Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Pomegranate]

Hi.

Vote Jahudo

.

[Pomegranate]

I can work with that.

[Pomegranate]

Hey-o.

Vote: Pomegranate

Pomegranates suck.

Lynch all Liars!

Unvote; Vote:NickF227

.

[Pomegranate]

Obviously Porochaz/Dybeck/Jahudo/Seraphim are all anteater scum.

We must be the ants!

[Pomegranate]

I have a weekly V/LA from Friday evening until Saturday evening/night. It will go into effect every week around this time.

[Pomegranate]

interesting....richard, why do you think it is protown to lynch you? (yes it is sort of trick question)

I'm evidently the most anti-town player in the game, so you should just go ahead and lynch me. That's why.

125, 127 and this are fairly tantrum like. Please explain why, telling us all to vote for you when the very slightest bit of pressure is applied is not tantrum like at all.

Or are you just being a jerk?

To be honest, I'm just being a jerk.

Listen, if you want to be a jerk, do it somewhere else. Games are supposed to be fun, and everyone is supposed to play to win. Unless you're a jester, getting yourself lynched doesn't help you or whatever faction you're part of. Now, listen: Trying to get yourself lynched and calling yourself a jerk isn't a protown (or proscum, for that matter) gambit. It doesn't help, and only makes people really hate you. Got that? Now stop being an intentional jerk. Or replace out, if you really can't stand that.

I like what Seraphim has to say, also regarding Anon and DocPotter:

I don't want Richard lynched but I do want to see more votes on him. I'm not letting him get away with this 'gambit' bullshit unless he pulls out some analysis. I don't care if he's inexperienced or not, wallowing in self-pity does the town no favors. Under pressure, scum will often pull 'gambits' as a way to take pressure off themselves. Nope. Not gonna happen.

As for the lurker hunters...

Mod: please prod both Anon and DocPotter

...is a lot more productive than voting them. If they haven't posted yet, they may not even be watching the game and your pressure and main focus is doing nothing.

ABR, why would you want to wagon CKD?

[Pomegranate]

/prodded

Been busy recently, something will be up tonight.

[Pomegranate]

He flip-flopped from town to scum to not sure to scum to not sure to scum and then only voted under pressure.

Closer to this.

My cable went out last night, so I couldn't get a post done. Working on it now.

[Pomegranate]

Anon, if over-reacting and panicking to a vote(s) isn't scummy, what is a scummy reaction to votes?

It entirely depends on the way people express that reaction.

Ive seen townies, especially newbies, overreact and panick to a vote, which is prob not the case here since its more likely richard is angry with ckd triple vote. Ive seen scumbags play it cool and not slip until the last moment.

All alignments commit scumtells, the point is that you have to analyse first if its a very reliable scumtell, and second if there are other tells to fight or help the read. That is scumhunting.

So what would you consider a scummy reaction from Richard if not this?

--

Papa Zito is vig

Holy rolefishing, Batman!

Seriously, what possible benefit is there to announcing it? If he is, then now he's been outed. If he isn't, then odds are he'll be NK'd and we lose a valuable townie.

You seem to be assuming that he's town. No likey.

--

Do you disagree with my thought on what town tends to do?

Yes, town tends to push for reactions, thats pure scumhunting, but that doesnt mean that all people pushing for reactions are town.

"Pushing for reaction is pure scumhunting, but scum do it too." You make no sense.

--

Its not fence sitting. Its stating the truth. In a wagon, there are always two type of people: townies scumhunting and scumbags pretending to be townies scumhunting.

At this precise moment, Im trying to find out which one you belong to.

Isn't that the point of the game? How are you going about doing it?

--

I think Richard is town, but very whiny town.

He seems to be playing the newbie-scum stereotype quite fully.

I'm not sure yet. I'm leaning towards newbie-scum, but that's not enough to warrant a real wagon.

he seems slightly scummier after a quick iso-read.

I don't know what to call him now.

That dramatic a turnaround and AtE seems very much like scum trying to cry their way out.

Unvote
Vote: bv310

WTH- I didn't realize that he changed his mind this many times.

--

I find Espeonage to be lurking in plain site. Has anyone really noticed? All he says is that he'll read up on one thing or another, and then he disappears for a while.

--

Willing to vote for: BV, Richard, or Espeonage. After that, Anon.

Vote: RichardGHP

.

