murdered?
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)
Twitch?

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

[VP Baltar]

You don't gain an insanity from laundering unless you're not bloody when you do it, and I'm not sure why anyone who's not bloody would chose to do so.

Yeah, you're right, good catch. That's what I get for skimming. Without that, commune is a generally good action to take. There aren't really any actions that we don't know about then that should be causing insanities for people.

[VP Baltar]

VP, can you organise a good grave rob plan to go with your guide? Since, even though I based the one I posted off of yours, I can't be trusted to do it, apparently.

For the record, I thought your latest grave rob plan was a fine incarnation of my version. Maybe we should take a town vote on whether people support this plan or Wicked's version. We need to be clear on what plan we follow tonight regardless, but I still feel that forcing the scummiest two players behind the lynchee to rob is the best course of action.

[VP Baltar]

I vote for grave rob plan A obviously, since I see that as the most advantageous plan.

I believe that's

A - 8 votes
B - 1 vote (presuming Wickedestjr)

Wraith's cop out of voting for a plan is noted and I haven't put him on either wagon yet. 12 votes secures the grave rob plan.

Um, yes, good point. I assumed that's why they weren't on the list; but actually doing my homework reveals that's not the case. Why didn't they (and you) make your list, VP?

I was just throwing things together quickly yesterday morning because I didn't have a lot of time. I just went to Wicked's table and was copy pasting people who had claimed noise today but didn't have an explanation for it. I didn't go back to look at the day 1 list, but Feysal seems to be correct that those people (myself included) should be on the list.

[VP Baltar]

Thankfully I'm still super-happy with the MoI wagon but I don't want the same slog tomorrow because our whimsywagon might not hit scum then.

I don't quite catch what you're saying here. What is the "slog" currently?

Also, I think it'd be good if you went and compiled a third "official" investigator's guide. The problem with this sort of thing is that everyone plays the game differently and is probably going to have different night strategies that they think are appropriate (especially as the days advance). I think people are picking and choosing between what I put up and what Feysal put up, so it's probably best to have you compile a third and final version that has the best of both worlds. That will be the version that everyone needs to follow tonight.

[VP Baltar]

Hmm, I disagree about grave robbing, as that's a pretty important facet of the game, but it's not worth getting into a discussion about.

Here's the spark notes version of my investigator's reference:

Things to do tonight:

Launder (if bloody)
Commune
Investigate
Resuscitate (appropriate targets)
Ward (appropriate targets)

Things not to do tonight:

Stalk
Murder
Grave Rob (unless ordered to)
Perform the Ritual (cultists only!)

Acceptable Insanities:

Twitchy
Taboo
Solist
Obsession

Unacceptable Insanities:

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Grave Rob Plan:

RC = VP, Kunk
Fate = Benmage, El G
LB = Wicked, El G
MoI = Hito, Kunk

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, grabbing equipment if you don't have any is a smart move and won't leave us short on equipment a night or two.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I certainly wasn't saying people shouldn't search by leaving it off the list. It's just most likely that people have equipment to use before they need to search for more. I'm sure everyone has their own theory on how much equipment they should be carrying at any one time.

[VP Baltar]

CD3

Username:

VP Baltar

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, one from grave robbing and one from Communing Trilobite.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Solist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

Yes, Trilobite is not more insane than me.

Twitch?

*twitch*

[VP Baltar]

At this point I'm considering lynching you, so it doesn't matter.

[VP Baltar]

le sigh. If you are town, this is not the way you should be playing your errors. If you're scum, bravo for even more WIFOM and appeals to emotion.

[VP Baltar]

Waiting to see what Percy has to say about Iec's claim.

Also, kind of biffed it there if you have Twitchy Wraith:

Twitchy -

If you heard Noise the Night before

, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

I implore anyone with insanities (and everyone else) to please read the rules regarding them very carefully. We don't need unnecessary insanity infractions.

[VP Baltar]

Why is trilobite a liar Wraith? Am I missing something?

