Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Iecerint]

@ MO, mortals' worship votes count for more (not sure how much more), so that's the basis of your count being off. Or that's at least part of the story.

[Iecerint]

The latter. I figure it's minimally problematic for me to give the information out since everyone's already speculated openly about my divinity and so on.

[Iecerint]

(EBWOP: Not to mention what would result if people started openly wondering along with you. <_<)

[Iecerint]

Final note: Massclaim may be in order here.

OK, so, I get that you mostly just want to find the GF, but ye know. Be a little more subtle. <_<

[Iecerint]

Al, d'ya think Sky's the cult leader (y/n/m)?

[Iecerint]

I worshipped the

Egyptians

.

The number of Norse votes is a little weird. Same with JC, as ooba indicated.

@Fate/Iecerint:

SpyreX/ABR said to worship The GOO. If you were watching, you might've noticed that.

1. No, he didn't say that. He said to worship anyone but the Norse.
2. Why are you directing this at me.

I think, that as our best course if action, is to vote out/remove Mina. There are many things that could be happening (I, for one, think it's possible that Plum may be right and there may be a secret cult. PF and I talked about this before he went V/LA.) There may be any number of reasons why Mina is in Limbo, but I'd rather not leave anthing to chance (I wanted to say Fate SOOOOO badly..) and have this turn ourt badly for us.

lol

Vote: DarkStalker

[Iecerint]

Presuming that DTM is a "modified lyncher" just like Tar (as they claim), cult did not recruit N1.

[Iecerint]

^ Who did you used to be, VV?

[Iecerint]

One close-to-obvtown player removed from the game by dumb town is quite enough, thank you.

[Iecerint]

DS (players listed in sig) and MO (Zorblag and PapaZito) are hydras.

The only other piece of the puzzle is that Faraday mistakenly posts on J-Scope a few times.

[Iecerint]

It should be clear from what was said yesterday anyhow but at this point I'll make it official that I've got a quick topic with Mina.

Where's this?

Al, d'ya think Sky's the cult leader (y/n/m)?

Reminding Al.

[Iecerint]

Please claim whether or not there's at least 1 other person in your QT. That way (assuming the answer is yes) I'll know that the risk of shenanigans is low.

Or explicitly refuse to do so if this is no good.

And/Or give me the narrative from D1 that you're talking about. Mina having a QT without daytalk was pretty clear, but her link to you (other than that you defended her, which doesn't quite indicate a shared QT) is something I didn't notice yesterday.

D'ya know whether Mina'll still be able to post in the QT at Night?

[Iecerint]

I just ctrl+f Mina'd your iso, and I get that you understood that Mina had a QT without daytalk (as I'd already understood), but I picked up on that on my own, too, so....

Meh, forget I asked anything. Probability of shenanigans is fairly low. There's a chance Mina can come back, anyway, in which case he'd be screwed. There's always the chance that he knows she can't come back or whatever, but ye know.

Did Mina give you any of her would-be ABR post N1?

[Iecerint]

Not much else I can say right now. Also Fate is still 3rd party and Nikanor is still 3rd party as well.

This is mathematically impossible, unless ABR is scum.

ABR, answer my question about Sky.

[Iecerint]

I see. I thought Sky being identified with the Cult Leader might indicate a way you could know him in spite of being town. And if the modified cult has restrictions with regard to who they can recruit (i.e. one version of "modified"), that would've contextualized his question regarding which of us was a specific rolename. <_<

[Iecerint]

^ Sorry. I don't believe it's significant to me, no.

[Iecerint]

/slap TNM

[Iecerint]

Given Mina's relatively obvtown play, the main information that would result from MO answering that question affirmatively (i.e. the only informative case) is that it greatly increases the probability that MO is confirmed town.

If MO is actually scum, it would be a lie, so the question is not useful in that case.
If MO is town, this information is most useful to scum, because town can't differentiate these two cases as easily.

[Iecerint]

Scum is more likely to NK MO if he is confirmed town.

[Iecerint]

@ VV, the Sky saga is explicated in my posts.

[Iecerint]

@ Fate/P -- what information on VV would have necessitated a claim? I mean, if you tracked him, you saw him target a sketchy player. If it was something else, nothing VV just said would have affected matters. Use discretion as you answer, of course, but I don't understand.

I would not be unsympathetic to a wagon on dram. Would reread before I switched, though.

Regarding the Neighborization. Hmm. I may have something to say on that issue later.

[Iecerint]

You thought Niki was town? O.o

But even with that, that's a shaky reason to ask someone to claim.

The outcome was fine; it's the steps that got us there that are a little fishy.

I'm voting DS.

[Iecerint]

Whatever will we do without you requesting claims out of nowhere.

I do not dislike your dram wagon as such, nor have I intimated as much.

[Iecerint]

I think Plum's reaction to your NK is one of the only plumTown things I have noticed all game.

[Iecerint]

1. dram's post is incredibly misleading. ooba changed his opinion during the course of D1 on account of new information.

2. Parama and Chrono are either scummy or not very good at critical thinking for giving dram +like points secondary to his post.

3. Chrono is extra scummy because he is involving in publicizing anti-town deduction. Trying to be helpful without evaluating whether his information is information that should be made public.

4. Which ooba post are you talking about @ Chrono. He hasn't posted 180 times, and post 180 is MO's.

[Iecerint]

This is a very dumb idea.

Chrono claiming that was also a dumb idea.

The best way to worship is to worship whoever has the highest implicit town:scum ratio and presume balance otherwise.

[Iecerint]

@ 1028, massclaim on D2 of a large game is anti-town. It helps Tar because it might let him find the GF and get a lynch before he dies and loses, but it doesn't help the town (in most games).

Re: mathematically impossible, looking back now, I can't remember why they couldn't be the cult leader and survivor in some order. I remember being convinced of it, though.

Do NOT send in your worship until we see how the dead players flip. <_<

[Iecerint]

Based on his questions about remaining unburied, I'd bet he can only revive players who are yet to have their alignment flipped. SX will have already flipped by the time Egypt gets worship. This is assuming that flipping puts you in the graveyard.

The probability of some kind of roleblocker is very high.

[Iecerint]

Even beyond that, you'd almost certainly be roleblocked if it ever came to you using that ability to resurrect confirmed town.

@ MO, I'm relying on the assumption that the game is designed to be null or pro-scum to massclaim early. This is just based on site meta.

[Iecerint]

1. Don't forget the red color, dram.
2. I'm pretty sure he said I was town right after I published the Sky saga D1. He also changed his mind on Mina around the same time IIRC. SK being town D2 is because MO claimed a result.
3. I can't remember your other examples, but the fact that you listed all of these as examples of an (implicitly) unexplained/scummy flip-flop when new information clearly informed at least those 3 implies not thinking carefully or deliberately inflating any conceivable case against ooba.

In fact, that's enough for me to vote you over DS, though I remain sympathetic to the DS wagon.

Unvote; Vote: dramonic

. His post claiming ooba flip-flopped on that set of players deliberately ignored the fact that specific circumstances changed each of those reads (or at least a subset of them; I haven't gone through and checked each one yet).