[Pomegranate]

Well that post was confusing.

Pom, you just wrote a post making 3 points against Anon, 2 against bv, and 1 against Espeonage. Ignoring that none of them are really original, you made 0 points against Richard and chose him for your vote. Why?

My post started from page 10 or so. I voted him mostly for what happened before then, i.e., reacting terribly to votes.

[Pomegranate]

Why does it seem like Pomegranate is just jumping on an easy wagon? Subsequent rereads takes Richard as more of a VI than scum...

I've played with him before, and he didn't act like this at all. Also, I'd say that bv is the most popular wagon right now.

[Pomegranate]

Why does it seem like Pomegranate is just jumping on an easy wagon? Subsequent rereads takes Richard as more of a VI than scum...

I've played with him before, and he didn't act like this at all. Also, I'd say that bv is the most popular wagon right now.

Richard wagon: seven votes.

bv310 wagon: five votes.

I'd support either if deadline hit but that's two weeks away. Also, looking back, I missed him(Richard) using meta to defend himself which is terrible...I still like my vote though.

Yes, I guess you're right with the numbers like that, but in recent posts more people have voted bv than Richard. More recent votes are on Richard.

[Pomegranate]

@Mod: This was posted in the Ban Announcement Thread on the 28th of February:

CryMeARiver and MrCrowley are banned from signing up for Mafia games for a month.

So I don't think that he can replace in for a few more days.

[Pomegranate]

It's just that something very similar to this happened in a different game I'm playing.

[Pomegranate]

Weekly V/LA.

[Pomegranate]

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. Some are lurking, some are posting a lot, but in the end it doesn't make a difference because scum can do either. So I'll just vote for whoever for now.

Why don't you care? A lot can be gleaned from the goings on of D1, and I don't see why you don't care.

[Pomegranate]

Do you have any weak reads? What's the best you've got?

[Pomegranate]

Do you have any weak reads? What's the best you've got?

BV for the reasons I mentioned.

What about this:

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me.

Isn't it better to lynch on a slight read than on nothing at all?

[Pomegranate]

Hate to say this, but

@Mod, and everyone else too: I will be V/LA from about now until Wednesday night because of Passover.

[Pomegranate]

/back

Post tonight

[Pomegranate]

1.)

I cannot help but feel soured when I look at the make-up of this bandwagon:

RichardGHP (7) -- Porochaz, Faraday, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate, Javert, boberz

Although I still do not think RichardGHP is playing anything like Mafia 107, I feel like I am associating myself with bad company.

2.)

Unvote: RichardGHP, Vote: Porochaz

. Porochaz, moreso than others, seems to be trying to ride this wagon out. I didn't really care for his original reason for voting RichardGHP, and he seems to just try to justify keeping his vote there in later posts.

Also, trying to shift my questions for him onto curiouskarmadog seems like an attempt to get me off of his back:

Javert, you are possibly correct however I don't view the explanation as something that would warrant a policy lynch, that just sounds like a difference of opinion within a game. Maybe ckd could shed some light on that subject?

My questions for whether an objective person would think curiouskarmadog was making a policy vote has nothing to do with what curiouskarmadog was thinking. What matters is more what somebody in RichardGHP's shoes would think, since you voted on RichardGHP's reaction that he thought he was being policy voted.

The one thing that I don't like about this is that you switch from on a wagon to critiquing a wagon in one post. Do you still find RichardGHP scummy or not? Are you getting off the wagon because you don't like the way that Poro is pushing it, or because you've changed your mind on Richard? Who else do you find scummy?

[Pomegranate]

With the lurking it seems clearer to me that it is Richard

and

BV. If only one was scum then the other would be desperate to post so the other was chosen.

Or they're both just really bad town and the scum are biding their time for a mislynch.

Do you really think this? If so, why are you voting bv?

[Pomegranate]

?

That last sentence really confused me.

[Pomegranate]

583 was referring to 580.

[Pomegranate]

Asking OJ if she doesn't see MME who has contributed next to nothing this game as scummy? If so why that is.
OJ's post implies that she doesn't see it scummy and I'm wondering on what planet that is MS how it is not scummy.

I understand now, and agree with the question.

[Pomegranate]

No I am not trying to help cover him up. If I were I would not create this convaluted idea and hope he picks it up.

