Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Albatross]

Hi.

[Albatross]

There are more words in this thread than a medium length novel. Synopsis of events please?

[Albatross]

K.

vote:CMAR

Spyrex, do you know exactly what the benefit would be for people worshiping the Old Gods? (I don't need to know what it is, just if you know it.)

[Albatross]

Forget that question. I am dumb.

[Albatross]

I would also prefer if people don't worship the judea-christians.

[Albatross]

Oh no! I feel so threatened!
inb4someseriousshittyassplayercomesinandruinsallthefun

You rang?

Vote: CryMeARiver

Question to DTMaster and Ortolan: do you know why were you both added to the game? Were you recruited by a specific faction?

Fun killer

Everyone knows you're either Cult, Doc, or Mafia Strongman, just give it up

This sounds like HEY GUYS WANNA RIDE BIKES! to me.

Basically what I am saying is that Iec is talking out of his ass with his CMAR meta. I've played with him before too and he hasn't deviated from his meta as much as Iec is making it out to be. He's just fallen behind.

[Albatross]

I'm not going to out my main just to make such a minor point, but go and read the first page of PYPII and compare it to his play on the first page here. It's exactly the same. And thats all you got, cause he hasn't posted after that.

This game he is more like this.

I'd like to see you actually justify this interpretation in any sort of way. Quotes. Post numbers. He has 13 posts, 9 of which are jokey votes from the first day of the game, and the other 4 are posts acknowledging that he is behind.

You keep making blanket statements about CMAR's style, but you have no justification to make those generalizations about his play this game.

[Albatross]

Pick your Power III not II, that was a typo.

I still see no justification for his posts being

deliberately

content less, which would be the crux of your argument. You also conveniently ignore that those "content-less" posts all came in the first 3 pages of the game when players like CMAR rarely take the game seriously.

I don't believe you actually believe what you are arguing. Even if your argument was coherent, it is too weak for you to realistically make such a massive deal over. I think you are just desperately trying to justify staying off of the Ortolan wagon so you make up this BS argument about CMAR's meta. It makes me wonder if you are scum who wants to stay off of a mislynch, cause I am pretty sure any scumbuddy of Ort would be bussing him right now if he is scum.

Fate, can we lynch Iec instead? How sure are you on Ort?

[Albatross]

EBWOP: Although, I just realized that all of CMAR's pre-"I will catch up" posts are on the first day the thread was open. So. Hmm.

Well, I'll wait for his comeback post.

He has 13 posts,

9 of which are jokey votes from the first day of the game,

and the other 4 are posts acknowledging that he is behind.

You also conveniently ignore that those "content-less" posts all came in the first 3 pages of the game when players like CMAR rarely take the game seriously.

Holy crap I forgot CMAR was in this game. Quick look at him shows lots of action on the first RL day of the game, and almost none (except a worship vote) after that. However, I can sympathize with having to catch up to all this, so I won't sling him for now.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing another place where someone said this.

:/

[Albatross]

If you want to keep your main hidden you need to actually attempt to hide your meta when you post *facepalm*

I won't say anymore though out of fellow-alt respect.

Lol, you've already misguessed my main once, but whatevs.

Fine, we'll lynch Otrolan, but if he flips town THEN IEC GETS A SHINY NEW PAIR OF CEMENT SHOES! (Zomg lining up lynches.

fos: Albatross

)

[Albatross]

Not Voting: 2

Who are these people and why haven't they been shot?

[Albatross]

No seriously. Who are the two players that aren't voting on page 32 of day 1? Whoever they are I want them dead.

[Albatross]

I figured out the other one is Manho. Manho needs the fear of death put into him.

I'm making a very big frowny face at ABR right now.

Why arn't you voting ABR?

[Albatross]

OOH OOH I SEE IT I SEE IT.

[Albatross]

@ Alba -- my point is that I wouldn't want 2 people to rush into town with I HERD YR LYNCHIN O HERE YE GO. So I said that.