[Iecerint]

OK, I've gone back to read ooba's iso. dram is KIND OF right -- he's still pushing the interpretation a little re: me, but not as much as I remembered. I DO think ooba's view of me starts to change after the infodump, but not quite the way I remembered:

@ Iece
- You did follow up on Mina.
- Disagree on the scumMina implies scumO or scumDTM. Do not think a scumMina would even mention this if she knew they were recruited.
- 601 - “He asked which of the players in the QT had a specific rolename, and he told us that we shouldn't worship ABR.” – Did he say you shouldn’t worship as per ABR’s plan or worship ABR as such?
- 666 - “Ooba's switch to voting me when I basically posted an expanded version of his case on CMAR did make me O.o a little.” - I thought I voted only CMAR and Mina the entire game.

~~~

I am not sure of what to make about Iece's info dump. I can see ABR-Iece as people with opposing wincons or something.

~~~

I agree with Iece that CMAR's play is different this game.

I cannot describe it in words. While I wouldn't attribute that evil joker picture to his play, it certainly is off. Not my primary candidate for a lynch, but CMAR is someone to keep an eye on.

While I am surprised at Iece choosing to pursue this case and voting CMAR over other people he finds suspicious, his case exactly isn't out of thin air.

In the first. his rhetoric is like someone expressing a difference of opinion rather than a perceived conversation with scum. He also shows evidence of taking my infodump seriously by asking an (important IMO) detail that I hadn't quite made clear. (I mention the latter just because it gave him +like points independent of dram's concerns.)

In the second, it looks like he's thinking I was 3rd party with ABR or something. This is the part that's a little different from how I remembered it.

In the third, he defends my view of CMAR in a kind of unnecessary way (except that it's consistent with his earlier CMAR mini-case, I guess), consistent with thinking I'm not a nasty person.

But you're right; he still wanted to kill Mina in his penultimate post. That's a good point.

I would like ooba to justify the evolution of his reads on the players dram listed in more detail (i.e. more than "who they talked about and didn't."

[Iecerint]

Also:

1. Want to hear from the new Percy.
2. Want to hear from the new O.

[Iecerint]

@ MO, my thinking is that operating from presumed balance gives the scum no information whatsoever and probably has the comparable effect. The effect may even be better than that from choosing "good" worship abilities, because there's less risk that scum would be able to manipulate the worship in their favor (e.g. by fakeclaiming "good" abilities, or by having protown-seeming abilities, etc). (This is different from most "avoid scum manipulation!" arguments because the balance assumption DOES suggest non-random, deterministic worship.)

The flipside is that there may NOT be balance to start (which is maybe possible since there's already lots of QTs claimed, but GOO doesn't appear to have a QT, which implies a certain kind of asymmetry).

Hmm, I'll wait to see what others think.

@ VV, you have to make votes with Red test. use

and then [/ color].

[Iecerint]

By the logic in your second paragraph, claiming is in general advantageous for town. I suppose they probably have a little more information than usual via the QTs, though, if players were unsmart.

[Iecerint]

Iec is AGAINST mass god claim? Huh imagine that.

Is your implication that it is scummy to be against everyone claiming what appear to all be power roles? Why do you think that?

OH HAI SOCRATES. Yeah I agree on Iec, its just that there are better targets right now.

Is this Alba? Make it clearer which player slot this means.

I'd have to see a vote count but I don't think my dram wagon has any speed on it.

I joined it.

I dislike the wagon on TNM.

[Iecerint]

I like part of this post so much so I have to repost it:

Unvote. Vote: totallynotmafia.

Snow_Bunny is jester serial killer. tnm is mafia.

Also, I'm inclined to say that if something makes no sense as either alignment, it's probable that the person in question is hiding something that makes the action make sense.

I totally agree with the bolded. But I don't see what it has to do with the rest of your post.

[Iecerint]

Uh, if you're not reading my posts, why are you weakly championing my lynch?

If you read my posts, you'd know that assuming balanced god factions will imply ideal town worship without outing a bunch of roles and having scum inject noise to mess us up. You make it sound like there is no alternate plan.

We've had at least 2 players claim to be OMG SO BROKEN when they get worship. (Granted, one was exploded or something by SB.) So I mean.

[Iecerint]

@ DTM, which and what are you talking about?

[Iecerint]

He's focusing on you for the same reason that I focused on you D1 (i.e. you are asking him things, he is responding, you are asking more things, etc).

^ My take on that bit.

[Iecerint]

ALERT ALERT ALERT

USE RED TO VOTE.

ALERT ALERT ALERT

[Iecerint]

1. Ooba, you probably could have asked Chrono (or did you?). He's the living player who's outright claimed a faction (Egyptian).

2. Am somewhat amused by Alba (twice!) making big posts about largely irrelevant things and then finishing by voting me. And simultaneously saying that Mina was town! Makes no sense.

3. Faraday, did you ever actually read GM? You said you would ages ago, but I asked you about it a bit ago, and I don't you ever responded.

[Iecerint]

Are you officially claiming modified survivor?

[Iecerint]

Way to totally fail. You might as well argue that scumhunting is "rolefishing."

You've softclaimed repeatedly that you win with scum (often in a "jokey" fashion). 1283 reads like taking your other foot out of the closet.

[Iecerint]

No, dummy. This is what happened:

ABR: The survivor has not claimed yet. Maybe he is sketch.
Fate (who has breadcrumbed survivor): I am a survivor. JOKEJOKEJOKE.
Iec: Uh, are you saying you're the survivor, or are you just continuing your anti-town behavior without literally being an anti-town role?
Fate: OMG ROLEFISHING!

Your last comment is awful for obvious reasons. I analogized it with the following to make clear why:

Scum: I am scum.
Iec (to scum): For real?
Scum: OMG ROLEFISHING!

My interpretation is that you set up your survivor crumbs -- whether because you're an actual survivor of some kind or an anti-towner role -- and panicked when ABR starting using rhetoric that would set-up an anti-town interpretation of the "modified survivor" role.

[Iecerint]

Your 2SCUM4SCUM response to any scrutiny placed on you -- including scrutiny that doesn't even assert that you are scum -- baffles me.

[Iecerint]

Also: IEC DEMANDS QT ATTENTION AS INDICATED.

[Iecerint]

Back!

There's no guarantee this game will make it to lylo. Fate is approaching suspension of disbelief for intentional-scumminess-as-town.

I have crap daytalkers.

[Iecerint]

@ dram

1. It depends on the scum win condition. Survivor lynching may be only marginally less good than a total mislynch for scum. 3rd party lynches also generate less information for town.
2. Even that aside, bizarreness is parsimoniously attributed to scum alignment IMO, anyway.

That doesn't mean he's the automatic lynch, but these constant 2SCUM4SCUM excuses for his behavior can only go so far.

[Iecerint]

I think it's from when he was like "let's lynch whoever; then you can worship me and I'll fix any mistakes we make via resurrection" plan. Katy also speculated that he's the cult leader and can revive/recruit from the dead, which seems more than a little swingy, but ye never know.

People have countered the former by claiming 2SCUM4SCUM IIRC. Or maybe I just imagined it; it seems like there's a lot of scummy behavior that's just kinda gliding by. <_<

[Iecerint]

^ What do you mean?

[Iecerint]

^ Yep, that's pretty much what I said. You did something pretty scummy, and people decided that it was too scummy for scum to have done it.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Oh, add in the bit about rushing to lynch to fix it, but it's just another example of doing something scummy -> 2SCUM4SCUM.