@ Iec - oh...I thought you were saying you protected him but nothing happened. So you are bloody and failed to protect?

[VP Baltar]

Actually, I think the problem is that Furpants Tom used a rezz kit and couldn't be protected....right?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, in yo face hito!

Side Effects: Your target hears Noise. Any Resuscitate action targeting you tonight will fail, and the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure.

[VP Baltar]

The rules are saying Furpants would not be notified of the failure since he rezzed.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I'm unsure, but it really doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be notified anyhow. Not like you can't figure it out the next day when the person is dead. Idk. Percy can clear up whatever was meant there.

[VP Baltar]

Why are you not revealing the results of your investigation?

[VP Baltar]

Actually, why did you cut out that part specifically to avoid answering your investigation?

Furthermore, PEOPLE SHOULD FOLLOW THE PLAN. It's there for a reason. You're now an endgame liability Wicked. Good job.

--edit--

And what benmage said.

This game.

[VP Baltar]

I knew I should have taken the murderer route.

[VP Baltar]

Please fill out the chart Furc so we can have the information standardized and easily accessible for reference.

[VP Baltar]

I definitely see where Ben is coming from. Need to hear the rest of the night results first of course before voting.

I don't really have a bad feeling about lynching El G though. I could see them both as cult actually.

[VP Baltar]

has everyone claimed now and no one is backing Spyrex? Just want to make sure before I vote.

[VP Baltar]

Oh yer...AV and then a bunch of lurkers. Forgot how many there were in this game.

[VP Baltar]

lol, I FoS everyone in the game except for me too! Take that.

I can't tell if tnm is really this slow or if he's trying his damnedest to distract from his buddy El G and/or Spyrex.

[VP Baltar]

Yes. I remember. My blood lust overcame me. But now I'm in a pickle after all the investigator flips because I don't think it is the town's best interest for me to kill my target.

I really hate this frankly. It's the perfect cult claim for gaining an insanity. "I stalked, but now I've come to my senses and won't be killing tonight. Sorry about the mess up guys." Perfect way to hide the ritual.

El G should probably not be the lynch today. Instead, we should commission somebody to murder them. All three should be absolutely ashamed of their play, but I think they're less likely scum at this point.

Depending on what happens with Spyrex here, El G definitely should be the lynch today. Publically declaring they should be murdered is not going to work for a number of reasons. 1) you need to assign a murderer to them, which the cult can just kill. If you don't do this, you'll either have no one stalking or you'll have multiple targets stalking. 2) The cult can just ward El G to prevent the stalk tonight 3) The cult can just rezz El G even if they do let the stalk go through.

So you're talking like two nights of actions wasted and a number of insanities gained just so we can be in the same spot in a few days regarding El G and have to lynch them anyhow. I don't know if they are cult either really, but you don't get to blow your night actions two nights in a row and go 'whoopsee daisy, Is insane now!'

Finishing reading I see you changed your stance (though for odd reasons), but I'll just leave this here so everyone else can see why lynching El G absolutely has to happen.

[VP Baltar]

If cult decide to never kill me, I'll be a confirmed townie that survives to the end.

*facepalm*

This is starting to be like talking to Furc. You guys really need to get over your 'I'm confirmed town, therefore I know better than everyone else' mentality because you're wrong. You're causing LYLO to happen a day early. Do you not realize how bad that is for the town? When scum come in and power lynch you because nobody can stop their majority, I hope your confirmed town status gives you comfort.

sounds awfully suspect. I could very easily see you mentioning such in your first post (waiting on results from Percy or something like that) or even not posting at all until the results come in (that's what I'd do.) I simply can't imagine posting "yes" without an explanation as to why you have no result.

I agree with this. I don't see why you'd post without your full results first. The first thing I would have done is talk to Percy.



@hito - I just thought of something re: Spyrex that could make him non-cult. Are you thinking of the same thing? Suddenly your opposition to the wagon is making sense. I don't want to say anything yet because I want everyone to speak first, but still. hmm.

[VP Baltar]

Please show me where I have said something like this.

