A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Rifka Viveka]

Vote:Deer

Right now im considering raising xvart or drippereth.

Vote: Super Smash Bros Fan.

You've never played a game with me so the fact that you know I like long posts indicates you've been heavily Wiki studying other players.

This strikes me as an odd reason for a vote. The quote seems to be implying that the writer sees that SSBF is reading wiki meta before or around the game, and that this is somehow scummy while at the same time implying its a null tell. Perhaps he means the use of meta is scummy, but imo working hard is a towner tell.

I also dont like animorph just ignoring everything, and i dont like any of the people being obstructionist(aka ''you cant find me\anyone scum yet nyah nyah'')

[Rifka Viveka]

Right now im considering raising xvart or drippereth.

Care to explain?

Sure. I see two ways to proceed with this double vote-either give it to a town read, or give it to a scummy player to try to ''nk magnet'' him\her. Ill play it face value and thus go with one of these townish players.

[Rifka Viveka]

Richard, you cant play this bad then whine when people are all over you for your scumminess. That is assuming your townie, which your blatant AtE implies

Benmage, thats the obstructionist attitude that gets you scumpoints in my book. Are you analyzing the thread posts? If you are why could you have questions as to why some players are scummy?

[Rifka Viveka]

Would you be so kind as to rephrase, or highlight, or by any means you want to the case on said "two scum".

People always like to vote on "assummed" scummy behavior, or picky backing on others ideas...often i find i have to pull peoples teeth to get a few simple bullets, highlights, or rewording (maybe i want it in different words) and stupid ass people can be so obstinate...i have to ask my self why? And 2 options come to mine, stubborn scum, or dumbasses...you pick which you want to be in your next post.

And is this "oh 3 now" suppose to scare me...like asking you to rephrase scummy positions could possibly be interpreted as scummy, give me a fucking break, play better.

I'm an obstructionists?? Do tell....how is asking someone to highlight, or restate a case at all bad?

First quote. Hard to read this as anything but challenging the scumstate of those two players. Second quote, you add to this by saying only scum or dumbasses could think this...which especially feels like your lawyering for others. Third quote, i didnt call you an obstructionist, i said it was an obstructionist attitude.

It looks like your calling people out to layout their entire reasoning so you can proceed to discredit it instead of directly defending those players as not scummy, when they clearly are scummy.

Finally your vote on drip is less than worthless.

[Rifka Viveka]

1.And your point? I wanted concrete evidence from Drip, and received nothing but stubbornness.
2. Lawyering for others? Not exactly sure what you mean there unless your suggesting I'm defending others?? Can you explain what you meant here.

I refer to the process of raising the expectation of evidence to an unreasonable level early in the game. Its the extended version of a player getting caught in the RVS and defending himself using the argument ''you cant catch scum in the RVS''. Why would you even use the word ''concrete'' in that context?

Im sure you have played mafia offsite. Perhaps you have played in a game heavy with roles, where the players spend more time explaining why the scum cant be caught and this that and the next thing are null cause they do it to. Then they no lynch and wait for cops and vigs to bail them out. This attitude pisses me off. We can find scum, we probably already have and several people need to be gunned down

Then ill reverse the question;how does your vote on drip find lynch scum? You think drip should be lynched?

[Rifka Viveka]

RVS for me doesn't end until day 2.

I've played mafia on other sites.

I should say that there is no random vote "period" in my mind. I make one random vote unless something solid grabs my attention.

Luckily dr modem isnt around to explain this.

[Rifka Viveka]

If you have an issue with it, vote for me. I'm in the playerslot now, so if you really think it's that much of an issue, vote for me. Bringing up things from Modem for no reason is scummy, and just a way to get people suspicious of me without putting yourself out there.

Right, your posting decently for now so i prefer to let it play out. Voting for you now, would simply be a way for someone to hide behind a vote that couldnt be defended against.

[Rifka Viveka]

You trying to troll me, benmage?

[Rifka Viveka]

Raise Drippereth

wynaut?

Consider yourself at L-1, though, Richard.

I like hammering skulls open, so...

[Rifka Viveka]

Richard, does getting lynched count as dying?

[Rifka Viveka]

Is the book read as good vs evil or faction vs faction vs faction? Even if the name claim is legit, it doesnt automatically mean he must be town.