[Iecerint]

Here's my comments on all the players. This is PURELY from memory:

1. BlazeRb (replacing Starbuck) -- Starbuck was a low-output player, which matches her town play in Lay of Leithian. I have mixed feelings.
2. Faraday - I don't like his failure to follow-up on promised reads of other games. Scummy.
3. ABR - Really bizarre play D1. But his information appears to check out, and it's quite pro-town. He appears to have a relation to Sky, a player who posted in my QT anonymously who I mentioned during D1 of the game. Townish read overall.
4. manho - Scummy play. Few posts indicate careful thought process. Ooba has claimed a secret towntell, which is good enough for me.
5. dramonic - I can't remember a time when dram seemed town to me. This game isn't an exception.
6. chronopie - Similar to manho, except more transparently anti-town suggestions emerge.
7. Fate - Extremely anti-town in tone.
8. ooba - I think his hunting on CMAR was real. dram has pointed out that his reads have changed a lot since D1, but at least some of those changes make sense IMO. I really liked his D2 town/scum list. Town.
9. Mighty Orbots - 100% Town. I don't think scum would have corrected our read on SK as such, especially seeing as he did it before we knew there was only 1 scumteam given the "Set" name.
10. Parama - Very similar to manho. Shows poor interest in the game. Showed uncommon interest in Niki earlier, if I'm not mistaken.
11. Plum - Modified Survivor. She wins so long as she stays alive. Town probably doesn't care, though her help is appreciated.
12. totallynotmafia - I remember disliking the wagon on him. I think he's town purely because of the wagon. My gut puts him at the same level as Parama-manho, though.
14. Elscouta - Did some scummy stuff D1, but it was the same kind of scummy stuff he did in Lay of Leithian. Still, scummy.
15. DarkStalker - Extremely schizophrenic hydra. One of the heads doesn't think straight, or is a too-aggressive scum player. The other one is my boyfriend. I can't figure it out.
16. Snow_Bunny - Since we know she's not the SK/modifiedsurvivor, she's probably a legit town vig. Scum will probably kill her to remove that swinginess before long, so we can ignore her.
17. Nikanor - Really really hated the "I'm a VI guys!" bit D1, namely because Niki is definitely NOT a VI. He seems town apart from that.
20. Katy - My gut says that she's scum, tbh. She's too nice to me. I'm really paranoid about her for meta reasons, though, and I had the same gut in another game where I turned out to be wrong about it, so I'm probably just being paranoid. Town.
21. Tarhalindur - Modified lyncher. Possible usurper. Dies on his own tomorrow if the scum hasn't died. Not a concern.
22. InhimshallIbe (replaces Percy) - Percy was off IMO. Both slots have shown uncharacteristically minimalistic activity. Scummy.
23. Albatross (replaces Kairyuu) - Weirdness in his pursuit of me late D1, early D2. Amps up the rhetoric against me whenever someone else does so first. Scummy.
24. rajrhcpfreak - Scummy very early play, townier since then. Town.
25. CryMeARiver - Scum scum scum. Claimed invincible when that means there are like 324342 invincible players in this game. I wish SB had shot him last night. I don't really want to waste a lynch on him, though.
26. Iecerint - The Cassandra
27. FlipScythe (replaces Ortolan) - MYSTERIOUSLY FAILED TO DIE. HAS YET TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF. But I think he's being re-replaced.
28. DTMaster - Shares Tar's wincon, except that he won't mysteriously die D3. This seems pretty imbalanced with regard to DTM/Tar IMO. But. They can't both be lying, right? I guess?

A place of rest... a place of peace... (Limbo)
18. Mina, placed in Limbo Night 1 for an unknown reason. -- My main town read D1. Town.

Yet to pass from this mortal coil (Dead, but not yet buried)
13. SaintKerrigan, died Night 1 by being shot (in the head). Rolecop: Set -- Seemed really scummy to me. Set is an a priori scummy role, too. MO has claimed a sane "town" investigation on her, though.
19. SpyreX, died Night 1 by being blown up. Rolecop: Delight -- Ye Towne Playere, in spite of being uncommonly grouchy. Killed D1 by SB, the claimed vig.

[Iecerint]

Reorganized into tiers

TOWN
Iecerint
Mina
SaintKerrigan
MO
SX
raj
Katy
Niki
SB
TNM
Ooba
Manho
ABR

HARMLESS 3rd PARTY
Plum
Tar
DTM

VI?
Parama
BlazeRb
Chrono
Fate
FlipScythe
DarkStalker

SCUM
Faraday
InhimshallIbe
Alba
CMAR
dram
Elscouta

[Iecerint]

I don't understand. You want to be on the scumlist?

[Iecerint]

Yes, saying you will do something that might modulate your reads on specific players and then failing to do so is scummy. It's also something more specific than "this seems off," as it's event-based, so it's especially suited for the situation where a player says he doesn't know what's going on. The impetus for that exercise was that Blaze and Parama said they didn't know what was going on.

Also, why are you so excited about my opinion of Faraday? I guess you read from the top until you found something you didn't like, then totally stopped reading?

[Iecerint]

Are you doing that on purpose, Blaze?

[Iecerint]

OK, that's all I needed to hear.

Time for another infodump:

Unvote; Vote: BlazezRb

. He is either scum, or

extremely

VI.

(Tense is regularized to singular masculine for style reasons only where ambiguous.)

1. Starbuck shared my QT. BlazeRb currently shares it. Both players have posted in the QT, so it should be evident to Blaze that

I have more content from them to draw from, so his recent post makes no sense

. But this isn't REALLY why I'm voting him.
2. It's best to come out with it now. Otherwise, the rest doesn't follow quite as naturally.

I am a Norse god.

3. When Blaze first joined the game,

he posted in Norse QT asking who he needed to kill -- the other gods, or the men -- in order to win

. My role PM makes no mention of killing anyone, so I think this was a huge slip. Maybe he was given 2 QTs and didn't know that only one was an all-scum QT. (Or he could be a traitor.)
4. There's at least 1 other poster in the QT (plus Sky, who can read it, but hasn't commented since he was told he couldn't be anonymous). That poster posted AFTER Blaze's bizarre outburst, but failed to comment on it. I subsequently explicitly asked him to comment on it in-QT.

It's been a week

, and he has failed to comment. So has Blaze. All of them know they can daytalk, because they've posted at least once D2.
5. No one's really pushed Blaze in-thread after the slip IIRC. This would seem to imply that Sky (who can read our QT, and would know about Blaze's slip) is non-town, or doesn't think Blaze slipped, or isn't paying attention to the QT.

Miscellaneous facts:
1. Starbuck mainly posted in the QT

to apologize for her low output,

and

to request summaries of cases against players to avoid appearing ignorant in-thread

. Just before she replaced out, she said she was having a hard time contributing because she was

going through a divorce.

2. Blaze's fixation on my (neutral!) read on him when he knows I have lots of content to draw from, and one extremely salient bit,

looks like newbscum.

3. Really, I think most of my daytalking people are scummy. ABR appears to think that Sky is town, though, even if he's VI-town, and I have a secret towntell on at least one of the other sketchy players.

Norse QT: Full of Drama

[Iecerint]

(EBWOP: In spite of my being a Norse god, I have not lied about my reason for claiming intent to worship the Norse D1. Just sayin.)

[Iecerint]

Well, read the thread yourself, then. I don't know how to help you other than to make my own views clear. You give the impression of not being very interested in what's going on in the game, which I interpret as lurky disinterest, which I file under VI/scum, as I don't know you from past play, since Survivor is taken.

[Iecerint]

(Sorry if that came off as rude, but ye know...)

[Iecerint]

1. Why on earth did you claim?
2. Starbuck was blocking me N1?
3. Starbuck was blocking HERSELF N1? WAT?
4. You gave up your ability? Or she did? Voluntarily? To someone you know is town?

