He's not scum hunting, he's just painting people as scummy.
A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom
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Unsight Goon
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Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
Irrelavent to the game. I know DrippingGoofball plays a lot more randomly then this, but if you're going to contribute to the game, PLEASE use evidence from this game. This isn't contributing.Drippereth wrote:Oooooooh, I HAVE A NICE FIND.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 75#2189675unvote. vote: SSBF
Richard needs to explain why he would even mention a policy lynch despite his avid disliking of them as of 3 months ago. SSBF probably needs to die.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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Mentioning the words "policy lynch" isn't scummy, taboo, or even FoS-worthy on its own. Richard's change of stance on them can be explained by him being scum but time is a factor. If he had made that post yesterday, then it would be a very drastic shift in perception. The fact that it's 3 months old now means he should explain it, but it's not necessarily reliable as a scum tell and certainly not on its own.MacavityLock wrote:Unsight, why is SSBF worse than Richard here?
SSBF's extreme reaction to Eliball's post is another matter. Showing that someone is playing differently than their norm can be very relevant and calling that post irrelevant before Richard even answers to it can have many meanings... many scummy ones. Also, if you look at SSBF's ISO, you'll see that post is one of the most aggressive posts in there. That link really rubbed him the wrong way. He was either distancing Eliball or protecting Richard.Games are meant to be fun.-
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The same MacavityLock who suddenly perked up when I vote you but still manages to put you in his dislikes? You scum buddies are funny.Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Defindentlyunraise. I have a few pro-town reads now.
I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. AlthoughDrippereth wrote:We have a question.
Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead, you're not a bad choice either.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you stopped pretending to be a newbie?danakillsu wrote:
? Everyone is scum? That's news to me.As far as I'm concerned you're all scum atm.
I really don't see this at all. Kleedrac is exaggerating a lot of stuff, and it's beginning to look like flailing to me.You seem to have adopted not only hydra heads but also a spaghetti case syndrome where you're throwing accusations at everything in site save the damned mod!
That's about all I could find.I get a gut read of scum on Kleedrac, but since I haven't played with him before, I have no idea if it's enough to merit a vote.Games are meant to be fun.-
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danakillsu has played in about 25+ games on mafiascum.net, has a gut read of scum on someone, but says he's not voting that person because he has no experience with said player instead of something definitive like "this wagon is better" or "I don't see the case on him." I have no experience with danakillsu but I can easily go find a couple of his 20-something games and get experience with him because I'm not lazy in my scum hunting. Also, it was a lame way to acknowledge the wagon without boarding it or resisting it. Laundering is my new favorite word these days.Mina wrote:4)
Um...you realize that dana is saying in that quote he doesn't have experienceUnsight wrote:Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you stopped pretending to be a newbie?with Kleedracand not with the game overall? After days of not posting, that throwaway line in a post of a player you're not even voting is the only thing you thought was worth commenting on?
You know what, I'm going to try something different.Vote: Unsight. You seem like you're trying to look active, but you're just picking at minor points.
And yes, I attack people I'm not voting. I have one vote and there are many scum. Just because I find one and vote him doesn't mean I stop all scumhunting to tunnel on him. And FWIW, I've already found two scum buddies. What have you done?Games are meant to be fun.-
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"does not appear to be following up on players at all"Locke Lamora wrote:I find that Unsight has been picking up on scummy things that I agree with, but does not appear to be following up on players at all. Mina picked up on a similar thing here - it seems a bit like he/she? is spotting one scummy thing, declaring that player to be scum and then moving on. The lack of content doesn't help this, obviously, but I find the apparent lack of desire to question players or follow up on initial suspicion to be scummy.
Vote: Unsight
I'd back a lynch on any of the above, but Unsight seems to me to be the most likely scum trying to coast, firing off some good points but not backing it up with genuine interest in the players they're attacking.
"I find the apparent lack of desire to question players or follow up on initial suspicion to be scummy"
"not backing it up with genuine interest in the players they're attacking"
My original vote for SSBF was based on the idea that SSBF was defending him by attacking Eliball (uncharacteristic of his ISO) and later reinforced by MacavityLock's odd treatment of him. These aren't things that SSBF can explain away to my satisfaction. It was and still is true that if RichardGHP flips scum, it's pretty likely they all will. However, RichardGHP's claim is very believable and his play so far has been consistent with his play in Mafia 110 even to the point of almost being lynched and claiming Day 1. That rules out scum buddying scum but not scum buddying town. It also leaves MacavityLock's odd treatment of SSBF. To this point MacavityLock is still slinging mud at SSBF asking people to convince him but without following it up with a vote. Again, this isn't something SSBF can explain away and MacavityLock isn't going to come out and say "Gee folks, I sure am distancing pretty hard."