Actions speak louder than words my friend. You already proved it by following your own night plan rather than the town decided upon guide.

or this is saying essentially that:

I think that having a nearly confirmed townie in the game until the end is a much greater benefit than what could POTENTIALLY bring the town to LyLo a day earlier. Potentially, because if we were in MyLo and not LyLo, this wouldn't be a problem.

Yes, having you around is better than getting another lynch to find scum. That doesn't sound ridiculous at all.

Just an FYI, lylo can actually occur with more than 3 players left if that is what you are basing your stance on. Anyhow, this argument is dumb and I'm finished with it because nothing is going to take back a terrible insanity choice.

suicidal isn't the worst he could have picked (but not the best either >_>)

Actually, yeah, it's a pretty fucking terrible insanity to take. Hence its appearance on the banned list.

[VP Baltar]

@VP: It'll be bad in the future, if cult start outnumbering townies, but not right now. Why would we ever be voting our only really confirmed townie?

/kills self



@xvart - what made you decide to kill furc as opposed to someone who is less likely to be town?

[VP Baltar]

I don't dislike talking to you. My problem is from people who just play however they please because they are "confirmed" and then it screws up the overall town strategy. Winning in Stars Aligned is very much about gaming the setup while having good scumhunting skills. This is why I get pissed when people just do whatever they want. You are actively reducing my chances to win and I don't enjoy that. I would rather you had 9 insanities and were playing a protown game than have zero insanities and mess up the town's plans.

[VP Baltar]

how am I hurting your chances to win?

When asked to do something you essentially say 'no, I'll be doing this tonight.' That is why you were taken out of the grave rob plan in the first place and people are ignoring you now. Your eventual actions have been protown, but we have had to argue with you several times along the way, needlessly wasting time that could be focused on better targets. I know you can play better than this so please do.

those are the people who need lynched along with players who have terrible night actions like el goosuki. i have listed 3 people more deserving of a lynch than i. my blood/insanity count can be verified to be pro-town.

I never said a single word about lynching you. This is the kind of drivel I am talking about as well. You feel you are confirmed so it doesn't matter what kind of verbal diarrhea you spew in thread because we aren't going to lynch you. Or that because you're "confirmed" then anyone who disagrees with you must be scummy or out to get you. My point is please think before you talk and take night actions, confirmed people. mmm k?

did you read that xvart stalked me, vp baltar? what are your thoughts on that? what will i flip?

Yes I did actually. I am questioning him over it actually. Try reading the thread before you have your next hissy fit.

[VP Baltar]

Learn what strawmanning is and I'll consider. Also, that's not even how you vote. Try again.

[VP Baltar]

it's also funny xvart/el goosuki targeted each other with their second night actions
im not voting you
i want you to answer how you believe i would flip

I believe you would flip town. Nothing I have said this entire game has indicated otherwise as far as I recall.

[VP Baltar]

Players like VP Baltar would let us slowly rot away as opposed to actually trying to coordinate ways to confirm each other

/wrists

I was a leader in getting the murderer lynched yesterday and have been trying very hard to coordinate the town at night. I came up with the grave robbing plan (which was successful, sans El G). Meanwhile, you stamp your feet because you're stalked. I'm not saying xvart should kill you, but if you actually listened to others instead of posting like you're actually going to die in the next 4 seconds.

[VP Baltar]

I vote we lynch El G today, lynch xvart tomorrow (provided N3 doesn't drastically change things)

Why hello chain lynches. I agree El G has got to go today as a simple result of their claimed failure to actually play the game, but I'm not down for considering xvart's lynch a foregone conclusion, especially when you have people like Spyrex and BS hanging around as well. I take it you believe the Furpants rez story?

re: Furpants rezzing maestro - It is a possibility, but I'm not sure if I entirely believe it. If El G wasn't a necessity lynch today, I'd probably still consider lynching Spyrex.