I am asking because I am incredulous and I need you to say "yes" to these just so I know what's going on. Except for the first one.

[Iecerint]

Parama, did Blaze do anything comparable to this in the "3 prior games" he's alluded to?

[Iecerint]

And how would he know he gave his ability to a townie? And why the hell would SB roleblock me? I know there are a handful of crazy people who want to kill me and they can't ALL be town but gosh.

My guess is that scum interpreted all my posturing about "having a reason" to claim Norse worship as indicating I was a PR.

[Iecerint]

Uh. So. By "roleblocker," you mean "doctor"? One that can always self-protect and also protect someone else? Is that what you're saying?

[Iecerint]

@ Fate, that issue has been dealt with like 8 times. I claimed my *worship target*, NOT Norse per se, because "all the cool kids were doing it." The point was that even though I was against claiming worship targets, I was going to go along with it because that's what the majority (the "cool kids") were already starting to do. If you really have a "case file" on me, you would think you would actually read my posts, but you indicated some 10-20 pages ago that you were not doing so.

Moreover, all Blaze had done in QT is ask who he needed to kill to win because he didn't understand his PM (i.e. only one of us had claimed details of their ability in any fashion). If you don't think that's troubling, well, I could actually believe that because you are either scum or O_O.

I chose Norse NOT purely because of my faction. That's what I said D1 IIRC, and it's true.

@ MO, I'm OK to claim my worship ability if that's what people want. But my ability won't be quite as useful if it's out there.

Unvote; Vote: Chrono

. As much as I kinda want to kill Fate, I don't think it's happening, and Chrono's early D2 stuff is no good.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I suppose there's no harming in claiming that one of my abilities is called

Too Human

. My worship vote counts as if I were mortal even though I'm not. That's how I could answer whoever's question a long time ago.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: To clarify, that's that one *player* in the QT had claimed his ability in any fashion -- not that one of Blaze and me had.

[Iecerint]

@ Niki, the thing with manho is that ooba claimed a secret towntell on him, and I trust ooba. I'd like for ooba to weigh-in. Other than that, manho would be on the list of players I wouldn't whine about lynching.

People want to lynch Chrono because he said we should worship him and quicklynch repeatedly while letting him fix our "mistakes." If you think it's confusing that people would want to lynch Chrono, you are not reading Chrono.

@ Fate, I didn't out anyone. Blaze claimed when he didn't need to. I'm not going to apologize for bringing his bizarre QT behavior to light, because it WAS bizarre, and I went so far as to wait A WEEK to get feedback from QT mates who NEVER POSTED. Then the straw that broke the camels back was when he (this still makes no sense whatsoever) claimed that I "couldn't have a read on him" because he'd only posted a few times, when I said I had a NEUTRAL read on his slot and had flat-out asked him if he'd just claimed scum in QT when he pulled that bizarre move.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHWIQH$1@%#@!$#@!$%#@!%$#!#@R.

[Iecerint]

@ Tar, given Blaze's claimed actions and his otherwise-implied level of self-awareness, I think it's relatively unlikely that he's geniuScum as such.

No offense, Blaze. You can dance on my corpse if I'm wrong later on.

[Iecerint]

1. @ Faraday, you said you'd read GM something like a month ago, and that you wanted to do it to get Mina/ooba/Iec meta. You didn't do it. Maybe you had some set-backs in there somewhere (sorry for your loss), but it nonetheless looks like you weren't as interested in getting that meta as you had intimated. Indignation when someone points out a scummy thing as scummy does not follow.

2. Flipscythe is Ortolan. I'd forgotten about Katy's innocent result on him, so I put him there because it's two people who won't play the game on a slot consecutively. And O's crap play was enough to get him lynchwasted.

3. @ Blaze, a Godfather is a role that checks innocent even though they're not. That's why people are speculating you might be the Godfather.

4. Also, you should probably get confirmation from the Mod about how your ability works, since your explanations aren't clear at all, if only because it would annoy me if they did something off later on and you used the "I didn't know it worked that way" card.

5. Why do you think I'm scummy? Just because some players think I'm scummy?

6. @ Fate, it's ooba's secret towntell, not mine. You can be pretty confident that I'm otherwise not feeling good things about manho because after ooba posted his town/scum list, the first thing I said was "Nice list. Why is manho town?"

[Iecerint]

Fate, did you just claim that you're the only two players in the QT? Cuz. That's not what I had assumed.

[Iecerint]

1. Faraday, it's scummy because town wants to use tools to find scum, you were given a tool, and you didn't use it. Yes, scum could lie about reading it (and take the risk of being found out by questions that result). That doesn't change that failing to use known tools to find scum is scummy.

2. Blaze, so, I'm scummy because I'm too town? Is that all? Have you even read the thread?

3. Norse leader is Odin, prominent underlings include Freya (of female fertility and sexlove), Frey (of male fertility and agriculture), Baldur (of nicelove and plotdevice), Loki (of being sneaky and scummy), Thor (of having a hammer), Valkyries, etc. Use wikipedia.

4. People are GF-speculating because you check innocent and are scummy.

[Iecerint]

So, @ Fate, why can't you just have a Neighbors QT (i.e. one that's the same as my QT)? Am I to assume you claimed 6-way masons with Niki?

[Iecerint]

My point is that you claimed that Niki was scum if you were. I do not understand how that follows at all.

[Iecerint]

OK, so you made a totally 100% vacuous statement? Gotcha.

[Iecerint]

Me too. I think the cute bear thing sways me.

[Iecerint]

Oh, that reminds me.

Lol no. His recent list of VIs is too hilarious to lynch.

What's up with this, Niki?

[Iecerint]

I was Egyptians, if I didn't already say. Think I did, though. And mine counted as if I were mortal (presumably x2).

[Iecerint]

If you don't want to play the game, ask to be replaced.

[Iecerint]

Also, @ MO, it's my understanding at this point that it's a total coincidence that you targeted both SK and Blaze. Is that correct?

[Iecerint]

Ooba, I just noticed something about your scumlists. Even though you clearly have a read on Kai's replacement, Albatross, -- you have voted him before -- you have him on your lists as "Kairyuu" and unread. What's up with that?

[Iecerint]

Yeah, it was just really spooky that whenever I called someone scum, you swooped in with your Wand of Investigation. But I see how they're decent choices.

[Iecerint]

<Prod> <Attack!> <lurk>er <Can I have it?>

[Iecerint]

Tons of stuff has happened. I can sympathize with you, but you should probably at least skim and read the major "case" posts.

One huge thing we'd love for you to clear up -- your slot was lynched D1. The lynch didn't happen. Then your slot's originator was replaced, but the replacement never posted and again was replaced (by you).

So, to start -- why are you still alive? Is it something you did, or something someone else did?

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: SpyreX was responsible for the funky voting, and he's dead. So voting Fate is voting Fate.

[Iecerint]

1. SB, I wanted to get my daytalk QT mates to weigh-in on it, because, frankly, I'm kinda suspicious of them, too. Also, the fact that I found OTHER QT mates suspicious made me give Blaze the benefit of the doubt even on that. Alsoalso, I wanted to give Blaze a chance to reveal his buddies by posting analysis in-thread.

2. Blaze, you said a moment ago that you were no longer covering me and are instead covering Fate. Now you say that I am still being covered through D2, but you may be able to change it N2. Which is it?