I wasn't being quiet because I was coasting or lacked "genuine interest," I was very interested. I just wasn't shouting out questions as the information was already being provided by MacavityLock. There's also the fact that RichardGHP was a terrific wagon I didn't have a strong read on prior to the claim with a potentially informative scumflip--made it better to let the wagon run its course while I looked at the people on the wagon.
I'm doing more reading than writing but I'm definitely not disinterested nor coasting. If you have questions, ask away.
"I find that Unsight has been picking up on scummy things that I agree with"
Thanks for this at least.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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"1. The Kleedrac lynch"Locke Lamora wrote:It's all very well to say you haven't been doing these things but, unsurprisingly, I can't read your mind. All I get to see is you saying 'that's scummy!' and then going quiet for a while until you spot someone else doing something scummy.
In any case, as you asked so nicely, I'd like to know what you think of the two main trends right now, namely:
1. The Kleedrac lynch
2. Percy for Hand of the King
I have mixed thoughts on it.
ISO 3 is bad and ISO 10 is scummy. Sudden tunneling on his attacker is a bad sign as well however Drippereth did misrep Kleedrac's stance on Richard here so it's not wholly OMGUS. Even then, I don't see him scumhunting. Say he's right and Drippereth is scum, that still leaves plenty others and he's not actually looking for any ofthem.
There are really only two reasons I haven't been on his wagon. The first was that he's a newbie. It's fairly common for scum in Newbie games to go after easy lynches because they won't put up a fight and often shoot themselves in the foot under little pressure. It's no different here where we have mixed skill levels. Ironically, Kleedrac killed this sentiment himself in this post recently. The second reason is that SSBF is a better lynch. I believe SSBF's flip will reflect very heavily on MacavityLock. Kleedrac's flip really only says something about the people on the Kleedrac wagon.
"2. Percy for Hand of the King "
I don't really think Hand of the King is that important in itself. It's just a good way to get a sense of peoples' town reads and my read on Percy is a weak one at best.
I agree with his opinions on Raivann and CMAR, but lots of little things bother me about his posts. He keeps making good points about CMAR only to wander away. He side-swipes Axelrod with a buddying accusation to CMAR and then never comes back to it. Neither CMAR nor Axel make his top 3 vote list (Hayker, Mig, and Vezo) and Axel is almost off the radar in ISO 7.
The other things that bug me are the people he's addressing or rather not addressing. He hasn't really thrown any hard questions at Cow, Drippereth, Benmage, or me. He also hasn't even mentioned CCA. Making large walls of text to address just about everyone in the game but leaving certain ones more or less out seems intentionally selective.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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No comment on my blurb about Percy ignoring you in 499?Drippereth wrote:CATCHING UP!
Scum can be genuinely pissed too. Anyway, I recall thinking you were scum somewhere earlier but I forgot why. I'll figure it out later.Raivan wrote: Call me a sucker, but I believe Kleedrac here. He seems to be genuinely pissed.
SSBF: DisagreeMcav wrote:SSBF: Scummy, due to apologizing for what is unnecessary to apologize for.
Magna: Scummier, due to latching on to "parroting" without looking at context, attempting an easy dig.
Magna: Agree
Miku is prob town.
dana is town.
lynchme is to.
ah bleh, barely anything's changed.
Kleedrac still needs to die.
Percy ignores Drippereth.
Drippereth ignores Percy.
Blatant buddying is scummy as hell and makes my skin crawl.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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Your "response" was to say you don't see what I was saying. Scum aren't going to see why they're scummy. You're obviously not going to admit to being scum and vote yourself so I'm not really interested in a back and forth with you that will end in the exact same place it started.Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:@Unsight: Despite having a vote on me, you've never really made a counter-response to a post early in the game (Will link if necessary). Your most direct reactions were your vote on me and basically saying that me and MacavityLock were scum buddies. Why do you not choose to counter-respond to that post if you think I'm your top suspect?
Are Percy and Drippereth town?Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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CSL wrote:Hi all. Yesterday night, and into early morning, I have re-read this game. However, I did forget to write down notes, so I'm going to just try to remember what my reads were. Here goes.
TOWN READS
Percy
Drippereth
Richard (claim believable)
Mina
SCUM READS
Kleedrac (Richard's claim is believable, so this guy looks scum)
Deer (He quit, and I have a scumread on him anyway)
danakillsu (Not been doing a good job, lately. I want to see him scumhunt a bit more)
Everyone else is either a neutral read, or lurkerscumbag
So, the following is as follows
VOTE: Kleedrac
Raise: Percy
As part of scum hunting, I analyze posts and then I vote someone. The analysis part comes before the vote part because it's how I know I'm voting scum.CSL wrote:Analyzing Kleedrac's 12 posts...
1: First post was random, but he was the first one to raise himself.
