Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[totallynotmafia]

Holy shitballs this game is hectic.

From a very quick read through: as far as worshipping goes I'd be happy to put my worship vote wherever it would be best used as my role is pretty much useless whether my gods have the worship or not, and I think it's probably likely that there are both town and scum linked to each set of gods so I'm not particularly worried about worshipping mine. I am a bit suspicious of some people blindly following ABR like he's the messiah, but at the moment I don't see any harm in his plan. I also agree think it's possible that at least one of the two players joining the game was recruited by scum. Anyway, I need to do a more thorough read tonight.

@Nikanor: Why day 4?

[totallynotmafia]

Urgh, if scum are deliberately convoluting the thread in order to prevent people from reading it thoroughly, then it's working.

It still makes sense to me that at least one of the two players joining the game were recruited by scum...at first I was thinking they may have both been recurited by two different scum groups, but some people seem to think that there is only one group due to certain information they've garnered. Out of the two, Ortolan seems like he was recruited by scum to me. DTMaster has confirmed he was recruited while Ortolan said he thinks being added to the game shouldn't be discussed, and I think if someone was recruited by scum they would be more likely to try and keep it on the down-low. He also was getting quite frustrated at being voted which I find suspicious, and I didn't like how he just said "ABR can lead the town" without actually stating why this was a good idea.

Vote: CMAR

(Ortolan)

Could you please confirm whether or not you were recruited?

That's not to say I'm not suspicious of DTM. I particularly don't like his attack on MO, it was pretty clear that the two posts of MO's that DTM was claiming were backtracking were by the two different people in the hydra so it was misrepresenting in a way, I think most town members would realise that there are going to be some inconsistencies in a hydra regardless of whether they are town or scum. However, I think that town may also have recruited one of the players seeing as some people seem to have their own quicktopics, so perhaps there is some kind of recruiting mason or something and at the moment Ortolan seems scummier to me, particularly because DTM seems to have been very open everything.

Other things I've noticed which I don't like:

@ABR: Why did you say that you didn't need to be targetted by any pro-town forces instead of just saying you didn't need any doc protection? The way you said it seems like you are trying to deter cop investigations and the like as well.

@SK: Why would you vote, unvote, and vote again in the same post? What is the purpose of that?

I also don't like Chronopie thinking that the Egyptian and Norse gods should be worshipped because they are "cool mythologies" (surely we should be much more thoughtful about it than that) and Faraday saying that Plum's vote on herself was distracting, which I don't really understand when because of the voting mechanic it wasn't for herself anyway. Also when someone uses the reason that they find someone's posts to be a bit "off" as a reason to be suspicious of someone I tend to find that a bit "off" myself.

I still have two assignmnents due so I'm going to struggle to find time to post in the next couple of days, but I'll see how I go.

[totallynotmafia]

I am a bit suspicious of some people blindly following ABR like he's the messiah, but at the moment I don't see any harm in his plan.

Um, what? How is your attitude different from most people's? What do you think of ABR's town-leading plan, other than you "don't see any harm in it"?

I don't see the harm in it because as I said I don't particularly want to worship my gods anyway and so if someone has a plan as to where the votes should go I'm happy to follow it for the moment. I think it's safe to at least allow one night to see if ABR can deliver. The bit I'm suspicious of though is people who just go "yeah let's follow ABR" which could be an effort to look town. Most town members would have at least some hesitation in giving someone control in case that person is scum, whereas scum obviously know for sure and can use it to score town points.

@SK: Why would you vote, unvote, and vote again in the same post? What is the purpose of that?

Because the first vote was a joke vote. Near the end of my post I put my vote back on someone I actually thought was scummy.

Ah yeah sorry, just re-read it and realised it was a joke.

@Totally
1. :S I don't like your point about convoluting the game. There are 28 players. If more then half of them are active and each person posts once an hour, thats more then a page per person to post ratio.

2. If you let MO use this argument for himself, then every argument that back fires on MO can be escaped by: MY OTHER HYDRA DID IT. LOOK HE DIDN'T SIGN HIS NAME.

3. Wow.Chrono is scummy how for thinking those factions are cool? You didn't like it apparently. I take it as a weak bread crumb or some guy who's probably not aligned and is random worshipping. Since when did the Norse Gods or the Egyption gods become scummy for you to dislike someone worshiping them.

Like that's totally fucking, crazy and reeks of Paranoia beyond SK's level.

1. It was more just a remark that I'm struggling to read the game thoroughly at the moment because there's so much to read, which is why I said if it's a tactic by scum then it's working on me. I guess I'm just used to mini games where I actually read every post in detail, but it's almost impossible here.

2. Obviously it can't be used as an excuse, but I think when you're dealing with a hydra you've at least got to differentiate between when an inconsistency, backtrack or whatever is the result of actual scummy behaviour or when it's just the nature of two people different people posting under the one account. To me, hydra's seem like easy targets for mislynches for scum because they are much more likely to present these inconsistencies, which was why I didn't like the point you attacked MO on, pouncing on it and saying it was backtracking when the posts were clearly made by two different people, and while it could be possibly scummy, most people would at least see that it could also be the result of a town hydra not working well together.

