Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[Cyberbob]

Vote: SensFan

For that thing in that one game on that other time.

[Cyberbob]

Why do you consider not random voting antitown, Sens? Surely it's in the town's best interests to get out of the random stage ASAP? I mean sure if the

manner

in which someone attempts to first take things seriously is a bit suss then that's something to look at but I don't consider the action itself in any way a bad thing.

As far as other recent stuff goes... not seeing much in either Elscouta (the "scumclaim" was pretty clearly a joke and therefore a nulltell) or xvart.

Unvote, Vote: Drippereth

- the vote on Elmocrates coming a whole 3 minutes after being called out on not voting for any of their suspects in the previous post doesn't look great.

[Cyberbob]

The first one was DGB, the one with the vote was me.

I am questioning the timing more than the quirks of being a hydra.

[Cyberbob]

CyberBob/xvart: Why do you think scum are (not) more likely to joke about being scum?

I suppose I'm arguing from personal experience; I've been tempted to make that kind of joke before as both town and scum in roughly equal measures.

[Cyberbob]

Bob: I get a shitload of tells from the way people random vote. Therefore, I find it anti-town if people opt not to random vote, since only Scum would have something to hide.

That makes sense. I don't see as much in randomness as you apparently do (that's not to say that I don't look at all) so it's a matter of playstyle I suppose.

[Cyberbob]

Sorry about the posting gap, Easter weekend is a busy one for me.

I'll post something more substantial tomorrow (too tired to focus on very many things atm) but I do want to just look at this:

I'm scum and don't want people to realize you've figured out my entire scum team's plot to make you look as bad as possible by piling every single one of our votes on you.

And say lol? I don't even know how to react to this because

nobody

is dumb enough to say this unsarcastically; but on the other hand you aren't showing any objective signs of actually being sarcastic.

[Cyberbob]

^ that is suss as Cyberbob has no such reaction over's Elscouta claim.

FoS Cyberbob

To be honest I haven't really been reading much, the last day or two have pretty much been one thing after another IRL (mostly due to Easter family gatherings) and I haven't been able to be very active on the internet at all. There's nothing on today (ironically enough given that it's Easter Sunday) so I will be able to read everything and actually get back into the game proper.

[Cyberbob]

Alrighty, so this post is basically gettingbackuptospeed.txt:

Starting reading from my post on the 2nd, which is Post 64:

• Elmocrates' Post 66 makes some strong points against xvart, more specifically the ones about his lack of pressure on Elscouta after putting his vote down.
  
• Starbuck's Post 73 makes another good point though I would have liked it if she'd gone a bit further into who specifically she thinks was being opportunistic.
  
• xvart's Post 79 is logically coherent enough (as long as you accept the rather iffy premise about Elscouta's intentions) but his response to Elmocrates' aforementioned point about his lack of pressure feels really disingenuous. It also took an explicit statement from Elscouta about the meaning of his post for xvart to finally get what almost everyone else had ages ago.
  
• Kmd's Post 84 is a good one.
  
• I disagree with Iec's Post 86, or at least his argument about Kmd's treatment of Sens' point. If I saw someone consistently doing something I found very scummy/antitown I would try and stamp that behaviour out with policy lynches.
  
• Agree with Drippereth's Post 90 in the sense that Starbuck was certainly defending Elscouta but I don't know if I'd say that they're
  definitely
  scumbuddies if one of them is scum. Townies attack what they perceive to be bad cases all the time.
  
• Don't like xofelf's Post 94. Gut feeling.
  
• I wish J-Scope would have gone into a bit more detail about why he has a town read on xvart in Post 99. He does put into words rather nicely my feeling about xofelf's post however.
  
• I don't like the way xvart keeps portraying other people's arguments in stupidly outlandish rhetorical questions. Kinda smells of strawmanning IMO.
  
• Starbuck's Post 103 is nice in that she finally goes into who she was talking about and why she isn't voting them, but I would've liked a little more than two one-liners.
  
• Don't like all the talk about previous games and whatnot in the middle of Page 5, I don't really see that it has much relevance to this one.
  
• Wow, ooba's reasoning for voting xvart in Post 128 is
  terrible
  .
  
• Both FeFiFoFum's and Anon's votes for xvart in Posts 144 and 145 respectively are pretty lazy.
  
• I wish SensFan wouldn't be so caught up in discussing meta tells, but like the RVS chat earlier that's a matter of playstyle I guess. Would still be nice if he could find some time to talk about something else.
  
• xvart does a good job of explaining himself in Post 152 I feel, it would have been handy of him to do so earlier though considering how much attention he has continued to tie up (that is now apparently invalid).
  
• The Page 7 discussion about breadcrumbing is almost totally incoherent; the non sequiturs are flying thick and fast from all sides. I would love to know where the hell Jack came up with the cop-word though.
  
• Don't like SocioPath's vote in Post 171. This game is building a very long list of lazy votes.
  
• Budja's Post 172 is playing both sides of the fence bigtime.
  
• I still don't get Kmd's comment in Post 175 that I highlighted earlier. I must be thick.
  
• Cobalt has been absolutely useless. 4 posts all game, two of them being nothing more than unvote/votes and the other two being nonsensical oneliners.
  
• Re Budja's 202: Elscouta's "claim" was really stupidly obviously referring to a previous game from the very beginning. Kmd's is clearly just as obviously something similarly innocuous; can someone explain to me what that is?
  
• More metachat (and nothing else) from xofelf in Post 203. Talk about something else please.

And with that I'm more or less up to speed... I'm not liking xofelf, Cobalt, Budja, ooba or Budja. Xvart's constant misrepresentations are annoying but I don't think they're scummy; he just thinks he's being clever.

Unvote, Vote: Cobalt

. Post content please.

[Cyberbob]

Do you not think that might be a sign of sarcasm?

Well that's what I was thinking, but usually when people are being sarcastic you can tell by the wording of what they're saying. I couldn't find anything in Kmd's statement of that nature so that threw me a bit.

[Cyberbob]

I like both wagons. Is that bad?