3: A case on CMAR. I do have a slight suspicion of CMAR, and a scumread on Kleedrac, and votes him. Also comes up with an excuse as to why he wasn't posting.
4: He didn't find anything scummy about Richard, while everyone and their grandmother were wanting his death at the time. SCUMMY.
5: Quotes Drippereth, and plays the clueless card. SCUMMY.
6: "Everyone else is scum" VERY SCUMMY.
7: Says again that CMAR is scum. Calls Drippereth on bad logic when everything they say is logic. SCUMMY
8: Don't assume all are scum. Your wish could come true in some game.
10: I SEE AN OMGUS VOTE! EXTRA SCUM POINTS FOR YOU!!!
11: Plays the newbie card. Scummy.
12: And after all that he did not answer anything.
Conclusion:Distancing and OMGUS votes are scum strategies that this guy didn't close up all the way. This guy is scum. CASE CLOSED. Why the hell isn't he lynched yet?
CSL did the exact opposite here. He votes Kleedrac and then analyzes Kleedrac's ISO.
FoS CSLGames are meant to be fun.-
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I saw one but not the other.Percy wrote:@Unsight: Could you explain to me why, when Mina and then explained it , this was not worthy of notice, but when CSL adopts the vote-then-case approach with Kleedrac, it's worth a FoS?
I don't like how you loaded that question with the assumption that I saw both and ignored one. That's pretty scummy--goes back to the difference between finding scum and painting scum I attacked Drippereth with in the very beginning.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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SSBF makes giant wall'o'text posts regardless of alignment. That wagon analysis is a null tell.Drippereth wrote:SSBF was town with that massive wagon analsys post from way back when..
I think CMAR's away sitewide but I remember thinking he was town.
Kleedrac wagon evaporation makes me sad. There's prob scum on this jump onto CMAR.
Oh wait let me check old votecounts.Games are meant to be fun.-
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@Drip - Just double-checked. I could have sworn there was a mafiascum.net game where he was scum and not just the Smash World one. Here's a page where you can see his play as scum in that game though.Games are meant to be fun.-
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I'm not getting the same scumvibes from it as from CSL's and here's why:Percy wrote:@Unsight: Now that you've seen it, what do you think of it?
Also, I think it's odd to criticise the order in which a case was presented without commenting on the substantive matter of the case itself, which is another reason I asked.
- Mina wasn't jumping onto a large wagon.
- Mina said in the first post that reasons were coming (implying they were there pre-vote).
- Mina's reasoning was more than an ISO number listing with a "yeah, that's scummy" next to most of them.
I comment on lots of odd things. The "how" and "why" are more important to me than the "what."Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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I've already said why I think he's town--his play mirrors his town play in Mafia 110 and his claim is highly believable.Percy wrote:
It's a best worst case scenario. Why do you think Richard is town?Unsight wrote:Why are all the votes shifting to someone who is most probably town?
Do you think SSBF should be the lynch for the day?
Also, I think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. What do the scum gain by choosing him as an NK target?
I would loooooove for SSBF to be the lynch for the day but apparently my ideas don't get steam unless they're restated with 5 times as many words like Julienvonwolfe did here.
I also think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. That's win/win to me. We get a vengeance kill or a confirmed townie for the game.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Unsight Goon
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I don't have much time to post so this is just a speed run of my thoughts having just read the last couple pages.
SSBF is still scummy and still worth lynching. VOTE: SSBF
The Vezo case has merit. Not sure if Vezo is scum, but his play is anti-town and hard for me to read.
Percy's Drippereth case deserves a full read by everyone. It's very good and I would support a Drippereth lynch based on it (mostly because it's something I'd have done if I had more time and someone else hadn't already done it).
I'll reread dana in light of the night's flips in the next day or two.
Also, I recommend everyone not only read who protected the late scum but who attacked the late townies. I will when I get time.Games are meant to be fun.-
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So I got a prod and that means I need to come back and find more scum so here you go:
LynchMePls is scum. He hops on the RichardGHP wagon shortly after 2 different posts saying he believes RichardGHP's claim. He hops on the Raivann wagon at the very tail end when it was almost certain Raivann was going to be the lynch and then goes back to RichardGHP as fast as possible (with his very next post).Drippereth wrote:LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change. So he gets the green.
LynchMePls also works with Drippereth to fight the Raivann wagon directly here. In fact, rereading LMP's ISO with regards to Drippereth is very interesting overall. I recommend it to everyone.
UNVOTE: SSBF
VOTE: LynchMePls
I'm still fine with a SSBF lynch but the Raivann <-> LynchMePls <-> Drippereth connection really isthatgood.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Life is good as I have free time again. Let me look at the dana wagon...Benmage wrote:And how do you feel about Dana, or vezo Unsight?
Percy - Percy's note that danakillsu was attempting to derail the Raivann wagon the most is spot-on. Drippereth is a close second with LMP coming in third.