Can one of you explain what is wrong with my argument please??? because I cannot see how he can be scum here. He said 'VT roles' how can that be possible and how could you believe that to be possible unless you had not been given a role that was only them???

I simply dont get why defending someone who is about to be lynched who you believe is safe is a bad thing. Yes if he turned out to be scum I can see why you would turn on me. But you cannot just assume we are partners.

You are making a real mistake here.

It seems to me that when bv says he's only gotten VT and mild PRs, he's saying that he also got one in this game. No, he doesn't say it straight out, but it seems fairly obvious from the way bv says it.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, I think you missed the point of what boberz was trying to say.

Reread. Thanks.

[Pomegranate]

No farside, you're right:

592-

Bv can I have a link to a scum game of yours please?

593-

I don't have one to show you, Faraday. I seem to be a magnet for VT roles.

604-

It wasn't a claim, it was an observation that in the last several games I've played (and been out in), I've had either VT or mild PR roles.

[Pomegranate]

The pace of the game has really slowed down. That makes me feel good about the bv wagon.

Why? Please explain how you feel about lynching him once he claimed PR.

--

Ok, with my super duper scumhunting in the first 5 pages technique (similar to the 5 point palm exploding heart technique) I will

Unvote
Vote: Seraphim

while also wanting to vote for dybeck.

Sera is obviously scum and it should be clear from just the first 5 pages. dybeck is in the same scum-boat rowing on another oar.

Welcome! Whether it's obvious or not, please explain what it is that you don't like about Seraphim and Dybeck.

--

Boberz, I agree with farside: If you think he's town, you shouldn't care about being tied to him.

If I make a comment that is meant to make someone else safe, and it ends up making him les safe and me suspicious of course I am going to react in the way I did.

I disagree with this.

[Pomegranate]

Freaking out, overreacting, losing control etc are not scum tells.

Yet they are the main reason the Richard wagon got its head of steam in the first place, if you cast your mind back. Do you disagree with the reasons why he was voted by several people early on?

...since he happens to be on the wagon...

[Pomegranate]

V/LA from now until Wednesday morning, probably- Passover.

[Pomegranate]

Been V/LA, now I'm back.

Tomorrow is deadline, and if I'm not mistaken, I'll be in school during deadline.

Crud.

Yeah. I plan to catch up tonight. I'm also considering hammering bv. I'd like to hear from some people on his wagon maybe, if possible.

Sorry aout my play this day. I realize that I haven't done much, partly due to Passover and stuff. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for me, posting wise.

[Pomegranate]

Basically:

I started a post, but got all disoriented. I saw a lot of players opting for my lynch, or bv's. Apparently there is a case on me, but I didn't see it yet.

And the deadline is tomorrow, and I probably will have about 10 minutes of internet access until then.

So I'm gonna hammer bv. It seems like the best choice to me definitely.

Unvote, Vote: bv310

.

[Pomegranate]

Welp, at least we managed to hit mafia D1.

Vote Pom

Not really liking the quickhammer; it gives me bussing vibes.

I wouldn't really call it a quickhammer; I mentioned that it was a consideration of mine previously that day (or the day before) I think. And deadline was approaching. So, no.

Let her check in under pressure.

I'm sitting here refusing to feel pressured, even though a third of the players alive are voting for me first thing I see D2. Thanks for trying though.

I have to say that I notice people saying that maybe I did it for townie point at the end of the day, when a bv lynch was inevitable. I'm happy that a scumbag is dead. But I'm sure that scum is on my wagon. A quick, easy wagon to ride from the very start of the day. And PZ is dead. What could be better? So I think that there is at least one scumbag on wagon, if not two, because it's very convenient. Right now I'm thinking Espeonage, because he was a suspect of mine from yesterday, and he just made a really terrible post, which doesn't help him:

I agree with the lynch of Pom at the moment.
I have been away and am under suspicion so if you have questions ask them.
Pretty sure that boberz is town after reading through that part of day 1.

Anyways, Vote: Pom

And I think boberz-scum being his buddy is plausible. He gives a town read without explanation (when it's not really good to give town reads anyway,) on someone who is being suspected atm. And he give one sentence about his vote. And it's just really scummy.

Vote: Espeonage

.

tl;dr: Espeonage is scum. Lynch him.

[Pomegranate]

Pom is lurking in plain sight which unlike inactive lurking is a major scumtell.

