Finals late this week spilling over into early next week. Dont expect much from me untill after that.
Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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##vote farside
Finals late this week spilling over into early next week. Dont expect much from me untill after that.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Nope, meta says UK and DGB are town.VP Baltar wrote:Just based on meta, I'd say that UncertainKitten couldn't resist taking scum or other.-
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/wagon
##unvote
##Vote xvart
post 101 is so... reachy/ignorant
Also Parama is town for the people who havent figured it out.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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NopeVP Baltar wrote:@Elli and Llama, your position that parama is too scummy to be scum?
He just doesnt read as scummy. That on top of his stance on meta being pretty identical to town him in a recent game, im going to go say he is fairly safe town at this point. His opening post is the only reason I dont have him as definantly town.
@UK - VI isnt scummy, just frustrating. Parama just needs to have someone direct him to a target.
@VPB - Im going to say there is almost zero chance UK is mafia, other is unlikely as well, due to past experience. DGB is town too for the same reason.-
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@VPB - I played a game where everyone starts as town then can change to scum if they want, DBG and UK were in that game with me and stayed town. Thats weighing heavily.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Parama is towncharter wrote:Parama's contradiction in like his first three posts is suspect. Not sure if he's town or scum yet.
Also charter is probably town, should know for sure by page 20-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Seriously people, xvart wagon. Guy is scum. Look at some of this stuff
Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of pointsxvart wrote:
Why would you lead your case on gut, then follow with shallow logic? Wouldn't you want to lead with your most credible evidence (i.e. shallow posts) and then follow up with the less substantiated personal feelings of his posts?Parama wrote:I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.
Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.
Wait... what? Did I miss something? You have a QT? When did town aligned peeps get QTs??Ellibereth wrote:DGB from one the QT of ours ->
^^^About reading Para.I have to agree... another SlySly... watch out if he seems townie!
I think he's town.
I think any town aligned player can make a guess at anti-town numbers
I don't see a town aligned person getting a role pm that gives an indication of town population makeup.Parama wrote:A guess based on my role PM.
Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.xvart wrote:
So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.Ojanen wrote:This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware andquotetheir mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.
Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.
If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?Parama wrote:Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.
This guy is grasping at any available straw, and trying to turn anything he can find into a case at this point. We need a wagon going here. His vote seems to be in the wrong place, his reasons for suspicions all seem to ignore simple answers, nothing here reads like town trying to make a case.-
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So then he was scummy for the ordering, sound like if it was the other way around it would have been a null factor.xvart wrote:
I'm not trying to call him scum based on that, at all. I've already called him scum.LlamaFluff wrote:Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of pointsHis post reads like his defense is all gut, with an afterthought to the shallow logic.That is not even close the defining scum characteristic.
You are ignoring the simplest answer still. It was a QT from a past game hydra. Are you honestly trying to argue that Eli tried to prove a point by quoting the scum QT in such a way that it could not have been accidental? They arent masons, they arent scum, they ARE both town. Let it go, you are wrong.
You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.LlamaFluff wrote:Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.
So its not a slip then? If you think they slipped, I would belive that you would be voting that over a read. Your choice of suspicions make no sense, apart from just trying to get the easier lynch through.
As much as it appears to me that you are trying to undermine my priorities and voting behavior I believe I have been pretty clear. Parama is scum (hence the vote) and Elli and DGB is suspicious (hence the Finger ofLlamaFluff wrote:Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.Suspicion).
Please... read between the lines. I looked at my role and immediately speculated on how many town players there are, and likely how many scum/other exist. How could speculating in this setup possibly be a tell?
And speculation in any other game is completely different from speculation in this game, where people got to select what faction they wanted to be on. Anyone who says there are 6 scum in the game and 4 other sided (in a game where people picked their side), then says it is a "guess" based on role PM clearly has at least a little more information than an uninformed minority.LlamaFluff wrote:
Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.
If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?Parama wrote:Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.
@charter - He is stuck a little too hard on Parama lynch for my liking, but its nowhere near enough to vote him.-
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Yeah im going to defend my town reads hardcore. Especially against really bad points. Lets try you. Why is guessing scummy?Nicodemus wrote:Llama, for his over-the-top defense of Parama, like when he was defending Parama's guesses at anti-town factions. I'm willing to accept that Parama was joking because Parama does stuff like this, but Llama takes it to a whole different level by saying "anyone can make guesses! Guesses aren't scummy! I'm really on Parama's side here!"