3. You've said that your Cover protects a target and that it "roleblocks" them? Which is it? Or do you mean that it prevents ALL abilities from hitting them? Or does it prevent them from performing all abilities? Better -- can you give an example of things it can "roleblock"?

4. Do you know what it means for moves to be "redirected"? Better -- could you give an example of an ability this would stop?

5. Ooba, can you characterize the secret towntell? It looks like you're dropping it after supporting for lynching manho picked up.

[Iecerint]

...

2. So your reaction to an apparent inconsistency is to create ANOTHER one? Are you doing this on purpose? (Clarification: I'm not asking who you intend to cover in the FUTURE. I'm asking about your claim that you CHANGED cover targets, and then your claim that you hadn't/couldn't.)

3. OK. So. The "cover" action is something that you use on someone you think is scum, since it stops them from being protected and stuff. Do I have that right? (Your use of second person makes it really unclear with regard to who is being covered in the example.)

4. WAT. Umm. Your "redirector" is your hammer, and not your cover, you said. And what does GFexposure have to do with redirection?

If he makes sense to someone out there, please help.

[Iecerint]

^ Except that he's claimed two specific actions with unique effects --> "holding the hammer" and "covering." Holding the hammer appears to both "stop redirections" and "reveal the godfather." "Covering" both made him think SB thought I was town AND his example of its function is that it lets the target get killed if they're targeted, which does not follow.

[Iecerint]

Also, @ Blaze, are you saying you're responsible for that 4th vote two slots under you?

[Iecerint]

I'm asking you questions because it seems like you contradicted yourself, but I also kinda agree with Katy. I'm trying to evaluate the contradictions by asking questions.

Could you define what "redirected" means as you're using it? Normally, it means someone targets a player and makes their ability, if they used one, target someone else. So, if I wanted to track ABR, I could be redirected to Fate and learn where Fate went, even though I'd think it was ABR's result.

However, we've already heard from MO that even though his N1 actions WERE redirected (by SX), the information he was given by the Mod specified that his POST-redirection target, not his initial one. So the typical benefit of Redirection doesn't seem to be in evidence this game.

Could you clarify when your hammer was passed away? Was it N1, or D2?

[Iecerint]

OK, so, given that that's what redirected means, why did you keep speculating that your abilities would reveal the godfather (GF)?

Busdriving (in most games) switches 2 TARGETS. What would have targeted one player targets the other, and vice-versa. Redirecting changes ONE PLAYER'S TARGET without flip-flopping the would-be target and the actual target. That's the difference. I'm sure some mods have variations.

Also, D2 daybreak has already occurred. Did you mean D3 daybreak? Is it accurate that you can re-assign the hammer at the start of each day?

[Iecerint]

I don't really agree with your interpretation, but I can sort of see how you could have arrived at that. Please confirm whether that kind of a scenario would play out the way you think it will.

OK. Next point.

SB *chose* Parama as the person who would be redirect-proof as of D2 start, right?

[Iecerint]

^ Sorry, I meant Starbuck. Both my SBs are in this game.

[Iecerint]

WAIT A MINUTE HERE.

So I was coming up with this version of the universe where townStarbuck targeted me pregame because I was her virtuous QTfriend who tried to find Sky. Then she gave it to Parama N1 because she thought he was scum and wanted to mess with his subsequent targets, banking on SX's redirection still hanging around.

But. My vote was STILL redirected by SX D1, even though I "had the hammer" D1. So...what gives?

[Iecerint]

Oh, wait, nevermind. I was cover'd; not hammer'd.

[Iecerint]

Starbuck made no allusion of having targeted me (or anyone else) with anything. The first I heard about being targeted was when Blaze mentioned it in-thread.

ALSO

Blaze actually claimed that BOTH his abilities stop redirection. But I was clearly vote-redirected by SX D1 in spite of being covered. So...if Blaze is town, SX's vote ability doesn't count as redirection?

See, the weird focus on "redirection" in Blaze's abilities would make sense if it were tied to SX's ability. But it doesn't appear to have been the case, or else Cover doesn't do what Blaze says it does.

[Iecerint]

It's not that your play is bad; it's just that it's kinda schizophrenic, probably because of the hydra element. Namely, the Mina thing was awful. I could've put you in any of those categories and still not quite felt satisfied with it.

ABR is not in my QT. You can be pretty sure that what I said is true because Blaze hasn't disputed it. Other QT mates (unclaimed) could also affirm that it's true (even though Blaze hasn't disputed it, so it's not necessary). If Blaze is scum, he's GFscum (unless MO is lying, but that's unlikely since SK will flip 100% at twilight, so he'd have to have claimed the result as geniuScum, then lied about Blaze to save him). On the other hand, we know 100% that there's a GF somewhere in this game. Regarding how Blaze has framed Starbuck's actions -- I could see her making them, but I'm thrown off by my vote being redirected D1. Am waiting for Blaze to get back with me on that.

I've never played with manho before, but I get the same vibe as you. I had him on my town list just because ooba claimed a secret towntell on him that he has since revoked (which makes me sort of question said secret towntell and give ooba -like points).

[Iecerint]

Ah, I see. ABR *may* have access to the QT, but he has never posted there (unless he IS Sky, but Sky's posting patterns don't match when ABR was posting elsewhere on the site). People in the Norse QT aren't given the full set of players who have access. Though it seems an obvious explanation, I hadn't considered that possibility. He may also know who Sky is by some other means.

One point -- I waited a full week after Blaze's slip to make any comments about it in-thread, so

any mystery players who have access to our QT knew about Blaze's slip for the week prior to my revelation.

[Iecerint]

Well, that sucked.

[Iecerint]

JC Angels makes more sense given the factions who've lost people. That's who I'm worshiping unless someone can give me a reason otherwise.

[Iecerint]

The only thing with ABR is that his ability appears pro-town. I guess it also keeps track of the cult, or he could just be lying about it, but ye know. I doubt it.

[Iecerint]

OK, so -- I could see Kinetic being sneaky and giving scum some townish abilities, because he seems like part of the site contingent that has a little seizure whenever someone "confirms" themselves by proving townish abilities, I'll give you that. But. The "just playing mafia" part of me still wants to give him +like points on that basis.

Have had a thought. Neat. Will wait for D3.

[Iecerint]

^ I meant, he could be lying about details of it (i.e. so that a townish ability could be useful to scum).

Yeah, I know. Comparatively remote.

[Iecerint]

Blaze quoted all the Sky correspondence from the Norse QT because he wanted to push Sky=ABR. And. That is not allowed.

No idea why he thought it'd be. O.o

[Iecerint]

Xite's points are not new ones. The timing of your being convinced is unsettling.

Also, for what it's worth, these are the players whose posting patterns on the site match "being Sky":

dramonic
chronopie
Fate
Parama
Plum
SaintKerrigan

Sky posted late on May 22nd, so that's where it comes from. It's possible he was sneaky and is actually someone else, but these are the ones who came up on msutils way back when. Feel free to check other suspects I may have missed.

If my remaining QT friend(s) do not post in the QT or in-thread soon, I am going to out them, because they are suspicious, even though they are mod-confirmed to not be Sky.

[Iecerint]

I hafta say, I don't wanna make you happy very badly. But I'm still worshiping em.

Edit: ... @ Fate. -_-

[Iecerint]

Yeah, assuming that Sky wasn't sneaky. Since he went to the trouble of posting anonymously, it's not out of the question.