I would love to know how you feel that you are doing anything more than me, Espeonage. Yes, that was a question directed at you. You're jumping on a wagon without much of anything yourself. Ahh, hypocrasy at its best.

[Pomegranate]

Pom is lurking in plain sight which unlike inactive lurking is a major scumtell.

I would love to know how you feel that you are doing anything more than me, Espeonage. Yes, that was a question directed at you. You're jumping on a wagon without much of anything yourself. Ahh, hypocrasy at its best.

There is a difference between being away and active lurking.

Since you were away I can excuse what you

did

post as active lurking? It doesn't work that way around here, scumbag.

[Pomegranate]

Vote: Espeonage

.

tl;dr: Espeonage is scum. Lynch him.

Can you explain a little further?

Well, how about you read therest of the post other than the tl;dr?

--

I'm sitting here refusing to feel pressured, even though a third of the players alive are voting for me first thing I see D2. Thanks for trying though.

This is an odd thing to post.

Yeah, I guess. I think I just wanted to prove a point, but I don't recall what it was.

I would love to know how you feel that you are doing anything more than me, Espeonage. Yes, that was a question directed at you. You're jumping on a wagon without much of anything yourself. Ahh, hypocrasy at its best.

So you admit to lurking in plain sight?

Who else do you suspect?

Kind of. I know I played yesterday terribly- I fell behind, a small wagon built on me before deadline, and I never had a chance to catch up. I hammered scum instead. So, I guess I did lurk some, but it was inactive-lack-of-time lurking. I'm trying to stay on top of the game today.

I mainly suspect Espeonage. Also Nick, ABR, and maybe boberz.

I also have a few town reads, but I don't want to share them.

[Pomegranate]

Hey Ojanen, don't you want to know why Pom suspects me too?

Let me say that I don't suspect you much more than most people. But you frustrate me a lot- it's hard for me to work with players with your type of playstyle- I'm not used to it. It's hard for me to get a read on you. And the way that you're all excited to ride my wagon today- it seems like possibley excited scum ready to ride an easy town wagon.

Anon has asked me to claim, and Nick and Richard mentioned it in their posts. I would like to hear from more players though(, 'specially ones I have a good read on).

Working on explaianing my opinion on Espe now.

[Pomegranate]

Ojanen, do you find me scummy?

[Pomegranate]

Espeonage has made 38 posts this game. Let's look at them:

NOTE: This was

not

meant to be a PBPA. But I think it turned into one.

Espe starts off with a healthy dose of RVS (but I guess that we all did). Then he makes a couple of quick votes (9,10) that lack more than one line of reasoning, and agree's with MME that scum could hind behind the Richard wagon (11).

When questioned he expands on his most recent vote saying that it doesn't have content. What bothers me is that Espe hasn't provided much of anything yet hiself (12).

Then the weird PZ=vig comment (13). Okaaay. Espe's next post consist of nothing but a smiley (14), as a response to a comment about 12. I don't know how much content is packed into the smiley, but it doesn't seem like much.

He explains that 12 was a joke (15), with one other line devoted to useless semantics. He's now wasted three posts on the stupid comment.

Espe attacks someone's wording for the reason for his vote (16) which is stupid, because his wording is very similar.

A few useless posts about wagons (17, 18, 19), and how it's best to vote whichever of your suspects has the biggest wagon. Or at least I think that's what he's saying.

He decides to vote bv after rereading (20, 21), but doesn't explain more than "To many sus things here." This is fairly obvious wagon-jumping for wagon-jumping's sake on its own.

Explain's that he wasn't wagon jumping, but agreed with everyone on the wagon (23), but

he still doesn't say what that it

.

Announces that he was prodded, and that he's back (24, 25).

Tries to explain his reason for his previous vote (on Anon), saying that Anon "had no good reasoning" (26). Pot, kettle, etc.

Espe sets himself up to jump on the Richard wagon if necessary (28):

Esp, opinion on Richard?
bv, did you make a conscious decision to be more defined in your stances after you got wagoned?

His absence under pressure speaks to me that the case on him might hold a bit more water than it does on face value. However I am happy with my vote right now.

Says that Nick has to post more and that ABR hasn't posted much content (32, 33). Pot and kettle, yelling at each other AGAIN. Urggh.

Response to prod (34).

D2---

Espe conveniently decides that he liks my wagon in one line and votes me (35), despite having never mentioned me before in the game. How convenien; another wagon successfully hopped.