Thor665 - Basically ditto's Percy.
Mikujin - Also ditto's Percy.
Axelrod - Similar to Percy's case but also points out flippage on RichardGHP (similar to LynchMePls actually).
RichardGHP - Reasonless vote. I have this theory that scum hunting ceases the moment someone becomes obv town...
xvart - xvart is great. He spotted what almost looks like a scumslip by danakillsu's ISO 15.
LynchMePls - This is the guy who raised danakillsu in his first post. Votes to "get some team cohesion going" but has been spending his time making SSBF and CSL cases. Can someone say "BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS!"
Vezokpiraka - No reasoning? Why is Vezo voting dana?
Benmage - Again no reasoning. Why is Benmage voting dana?
CSL - Votes to see if he's telling the truth about his claim. What?
It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.
I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why. Also, LMP is still scum.
Vezo is uber anti-town. He's just awful. I'd mention the p word but there are very scummy people who need lynching first.Games are meant to be fun.-
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"Pot, meet kettle."
Not really. The only thing I would have added to the discussion was added by xvart (the oddity in ISO 15).
"A yes or no question - do you find vezo scummy?"
If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous. Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flip as well as dana, drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.Thor665 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then? You go out of your way to bring him up, describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently not finding him scummy, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?Unsight wrote:If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.
Your entire post very much looks like either you haven't ISO'd me to actually know my thoughts so far, you're deliberately attempting to misrep me, or both.Games are meant to be fun.-
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I'm not ignoring anyone. I just had the unfortunate timing to be making my catchup post(s) at the exact time the thread was being locked for the event.MagnaofIllusion wrote:ATTENTION UNSIGHT –
You seem perfectly willing to ignore questions directly put to you.
The short answer is that I didn't vote Drippereth because I was voting SSBF. The long answer is that I prefer lynches that provide stronger reflection. Given more than one suspect, I prefer to lynch the one that yields the most information.MagnaofIllusion wrote:While you are addressing whatever open questions LMP has for you also please comment and answer regarding the following –
MoI wrote:You’ve already previously indicated you think Percy and DripHydra were buddying scum at your ISO 8 and infer that SSBF also is a scum partner to Drip at ISO 10. At ISO 21 you apparently reverse course on Percy being a DripHydra scum-partner and praise Percy’s case as something you would support Drip’s lynch based on. You haven’t mentioned LynchMe before this post at all. You’ve stated on multiple occasions that you suspect Drip to be scum. Why didn’t you vote Drip based on your longstanding suspicion based on this paring? Especially given the suspicion his slot has drawn from multiple other sources.
Also, I did not mention LMP prior to the post in which I did for two reasons: First, I did not have time to fully analyze the previous day with flips at the time of my first post on Day 2 (something I mention in the post itself). Obviously my case on SSBF was and is unchanged from Day 1 however. Second, the evidence against LMP (Raivann flip + wagon analysis + Ser Loras flip) was not available until Day 2 and not available to me until I reread which I did between the linked post and my next one.Games are meant to be fun.-
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"Why do you find it unreasonable?"Thor665 wrote:
I am well aware of this, please refer to my post where I bolded and underlined the relevant statements. I agree that anti-town and scummy are two different things and made it clear in my commentary that I understood this and accurately represented what it was you said.Unsight wrote:
Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous.Thor665 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then?Unsight wrote:If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.Yougo out of your way to bring him up,describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?notfinding him scummy
I see no problem with me asking you to restate your suspicions from time to time for my personal clarity's sake. Why do you find it unreasonable?Unsight wrote:Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flip as well as dana, drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.
I believe I addressed both accusations and will now dismiss them fully with a hearty belly laugh - HAH HAH!Unsight wrote:Your entire post very much looks like either you haven't ISO'd me to actually know my thoughts so far, you're deliberately attempting to misrep me, or both.
I'll also note in your counter attack on me you didn't actually answer the question I posed to you - why the soft sell attack on Vezo if you don't want him lynched and have a list of roughly three people to lynch prior to him? I don't care for soft selling because it appears you're trying to strengthen a case without actually weighing in on it. The fact dana has now taken up the vezo case continues to give me jitters in that regard.
I just find it more annoying than unreasonable. I would rather be spending my time rereading ISO's, looking for more scum, and finding more connections than restating my suspicions especially since I make it a point to be transparent with them so my ISO is highly readable.
"you didn't actually answer the question I posed to you"
Maybe I'm not sure what kind of answer you want. I'm in two games with vezo. In both games he's unhelpful, wagons shamelessly, gives no reasons for voting, and basically contributes nothing to the discussion... and I believe that's his town playstyle. If I didn't have a laundry list of people I'm fairly certain are scum then I would be pressing him harder and, as it stands, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked him in this post.Games are meant to be fun.-
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I looked in your ISO and found this:hasdgfas wrote:Unless I missed something, you never answered my question to you..