re: graverob plan - I definitely think SpyreX should be on it and I'm fine with Trilobite and, to a lesser extent, Seacore being there. I've done some thinking about potentially forcing me to grave rob a lot just because I think the cult would potentially leave me alone if I had a shit ton of insanities and couldn't commune or stalk them, but ultimately it might be best to distribute the insanities evenly among town players. I can't really commune tonight because I'm too far ahead in the count atm for most players, so it would probably be worthwhile to establish the new zero around 1 or 2 insanities for people.

re: xvart's kill - I'm comfortably residing in hito's camp. I don't really believe that xvart has the capability of going through with it, but it's ultimately furcolow's decision depending on what he's willing to risk. If xvart had to force the cult to kill furc tonight to save his skin...well I could think of much worse targets for them to off. On the other hand, it's a sticky situation because we can't really afford to stupidly lose an investigator and it's all but certain that Furc is that. It's probably best that he doesn't do it, even if there is a strong chance he couldn't.

You guys need to wake up to who is getting lynched
it has been all town
let me pick a random lynch target and i guarantee i will hit scum

lol. I like you if only for your sheer insanity. Also, we cut the murderer off at the knees yesterday, so it was definitely not a mislynch.

re: claiming night actions - I don't really think everyone should be claiming every night action they take. That's kind of giving the scum the playbook isn't it? I don't really care for you bringing it up Seacore I was starting to trust you a lot more, but that's pretty shady man.

I'll withhold my El G vote until we're all good and ready to end this thing.

--preview--

I will NOT see that same bullshit used to defend someone else. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MURDER, DO NOT STALK. We were "bleeding numbers" when he DECIDED to stalk. So that excuse is utter crap.

This is a pretty fair point by AV, though I would say that he might have thought MoI was cult. I certainly did until the flip this morning. So the exact extent of the bleeding could have been improperly assessed at the time of stalkage.

Why? We've already let Benmage get away with doing exactly that. It's not a leap to assume we'd do it again.

This is true. It'd be a ballsy choice by scum, but we did establish a precedent the day before. Ugh, it's so damn risky if we're wrong though. It won't be the end of the world, but we're going to be getting close too being too tight for comfort if xvart actually is town and kills him.

[VP Baltar]

-If xvart is scum and kills Furc - or if Furc does not die at all - we've gotten confirmed-scum in xvart (and he can be lynched tomorrow).

This isn't unequivocally true unfortunately. Scum could gambit a kill on Furc to set up town xvart potentially. It comes down to how confident you are in your read of xvart scum.

[VP Baltar]

Howso? If Furc res'es, he cannot be saved from death, and so his death flavour would read "murdered" and thus we would know that xvart followed through and was confirmed town.

Yeah, you're correct. NM then. If furc is up for rezzing tonight and risking his life, it's a good plan.

[VP Baltar]

Congrats AV! That's big news.

[VP Baltar]

-If xvart is scum and kills Furc - or if Furc does not die at all - we've gotten confirmed-scum in xvart (and he can be lynched tomorrow).

This isn't unequivocally true unfortunately. Scum could gambit a kill on Furc to set up town xvart potentially. It comes down to how confident you are in your read of xvart scum.

I am 100% certain that he is investigator and is being an idiot and this is the scenario cult want to play out, simply to kill xvart and laugh about it at the same time.

Why do you want to lynch him then? If he's investigator, he simply shouldn't kill you and he shouldn't be lynched for it. End of story.

[VP Baltar]

Vote: El Goosuki

[VP Baltar]

CD4

Username: VP Baltar
Did you Hear Noise? Yes
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? No
List all of the insanities you currently have: Twitchy, Solist
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No
Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No
Are you bloody? No
Twitch? *Twitch*

xvart, why did you follow through on the murder when you strongly implied you were not going to do it unless Furc agreed to the rezz plan?

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Spyrex

totallynotmafia is a buddy for realz.

[VP Baltar]

I could understand if there was something else to the case, but if the whole case on Spyrex is that nobody claimed the rez when it is indeed possible that nobody claimed the rez because the person who did it is now dead, that just seems ludicrous to me.