Did you ever explain why O-town makes me scum?

'cause I think you're scum, and a town Ort would fit with what I think your strategy is as scum. I said this earlier.

[Albatross]

At this point I just WANT Iec to be scum. Stalling the day out on empty rhetoric shouldn't come from a townie.

[Albatross]

Stalling the day out on empty rhetoric shouldn't come from a townie.

In what universe are claims empty rhetoric? Not to mention promised analysis.

In the universe where the wagonee has already appeared and declined to claim and just called everyone dumb. If you seriously expected a claim to appear, you... something something something.

What promised analysis?

[Albatross]

Spyrex was the most obvious townie I have seen in a long time.

Can't be assed to care about this game right now. Someone tell me who to vote.

[Albatross]

Albratross reads as new scum since he just went back on his Ice case from yesterday.

wut?

[Albatross]

Alba 1049 - You pursued an Ice case so passionately yesterday. Why did you stop if you think Ice was scum? You kinda let the town move on it's own and you're flying under the radar. I can't reread you: but this quote shows how poorly your play is today. I'd totally shoot you.

My poor play today? I haven't been on site for the past few days.

I'll tell you why I've stopped caring. Day 1 ended up in a no lynch, the most protown player in this game gets shot, every single post in this game seems to be a novel and I don't think a single person even read my arguments about why I thought Iec is scum. Why the fuck should I get off my ass and passionately pursue an Iec case when nobody is even going to dignify me with a response? Besides, have you ever heard of the theory that in games this large every player going full throttle at each others throat only serves to distract and fracture the town?

Spyrex was the most obvious townie I have seen in a long time.

Can't be assed to care about this game right now. Someone tell me who to vote.

For example I'll contrast this post with this one down here:

@ Alba -- my point is that I wouldn't want 2 people to rush into town with I HERD YR LYNCHIN O HERE YE GO. So I said that.

Did you ever explain why O-town makes me scum?

'cause I think you're scum, and a town Ort would fit with what I think your strategy is as scum. I said this earlier.

At this point I just WANT Iec to be scum. Stalling the day out on empty rhetoric shouldn't come from a townie.

Actually the second quote bothers me. See the bold. Why do you want Iec to be scum? I thought town priorites were finding scum in people, not wanting to find scum in specific people.

I said why I want Iec to be scum. I know as well as anybody that anti-town play isn't in itself scummy and the post that I was referring to is thus not actually indicative of alignment, but it would frustrate me greatly if such a post actually did come from a townie.

A part of that is also acknowledging a hint of confirmation bias in my attitude towards Iec and I really should check my suspicion of him to make sure I am not letting myself tunnel.

----

I haven't really read the last few pages in any great detail, can someone state why Darkstalker and Dramonic are scum in 50 words or less please?

What ever happened to our esteemed Ort replacement?

I have a pretty strong town read on plum and I don't get what Parama is getting at with her.

Vas's claim is believable, but doesn't it seem a little broken?

Vas, can you be roleblocked, or are you like a normal hider and it resolves before roleblocks

Thats a dumb question don't answer.

Why the hell did chrono claim? Dude is obv town. Oh hey, I notice Iec is calling him scummy.

I'm so frustrated that I have no other real scum reads than Iec right now, but thats my own fault. The gut in me wants is eager to hear what BlazesRb has to say, I still don't like Manho and want him to start posting again, and more than one of the players that I don't even know is in the game is scum.

Blah blah blah so on and so forth. I'll get back into the swing of things over the next few days.

[Albatross]

Man, I suck at alts.

[Albatross]

Snowbunny isn't a threat even if she IS scum, she will be dealt with later.

Somebody asked me why Chronopie was obv town: Simple, he's not trying to manipulate people, nor is he concerned with self preservation (how loose he is playing). Complete lack of a scum mentality.

Nobody answered my question about why Darkstalker is scum. I don't trust anybody on that wagon.

What are we massclaiming? Our religion?