However, if his ability is true then he could be quite usefull...

[Rifka Viveka]

SSBF, you seem to be operating like richard is a confirmed townie who just claimed luke skywalker.

We sure do seem to have a LOT of lurkers.

[Rifka Viveka]

The New York Lurker Report

1)Xvart=4
2)Mina=11
3)LynchMePls=21
4)MacavityLock=10
5)CryMeARiver=12
6)Unsight=4
7) Paranoia=1
8)Benmage=37
9)Axelrod=8
10)Super Smash Bros. Fan=34
11)Percy=6
12) CCARaven4=3
13) Vezopiraka=20
14) animorpherv1=6
15) Mikujin=3
16) I doubt it=3
17) Kleedrac=5
18) Migwelloni=2
19) Hayker=4
20) Rifka Viveka=12
21) Deer=7
22) dannakillsu=15
23) RichardGHP=25
24) DrModemhasdgfas=10+5
25) MagnaOfIllusion=4
26) Drippereth=42

So in a 26 player game the top 3 posters have roughly 35% of the total vote count in roughly 6 days. 9 players have 4 posts or less, or roughly 13% of the vote count.

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka re: 327 – Please indicate whether you think post volume is the only measurable for activity in a game. Are 5 short posts (ala Deer) worth more than a single post like Cow’s? Please explain how that post is not IoA? Having reviewed your ISO I see a first post vote for Deer, some jousting with Benmage and little actual scum-hunting. Who are your top scum-reads at the moment? Do you think Deer is still scum? ISO 8 seems to say you would be willing to hammer Richard yet you barely address his play at all to that point (only in ISO 2). Why?

Its definitely information over analysis. This kind of breakdown isnt available automatically, is it?

As to your other Q, half the game is scum right now. I like SSBF and deer particularly. Deer hasnt done anything to even justify moving the vote. As for being willing to hammer richard at the time, ill suffice myself with referring his contradiction of calling out CMAR then using even earlier evidence to justify a vote.

[Rifka Viveka]

The point is that you’ve splattered the thread with a whole bunch of numbers but tell us nothing about what you think they mean.

I think it means town players need to post more so they can be read and contribute towards winning. Im not impressed by your weak effort to paint me as scummy by this.

Unvote

Intending to vote mikujin at L1 bwhaha

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmm raivann there are no benefits from a player getting a one-shot vig?

Gotta say i think thats a weak opening post...maybe i unvoted deer too soon?

[Rifka Viveka]

I like the DGBish intuition over logic. I think the aggressive style makes scum uncomfortable because they lack control. If their buddy gets fingered they cannot use logic to extract him from the lynch, and when they flail at the accuser it reveals them. At any moment they could go from snug as a bug to being under heat

Plus its a popular misconception if you dont post reasoning, you dont have any reasoning.

I was going to say something here, but i cant remember now

[Rifka Viveka]

2. I was explaining to I doubt it that his case on Benmage was very poor. I asked for evidence and he gave me a quote from one of his posts. I then searched Benmage's ISO and found that I doubt it's case on Benmage was mostly flawed and thus I went after I doubt it. Not because I thought Benmage was pro-town (I do, but that wasn't the reason why I attacked I dobut it's case on him), but because I didn't like I doubt it's case on Benmage.

Right, but benmage is a big boy and can take care of himself, plus now we cant see how he would react. Answering questions for others is also something of a scumtell. You can say you werent defending him, but the result of your action was indeed defending him

[Rifka Viveka]

unraise raise percy

In order to comply with my own raising logic

I kinda agree with 479...is that really an unacceptable level of personal attack or the truth?

/sleeptime

[Rifka Viveka]

I do find SSBFs ''parrotgate'' suspicious, but not because parroting is suspicious itself, or more accurately since there was a ninja post, clearly no parroting happened at all. Instead, in his haste to accept 'guilt' for this action, and quickly get out in front of what was not scummy at all he reveals IMO a awareness of his own scumminess i usually see out of scum players-scum often see themselves and partners as scummier than they really look for example.

[Rifka Viveka]

We'd prefer to not extend the deadline, as we've still got about a week before Nightfall.