That's not a bad thing in of itself but your post was some seriously sleazy waffling.

[Cyberbob]

Damn Iec. If I'd known that one dotpoint of disagreement on a fairly minor issue was going to draw that kind of a frenzy out of you I wouldn't have stopped there.

His only allusion to Cobalt is to claim that he is "useless," whereas one of said posts points out a totally reasonable inconsistency in CB's behavior. (Well, at least a respond-to-able one.)

Have you even looked at Cobalt in isolation? I don't think you have.

He also ignores the Iec-Jack issue 100%, which possibly implies an unfavorable Jack connection.

I think you're getting a bit full of yourself there broheim. You made like three posts (not including those dumb EBWOPs - I would advise taking the time to think your posts through fully before hitting Submit) about him, all of which either took way too many words to say what you were saying or were simply intellectual masturbation.

Unvote; Vote: Cyberbob

. I think Budja's point about the discrepancy between Cyberbob's behavior relative to Els and Kmd was shaky-ish, but CB's failure to address it looks bad. Also, what he DID address looks bad. I can't speak for the aspects of his bulleted list

that I can't be bothered to read through right now

; correct me if there's isolated brilliance in there somewhere, please.

So you're writing paragraph after frenzied paragraph about my play but you can't even be bothered to read it. Nice one. In this one (1) case I will aid your illiteracy by quoting the part where I addressed Budja's point, but from now on I don't think it's too much to expect people to read my posts in a game of mafia.

Re Budja's 202: Elscouta's "claim" was really stupidly obviously referring to a previous game from the very beginning. Kmd's is clearly just as obviously something similarly innocuous; can someone explain to me what that is?

/drunkpost

Hahaha, yeah okay. I guess that explains all the retarded LOL @'s, IMO's and XD's.

Cobalt: VOTE CB
*time passes*
Cobalt: UMM GUYS CB IS SCUM CUZ (etc.)
Budja: LOLYA. FOR EXAMPLE, (etc.)
CB: HI GUYS. IT IS EASTER. THEREFORE, I WILL CATCH UP LATER!
CB: CATCH-UP POST! HOWEVER, I WILL REFRAIN FROM ADDRESSING COBALT/BUDJA'S ISSUE! BUDJA AND COBALT ARE SCUM THO! I WILL VOTE COBALT BECAUSE HE IS USELESS! (HERE ARE SOME OTHER FACTS ABOUT THE GAME SO THAT THIS IS NOT PURELY AN OMGUS POST.)

Find the missing puzzle piece plz.

yur rite thats totaly how it hapend!!1

[Cyberbob]

CyberBob, I believe kmd was mocking this comment of xvart:

Knowing my alignment and the target I put on myself I felt/feel that there are probably some scum on my wagon right now, so I started pushing back.

Ah, okay. I wish he would quote the posts he's responding to, but that makes sense.

[Cyberbob]

Sorry for the triple post, I missed this:

@Cyber, This is "sleazy waffling" . Elaborate please?

I look at it and all I see is someone setting himself up for a possible switch to another, more up-and-coming, wagon without running the risk of being called opportunistic. I feel more or less the same way about all those "well I

might

vote X but then again I might not - and if I do/don't it's someone else's fault" posts. Say that you like both wagons, sure - that's hardly an uncommon phenomenon regardless of alignment. But as soon as you start waffling about which one you might end up hopping on that just comes off as deliberately setting yourself up to avoid suspicion no matter what happens.

[Cyberbob]

I know, and you could have just left it there.

[Cyberbob]

What?

It was a bit of rhetoric.

I see Cyberbob keeps mentioning my scumclaim. Basically, I was getting sick of Xvart's assumptions that anyone who says they are scum in the RVS must be and then he goes on to say that Farside and I are clearing him and stuff so yeah.

Yeah, someone pointed that out for me. S'cool.

The only @ Cobalt I saw weakly discredited Cobalt on grounds CB himself was probably guilty of (given that it was a catch-up post)

No, you're dumb. I haven't posted too many posts but the ones I have have all had a lot more content than Cobalt's. I don't think you've put any effort into this at all.

he also suspected another player who was suspicious of him (Budja)

You're reading a lot more into that than is actually there. OMGUS only works if the return fire is on shaky ground; I would have said exactly the same things about him regardless of whether he was suspicious of me or not. His suspicion was easily dealt with in any case as it was based on a quick little misunderstanding that was simple to clarify.

he misrepresented my point on SF IMO

Dude, I barely said anything about your point on SF and it was a straight-up disagreement, not an attack. Why are you being so reactive to literally everything I say about you?

and he ignored Jack

No I didn't.

CB, you didn't have to weigh in on the little theory debate. You just had to say whether Jack was naughty. You've said that Els's was irrelevant because it referred to a previous game and that Kmd's was fine, too (even though you posted about it? and then you said that it was fine by benefit-of the-doubt?). What about Jack's? And why do you want him to show you the Cop breadcrumb? O.o

I have no idea what the hell you are trying to say here. The last sentence is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever and I can tell you that I in no way want or wanted him to show me the breadcrumb.

You have misrepresented, twisted, overreacted to and outright invented some of my words. This is getting tiring; I suggest you keep a glass of water by your side when posting so you can take a drink whenever your fingers start to stumble over one another in your haste to type. Stream-of-consciousness is not an appropriate style for mafia, sorry.

[Cyberbob]

Connections between Iec and Cobalt as well as Iec and Drippereth. Possible between Iec and Budja.

Xofelf needs more scrutiny from people I feel, her posting has been almost entirely metachat with SF and nobody has commented on it apart from the odd mention in passing.

[Cyberbob]

Neither were there signs of Kmd's comment being sarcastic to someone who didn't spot the connection with xvart, but it was.

I was expressing suspicion at how you might have gotten the idea that it was specifically a

cop

breadcrumb. I was not asking for you to actually show it to me.

[Cyberbob]

a) how does expressing suspicion = just a bit of rhetoric

If you look at the actual words I said it very much looks like a request for the crumb itself. That was rhetorical.

b) why were you suspicious about it being a cop breadcrumb specifically? Aren't breadcrumbs usually specific? Do people breadcrumb "as yet unnamed power role"?