3. I just found it strange that someone would base who they think should be worshipped on what has the coolest mythology and not on what may possibly benefit the town, I mean, you don't vote for people to be lynched because you don't like them. You don't find that silly at all? I'm not sure if it's scummy but I think it's worth pointing out.

BTW, were you warned for that last fuckless post?

[totallynotmafia]

Ok, before we do anything can we please clarify if spyrex's delerium thingy affects the worship votes?

Otherwise people are either going to end up worshipping the wrong gods or using it as an excuse to worship the wrong gods.

@Totallynotmafia

, you vote Ort for being likely to have been recruited into the game by scum, and you make fair points about that. What do you think of his actual play/stances thus far this game, though?

As I said I don't like the way he reacted to people voting him, but it's mainly because he was keeping quiet about the way he entered the game while DTMaster was open about it. I mean, he even quotes DTM talking about it but all he says is:

Oh yeah last night I recieved a note when I came in. There is a mafia faction, and I highly think it's a single mafia faction and it has a Godfather. Yes I'm claiming role related information nao in Alice in Wonderland Style.

This is also very interesting.

I'm starting to think there are other possibilities as well, but I want to hear from ort first.

[totallynotmafia]

I don't understand what he means by that...so the vote will end up on who we choose to worship anyway?

[totallynotmafia]

Well that's why we need to work it out for sure, otherwise people will vote for Norse and say "Oh I thought it would go two down."

[totallynotmafia]

@totallynotmafia, you've pretty claim affiliation in some way with one of the pantheons. Do you know which players are in that pantheon at this point? I think I should know the answer based on what others are saying about other things but I'd like to have you confirm it.

No, i don't know who else is affiliated with the same gods as me, I just know that if my gods have the worship it affects my role.

[totallynotmafia]

@ People harping on DTM for lack of "Rule Infractions": where in the rules does it state that rule infractions will be publicly noted? Hint: I couldn't find a rule that said that. So cut it out.

Obviously people are dubious about his post restriction and are trying to get to the bottom of it. Considering he originally said part of the post restriction was to insult people (which he hasn't done for a while), and there are no other PRs in the game, I think the suspicion is warranted.

I'm not sure what to think about Iec, it's hard to think that scum would tell everyone they have a QT, and some of the stuff he's been saying about Sky and ABR is a bit farfetched but it seems earnest and as if he's actually trying to get to the bottom of things. I don't usually like saying people are town but I doubt he's scum at this stage.

Parama i think may have given up after being outed by Nik.

CMAR did (at least what I thought was), if not the scummiest, then the most absurd thing ever in Almost No Rules Mafia and he turned out to be town, hence I'm not sure meta is the best thing to use with him, but nevertheless he needs to post ASAP.

Ort if you are town, you could start by coming back and enlightening us as to how you entered the game, not posting at all is just incriminating you further.

[totallynotmafia]

Nik hasn't outed a damn thing. Nik is the hostile 3rd-party here. I haven't given up. You guys are just spamming and it's a waste of my time.

Ah, I just went back and reread, I thought Nik was implying he had an investigation result oh you.

If there is an Ort scum I could swing behind a totallynotmafia lynch in the near future, fyi.

Why?

[totallynotmafia]

FINE IM NOT WORSHIPPING YOUR CRAPPY GOO ANYMORE. MORE LIKE POO.

[totallynotmafia]

Has anyone explicitly defended him yet? You'd think if he was recruited by town whoever recruited him would have come out in his defence by now, and it's pretty obvious he was recruited seeing as DTM was and ort wasn't at the top of the list of replacements.

[totallynotmafia]

Guess i better hope I'm wrong about Ort then.

[totallynotmafia]

Safe til daybreak, yeahyah!

[totallynotmafia]

Hmm...everybody votes CMAR with the intention to lynch Ortolan, the day ends in a no-lynch and CMAR claims to have lost his unlynchability...I wonder if this is all connected or if it is just coincindence. Can't wait to hear from FlipScythe.

I would also like to hear why Snow_bunny shot spyex.

[totallynotmafia]

I worshipped the Egyptian Gods.

The thing that is strangest to me about Snow_Bunny's kill is the fact that she claimed it. I've never played as a vig before but I thought that being a vig is something you'd want to keep to yourself to avoid being NKed, so why did you claim it so early SB?

[totallynotmafia]

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

If we do need to get rid of people in limbo then we should have Snow_Bunny kill them. I think there's a good chance SB is the SK, as in response to what Fate said I think that claiming the shot actually makes you

more

of an SK, given that a vig would be worried about being Nked, but SK's are often bulletproof hence why I think an SK is more likely to claim vig than an actual vig this early in the game because they know they are safe at night, and I don't really buy SB's answer that she would rather be NKed than other possibly better players.

Regardless of whether she is SK I think we can utilise her NK, and shooting Mina tonight to figure out what is going on with limbo is probably a good way to start.

[totallynotmafia]

Hang on...

The bad news is that we are dealing with a cult. A "modified cult", to be specific; whatever that means. I suspect this cult is what Spyrex called the Endless.

And it appears that they have recruited last night because there are now 4 neutrals in the game.