Standing by for hammer duty I prefer raivann lynch. He was the original scum deer and still is

[Rifka Viveka]

A:If i thought a player is scum, then another player that i think is scumy attacking him isnt in any way a redeeming factor for that player in a game of this size. Right now im thinking benmage is town though. Not sure where you came up with the rest of the stuff in your post

[Rifka Viveka]

What do you find so important about being the hammer on a lynch? What does it benefit town that you be on “hammer” duty?

Cause on mafiascum.net, there is an incredible amount of players willing to vote but not to hammer the same player. Thats my intention

[Rifka Viveka]

Are those really the only 2 possibilities? I disagree, obv. How can you say everyone has hammerlust and its very fishy at the same time?

[Rifka Viveka]

Why the need to make shit up? I never said to wait. If you can lynch raivan before i get on, more power to you.

[Rifka Viveka]

Mina, read my posts. I dont have a case on benmage because i dont really find him big scummy read, plus he isnt posting enough to have some kind of solid case. The worst that could be said is active lurking and\or mysterious vote on drippy.

Here is my post answering you

A:If i thought a player is scum, then another player that i think is scumy attacking him isnt in any way a redeeming factor for that player in a game of this size. Right now im thinking benmage is town though. Not sure where you came up with the rest of the stuff in your post

[Rifka Viveka]

BTW why is there a player Julienvonwolfe not voting to lynch, is that player actually in the game? I couldnt find a single post of theirs in ISO

[Rifka Viveka]

EBWOP: NM, I found it

[Rifka Viveka]

@Mina:Thats a textbook case of active lurking IMO. Plenty of posting, but he hasnt really said anything.

I never called benmage scum, i simply felt at such an early time it wasnt helpfull to do what he was doing. Its not a particular scumtell of mine, obstructionism. I really think you are reaching here, and reading\imagining things that dont exist. Because i talked to him 1v1 for a bit, i feel like i have a better read on him than before, i dont get the gut scum read.

[Rifka Viveka]

Ill try answering this as simply as i possible can to get the points across

1) Do you disagree with I doubt it's case on Benmage, but dislike Benmage for other reasons?
2) Is there something I doubt is has done that makes him look scummy/inexperienced to you?
3) Is there a reason you dropped your suspicion of Benmage?
4) I want you to explain, in detail, just why you think your case on Benmage is better than I doubt it's.

1. i doubt its case is very unprofessional in any event.
2. I read and reacted to a single post(or however many he made at that moment in time) not based on a scum or town read of i doubt it.
3. I dont need to be suspicious of someone to sharply engage them. see below
4. This case on benmage doesnt exist, assuming case means coherent argument for being scum. I like him for town now

[Rifka Viveka]

@julien;i dont think i brought this up before, but one point i found very weird about MacavityL-SSBF was SSBFs repeated praising of MLs play as not making any scumtells. When im playing scum, i never think about how well a prob-town player is playing, because obv they wont make big scumtells as town besides minor slips etc. SSBF looks almost like he knows ML is scum to be so amazed at how well he is playing.

on the drippy topic, (DGB) thinks raivan is town because im bussing scum(yet doesnt want to lynch the bussed scum? hmmm) and elli doesnt seem to want raivan lynch\push me as scum(or atleast, didnt say anything of relevance in the last post) combined with drippy pushing deer early then forgetting about it later, makes me see drippy-raivan connection

richard is pathetic but i believe his claim and with that his play can be interpreted as some species of town

[Rifka Viveka]

Vote raviann

Lets go

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka Viveka: I see you're on "hammer duty", but will you hammer anyone who gets to L-1?

I had to abandon that in order to pursue the lynch getting done at all. No to the second

I have a Q for everyone wagoning CMAR. That is, have you done a sitewide ISO on this player especially in games like ''go play in traffic''? This is looking suspiciously like a policy lynch. How are you distinguishing scum-CMAR from town-CMAR in this situation?

[Rifka Viveka]

What happened in that traffic game?

In that game he claimed NK immune GF in twilight as cop heading into lylo, but its not like he is doing hot in other games i read, finished or otherwise...

