Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[SpyreX]

Whatup game.

I am interested in ABR's business and will subscribe to the newsletter.

HOWEVER, I am waiting for confirmation on something but this whole hullaballoo with the voting may a.) be my fault b.) not be contained to voting and c.) only fixable in two ways - one of which is lynching me.

Depending on response I will have more information.

GO GO BEST RANDOM VOTE EVER:

Vote: SpyreX

(Yea, I don't even know who this is voting but I dont care at the mo because we're not going to do anything stupid until I get this issue figured out, k? HINT: THAT MEANS IF YOU ARE COOL AND CAN DO THINGS DURING DAY DO NOT DO THEM YET)

[SpyreX]

Ohh ABR we're gonna go places this game. Awesome places.

Although, based on what I'm feeling out you MAY have to kill me in order for things to go well - maybe not, but we'll see.

[SpyreX]

Yeee-haw.

Ok, lemme lay this out as much as I can without causing any other issues:

Let me be clear: IF ANYTHING IN THIS APPLIES TO YOU DO NOT OUT YOURSELF TO CONFIRM ME.

I am Delirium/Delight of the Endless. My whole role changes whether or not the endless are who are being worshiped (Delirium/Delight, specifically).

While I am Delirium, all actions shift two down the list. Thats right. ALL actions (yea, this may help the scum not screw up but the net result depending could be worse).

I'm not getting into what happens if I am Delight. Lets just say that if all the endless are town its a pretty sweet ass gig.

So, depending on ABR's worship-o-meter (and the endless don't even appear to be a worshippable group at the mo') you may want to keep this in mind or lynch me. If ABR's plan could use the endless as the focal point that'd be pretty swank.

[SpyreX]

As an aside I absolutely don't understand Fate-hate at this junction.

If the result is that disproportionately imba, the simpler explanation is that a disproportionate set of your group is scum, if anything. I suppose this may fluctuate depending upon the factors that make the Endless worshipable.

I'm not going into detail but depending on the makeup it is really nice for town overall and could be absolutely scandalous for scum.

@SpyreX, the explanation of the vote shift is nice. Am I to take it from what you said that the votes are treated as an ability as far as you know? Or are you saying that all abilities as well as votes are shifted by two players? Does the shift apply to passive abilities and reactive abilities as well as active (I think the answer to that should be obvious but I'd like to confirm.)

All actions and votes. Passives might be weird but, again, thats why I'd like to not have to deal with this because all we need is a chucklehead tired and/or not paying attention and a world of failure opens up.

[SpyreX]

To the Wizard: Why'd you go and out yourself, meh. I would've kept it in the dark and watched scum shoot themselves in the face, but maybe that's just me. The all actions thing probably will help the 20 townies with actions more than hurt scum.

That whole majority issue was the big one - and, of course, I don't know if (although I'm asking) people would be aware they shifted.

Additionally our mod is awesome and responsive and this affects anything that it would make sense to alter - i.e. anything with a target.

[SpyreX]

ABR is kinda like Delirium/Delight - soo lets have him be AWESOME MODE and this'll be tech.

If its crazy mode well as his self appointed ego buster I'll have to bust egos.

Something deep in my belly tells me thats not gonna be an issue though.

[SpyreX]

SCOOP SCOOP

Endless are the Great Old Ones on the chart.

I don't know if they're ALL of them, but.

[SpyreX]

So please scum, speculate what it is in your QT. It would make me happy post-game! (God this thread is going to be 100 pages isn't it?)

I will be shocked and awed if its ONLY 100 pages at the end.

Again, especially so ABR doesn't miss this because I was awesome and didn't catch it: Endless are "Great Old Ones".

Which I wont get tooo tinfoil about but I get a worry in my belly-meats that endless aren't the totality of that set.

[SpyreX]

I'm very familiar with the series - and the Endless are, well, endless sooo.

But, yes, I saw that and went "Culthlu'd" immediately.

And Zeetster we're on the worship list.

[SpyreX]

I'm saying Endless are part of Great Old Ones via worship list (I just thought we weren't on there) HOWEVER I do not know if they are the totality of Great Old Ones and every fiber of my being says that they aren't.

