Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Percy]

Hello everyone! Good to see some familiar avatars.

Setup speculation time...how many scum do you think there are?

I think we either have a large scum group and some small third parties (in which case I'd put the figure of scum at 8 and the third parties at 2), or two middling scum groups (in which case I'd say 5 each).

(Right now, I'd guess that it wouldn't be such a great idea to worship the Old Ones.)

But the Old Ones are the keeewwwwwlest!
(Actually, the Norse Gods are pretty great too.)

If you had to worship one group, now, which one would it be? (don't explain why, just give one)

The Norse Gods.

there is a couple of people i already see rising on my scumdar but someone not helping at all and selfvoting is someone that needs to be removed asap.

I find it very hard to believe that you have read the thread enough to have a working scumdar, but not enough to have recognised the voting shenanigans. Weaksauce.

Vote: Percy

(raj)

Also, I'm fail to see the relevance (if any) of info gained from stating who we'd worship right this moment. Could someone in favor of that plan explain it to me?

In theory, we could tabulate who falls under the "benefits if X is worshipped", and select the group that has the most townie-looking people in it to worship. Otherwise, we either (1) Ignore the worship mechanic (bad idea), (2) Worship at random / in secret (also bad idea) or (3) Worship a group of gods to give a specific player the worship benefit, risking a boost to scum as well.
Locking scum into claims now is also a good idea wrt the worship mechanic.

ABR is town, btw.

I considered Mina to be rolefishing. I think rolefishing is almost always scummy, and I have no reason to believe that this is an exception.

Funny you should mention that; I'm of the opposite opinion. I've

never

seen scum rolefish. I've accused

others

of rolefishing, but I've now realised (embarrassingly enough) that I only do this when I'm scum. If you have some evidence to back up your position, I'd be very happy to read it.

Do you guys trust me?

Will you appoint me your chief, citizens?

Not really, not without more information. I'm guessing it's a "you appoint me and then I claim" kinda deal, though. I think in games where the town know very little, combined with unusual mechanics, spells disaster if scum is appointed a leader. My first game as scum was with you in

Prisoner's Dilemma II

, and we exploited the mechanics of the game so very hard and looked like we were town the whole way.

But it seems like you're going to help us out without going all Mufasa on us, so why do you need to be chief again?

ALL actions (yea, this may help the scum not screw up but the net result depending could be worse).

Super town points for SpyreX for stating this. If he was scum, it makes much more sense to claim that he doesn't know whether it applies to actions as well as votes, and tell his scumfaction the real deal in private. Every town PR can now target who they want to target and have no excuse to claim confusion tomorrow.

Hold on, when someone says "Great Old Ones" I think Cthulhu, Hastur, Ythogtha et al. from the Lovecraft mythos, but the "Endless" are from Gaiman's

Sandman

.

@SpyreX

: If we want some time with Delight, do we worship "Great Old Ones" or "The Endless"?

OK, I'm up to post 135 and need to get some work done today. I'll be back later to deal with the rest of the thread.

[Percy]

Grading papers, taking much longer than expected.

Will catch up completely and post within 24 hours.

[Percy]

OK guys, still working on my catchup post, but my evening of "catch up on this game" has turned into "babysit my nephew" at very short notice

Post incoming tomorrow.

[Percy]

-DTM's claim is very premature. I don't know why he wanted to make it so clear that he is Hit Girl. The fact that he didn't get a rules infraction for his post where he doesn't swear makes me nervous. He did say:

I swore in all my posts except 1, which I got a formal warning.

...but I can't see it.
-Extremely defensive reaction from raj when called on his scumposting. First ortolan, now me - accusing me of going after an easy lynch on page 6 of a game with 27 players LOLWUT. Also, attitude towards worship is pretty terrible.

I'm saying Endless are part of Great Old Ones via worship list (I just thought we weren't on there) HOWEVER I do not know if they are the totality of Great Old Ones and every fiber of my being says that they aren't.

