Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[d3x]

Holy shit, 9 pages in 1 1/2 days. Starting my read now.

[d3x]

OK. I've caught up completely. I doubt many will like the way this post goes down, but I honestly think it'll be the easiest way for me to get into this game.

Page1

Jack vs Parama
Goes to Parama

Jack vs DGB
Goes to DGB

Page2

Jack vs DGB
Goes to DGB {especially of Note- Jack25}

Jack vs everybody going after him
I side with everyone {though not particularly liking Nico or Fishy's entrance to the fight}

Page3

Of Note- Jack53 is a weak OMGUS imo

Jack vs Fish
Goes to Fish

Of Note- I didn't particularly like Parama64

Page4

VPB vs Parama
Goes to VPB

Of Note- Parama81 is stretching {all of the paraphrasings are longer than the actual quotes. /Does not like}

Page5

xvart vs everybody
Meh. No clear winner

UK vs VPB
Goes to VPB

Gamma vs Jack
Goes to Gamma

Page7

Llama vs xvart
Goes to Llama

Of Note- Parama169 {/Does not like}

Page8

Gamma vs Jack
Still Gamma

Page9

DGB vs Troll
Goes to DGB

Gamma vs Jack
Goes to Gamma

Page11

charter vs VPB
Goes to VPB

DDDP vs Nico
Goes to DDDP

Recent Thoughts

Uncomfortable with how fast the Phate Wagon sprung up.

In Conclusion:

##Vote:Jack

I'd also be comfortable with charter or xvart on the block atm.

[d3x]

I am definitely not voting for pops, mod.

...weird. This reaction just feels a little strong, imo.

d3x little blank vs blank doesn't make me feel all shiny on him. It says very little and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Is there any specific thing you don't like, or is it just the format? I agree that it's not optimal, but with so much happening in the game so fast, that post would've been freaking huge to fully flesh out. I'm more than willing to answer any question and give more in depth analysis of the individual 'fights'. Just please don't ask for them all at once or UK will shoot me in the face.

I have a town read on everyone on the xvart wagon EXCEPT for...
##Unvote
##Vote: Fishy

What read do you have on him? Not having a Town read does not equal having a Scum read.
I mostly ask because you haven't mentioned him before.

@Phate- I'm agreeing with RC here. The points are good, but the conclusion should be the other way. I don't get how your points equal Town.

Still, I would really like to hear your thoughts on specific things. This X vs Y thing just ain't doing it for me.

Like I said, just ask and I'm more than happy to go more in depth.

[d3x]

If you're allowed quote what he said, go for it.

I wouldn't recommend 'going for it' without asking the Mod permission first. The Rules don't specifically say that you can't quote a QT, but better safe than ModKilled.

[d3x]

If I've missed any direct questions, please let me know.

@Llama-

Can I get your top few scum reads with reasoning?

In no particular order

...
Jack- I don't like the 'Other' speculation. I don't like the early post restriction questioning. I don't like the go after Nico when Nico said his piece about the player list. I don't like the fact that he all but disappeared after the early heat started dissipating from him. I don't like his jump onto the Phate Wagon. I don't like his recent participation. I don't like the dodging of the QT discussion after he brought it up.
xvart- I don't buy the QT discussion. Gut. I like the recent case on him.
pops- I don't like the excuse for not posting sooner {pops- do you have

any

examples for the pm confirmation scenario you provided? I'll withdrawal this point if so.}. I don't like the meta defense for 'why he picked Town'. I don't like the multiple announced 'prod dodge' posts.I really don't like the recent Cobalt Vote.

@xvart-

can you explain your face off system to me? What is the person vs. person? Are these just simply arguments/discussions/etc. or town vs scum reads? What does "winning" mean? What does "winning" say about each person's alignment?

It was mainly a way for me to get my own thoughts in line and let everyone know where I stood on things. They were all major discussions/debates that had serious game relevance, imo. My 'goes to' section was more in line with my thoughts on who won the debate, not neccessarily direct Town/Scum reads.