[Rifka Viveka]

Unvote

Even so, im a little nervous letting a player of raivanns caliber select his own targets. I suggest we give him a list of 5 scummy scums that need killing and let him choose off that list. vezopiraka is obv on that list

Vote richard

conflicting claims

[Rifka Viveka]

You know the vanilla role PM is included in the OP so lets not get carried away with syntax analysis here

I know i was just opposing a CMAR lynch awile back, but im wavering in the face of his recent posts

[Rifka Viveka]

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

[Rifka Viveka]

@thor;Sad as it is, i suspect cmar will actually flip town. But in this situation with richard being very scummy(actually he got scummier after his claim than before) and richards claim being what it is, i think it makes more sense to go with him. As i said, either way on a richard lynch we have a high chance of hitting scum this way. i dont think its likely out of two scummy players, both will flip town. budja and vezo are good canidates for vigging too though

More succinctly, lynching CMAR will only lynch CMAR, but a richard lynch will both lynch richard and kill CMAR, or just hit scum

[Rifka Viveka]

2) If Richard is town, we can't say for certain Ser Loras will use his vig kill, and if he does, use it on CMAR. If Renly is its own faction, they may save it for later use

Your suggesting richard be town\truthfull and the kill goes to an avenging scum?! Okaaay

Unless, of course, you're softclaiming Ser Loras and telling us you'll vig CMAR?

Fishing expedition much?

Presumably whoever gets this vig, if true+town, will deliver it on an appropriate target like CMAR, as i stated previously. All you seem to do is raise pointless objections in your last posts. Whats your plan exactly?

[Rifka Viveka]

More succinctly, lynching CMAR will only lynch CMAR, but a richard lynch will both lynch richard and kill CMAR, or just hit scum

Hello, reading comprehension please. Its a small overview of some of the possible outcomes if he is fakeclaiming, trueclaiming,etc. Obviously if the richard lynch hit a lying scum, that would be an excellent result. I mentioned this original as a hypothetical vs hypothetical example, so im not sure if your being obtuse on purpose or what

[Rifka Viveka]

Id like to see drippereth and benmage post before the deadline instead of hiding under their stones

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmm, we seem to be too lethargic for anything but CMAR lynch. Claim time obv CMAR

Something starting to bothering me about drippy, be sensing caps locked fake aggression Wish id actually played with them before. i do agree about kinetic-scum, for a player who seemed ontop of theme games and how best to proceed, he is being totally mum

[Rifka Viveka]

''Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim can take an eternity.''

[Rifka Viveka]

@Raivann: If you are truly a Town Vigilante, shoot vezokpiraka.

You could try shooting SSBF too, raivann. Seriously, i suggest reading all topics on this then choosing from those suggested instead of ''target this player or die'' mandates

[Rifka Viveka]

Common theme with SSBF seems to be talking about how well people are or are not playing, not if they are scum.

Im actually liking drippy for a raivann buddy aswell. He\she\it\they\them seized the first chance to start directing off his wagon prior to claiming, IIRC

[Rifka Viveka]

Heh. Okay, so I wasn't just imagining it. My reasoning for putting you among my top suspects was partly because I thought you were playing a lot like you did in the mini. Eventually, you'd better step it up, but that post did sound genuine.

I feel the opposite way. Yes there is a genuine ring to it, but kinetic is a decent player who keep feel a little embarrassed for making himself look scummy for no reason, hurting his team, so the apology could have been sincere but to his buddies. Also, last time someone said they couldnt wrap their head around the game, they were scum i was pressuring :/

I gotta admit, all these relatives dying, houses burning, jobs lost, earthquakes, floods excuses drive me nuts :headwall:

[Rifka Viveka]

Ive lost family members while active in a mafia game so dont act like only you feel pain. I didnt tell anyone or use it as an excuse even to myself. You want VLA, then just announce it. And if it wasnt clear, i wasnt even talking about you specificly. Several other people made posts involving some kind of RL impact story

[Rifka Viveka]

These three i was referring to;

Sorry...extremely busy tomorrow and possibly Thursday. Hence my limited access alert.

I am going to conduct a re-read tonight, barring unforeseen circumstances.

Not trying to lurk, my first priority is my own game I'm modding, and although its summer I'm not at the computer very often. Bleh. I understand my play looks remarkably similar to my play in the mini (of which I was indeed scum, lol), and not anything like my normal town play (ala, MSM4, or any other game I've played as town). Best I can say right now is I haven't had the time to wrap my head around the game.

That being said, I don't have to be as focused on my modding commitments right now, so I'll be catching up a bit more since the Day opened. I'll admit, I was kind of hoping to draw a NK... lol O well, I guess I'll have to make the scum pay for leaving me in the game.