As for other things being in that set? The one that springs to mind is Lovecraftian. I don't know off the top of my head what other mythologies could fit in there.

Again, however, this could be pure paranoia BUTTT if the seven Endless exist and the other six are tech like I am BUT worship is counterbalanced against the sonsabitch Master of R'lyeh himself not to mention his homies getting some love wellll

Yea, thats not a happy situation

[SpyreX]

Damnit Fate we've just covered the whole madness factor with my presence so are you playing slappywags STILL

Anywho while we're going through and looking lemme see if there's a scums in here waiting for the delicious.

[SpyreX]

Hold on, when someone says "Great Old Ones" I think Cthulhu, Hastur, Ythogtha et al. from the Lovecraft mythos, but the "Endless" are from Gaiman's Sandman. @SpyreX: If we want some time with Delight, do we worship "Great Old Ones" or "The Endless"?

Yea yea I know and I'm a little skeptical (and was a little sad when "The Endless" wasn't an option on the worship list) butttt the mod told me so and if he's lying which I doubt well.

It kinda makes sense - in comparable mythologies The Endless would be Great Old Ones much like, well, the Great Old Ones.

But, yea. A vote for the Endless very well is a vote for He Who Sleeps too.

[SpyreX]

* Very well could be, not is.

Even though I'm mos def assuming is.

[SpyreX]

Tinfoil Modfom: Would our mod take an obvious connection and "deliver" a role to a player? Cause if that's the case well.

That said I actually read all the words and:

Vote: Snow_Bunny

(Mina)

Yea. This one is for real. Mad real in fact. Its not the rolefishing persay (although the dissonance is tech) its everything. This is one of them good ol fashioned hang-em high bidnesses.

I see some people that give me those warm and fuzzy vibes but, alas, time isn't ripe yet.

[SpyreX]

It says actions and votes, but I'll make sure.

[SpyreX]

GARRRR I hate having to post reasons unless its serious business come on now but FINE:

Leaving the who brought you / no rolefishing aside, this is what bothers me the most:

I have a few theories about the set-up, but I'm worried they'll lead to rolefishing. The only thing I'll say is that if someone has a great reason for why we should worship a certain faction (and it won't give away his role), he or she should come forward.

(Right now, I'd guess that it wouldn't be such a great idea to worship the Old Ones.)

Talking too much about the role of gods in this set-up in general, on the other hand, can definitely give away which players are certain characters or factions, either because they'll betray too much or too little information.

I don't like that. At all.

One bit. Thats one of them thar' congative dissonance things that makes me itch. Coupled with the rolefishing bit my hackles rise.

Add in:

This is my first Large Game on this site, so I'm not quite sure what to expect for scum size. Maybe 7-8 (25% of 28)? Why do you ask, ABR? What useful information do you think that would give you?

I thought a bit before asking that first question, but I decided that knowing whether DTMaster and Ortolan were recruited by specific players (they don't even have to reveal who) or factions or were just randomly assigned to the game tells us nothing about their role and potentially useful information about their alignment.

I can definitely see the Mafia having the option of recruiting from the replacements list.

And how they react to my question would allow us to read them better, too.

And I get all aflutter with paranoia. This seems like such a strange piece of information.

Additionally, there is already some SECRET INFORMATION to be pulled if Mina is scum. Secret, delicious information.

[SpyreX]

You're letting SX and Raj off with not knowing about the vote mechanic.

Who what when?

Where/what did I do that would make someone think I didn't understand the issues with the vote mechanic? What with it being my fault and all.

And the awesome mod just clarified that the lynch would be on two down, not 4.

[SpyreX]

"Who brought you in?"
"Don't rolefish!"

"Worshipping the Old Gods is bad!"
"Don't talk too much about the worship mechanic"

"What information could you get about asking how many scum there are?"
"I think scum can recruit from the replacement pool"

Maybe like that'll explain it good.

---

Ice:

What's your read on me? Scum/town/etc?

[SpyreX]

So long as some players have said SX is scum, I think he's town.

What in the hells? How does this work? Who has said I'm scum?

What IS THIS?

And, even more importantly:

If you think I'm town, and I'm the ONLY ONE who has laid out anything about their worshipping, why would you say you'd be gung-ho norse instead of some version of "Well, SpyreX is town and said Endless are gonna be tech sooo" or even "It'll be whatever ABR's plan requires."