There are 15 town, 4 neutrals and 6 scum in this game. Among these players currently in the game, there are 5 alignments in total. That means that besides the town and the mafia, we are dealing with a modified lyncher (likely Tar and DTM), the aforementioned modified cult, and a "modified survivor".

The good news is that if there are only 4 neutrals at the moment, the cult didn't succeed in recruiting anyone yesterday if you do the math.

I know you crossed that bit out after but when you say "there are now..." does that mean you knew what the setup was N1? If that's the case can't you then work out the allignments of those who are dead?

[totallynotmafia]

Damnit, I thought I read that players in limbo could be targetted by actions. Oh well, I think we can still utilise SB's NK to our advantage.

@MO: Is Mina confirmed town to you in any way?

[totallynotmafia]

Ouch, why?

[totallynotmafia]

Uhh...don't scum already know if MO is town? And once again I doubt if they were both scum that they would let it known they have a QT, but it's possible they aren't of the same allignment. It's just hard to believe that all these people with QTs are town, though I suppose we already know that's not the case with Tar's QT, and with Sky in your one.

[totallynotmafia]

@DTM: What is VI?

[totallynotmafia]

lol, thanks DTM.

Plum, I've already said that I think it's quite likely that Snow_Bunny is a SK as I don't believe a vig would out themselves like that so early through fear of being NKed, but a bulletproof SK obviously wouldn't be worried about that and may want to set up a vig claim early. It is still a bad move by an SK to claim the kill so early as well I guess, but I think we can direct SB's kill for the moment and deal with whether she is a vig or an SK later.

I think it's interesting what DarkStalker said about a zombie cult, that would be a cool game mechanic if Chrono was a cult recruiter and recruits people from the graveyard.

[totallynotmafia]

lol, thanks DTM.

Plum, I've already said that I think it's quite likely that Snow_Bunny is a SK as I don't believe a vig would out themselves like that so early through fear of being NKed, but a bulletproof SK obviously wouldn't be worried about that and may want to set up a vig claim early. It is still a bad move by an SK to claim the kill so early as well I guess, but I think we can direct SB's kill for the moment and deal with whether she is a vig or an SK later.

I think it's interesting what DarkStalker said about a zombie cult, that would be a cool game mechanic if Chrono was a cult recruiter and recruits people from the graveyard.

Just a quick comment: if you don't think a vig would out themselves like that, what makes you think a SK would when there's so much at stake? I mean, the SK is usually alone, meaning that he can't risk being lynched, unlike townies. Well, I mean, if we put it in a balance, it's far more riskier for a SK to get attention than for a townie. Just saying, your reasoning sounds totally off. If you want to be suspicious of me because I shot Spyrex, then go ahead. But saying that you are suspicious of me because I outed myself like that is just plain forced.

You know I said this in the very post you quoted:

It is still a bad move by an SK to claim the kill so early as well I guess, but I think we can direct SB's kill for the moment and deal with whether she is a vig or an SK later.

Yeah it would be pretty silly for an SK to claim so early, but who knows that's why you may have done it so you could use that as a defence and to set up the vig claim early in case you are tracked. I disagree with you and think the fact you claimed so early is way more telling than the fact you shot Spyrex. If you are indeed an SK then you would be trying to act in the same way as town would, and so whether you are a vig or an SK there is going to be a legitimate pro-town reason for shooting Spyrex, so it's harder to determine anything from that. The fact you claimed the kill early however is much more telling because as a bulletproof SK trying to set-up an early vig claim you would not be worried about being NKed, and this is where the slip-up in trying to act town comes, because an actual vig would be worried about being NKed and thus would be much less likely to out themselves so early when there is absolutely no call for a claim. In this way it is much more telling because in trying to set up an early vig claim as an SK you would have failed to emulate the fear of a town power role being NKed as obviously you wouldn't be thinking about this.

Anyway it seems that from ABR's info it's impossible there's an SK so I guess this is all pointless now, although I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of an SK being immune to ABR's results.

I'll get to others when I have more time later.

[totallynotmafia]

Sorry guys our internet at home is broken so i may not be able to post for the next couple of days.

[totallynotmafia]

So that's what happens when you don't pay your phone bill...

Got the internet back at home so I should be good now, I did manage to send in my worship vote last night too (for JC).

I was kind of expecting to be "vigged" last night as there seems to be a lot of suspicion on me but I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. I put vigged in quotation marks because Snow_Bunny being redirected to the same person she targetted seems like a massive coincidence, and I know ABR's results are supposed to have confirmed her as town but I still don't completely buy it. I've lost a lot of faith in ABR too, he hasn't contributed much to scumhunting of late and I'd expect a townie with his role to scumhunt as well as give his results, whereas scum with his role would be happy to just post their results and coast through acting like they're being a massive help to town, and that coupled with the "no townies target me" makes me feel iffy about him. I think this is why mass-claiming may be a good idea, as we might be able to better confirm his and others allignments given their full role claims. Also a lot of people seem to have claimed anyway and I don't doubt that scum are probably keeping better track of these claims than town are so it might be good to clear up a lot of confusion.

Here's the quote Faraday was talking about:

Percy lists his top post-read suspects as MO, TNM, and raj. He's not sure about ABR. He's also not sure about ABR, but he's happy I made a suspect list based on posting times.