@Parama-

bolded part implies having mod permission

Assuming for a second that he's telling the truth and he's Town {which I don't believe} we don't want a ModKill for something that can be easily/swiftly verified. On those lines, both Jack and the Mod have posted since the bombshell about the QT. I declare serious shenanigans. I'm not waiting for his 'answer' anymore.

@Mod

- Can a player quote what another player says in a QT directly related to this game?

[d3x]

@Mod

- Thank you.

@Jack- Make with the QT.

[d3x]

d3x has it in for me, but doesn't like reading.

Yeah, I never learned how. Point to where you explained your p364, plz.

[d3x]

Page 15, 11 up from the bottom.

As I'm sure you're aware, this redirects to the post where you introduce the QT, not your explanation of it. Perhaps I'm dense, but what are you driving at, Jack?

[d3x]

What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?

Then about 1/2 the players in the game asked you to clarify your statements and/or quote the applicable portion. You have yet to oblige.

[d3x]

I suggested in p369 that you clarify with the Mod to see if you can quote it directly.

[d3x]

Hmm... Chrono is not Voting Fishy, thus she did not get a Scum result in whatever investigation. I'll withhold my Fishy Vote for the moment.

[d3x]

Wait, wtf? I missed that unvote something fierce...

##Vote:Fishy

[d3x]

The original Vote for the Day from Chrono was on you. I missed the UnVote/Vote switch in the middle of the quick Votes.

[d3x]

Yeah, I'm also worried about extra time being given to Fishy. Need a reason? Day Rule 4.

4. Can the Mafia talk to each other during the Day? Yes!

[d3x]

Prod:Phate

plz.

[d3x]

##UnVote

I completely follow farside's line of thinking, but I gotta say I believe Fishy's Claim. It reads right and if the theory that there are a lot of Others out there {leaving fewer more powerful Scum and Town}, I'm not surrised we have a Bus Driver. Given it's selfserving what with the building Wagon, but it would appear Fishy loses out on the chance of gaining points by Claiming. That lends it credibility, imo.

Llama749- The Gambler's Fallacy again? While I agree with most of your reads there, why is charter obvTown?

Ellibereth776- Why is the xvart Wagon more likely to have Scum/Others than the Fishy Wagon?

@Jack776, 779, 790- What's with the sudden bout of Vote jumping? Also, why wait this long to put together a case on me? You've apparently found me scummy for a while, what makes now special? You have no new 'evidence' in your case. Is it because Llama started with a Vote on me? Also, how is the QT thing on you an easy mislynch? I asked you to give more details on an apparent lie that you threw out. You never followed up on it with anyting and continued dodging questions about it. And how is my 'player vs player' experiment not 'real analysis'? I offered to go into more detail for anyone who asked. No one asked. Thus my breakdown of Voting you was ultimately unquestioned.

@Jack806- Going ~24hrs without posting is Lurking now? Tell you what, I'm not going to post within every 24 hours, so don't bother asking. I've got work, family, and drinking to take up my time.

In other news... I'm holding my Vote for the moment, but it'll probably end up on Jack.

[d3x]

Ok, I just caught up in my other 2 games. I'll be working on this one later tonight as it'll take a

lot

more time.

[d3x]

ok, starting back on page 33. Sorry guys, this is going to be a biggun'. Also of note, I haven't read the thread before writing this, I'm typing as I read. Some of this stuff could very well be asked/answered by now.

@

Jack815

- No, no, no, I make no distinction between the 2, I don't see your point. I gave reads and stances combined into one. I wasn't about to go into a 9 page detailed breakdown {as I'm about to here} but gave analysis none-the-less. You don't like the way I did it? Oh, well. Don't say I didn't do it, though. btw, I'm still more than happy to give more detailed info on anything you'd like clarification on.