And Nik I may, in fact, be turning this wagon 'round but even if I don't its SECRET INFORMATION but not IRONCLAD DEATH METAL.

[SpyreX]

Because your bolded Norse Gods really, REALLY bothers me.

The dissonance is scummy. Enough that I'd put a bullet through it hands down.

[SpyreX]

I'll say this and lay this out (OHH SNAP META BEWARE): Cognitive Dissonance is still my absolute favorite and one of the few fairly reliable (i'll flip hard on even a HARD town read) scum tells.

It fuels my powerful wizardom more than any other single piece of data.

It is known.

@Ice: The quotes in my post on this page (" marks not quote quotes)

[SpyreX]

Its where "actions" dont align with "words".

A very obvious example: someone self voted and later in the day attacked someone else for self voting (as, of course, self-voting is scummy).

So, the logic behind it was:

Self-voting is scummy.
X self-voted.
Therefore X is scum.

The PROBLEM lies when the person doing it also performed the action. There is a dissonance between what they are saying and what they are doing.

Along the same lines, saying something along the lines of "Worshipping the Old Gods is a bad idea" and then espousing an opinion of "Discussion of the worshipping mechanic will be beneficial to the scum" creates the same kind of dissonance.

Or, again, asking in the tone of surprise what information can be garnered from asking how many scum there are and then giving an opinion that does just that.

Yea

[SpyreX]

Long story short: I ripped something in my neck and have been a little wacked out on painkillers so I may be missing things but I caught upish.

I'm asking about the worship vote (whomever that was who said that is probably town fyi).

Mina still doesn't give me those good vibes at all. I'd put a bullet thar.

HOWEVER, Orts manuver is worthy of a dangling too. I'll probably swing my vote that way once I'm clear in the brain department.

Ice, additionally, is on the short list.

ABR is still town.

[SpyreX]

My ability DOES affect the worship vote: but not in the way we think - it is both a vote and an action so it goes all the way around the horn with 4 factions.

If factions disappear / get added for worship then be wary of it.

Els is town, then.

[SpyreX]

If I need to read things its not happening tonight. Lets just say that the simple fact I didn't think about the Worship vote lends credence to others not, which helps town more than scum in clearing up.

[SpyreX]

Ohhhh no I saw in passing but with my awesome rememberingitude can't remember who said to check the worship target. THAT person is town.

[SpyreX]

Hrmm.

I never said, nor implied, that I thought Mina was town and was voting for information. In fact, I was very clear that I think she is scum AND if I am right there are sweet, delectable morsels to be garnered from it.

I could swing Mina, Ice, Ort. In that order of preference by small margins.

[SpyreX]

What is a lynch rolecop?

Annnywhooo I'm gonna need more than I'm wrong on Mina.

Additionally I feel like this is a 10 player game versus a 28 player one. The quiet ones need to become not quiet.

[SpyreX]

I am saying it over and over again. True story. Not explaining what I mean when asked. I am a parrot. KAA-CAWW

Ohh snap I'm scum (but not scum) that's pretty tech and I approve.

I guess it makes sense since I'm crazy what with the fact that you both being special snowflakes in the scumstorm doesn't mean there has to be connections there.

And nope, never once did I say what bothers me about Ice. Another true story. I've been too busy just talking solely about cognitive dissonance in large and robust essays complete with pictorial evidence.

[SpyreX]

What new information am I supposed to be reacting to? I sure haven't seen anything that makes me see the error of my ways.

Dissonance is dissonance. I'm not going to argue with you why you're scum. I'm far more interested in the discussions with your protectorate.

If you're going to skim stuff like that JUST ENOUGH to make a wrong statement and then not look deeper don't look at me for help. Definitely not D1 of a large game.

Manho's hop is a function of what this flip brings. Do I like it? Not particularly. Do I think its a bus move? Probably not. So, if you are scum is that scummy? Probably not.

Again its really tech watching you skirt that line - you REALLY want to balls up and say I'm scum yet you keep backing down from it. Its awesome. I mean, you've said I look like a duck, I quack like a duck, but my fancy hat means I'm the King of England.