I would expect that kind of weak distancing in a newbie game but I'm not so sure here, assuming Percy was the godfather I doubt he would be dumb enough to do the old "list three suspicions and make one of them your scumbuddy" thing, so I'd lean more towards that statement being an attempt to fake-distance against three townies. I could be wrong though, and I guess it was posted in a QT rather than in the thread, so i'm going to do a re-read of MO and raj just in case. Zorblag worries me because of how verbose and helpful (or at least seemingly helpful) he is being, which is exactly how he was in my newbie game when he was scum, I'm going to have to check how he plays as town to make sure it's the same.

Darkstalker, I'm glad you quoted that post as I was going to do it myself (and I'll do it anyway):

And instead of waiting like a real scumhunter should to see if their speculations are legit and not just possibilities, you imediatly jump on the band wagon assuming all your ideas are true without any detailed hunting or disproving of ani. Ani likly missed ABR's census as did Plum early on since she also speculates that Mina is a recruit.

Also TNM looking at your logic, considering your last paragraph where you suggest directing the vig at Mina, you could be accused of coming up with a way to waste a vigging disguised as an information method. BUT unlike you I have actual non speculative reasoning backing this comment. And that is, assuming one can eventually leave limbo , would it not be better to wait for mina to come out of Limbo and ask her What's up? That would likly give more info then just killing her. Killing her could give us nothing or stop a cult by ani's logic. Killing her does nothing to help you get info. There I have proven your case flawed and your actions hypocritical and thus scummy. If ani does not come back And TNM can't make an adequate response to these comments i think I will vote TNM.

This is the strangest argument ever, because what you are accusing me of doing is precisely what Ani did. You're really acting quite strangely as a hydra, you come in and defend Ani by pleading ignorance and then attack me for wanting to kill the person in limbo when Ani wanted to lynch them, it's almost as if you're chainsaw defending yourself, and hypocritically at that. I was mainly suggesting that "vigging" the person in limbo is a far better option than lynching them as Ani proposed, as I didn't expect people to come out of limbo back into the game.

I really don't like your last line either, why do you have to state that you think you will vote for me? It seems like you're trying a bit too hard to justify your vote in advance, as no matter what I say you could say it isn't adequate and vote for me, and I think scum are much more likely to act in this way than town.

Vote: Darkstalker

[totallynotmafia]

Yeah i hope it's wrong too...

@MO: No, I don't have the hammer, what makes you think that I should? Also, if you had your way, would you want us to mass claim today?

[totallynotmafia]

What strikes me about the CMAR wagon is that nobody voting for him has mentioned the fact that the universal roleblock has probably temporarily disabled his unlynchability and unkillability. If CMAR is town with these powers that he claims, then today may be scum's only opportunity to get rid of a powerful town player.

Of course if CMAR is scum then it's our opportunity to lynch him today, but as I said I'm surprised nobody who has voted him has said this yet.

I think CMAR needs to fullclaim. If his claim doesn't fit with an unlynchable, unkillable townie then we lynch him today. If, however, it makes sense for him to be a townie with those powers then I'd be suspicious of those starting the wagon on him.

@MO: Do you think that the universal roleblock will stop scum's nightkill?

For the record I have in no way claimed I'm a god of any kind, it's just that I know which pantheon is affiliated with my role (I assumed everybody was associated with one).

[totallynotmafia]

Well if scum were still able to submit a NK then mass claiming today would be a terrible idea, seeing as they would get a free pot-shot at the best town power role without having to worry about doctor protects.

Lottery: Stillsuit

[totallynotmafia]

Alot of content on pages 77-78. Here's stuff I promised. I'll read page 79 soon.
Ok I don't think TNM actually understands my case against him so let's try this again

Ani said he wanted Mina gone because he thought she could be cult becuase Ani was suspicious of what limbo was, and And obviously didn't see ABR's census result. You mentioned the option of Mina getting vidged instead

If we do need to get rid of people in limbo then we should have Snow_Bunny kill them.
...
Regardless of whether she is SK I think we can utilise her NK, and

shooting Mina tonight to figure out what is going on with limbo is probably a good way to start.

1. From that last part you obviously did more than just suggest she should be vidged. You advocated it as a way to get info. How would killing her get us more info over letting her live and possibly to tell us about limbo later?

2. I know ani didn't suggest doing it for info but, do you think its more likly vidging her would get more info than starting a wagon on her and seeing what turned up?

Further you stated why offing mina "could" be advantageous to scum.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

You didn't prove that was why Ani really wanted her gone.

3. Couldn't mafia asking for a vidge on Mina also be a means Mafia could get rid of her advantageously?

You never disproved Ani's idea mina was cult especially since you said killing Mina was a good.

4. Thus you are hypocritical in that you want to go after us for going after mina and yet at the same time you wanted to get rid of mina yourself. Your case is flawed because what's to say you aren't the one who wants to off mina with bad/mafia intentions?

That is my case on you. Please answer the questions I have underlined!

1. I didn't expect people in limbo to come back into the game, I thought people would continue to be put there and would have some secret influence over the game. Especially considering it says they still affect win conditions I thought it would be dangerous to allow people to continue to build up in there without knowing what was going on, so i thought this would be a good way to direct a potential SK's NK (although I misread it and people in limbo can't be targetted by actions anyway).