@

Troll822

- Assuming that we go along with the 'Fishy targets the PGO' plan, who would you suggest be our Lynch for the Day?

@

DDDP828

- Makes some really strong points, imo.

@

Fishy829

- Why would Scum need to RB you if you're not willing to do as the Town bids? Your position makes no sense to me. You're saying that Scum would RB you so you couldn't kill yourself on the PGO so that they could secure a misLynch on you the next Day? All of this instead of RBing a Cop? Wtf?

@

DGB830

- Maybe, maybe not. I don't see how we can truly know this without seeing the actual RolePM. Assuming your supposition is true, how would we differentiate between NonHostilePointGatheringOther and HostilePointGatheringOther?

@

Fishy836

- Please define AntiTown.

@

Shotty838

- +1

@

Fishy840

- There is proof that you

aren't

Town. How is this equal to the lack of evidence that Shotty is Town? You are not Town > No evidence that Shotty is/isn't Town {substitute any player slot with a Null Read}. A Cop not using his Investigation

is

AntiTown! It is hurting the Town's ability to catch Scum and fulfill it's WinCon.

@

Fishy853

- Are you going for Scum or nonTown? If given the choice, which would you Lynch and why?

@

Jack861

- I believe that DGB has said multiple times that Troll was complaining about the number of PRs. How are you missing that?

@

DGB865

- Remember that teh Mods said if not a lot of people choose Town, their powers will be immense. IF Fishy's suggestion that there are at least 6 NonTownPointGatheringOthers out here, I'm seeing a lot of powerful Town Roles as a high probablity.

@

Nico867

- Yes there is reason to think you're Scum/Other due to the Wagon's composition. If xvart had flipped Scum, then that would be a more acceptible statement. He did not, thus Scum wanted him dead.

@

Jack874

- Your point being?

This is starting to get unweildy and I'm getting pretty damn sleepy. I'll pick up tomorrow.

[d3x]

It's only useless/IIoA if people don't answer the questions.

Any plans on actually telling us who's scum?

Sure. Once I'm fully caught up.

[d3x]

UnVote
##Vote:Fishythefish

You've been arguing that you're not Town, but not AntiTown. I say that your stance here

is

AntiTown. An SK is a direct threat to the Town and thus you're putting your own point scoring agenda above the best interests of the Town.

[d3x]

And SK hunting is better than mafia lynching WHY?

It isn't and I didn't say that it was.

Fishy said that his goals are not Town, but aligned with Town. If his position is that Lynching NonHostile Others is his priority over Hostile Others, he's either Lying Scum or AntiTown. Hostile Others are by definition AntiTown and he's more inclined to let them live and go after NonHostile Town, which he claims are proTown.

[d3x]

So you go on a tirade on "you won't vote for Zorblag ur antitown". Right-o.
But you're ALSO not voting Zorblag, and you never have.

Incorrect. It has nothing to do with Troll {you guys are talking about him like he's actually Confirmed SK}. It has to do with Fishy saying that he'd go after NonHostile Others before Hostile Others and somehow trying to spin that as ProTown.

[d3x]

Fishy said that his goals are not Town, but aligned with Town. If his position is that Lynching NonHostile Others is his priority over Hostile Others, he's either Lying Scum or AntiTown. Hostile Others are by definition AntiTown and he's more inclined to let them live and go after NonHostile Town, which he claims are proTown.

[d3x]

^^aka- We have a 100% Confirmed NonTown Role that has been tracked to a Claimed RB. He's saying that his intentions are proTown, but that is not true if he'd rather go after NonHostile Others {as he Claims he is} over Hostile Others.

[d3x]

/sigh

There was a debate earlier today about whether we could trust Fishy's intentions or not. If I'm alone here in thinking that he just flat out told us that we can't trust his intentions, then so be it. Lying Scum or AntiTown. My Vote stands.

[d3x]

d3x and pops- Who would you rather lynch between Nico and Troll?