Yessir.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, in case you don't refuse to answer, is your point on Iec the same as ABR's--that you don't like how he was pushing for the Norse gods instead of waiting for the plan? I've read all your posts. That's the only reasons you ever gave for suspecting Iec. Correct me if I'm wrong with actual quotes.

That's a pretty big deal, actually. Considering everything thats going on throwing that out there makes little sense at that juncture except to be self-serving. Which is bad news.

But, if you want to take your ball and go home go for it. Saying I'm refusing to respond in a post in response to mine is awesome.

Parama be town yo'. I dig that style of irritation a long way.
ABR isn't playing up the greatest scum mastermind, btw. It's too big of a target. This new third party talk is also tech and awesome.

And scum daytalking isn't a SHOCKING REVELATION by any means. The difference is minimal and, often, can help catch more along the way.

But, we need some galvinization. ABR its time to lay out the cards so we can pick a direction and move.

[SpyreX]

I hate today so much.

I swear when Mina dies and actually flips scum I'm systematically carpet bombing the great protectorate. Even from the grave.

ABR, please give your plan and lets move forward. PLEASE.

[SpyreX]

Implicit?

I'm pretty explicit about it. Don't play coy.

And toot that horn! Find thems scums!

Because getting a whole lot of "ehhh, err, ehhh she's not scum yo'" without anything else to bite into really gets my wheels spinning.

[SpyreX]

You're going to argue with me whether or not my ABR SET FORTH YOUR PLAN SO WE CAN MOVE means end the day?

And Fate's WORSHIP THEN LYNCH isn't explicit either?

Are you arguing just for the sake or arguing at this point?

[SpyreX]

Baaaaa

Unvote
Vote: CMAR (Ort)

[SpyreX]

Soo you were in fact being coy when you said "some people" and actually meant "SpyreX and only SpyreX"

And I guess it wasn't explicit enough. I suppose I could have meant move forward to delicious tea parties because, well, that is the natural extension of moving forward in a mafia game.

I mean if you REALLY want me to lynch you for senseless arguing I can probably pull that together if you'd like?

[SpyreX]

If you had said "I hate when people explicitly want the day to end" I'm pretty sure my response would have been "Why? Long day 1's are stttupppiddddd"

Just for the record there is a 324324% chance of that happening.

I do approve, once again, of the backhanded I'm scum but not.

Man up. Do it or don't.

Yo Fate:

You wanna gamble for the lynch today? Even's on Ice, Odds on Ort, a 10 is Mina?

Sound good?

[SpyreX]

I am definitely not a ball of love. I've had a day. That was at the end of a week. That, really, was at the end of a month. I'll freely admit my irritation is pouring over into this.

However, that doesn't change a thing. What's so scummy about my play? What's so scummy about getting irritated watching half the game being 2kool4playin and the other ones playing slappywags with picking a target and moving. What am I not "playing consistently" with? Clear. Examples.

Fate put it pretty clear: Biggest wagon? 3 votes. 21 pages in that is ridiculous.

And as for "looking for scum instead of playing worship" I'm pretty sure the whole plan is ABR has some secret stratgem for, in fact, finding scum via worship which is pretty tech.

Fate, ABR, Els are off my list. At this point I'd literally kill anyone else.

This is why I'm never allowed to be a dayvig I think.

[SpyreX]

MO is the one that makes me itch the most. But all these Mina is townnnnn without the nice, clear bite with a different direction to go irritate me yes.

[SpyreX]

Show what you're talking about with ABR.

[SpyreX]

Hot damn an ooba strikes. I like. I want more.

@Ice:

There IS some things I'll want to discuss with you in there that actually peak my interest but:

ABR says I'm scummy for trying to expose god factions, then he tries to expose my faction. First instance of CD.

No. ABR, and I, called you out for exposing your own faction. In a way that made no town sense. That's not what I'm talking about.

The other part though with the domino effect business I may want to look at. That IS actually interesting. Probably not enough to sway me but enough to make me look REALLY critically at whatever his plan is.

[SpyreX]

Ohh and for the record: I'm prettyyyy sure I'd qualify as a God. I have no QT.