Breadcrumbs are so incredibly varied that even if I did spot one I would be extremely hesitant in 9 out of 10 cases to actually with any confidence assign a role to it. I'll grant you that this one could be more explicit in what it is doing though.

[Cyberbob]

It wasn't just a disagreement IMO; it was a misrepresentation. That is not what I said at all.

But this was a relatively minor point, anyway.

lmao

Then what's up with this?

See the first part of my last post to Jack as well as the entirety of the one before it.

[Cyberbob]

The main point was the perceived OMGUS on Cobalt and Budja.

Which I have also addressed. I did say I was only going to enable your illiteracy once; I'm standing by that position.

Are you saying your "I'd like to see the crumb!" statement was rhetorical?

See above.

If so, what was the purpose of the rhetoric?

What was the purpose of all those @'s, LOL's and XD's?

[Cyberbob]

(It wasn't an "I'd like to see the crumb!!!!!!!!" statement by the way; it was a "where did you pull the word 'cop' from" statement. There's a difference.)

Vote Count 10: Lynch

Starbuck - 1 - PaltryExcuse
Drippereth - 1 - xvart
Steam Powered Shovel - 3 - Starbuck, Drippereth, Elmocrates
SensFan - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
FeFiFoFum - 1 - Jack
xvart -

5

- Budja, Kmd4390, farside22, FeFiFoFum, Anon
Anon - 1 - Elscouta
MehPlusRawr - 1 - Papa Zito
xofelf - 1 - SensFan
Jack - 3 - SpyreX, SocioPath, J-Scope
Cyberbob - 2 - Cobalt, Iecerint
Papa Zito - 1 - ooba
Elscouta - 1 - curiouskarmadog
Cobalt -1 - Cyberbob

Not Voting (2): MehPlusRawr, xofelf

With 25 players alive it'll take 13 to lynch and 13 to no-Lynch.

There are no players in the

Halls of Mandos

, so right now there are no

Revive

or

Destroy

counts.

[Cyberbob]

wait what

I'm not really the type to look back at past games; I'm looking purely at this one.

[Cyberbob]

My point wasn't that you hadn't addressed the "main point," but that you attempted to discredit me by "lmao"-ing my statement that your misrep of me was relatively minor. It was minor because the major part was the OMGUS.

Go back to school.

LOL/XD are rhetorical. Their purpose was to call attention to what I perceived to be silly inconsistencies in your post.

Really? The only thing I found having my attention called to was your inability to write English.

I suppose you're saying that your "rhetorical" statement was intended to call attention to the absence of the hypothetical Cop crumb? Did you wonder whether this might lead Jack to, I don't know, call your bluff?

I don't even know where to start with this. For one thing: why do you ask a question and then proceed under the assumption that the answer is yes (it isn't)?

[Cyberbob]

Well, first I asked an open-ended question. You didn't answer it, meaning you either don't understand why it's important (townCB), or you simply can't answer it (probably scumCB). So I decided to make clear what it LOOKS LIKE went down so that you'd be clued in if the former were the reason for your being so uncooperative. The fact that you subsequently continued your evasiveness and stepped up your attempts to discredit me implies the latter.

I honestly don't mean to "step up my attempts to discredit you", but it's so hard when you give me so much material...

In any case, there was no particular reason why I phrased my response to his specifically bringing up cops the way I did. I like the bit of snarky emphasis using a rhetorical question adds to a post, I guess.

[Cyberbob]

I do think that Iecerint's point about OMGUS & not answering the point seems true, though, I'd like a better response than "lol no" unless I've missed something.

You have missed something, though I said it a few pages back and it was in the middle of a fair few quotes so it would have been easy to miss.

You're reading a lot more into that than is actually there. OMGUS only works if the return fire is on shaky ground; I would have said exactly the same things about him regardless of whether he was suspicious of me or not. His suspicion was easily dealt with in any case as it was based on a quick little misunderstanding that was simple to clarify.

That was talking about Budja, I don't believe I've given Cobalt a similarly comprehensive treatment (I did cover the point about "u havent posted much either!!1") but the same "OMGUS only works if the return fire is on shaky ground" point applies. I fail to see how anyone can look at Cobalt's posts and in all honesty say that he isn't objectively deserving of suspicion - or a little pressure to post content at the very least.

[Cyberbob]

Ah yes, that thing that allows people to read your thoughts and feelings, as well as being a tool for persuading others to agree with a certain point of view. What a cliche.

I don't care whether he does it as town or not, that style of posting is incredibly antitown. Even if he isn't lynched today I want to see some pressure on him to shape up his act.

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP: That was directed at Jack.

[Cyberbob]

Fine.

"Ah yes, that thing that allows people to read your thoughts and feelings, as well as being a tool for persuading others to agree with a certain point of view. What a buzzword."

Now can we stop playing games of semantics?

[Cyberbob]

Those are some of the most pathetic reasons for a vote I've ever seen.

[Cyberbob]

Ah, hell, I'll bite. What's pathetic about it?

Almost everything.

"Nullifying my favorite events in the game so far" - What?
"being responsible for the policy lynch on SF that rubbed me the wrong way earlier" - Are you talking about another game here?
"Also, 0% impressed with his reported reads." - Absolutely nothing on why this is scummy (hint: disagreeing with someone does not automatically make them scummy), just a lame duck NOT IMPRESSED.
"Alsoalso," - This scrabbling shows to me that even you know how stupid your reasons up to this point are.
"low activity" - True, but there are plenty of people who have done the same.
"and an unusual fixation on MPR." - This is just about the only vaguely relevant thing you brought up, but it's hardly worth a vote.

[Cyberbob]

I liked the Jack wagon better before CB got mixed up in it.

lol, since when have I been "mixed up in" the Jack wagon? I'm voting Cobalt and have been since my PBPA post.

It blows my mind that people don't find him scummy.