I'm OK with the dana lynch for now, expect a more substantial update "soon" (tm), and I do realize that both Mina and Percy are asking me questions. I haven't forgotten, I'll get to them too. Yay. ><

Sorry peoples. School and general life has been hectic this week.

I will be sure to make a decent post on Friday, or Saturday at the latest.

[Rifka Viveka]

I did mention relatives dying in my post, but i was more referring to in past games, i have seen people claim dead relatives in the most opportune times.

[Rifka Viveka]

I don't really see how I have to be his scumbuddy just because I didn't say much about him, and then said he was scummy. That just happens all the time.

This almost looks like the ''you caught me for the wrong reasons rant'' tell.

Ill put down a

vote:SSBF

as per earlier reasons

[Rifka Viveka]

If he is a scum RBer, there isnt any point asking drip if they got RBed. He obviously wouldnt need to lie about that part, so unless its a total bogus claim i wouldnt think drip would need to say anything.

[Rifka Viveka]

I think he looks pretty scummy, but when i read him in ISO i dont think i saw anything that couldnt come from town.

Have no idea of the flavour, his wiki page was too little of detail to mention much, although he sounds like some kind of SK in the nest book from their description

[Rifka Viveka]

I stabbed CSL,he claimed VT. I was just bummed when i saw the stabs weak effects, it would have been a cool mechanic as a instant-kill

@thor. there are logical cases against both SSBF and dana, but i have a scum gut read on SSBF, so he gets the nod.

[Rifka Viveka]

That doesnt even make sense...If you thought CSL is a mafia PR, wouldnt you prefer he be dead?

[Rifka Viveka]

You specifically go out of your way here to not answer the question presented to you.

1. Why were you surprised at the Wounding’s “weak effects” when they were clearly presented in the Mod’s post?
2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another

1. What makes you think i was surprised?
2. WTF

Yours and xvarts questions look like questions asked for the sake of asking questions.

[Rifka Viveka]

MOD specifically stated THE EXACT effects in his post. Why even post that you were bummed and that it would be a cool instant-kill mechanic? It obviously wasn’t.

Your statement adds nothing to the game and is just active-lurking filler.

Id be interested in hearing your argument why a person could get stabbed 10-20 times and only lose his ability\vote for the day. It looked like a free lynch until i kept reading.

2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another?

This itself, is filler posting in the same vein you accuse me of. The third sentence leaves me at a loss for words, im not even sure where this comes from.

[Rifka Viveka]

When the flavor dropped there was one stab wound, not multiple, which means we just got to influence some dude with a shank. You're playing up the riot event to be more than it was.

We were discussing the flavor when the event was first announced. Try to keep up.

[Rifka Viveka]

Hey magna, i didnt choose to write all that fluff posting. You did, by asking me about it. I think your just trying to piss me off honestly, as it looks like again, no reading comprehension of what i was saying

[Rifka Viveka]

Drippereth last post jul 5th...your posting elsewhere, why?

[Rifka Viveka]

1. The post in question that I am attacking 1135 is in NO WAY a response to me. You posted it. In response to the event.

This is the last time ill respond to this topic;my comment was part of the reasoning of my stab-CSL logic. You are trying to make a mountain out of this molehill, and everytime i explain it that explanation is used as evidence against me-very unproductive on your part IMO

[Rifka Viveka]

But vezo, a simple ISO of you shows that you were already playing outside the RVS with your first post and onwards.

[Rifka Viveka]

There is a whole lot of this in your post, but this one in particular;

Either way, although I'm uneasy about I doubt it, I agree with him that I'd rather leave dana alive to eat a nightkill. Hey, scum! The protown jailkeeper just revealed. Even better, if you're being sincere about your opinions in the thread, at least 75% of you think dana is scum. And if you're a Greyjoy and dana isn't one of your buddies...well, don't you want the Lannister roleblocker flip to distract everyone from looking for Raivann's buddies? Of course, it's probably too late for this plan to work, since everyone in the game has vocally declared how much they want to lynch him.

What exactly is this there for but to eat space? You propose a plan to direct scum nightkill, then explain why that wouldnt work in the same breath.