Espe's longest post of the game (36)! Sadly, the only concrete thing in this pile of garbage is one line saing tat I'm lurking, and that the rest of the case has been laid out and that he agrees with it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Espe jumped on the bv wagon with one line of reasoning.
He set himself up to jump on the richard wagon if necessary saying that the case might hold water. But he never explained why.
He jumped on my wagon despite not having suspected me, with one line of explanation. When pushed, he said that "the rest of the case has already been stated".

So,

#1: ESPE JUMPS WAGONS CONVENIENTLY WITHOUT EXPLAINING HIMSELF.

and

#2: ESPE LURKS (he's gone for days, then shows up saying 'ohai I was prodded any questions yeah I like all the wagons'.)

[Pomegranate]

Hey Ojanen, don't you want to know why Pom suspects me too?

Let me say that I don't suspect you much more than most people. But you frustrate me a lot- it's hard for me to work with players with your type of playstyle- I'm not used to it. It's hard for me to get a read on you. And the way that you're all excited to ride my wagon today- it seems like possibley excited scum ready to ride an easy town wagon.

Anon has asked me to claim, and Nick and Richard mentioned it in their posts. I would like to hear from more players though(, 'specially ones I have a good read on).

Working on explaianing my opinion on Espe now.

CLAIM.

You already gave

your

opinion on the matter. I'm waiting for one or two others, maybe.

[Pomegranate]

If I get to L-1, please at least give me a chance to claim, k?

[Pomegranate]

I am a hider. I have weak mode, which is normal hider, and strong mode, in which kills directed it me do not affect me. I hid with farside22 last night on strong mods, for fear of vig.

[Pomegranate]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

Strong Mode:
-Same as previously, but I don't die if a kill targets me. I used strong mode last night for fear of vig.

One thing about this role is that I can use it to confirm townies. If I'm let live (which I seriously doubt at this point), I can announce who I will hide with at night. If I don't die, then who I hid with is confirmed town If I die, (and I mentioned that I planned to use Strong Mode), then whoever I hid with is scum.

[Pomegranate]

I die.

[Pomegranate]

Also, I have one more very serious post to make before I die. So please hold off on hammering until late tonight, as I plan to post it by then. It should've posted a minute ago, but my computer froze up and it got erased or something.

[Pomegranate]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

Strong Mode:
-Same as previously, but I don't die if a kill targets me. I used strong mode last night for fear of vig.

One thing about this role is that I can use it to confirm townies. If I'm let live (which I seriously doubt at this point), I can announce who I will hide with at night. If I don't die, then who I hid with is confirmed town If I die, (and I mentioned that I planned to use Strong Mode), then whoever I hid with is scum.

Why did you "hide" behind me? So the only down fall if you are weak is if your targeted you will die?

I hid behind you because I had a town read on you, and I didn't want to hide with scum.

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

Yes- it even mentions in my Role PM that I can use it to confirm people (but it didn't say so straight out). The one thing is that You will also have to decide whether I hide in weak or strong mode, which

does

make a difference. If I hide with someone in weak mode and die, it;s possible that I was NKed, and not that I hid with scum.

[Pomegranate]

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

Actually scratch this suggestion. It doesn't work.

Oh. I made my post a bit earlier but didn't have a chance to post it.

[Pomegranate]

I see the case on Sando but I REALLY don't like Poms 'fake' claim.

Why?

Reading the thread now.

[Pomegranate]

You can go around declaring that your buddies are town when you survive the night and it just too perfect.

But then when I'd flip scum you'd suspect them more. And if I was tracked, I'd be proven scum. There are much more convenient and less obscure fakeclaims for me.

[Pomegranate]

Um, WTH?

Where did that come from?

[Pomegranate]

My Pom views:

Pom's vote here
Which calls out Anon and bv but votes for richard for what reason exactly?
Pom's reason's fleshed out here and how is this more scummy then bv exactly?
this is not true this in fact was when bv started getting the heat but richard still had more votes.
Pom following herebuddy and following
Pom buddying here

Based also on Pom's vote on richard I could see Pom/bv310 scum team even more now.

I called out bv because there was more about him to mention; I didn't like Richard's attitude to the game, or the way he was playing it, and especially his reaction to the votes on him, but there was less to explain, because it was fairly self-evident. (Well, in retrospect maybe it wasn't, but I saw it that way then.)