Yet it never occurs to you that perhaps you are wrong; no, you couldn't be!! It's everyone

else

that is blind to my true evil!!!!

[Cyberbob]

Is that [insert lame OMGUS counter-argument here] OMGUS, or are you claiming that someone has OMGUS'd somewhere? Cuz I dun think you ever attacked me, and I don't think Jack attacked Elmo.

o_O

Why don't you try pointing me to the bit you're talking about, and perhaps give your phrasing a serious tweak. Thanks in advance.

[Cyberbob]

I would lay a vote on xofelf but it'd just be a pressure vote (I don't think her uselessness has progressed to the point where it's actually scummy); I'll stick with Cobalt for now but I will be keenly watching xofelf's reaction to the votes she's picked up so far.

[Cyberbob]

since Jack's situation clarifies things there.

Expand on this please.

[Cyberbob]

he's been having a pointless duel with iec since forever while keeping his vote on me

Our "duel" wouldn't have been anywhere near as enduring if he a) could write and b) could read

empty sarcasm attack

Not an attack, a "What?". Which never even came close to turning into an attack; so sorry that I'm not the ~sArCaSm DeTeCtOr MaStEr~ that you are but there was literally nothing in it and you are terrible at mafia no matter how much you pretend to be a zen master of the short sharp incisive posts

accused me of not posting content when I called him on above empty attack

Like I said OMGUS only works when the "return fire" isn't valid in its own right; once again, you are awful at this game

[Cyberbob]

^ OMGUS + adhom ftw

^does not know what either of these things are ftw

[Cyberbob]

Ad hom is you saying that I can't read and I can't write. It is also you saying that Cobalt is bad at this game/terrible at mafia.

Nope, try again.

But on the other hand, if you didn't mean that he was scummy, why are you voting him, etc.

I do think he's scummy, and I will be voting for him until he shows otherwise or something better comes along. Am I going to need to post why my vote for him is not OMGUS again?

[Cyberbob]

Um, OK.

[Cyberbob]

(directed at Jack)

[Cyberbob]

What's the cyberbob case then?

There is no case, Cobalt thinks he's pounced on a SCUM OVERREACTION in my supposed attack on Kmd over what was, to him, an obviously-sarcastic comment. In reality I simply did not spot the sarcasm and my "attack" consisted of "WTF this must be sarcastic but I don't see any signs of it, can kmd/someone else point it out to me plz".

[Cyberbob]

Re xofelf: Still waiting on her reaction to the pressure on her before I decide whether or not to lay my vote on. Note that she has not posted (in this thread, I don't know about anywhere else with searching down) since Wednesday.

[Cyberbob]

@ CB, use this to search. It looks like she hasn't been posting elsewhere. It's sometimes a bit behind, though.

Dang, that's handy. Thanks.

[Cyberbob]

xofelf, I really wish you hadn't bought into the garbage posting that has been the last few pages but whatever. I see a reaction to a wagon that formed as a result of irrelevant and offtopic posting... that is itself 90% offtopic/10% scumhunting. And the scumhunting consists entirely of a gut read.

Come up with something better or die.

Unvote, Vote: xofelf

[Cyberbob]

Also I would appreciate it if people would

stop arguing over meta

. I wasn't joking about the last few pages being garbage.

[Cyberbob]

Hm, this game moves fast.

Which people? Which posts (numbers) do you think are really bad?

Looking at Pages 19-21, that would be you, SensFan, xofelf and farside (though she managed to be somewhat useful while doing so) for the most part. The discussion actually wasn't quite as mindless as it first appeared to be but it's still a pretty big distraction from the game we're playing right now.

There weren't any particularly bad individual posts; it's more the fact that the discussion went for so long and never really got anywhere that made it so annoying.

239: @CyberbobDoes not follow up with a vote on a player who in his own words "misrepresented, twisted, overreacted to and outright invented some of my words."

At the time I was trying to put pressure on Cobalt to post content; I tend to stick with pressure votes (it kind of defeats the purpose if you show that you're easily persuaded to unvote) unless either a) it becomes obvious that nobody else is on board or b) something particularly voteworthy happens elsewhere. Iecerint was being more of an annoying pest than actually being outright scummy. I think someone said that our argument was basically two townies coming to blows; that's pretty much how it felt to me as well.

He was being kind of rude.

So your solution to my "rudeness" was to make a post that you knew wasn't going to actually cause anything to happen? Good plan.

[Cyberbob]

I don't really understand the SPS wagon, could someone explain it to me or point me to a post that covers it nicely?

[Cyberbob]

P.S. this better not end up being a nolynch.

I don't think it will, we've got a number of hours left and Iecerint's gone on the record saying that he will vote for her in order to prevent a No Lynch.

[Cyberbob]

This feels a bit anticlimactic, somehow.

[Cyberbob]

L-4 in one IRL day (with 6 of those 7 votes coming in the last 5 hours) is quite sufficient for the information we've been given I think; particularly given all the superb posts that went along with them!

Destroy: xofelf

Revive: farside22

[Cyberbob]

I think we need a full claim from you, J-Scope.

Overplayed your hand on this one, I'm afraid.

Vote: Elscouta

[Cyberbob]

Pushing for a full claim on the sole basis of a vague soft role information claim from FFFF? Yeah, right. Don't play coy with me.

[Cyberbob]

So you believe that FFFF claim is nothing, and that we shouldn't lynch J-Scope today?

I think we should wait for him to give us a bit more than "durf I have role info on him that I think indicates scum" before asking for a J-Scope claim (let alone a lynch), yes. This kind of situation is exactly the sort of one scum want the town to blindly rush their way through.

[Cyberbob]

Wow, this game exploded overnight.

I really want to lynch FFFF just because asadfsadfsadfsadfsadf but I think Elscouta is being far scummier. He pushed the J-Scope lynch as hard as he could before FFFF had gone any further than his initial (rather information-poor) post, and now that people's opinions have changed he's turned around and is pushing

very

hard on FFFF. That's classic scum trying to take advantage of the situation to get a perceived easy lynch off.

