Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

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/confirmatory!

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Vote: Socrates

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For lynching me in PYP II totally unfairly. (I don't remember if it was you who lead the lynch, but you were scum, which is good enough.)

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Yeah, I vaguely remember that...

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Does the name Joey mean anything to you?

Joey K?

I actually know someone who's name is Joey K, but I

know

that he doesn't play mafia...

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Actually, anyone think we should do something more sophisticated than just scrambling to see who gets the item?

If we all agree on one player to get the item (say, someone who is a big question mark to the town) then we get a useful tool for determining that persons alignment.

Say we give someone a gun and then tell them to shoot someone else. We can confirm a townie and get a bonus lynch from that, and if they can't, we have a likely scum on our hands. (yea yea, watch out for a role blocker, I know.)

This is the only problem:

If you want to go for the item, type

Grab: ITEMNAME

. 25% of the player-list can do this, and they will be eligible to receive the item. Those names will be randomized on random.org, and one of the people on the list will receive the item.

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I should be clearer:

25% of the player-list can do this[...]

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Vote: Pome

you abandoned me in Ice and Fire... HOW COULD YOU?!?! I THOUGHT OUR SCUM TEAM MEANT SOMETHING TO YOU!!!

..alright... i've always wanted to do that xD

Well, I thought that you had abandoned me a couple of times, but apparently you always told CSL that you were busy through AIM... that was a weird game.

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- 7 posts, hardly any content

Okay, I'm very busy tonight, and do not have time to post (or read the entire thread), so I will make sure to get something up tomorrow.

Also, I have never played L4D, and I have no knowledge of how it works.

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This post is up until Pgae 7, because I don't have time for more right now:

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I can think of a few reasons why DN would ask about the VT pm, only one marks him as scum.

Any reason why you can't list them? I dom't see any potential harm, but if you doo, explain why, please.

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Bandwagoning a person you are "undecided" about and want to "hear out"?

I would bear in mind that since Ifrinn is a hydra, sometimes "they" might contradict each other a bit, and I'm preoared for that. (Don't take this to say that i will let them contradict, backpedal, etc. to get out of a lynch, or in am extreme situation. I'm not going to overlook Ifrinn, just look at it with this perspective.)

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More importantly, how are we going to get Amished and Anon to prove that they actually thought something was scummy about Ifrinn? As opposed to just going "Oh yeah that's what I meant" when you eventually do post?.

That is very important, and it can't be proved, which is the problem. That's why I hate it when people say "Well, XXX did something scumm, but I can't say what it is.... Vote: XXX", because a few people always end up saying "Oh yeah, I see it to... but it's still a secret. Vote: XXX."

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[quote="Socrates"}Right now I think we should just let deathnote have the item.[/quote]

It doesn't work like that- Socrates, lern2read

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What part of "if an item appears, wait and let's discuss this?" is so hard to understand?

ERight, so I think that this makes sense. The only problem is that Scum have the motive to grab the item ASAP, because they want to destroy, so letting it sit around waiting probably won't actually work in practice.

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[@Bob}Smells like a scum maneuver to pretend you are being cool about it while you are in realness, worried about it. Not townieworried. Scumworried.

An RVS wagon on me doesn't worry me whether I'm town or scum, because I know that people will realize that that's just it- Random. So no.
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Unvote

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I actually agree that the person shouldn't claim, but I think that maybe collectively we should choose a target for whoever has it, if we know what it does. Obviously there's a strong chance that the player won't listen, but I don't think that it does any harm.

Also, hi Tar!

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I actually agree that the person shouldn't claim, but I think that maybe collectively we should choose a target for whoever has it, if we know what it does. Obviously there's a strong chance that the player won't listen, but I don't think that it does any harm.

Also, hi Tar!

Cute: the only way we find out what it does is to have whoever gets it tell us.

I see, but I don't think that it has to be so hard to figure out. Though I don't know theme flavor, some people do. I see what you're saying, but I think it might be possible to work around. If not, then my plan is fatally flawed, and you win.

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There's too many potential flavour interpretations of Boomer Bile for it to be useful in that sense. It could be a vig, a roleblock, a redirect, a bus drive, a post restriction (although I don't see how that would be a pro-Town use), an investigation (enemies hit by Boomer Bile show up with purple outlines, whereas teammates cannot be hit by the Bile)...

I don't think your plan will work for the Boomer Bile Pome. It might work for different items with a more obvious use (e.g. shotgun) but there's too many flavour interpretations for this one.

Fair, I agree. Though It's likely that boomer bile doesn't kill, because shotgun would probably do that. Nor do I think that it works as a doctor protesction, because that is most likely covered by medkit. It's hard to guess, but we can use the process of elimination a bit, I think.

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BV, looking at this page, I see that have three posts, two of which regarding a lurker, all three of them one-loners void of scumhunting.