If it came to deadline, I'd probably go for a Nico Wagon. Either would be preferable to a No Lynch, imo.

[d3x]

So I just looked at the Vote Count and while I'd rather get a Nico Lynch, there are more players on his Wagon that I think are Scum/AntiTown than Troll's. I still like Nico for Scum more than Troll, however.

[d3x]

Alright, I'll give. I'm part of the Executive, aka NonHostile Other. I can confirm that the vast majority of Fishy's RoleClaim is legit as my Role is

very

similar. I'm mostly Claiming due to the fact that my partner{s} seem{s} to have forgotten that we can Day Talk and I have no real other way of communicating this with them/him/her/it. I'm the one that Targetted Plum last night with our Transmitted Weak Watcher {although the intended target I had submitted was Chrono}. That's about all I am willing to out at the moment, but with another ability I've just sent in, I'll have more info on whether or not Fishy's proTown NonHostile Other or not. I'll make with the details as soon as I hear back from the Mod. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll let you know if I'm willing to answer them yet.

[d3x]

d3x claims to have attempted a transmission to Chrono, which is interesting as I did so successfully.

Technically, Plum would've gotten/lost us points as she received the info.

if I were to tell you at the beginning of day 2 you (very likely) had more than 0 points, would you be able to confirm someone as town/scum? What if I told you it was less than 0?

This would interest me greatly. I did not use any abilities that would've gained or lost points for my faction {neither did my partner{s}, to my knowledge}. We targeted no one N1 and there was no Lynch D1.

I score boarded today.

That's what I'm waiting on from the Mod. I did this as well.

[d3x]

@d3x: you say you don't know if your partner(s) targetted anyone N1. This is a very important point; could you check with (t)he(m), or the mod if that's possible?

Considering I was able to use the Weak Watcher last night, I'm 100% sure that my teammate{s} did not use a communal ability. I'll check to see if abilities were used aside from those I have been made aware of, but as I said, my partner{s} has{ve} forgotten that we have the ability to Day Talk.

Further, considering there was no Lynch D1, there is no way that my faction could've scored/lost any points D1/D2. Only last night and yesterday did my side have the potential of gaining/losing points by our own merit. The only possibility for us to have gained points is through something not of our own doing. I think it's time you shared your findings, Fishy.

[d3x]

EBWOP: Further, considering there was no Lynch D1, there is no way that my faction could've scored/lost any points D1/D2 {aside from abilities unknown to me}.

[d3x]

@pops- Just to keep things straight.

xvart the Speaker of the House part of the Legislature

Xvart was part of my faction.

I'm part of the Executive

We are not Claiming the same branch of gov't.

[d3x]

Well, considering I'm about to die {in all probability} and I still have a WinCon to accomplish, I don't think I'm going to 'out' my partner{s}. It is up to them/him/her/it if they'd like to be known.

Why aren't you asking Shotty or Fishy who their partners are, pops?

[d3x]

That about sums it up for me, Chrono. My point mechanics are tied to my abilities {1st used last night}, survival/outcome, and Lynching. As no Lynching occurred and we did not use an ability, the Executive did not change our point standings by the start of D2.

[d3x]

@Troll- I'm good with that. I received my list earlier in the day, but haven't been able to really look at it in depth. It verifies that there are only 3 Point scoring groups in the game {the 3 mentioned already} and gives the rankings, not the actual point totals or breakdowns.

With the Voting breakdown, I can pretty much confirm that Fishy's group is proTown as he said {and in all probability Shotty's as well}. Judicial is tied with Legislative for 2nd so if they would've gained points from a Townie Lynch, they would be higher or at least tied with us, the Executive. With Fishy being on the TownWagon yesterday, they would've lost points at least once {multiple times if they were both/all on the Wagon}. As xvart had no opportunity to lose points through Wagons and Shotty wasn't on Nico's MisLynch; this leads me to believe that they targetted Scum {losing points with their Night Action}.