I was saying that recently, though Richard actually had more votes, switching to bv was fairly popular. I see how I was wrong about this, I guess.

I agreed with a question of yours. What was the problem? That's not really buddying- I found it scummy too, and all I said was that I agreed with the question.

And the last one? Definitely not buddying. You asked a question here:

I could have sworn this whole conversation in regards to bv was someone asking bv310 for meta as scum and him saying he doesn't have finished games as anything but VT or light PR's.

Anyone else miss that convo? Am I hearing voices?

So I answered it. That was it.

Is this your whole case? It seems like it's focused on my buddying up to you (which I don't feel I did). Also, to everyone else: You see that me saying that I chose to hide with farside made snse, as I had a town read and agreed with her on one or two things.

[Pomegranate]

I have never really settled into this game have I?
Ok I am happy with my vote. I don't think there is anyone else on the same level of scummy as Pom is at right now.

ABR raises a good point which only furthur cements my position on the matter.

Scummy as hell.

ABR brings up an extremely unlikely hypothetical situation that has no reason to believe is in the game. You're trying to rid a wagon with lame, lame reasons. How about you explain why you think I'm scum, why you give little credence to my claim, and why it is NOT beneficial to thetown to leave me alive for a few days in this situation.

[Pomegranate]

Why would you hide behind someone you think is obviously pro-town? You're apparently completely unafraid of a scum kill?

I don't know; I knew that there were many places for a scum kill, and I didn't know what they'd choose. So I went for someone pro-town.

It does seem pretty buddying to clear someone ot very clear considering according to your role yor life was in danger.

Lovely statement. Respond to my post.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, great, I'll believe me if uoi direct me to where. Quotes, links, post numbers, whatever, as long as I know where to see it in a specific post (or more than one).

[Pomegranate]

And why am I criticized for looking like I lurk when there's people like Amished who do it about the same as I do?

Why would you be off the hook for that? If you admit that it's bad enough to criticize Amished, why is it wrong to critcize you, if you're lurking the same as him?

[Pomegranate]

Maybe. But don't act like you should be off the hook.

[Pomegranate]

I dont like Pom tryin to attack someone for rolclaiming when basically they didnt. It doesnt make any sense, it proves Pom is reading the thread but demonstrating she is scraping the bottom of the barrel to find anything to do.

Yes, I am reading the thread, but obviously you aren't, because I never did any such thing. Dybeck criticized him for roleclaiming, while I criticized him for something else. Wrong answer, try again.

[Pomegranate]

Pom you said

Maybe. But don't act like you should be off the hook.

in response to a defence of an alledged roleclaim. Dont change hikstory. You were clinging to the coattails of something you would hope would stick.

I dont like dybeck either there, but you were the one who was worst there. So I was not wrong, so you try again.

No. Wrong again. You're the one changing things. I said that in response to this:

And its wrong to criticize me if you are not going to criticize everyone else who does it?

And though it's possible I'm mistaken, it seemed to me that that was in response to this post of mine:

And why am I criticized for looking like I lurk when there's people like Amished who do it about the same as I do?

Why would you be off the hook for that? If you admit that it's bad enough to criticize Amished, why is it wrong to critcize you, if you're lurking the same as him?

So even if Nick

was

talking about roleclaim, that's not what I was talking about. Yes, it's possible I made a mistake and referred to something incorrectly. But I didn't mean to agree with dybeck at all.

But I think it's obvious that you just can't read things right.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, I agree that it's best for Nick to clarify. But looking at the wording, it seems to match the post I had directed at him, aka 1079. Let me quote 1079 and 1080, so uou can see how it flows:

And why am I criticized for looking like I lurk when there's people like Amished who do it about the same as I do?

Why would you be off the hook for that? If you admit that it's bad enough to criticize Amished, why is it wrong to critcize you, if you're lurking the same as him?

And its wrong to criticize me if you are not going to criticize everyone else who does it?

[Pomegranate]

[Pomegranate]

I don't breadcrumb. Well, I never have, but I might graduate to it someday. And I don't recall if at that point I'd made up my mind on farside.

[Pomegranate]

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

[Pomegranate]

no time for a big post.....Pom, when did you decide you were going to hide behind farside?

Well, so it's N1, and I think "Hey, I'm a hider! Who do I think is likely town, that I can confirm?" I decided on farside. So the answer is about five minutes before I sent in my action.