Do you think it's likely SpyreX was rezzed by Furpants? Additionally, I don't believe that is the entire case on him, but that's a nice over simplification.

I agree with Feysal's to-do list other than testing for voting insanities, as that seems tedious and unnecessary for today since we need to lynch SpyreX today. If someone does have an unclaimed voting insanity, it will still be there tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

Interested in VP's thoughts specifically on this.

Well, I feel that Spyrex is most likely cult, so the speed of the wagon doesn't give me much pause. If you actually look at Furpants' iso, it does seem quite unlikely that he rezzed him. So, my guess over the speed is either a) it's obvious to the town as a whole that Spyrex is scum or b) scum decided to bus.

If spyrex is town, then it's a pretty outside chance and the cult are taking advantage of the situation. I understand your caution to some degree because we haven't hit cult yet, but I would also advise you that speed wagon =/= always on town. I'd point you to invitational 4 from last year where I was scum and was run up in a single page thanks to a case from Ojanen. I was able to slip out of it at that time because my scumbuddies pushed the "speed wagon" argument hard. Sometimes a quick wagon is just a quick wagon, doesn't mean it's wrong.

I would also point out that if El G hadn't added so much WIFOM to the game yesterday, SpyreX would have been one of the most likely to receive the rope. Do you have reservations about it beyond the speed?

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Benmage
Unvote
Vote: hitogoroshi
Unvote
Vote: Benmage
Unvote
Vote: hitogoroshi
Unvote

Vote: SpyreX

I don't have a ton of time right now, but I figured I would throw this out there for now so we can speed this process along.

@TNM - I will respond to your post in full later, but I think the problem is that I see an absence of Furpants liking Spyrex enough to rezz him (not that he outwardly called him scummy, but just didn't say anything all that positive about him) and you see an absence of Furpants hating him (not that he outwardly called him town, but just didn't say anything all that negative about him). I personally think that a player is much more likely to rezz a town read than a null read. That's basically where I'm coming from.

[VP Baltar]

Well, in reality we don't need to be testing voting insanities today anyhow since we're lynching SpyreX, but it doesn't much matter.

[VP Baltar]

Fair enough.

[VP Baltar]

Yo Vas, you seem to have a special relationship with Andy judging by the FWAN thread, in your experience does he typically make bad decisions regarding the setup?

Trilo, I take it you three believe at least somewhat strongly that SpyreX was rezzed by Furpants? Seacore, the same?

[VP Baltar]

That's pretty much what I suspected, but I'd like to hear Trilo and Seacore's response.

[VP Baltar]

My read of Andrius right now is that of stupid town who doesn't read the rules closely. I agree that he's been in the background like you said, but so have many players and I think that's kind of a null tell since both scum and town may be prone to lurk in this setup. This is why I asked someone who knows him well (and who I consider town) if this was the norm for him, which was confirmed. Why are you dismissive of Vas' meta of him? Seems like you're ignoring evidence to fit your view of the situation. It's either that or 1) you don't trust Vas right now or 2) you don't trust Vas' ability to read Andrius. In either of those cases, I think I would like you to explain why.

What is your assessment of SpyreX's play apart from the rezzing issue? Do you feel he's played a pro-town game?

[VP Baltar]

Xvart's list reminds me, what happened to Nico?

This is mainly who I was thinking of when I was talking about others drifting into the background as well. (also, TNM, NPAU, Wraith, etc.)

[VP Baltar]

In fact, I don't want this day to end until Nico comes in here and gives some major game analysis. I'll unvote if necessary.

[VP Baltar]

On the Spyrex front, I'm going to pretty much echo Trilo. I don't feel that an unclaimed rez is a sufficient point to damn him. I'm really not comfortable with TNM (I think it was him) trying to set that up as a default. Make's mislynches too 'automatic' and easy.