[Rifka Viveka]

Since days last weeks...I'd say 30 hours is a time crunch and that theres no time for a wagon switch. Noones even attempting to be persuasive enough. Everyones heard people's pieces on Vezo, SSBF, Dana, and CSL...and look where the votes are. Noone promoting the alternative lynches is going out of their way to pick at peoples cases/votes, so nothings going to change. Dana will hang.

I can only speak for myself, but im leaning scum on 3 of those now(csl im a little iffy on) so why would i or anyone that felt the same way attack those cases? If i want SSBF lynched over dana but i still think dana is scum, it doesnt really make sense to try to demolish a dana case.

card flip time

Unvote Vote Danakillsu

[Rifka Viveka]

I always thought SSBF was more like a greyjoy mafia(=raivann buddy). Who said he was lannister?

I feel percy is a strong town read right now, so its sorta a waste to use it on him. I would like to know benmage or magnaofillusion alignments personally

definitly up for a vezo lynch here. he got caught in the cookie jar yesterday

[Rifka Viveka]

Did you forget in the following 2 posts that you had to read that it was me?

I KNEW you would spout this. Im asking YOU where you got that from

[Rifka Viveka]

Step Forward

forgot this

[Rifka Viveka]

I just ruled it out as an option. Since people we're calling him scum, and I was unconvinced. Although in double light of ruling him out as being a Lannister I will revisit his potential Greyjoy connection.

Alright i just got a little frustrated when you jumped on that. I hate the new ''ninja'' gaurd feature so i just keep clicking submit till it goes through,


I think SSBF is scum but it would be very hard for me to vote SSBF while vezo is alive. His claim vs soft claim contradiction is mind boggling

[Rifka Viveka]

Mina is totally right. Cop 101 is dont investigate total obv town or total VI at the bottom of the scuminess barrel thats an obv lynch. So its suspicious when experienced player like benmage advocates wasting it on percy

@thor;shoot vezo. It doesnt get any simpler than that, his explanation of his soft claim vs real claim reads as bogus. too bad spyrex isnt here to run the vig like he did in SWN2...

[Rifka Viveka]

The feeling is mutual because I’d really like to have yours investigated also. Funny how my pressure against you at the end of the Day yields this gem.

I wont even pretend it isnt OMGUS to a degree. However i think its quite natural to wonder of the person pressing you is scum when some of the reasons for doing so are from my perspective bullshit. I certainly wouldnt be opposed to being investigated to make my life easier, but thats kinda selfish to campaign for. (dont worry, you dont need to boil in here saying i could be just saying that, i know)

trust me

Im sure you will recall that appeal to experience is also a logical fallacy...its not like i think percy is 100% town, not at all. but in this multiscum enviro+my towny read on him, im plenty comfortable leaving him for now. Of course that will depend on percys claim and how it compares to LL info...so just awaiting some percy activity here.

[Rifka Viveka]

What's your analysis of the Percy flip?

I would say some eager beavers are looking to pin some scalps to the wall. I get the mood that people think there is only 2 scum groups+SK, but im not sure there isnt a third so im not ready to call benmage certain town like has been implied. Obviously you never wanted percy to be investigated yourself as you had already done so, i believe percy still wasnt the investigation choice(ill gadly debate this in postgame) and someone like SSBF a perpetual lynch canidate\middle of the road player would still be the logical choice. I already said it, but im fine with being investigated.


Obviously you think im a percy buddy, but do i make sense as a raivan buddy? I was on him constantly from my first post to the end of d1.

[Rifka Viveka]

Vezo is telling the truth though. IMO he just needs to get wacked

[Rifka Viveka]

Vezo, unless you could produce a list of previous games, and accurate info showing how you call scum a good portion of the time and simply have a hard time convincing people of it-NO ONE is going to be listening to a confirmed-town-vezo.

Light a candle for : Rifka Viveka

cause i like candles

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?

For the WIFOM value?

Actually, i was curious to see if magnaofillusion would actually follow up on that suspicion of me, but didnt make the slightest effort to do so. Reading his ISO, he seems to have an entirely reactionary playing, sharply making points on posts throughout the game, but never seeming to actually initiate attacks(my perception anyway) difficult player for me getting a read on... Plus, being confirmed=sit back and have a lemonade in the shade as far as defending goes

Im pretty sure i know what the follow up responses to this^ will be(im cynical like that), but ill let you state it in your own words

[Rifka Viveka]

Lighting a candle for yourself was your attempt to find out if Magna's suspicion of you was genuine? What were you expecting the pro-town reaction to be?