Also, ABR said he thinks Sky is VI town (well, said he wasn't scum and that Sky was the reason he didn't want Norse to get worship) and whined when he said I was going to post it in-thread. So....

[Iecerint]

I'd be fine with either of them. I lean Fate just slightly.

[Iecerint]

Since we know no scum are dead, and town from the other 3 factions all are, the correct answer is JC angels.

But VV can dispute this w/e.

[Iecerint]

(People would stop thinking you were VI/scum if you'd refrain from lampshading the following so ostentatiously.)

[Iecerint]

Blaze is dead. He was modkilled. He is now confirmed town.

Yes, his claim was utterly bizarre and poorly communicated.

[Iecerint]

...

... XD

<_<

[Iecerint]

LOL.

Gosh, I normally love being recruited by cults, but not if I'm trapped in Limbo. That sounds boring.

[Iecerint]

BTW -- who was it who randomly speculated about cult-limbo before? DS, I think?

[Iecerint]

Why the hell did you off Mina for a phase?

Maybe Fate? ^^

[Iecerint]

But really, if it's just for a phase, the main point of the ability is to make scum your Kevlar. So...

[Iecerint]

WHAT. MINA WAS LIKE AN ANTI-LURKER.

Or are you saying you want to make lurkers your kevlar?

[Iecerint]

Also, if you want to make lurkers your kevlar, why the hell were you considering Limboing me?

[Iecerint]

Set-up speculation -- since dram WASN'T added late in the game, but Limbo WAS added later in the process...

O_O_O

[Iecerint]

THREATENING TO KILL PEOPLE.

HILARIOUS.

[Iecerint]

^ That's me. I just did it last page, I think.

Even if the numbers of scum aren't symmetric, I think the benefit to town or scum probably is.

[Iecerint]

I suppose I'll join in.

Faraday
5. dramonic
7. Fate
12. totallynotmafia
22. InhimshallIbe (replaces Percy)
23. Albatross (replaces Kairyuu)
24. rajrhcpfreak
25. CryMeARiver

[Iecerint]

Mina may be able to give us information about dram, though, come to think of it. So consider him off of my list for now.

[Iecerint]

For example, Mina may have gotten happy flavor when she was sent to Limbo. Or she may've gotten OMG U R IN PRIZN flavor.

Yep, I added em. raj fell off the face of the earth. TNM I'm a little ambivalent about for the reason in that quote, but it wouldn't break my heart if he died.

I already said I was voting for them, and I've been pushing others to vote for them. I'm obviously voting for them. I sent in said vote already, if that's what you're asking.

[Iecerint]

Another possibility -- if she was told that dram put her there, dram is probably less likely to be scum.

[Iecerint]

Yep. It's a passive ability that gives me as-if-mortal worship power. Starbuck/Blaze didn't talk about their abilities in QT, so I can't confirm that's it's 100% the same, but I think that's a reasonable assumption.

Nah, I think DS brought it up first. He voted Mina early game under the premise that Limbo was the holding pen for modified cult recruitees. Then everyone yelled at him, including his other head.

[Iecerint]

My mistake, then. Anyway, Plum's almost certainly MS, so.

[Iecerint]

@ MO, I've asked an open question in the QT. I'll let you know if anyone answers. They sorta suck, though.

My PM does not imply that it's true off all Norse folk.

@ CMAR, she's the shooter. She's not voting. She's just giving us an idea of who she's considering.

[Iecerint]

Xite's hypothesis actually makes a lot of sense. Did SX ever clarify whether it affected passives?

Also, if Xite is correct, Tar is probably lying about burning a kill on himself. Not that I know why he would do so, but.

[Iecerint]

I'm not worshipping anyone this time as it seems pointless for me to do so, and since I technically did send in a worship yesterday, maybe my not sending in a worship at all today will be helpful to see if there's a difference.

I doubt it. Lots of people probably forget to send it in.

[Iecerint]

[Iecerint]

Niki, when you said not to kill me, who were you talking to? I'm not on Snowie's shortlist.

[Iecerint]

Mina, teach us about dram, please.

Since abilities are blocked and Percy/IMSIB will consequently stay dead, it is probably appropriate to note that Percy/IHSIB shared my QT and claimed Norse god therein. You can see why I gave Blaze a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Sky's lurking in here, too. Is the funny bit with his name (Odin) an allusion to a comic I've never heard of ala Endless? I'm going to assume he was scum.

Also, as is evident from the bit that Blaze was modkilled for, Sky specifically requested who Odin was pregame. So, he may've known that Odin was no good. Or maybe he wanted to make friends with Odin. I dunno.

Percy claimed that his Worship ability Neighborized people into our QT D1. I dunno if he was trying to prompt a mass Worship claim from us or what. But I doubt he was lying.

The manho kill is a little weird. Did he breadcrumb something?

[Iecerint]

@ MO, did you see what IHSIB flipped as? Spoilers: I'm not a funky AI-flavored god.

@ Katy, Percy didn't do much of anything in-thread except vote raj D1 for a reason that made sense to me at the time IIRC. Go for it, though.

I'll do a PBPA of his Norse QT posts, of which there aren't many.

I didn't get a lottery PM. I feel left out.

@ Niki

Niki, when you said not to kill me, who were you talking to? I'm not on Snowie's shortlist.

[Iecerint]

Uh. Like. To the scum?

@ Mr. X

-- I got no confirmation from the Mod on the subject one way or the other, if you're wondering. No way to know what that means, unfortunately. That much is certain.

[Iecerint]

Also:

1. Set is a character in Stargate? Is s/he a nice one?
2. Tar says Stargate probably isn't in the game, even though SetSK just flipped Stargate?

[Iecerint]

Uh. Does Delirium have the "Sandman" item?

[Iecerint]

I didn't get a PM, so...if there's an obvious solution, teach me. Are you Lotterying for their corpses or something?

[Iecerint]

Ah, I see. I guess everyone saying things that aren't Sandman or Stargate are just making it up...?

[Iecerint]

Hmm.

Lottery: Sandman

[Iecerint]

Oh. Huh. I see.

My role PM makes no reference to that universe apart from the name of the mortal voting weight ability. There's no implication that my character is cybernetically enhanced, or anything other than the vanilla Norse god. I am one of the gods listed on that page, though.

So, you think SB both happened to target IHSIB and she was redirected there, or you just think she's so town for other reasons that it outweighs the statistical likelihood that she targeted someone else and went for a +like grab. or...?

Preview edit: You already answered it.

[Iecerint]

There's the added problem that scum have apparently failed to kill twice consecutively. Tar claimed a burnt kill the first time, but hmm.

[Iecerint]

I read it as dram panicking. I suspected dram D2 and liked ooba's D2 town/suspect list (except for manho). I would not have jumped in if you had been the one to ask about the inconsistency, in part because you probably would have made a longer post that made clear why you thought it was an inconsistency. At worst, I probably would've asked you why you thought X was a discrepancy given Y and Z from D1 (i.e. where Y and Z are events that implied ooba's changing perspective). dram's post looked like it was skimming over lots of details to find something wrong with ooba's post.

dram's post wasn't as bad as I'd assumed when I went back to reread ooba, though.

[Iecerint]

Waiting on a PM from Kinetic OKing handling of the post times before the Norse QT Percy posts.

[Iecerint]

Not really. Percy posted 5 times and inHim posted once.

[Iecerint]

Ooh, I missed 2 posts he did as his modding name. I've got the OK from the Mod. I'll list the month/date of each post. I can get a little more specific upon request.