I really hate FFFF's play and objectively speaking I think he deserves to die ASAP (whether he's scum or town) for it but let's not get focused too narrowly here.

[Cyberbob]

Oh yes. It's so more scummy to try to lynch someone that admitted to lie THREE times instead of just pointing fingers everywhere to confuse the town.

"pointing fingers everywhere to confuse the town."
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe it's time to stop second guessing everything and taking things to face value.

Yes because as we all know all mafia players tell the truth all the time!!

I sure am glad we didn't take FFFF's result claim at face value, how about you?

early "guilty" claim = lynch the target
obvious pile lie = lynch.

Please don't insult my intelligence by trying to whitewash actions made only a few pages ago. That early "guilty" claim was an incredibly vague role info claim that came with absolutely nothing that could have helped the town to decide its validity. Yet you were quite happy to, based on this and this alone, not only push for J-Scope to make a full claim but also to get him lynched.

The second one is considerably more reasonable

in isolation

; if you hadn't pulled the first trick I wouldn't be gunning for you. When your play today is looked at as a whole it just becomes incredibly obvious that you are trying to get someone - anyone - lynched as quickly as possible.

The fact that Drippereth is scum trying to capitalize on the situation makes me think there is a possibility that FFFF is town though. I won't take any chance though.

You know Drippereth is scum for a fact, and you aren't voting for them?

[Cyberbob]

1) It was very clear from FFFF that he claimed either a tracker / role cop ability. There was no reason to ask him more. Standard procedure is : lynch target, lynch FFFF if target town afterwards.

If he had straight up claimed alignment (like a regular investigation) I would agree with this standard procedure, but since he claimed role/tracking info then that just goes out the door; there are infinitely more possible scenarios in which J-Scope could have been town. This also calls into question why you would automatically lynch FFFF the next day as misinterpreting those kinds of results is hardly a rare occurrence amongst town players.

2) People that doubted FFFF before ooba counterclaim are most likely to be scum knowing that J-Scope is town (town would have had no reason to doubt FFFF)

Or they simply don't want to shoehorn themselves into one, possibly two lynches based on such a small amount of (very possibly unreliable/misinterpreted) information. It also sets up a meta in which future scum can very easily trigger mislynches whenever they want.

3) Let's do each thing at a time. First, let's lynch the liar, then i hope to get enough support to lynch Drippscum. It seems like unlikely though.

How hard have you pushed your Drippereth case? Have you voted for them at all today? You were voting them for all of 4 hours yesterday before you were "convinced" into voting for xofelf in your last post for the day.

Well, it's usually a fact that people having being caught in a lie, backtracked two times, and just messing around now are town. But nice misrepresentation of my point.

I think there's a typo in there somewhere, so I'll respond to this as if you said "aren't town" because that actually makes sense:

If I hadn't spotted you hunting around for an easy wagon to look good pushing then I would be voting for FFFF. I consider sneaky plays like the one you were/are attempting to be a lot scummier than the sort of thing FFFF tried simply because stupid town players are a lot more prevalent than town players who try to lynch anyone they possibly can regardless of whether it's a good idea or not.

So if i'm trying to lynch anyone, you believe i'm a SK, right? Unless you also believe that FFFF is town?

"What is this concept of scum being willing to aid in a buddy's lynch if it means playing along with prevailing town opinion and coming out looking protown??? I am not familiar with this chain of events" --Elscouta, 2010

[Cyberbob]

Gee, thanks for only sharing that little tidbit with us now Kmd.

[Cyberbob]

Really Iec? Really?

This is bottom of the barrel stuff, even for you. Second-guessing other people's IRL situations based on your own idiosyncrasies is a ludicrous way to go about "scumhunting".

Vote: Iecerint

Destroy: FFFF

Revive: Drippereth

[Cyberbob]

There's also the matter of the content of his posts, but I can't allude to those beyond acknowledging their existence without breaking site rules AFAIK. <_<

Let me put it this way, since you clearly don't seem to be getting it:

Using people's activity levels in other threads and subforums of this site as a platform for an attack is retarded except in the specific case of them being completely inactive and the point is being made that they aren't simply lurking. It's invasive and it's an absolute minefield of presumptuous speculation.

[Cyberbob]

Oh, was he? I was just voting for Drippereth because I thought they were more protown in their posting than him; I must have missed that claim.

Unrevive Drippereth, Revive: J-Scope

[Cyberbob]

Yeah, it's everyone

else's

fault for your inability to derive quality reads from a game.

Honestly not much else to comment on since my last post, most of this page and a good chunk of the previous one have been empty discussion about FFFF. I don't like Budja's vote all that much though, surely there are better votes at this stage in the game to make than a pure meta one?

[Cyberbob]

Isn't the Iec case based on the meta Socio brought up?

My vote would definitely still have been made even if SocioPath had not posted that link.

Vote Count 3 - 04: Lynch

Steam-Powered Shovel - 1 - Jack
xvart - 1 - Iecerint
Iecerint -

4

- SocioPath, Cyberbob, Starbuck, Papa Zito
Jack - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
Kmd4390 - 2 - farside22, curiouskarmadog
Papa Zito - 1 - Budja

Not Voting (8): MehPlusRawr, SpyreX, xvart, Anon, SensFan, Cobalt, ooba, Kmd4390

With 18 players alive it'll take 10 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

Vote Count 3 - 04: Revive

J-Scope -

10

- Iecerint, curiouskarmadog, Cyberbob, Steam-Powered Shovel, Starbuck, xvart, ooba, Jack, MehPlusRawr, Budja

Drippereth - 1 - Kmd4390

Not Voting (7): farside22, SpyreX, Papa Zito, Anon, SensFan, Cobalt, SocioPath

With 18 players alive it'll take 10 to revive. If a player has over 10 to Revive, the choice is locked in and that player will be revived and return to the game proper when the lynch resolves.

J-Scope

will be revived when the lynch resolves. I will henceforth no longer note the Revive count.

[Cyberbob]

hi
is anyone else not feeling the usual minty-fresh obvtown aura spyrex usually exudes?

that's a bit rich coming from you... however...