Obviously town and slightly scummy.@ Llama: What do you think of UK and Zorblag?
I see what DGB is talking about at apparently meta backs this up (?). Never have played with him so I have nothing good to base it off of. Either way, xvart wagon is far better than zorblag wagon.-
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You only need two words (and a ##). Those are "xvart" and "vote"VP Baltar wrote:After I make dinner, I plan to drink an entire bottle of wine while catching up in this game. Prepare for words children.
@farside - Would you prefer a Phate or xvart lynch right now?-
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This is actually somewhat along the lines of charter-town play.xvart wrote:
So you are now voting for the person you think is scum but less sure is scum? Why?charter wrote:I voted Balter first, then saw you had more votes so I switched on to you. I think you're both scum, but I'm more sure of Balter.
Lets assume for a minute that we arent going to lynch Parama, who is your next best lynch and why?
@VPB - Yeah that game is the biggest reason I have UK-town. Some people really hate being anti-town, that game, and past experience with UK says thats she is one of them.-
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@xvart - Ignoring 173 doesnt make the case on you go away.
I would rather lynch xvart today and just point someone with a gun at phate tonight. Never have been a big fan of lurker lynches though when situations arent desperate.
Also RC is probably scum-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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So ordering was scummy?xvart wrote:
I read his post that his case was based on how his gut feeling on every post was off, then an afterthought of shallow logic. That's how it reads to me. When I build a case I start with the concrete and then would follow with "oh, and every post he makes I do not like."LlamaFluff wrote:So then he was scummy for the ordering, sound like if it was the other way around it would have been a null factor.
Good, so you are going to join the DGB and Eli are town camp I guess?
Yes, I was; although it was not because I was ignoring it.LlamaFluff wrote:You are ignoring the simplest answer still. It was a QT from a past game hydra. Are you honestly trying to argue that Eli tried to prove a point by quoting the scum QT in such a way that it could not have been accidental? They arent masons, they arent scum, they ARE both town. Let it go, you are wrong.
Kinda specific. I would say 4/5 scum and 5/6 other. There are ways town can speculate on numbers though. If you are a cop that gets to investigate as many people as they want in a row untill they find two people that do not share alignments, you can make a guess that there is a lot of anti-town. If you are a hated-miller-gravedigger-voteless townie, you can assume there arent a lot of scum.
And how definite was your speculation?LlamaFluff wrote:Please... read between the lines. I looked at my role and immediately speculated on how many town players there are, and likely how many scum/other exist. How could speculating in this setup possibly be a tell?
Saying I have a town read on him for saying something isnt answering for him.
Good to know. Thanks for answering for him.LlamaFluff wrote:This is actually somewhat along the lines of charter-town play.-
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Hey RC, do you have any scum reads that arent one of the top five picks for the town?-
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Scum obviously unless you have a town read on a player getting wagoned.RedCoyote wrote:
Top five picks for scum or for town?Llama 307 wrote:Hey RC, do you have any scum reads that arent one of the top five picks for the town?
Well Jack, xvart are populars. What is your reasoning on farside? All I can see is what happened due to '##' voting. What about gamma? All I have seen you say on him is "posts are worded poorly".I gave a list in my previous post, and I'd say it was a pretty good range of players. xvart, Jack, farside, Gamma, and any of the lurkers (including Phate, Cobalt, pops, Jazzmyn, SttB) would be acceptable lynches for me at this point (I had VP/Parama on there as well, but I've been liking their more recent posts).
There's a lot of scum in that group, no doubt.
Saying "the lurkers" (although you missed a few, was this intentional?) is also a cop out. Which lurkers are scummier than other lurkers?
What about VP/Parama? Are they neurtal? Town? Just less of scum reads?-
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Only one? I would say at least three. Wagon for the most part is all my neutral-slight scum reads.DrippingGoofball wrote:Withing Phate's 7 votes, there is undoubtedly at least one scum. Regardless of Phate's alignment.
If he's other... well it depends if "other" is a group thing, or individual thing.
So. What about pops.
Whats your opinion on RC?-
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You gotta be aggressive with your "at leasts" makes people pay more attention to them.DrippingGoofball wrote:I said AT LEAST one scum. RC is still neutral. Why are you interested in him in particular?
RC because im almost at the point where im ready to lynch him. Depending on how a couple things go that point may be as early as tomorrow.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Cool, phate is also town.
The following should be lynched sometime soon: xvart, RC, d3x and pops. Gamma may be added to this list dependingon what jack has to say.