2-4. I'll answer these as one because I think you're missing my point entirely. My problem was not that Ani wanted to get rid of Mina, it's that

he was prepared to waste a lynch on him/her in order to do so.

It's got nothing to do with getting rid of Mina advantageously, it's the point of wasting a lynch on someone who is basically treestumped and who I at least assumed wasn't going to come out of it. I find it even more suspicious considering I had just finished playing a game with Ani which we lost as town, and part of it was because we wasted a lynch on a treestumped player.

Maybe it was a legitimate error in judgement on Ani's part (though as I said, I would have expected him to learn his lesson about wasting a lynch from our last game), but your strange defence of your own hydra partner is continuing to look more and more suspicious. Why are you defending Ani's actions instead of Ani himself? I know you're a hydra but if you're going to operate as two different people then each should be able to defend their own actions.

[totallynotmafia]

Ah...I was wondering why the hell a doc protect would be called possession...

Rolename: Minnie Montgomery
God\Mortal: Mortal, my spirit companion is Gabriel.
Any Worship Modifiers: None
Worship vote N1: Egyptian
Worship vote N2: JC Angels
Faction (if any): Ex-Laws (JC angels)
Ability: Doc protect (possession)
N1 target: Katy, with the intention to protect Percy
N2 target: Parama
Ability (if your faction gets worship votes): Jailkeep ability (oversoul)

I thought I made it way too obvious I had a PR when I said my role was useless no matter who had the vote but apparently not. I was actually thinking that if there were other Ex-Laws they may be scum because from looking at the wiki page of Shaman King, Ex-Laws are the bad guys, which was part of the reason I was reluctant to worship JC (the other being I wasn't sure if jailkeep was better than doc), but the godfather was ODIN and and I really doubt those who have claimed Ex-Laws before me would have done so if they were scum.

I protected Percy because he was pretty much under the radar and somebody (I thought it was Spyrex but I can't find it anymore, I'll have to go back and check in case it was someone else calling the godfather town) said they were sure he was town so i thought he might be a target for scum. The funny thing is I almost protected him again last night (or his replacement) because that was when my internet at home was down and I only had about 10 minutes to submit the night choice, but because I hadn't had a chance to read the replacement properly I just went quickly through to find someone who had claimed a town PR and so protected Parama. I don't know for sure that that's where the Mafia's NK went but for me at least it puts the chance of Parama being town up a fair bit.

I find Fate's claim pretty dubious, as well as ABR's reason for asking for no pro-town people targetting him. Anyway, I want to hear everybody's claim first.

[totallynotmafia]

1. Oh okay, I've never heard of the show before but from what I read I thought they were villains.
2. He wasn't really lurking because he had posted quite a lot of content in his few posts, it was more that he was flying under the radar, as in there wasn't really any suspicion on him, and I think scum are more likely to choose these people.
3. Well there are only so many ways the mafia kill could have been blocked, mine being one of them, and I doubt mafia would try to kill one of their own, hence it makes it more likely Parama is town.

[totallynotmafia]

EBWOP: A greater CHANCE that Parama is town I mean

[totallynotmafia]

Well it doesn't say anything about being a mortal in my role PM I just assumed from the character. There's also no mention of JCA or that JCA's worship affects the change between possession and oversoul, I assumed this at first from the spirit companion Gabriel, but it was later confirmed to me by the mod anyway when i asked him about the abilities.

[totallynotmafia]

Yeah I don't know I've never seen the show and it doesn't really make much difference, but Gabriel is a Judea-Christian Angel not Minnie Montgomery so I assumed that's where the worship ability came from.

[totallynotmafia]

Been busy with assignments but am finished now so I'll post sometime later today

[totallynotmafia]

DarkStalker, the information i was talking about was finding out what was going on in limbo, which is completely different from getting info from bandwagons (it's starting to look like you're using anything to defend Ani's actions and to counter-attack me as i don't see what this has to do with the original argument). My only worry was that Mina could be scum and seeing as people in limbo could still affect win conditions that would be dangerous for us to just leave her in there the entire game (as I said, I didn't think people would be able to come out of LyLo back into the game). Because I thought it was an SK's kill we would be directing and not a vig's, I didn't see this as a waste at all. The game I was talking about was Almost No Rules Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=13693

Anyway, my vote is staying on you because of your claim. Your two abilites seem like they're more likely to be scum abilities to me. The cuckoo ability is taking away somebodies abilities until they're dead and then replaced, which I believe you may have left something out of and tried to give it a pro-town spin (ie the replaced person may come back as mafia). The Corithian (is it supposed to be corinthian?) ability is taking away somebodies vote which I see as very likely for scum to have. Also, as somebody else said and I was thinking myself, it's a bit hard to believe all these neighbourizes are town, so I believe you may be the scum neighbourizer. You also put "town" as your answer to faction, do you actually think that was what that question was asking for?

Could the people who think I'm scum please state their reasons for thinking this? I mean, I get why scum would want to lynch the doc, and I wouldn't be surprised if i stopped their kill last night and they're pissed off about it, but town people really need to start giving reasons and putting up cases as to why people should be lynched, otherwise scum can just get away with posting "Baaa" or something equally void of any reasoning and thus not be held accountable later.