It's not the main point though. It's corroborating evidence. It's the nail in the coffin. He tunneled the shit out of AV and didn't do a whole lot else. That's genuinely scummy behavior. It's not a default lynch either. My guess is that if EL G hadn't effed up so bad, SpyreX's lynch would have happened yesterday. So what is the opposition to it today? I don't get it at all. You lynch obv. scum players, not make excuses for them being "easy" targets.

given how wrong I was on the MoI front, (although he wasn't cult, yay me?), I'm willing to be lead.

Lead by who, Trilo? Trilo was right about MoI, but on the other hand, so was I. I have a lot of respect for every player in the Trilo hydra and I'm willing to listen to everything they have to say this game (unless I feel I can't trust them), but I honestly feel they have their blinders on right now because it was a fast wagon. Scum is scum, kill it with fire.

Re: the defence of Andrius, I think meta can be discarded in a game like this. It is too easy for scum to blend in with everybody "not understanding" the game. Particularly when we had people like Furc in it. So just because someone's scum meta is to jump in and get over-involved doesn't mean they'd do it as scum in this game.

Perhaps, but I don't feel it can just be written off as a possibility like that. I think for someone who hasn't played the game before, you have an exceptionally good understanding of the setup. However, I can completely understand a town player making a few mistakes due to misreading the rules or passing something over. It happened to me the last game. It comes down to how meticulous you are. Vas is vouching for Andrius and saying he's not always great with the details. Now, could the scum fake this? Sure, with a little coaching (presuming he still wouldn't understand the rules regardless of alignment). But that doesn't mean it isn't equally or even more likely (given the odds of drawing scum) that he would mess up as town. So, I suppose I can see why you want to call it a null-tell, but even so I'm not sure if I'm willing to dismiss it out of hand as a possibility. I think him messing up as town is certainly more likely than town-SpyreX playing very poorly AND being rezzed by Furpants.

Additionally, that wasn't the only point Vas mentioned. I'm not calling Andrius a solid town read by any stretch of the imagination, but I do trust Vas right now and if his read of the situation is in line with my own, I'm certainly not going to pass over a likely scum in SpyreX for that lynch.

[VP Baltar]

two things are missing from that to do list Triglav. The NoPoint and Nico need to post do the voting test.

And both of them need to contribute some opinions/ or be replaced.

QFT

[VP Baltar]

I checked Nico's iso. His claim of V/LA overnight at least matches with his posting on site. He was gone from Dec. 1 (when night started) until Dec. 5. That being said, he's been back posting since Dec. 5, so it is what it is.

[VP Baltar]

toooo sloooooow

[VP Baltar]

I'm graverobbing?

[VP Baltar]

Oh, there it is. i must have missed that this morning when I skimmed the thread. Cool.

[VP Baltar]

I agree to grave rob.

@Nacho - What is your experience with SAII? Have you read any portion of that game?

@SpyreX - why exactly should we listen to you after you're dead again? Especially when you seem to believe your flip is not going to be revealed like EL G's (which I'm not so certain would be the case considering the cost to scum if you're actually town)?

Do you really think that as a Cult member I would have not thought through claiming a Stalk as Cult and the ramifications of it not going through?

In fairness, this is something I would definitely expect the scum to consider trying. Free insanity is free insanity, especially when we set a precedent for allowing such behavior.

[VP Baltar]

I think the protector only becomes bloody, right? The protected becomes bloody + insane.

[VP Baltar]

VP, opinions on Plum. What do you make of my case on her?

I need to look more closely at it honestly. I've been a little short of time these past few days, so that is probably something (and her rebuttal) that I will look at this weekend.

Also, who do you think should stalk Nico/whoever tonight? (My pick is still on AV btw.)

I think AV looks kind of townish actually, so I'd prefer someone more scummy to do the stalking. Wraith or Nacho perhaps.

[VP Baltar]

So you think because he checked out with zero insanities he's town?

[VP Baltar]

^@Triglav

[VP Baltar]

That seems to be the current state, yes. Though I wish we'd hurry up because this game is dragging very quickly, thus making the scum more comfortable and allowing them to plot night actions.