I need to go and figure out why I hate every post Manho makes.

I just realized that I am not voting.

vote:Iec

mod: have you prodded flipscythe?

[Albatross]

Nobody answered my question about why Darkstalker is scum. I don't trust anybody on that wagon.

Because DS came into the game this day all "Hey guys let's waste our lynch on the person sitting in limbo who can't defend herself or use actions."

I don't know why a town player would be worried about someone in limbo. If Mina is scum (which I don't think is the case) then she's the least scary of scum because she doesn't contribute anything to them but a body right now. If she is town then she is adding to our body count for winning even she can't participate in the thread.

It is very reasonable for a town player to be paranoid about what we do with Mina since, as far as we know, she will have to be dealt with eventually and we have no way of developing a better read on her since she can't talk or do anything in the game. So say you are a town player who has a moderate scum read on such a player? What DO you do with her?

That said, I should probably go back and actually read what he said.

As far as Mina's alignment goes, I am willing to bet her removal from the game was planned on the contingency that Spyrex wasn't going to die, considering that he was so gung-ho on lynching her and Snow_bunny's "vig" on Spy threw a monkey wrench in that plan. If I had to guess at what this implies at this point:

1) The Limboer is almost assuredly anti-town.

2) Either Snow_bunny isn't affiliated with the mafia or the Limboer isn't affiliated with the mafia. The simplest answer here would be Snow_bunny is the independant one.

3) Going off of 1, and combine that with the fact that ABR did not say that there are Serial killers in the game would lead to the simple conclusion that Snow_bunny is town. (Although he did say a modified survivor is in the game. Hmmm. Would a serial killer fit under that umbrella?)

4) Mina is very probably town.

One final side note: To the guy who can put people in Limbo, if you are town, here is the most pro-town way to use your ability: Don't.

That's all pretty obvious I guess, but whatever.

First person to utter the phrase "NK WIFOM" gets a slap.

vote:Iec

[Albatross]

I have not been reading the thread in a while (to be clear, I had kinda forgotten about this alt account) nor do I really have time to catch up in any sort of satisfactory manner, not will I go out of my way to make time because, frankly, I don't want to.

To compensate for this, I will be doing two things:

Someone will be receiving something in the mail. I wont say what. This person's name may or may not rhyme with Bighty Borbots. To the recipient, I only have one thing to say: Winter is a lovely time of year.

The second thing I will be doing is, in an exercise in trust, I will be blindly following Fate on any wagon that he chooses. Congratulations, Fate! Consider yourself a double voter.

Now who do I vote?

[Albatross]

so albatross is fate's buddy also?

Are you really that simplistic in analyzing people's interactions or are you scum? I remember thinking that you were the latter.

[Albatross]

so albatross is fate's buddy also?

Are you really that simplistic in analyzing people's interactions or are you scum? I remember thinking that you were the latter.

so why fate?

Its kinda abstract in my head and I want a little bit of time to pass before I answer this question.

Why did you not think to ask this question before you jumped the gun and immediately called me scum?

@Blaz: Where did you get that I claimed to be a god?

[Albatross]

UNVOTE; VOTE: Manho

[/red]

This is probably where my vote would have ended up anyway.

Manho responded to my post like a scumbag, Iec responded like a townie.

[Albatross]

UNVOTE; VOTE: Manho

This is probably where my vote would have ended up anyway.

Manho responded to my post like a scumbag, Iec responded like a townie.

[Albatross]

Oh shit this game.

Whats up?

[Albatross]

We are doing a massclaim?

I am Jon denbat
my spirit companion is Raphael (Don't know what this means)
Night 1 I worshiped the old ones, cause I thought that was the plan
Day 2 I didn't worship anyone as I didn't particularly care at that point.

I am associated with the JCA (says exlaws, but my predecessor got that clarified as JCA.
Ability: possesion. I wont say what my focus item does yet.
Night one I used it on Mina.
Day two I gave the item to Faraday. If he can confirm that he got it and confirm what it does I would appreciate it.