--

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

what confused you about it?

Look at what I posted as my role- lots of STUFF. I guess I wasn't confused, but it was hard to get it straight at first.

[Pomegranate]

Trends are a natural part of mafia. Momentum is what drives discussion.

BUT

when we wait so long to lynch someone scummy we forget why they were scummy. Pom was always going to be the lynch today but because nobody has gotten off their asses to make this lynch happen we are losing it and letting Pom get away.

There are two problems with this post:

1. Espeonage is scum.
2. He always talks about "why Pom is scummy", yet has never explained why he thinks that I'm scum other than "Um... I'm voting you because of what

he

said. Yeah, that's why.."

[Pomegranate]

Here's what I think about Pom:

-This loss of momentum/other scumhunting having chance of actually being lynch-dangerous due to a big enough block of people intent on lynching Pom NOW is harmful to drag out
-In the site meta the usually strategically sound thing for scum to claim is something that is usually strategically sound for town to leave alive for a couple of days (and this whole debate is that in a condensed form I guess)
-Oct. 1 2009 Pom voted in a MD poll asking for advice for off-site modded ongoing game that if the hider targets the SK and SK targets the hider due to a busdriver, then action resolution is that SK accidentally kills himself because the hider hid behind him, plus the hider dies because the person he hid behind is killed that night.
1) She answered not-according-to-mafiascum-sitemeta, imo
2) But the act of answering the scenario shows familiarity/confidence with the concept of a hider.
I'm trying to get to whether she was genuinely confused about her role. Claiming confusion, coming from her, stroke me namely as a bambi batting eyelashes - false. (Same problem to lesser degree with not breadcrumbing target, because it's essential to the role.)
-The usefulness of her role, if real, is compromised by her not being able to breadcrumb anymore and to a lesser degree somewhat compromised by being known due to the existing if not terrible likely possibility of roleblocking, redirecting.
-I think that she has a good chance of turning up scum due to both her play, the claim, lesser degree Zito flip.
-The benefits of leaving her alive for a couple of days if town do not outweigh the bog this game is in currently imo, with no other candidate getting consensus in sight even.

-I have a nagging pattern feeling there are several players I have thought scummy otherwise that are just outliers to the wagon criticizing it that would not fit as scumbuddies for Pom but would fit as scum positioning themselves for town lynch, I wanna check that.
-I want to see Porochaz's case on Richard promised for (rl) today before a lynch happens and whether he strikes me as genuine there. (I liked what Javert was doing with him.)

I will likely vote Pom to L-1 after Prozac posts, unless the second last point strikes me as very blatant on review now.

Yes, I'm familiar with Hiders, and I was before this game. But my weak mode isn't technically a hider. So I was confused.

[Pomegranate]

Yes, because it made much more sense. But then I rechecked since I was claiming, and I got confused again.

[Pomegranate]

IIRC, it was because you made no real stance on me.

[Pomegranate]

wait, what?

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, .

Yes, I'm familiar with Hiders, and I was before this game. But my weak mode isn't technically a hider. So I was confused.

I think that others have mentioned it, but it's possible to be familiar with a role without having played with one. For example, I've never played with a naive cop, but I know what a naive cop

is

. Got it?

[Pomegranate]

Okay. So I'm lynched. Let me say again that I'm town as you'll see shortly. So listen:

farside is confirmed town.
Espeonage is

SCUM

.
Proabaly ABR is scum too.
Lynch one of them tomorrow.
Work from there.

[Pomegranate]

Who said it's my last post?

Go town, will ya?



(I may as well leave this game on a happy note. This is the best thing ABR has done all game, telling me to smile. I'm smiling.)

[Pomegranate]

Nah, that's going too far. Do you want me to frown.

[Pomegranate]

??

[Pomegranate]

Tempting, but no.

[Pomegranate]

Yeah. Lynch him tomorrow.

FTW!

[Pomegranate]

Lovely flavor. Blood is fun when it's warm.

[Pomegranate]

Bet thats the longest post ABR will make this game. And the most useful.

Definitely longest, but it's hard to say that it's useful- all his posts are useless.

[Pomegranate]

Yes. But they're all equally useless.

[Pomegranate]

GG scum. Well.

[Pomegranate]

He frustrates me (as was obvious in this game), but it's just his style of things.