[VP Baltar]

I don't really get why Feysal or AV are on the stalk list. Also, I don't think Nacho being communed clears him (or even makes him all that much less likely) of being cult. Other than that, the list looks ok to me.

[VP Baltar]

Nacho's slot in addition to being communed claimed the rez on wicked before Feysal.

Well, scum know who they killed. In fact, I would almost expect scum to claim first if they failed at killing. But whatever. I think you need to be looking at play, and as far as I'm concerned, Feysal looks much more protown than Nacho or NPAU ever did.

And VPB/Hito/Sea seeing as you are 3 of the 4/5 stalkers....You guys simply don't have to stalk Feysal or AV, or anyone you dislike on the list.

I realize this, but I'm just voicing dissent because us killing town players is still bad even if we're moving forward with a stalk-murder plan. I hate to vocalize like this because it does point out to the scum who I am more likely to go after, but if our NK plan goes sideways (ie, we hit all town or something) we're going to be in a deep dark place real soon. So, ultimately it is your choice who goes on there, but I am still going to want it to be filled with people I think have a high probability of being scum.

[VP Baltar]

Is Wraith stalking tonight? Also, his call for the hammer before hito finishes the reference is noted. Ben, can you repost the finalized stalk plan, thanks.

[VP Baltar]

Still agree with the plan. Please post the stalk list so there is no confusion about that.

[VP Baltar]

Some of us are going to have to start diving into forbidden insanities soon, myself included. Hito is right that the first one you take from that list should be hallucination. I would also recommend that suicidal is the LAST thing you should consider taking.

[VP Baltar]

^agree with both of these. I will weigh the pros and cons of the insanities. My initial reaction is to say voting insanities should be off limits because they are what screwed us in the last game, but the subject requires more careful thought than that.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, if you're venturing off of the approved insanities, I think the next tier of "just ok" would probably contain things like:

(ii) Hallucination - You always hear Noises each Night regardless of actions taken.
(iii) Compulsion - If you are Bloody, you must Launder.

Worse, but maybe ok still if your beyond like six insanities:

(xii) Mutilation - You always appear Bloody for the purposes of the Investigate action.
(ix) Sadism - You may only place your votes on players who are one or two votes away from a lynch.

Note that we should approve people for Sadism before they take it, because too many people getting it ruins the game for us. One or two players getting MAY be ok for endgame purposes, but we can't have too many people with it around lylo.

[VP Baltar]

Well, really, once someone starts hitting beyond the 7 insanities range, it's trouble in terms of taking more. We're going to get limited then and have to make some tough choices. This could be one potential drawback of the stalk/murder plan if things don't go right in the first couple attempts of it because we may wind up with lots of insanities and dead townies if we're wrong.

I am going to have five insanities by the time my murder completes, so I'm personally starting to get worried about this. In subsequent days we may need to start adjusting how we are engaging in the night plans or at least planning more for possible endgame scenarios.

I'm not sure if I'm cool with lynching Benmage (or another player) because he has suicidal. While it would buy us a lynch, we're spending a mislynch to get it...so there is no real gain from it.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, we're obviously rolling the dice with a stalk/murder plan this early, but I guess we'll see how things turn out. If it goes sideways for us it won't be great, but it wont' be a disaster either.

I'm thinking the same thing about murdering the suicidals. It wouldn't exactly be difficult for cult to mess with that plan either. Which is why it should have been an obvious insanity to avoid in the first place, but I digress.

[VP Baltar]

CD5

Username:

VP Baltar

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, I gained Obsession and Hallucination from graverobbing and stalking.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Solist, Obsession, Hallucination

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

Yes, I stalked Nicodemus. It was not successful.

Twitch?

*Twitch*

Vote: VP Baltar

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

@Plum - I like your new avatar.

Down to business , BS needs to hang. Nicodemus is his cult buddy and needs to hang too. It is clear to me that we either had a lot of cult being stalked (likely) or they blew their night actions fucking with the plan. I want to hear from our other stalkers.