@d3x - Can I get your top few scum reads with reasoning?
@RC - What are the timelines of your farside and Parama suspicions? Are the Jack/Gamma suspicions mostly signal to noise things? You seem to continually fall back to things like that about them.-
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@gamma - Jazz isnt posting anywhere on site. Im much more willing to chalk this one up to irl busyness than tactical lurking. Why Jazz over other lurkers though? Just seeing Jazz-scum lurk once?
@Jack - Your move over QT thing.
Point on fishy isnt bad at all, but there are two other questionable reads to me on that wagon (nico, VPB). I would put a big bet on at least one of the three being anti-town, just not sure enough as to which to start following that path.-
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Trying to see what distinguished jazz from them.Gammagooey wrote:Llama-It's the only game I've played with Jazz so that has a big part of it, I already listed pops and Cobalt, Shotty said he'd post sometime today, and d3x doesn't seem to be lurking anymore, which other lurkers are you referring to exactly?
@parama - That actually was a slight town tell from VPB, or at least a non-third party tell.-
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Hey cool, Jazz is replaced. Gamma can scumhunt now withoutdistractions.....excuses... having to worry about lurkers.... yeah that will work.-
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(excluding myself) Yes, Very likely, maybe, Yes, Yes, Probably (although if anything is other)Fishythefish wrote:@Llama, charter, Parama:You paid lip service to this wagon (and in Parama's case voted). Do you share the conviction that EVERY SINGLE ONE of
Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar
is town? Do you think that an 8 person wagon is significantly more likely to contain scum than a random group of 8 people?
Also yes, a group of 8 people who are making a non-random vote (or any action really) on a single wagon is slightly more likely to have scum. Almost neglegable, but it is going to be different.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Last post should have read "if anything not other" for VPB/Plum-
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All you lucky talking about AP tests... those you didnt need to study for (had Calc, Physics, Statistics and Biology with 3s and 4s on them). Will trade retaking those for college finals any day.
Is xvart near prod range yet?
Is Jack claiming a QT?-
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@UK - This
Gammagooey wrote:
To this hypothetical scenario, I would say that we are in fact not neighbors.Jack wrote:What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?-
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Me, UK, DGB, Eli, Parama +- DDD, VPPlum, Ojanen would be my personal starting point.Plum wrote:Thus game is perfect for UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCES but I don't see one's suggested. If Spy's stuck modding/setting up for this game I guess I'll have to do it myself.-
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Oh yeah, and +- Phate and charter.
Also if that dayvig is real... thats awesome-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Why do my slight town reads fight SO HARD to lose that status?Jack wrote:Sounds more like a scum reaction to me. The 2nd post where he accused DGB of being scum just sounds like he's trying to emphasize that he really believed the kill.
##unvote
##vote:popsofctown
Maybe scumbuddies with DGB, although everyone keeps yammering about DGB being obvtown like she couldn't play like this as scum.
Jack is probably town though, if nothing else due to the fact that I would happy with a dead entire Jack wagon.
Pops gets some town points, DGB gets even more town points, farside loses a few by ignoring the more important reaction just to throw a punch at Jack (but she is attacking RC which is awesome).
Hmmph... have a final tomorrow im going to study and retire for and im playing another two SCOOP events so thats going to (hopefully) eat up the entire day, even though they are my two weakest events im playing so they probably wont.-
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LlamaFluff wrote:Why do my slight town reads fight SO HARD to lose that status?-
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Actually if Jack just claims he has a QT with him we are lynching him. IIRC gamma already called BS on one existing.DrippingGoofball wrote:
If he scumslipped credibly, we're going to lynch him. I assumed your "question" was a rhetorical one.Jack wrote:Very few answered the question sadly. I don't think you have either.-
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Got it
Gammagooey wrote:
To this hypothetical scenario, I would say that we are in fact not neighborsJack wrote:Did RC just post a giant quote wall in which he complained about short posts creating too much noise? Yes. At least he sees gamma as scummy.
What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?-
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Yeah thats the conclusion ive come to. Now im just trying to figure out if xvart or RC should die first-
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Hyprocritical from someone who I have no idea where they stand on anything.Chronopie wrote:DGB and Jack are engaged in discussing semantics. Neighbours is just unconfirmed alignment masons.
Now please contribute content.