It would be nice if he could post with a bit more depth, yeah.

In other news I like xvart's case on Budja but Iecerint's attempts at defending himself have been completely awful so I'll stick with him for the moment. I don't want to let that godawful attack of his slide into obscurity.

[Cyberbob]

I asked about the SPS wagon all the way back on Page 26 and got this from Iece:

Having just reread him in iso: he comes out of RVS by joining the unexplained policy lynch on SF. Then he benchsits through the first part of the game. Joins the wagon on Jack without providing reasoning. Pulls meta defense to address questions related to his behavior. Then he lampshades Jack's fake daykill on you. In short, his behavior has ranged from vacuous to anti-town (at best) all game

Does this cover the case adequately or is there more to it? If that's all there is then I would agree that he's scummy but I would disagree that he is OMG SO OBVIOUSLY SCUM - I think there are definitely better lynch targets than him at the moment.

The worst thing on there is the self-metaing (which to be fair is actually pretty bad) but I don't know if it's enough for a vote. Am I missing anything? If so I'll read through his posts in isolation (I despise the term "iso" and all other grizzled-mafia-veteran jargon) and see what's what.

Normally I wouldn't ask but everyone else appears to be seeing something I'm not.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob: post 180 Why not pressure kmd to find out which it is?

I thought I was pressuring him? There was no way in hell that I was ever going to vote him or whatever else over something that I was more confused by than suspicious of.

Post 210 I don't like the vote on cobalt here. Seems more like wanting to lynch a lurker then finding something really scummy about him.

I don't think he's lurking in the sense that he's merely inactive, I think he's actively posting as little content as he thinks he can get away with - which is incredibly scummy. He must have been lynched a whole shitload of times before he managed to entrench this horrible playstyle as a nulltell in people's heads.

post 240 please point to these connections.

Post 214, Post 218, Post 230 and Post 233.

I refuse to be any more specific until you direct a similar thirst for content at Cobalt rather than actively defending him.

I really don't know why you kept your vote on cobalt all of day 1 with the ice interaction.

Well, my reasons wer-

post 541 poor reasoning.

Oh, OK.

and yet you switched so easily to the elf wagon. Bravo

"Easily"

laffo. By the time the xofelf wagon was looking viable it was abundantly clear to me that everyone was deadset on ignoring Cobalt.

As of day 2: What happened to the ice/cobalt connection?

Day 2 feels blah and day 3 just more blah.[/quote]
k00l

I would swear that reading cyber he was making a case on Ice most of day 1 while keeping a vote on cobalt: Oh wait that did happen. That just makes no sense. Then his reason for keeping it there but then switching to elf looks opportunistly scummy.

t;farside22"]All the sudden Cyber loses his memory of day 1 attacks Esc and now voting on ice.

This sentence is missing a few words between "day 1" and "attacks Esc". It seriously doesn't make sense.

In short cyber feels all sorts of off to me.

k

------------------------------------------------------------

In short cyber feels all sorts of off to me.

welcome to my case since page 3

How many times were you lynched for this horrible playstyle before you somehow managed to get it entrenched as a nulltell? You have done zip to push your "case" on me apart from a couple of HE'S SCUM OKAY one-liners.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob: post 180 Why not pressure kmd to find out which it is?

I thought I was pressuring him? There was no way in hell that I was ever going to vote him or whatever else over something that I was more confused by than suspicious of.

Post 210 I don't like the vote on cobalt here. Seems more like wanting to lynch a lurker then finding something really scummy about him.

I don't think he's lurking in the sense that he's merely inactive, I think he's actively posting as little content as he thinks he can get away with - which is incredibly scummy. He must have been lynched a whole shitload of times before he managed to entrench this horrible playstyle as a nulltell in people's heads.

post 240 please point to these connections.

Post 214, Post 218, Post 230 and Post 233.

I refuse to be any more specific until you direct a similar thirst for content at Cobalt rather than actively defending him.

I really don't know why you kept your vote on cobalt all of day 1 with the ice interaction.

Well, my reasons wer-

post 541 poor reasoning.

Oh, OK.

and yet you switched so easily to the elf wagon. Bravo

"Easily"

laffo. By the time the xofelf wagon was looking viable it was abundantly clear to me that everyone was deadset on ignoring Cobalt.

As of day 2: What happened to the ice/cobalt connection?

Day 2 feels blah and day 3 just more blah.[/quote]
k00l

I would swear that reading cyber he was making a case on Ice most of day 1 while keeping a vote on cobalt: Oh wait that did happen. That just makes no sense. Then his reason for keeping it there but then switching to elf looks opportunistly scummy.

nice 1

All the sudden Cyber loses his memory of day 1 attacks Esc and now voting on ice.

This sentence is missing a few words between "day 1" and "attacks Esc". It seriously doesn't make sense.

In short cyber feels all sorts of off to me.

k

------------------------------------------------------------

In short cyber feels all sorts of off to me.

welcome to my case since page 3

How many times were you lynched for this horrible playstyle before you somehow managed to get it entrenched as a nulltell? You have done zip to push your "case" on me apart from a couple of HE'S SCUM OKAY one-liners.

[Cyberbob]

Both of those posts have screwed up quote tags but I think the second one's mistake is more benign.

[Cyberbob]

Also, why the meta hate? I don't know if I've asked this before but I don't get it. (@SpyreX, Zito, simular-minded people)

It's far too easy to manipulate and/or deliberately play to one's meta IMO for it to ever be a very strong tool in either scumhunting or defending oneself. Personal nulltells can sometimes be an exception (everyone has their idiosyncrasies, some of which could be found to be scummy by people who haven't played much with them).

Also: what is IIoA? Apparently that's become the new lynchpin in the SPS wagon, which must make it something of import. Nobody answered my other questions back in Post 1029 about that wagon, by the way.

[Cyberbob]

I would really appreciate it if someone on the SPS wagon would take the time to make at least a cursory stab at answering my questions about it, thanks. I'm not asking for a huge wall of text or anything like that so it should be no trouble at all to explain to me why your vote is where it is.