So I iso'd you. I found 18 post (which I willingly admtt is larger than the number of posts I have). But most of your posts are one-liners, and the ones that aren't are only a bit longer. And I mostly find comments on the game, but hardly any real scumhunting. You voted three times in your first four posts, twice for Bob, and once for Deathnote because he requested a sample Role PM (now, I don't mind that vote, but you didn't five

any

explanayion for your vote, only jumping on a popular bandwagon).

Unvote; Vote: bv310

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Please respond in your next post.

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What would you like from me? I can give you my Player-by-player reads, I can do a page by page, or I might just iso someone and see what comes up.

I'd probably be happy with any of those, if you really put in the effort and did some scumhunting.

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@thatguy- At the bottom of the page, it says display post (from):
So if you choose a specific player, rather than all users, you will only see the posts that that player has made in-game. It's called someone's iso, or iso'ing someone (some people write it without the apostrophe) because you are viewing one person's posts in isolation.

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Been busy recently, and internet was down for a couple days- will post decently tomorrow.

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To be fair Dizzy, Socrates plan/idea produced no early town benifit. Day 3, or day 2 if we get more item drops, and I can see it doing some good.
Though if we get a third drop today it becomes more plausable.

Yes, but to me it seems like the plan was potentially more beneficial for scum.

I would like to note that I'm far behind, and I need to catchup. I've been busy lately.

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Weekly V/LA

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My first scumspect is deathnote. So far his posts have been generally unhelpful, though I have not finished reading, andi do not like how he asked for a sample role pm.
I eould vote him but can't bold on this thing.

Is your would-be 'vote' on Deathnote at all becfause he requested a sample town Role PM, or is it simply because of the quality of his posts? I disagree with those who say that it was scummy to request the sample Role PM. What's your opinion on that matter?

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Mods: CryMeARiver is on probation (for an out-of-game communication violation). Find a new replacement.

CMAR: Game mods do not overrule site bans. Stop posting here.

Well that certainly clarified things.

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I have stated multiple times, the reasons I am not giving any cases is because they have mostly been laid out by other people. Socrates has been pointed out as being scummy multiple times due to the set-up speculation and trying to get an item grabbing order set-up BEFORE Ifrinn had even said anything. I just asked one of my suspects for a case, that person being DN, after they vote without giving a reason, on top of them asking in the thread for a sample pm, in addition to refusing to answer a question from YOU Starbuck and one from Charlie. As for bv, he is quickly climbing my scum ladder due to his continued absence, even though people have posed questions to him and said they were suspicious of him. As for Charlie, he went and goes "I read my post to make sure it didn't sound scummy". Why does a townie need to worry about that. If you look too town, you are suspicious, should your posts should sound just a little scummy. As to Dizzy, when I said I was suspicious of her, that was when I hadn't fully reread the topic. After going back and rereading, I see she has scumhunted, and posted a lot more content, so I am going to remove my suspicion. There, happy Starbuck?

This post is slightly better than your earlier ones, but if you have time to type up something like this, why can't you take a bit more time and make/explain a good case on your top suspect?

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Wait, I'm being targeted for something that bv has also done and he gets a free pass? He sits there, gives a case amounting to saying his vote was a pressure vote, then comments that whenever he sees something scummy that DN has done, it's already under discussion, but he doesn't add to said discussion? At least Dizzy has given an excuse for not contributing to discussion, bv hasn't given one. He;s one of my suspects, though admittedly not one of my strongest, but since it seems everyone is giving DN and Socrates a free pass, and seems intent on lynching me, y'all will find some way to make this vote paint me scummier, but

vote: bv

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I agree that bv isn't doing much, but that's no excuse. Trying to move the negative attention to a different player isn't good. So I'll say that I agree with your vote, but that doens't change my stance on you. Look at it this way: Of you're doing the same thing as bv, and you think that bv is scummy, why aren't you scummy too (if you admit to doing the same thing)?

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Weekly V/LA.

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I grabbed because I happened to be online to see them up for grabs. I didn't read the rules until after, which leads me to believe that I can only grab one a day. Oh, and the PBP will be up tomorrow. If it isn't, then replace me. Sorry about the lack of contributing, I'm neck deep in finals and term papers.

You only read the (game-specific) rules once you attempted to grab two items? Why didn't you read them earlier (as in, at the beginning of the game)?

Scum obviously have motovation to grab as many items as they can, in order to destroy them. Town doesn't have that motivation. Bv is scummy.

I'm up for a bv lynch. I'll vote once I check the most recent votecount.

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Oh look, I was already voting bv. Lovely.

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Pom, who are your top three suspects? Why? How plausible do think it is that they are paired together?

bv, jmj, and cramonic.