Thoughts on... fake daykill, xvart, fishy-scum logic, unbreakable alliance, RC and jack. Next post too if you do-
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More detailChronopie wrote:
Had it used on me in another <ongoing> game, useful tool, when used right, but subject to wifom (what isn't). Don't quite see it. Don't quite see/understand it. Dislike the pair of them, possible bussing.LlamaFluff wrote: Thoughts on... fake daykill, xvart, fishy-scum logic, unbreakable alliance, RC and jack. Next post too if you do-
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Because other people need to be shot, one of which may be you. Jury is out on that.Chronopie wrote:Pops is full of Wifom.
A claimed VT with lots of suspicion not getting shot why?-
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Jury is in, you are on the list.LlamaFluff wrote:
Because other people need to be shot, one of which may be you. Jury is out on that.Chronopie wrote:Pops is full of Wifom.
A claimed VT with lots of suspicion not getting shot why?-
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pops is town, at super worst pops is not the same alignment of xvartJack wrote:Nightless games are infinitely superior.
##vote:pops
try again. I reccomend RC or chrono-
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##Vote Fishy
Also lets not quicklynch too fast.-
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*sigh*Jack wrote:Is this an "I got a guilty result on him" kind of "fishy isn't town"? "Non-hostile other" would be not town you know. Be more specific.
Do I really need to give the "things like survivors are not town aligned so you lynch them" speech here?-
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What votecount are you looking at?d3x wrote:Hmm... Chrono is not Voting Fishy, thus she did not get a Scum result in whatever investigation. I'll withhold my Fishy Vote for the moment.-
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There is also one more thing I want to take care of before the day ends, it shouldnt take more than 24 real life hours, but I really want to look into it before the day ends. So please no quicklynch.-
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Ok...Jack wrote:LlamaFluff wrote:
*sigh*Jack wrote:Is this an "I got a guilty result on him" kind of "fishy isn't town"? "Non-hostile other" would be not town you know. Be more specific.
Do I really need to give the "things like survivors are not town aligned so you lynch them" speech here?I can't see me being enthused about a survivor lynchYes
all neutral roles are not aligned with the town, and will not play with the best interest of the town in mind. This is especially true if they have what they view as a win opportunity. A survivor will claim and vote with scum near the end of the game, jester will claim and just ask to be lynched by scum. No good comes from leaving a neutral player alive. They arent going to scumhunt, they arent going to ever help the town, they are just an anti-town role with no kill. So you lynch them.-
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Cobalt was complete null read, and I agree that chrono was scum read, untill he heavily breadcrumbed a non-town result on fishy. Then he became town.RedCoyote wrote:You know what? No, I'm not going to do this. I didn't like Cobalt, and I don't really see how Chrono has been much of an improvement.
Jack might be an ok person to direct a kill towards at night, almost just because I dont trust him not to do something foolish, but im not for lynching him right now.
Remember
1) No quicklynch (24 hours needed)
2) Chrono needs to post again before day ends
3) We may as well have a fishy post too-
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I believe farside knows fishy targeted RC.
I am not ready to lynch fishy. There are now two things I need to accomplish before the day ends.
@fishy - Who, if anyone, did you target last night?
##unvote-
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Well offically take him off L-1. Im very very serious. If anyone lynches today before I am ready I will do my best to get a gun pointed at them.RedCoyote wrote:I've been seriously mulling this over. I haven't felt good about farside at all, but I know for sure that I was roleblocked last night. It doesn't help that the website is not running very smoothly for me right now.
Fishy, who did you target yesterday if it wasn't me?
##Unvote
Ugh. It's a total shot to my pride if Fishy is my Roleblocker and farside is the one who uncovered this. Screw it; go big or go home.
##Vote: Fishythefish
(Unofficially, this puts Fishy at L-1)
Although oddly enough im thinking there is a far less chance RC is scum than before, other is an option but im doubting scum.-
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I need one thing im watching to resolve today, hopefully a second. Both of them are going to be far more benificial if they get done before a lynch as opposed to twilight.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Better state clear objectives.LlamaFluff wrote:Well offically take him off L-1. Im very very serious. If anyone lynches today before I am ready I will do my best to get a gun pointed at them.
Townies don't suffer non-townies to live.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Im not asking for you to lynch someone else, im asking for you to unvote. I have my reasons for wanting to wait a bit. People who have played with me know that I dont pull stuff like this with no basis, there are at least two very specific things that need to occur before we lynch. Neither of them has.farside22 wrote:*world smallest violin plays for Fish who has yet to explain my track results.*
Please read DGB sig as to what I expect Fishy is stalling for at this point but if people want to wait don't expect me to change my vote.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Ok everything is done.