5/22

Percy greets us and wonders who else has access to the thread. He's first after Kinetic.

5/23

Percy greets me specifically, wonders at who Sky was, and mentions that his only experience as a Neighbor was as scum once, so he wasn't sure how to handle the QT and wanted advice. (This was kinda weird.)

5-29

Percy apologizes because he didn't know we could daytalk. (This is after I came out as having a daytalk QT in thread.) He may have put off posting intentionally before that so I would out myself for having the thread, since before that I'd specifically asked him to come and confirm that he wasn't Sky (SB had already cooperated).

He also claims Norse God and claims that when he has Worship he can make players "Runed," which lets them into our QT.

(A little explanation -- "being a Norse God" and "having access to our QT" are NOT quite the same thing. There's a separate passive ability called "Runed" that allows access to the QT. Also, players don't know 100% who has access to the QT and who doesn't, so there can be any number of lurkers at any given moment.)

If anyone else had players randomly and unnecessarily claim worship targets around this time, it might be a scumtell. Scum may have encouraged scumNeighbors to fish for abilities like this.

Also claims intent to return to the QT the next day.

6-3 (N1)

Percy apologizes for output, says that work makes it hard for him to contribute. He also claims that he has a separate ability (from the Neighborizing bit) that he can use without worship and that he was trying to decide who to use it on. He never gives information about the ability itself.

Tells SB that he's regretful for her personal problems.

6-5 (N1)

Says he's almost caught up, and FINALLY explicitly says he's not Sky. Claims that he thought his wondering at who Sky was early game (as listed above; it was after Kinetic had saying Sky couldn't post anonymously, so I thought it wasn't totally bogus, even if the kind of move I'd never expect from Percy) amounted to claiming not Sky to justify how long it took him.

Since Kinetic confirmed that none of the public posters in-QT was Sky, and that he would identify Sky in-QT if he ever posted, Percy's reluctance to claim not-Sky explicitly may imply that Percy is scum with Sky, because Percy would have no reason to put off claiming "not Sky" otherwise (he'd probably want to fake scumhunt and help me find him).

Claims a townread on me. Argues I got scrutiny D1 mainly because of high output. Speculates that there was scum on my wagon. Asks me who I think it was.

In a separate post a few minutes afterwards, adds that he thinks trusting ABR is a poor course of action, and that he will worship GOO N1.

In yet another post later on the same day (after a wallpost from me where I list my Sky suspects and say I suspect damn near every player in the game except POSSIBLY Mina, among other things), Percy lists his top post-read suspects as MO, TNM, and raj. He's not sure about ABR. He's also not sure about ABR, but he's happy I made a suspect list based on posting times. Based on the list, speculates that Fate might be Sky might be Loki, but he's not sure.

6-10 (D2)

IHSIB says he's gonna read the thread. Fails to follow-up when I ask him about Blaze's post later on.

[Iecerint]

I also believe Percy was scum. We have to wait until tomorrow to confirm.

Nikanor, not everyone was blocked last night...the two corpses are evidence of that. Thanks for following the game though.

1. You are a scientist.
2. If kills resolve the same night, that wouldn't be consistent with MO's claim. Correct me if you have reason to believe the kills themselves occur at daybreak (i.e. rather than the bodies being found at daybreak). But I think MO looks bad if there are corpses tomorrow. Only explanation would be a delayed kill.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I see what you mean. Katy said she "got her PM," so I think you're correct about that. I was confused about when your ability functions.

[Iecerint]

Is your information just role-based? Is that the situation with O/Xite, too? I guess he has an obvtown role? Use discretion, etc.

[Iecerint]

I'd forgotten about the way she phrased it. I withdraw my question.

[Iecerint]

If I ever claim, my ability's functionality will significantly decrease. On the other hand, it's probably not likely to be of much use either way. So, don't let that per se stop you. Not that I think it would've.

If you think you can find scum without a massclaim, that might be the best option. You're a better judge of circumstances than I am, all things considered.

[Iecerint]

QTs are disabled today. I think some players have already mentioned it, and I can confirm it.

[Iecerint]

Oh. Right.

-_-

Silly me. <_<

GOSH IT HAS BEEN A BAD DAY ALL AROUND.

[Iecerint]

V/LA until late Sunday. I may manage a post tomorrow morning. Posting in all my games.

[Iecerint]

Turns out I won't be out of town, after all. V/LA canceled. Sorry for spam.

[Iecerint]

I just noticed a typo in that bit. It should read this way:

[quote="Iecerint"Percy lists his top post-read suspects as MO, TNM, and raj. He's not sure about ABR. He's also not sure about *

Sky

*, but he's happy I made a suspect list based on posting times.[/quote]

[Iecerint]

@ MO, you're possibly forgetting about the cult.

I'm on the fence between voting CMAR and Alba, I think.

[Iecerint]

I mean, it's possible that the modified cult can only recruit certain types of characters (e.g. humans only), which massclaim could break. Or something. I don't really know how you'd balance cults in a game that could go on for this long. Maybe a softcap on number of recruitees?

[Iecerint]

Waitwaitwait. You think there are two redirectors? Like, this universe:

Snowie kills Percy
Mysterious Man 1 redirects Snowie -> Percy
Mysterious Man 2 redirects VV -> Snowie
VV -> ??

That penultimate sentence is throwing me out.

[Iecerint]

^ Lynchers typically become town if their target dies by other means. We know his rolename is lyncher via ABR (unless he lied about little details).

The presence of lots of redirectors kinda makes sense with Blaze's claim. He was fixated on his ability stopping "redirecting" per se. His PM may've said something specific about it. Having abilities tailored specifically to a mechanic like that, ye know.

[Iecerint]

I'm a bit concerned that SB might be scum claiming Vig. (And scum might have redirected my protect me to SB etc.) Was inHim SB's real target or was she redirected to inHim?

She has claimed that he was her real target. MO has claimed she was redirected to him. Both may be true.

Why would scum have redirected your protect as such? It's not as if you had claimed D1.

[Iecerint]

SX WAS a GOO. I seriously doubt he didn't worship them.

[Iecerint]

I can confirm that I first got a QT with ooba last night, and then with Niki when Kinetic decided that he had placed me with ooba in error.

Niki claimed that his character was a bisexual male in QT last night. I'm assuming that's true of Desire, but I don't know the flavor.

Both ooba and Niki denied responsibility for making the QT. Even though Niki did it. So that's something, though it's just as likely to indicate that Niki doesn't trust me as that Niki is scum.

I want to claim after CMAR.

[Iecerint]

Fine. There's a specific reason, but it's unlikely to make much difference.

Rolename: Baldur, the Invulnerable
God\Mortal: God
Any Worship Modifiers: Too Human -> Worship is as if I were a mortal
Worship vote N1: Egyptians
Worship vote N2: Angels
Faction (if any): Norse ("Runed," 3 Norse have died, of whom 1 was scum; at least one player -- "Sky" -- other than me has access to the QT), flavor-only lovers with Niki, briefly mistakenly lovers with ooba
Ability: I am unkillable once under certain conditions (I see no need to specify). This is part of why I was skeptical of Tar's claim N1. Also, after Tar claimed he had used up his NKproofness N1, I asked Kinetic whether I would be told if my ability were used up, and he was evasive (i.e. he said he'd tell me if my abilities changed, but wouldn't say whether using the one time passive ability constituted change).
N1 target: N/A
N2 target: N/A
Ability (if your faction gets worship votes): While Norse has worship, I am unkillable under all conditions an unlimited number of times.