Of course not, however their reason is important because they need to explain why the person is vote-worthy now as opposed to the wagon started. For example, if someone is going to ditto Percy's case right now, they need to explain why they weren't willing to ditto it a week ago. Obviously something had to have changed in that time period.hasdgfas wrote:would you rather the "blatant wagoners" made a case that was exactly the same as someone else's?Games are meant to be fun.-
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You answer your first sentence with your second sentence. I believe we have two scum teams but I don't believe all my suspects are on the same one. I can see Dana and LMP being on a team with Raivann and I can see SSBF and MacCavityLock being on a team. I can see Drip being with SSBF or Raivann.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
And yet you don’t explain how lynching LMP will provide more information than a DripHydra lynch. Especially since you’ve linked Drip to several players but LMP only to Drip.Unsight wrote:The long answer is that I prefer lynches that provide stronger reflection. Given more than one suspect, I prefer to lynch the one that yields the most information.
You need to realize that my repeatedly mentioning my suspicions of Drip is my way of acting on them. I have a single vote so I pick one of my suspects that yields good information on flip and vote them, but I don't stop talking about the other people I think are scum nor do I stop looking for the rest of the scum. I don't keep mentioning Drip because I'm distancing, I keep mentioning him because I'm suspicious of him and, up until Percy made his case, I was one of the few even talking about him.MagnaofIllusion wrote:Looks more like a distancing tactic. You repeatedly mention your suspicions of Drip but never move at all to act on them. Scummy.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Copy/Paste.Percy wrote:@Unsight:
I'm quoting this because I'd really like you to answer the original question. Whilst anti-town and scum are not the same thing, theyThor665 1176 wrote:
I am well aware of this, please refer to my post where I bolded and underlined the relevant statements. I agree that anti-town and scummy are two different things and made it clear in my commentary that I understood this and accurately represented what it was you said.Unsight wrote:
Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous.Thor665 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then?Unsight wrote:If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.Yougo out of your way to bring him up,describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?notfinding him scummyarecorrelated; at the moment, the tactical interpretation of this read is the only one that is clear to me.
Unsight wrote:"you didn't actually answer the question I posed to you"
Maybe I'm not sure what kind of answer you want. I'm in two games with vezo. In both games he's unhelpful, wagons shamelessly, gives no reasons for voting, and basically contributes nothing to the discussion... and I believe that's his town playstyle. If I didn't have a laundry list of people I'm fairly certain are scum then I would be pressing him harder and, as it stands, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked him in this post.Games are meant to be fun.-
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That post was made 8 days before the deadline and would have put dana at L-1 (IIRC). I have no interest in seeing the day cut short when there's plenty to talk about. For example, you responded to my above post but not the post where I asked for your reasoning in voting dana.Benmage wrote:
If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?Unsight wrote:
Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous. Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flipThor665 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then? You go out of your way to bring him up, describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently not finding him scummy, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. IUnsight wrote:If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.f there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?as well as dana,drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.
I'll ask again for clarity: What made you vote for dana? Specifically, your vote was over a week after the first vote on dana so what convinced you dana was scum in between Percy's first vote and yours?Games are meant to be fun.-
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I don't think that word means what you think it means.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
It’s now 2 days til deadline. Is your suggestion that you support a dana lynch just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him?Unsight wrote:
That post was made 8 days before the deadline and would have put dana at L-1 (IIRC). I have no interest in seeing the day cut short when there's plenty to talk about.Benmage wrote:If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?
That is, you're using the phrase "fence-sitting" incorrectly. Fence-sitting is when you have two positions on a subject and someone chooses to take neither of them. Since you are on neither side of the fence, you are effectively sitting on the fence.
This doesn't apply to my position of Dana as I have said a couple times now that I support a Dana lynch. I have clearly taken a position. What I have not done is rush the day. I could have voted Dana a week ago and put him at L-1. Doing so brings the day one vote closer to its end and doesn't help me scum hunt. Conversely, I can vote and pressure other suspects, extend the day to continue scumhunting, and still vote dana at a later time which is win/win/win for the town.
Now, your saying that "just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him" is spectacularly stupid logic. By that logic, everyone with a suspect they're not voting for is fence-sitting. You attempted a similarly poor argument regarding my suspicion on Drip where you attempted to say my not voting him meant I was distancing him which I swiftly responded to and now you're doing it again.
Did you not learn anything from that response? Let me spell it out for you: You can pressure people with your vote, you can pressure people without a vote, and you can even be suspicious of people other than the single person you are voting for.
Now, the deadline is in 2 days and I usually go V/LA over the weekend which means I may not be here for it. I'm happy with a Dana lynch and I'll put my vote next to it.