D1 I don't usually speculate about pairs much though- I just try to look for scummy people, and see how pairing works after a flip or two.

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Sorry 'bout that, dram.

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Because he's scum. It's fairly simple.

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And why can't scum claim that? They got it, then destroyed it.

The way that he attempted to grab an item once he already had one seems much more likely to come from a mafioso, because a scumbag can destroy multiple things at night, whilst a townie can only use one at a time. a scumbag has the motive to go for a second item; a townie does not.

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And why can't scum claim that? They got it, then destroyed it.

The way that he attempted to grab an item once he already had one seems much more likely to come from a mafioso, because a scumbag can destroy multiple things at night, whilst a townie can only use one at a time. a scumbag has the motive to go for a second item; a townie does not.

Explain your opinions on lynching claimed power roles.

I don't like it. And even though I don't like bv's play and stuff, that's what makes me a bit unsure. And since I won't be on around deadline (Passover, but I'll get to that later), I will switch my vote to jmj now, because I probably won't have much time later today.

Unvote; Vote: jmj

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Mod, and everyone else: I will be V/LA this afternoon through Wednesday night due to Passover. Yes, I will miss deadline, though it's not ideal.

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K, hi everyone, I'm back. What have I missed?

*readup*

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By the by, Glrok, nice work in getting Socrates to make your case against Amished for you. Real smooth.

That would actually make sense if I hadn't already made multiple valid points against Amished.

I'll admit that, rereading your posts, my initial impression that you had barely put forward a case was not entirely accurate. I still find Socrates' last post more convincing than what you've said though.

How about you move over then?

If you, Bob, Izzy, Jmj, and Pom all move now we can get a lynch.

I will consider it- this is not the Amished that I'm used to. But I doubt that it will happen with deadline in a few hours... Let me think about it more, I'll be back.

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Why would I bother to provoke you as scum?

Theoretically, if you are scum and Bob is town, you're trying to push me towards his wagon because you'd rather see a mislynch than a town lynch.

Personally, I'd rather see a scum lynch than either.

What exactly is your opinion of Amished to this point? I want every positive and negative you can think of.

If I would rather see a mislynch than no lynch, why did I not stick to the jmj lynch? It would be much easier for me as scum to start to badger people to vote for him on grounds of avoiding a no lynch than it would be bob.

Regarding Amished, I haven't really thought about him. I think I liked him early on, but I think that was colored by the fact that I really really wanted support for the Ifrinn wagon.

As I reflect on his play off of the top of my head:

Minus:
- I feel that he has been lurking.
-more specifically, he hasn't posted since the Jmj claim, which fits the profile of scum hoping that the inertia of the wagon plus the threat of deadline will be able to carry it through to a lynch without him having to push it more.
- I think his play around the Ifrinn wagon reeks of scum buddy. He rides it at the beginning when I was playing coy about it and it was unlikely to get much steam, but then later when it DOES start to gain steam, he jumps off and starts to attack a person who was on the wagon. But this isn't relevant until I see Ifrinn's alignment.
- I HATE his attack on thatguy in general. Its a classic beating up on a weak player who doesn't have his thoughts very organized.

I haven't really seen anything in the way of specific town tells from Amished.

So yea, I would be perfectly fine with an Amished lynch. I have been considering for the past 15 minutes whether or not I should move though. Amished is more likely scum than Bob, but I don't really have a town read on Bob and would prefer his lynch to a no-lynch. I am worried that moving my vote would further fracture the votes among the town and drastically increase the chance of a no-lynch occuring.

Bleh...

Fuck it.

unvote, vote: Amished

I'll be around at deadline to move it back if I have to.

Isoing Amished, I find a lot of words, but I'm disappointed. I'm used to an active scumhunting Amished, but I don't find it. This is what I do find:

That he makes quite a few short, basically useless posts.

His case on thatguy is weak. I agree with Socrates that the way he jumps off whan the wagon is serious, and finds thatguy suspicios is scummy.

He votes jmj. I'm also voting jmj, and I don't have a problem with this vote.

He goes into a long defense on me out of nowhere. He doesn't explain his town read on me, and seems like he's trying to pass the defense off as scumhunting. He says that he has a town read on me, but has never explained it, or mentioned it before. It comes out of nowhere.

Don't like him, and the wagon on him might lead to a lynch in the few hours until deadline- I'll go for it. But if deadline is really close and nothing is happening, I'm going to switch back.

Unvote; Vote: Amished

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No Lynch D1 is the worst thing that could possibly happen.

Yes. The way that Starbuck is accusing people of derailing a wagon shortly before deadline- no. Another wagon was being pushed, and Amished has as many votes as jmj did, IIRC.

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*Dizzy too, forgot about her.

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Oh lovely, the thread is unlocked. Sadly I am

V/LA from now until Wednesday morning

, probably. Passover.