My worship ability makes me skeptical of CMAR's claim, since his passive vanilla ability is pretty much the same as my worship one (unless he has lots of specific condition one-shots -- in that case, he's just an OP version of my own ability, even though it's the basis of my flavor, etc).

[Iecerint]

I'll go ahead and elaborate on the QT point. As far as I know, Sky is the

ONLY

other player with access to the Norse QT.

Ooba pointed out last night that the Egyptians appeared to have a larger starting group than the Norse (Norse had 4 + Sky; Egyptians appear to have 6). Could mean we have more NorseQT lurkers, or...I dunno?

[Iecerint]

@ Fate, MO convinced me. The presumed lack of scumtalk today makes it a relatively good time.

[Iecerint]

MERRY SCUMDAY, POM.

You can read the rules on page 1 to get the gist of the worship votes.

Claim in your next post.

@ Fate
1. What do you mean by "Egypt (Niki)"? First, Egypt isn't GOO. Second, you worship factions, not people.
2. It's VV, not Katy.
3. Why on earth would you both fail to claim miller AND fish for an investigation as one?

[Iecerint]

You vote for whichever team has nice people. Since everyone will be out soon (liars aside), we'll probably discuss it in-thread, at least in generalities.

The quicker you claim, the more I will love you.

[Iecerint]

Gosh, Pom, you could have won her so many extra +like points.

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If you don't trust me, why did you (try to) give me masonry with ooba? It's pretty clear that you genuinely intended to because of the mod error, so.

The redirect theory sort of doesn't make sense. If someone redirected you to yourself, it should've resulted in a QT with yourself, unless Kinetic just flipped a coin and I was the lucky bride.

[Iecerint]

^ I forgot something. My vanilla one shot deathproof ability is called

Hard to Kill

where my worship-tier one is called

Beloved By All

.

So...I don't know for sure, but I doubt P's theory holds up for the Norse.

[Iecerint]

Why didn't you just post as ABR in-QT up-front?

Give us more information about what you know about scum in our QT. Also, why didn't you come out with said information in-thread?

[Iecerint]

What specifically made you think that Odin was GF? Like, your PM said "btw ther iz scumz in yr group" or what?

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: scumz boss*

[Iecerint]

That's awfully laser-guided for a guess. O_O

(Also, you've already redacted it, but the NK-proof bit would be sorta unfair to Tar IMO, unless I had just been lying about it altogether.)

[Iecerint]

He wasn't revealed AS a rolecop. He was rolecop'd. That happens when you die in this game.

A role cop investigation was concluded on Inhimshallibe after the night phase. The results show that he was Organically Distributed Intelligence Network.

So you saw this and thought "Oh yeah, clearly town!" Iec by PoE!

Also, are you Too Human?

[Iecerint]

Huh? Pom is a puppy?

[Iecerint]

Oh, nevermind. I misread the it where ABR specified that he intended to summon you. So I thought you were like YE CANNOT SUMMON ME, FOR I AM FENRIR.

[Iecerint]

1. X-Laws aren't villains, at least not from how I read the wiki. They're opposed to the main villain. They just get a little Knight Templarish from time to time.
2. Why did you think that a lurker (Percy) would be more likely to be killed?
3. Why does your targeting Parama make him more town? O.o

[Iecerint]

Ah, OK. I forgot about the kill being blocked again. ^^;

I need to start taking notes. <_<

[Iecerint]

NOTE TO ALL PLAYERS:
All flavor text has been removed from all role PMs at this time due to something I found late in the process. Because of this flavor text will only be present within the game.

Do you suppose it's connected to this?

[Iecerint]

So is it like this:

1. Learn ability of player X. That player is removed from the game and consequently can't be revived, etc.
2. Revive a player of your choosing. He is given ability X.

[Iecerint]

3 dying is just me miscounting. And as stated above, 6 Egyptians is something ooba said in the QT overnight that I didn't really check up on.

I was going to say that I totally couldn't understand CMAR being able to talk to dead folk and not telling us about the QT facts (it's not like he'd be outing anyone), and CMAR making such a clearly-mistaken misclaim, and so on, but AD sorta beat me do it innit.

AD, your recent post implies you just need *one* worship vote to be death-proof. We in general need a worship majority to have our abilities activated. Which is it?

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: I probably miscounted 3 because I'd just finished telling ooba that there were 4 known players in my QT, and the deaths had made my QT empty, meaning 4 deaths; but I'd forgotten about Sky/ABR.

[Iecerint]

I don't think he can talk to SX right now. For one, he's now buried. For two, QTs are closed.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP-1: Meaning 3 deaths. <_<

I am a bad counter.

[Iecerint]

Why would we think you were lying about something like that? Because you're 2SCUM4SCUM and there's no point in paying any attention to you whatsoever?

[Iecerint]

I see. My PM just lists worship abilities without spelling it all out, so I could see that.

What Chrono mod exchange is he referring to?

[Iecerint]

@ Parama, do you have additional secret reasons for Fate's behavior beyond what he presented in his claim?

[Iecerint]

I think the request for a Plum lynch is his way of lampshading that he is being disruptive and/or scummy intentionally.

[Iecerint]

"Benevolent spirit" seems to match up with "Ghost" pretty closely. I think she probably hit O.

[Iecerint]

Mina was still lynchable, though, IIRC. So she wasn't TOTALLY untargetable.

Unless the lynch would've just ended in a NL. I suppose dram can probably clear this up.

[Iecerint]

Ah, you're right.

Could still be Xite that wasn't counted if Census happens after kills and before Limbos. That would be a little weird, though. O_O

[Iecerint]

Vote: raj

I JUST WANNA BE A SHEEP (BAA!)
I JUST WANNA BE A SHEEP (BAA!)
I PRAY THE LORD MY SOUL, 2 KEEP
I JUST WANNA BE A SHEEP (BAA!)

[Iecerint]

^ So, here are our universes:

1. ABR is lying.
2. X was on ABR's list, and he's scum/cult who knows his alignment.
3. Same as above, but he doesn't know his alignment and may be town. Unlikely because I think X said he had a special wincon just for him IIRC.
4. ABR's census ability takes place AFTER the kills (so SX and SK weren't on it), but before Mina was Limbo'd (so she was targetable), and the player not accounted for by the census is X, after all.

Is correct?

[Iecerint]

The rules indicate that Limbo'd players can be targeted with abilities. It's possible that the census is an exception to this, but pretty unlikely.

ABR's ability won't work tonight. It should've worked today, but he has claimed that he was roleblocked.

WHICH, would appear to indicate that someone has lied and is actually a roleblocker, if ABR is town, since I don't think anyone claimed roleblocker per se (closest is dram, but his JK is via Limbo, so).

[Iecerint]

EBWOP can't

[Iecerint]

@ Tar, we probably get Too Human because one of us (ABR) has a vested interest in preventing us from getting worship.

Don't forget about Set flipping town.

[Iecerint]

(I think ABR's unlikely to have been scum with Percy, though he could be CL.)

Also, I didn't claim one-shot bulletproof, but one-shot unkillable. I should clarify that I am one-shot conditional deathproof, upgraded to 100% deathproof with Norseworship. (Not that this necessarily affects your judgments about what it signifies.)

(Also, keep in mind that at least one person with bulletproof abilities (YOU) is already known anti-town, even if the narrative hasn't gone that way.)

@ Pome, I'd read today, pick some favorite suspects, and iso them.