VOTE: danakillsuGames are meant to be fun.-
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Step Forward
I'm glad Baltar hydra'd into MacCavityLock's slot. Despite his habit of mangling quotes, he's far more direct in his buddying with SSBF as evidenced in his trying to convince the dayvig to shoot vezo or, rather, not shoot SSBF.
Also:
This quote reveals two things. The first is that Baltar is actually trying to bank on scum actions which is never a good sign. The second is that Baltar doesn't want SSBF lynched. If Vezo is dayvigged then the natural lynch goes to SSBF. Baltar is already looking ahead to SSBF being investigated despite having just said this in the previous post:Macavitar wrote:Or you can do the smart thing and either confirm or condemn some cannon fodder. Regardless of Percy's alignment, scum aren't going to want him around (WIFOM). He's not lynchable and he has two votes. Therefore, he's a threat. Why don't we let the scum take care of him? The smarter move in this situation is to investigate someone who appears scummy and is a perennial lynch candidate (SSBF for example). If he gets confirmed as town, then the scum have to kill him, thus saving better scum hunters for later in the game. If he's scum, well booya. Somehow I doubt that you don't see the optimum town strategy in this situation and are still town. You're really starting to worry me benmage.
So Baltar, why are you listing SSBF as one of your biggest scum reads but pushing to not have him dayvigged and also planning not to lynch him?Macavitar wrote:Well, this is the MacavityLock portion of the hydra signing off, and passing the torch to Baltar for now. My biggest scum reads:
vezo and SSBF - Same basic reasons as yesterday.
CSL - Coming down on Mina for the non-hammer of dana. Mina's action wasn't scummy then, and pointing it out as scummy and setting up Mina makes perfect sense if CSL is dana's scumbuddy.
FWIW, I called the SSBF/MacCavityLock shenanigans on day 1:
You scum buddies are still funny.Unsight wrote:
The same MacavityLock who suddenly perked up when I vote you but still manages to put you in his dislikes? You scum buddies are funny.Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Defindentlyunraise. I have a few pro-town reads now.
I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. AlthoughDrippereth wrote:We have a question.
Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead, you're not a bad choice either.
VOTE: SSBFGames are meant to be fun.-
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I'd like you to explain further.hasdgfas wrote:
LOGIC ERRORSSBF wrote:
If we investigate a person that is hard to read and turns up town, we would end up wasting an investigate that could be used on people that the majority suspect, which would yield more information. Not only that, the scum would have to kill that townie that the majority previously suspected. It helps town more to investigate someone scummy then someone with a null read.hasdgfas wrote:Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.
DOES NOT COMPUTE
correct play isinvestigate someone scummy. Would you like me to explain further? I can, but it just seems so obvious.never
Investigating someone scummy is good for four reasons:
1) If town then it saves the town from a mislynch that most certainly would have happened.
2) If town then it adds to the pool of hard-to-lynch/pro-town people--I'd rather move a townie from the very easy lynch pool to the very hard lynch pool than middle to hard because it makes it harder for scum.
3) Scummy people are scummy in the first place for a reason. Investigating the scummiest means you're most likely to catch scum.
4) Scummy people are least likely to be NK'd because scum want them around for mislynching during the day.
Light a candle for: hasdgfas
I would also support lighting a candle for Macavitar.
@mod:Is this the same reveal as the role cop reveal mentioned with the Stepforward thing or a different one?
Mod ~ Correct. You step forwarded to nominate yourselves for the investigation. Lighting/Dousing is basically Vote/Unvote with flavour and separation from the lynch.Last edited by Eddard Stark on Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.Benmage wrote:
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Cow was the best one to make holy.
(Gonna go iso SSBF)Games are meant to be fun.-
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Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.Rifka Viveka wrote:
For the WIFOM value?Mina wrote:
Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?
Actually, i was curious to see if magnaofillusion would actually follow up on that suspicion of me, but didnt make the slightest effort to do so. Reading his ISO, he seems to have an entirely reactionary playing, sharply making points on posts throughout the game, but never seeming to actually initiate attacks(my perception anyway) difficult player for me getting a read on... Plus, being confirmed=sit back and have a lemonade in the shade as far as defending goes
Im pretty sure i know what the follow up responses to this^ will be(im cynical like that), but ill let you state it in your own words
Also, what value is there for the town in meaningless WIFOM? Who are you helping with that? If you're pro-town then it's in your best interest to scan someone who might be scum, not generate meaningless WIFOM and play for town cred. That's scum behavior.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Where do you feel you've spent the majority of your attention?Benmage wrote:
I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.Unsight wrote:
Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.Benmage wrote:
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Cow was the best one to make holy.