I dont like the way this is phrased...but its just one small part of trying to gain a perspective on magna.

Now unsights reaction to my response is def more along the lines of what im looking for out of scum...im seeing painting here.

[Rifka Viveka]

Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.

I disagree...the ''attacks'' on you were more responsive in nature, i feel...and thats fine, its a style. When i think of attack i think of percy wall post on d2 starting, thats not a violent reaction to a scummy post, but a heavy push.

[Rifka Viveka]

quotes from magna;

RVS vote for Raivann’s slot. Note the raising point for later in the summary

BULLSHIT. Deers first post was scummy as hell, your going beyond scumhunting here and saying i couldnt have accurately gotten a scumread off him, for that megatell post. This was not a RVS vote

Very interesting statement on Day 2 regarding dana before his Lannister flip.

That IS a scumtell, and i wasnt the only one to point it out. What are you saying here, that it wasnt?

She voted for Raivann when things could have gone in any direction with him, CMAR and Budja.

Well atleast you include a good argument for why im not a greyjoy. Thats something i slightly referenced earlier to locke lamora, that i wouldnt really make sense as a raivain buddy...as i was under the impression that vote helped keep the pressure on

[Rifka Viveka]

I agree that the claim looks bogus. I get the feeling he copy pasted his SK flavour and changed the name to town vig. Thats why the mod was pissed at him, or he copied a fake claim

Vote SSBF

[Rifka Viveka]

The thing is for me, two full vigilantes seems impossible on the same alignment. What i just realized i dont know if there is two full claimed vigs...also difference between now and d1 when i wanted to keep vig claim alive, is now theres people i dont want getting shot if he is lying and spites us

unvote

got plenty of time to think here

[Rifka Viveka]

Sooo you think Arya would be an SK?

I had her pegged as a possible SK character from my initial read through on SOIAF wiki.

[Rifka Viveka]

I cant even remember who those are. I only glanced through some of the characters, after the mod said flavour wouldnt matter much...that has certainly played out. I dont recall her as some hero though

[Rifka Viveka]

And why not? Is it that farfetched that luke skywalker would be a SK\Sith Lord? To most, yes. To me, a star wars book fan, it could be perfectly rationalised.

It really looks to me, very suspicious about this flavour+claim presentation. i dont know if its a mafia fake claiming or a SK partial claiming, but i know it looks off

[Rifka Viveka]

Magna

Hard as hell to tell what that vote was when it consists solely of “Vote: Deer” and nothing else.

All my votes are dead serious...IIRC i thought the RVS was well over by the time i posted that

The point is that it potentially inadvertently betrays inside knowledge. Only a Greyjoy or a Lannister would have reason to suspect (before dana’s flip) that dana was being strung up for incorrect linking logic. I was sure he’d flip Greyjoy based on the whole Raivann / Budja posting dana had done.

If others also made similar statements please point them out because I missed them.

I would have to reread that area, but in reference to the post i quoted, the scumtell is that a scum gets upset for being run up ''for the wrong reasons'', such as a false link to a dead mafia of another alignment. This scumtell can be applied without the third party observer(me) knowing the link is false, because i can see dana strongly believes its false.

Edit;whoops, the only player i found that agreed with me was percy on post 1132

And the fact that he flipped (your) Godfather shouldn't have any bearing on this series of events, hmm?
Also, Rifka beat me to the punch, but this is "you caught me for the wrong reasons".

...

Mikujin, what part specifiably do you find bogus about the claim? Macavitar said he was probably a SK, then you called him too trusting, so i really dont get it?

[Rifka Viveka]

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

Before we go any further here, are you or are you not familiar with this tell?

[Rifka Viveka]

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

Before we go any further here, are you or are you not familiar with this tell?

Don't dodge the question - are you asserting that dana couldn't strongly argue against a link that was in fact true?

Not at all. Now are you really pretending you dont realize that scum get upset sometimes when fingered specifically for something that in hindsight, couldnt really implicate them?

How can i differentiate between scum upset at facing a false link and a scum arguing against a real link? Cause i can read, and more importantly analyze. Ive seen this tell before, and i recognized it in danas behavior here. You realize your argument that a townie couldnt do that is going to be utterly repudiated the moment i flip town, right?