[Albatross]

If an Ex Law is a god I am a god, if not I am human. (It doesn't explicitly say, but I think I count as a god.

[Albatross]

Yes, I have an Oversoul.

Looking back at Faraday's Iso I am 98% positive he is town, so I will just claim what my Item does:

My item is a redirect.
Oversouled it becomes a full on roleblock.

I am of the opinion that a redirect is more powerful than a roleblock, that is why I didn't want JCA worshiped day 1.

I redirected Mina onto Manho Night 1. If you are wondering why I didn't redirect Iec, it is because I didn't think he would perform the NK even if he was scum. I don't remember the train of thought that led me to that conclusion.

[Albatross]

Xite's roleclaim fits pretty well with the lynch failing day 1. It's kinda hard to lynch something that is already dead/incorporeal. Furthermore, scum claiming not to know what their win condition is would mostly just serve to create more work for them/draw more attention and doesn't help them out in any strategic sense other then through the dreaded WIFOM. Combined with Katy's rolename type investigation means that in order for Xite to be scum, he would have to be both kill immune and investigation immune separate from the scum godfather which seems kind-of over powered. Xite could feasibly be the cult recruiter, but eh. I doubt it. There is also no real reason to believe that lynching her would be any more effective than it was day 1.

Thats just a bad vote all around Fate.

Is there a list of all claimed night actions in the thread somewhere or do I have to compile one myself?

Rolename: White Knight (From Chess... yup o_0)
God\Mortal: mortal
Any Worship Modifiers: none
Worship vote N1: GOO
Worship vote N2: JCA
Faction (if any): -
Ability: As you all know, take someone to limbo and creates a QT in which I get to chat with them at anytime, until I free them by picking someone else (or through weird shit like what happened this morn). They can't do any actions in there. If I get killed in any way my target gets killed in my stead, but I then lose my limboing power. I also cannot be redirected in any way, shape or form (as seen with my votes day 1)
T1 target: Mina
T2 target: Plum
Ability (if your faction gets worship votes): N/A

Can someone please explain to me how this role is pro-town in any way shape or form?

[Albatross]

One bit of advice, all of the people currently holding focus items should strongly consider passing their item to another person in secret. It will confirm your ability to another person and it would make it a lot harder for the scum to manipulate how night actions go down if they don't know who has what.

This holds especially true for snow_bunny.

(Just don't give your item to a scumbag.)

[Albatross]

Hey, don't have much time right now for a long post. I believe I have some questions waiting for me, I'll get them tomorrow.

I would be very surprised if Blaz didn't have the too human modifier, because, you know...:

1. BlazeRb (replacing Starbuck) - Thor, the Mighty

(Too Human)

- Survivor, modkilled Day 2, removed from the game Night 2

Anyway, Honoring my commitment to Fate.

vote:Raj

[Albatross]

vote:Raj

[Albatross]

I need to look through the flipped mafia's posts later, but this one I saw while skimming back a bit:

AdumbroDeus, did i see that correctly? you cant be killed except for your passive ability. does that include lynches?

This quote makes me pretty sure Adumbro is town. (I had a town read on CMAR before my activity dropped off but though that was a long time ago.)
--
I would be very shocked if both ABR and Raj turned out to be a part of the mafia, as two mafia members with the power to recruit from outside the game would be very over powered. The only hang up I have with ABR is that I would expect the role of Loki to involve tricking a large number of people (telling a big lie or something like that) seeing as he is the Norse god of trickery and he would make perfect sense as a third party role. I don't know anything about Too Human though so it might be different in that specific flavor so any sort of Flavor analysis from me would be a waste of time. He's probably town.