(Gonna go iso SSBF)Games are meant to be fun.-
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Of course. I usually do so right after day begins if I have time and especially so if there's relevant new information (such as a scumflip). That said, I don't need to run out and ISO someone when they get a wagon like you apparently do. So what are your pre-ISO thoughts on SSBF? Do you have any?Benmage wrote:@Unsight, do you iso living players?Games are meant to be fun.-
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Moving the goal posts is a mighty convenient way of backpedaling.Rifka Viveka wrote:
I disagree...the ''attacks'' on you were more responsive in nature, i feel...and thats fine, its a style. When i think of attack i think of percy wall post on d2 starting, thats not a violent reaction to a scummy post, but a heavy push.Unsight wrote: Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.Games are meant to be fun.-
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In smaller games, definitely.Benmage wrote:@Unsight,You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?
In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.Games are meant to be fun.-
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"Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina."Macavitar wrote:
What questions are those exactly? I don't see any addressed directly to me. If you're referring to why I would switch to hascow over Mikujin, well I think that by the time I switched it was self-evident that hascow's investigation was going to happen either way. May as well speed things up. I think you said something about people not arguing for other targets, but I stated pretty clearly why I felt Mikujin was a good investigation target. If the mass of town doesn't want to follow that, so be it. The reasoning was provided. Second, I stated way earlier that hascow was an acceptable investigation to me. If the town was going there regardless of what I said, then I'm not going to waste my time typing out a huge post that isn't going to mean anything anyhow. Mikujin still looks scummy to me, but we'll just have to lynch him straight up now.Mina wrote:I shouldn't give players like MoI and Macavitar alibis before answering my questions.
Also, I asked you the question about white knighting in other games...not diddin I'll review them as soon as I get some time.
95% of this game is WIFOM. Stop dodging questions and freaking answer them. Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina. I honestly don't see how I could be highlighting Miku's scummy behavior anymore than I already am.Mikujin wrote:The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).
What is the purpose of addressing Mina specifically here?Games are meant to be fun.-
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If it we were just starting Day 2. Midway through Day 3, not so much. It's reasonable that you would have a read on SSBF that doesn't require an immediate ISO. That's what makes it problematic. Saying "gonna go iso him" now sounds like you were ignoring him up until now.Benmage wrote:
Ah yes time is always the problem.Unsight wrote:
In smaller games, definitely.Benmage wrote:@Unsight,You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?
In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.
Let us review: You complain about me going to iso SSBF, simply because you as a subjective person prefer to iso at the start of the day, giving time constraints. And would in an ideal situation iso everyone. Starting with dead to prime suspects and so on and so forth.
Now I said my attention has been elsewhere, but that I have been meaning to/wanting to iso SSBF. Sounds like a time issue on my side, no?
Now as we, who are constrained by time, finally get free moments we must choose how to best use our time to be most advantageous. Would not a rolling wagon on someone one has desired to refer to be a good use of this time?Games are meant to be fun.-
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The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.Benmage wrote:The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.(Note this is part of a grand process)Games are meant to be fun.-
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This is what bothers me:Benmage wrote:
Let's not play Cat n Mouse Unsight. What is shocking? Do not be subtle in your next post.Unsight wrote:
The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.Benmage wrote:The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.(Note this is part of a grand process)
Where do you think my motives are?
What alignment do you believe me to be?
Benmage wrote:I don't wanna lynch CSL, and I'd have to review SSBF before committing there.Benmage wrote:
Oooooo see, I didn't reread SSBF yet and I do recall oddness with this(people talking about it). Good point.diddin wrote:
I think he's a Greyjoy, as shown by his reluctance to vote Raivann and just his overall scumminess.Benmage wrote:Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.
I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching him and of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?Benmage wrote:(Gonna go iso SSBF)
As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.Games are meant to be fun.-
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My only alignment is Town (or Innocent as my role pm puts it) so your vote on me is catching no scum.MagnaofIllusion wrote:In conclusion I’m not sure that I have any better a feel for Unsight as either scum-team. He made zero interactions with Raivann Day 1 and did threw some mild accusations towards Percy without following up on them at all. Day 1 Unsight also made some early accusations against dana that let nowhere. Day 2 changes opinion on Percy 180 degrees and has to be dragged kicking in screaming to the dana wagon. I could see Unsight as either alignment.
My point to dana was the result of something I saw while reading his meta--this post is where he admits to a newbie playstyle. I figured I'd call him on it early and see what he did.
As for the dana wagon as a whole, let me quote my response to you so you might actually read it this time:
Unsight wrote:
I don't think that word means what you think it means.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
It’s now 2 days til deadline. Is your suggestion that you support a dana lynch just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him?Unsight wrote:
That post was made 8 days before the deadline and would have put dana at L-1 (IIRC). I have no interest in seeing the day cut short when there's plenty to talk about.Benmage wrote:If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?