I have more to say about others claims as well as items, I'll get to that when I have more time later.

[totallynotmafia]

tnm, I'm voting you because you claimed doctor who protected the mafia godfather. That might be acceptable if he was active or whatever, but he posted fuck all on day one, and I don't buy your excuse that you thought he was a power role.

I didn't say I thought he was a power role, I said I thought he was somebody that scum would target because of the fact that there was pretty much no suspicion on him and he hadn't really given out any suspicions of his own, not to mention that he seemed like an intelligent player. The fact that he died last night should at least show that I'm not a scum doctor, because with people out to get the GF and who would be removed from the game if they failed, it would be stupid to protect anyone else but the GF. Also it would be pretty unbalanced and unfair to Tar's role if scum had a doctor, seeing as he only has three days to acheive his goal. I think you may be taking advantage of the fact that I protected the GF in order to try and get the doc lynched.

FOS: Nikanor

As well as just generally being suspicious of Fate and his miller claim, another claim that strikes me as suspicious is Faraday's. It's possible he may have claimed that 1-shot vig because he knew it was safe to say he used it on xite after xite's claim.

I'm also still suspicious of ABR, namely because the earlier answer of "you don't want to know" as to why no pro-town roles should target him doesn't really fit with him being a miller, I mean, I don't see the downside to knowing he was a miller earlier and in fact it probably would have been beneficial to know he was a miller in advance. However, there is a way we can confirm ABR, which is as long as we don't worship Norse again, tomorrow he can use his ability to bring someone into the game and seeing as they will have the same allignment as him, we can either NK the newcomer straight away via S_B and thus determine ABR's allignment or alternitavely just wait to see if that happens naturally down the track. ABR, if you weren't already planning to do it, do you agree that using that ability tomorrow would be ideal?

It's interesting that ABR benefits when Norse don't have the vote and Iecrint benefits when they do, though i'm not sure if this means they are likely to be of opposing factions or if they may actually be on the same side and it's just a balance thing. ABR and Iec, what do you guys think?

[totallynotmafia]

I actually considered protecting Spyrex until all that weird-arse "TNM is scum can you feel it?" shit he was going on with at the end of day 1 (which in a way I was thankful for as I wanted a bit of suspicion on me to help protect me from the NK). I didn't really give MO any thought, though as I've already said I've played with Zorblag before and he came across as extremely pro-town in that game when he was actually scum. In the end I thought that scum are more likely to target someone who has been under the radar. It wasn't until day 2 that I realised I probably could have protected myself by targetting the person two spots above me, and I probably would have just done that if I had thought of it the previous night.

[totallynotmafia]

Fate, I never said I was worshipping the Egyptians, so i don't know why you targetted me.

[totallynotmafia]

I actually considered protecting Spyrex until all that weird-arse "TNM is scum can you feel it?" shit he was going on with at the end of day 1 (which in a way I was thankful for as I wanted a bit of suspicion on me to help protect me from the NK). I didn't really give MO any thought, though as I've already said I've played with Zorblag before and he came across as extremely pro-town in that game when he was actually scum. In the end I thought that scum are more likely to target someone who has been under the radar. It wasn't until day 2 that I realised I probably could have protected myself by targetting the person two spots above me, and I probably would have just done that if I had thought of it the previous night.

You considered SpyreX until he called you suspicious?

No, I said it was the weird-arse way he went about it, not to mention he was calling for me to be vigged. Kind of hard to protect somebody after they do that.

@xite: for your first, see above; for your second, no I didn't protect MO, I protected Percy; for your third, I believe if I had have thought of it that protecting myself would have by far been the best option no matter how safe I felt with the level of suspicion on me, as I would have beeen protecting the only PR I knew of, myself (which I guess is why doctor's generally can't self-protect).

[totallynotmafia]

Vote: Nikanor

Really beginning to think he/she is trying to take advantage of the fact I protected the GF night 1. Not that I blame him/her, if I was scum and losing as badly as they are I'd probably want to lynch the doctor too. Apparently the fact I protected a claimed investigative role night 2 and there was no scum kill means nothing.

[totallynotmafia]

If anything I've been saying lynch me and you'll be happy, as up until now I've been thinking that at least some of the people suspecting me are most likely scum trying to take advantage of the fact I protected the godfather night 1. I mean really, that would just be too good for scum to pass up.

[totallynotmafia]

Ohhhhh.....I just assumed that the "grant item" ability linked to the focus item was a daybreak action, but after the interaction between MO and Parama I checked with the mod and it is indeed a rapid action, hence I can give my item to somebody to at least prove I am a doctor/jailkeeper.

So, who wants it? This aint Christmas though, you have to give it back!

Actually, I'm kind of surprised MO didn't ask for mine either...why was that MO?

[totallynotmafia]

Just gave you my item ooba.

Been happy with a Darkstalker lynch for a while.

Unvote, Vote:Darkstalker

Still want to hear Zorblag's answer to my earlier question.

[totallynotmafia]

Who is this Cthulhu that DS mentioned...is that the first time it has been mentioned in the whole game?

[totallynotmafia]

So why was he saying he could prove he wasn't Cthulhu....was it even suggested by anyone earlier?