Noted.
-Please, DTM, stop with the walls of crap. Succinctness is next to townieness. When I see posts like this I just refuse to read them because seriously I don't know what even.
-Thanks Iec for the rolefishing links. I'm happy to treat rolefishing as anti-town, but not a scumtell.
-This post by SpyreX on Mina reinforces my townread on SpyreX. I agree with him about the cognitive dissonance; it's like a consistency tell, but it's stronger than that. When Mina tries to say that we shouldn't discuss the worship mechanic, that requires a particular mindset that is incompatible with someone who discusses the worship mechanic. The fact that these two contradictory ideas can be held in Mina's mind speaks to a shifting attitude based on convenience rather than an attempt to find scum. Mina's response is completely tangential to the point SpyreX was making - does she think we should talk about the worship mechanic, or not?
Also,

I really don't think your reasons are fair. I never said anything about not wanting to be accused of rolefishing at the time. I thought it was perfectly safe to discuss if the replacements were recruited but potentially dangerous to talk too much about the role of the gods in this game. It's not as if I have to be either totally open about role/set-up speculation or totally silent. Why can't there be a middle ground?

I'm more sympathetic to SpyreX's "cognitive dissonance" accusations.

(My emphasis)
Being sympathetic to a case against you without addressing it is very weird.

We're in the double digits and LOLNIKA hasn't comitted a scumtell yet and been obvious, so I'll lean town on him.

The opportunistic Mina vote for info got my hackles up...

@Spy: Mina is town. Cast thy nets elsewhere.

Interesting post from MO. Mina had been discussing DTM's interaction with MO, and it felt like Mina was assuming MO town as well. Interaction noted!
Vote Count weirdness:

14 Elscouta (1) -
15 DarkStalker (0) - CryMeARiver, SaintKerrigan
16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck
17 Nikanor (2) -
18 Mina (3) - dramonic
19 SpyreX (0) -
20 Katy (0) -

If dramonic isn't affected by Delerium (which seems accurate), then the same must be true of one of {SpyreX, Nikanor, Starbuck}.

People claiming who they are going to worship is bad because they are probably going to worship their own faction, which gives insight to who is in what group.

As I said earlier, locking scum into claims now is good. We don't know if all gods are bad, or what kind of benefit people get if they're worshipped. We don't know the relationship between gods of the same pantheon. Leaving the scum alone with this information and not investigating it seems completely bizarre. There is important information to be gleaned, so let's get to gleaning, I say. Also, accusing Iecerint of claiming Norse God is misinformation - he answered the question, "who would you worship", not "who are you".
-This is a very nice catch from Fate. Ortolan characterised it as a lurker-vote, but it really isn't.

I am a bit suspicious of some people blindly following ABR like he's the messiah, but at the moment I don't see any harm in his plan.

Um, what? How is your attitude different from most people's? What do you think of ABR's town-leading plan, other than you "don't see any harm in it"?

I'm a miller

Combined with his impossible-to-back-out-of claim about "borrowed time", I'm very inclined to believe Tar.

The more they know about our worship votes, the more easily they can plan their strategy. I'd much rather prevent the scum from learning more info about our worship votes (and anything else in general) than is necessary.

The alternative is to not talk about worshipping, and have worship be effectively at random, I think, unless you are proposing a different alternative. Whilst it's true that not talking about worship prevents scum manipulation, I think it's better to try and look for scum manipulation than randomly empower particular pantheons.

And what's to say there isn't a scum ability to change people's worship votes?

Wouldn't it be better to confirm or discount this theory?
-Fate as third party makes a lot of sense. Fate needing to die also makes a lot of sense.

As for worship, I'm happy to worship anyone who puts forth the best campaign. I am especially willing to worship any gods who offer me cookies and/or magical powers.

I do like this plan, as scum who try to buy the town's worship vote will be held more accountable for their actions, and locking scumclaims down early is good etc.
-MO continues to insist that Mina is town here. I honestly don't get it - Mina is defending herself (mostly), so why does MO feel the need to defend her? Even if they (the hydra, that is) have seekrit info, surely this is premature...?

OK, up to post 450, can't do this any more, there are only so many times I can listen to Option Paralysis on repeat before I have to go do something else. I'll keep working on it when my brain isn't completely mafia'd out. I'll keep my vote on raj for now, but I'll state a proper case and vote someone with gusto in the next post. For now, I'm seeing something in the MO/Mina/Fate triangle, but I'm not sure what.

[Percy]

Working on it. I'll get caught up soon.

[Percy]

Rather than posting again promising content and then not delivering, I'm going to let someone else take this slot.

@Mod: Please replace me.

Sorry everybody