Also, can we please stop fucking up with the insanity infractions people. :-/ Take two seconds to think about what you're writing and double check it. It's getting silly at this point.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, presumably Wraith gained an insanity from stalking last night.

[VP Baltar]

I highly doubt case matters. If it does, then I'm asking for replacement.

[VP Baltar]

Maybe Percy had an oversight and didn't give him an infraction like he's saying? I'm just spitballing here.

[VP Baltar]

See, your problem is that you're trying to reason with cult, AV.

lol, better get that night plan drawn up hito, cause I think it's going to be a short day. I love it when the mafia gods accidentally set the game on easy mode.

I'm cool with restalking tonight as long as someone rezzes me and we lynch Nicodemus in the near future.

[VP Baltar]

lmao...that was so wrong and yet so funny.

Anyhow, let's get the night plan figured out before we lynch the obv. scum plz. This way the scum have time to line up their next obv. scum for the noose too.

[VP Baltar]

So everyone except for me and potentially Wraith stalked Baby Spice?

[VP Baltar]

Anyhow, let's get the night plan figured out before we lynch the obv. scum plz. This way the scum have time to line up their next obv. scum for the noose too.

We're still missing claims from five people today. It could be useful to analyze the data too, I'm seeing something about the noises that could potentially be interesting.

Yeah, that was me saying "people should stop voting Baby Spice for a few seconds so we can get some info out of today"...perhaps I need to be more direct.

[VP Baltar]

Why are we killing Andrius?

[VP Baltar]

Why didn't Andrius just taboo his occult books?

That was Trilo's point yesterday, and I think the conclusion was either scum or idiot. We shall see. I'm interested to know what about Andrius' night claim is piquing Iec's interest though today because I don't recall (though I could be wrong) him saying anything yesterday about the Taboo business. If Andrius is town, seems like breaking his books was a protown move to prevent himself from racking up insanities.

Methinks that all the people who claimed failed stalks need to stalk again, you know, to prove they actually have the ability to stalk and are not just pretending to have failed.

More scum points for this guy! Out of curiosity, who do you think is faking a stalk?

Remaining cults:

Baby Spice
Nicodemus
totallynotmafia
nacho
kunkstar7 (?)
Plum (?)
Andrius (?)
-someone I'm probably overlooking because they appear protown

[VP Baltar]

Do I really need to explain that VP? Seacore and Iecrint could be lying about stalking BS because they already knew hito's stalk on BS failed, and you could be lying about having a failed stalk on Nic. Nothing to worry about if you guys are investigators because all you have to do is stalk again.

Or you're scum trying to force the insanities up on town members and you'll just ward targets tonight to ensure failure. I don't necessarily mind stalking again, but with four insanities already, it's certainly not my preferred night action if scum just decide to ward their members. As far as why I think you're scum, I think you're playing the game from the sidelines just like players like Baby Spice have been.

[VP Baltar]

Mod, I'm going to be V/LA from sometime this afternoon to Dec. 27. Thanks.

I'll try to get some stuff up today before I need to start packing up the sleigh, but I agree with hito that holding off until at least after Christmas is a wise move.

[VP Baltar]

Leaving for my jet plane...but I can't resist asking, seriously Vas? Plum over BS at this point? Not saying Plum is town, but I don't think she looks scummier than BS.

[VP Baltar]

I thought everyone claimed and they all landed on BS and Nico...are we missing someone?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure what you mean Seacore, what do you mean "know how it works"? Like, what happens when you get one?

[VP Baltar]

consider the source

[VP Baltar]

How can you say it is likely that the cult warded everyone stalked when we are only sure about two stalks? In what world does that make sense when there were like 9 people on the stalk list?

[VP Baltar]

We are pretty sure wraith stalked from his unclaimed insanity.

It doesn't matter who he stalked because he's dead now.

gibberish

gibberish

gibberish


none of which is "clear"

[VP Baltar]

Confirmed scum in da hizouse.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote

[VP Baltar]

Wait, I'm not sure I was voting her actually. I may have just had my intent to vote there.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, damn. Someone unvote.