...

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

3+3+1 VS 19 with a day vig seems lightweight to me. Plus a town vengefull and a multilife townie...right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

[Rifka Viveka]

right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

So 2-2-1 left?

Thats the highest number south of 35% that i can think to arrange the groups into. A 3+3+3+1 setup would be 38%. Or if there isnt a SK, 3+3+3 could make sense. I think it has to be between 25 and 35 percent.

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka: you didn't really answer my question. You lit a candle for yourself, Magna ignored it. If Magna had made reference to it, or lit his own candle for you, or called it scummy, would that have given you a town read? Do you think Magna's more likely to be scum because he didn't take that opportunity to push an attack on you?

Ive been arguing with magna for awhile now, and i really dont get the feeling of an inquisitive, probing player attempting to discern my alignment, but someone just looking for cheap debate shots. He said he was interested in investigating me, then totally ignored it so that makes me wonder if he was really interested at all. His action there wouldnt be definitive of alignment one way or another, but its fits his pattern of behavior. Now he is going to storm in here and say im ignoring him, but im not really sure what there is to say on that front. I wrote a reply in notepad he can have when he demands but imo this is starting to clutter

Im up for an unsight, mikujin lynch right now. gut scum reads. ive come around to thinking the best option is leaving SSBF alive

[Rifka Viveka]

Im gonna go ahead and lay down a

vote:mikujin

although im interested to see what benmage comes up with. Unsight not lookking good either

There hasn't been anything I can really say, this game has become a bit dead for me. I really think we should decide on a lynch soon.

I believe the point is now that your claim has been accepted your not doing anything.

[Rifka Viveka]

yup yup

Im surprised no one is on mikujin. Repeated rolefishing alone i thought was pretty scummy

[Rifka Viveka]

That doesn't invalidate his point at all.

Unsight is at L-2 and should claim.

I agree with this. Right now unsight is stalling and its clear where momentum is headed. We should hear the claim now to increase discussion time before deadline instead of another frantic scrambling around

BTW diddin, i kinda disagree about your point of me. I wanted an unsight or mikujin lynch earlier and put a placeholder vote on miku while awaiting benmages cases(not to be annoying benmage but where is that?). Im definitely going to be voting unsight at some point here

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka: why are you worried about annoying Benmage?

I am not ''worried''

Your questioning me about this instead of my voting preferences or whatnot?

[Rifka Viveka]

Asking him about that case the way you did was pretty odd if you're not worried about it. It was an odd thing to say anyway. Are you trying not to antagonise Benmage, then?

Do I need to question you about your voting preferences? I would say you'd like a Mikujin lynch but you'll be voting Unsight before deadline. Perhaps you'd like to give me a top 3 with reasons if you're so eager.

Where are you reading these emotions from? Im not "eager". Exactly on your second sentence. What im getting at is, i didnt understand why the seemingly spurious questioning. It was merely a friendly-to-neutral ranged request to see the previously mentioned cases.

[Rifka Viveka]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't LynchMePls' vote hammer CMAR? Aren't we supposed to stop with the banter?

@Lock:

All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past. (For instance: in the past you've usually made your case and voted right away, but not this time.)

What about these two benmage? All you said was ''25- further R-hate.'' and ''42- Vig SSBF, lynch Vezo pending Percy result''. Plus his iso 1 and attacking drippereth scum hunting. You didnt even mention #23?

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka: do you not think it's strange to apologise for annoying Benmage by asking for a case he promised ages ago? I would have thought that the main motivation for saying that (as opposed to something like "Hey Benmage, why don't you do some scumhunting and produce that case) was to avoid Benmage going after you. Seems scummy to me.

You just keep pinballing between one thing or another, and its never going to fit cause there simply isnt anything of emotional depth behind the comment. It certainly wasnt intended, nor was it, an apology. I dont make apologies...

Your proposed alternative that i say, is far more aggressive and accusing in a way i wouldnt have intended at that time.

Im going to vote for unsight pending votecount, i think its l2 but not sure

[Rifka Viveka]

Unvote, vote unsight

Im really perplexed by whats going on with the no quoting role pm rule. That claim from unsight looks like quotage either from a role or fake claim, or just entirely written to look like that. Either way it certainly isnt a lynch-stopping claim.