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Hi, back. Read up and post tomorrow. Thanks Starbuck for rememebering my V/LA.

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I'm gonna go WIFOM-ish here for a second, but I play with Amished in games often. I don't think he would set himself up by killing the two people who suspected him most. Someone could be trying to set up their case. That's one theory.

Meta, you're saying?

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I think DocPotter is suspicious.

I'm interested in a name claim as I believe it would be more helpful to town than to scum. For the record, Socrates was Keith and he as a jack of all trades fits perfectly into the L4D theme. I mean he survived drowning, traffic accidents and lawnmower blades just to name a few! I'm going to miss him most.

Sad, now Louis shall never get his pills.

almightybob, what do you think?

...and why would we want to out PRs right now?

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Starbuck, setting up players rarely works.

In my experience, scum generally get away with killing those who attack them. And Glrok and Socrates are both known as good players, so I would totally expect Amished to kill Glrok or Socrates.

Now that I know Glrok is town, I'm quite willing to listen to him.

Vote: Amished

I agree with this. Glork and Socrates were the two people who were most against Amished. And the WIFOM argument goes around in circles. I didn't like Amished on D1, and I don't like him now on D2. The NKs were a just a bonus.

Vote: Amished

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@Starbuck, thatguy, bv310: What do you think of me?

Nothing too much to raise an eyebrow at. In fact, I'd say you're actively scumhunting, so I believe you to be town right now.

And no, I didn't get any notification about the dual pistols.

Could you elaborate on why you find Amished to be town, please?

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BTW: what function *other* than shooting do you think pistols have? Seriously.

What function *other* than shooting do you think a shotgun has? I'm not going to speculate on the set-up at this point in time.

Besides, if I were scum wouldn't I be worried about it and go after somebody who had a chance to have it? ... I really just wanna run head first into a wall here.

Glrok went after a Flashlight. Why would you kill one of the people who went after the Dual Pistols instead? That'd just be bad play, considering Glrok is a more dangerous player.

Additionally, if scum think that a weak player received the pistol, they might not kill him simply because he could provide a few extra kills on townies.

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Dramonic makes no sense, really, with his vote and opinion regarding Starbuck and her defense of Amished. Starbuck sums it up well in 773.

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Oh, I know you don't, Star; but Pom brought it up now too.

The NKs were a just a bonus.

(note the plural)

If I understand you correctly, then let me explain myself: Either NK would fit with Amished scum.

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I can not stress enough how BADLY this game needs a wagon going right now. People need to start voting dram or thatguy now, or give some very good reasons as to why they are not voting.

We all saw good and well what stalling does to a game, it leads to massive clusterfucks and deadline no lynches. That isnt happening twice. Start something

If this is how you feel, why don't you attempt to start a BW with your own vote and voice? If you feel that something needs to be done, why don't you spur it?

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Weekly V/LA.

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I just skimmed up to the current thing and I followed pretty much everything Dizzy said until this part

Socrates is easy.

There are a number of Socrates posts that indicate he may have had a power role that he turned out to have

, which a scum team could pick up on in order to decide he is a good kill. On the other hand, he was the first person to jump to the Amished wagon that prevented a lynch yesterday, which I assume would have attracted a Vig's attention attention. I know if I had vig powers,

I'd have probably killed Socrates last night.

Ok, this rubs be wrong for two reasons: you'd vig somebody that you thought hinted at a power role; and isn't the Soc kill getting mobbed/mauled or something? That doesn't sound like a vig at all. Kill flavor is one of the easiest things to keep from a video game to a MS game. Hopefully I can catch up more.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Based on what was known by the point we no lynched yesterday, I absolutely would have vigged Socrates. He was playing scummily, prevented us from lynching yesterday, and the available information with regards the set-up lead me to conclude that any possible hints of his having a power role were simply a set-up for a future fake-claim.

No. The Amished wagon had as many players at the end of the day as did the jmj wagon had earlier. I would never have vigged Socrates- he was obviously pro-town (looking) if he could convince many players to join a wagon like that.

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Way too many non-voters. They need to vote and give reasoning ASAP, and by ASAP I mean in their next post.

Yes, I agree with this.

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Grab: Shotgun

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If thatguy has reached L-2, and is convinced a name claim will clear him, now seems like a good time for thatguy to claim.

Yes. Especially since I'd consider voting him for that point alone.

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@Mod- I need to request replacement.

I'm far behind, and have very little idea of what's going on in this game. And I have a lot of schoolwork these days, so this game is getting pushed to the back. I'm sorry.

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@Mod- I need to request replacement.

I'm far behind, and have very little idea of what's going on in this game. And I have a lot of schoolwork these days, so this game is getting pushed to the back. I'm sorry.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME. WTF WITH THE REPLACEMENTS THIS GAME.