I find it interesting in that weird way that Percy calls out DTM for "walls" in a wall-post. The saving grace is I like both what DTM and Percy have to say (when DTM isn't focusing on his PR at least).

[SpyreX]

There BETTER be other endless in the game or my role doesn't make "the sense".

Regardless, no QT

[SpyreX]

God fate I'm in love all over again. 558 is enough to proxy.

[SpyreX]

Actually I'm a little miffed at the chicken/egg game we've got going:

It sure seems like a lot of people are sitting on their laurels until ABR busts out the MASTERPLAN.

ABR says no MASTERPLAN until people get off their laurels.

This circle needs to stop.

If Plum doesn't have whatever the awesome post was up soon even if she's my super-homie she might have to rope. You've been non-existent this game in a baaad way.

[SpyreX]

I switched away from Fate because SX and others had given information

about Fate's meta

I hadn't known.

If I had a bullet for such blasphemous words you would be eating the daises good sir.

Fate was that a damn fake vig? FFFF. Good thing you're oozing town from your pores and if you're right about ort then THIS BETTER GET A ROCKIN'.

I admit I'm underwhelmed by what I've seen -thus far- from ABR's plan. Plum's doin a bit better but wizard needs food badly.

My absolute favorite part in the pages I missed though? Mina's "HOW COULD YOU DARE THINK I COULD EVER BE SCUM WITH ICE. ADDITIONALLY ABR AND SPYREX ARE TOTALLY SCUM TOGETHER BECAUSE OF THE SMOOTH BODY MASSAGES."

I mean, they are smooth (I have magic hands) but seriously now. Tsk, tsk.

Part of it is self-motivated sure but these votes shootin out towards other factions without any word AND not bellyin' up and saying they think I'm scum playing slappywags with my business bother me.

Again:
There is, definitely, more than just me as Endless (or I will strangle the mod).
The Endless powerup for worship is pretty sweet.
Having no real explanation for voting elsewhere is just painting a giant target because apparently there's some wackiness going on on the sidelines AS WELL AS the copious other reasons for not doing this.

So, unless I missed a memo about why delvin' in the dark is 2kool4skool I'm baffled at some of these proclaimed worships.

Again, the biggest fattest <3 for fate.
A smaller one for Nik now. I'm not even going to explain why I like his latest posts because that would be a multi page argument that just isn't worth it. Lets just say good things.
Even Chrono is starting to rub me a good way. These are good things.

[SpyreX]

Other stuff later I'm out for most of the day:

@SpyreX, I think that it's pretty clear what Mina is trying to say in terms of daytalking in quick topics. At least I think it should be to anyone who isn't in a quick topic. It's fascinating that you say you're not in a quick topic and also seem not to be getting what she's about. Or do I misunderstand your level of understanding?

Maybe I am. Daytalking isn't SHOCKING REVELATION to me. At all. Definitely not an emphasis on the day part like that meant he was up to no good?

[SpyreX]

Just so its clear again:

I am pretty damn sure the Endless are in the game (as in more than me). Considering what my factional worship gain is it will be very nice for them to have (and me, but them especially).

I see what you're saying MO and I kindaaa see where you're coming from but.

I like SK's last post quite a bit.

[SpyreX]

Btw, Spyrex taking Iec's suggestion that scum can daytalk as true seems odd. Scummy++.

Why? Daytalking wouldn't surprise me in the least.

If thats Scummy++ why am I too cool to get ranked anywhere?

Oh, I'm fairly confident about Mina. Syreen-kiss confident, almost.

You realize that I MAY acquiesce for a bit then but if she flips a scum PR you might as well just rope yourself, rite?

In post 500 and a few posts on page 20 Who all is in this great protectorate you keep speaking of whenever you refer to mina? You mentioned Orbits in 515 but were there specifically any others or were you ranting in general. Also why did you jump to orto in 506? I can't find reason for why you suspect orto or thought those suspicions were better then what you had on mina. And you seemed to want to hurry they day but not end it there which confused me. You are playing real iratic here.

Ranting in general, mostly. MO was the one that really stood out but again, it really seems like there's a whole lot of "Ohh yea she's town." without depth or bite. Which irritates me.

Orto, if Fate is right (and he would have no reason to lie), is actively avoiding this game. Cases aside that is a kill offense. Period.