That is, you're using the phrase "fence-sitting" incorrectly. Fence-sitting is when you have two positions on a subject and someone chooses to take neither of them. Since you are on neither side of the fence, you are effectively sitting on the fence.
This doesn't apply to my position of Dana as I have said a couple times now that I support a Dana lynch. I have clearly taken a position. What I have not done is rush the day. I could have voted Dana a week ago and put him at L-1. Doing so brings the day one vote closer to its end and doesn't help me scum hunt. Conversely, I can vote and pressure other suspects, extend the day to continue scumhunting, and still vote dana at a later time which is win/win/win for the town.
Now, your saying that "just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him" is spectacularly stupid logic. By that logic, everyone with a suspect they're not voting for is fence-sitting. You attempted a similarly poor argument regarding my suspicion on Drip where you attempted to say my not voting him meant I was distancing him which I swiftly responded to and now you're doing it again.
Did you not learn anything from that response? Let me spell it out for you: You can pressure people with your vote, you can pressure people without a vote, and you can even be suspicious of people other than the single person you are voting for.
Now, the deadline is in 2 days and I usually go V/LA over the weekend which means I may not be here for it. I'm happy with a Dana lynch and I'll put my vote next to it.
VOTE: danakillsuGames are meant to be fun.-
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So regardless of how many others had a scum read on him, it still took you this long to get around to rereading him?Benmage wrote:
Yes, becauseUnsight wrote:I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching himand of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?I didn't have a scum read on him whereas others did.My lack of scum read gave me little desire to review him before the many other things I've been doing/want to do. So a week is null if hes low on my priority list. But he was nonetheless always on my agenda and now being the leading wagon (and me without concrete direction(although this is changing)) he moved up in priority.
In the second am I the scum or am I the town?Unsight wrote: As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.
You're the scum. Defending someone while not having read them is a knowing-too-much tell regardless of the defendee's alignment.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Exactly what it appears to be and yes. You've come at me twice with misplaced suspicion and exceedingly poor logic only to basically ignore my responses. I'm pretty sure by now you've stopped actually listening to anything I have to say so I'm not sure what else I can say.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
What is the purpose of this statement? Should we just take your word for it? And why go out of the way to claim Innocent when you have exactly 1 vote on you (at the time you made this post)?Unsight wrote:My only alignment is Town (or Innocent as my role pm puts it) so your vote on me is catching no scum.Games are meant to be fun.-
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OMGUS is lame. I called you on being scum with SSBF day 1 and you're pushing my lynch harder than ever since SSBF was gathering votes proving the point so I have a better idea--lynch SSBF and his faketastic claim and lynch you when he flips scum.Macavitar wrote:I suggest we start casting votes and get real pressure going (preferably on Unsight) so discussion will pick up again.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Hand scum a list of people and they're going to shoot the people not on their team. At that point you're basically handing him a get-out-of-lynch card that says "Not only do you get to live another day or two, but you can continue shooting town too!"hasdgfas wrote:
This makes no sense. We'd be giving him a list of people we think are scum. Therefore, it doesn't matter ifAxelrod wrote: But strong feeling is that if we are not going to lynch a good SK candidate in SSBF under the pretense of "directing" his kill, then we should NOT be giving him an entire list of people to pick from. We should give him precisely 1 name. Otherwise, he's got the flexibility and leeway to try and kill the person he thinks (or maybe knows?) is Town out of the "list" we are giving him. And at this point the SK is going to be strongly motivated to kill Town if he can.hethinks they're town, because the town as a whole thinks they're scum.Games are meant to be fun.-
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Anyway, I am Ser Davos Seaworth, Innocent Aligned. I'm an ONION KNIGHT. I have no idea what that is or why it's capitalized (never read the books), but apparently he nearly died and is really cool. I think that's all I can say without directly quoting my PM and getting modkilled.
Also, I have a vote and no other abilities.
I'll be V/LA over the weekend so if I live great, if I die I wish the town good luck. FWIW, my suspects are SSBF, Macavitar, and Magnaofillusion. The first two because I'm still pretty sure they're scum buddies and the last because he's been tunneling on me for the last dozen pages for idiotic reasons (like distancing Drippereth, being suspicious of people other than the single person I'm voting, and more) and it's too reaching to be scumhunting versus scum framing.
I'll be here for another 30 minutes or so while I'll check out my other game if anyone has questions for me before I go.Games are meant to be fun.-
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3rd option: He's lying about his kills.Thor665 wrote:Of course you're advancing the logic that he is lying, that goes without saying.
But what Locke was driving at was that you commented how SSBF was still scum - how do you justify this considering he's killed scum, one of each scum faction we're aware of? Either you're advancing a belief in a third scum team or you believe SSBF killed a scumbuddy - which is it and why?Games are meant to be fun.-
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