I can also pretty much confirm Plum is nonScum {unless the other 2 Branches lost a bunch more points than I suspect}. We would've lost points if she'd been Scum. There is a slight possibility that she's Other due to the lack of point totals on the Scoreboard.

@Fishy&Shotty- Have you used multiple point gathering abilities? This is

very

important to determining whether or not DGB {Shotty's Claimed target} is Scum.

In crunching the numbers, I don't see how DGB could be Town. I'm coming up with even numbers at no points or negative points for the tie between the Branches. If they're both at negative, I believe Fishy's partner wasn't on the Wagon and they targetted Other. If they're at 0, I believe they both were on the Wagon but targetted Town. With Shotty's case, he lost no points for the Wagon, so he's at either negative by targetting Scum or 0 for targetting Other. Either way, Shotty Claims to have targetted DGB and I can't see a way that she's Town with this breakdown.

Without more info from the other Branches, I'm pretty much stopped there on speculation/data.

Regarding speculation of my partner{s}, I'll be leaving the ultimate decision up to him/her/it/them, but I will say that I'm not against speculation and you guys figuring out who my partner{s} is/are. This way, there's no Claim and we would still be able to win some points if he/she/it/they live to End Game {I've still gotta' try for my WinCon afterall }.

[d3x]

@Fishy- Unless I received points from some outside source, I can guarantee that I only have a single point gaining opportunity. That means that I'm at either 0 or a single bump above. With you two tied for second, that puts you at negative or 0.

What was the running at the beginning of D2? Although I was curious, my main interest was in finding out if Shotty had used multiple abilities.

[d3x]

Yes I do get points for Lynching Scum. And assuming there's no evidence to the contrary, yes I would want to Lynch DGB.

[d3x]

D3x, why is DGB scum? I didn't understand how it worked when I read your explanation.

This is what I crunched. The scoreboard stands at executive in 1st, the other 2 tied at 2nd.

1-

My points

As we were not on the misLynch, we have only had one opportunity to change our point value.
If Plum is Other, we're at 0
If Plum is Town, we're at 2

2-

Fishy's points

Considering Fishy was on the misLynch {and it's unknown if the partner was or not} -1
If Chrono is Town, that'd be +2
If Chrono is Scum, that'd be -1
If Chrono is Other, that'd be 0
So the data we have readily available says Fishy is at +1, 0, -1, or -2

3-

Shotty's points

Considering xvart died before able to change the score, we have full data.
Shotty wasn't on the misLynch, so that's 0 points
If DGB is Town, he'd have 2 {tied with me, which he's not}
If DGB is Other, he'd have 0
If DGB is Scum, he'd have -1

My conclusion is that with this data and assuming there are no outside forces to change the points, DGB cannot be Town.

That's why I wanted to know if either Fishy or Shotty {especially Shotty}had used other point gaining abilities.

I'm not saying it's flawless, but it's the conclusion I've come to.

-------------------------------

I am a neutral statistician

And there it is! Whether she's telling the truth about her actual Role {I believe she's Neutral over Scum}, that proves that Shotty is at 0 points and Chrono is Town... I think...

-------------------------------

I'm ok with a MassClaim. If all of the Branch Others Claim truthfully, noone will be at a disadvantage to missing out on End Game points. If they FakeClaim, they'll pry get killed along the way.

--------------------------------

##Vote:charter

RC's Claim is good enough for me.

[d3x]

3way Other tie ftl? *sadface*

What ruined this game is that the others had all the power to help the town as they moved towards their wincon, but they all just volunteered to get mowed down.

I wouldn't say that this is entirely accurate. We didn't know that Zorblag got multiple shots. With 3 of 6 outted Government types, it would take 3 Days before we were all gone and that still left 2 unknowns. And with 1 of each faction comparing notes openly, we were able to figure out that DGB was nonTown at best.

GG all.