(Also there is a nice symmetry to there being 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 third party recruiter - ABR, Raj, and Tar respectively)
--
My town read on Chronopie is starting to fade now that he has stopped posting entirely as opposed to his active lurking earlier, though I myself am a good example that that doesn't really constitute a scum tell. I still think he's town. Which reminds me, I think we should worship the Egyptians tonight to test out his claimed revive ability.
--
I would be very surprised if Katy was scum independent of the player who is currently in Ort's player slot (Xite?) seeing as she claimed an innocent investigation on him immediately at the start of day 2 which I just don't see as a productive use of scum time (A scum could have easily justified not claiming at that time and would have been happy if the town would have continued wasting their time on that playerslot, so it only makes sense to do so in order to protect a scum buddy).
--
It is absolutely imperative that Snow_Bunny confirms that her kill is real by passing her item to another player. If it is real then the chances that she is scum are about Nil, while if she is bluffing scum this should out her. If she is uncomfortable with giving up control of the vig kill then she should publicly declare who she is giving it to and then ask them to immediately give it back after they confirm that it is real.
--
I like Dramonic as scum, though I am really struggling to articulate why. His role really screams scum to me from everything to the fact that it removes a player from posting in the game for a day (which I feel is bad no matter what their alignment is) to the fact that he uses them as a bulletproof shield. Also, his play during night two doesn't sit well with me at all.

vote:Dramonic

I wouldn't be surprised if he is the cult recruiter.
--
I am going to be honest, I don't actually read Darkstalker's posts, so I am going to have to lean on what other people are saying about him for now until I can get a better handle on this game. Ooba's case against him resonated with me a little though.
--
Ooba has been putting a lot of emphasis on the worship mechanic, which would be a minor scum tell if he did it to the exclusion of commenting on the game at large, but the he has been doing a lot of interrogating and has been very involved in the game from the very start. While people are always quick to point out the fact that "Effort being pro-town" is a fallacy, I still feel good about him at this time.
--
Iec has been a headache for me for pretty much this entire game, but I am starting to think that I was correct when I started to suspect a bit of my hate on him is due to confirmation bias with a liberal dose of playstyle clashing. That said, the last time I let him get away like that he flipped scum. Eh, hes back to neutral for now.
--
I had a strong town read on Parama day 1 for the same reasons that I always have a strong a strong town read on parama, but I can't find many examples of Parama independently scum hunting after day 1 and this worries me greatly. His interactions with Fate make me feel better though.
--
Xite makes me go ehhhhhh. I had reasoned earlier why I thought that that playerslot is likely town, but still... Ehhhhhh. Her voting record is absolutely terrible from my perspective (ABR, Nikanor, Fate, and then Raj after his lynch started to look inevitable.). Ortolan's rage quit was an alignment independent thing looking back and I really don't think much productive can be gleaned from that. Hopefully looking at interactions with the flipped scum will help a lot.
--
Some other town reads that I don't think need explaining: Fate, Nikanor, Faraday, M_O, Mina, Tar, DT

Lets see, that leaves:
TotallyNotMafia
VasudeVa
Darkstalker
Xite
Iec
Dramonic

as candidates for scum. The only ones I haven't already talked about are TNM and Vas. Both have claimed protective roles and both seem to have failed to utilize them well.

I'd look at them more in depth, but I am starting run out of energy for this. Later.

@M_O: Have you outlined in the thread anywhere why you are suspicious of Ooba? If not can I hear the reasoning?

[Albatross]

I feel bad for anyone trying to read 2500. That is a formatting nightmare.

Yes well I can trick people with my secret vote.

Eh, fair enough. It was a pretty minor point at best.

[Albatross]

I obviously support the item passing idea because I suggested it yesterday.

@M_O: What are your thoughts on Dramonic? Also:

@M_O: Have you outlined in the thread anywhere why you are suspicious of Ooba? If not can I hear the reasoning?

[Albatross]

I want to facepalm at the reasoning in 2511.

that town read is fading faster and faster.