No more quicklynch fear from me-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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fishy is going to be third party, not scum. Money says he is exactly what he claims to be.charter wrote:Giving Fishy time IS BAD. You know he isn't town, what if he needs 24 hours in order to do something to help his scumbuddies? Seriously, all you're doing by giving him time is allowing the opportunity for something destructive to happen.
Im not going to vote him for ~48 hours. His information will be useful-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Yep. Even the RB makes sense if you think about it from a bus varient. Fishy targets townie X with "pro town action". Mafia targets townie X with roleblock. driver targets townie X and RC (decent ammount read as scummy). RC gets visitors, farside sees fishy target RC and RC gets roleblocked.Shotty to the Body wrote:I doubt Fishy is lying after reviewing his claim.
Seriously people, let fishy deliver what he says he has coming. We lynch him after that, or after he takes too much time.
Unvote now, please-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Today, yes. Now, no.charter wrote:No. Fishy dies now.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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I already accomplished my plan. Think of this as a bonus mission.DrippingGoofball wrote:
That's your so-called "plan?"LlamaFluff wrote:Seriously people, let fishy deliver what he says he has coming.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Stop trying to throw dirt on the town alignment copZorblag wrote:Do you really know that Fishythefish isn't town because you're in a non-town faction with him perhaps? I'm not sure why you'd out him like you did but at least it would fit the rest of your behavior better.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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I buy it. He wasnt in serious danger of being lynched unless he thought I was a cop with a guilty. Even if he was convinced that fishy wasnt town, thats not a move scum will take.Zorblag wrote:@LlamaFluff, are you saying that you think the answers he gave (or, rather failed to give as he still hasn't said why he didn't vote for Fishythefish) strike you as true? I don't think I'm willing to accept that just yet.
-Zorblag R`Lyeh
The play reads complete newbie-PR.
Also if fishy is telling the truth (which I still am super sure he is) chrono cant be scum with him. This leaves it being a guess or an anti-town rolecop. No reason for anti-town to claim kill magnet role, so he is regular town.
What do you think he is any why?-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Pretty low. Either way neither of them are lying about what happened during the night.Zorblag wrote:@LlamaFluff, do me a favor and let me know what you think the chances of farside22 and RedCoyote being on a non-town faction together are. I've just had paranoia kick in.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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But... but thats motivation to lynch townies...popsofctown wrote:Fishy and all his undersea friends do not require townies to die, even if he lied and his point conditions give him bonus points for lynching townies.
Actually im just going to say its just a high ammount of "other" on his wagon. Especially if there is a 'other v other v other' subgame going on here.I'm gonna apply some super Bayes' theorem (aka watching for people moving towards their actual wincon) and say that everyone on Fishy's wagon is super scummy.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Eliminating obviously town....Vote Count wrote:fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag
d3x, farside, RC, DDD, SC, GG, Troll
Eliminating prob tow...
d3x, RC (?), Troll
calculating....
##Vote: d3x
FoS: Troll
Im not voting fishy today. I am, beyond a shadow of a doubt, sure that he is what he has already claimed. Actions match up with driver, and what he is claiming matches up with the "non hostle" flip we have already seen. I believe he is "basically town" as well.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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farside22 wrote:Listen up people. He didn't say he did anything last night. That is withholding information. That is not town.
He went to Red Coyote and even if that is not his intended target he still did something last night that he is not telling people.
HOW IS THIS TOWN?Fishy wrote:I did visit someone last night. I doubt I'm going to claim who, because I've no intention of giving away what that action is. It's a protown action, but frankly my points rivals already know plenty about me.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Still, im not voting him. Will be floored if he flips anything but non-hostle other-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Absolutely (if you change scum-fish to other-fish). Look at what claims we havefarside22 wrote:Do you think Llama that scum fish got bus driven somewhere.
Fishy says he targeted player X with pro-town action
RC was targeted by fishy
RC was targeted by a roleblock
I would expect player X to get targeted by a scum roleblock. I can see player X to getting bussed with RC. Anti-town, especially other, has to be all over this wagon.
d3x is probably one of them-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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This also worksPlum wrote:DGB, I agree with you on Zorblag in general. I could dissect up a case, but the direct poking at Chronopie is something recent which rubbed me very wrong.##Vote: Zorblag. I'd endorse this wagon.
##unvote
##Vote Zorblag-
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