I always want to hurry the day. I'm not sure what you mean by "not end it there" though?

[SpyreX]

Well Ice really has no reason to lie about daytalking if he's going to bring it up regardless of side AND it really doesn't ever surprise me?

So, yea, that part makes sense.

[SpyreX]

Ohh hell I'm not gonna argue you there and a vig would be well placed to ka-ching up ins.

[SpyreX]

If there is an Ort scum I could swing behind a totallynotmafia lynch in the near future, fyi.

[SpyreX]

SECRET REASONS.

We'll see when the cards flop.

[SpyreX]

Good smart reasons.

Ort's gonna be scum I can feel it feel it feel it.

[SpyreX]

You talking about totallynotmafia? You see it too? CAN YOU FEEL IT?

[SpyreX]

So, lets see.

If Ort is scum:
TNM is scum.
CMAR gets vigged regardless (YOU BETTER BE PAYING ATTENTION SKS THAT WANT TO CLAIM VIG LATER)
Ice? Probably town. Which makes some other interactions real interesting.

[SpyreX]

Tee-hee ohh vig if TNM dies that is also acceptable.

Yes this is regardless of flip.

However ort is flipping scum.

[SpyreX]

AN UNVOTE APPROACHES

Also, fuck you, SpyreX, for being town.

Seriously MO this is what you're protecting.

I want that known.

[SpyreX]

827 is a mystery wrapped in an engima.

[SpyreX]

You can respond tomorrow. Chances of you getting killed (because you still probably are scum) are slim to none. Those two? Probably still fine too.

[SpyreX]

Ok, you can try to lynch me, heck, mafia can even try to kill me, but I can only die one way, and I kind of control that, so have fun trying to get rid of me. And no, I'm not third party, but rather important to the town.
To all of Iec's suspicion, yes, I have been more insincere in this game and, while it doesn't quite fit my town meta, it definitely doesn't fit my scum meta if you check any of my scum games. It just fits my "struggling to keep up" meta. So I agree with an Orto lynch, even though he probably, like me, is just struggling to keep up. Isn't this fun guys?

What in the HELL IS THIS.

Seriously.

Ohh this day needs to end. Sooner versus later.

[SpyreX]

Or sure whatever works. That is a great vig shot TIA.

Flip will be correct so sayith the mod.

[SpyreX]

Mina here's my #1 Hi-C tip for right now:

You're not getting lynched today. Go on the offensive. A night may bring a myriad of things and having the offensive side down if you are town is WAY more important than the defensive at this juncture.

Further, offense isn't going to cause near as much white noise.

lynching ort NOW versus later is good because there's a nice nugget that fell through AND 30 pages is pushing the absolute edge of "a good day one" and not "kill me now pleaselordpleasepleaseplease day one."

I dont want the latter.

Sometimes a mislynch is better than 30 more pages leading to a right lynch on day one YEA I SAID IT.

[SpyreX]

* correct as far in I AM NOT CAUSING IT TO BE WRONG.

[SpyreX]

My patience isn't high. I have some though. I kinda see where your going with this BUT its still operating under the assumation there is ties between recruiter and recruited that I have never been sold on.

And no need to thank me - even if you are scum the offensive is FAR more useful down the road than defensive.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: Would you describe deity stuff as being closer to Outsiders in Legacy of the Ancients or Minbari in Babylon 5: Severed Dreams?

I'm not familiar enough with either to say for sure but as PYS used a mechanic similar to the Outsiders I'd definitely say its not the same (points mechanism).

Ort hangs.

[SpyreX]

What in the hell is this?

I'm sorry. I like Ort. However, ignoring a game, coming in and blaming the players for noticing and then picking up your ball and going home does not a derail make.

Ort hangs. CMAR can get shot. Or dealt with later.

[SpyreX]

Ohh what a world if Ort is a GF that'd be sweetest juice because this is just ridiculous.

[SpyreX]

Mmmm hammer.

[SpyreX]

I'd love to see in what world this play helps town. If you'd just claimed third party sure but this mess makes me angry.

[SpyreX]

Dag nabbit.

I thought we got this done.

And -long- days most emphatically do not help town. True story.

[SpyreX]

Awesome. See you guys June 15th then.