[Albatross]

@Albatross, I'd like dramonic to put someone the town finds suspicious in Limbo tomorrow and then to try to lynch him. If he goes along with the town's wishes and his ability works how he says it does I'm more comfortable with him. On the other hand, the reason I wanted to put Plum in Limbo the other night was so that we could test out killing him without any negative consequences anyhow. He's done nothing to contribute to the game and I won't be distressed if someone decides to get rid of him as I've got no reason to think he should be town right now.

Cool, I could live with that. But I like him best as scum right now and if he doesn't show up start cooperating then I definitely want him dead tomorrow.

[quote=""Mighty Orbots"]The issue with ooba is that, although he has spent a lot of time figuring out what's going on in the thread Papa Zito in particular feels it's a case of Information instead of Analysis. He's been largely looking at what's happened not what the motivations are and who is scum based on that for the middle of the game. I feel that the information is actually pretty valuable and mind the lack of conclusions while he was getting it out there (though when I requested conclusions along the way he didn't get to them until he went for the hammer on what was pretty clearly going to be the lynch.) In any case, as Papa Zito said, we're both fairly fond of what he's saying about DarkStalker and we don't trust DarkStalker based on the position on rajrhcpfreak yesterday anyhow. I don't think most of those thoughts had made it to the thread previously. I've also got one or two reasons I think it's unlikely ooba is scum that I don't feel a need to share at this point but they don't move Papa Zito.[/quote] I would be willing to bet that Ooba would disagree with the characterization that he hasn't been doing any analysis, and I see that as a bit of a playstyle quirk than anything subversive.

Regarding Darkstalker, what alignment exactly do you think he has, just for clarity's sake? Ooba's case primarily paints him as cult, but the reasoning about Raj would seem to point to him being a part of the mafia. I always get uncomfortable around reasoning that seems to point to mutually contradictory conclusions being used to push a case (to put it simply, at least 1 of those lines of thought MUST be flawed, so using them feels dubious.)

And to be clear, it's Xite91's post you don't like when you say 2511?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Yea. A poorly reasoned jump on a counterwagon is one of the most reliable scum tells that I know of.

[Albatross]

unvote, vote: Darkstalker

I think I saw some people making remarks about the JCA items, so I think it is important to say that the oversouled abilities of our items only works with the original owners of the item. Woshipping the JCA would be a waste of time what with none of the original owners having control of their items at this time.

[Albatross]

vote:Darkstalker

Die scum die so on and so forth.

[Albatross]

I worshiped the JCA as instructed and then did a whole lot of nothing.

I am as ready to do a dram lynch today as I was yesterday.

[Albatross]

Albatross what are the conditions for your oversoul too? (I'm wondering if there is a fucking pattern)

Its a worship ability, which means that it activates when my faction receives a majority of the worship votes.

vote:Dram

[Albatross]

Posting mostly to avoid a prod. The only thing I have to say at the moment is that I am still leaning town on Katy, though that is dependent on LMP's flip.

[Albatross]

People seem to be making the assumption that LMP wasn't the cult recuiter. Am I out of the loop or something? Because Zombie totally sounds like a cult leader and his play fits as one.

This is especially jarring as people seem to have dropped all pretense of hunting scum and have focused exclusively on hunting cult. I'm looking at you, Ooba.

[Albatross]

Wait, who am I worshiping?

[Albatross]

According to the V/LA thread in general discussion Adumbro's computer has been fried and he is on forced V/LA, so hes not a flake.

I am curious of many people actually check that thread anymore.

Yes, I understand this. I'm not charging him with flaking, its only very difficult to find replacements (and the last one was killed off sooooo fast....)

[Albatross]

Maybe you should actually check the thread I was talking about.

viewtopic.php?p=2408870#p2408870

[Albatross]

Well, this is unfortunate timing.

Lottery: Phone

[Albatross]

I'm strongly considering just taking the modkill. But that would be bad because it would cause the redirect to cease functioning.

Who should I vote? This game is slower than a turtle through molasses.

[Albatross]

vote: Faraday

[Albatross]

Lottery: gloves

Vote: Katy