I'm happy that someone (farside) FINALLY started to come around on CB, even if for different reasons.

Different, yet equally dumb.

[Cyberbob]

Welp

[Cyberbob]

I have now asked like four times about the SPS wagon and yet nobody has answered me. As far as I'm concerned at this point he is nothing but an incredibly safe wagon to throw an unjustified vote on without worrying about drawing any attention for it.

FOS: Everyone voting for SPS

until someone gives me a coherent explanation for why he has been drawing votes since practically forever.

[Cyberbob]

i like ur style jack.. a real mind 4 mafia...

Vote Count 3 - 09: Lynch

Steam-Powered Shovel - 3 - Jack, SpyreX, MehPlusRawr,
xvart - 2 - Iecerint, Kmd4390
Iecerint -

4

- SocioPath, Cyberbob, Starbuck, Papa Zito
Jack - 1 - Steam-Powered Shovel
Kmd4390 - 2 - farside22, curiouskarmadog
Budja - 1 - xvart
curiousjarmadog - 1 - Budja

Not Voting (4): Anon, SensFan, Cobalt, ooba

With 18 players alive it'll take 10 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

[Cyberbob]

i didnt want 2 hav 2 do dis.. but its for teh good of teh gaem.....

kill:jack[/i]

[Cyberbob]

Papa Zito's anti-meta society thing is a little obnoxious but I think some people are reading a bit too much into it.

Iece is still posting moderately horribly, though he does get some points for being pretty much literally the only person in the game to have actually acknowledged that my questions re: SPS even exist.

Farside's Post 1102 is p good, though her response to Jack's posting is a little confusing. Almost every specific point about him that she raised was a negative one yet she still "likes" him.

Socio is being kind of useless, Kmd even moreso.

Can't get a read on CKD or Anon, the former just because I can't for some reason and the latter because his activity has been really sketchy all game.

[Cyberbob]

OK so the message I'm getting is that people are basically voting SPS because he's actively lurking plus some secret scumtell. Is that about right? Because with all the other stuff that's been going on that is just about the easiest wagon possible (I point to Cobalt joining it as additional evidence of this).

[Cyberbob]

Can we stop with the witty little contractions? "The Cyberbob wagon" and "Cyberbob as a player" will do fine, thanks.

I'm really disappointed that so many people are buying into the SPS "case", I would lay money on there being a good chunk of scum in that wagon. Nobody bar a few players have questioned it at all (let alone looking at the circumstances in which a lot of the votes on it were made); it's quite simply as easy a wagon as it gets.

[Cyberbob]

Destroy: SPS

Revive: Drippereth

I've managed to forget most of my suspicions and whatnot since yesterday so I'll have to do a quick skim of the last few pages before I weigh in on anything.

[Cyberbob]

I am absolutely 100% on board with a Cobalt lynch, I'm actually disappointed in the players of this game for letting get away with his awfulness for this long.

Vote: Cobalt

[Cyberbob]

Anon hasn't posted since the 30th. That's more grounds for a replacement than a lynch - something I wouldn't be opposed to for Cobalt, either come to think of it, though the posts that he

has

made have been far worse in terms of content than Anon's.

I don't think CKD is scum for the softclaim; there's no question that it was stupid as hell but at this point it looks like he'd almost be happy with dying because that would mean proving certain people wrong (which is anti-town as shit for a PR to do but scummy? IMO no).

I'm a bit stumped for just who actually might be scum at the moment, the waters are muddied as hell with all these competing wagons. SPS was probably scum given his entirely unneccessary lie; I'll give him a read to see whether there's anyone he came off as especially neutral on or didn't mention a whole lot (both of which being indications of a scumbuddy).

[Cyberbob]

If Anon flips scum, Cyberbob is a buddy, Cobalt probably not.

so you're saying we shouldn't replace someone who hasn't posted in nearly a week (minus Night 3)?

hahahaha yeah sure whatever mang. I love it when people ~GET ON AN AGGRESSIVE ROLL FTW~ and think they're just top shit at reading OBVSCUM into everything.

Just FYI.


Love,

CB

CKD claims this isn't the case.

Give a pro-town reason for CKD doing this.

If that's not the case then yeah his behaviour is scummy. Are you going to come at me this aggressively over literally everything I say because OMG I DARED TO DISAGREE ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD TREAT AN INACTIVE PLAYER?

I <3 competing wagons. Competing wagons are gold. I'm sorry your buddy is on one of them.

I <3 these kinds of "lol ur scum" posts. "lol ur scum" posts are gold. I'm sorry your hyperactiveness is stamped all over it.

[Cyberbob]

Scum points for CyberBob.

My name is Cyberbob. If you're going to make a oneliner +1 post (which of course PZ is going to let you get away with because you aren't disagreeing with him) it would be cool if you could get it right. Thanks.

[Cyberbob]

Overdefensiveness FTW.

Vigs, you know what to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

hi you may have heard of this

[Cyberbob]

Wow you sure dropped the venom quick. But I can't link that to a Wiki article so I guess it doesn't count.

Yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Oh yes. I'm saying we should lynch the scum no matter how often they post.

I've seen people basically summing the case against him up as a lurker lynch - those were the people I was responding to.

What's funny was everything was cool until I dared to call you scum. (you can put that in ALL CAPS if you want)

Well uh yeah because shocker! Townies can and do disagree with each other about cases and scumtells and all that stuff. It happens a lot.

(Townies calling each other scum for disagreeing also happens a lot, unfortunately)

Vote Count 4 - 06: Lynch

curiouskarmadog - 4 - Iecerint, Budja, SocioPath, Kmd4390
Anon -

5

- SpyreX, Jack, Papa Zito, Starbuck, J-Scope
Iecerint - 2 - curiouskarmadog, xvart
Cobalt - 1 - farside22

Not Voting (5): MehPlusRawr, Cyberbob, Anon, Cobalt, ooba

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

Deadline will be Wednesday May 10th at 8:26 Eastern Time.