Also S_B, now that my role has been confirmed I'm pretty sure I'm on scums NK list, so I'd prefer if you didn't make their job easier for them. Like I said before, it doesn't make sense for scum to have a doc given Tar's role, which is why I think VV must also be town, unless she is lying about her role.

[totallynotmafia]

@Nikanor: Could you give me a QT with Ooba tonight?

[totallynotmafia]

Vote: Darkstalker

I'd be surprised at this stage if Fate was town. Besides the slip, that jokingly acting scummy thing he has kept up for most of the game is counterproductive for a townie to do but I can see it as a kind of defence mechanism for scum. I think it's pretty funny too that Faraday has suddenly decided to jump on the wagon for DS once it's inevitable. I guess my lynch isn't so important now I'm just a VT.

[totallynotmafia]

Well if you're town I think it's pretty silly just to vote for someone because they're going to be lynched, you should at least stand by your convictions.

[totallynotmafia]

Why? lol.

Because you're basically saying "Well I think this person is scummy but instead of trying to win the game by lynching who I think is scum I'll just vote for this other person to make them die quicker." Like I said, it would have been alright if you had actually suspected Darkstalker earlier rather than just hopping on the wagon when everyone else is doing it. What are your reasons for thinking Darkstalker is scum?

[totallynotmafia]

Ooba, I can see that kind of thinking if you're in a game where deadline is approaching and you join a wagon to avoid a no-lynch, but other than that I reckon it's silly to speed someone's lynch for any other reason than you're sure they'll flip scum.

[totallynotmafia]

My point is that when you go:

TNM is scum
TNM is scum
TNM is scum
TNM is scum
TNM is scum but fuck it I agree with the DS lynch, vote: DS

Then, while I concede that it's possible it may be town trying to speed up the inevitable lynch as you say, do I really have to point out the scum motive for acting in this way, especially in the case that Darkstalker is scum too?

[totallynotmafia]

Let's see...how about after failing to get a lynch on me you realise it's probably a good idea to jump on your scumbuddy's lynch to avoid later suspicion? And yes, I'm srs.

[totallynotmafia]

Okay, you've totally convinced me, from now on I'll only suspect people who give strong cases for who they're voting for, surely

they're

the opportunistic voting scum.

[totallynotmafia]

lol

ps, while I remember, who are we woshipping tonight?

[totallynotmafia]

I don't get what you mean by that worship plan and how come I'm not on it?

[totallynotmafia]

@Nik, if that other QT you were going to do isn't important, I think it would be helpful if I could talk to ooba in private tonight.

[totallynotmafia]

Sorry guys, had a major assignment to finish.

I worshipped JCA, and I was just beginning to like the idea of the jailkeep ability too. Bastards.

FOS: Nikanor

For possibly trying to take the doc protect out of town hands under the disguise of wanting to take a look at the item.

Vote: Farady

Given yesterday's play and Darkstalker's flip. Also ort/LMP didn't survive that vig, so I think Faraday may have lied about his 1-shot vig ability, thinking it was a good claim at the time.

@Ooba, why did you portect Faraday?

[totallynotmafia]

Why is Faraday confirmed?

[totallynotmafia]

Didn't someone else direct SB as well? We really need to compile a list of all the night actions we know of so far. And by we I mean you.

[totallynotmafia]

@Albatross: why did you give your item to Faraday?

[totallynotmafia]

Faraday, I'm not stalking you. I'm tunnelling you, there's a difference.

Vote: Farady

Given yesterday's play and Darkstalker's flip. Also ort/LMP didn't survive that vig, so I think Faraday may have lied about his 1-shot vig ability, thinking it was a good claim at the time.

i don't even understand what this means. :/ but i'm lacking sleep. but still what?

You claimed 1-shot vig on ort after his replacement claimed that he was unNKable, so if you are scum you knew it was a good PR safe-claim. Don't you think it's strange that he was now successfully vigged?

Sorry if I missed it, but why did you think Percy/inhim was scum?

[totallynotmafia]

Maybe Faraday is a mafia usurper and getting the item off of Albatross made his job a million times easier. I still want to know why Albatross gave up his item to begin with, I don't see the pro-town motivation for giving your item away except to confirm your role.

[totallynotmafia]

hers my drunk questions:

@Faraday: could you plz give your item to somebody else=, pretty plz???
@ dramonic: hnow much cultists could a cult leader recruit if a cult leader could recruit cultistys?
@Fate: RARAR RAARR RARRR RARR ACT SCUMMY RARRR RARR!???
@obba: could yuo please tell faraday to give his item to somebody else? pretty plzz??? (he wont listen to me)@
@Mighty orbosts: so whats your M.O.?? get it???
@Parama: remember that time we were scum budiies?? if you're scum you should tell me i promise i wont tell anyonme!!!!
@vasudave: what happened to the "i can take anyone i want to lylo"??? havent heard u say anyiothing more on that, HMMM???
@Nikanor: werent you supposed to be voting for parama today??? thats right, im like an elaphant, i gestate for 22 months!!!!
@ MinaL how do you solve a problem like

Maria

Mina
@Katy: ill be honest I havent read any of your posts so i dont have a questison
@Tarhurlinder: dude, wheres my tar?? no seriously isnt that just a big coincidence that the GF happened to die?? i would vig you if i could. and by vig I mean sex.
@albatross: so why did you give up your item??? HMMM???
\@Icerint: asl?
@DTMastter: Fuck? srs. so why arebnt you swearing anyomore?????