[Cyberbob]

My vote hasn't moved. But I'll give a vig a dollar to put a bullet in his head.

hurf

[Cyberbob]

guys

I'm not scum.

I Don't think Anon is either

That's quite a change of heart, what brought this on?

(I'm about 5 minutes from leaving to a movie so I will comment on other things later tonight, I just wanted to ask this quick question first)

[Cyberbob]

Jack and ooba, why am I on your scumlists again? I haven't seen either of you say much of anything about me in recent pages apart from Jack's "scumpoints ++" piggybacking of Zito's posts.

I wasn't terribly convinced before and I was drunk enough to blather that in the thread. "Why'd you vote him then PZ?" Cuz SpyreX said to really. An alliance of 2 is better than nothing.

So that whole argument we had was for nothing? Gee thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------

If we're going to lynch a low-effort player it should be Cobalt, but it looks like farside already took care of that... I pretty much agree with Spyre about the prevalence of wagons at the moment on "useless players" as opposed to "scummy players". I'd rather lynch someone like Iecerint (especially given his rather explicit following of SpyreX's secret scumtells as well as everything else) than Starbuck.

Vote: Iecerint

[Cyberbob]

I certainly did question the SPS case, and I continued to do so after Iece gave me a summary of it that made it look like one of the worst wagons ever. I would absolutely do it again, too.

Vote Count 4 - 15: Lynch

curiouskarmadog -

5

- Budja, Kmd4390, Anon, Iecerint, Papa Zito
Anon - 1 - Starbuck
Iecerint -

5

- curiouskarmadog, xvart, Cyberbob, SpyreX, SocioPath
Starbuck - 4 - ooba, farside22, Jack, J-Scope

Not Voting (2): MehPlusRawr, Cobalt

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

Deadline will be Wednesday May 10th at 8:26 Eastern Time.

[Cyberbob]

Sorry about my low activity the last couple of days everyone, I've not had much time for anything on the Internet.

It looks like we're headed for a CKD deadline-lynch - I'm up for that after reading Iec's summary. I still think he's scum but there's no reason for him to lie about such easily-verifiable facts; I would definitely support him putting the hammer down.

The only problem is that he's actually already voting for CKD... he'd have to unvote and then we'd have to make up the L-1 numbers without him. So we'll have to see.

Unvote, Vote: CKD

[Cyberbob]

Excellent pickup there Socio.

I guess Iec still might as well be the one to hammer even though he probably won't die from it (just in case CKD was telling the truth about his role but not his Elfness for whatever reason).

[Cyberbob]

This is some crazy shit.

Tired from work atm, will post more hopefully tonight or if not then tomorrow.

[Cyberbob]

From page 55, CyberBob is scum.

you're not very smart are you

Aside from that I'm willing to buy into Kmd's game...

Vote: SocioPath

Revive: Nachomamma

Destroy: Cobalt

I didn't get the chance to post again yesterday before the lynch came, but I would like to just point out that that kind of strong aggressive play from a townie is incredibly safe for scum to get behind (regardless of whether that would involve bussing their buddies or not).

[Cyberbob]

Starbuck: Keep in mind that being confirmed town does not automatically make one right, it only means that one's opinions are known not to have been tainted by scummy motivations.

[Cyberbob]

Revive: Kmd

Destroy: Elscouta

Claim is believable enough; I'll have to take people's word for it about the flavour behind it though because I've never read the Silmarillion.

Sorry about my recent inactivity everyone (mod included), I got put on a bunch of shifts at work through most of last week and the weekend and I just haven't been in the mood or had the energy for doing much of anything mafia-related.

Tomorrow I will definitely, no excuses allowed, take the time to read over the last three or four pages and hopefully get back into the thick of things.

[Cyberbob]

OK, I've read over the game starting from Page 72 and I would say that I honestly didn't take a whole lot away due to the fact that a lot of it was taken up with rolechat (the Socio lynch was there as well of course but there wasn't a whole lot of info to be gleaned from it once he basically admitted defeat).

Just weighing in on the whole scumteam numbers thing for a sec: 4/4 is what I've generally thought to be the norm in games of this size.

As far as scumtells go I'd have to read further back but from what I remember of the game I would suggest Elscouta or ooba.

[Cyberbob]

Oh right sorry, I missed farside's up there.

I'm Mablung, Elf. I know that Huan is in the game; if they die I gain their vig powers (I don't know if I would have also died if I'd killed Carcharoth).

If I get the Silmaril I can investigate people's roles.


"Thingol therefore sent Mablung after her, with many hardy march-wards, to find her and guide her, and to learn what news they might; but Nienor was bidden to remain behind." (Silmarillion, 217)

"Alone of the messengers Mablung, chief captain of the King, escaped, and he brought the dread tidings to Thingol." (Silmarillion, 184).

Vote Count 7 - 05: Lynch

MehPlusRawr -

1

- Budja

Not Voting (10): Starbuck, farside22, MehPlusRawr, Papa Zito, Cyberbob, xvart, Nachomamma8, Jack, J-Scope, SpyreX,

With 11 players alive it'll take 6 to lynch and 6 to no-lynch.

[Cyberbob]

It's not really a full cop ability, MPR - it's only a role investigation. No alignment info is involved.

[Cyberbob]

Redirectors change the target of a person's ability, bus drivers switch around two people such that any abilities targeted at one will affect the other and vice versa. And no, I've seen both scum and town versions of both roles though I will grant you that they're more likely to be a scum role than something like a Doctor.

[Cyberbob]

Yikes. Easy on the Submit button there bro.

[Cyberbob]

Oh jeez.

[Cyberbob]

I guess it's cool that I'm suddenly in the firing line for being roleblocked when I don't even have a role that I could have used last night. You guys do realise that scum will just deliberately no-kill to effect mislynches the next day, right?

Destroy: Jack

[Cyberbob]

Bleh, I lost most of my interest in this game about halfway through. I didn't think we had much of a chance when some of the town roles started coming to light; I think both Budja and I were surprised that we made it even as far as we did.

[Cyberbob]

I was proud of my fakeclaim, though.