:Mod: does my butt look big in this??

[totallynotmafia]

cos at this point im not entirely sure if youre scum or not, but id feelsafer if you gave your item to somebody else....anyone i dont care who

ps who the eff is frayed???

[totallynotmafia]

I'm willing to change my vote too to prevent a no lynch.

[totallynotmafia]

Unvote, Vote: Dramonic

I don't have time to re-read at the moment because of another assignment I have due but a lynch is better than no lynch. Can we please finally worship JCA tonight?

[totallynotmafia]

Unvote, Vote: Dramonic

[totallynotmafia]

Ugh, I bet if somebody flakes and JCA doesn't get the majority we still wont be able to work out who it was, I'm beginning to think these worship plans are just a clever way to stop JCA getting the majority. Why can't we all just worship JCA so I can get the jailkeep ability and I can try to

stop the cult leader from recruiting???

If Ooba was the cult leader his witch-hunt for the cult leader would be a perfect way to divert any suspicion on himself, not that I've actually seen any scummy behaviour from him but I'm gonna do a thorough ISO of him later because I must admit I've only skimmed most of his analysis.

Also, I keep forgetting to say that back when I was asking Nik for a QT with Ooba I thought that if Nik was scum he might be able to spy in on the QTs and then the next day Nik said that he could actually read them which made me think he may be scum (although of course there's the question as to whether or not he would actually reveal this detail if he were scum), but I'm not sure if there are actually any scum left. Of course it's possible there are scum left though - if ABR was town then there's one left, and if ABR was scum then it's possible he lied about how many scum there are.

[totallynotmafia]

Also, forgot to mention, if Snow_Bunny being mafia means that scum had two NKs then that explains why there may be an inordinate number of protective roles on the town side, which leads me to believe that VV is town (or at least began the game as town).

[totallynotmafia]

vla until 9th August

[totallynotmafia]

I'm probably gonna worship JCA instead of GOO because we could really benefit from JCA's worship tomorrow.

[totallynotmafia]

Yeah I worshipped JCA because I didn't want a repeat of yesterday, the fact that scum/cult/whoever flaked on the vote yesterday in order to prevent JCA getting the worship majority shows that they clearly don't want JCA to get it, so making sure JCA get the worship majority is much more important than risking it with these worship plans imho.

[totallynotmafia]

Lottery: Inanimate carbon rod.

[totallynotmafia]

@totallynotmafia, do you have a choice about which ability to use tonight? If you're at all unsure please check with the mod before answering.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Oversoul abilities overide possesion abilities while they are active, so I would have to use jailkeep tonight...what makes you think I have the item though?

[totallynotmafia]

ooba passed my item to Nik yesterday. Don't you think jailkeep would be better than doctor protect at this stage as I could possibly stop the CL from recruiting?

[totallynotmafia]

DRUNK @ 10:20? lol

Your point being?

I still haven't heard anything from the mod about the item so I don't know what's happened there. I asked for it in the QT with Iec to have as few people know that I would have it back as possible, but I guess I didn't expect that to last too long anyway.

[totallynotmafia]

Nah that's okay, I meant people would eventually ask about it so I'd have to tell them anyway.

[totallynotmafia]

Geez, some people just have no respect for other people's property. I DISTINCTLY remember my item having an oversoul ability before I lent it out; so ooba, Nikanor: care to explain why it is now crossed out?!?!? I was so looking forward to jailkeeping somebody tonight too. Bastards. You absolute bastards. This is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, yeah, anyone else have their oversoul ability locked out?

DRUNK @ 10:20? lol

Your point being?

THAT I WASN'T FUCKING DRUNK. ARE YOU DENSE?

I think you missed the point of my joke...or maybe you didn't...

[totallynotmafia]

lol, I can't believe you guys stalked Faraday like that.

@MO, The ex-laws ability is passive, it means I get all the benefits that come with being an ex-law, which I'm guessing is the JCA worship, the other JCA members should have it as well.

I'd rather not say what I did last night until others have posted first.

[totallynotmafia]

Lottery: Spear

Nik were you able to use your ability last night?

[totallynotmafia]

btw has anyone claimed responsibility for the lottery yet?

[totallynotmafia]

You're right, I was thinking it can't have been because I couldn't JK the first time there was a lottery but that was when there was the massive RB. I wonder what all the sun business is then...

[totallynotmafia]

ebwop: I'm sure it's got something to do with shaman king

[totallynotmafia]

Finally...my first ever win! Probably the most accurate I've been with scumhunting thus far although I'm pretty embarrassed I protected the GF N1, though I think I made up for that with saving Parama N2. I was definately out of my element as far as keeping up with everything going on in the game, so in the end I was just glad to be on the same side as MO and ooba. Thanks kinetic for running a great game and giving me my first PR after an annoyingly long run of getting VTs (even though it didn't take me that long to give it away, if I've learnt anything in this game it's that I don't mind being VT).