Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

[Tarhalindur]

First thoughts: DeathNote and Charlie look scummy as hell to me.

DeathNote: Asking for sample role PM in pregame, IIoA (latter isn't conclusive since he's acted this way before as town - but I don't remember him doing it to the same degree in XABC).

Charlie: Observe...

vote: almightybob

I felt like adding fuel to the fire.

---

Hmm... are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland? Coz I get the feeling that items are there to give a powerless town some leverage.

If a townie gets an item, they become a PR for the entire game (unless they are killed before using their new ability).
If scum gets an item, then nothing changes.

And since the mod is the AI Director, I get the feeling that he'll try to "balance" things out like in the real game
Of course that is purely speculation on my behalf.

Bandwagoning and setup speculation (of a sort that could be particularly helpful for scum). Why the hell wasn't Charlie bandwagoned like hell for this post?

Unvote, Vote: DeathNote
HoS: Charlie

[Tarhalindur]

Meh, knew I should have just posted this last night.

More thoughts from second read:

- Socrates is bugging me, but there's one obvious possible explanation for most of his behavior that I can't discount at this time.

Speaking of that,

Unvote

.

Note: *If* Socrates is scum (which is possible, but not something to be dealt with today AFAIC), Amished is a likely partner.

- Speaking of that, Amished feels a bit off. I'll go reread Inventor and Mafia 92 when I get a bit more time to double-check this.

- Glork's early play reads strongly of Glork-town. Good to know!

- WTF moment of the thread: Why was Anon asking for people to only make extremely short posts? Best possibility I can think of is that he was trying to shut down attempts at making cases...

FoS: Anon

(or more accurately, FoS his player slot).

- Let's take a close look at bv310.

unvote, Vote: DeathNote

@Socrates, what is the your reasoning on Ifrinn? So far, all I've found is a post by you on Page three where you just say "Follow me, I'm right" which really isn't all that convincing.

Ifrinn, I'll save you some time. He's saying I'm scum for voting for DeathNote along with both you and Bob. His argument is that since I didn't post the same reasons as you two, I'm clearly scum trying to bandwagon on a quicklynch. He doesn't seem to realise that votes are our way of applying pressure in order to get a player to explain their post.

Seeing as at no time did we move remotely close to a lynch, his suspicion seems to me to be scum overreacting at his partner getting three votes.

Grab: Boomer Bile

Boomer Bile in the game draws the horde, so I'd assume this is a one-shot vig weapon.

Sorry if this isn't following the plan, but I'd rather get it before scum does.

EBWOP: Okay, that post makes very little sense. Let me try again.

Say we choose person A to grab a Flashlight. Assuming the flashlight acts as an investigation (the Infected in the game are set off by light, so I'm assuming that's what it does). If Player A is scum, they can say that they investigated Player B and that Player B is scum when they are town. We're down one townie and then A gets the opportunity to talk their way out. I think the only items that would be completely safe bets would be the Defibrillator and the Shotgun.

As bad as this sounds, I'm really happy to not have my name on one of those contribution-needed lists. I've seen that way too often lately.

There were four going right away. Soc, how could it possibly be helpful to claim right away? Scum is going to go for that player for the NK, especially since no Survivors in the game had medical training, meaning no doctor unless someone has a medkit.

That's not all bv310's posts, but it's certainly a representative sample IMO. Let's take a look at what's wrong here:

1) What's missing from these posts? Scumhunting, that's what - bv's posts consist almost entirely of Ifrinn defense, item/setup speculation, and a completely unexplained vote ( ) on DeathNote, which he has NEVER explained or taken off.

2) BV's posting re: Ifrinn early on reads strongly of scum defending to me. (Note to self: Look over Ifrinn more closely ASAP.)

3) What the hell is that comment about activity doing in bv's posts? That's the kind of useless comment I STRONGLY associate with scum (especially IIoA-scum).

Vote: bv310

.

More later.

[Tarhalindur]

- Socrates is bugging me, but there's one obvious possible explanation for most of his behavior that I can't discount at this time.

And that explanation is?

I will not elaborate at this time.

- Glork's early play reads strongly of Glork-town. Good to know!

What do you make of his post 352?

Bored town - he's still not acting like I remember Glorkscum acting the last time I total read Glork.

1) What's missing from these posts? Scumhunting, that's what - bv's posts consist almost entirely of Ifrinn defense, item/setup speculation, and a completely unexplained vote ( ) on DeathNote, which he has NEVER explained or taken off.

2) BV's posting re: Ifrinn early on reads strongly of scum defending to me. (Note to self: Look over Ifrinn more closely ASAP.)

3) What the hell is that comment about activity doing in bv's posts? That's the kind of useless comment I STRONGLY associate with scum (especially IIoA-scum).

1) Agreed about the lack of scumhunting, although I think your third quote there contains his explanation for his DN vote. He seems to imply it was a pressure vote - not the strongest reason, but still not quite completely unexplained.

2) I'll need to go back and look over this. I can't say it struck me at the time - I was more concerned with what I felt was a very weak case on Ifrinn, being horribly pushed by people who claimed to agree with a case that hadn't been posted.

3) I didn't think much of it, but fair enough. I'll defer to your experience on that point. So is it all useless comments, or just a specific type of useless comment?

1) If it was a pressure vote, I'd expect him to ACTUALLY PUT PRESSURE on DeathNote - a vote isn't enough to make a pressure vote clear.

2) I await your thoughts with bated breath.

Also on the lines of "reads strongly of scum defense"... now I have to reread YOU. You're effectively defending both Ifrinn and bv310 (the former subtely through that "what I felt was a very weak case on Ifrinn") - two players who pinged my "these players are scumbuddies" radar during my second read - and your tone here is very, very close to what I noticed from bv310 in the early game.

FoS: almightybob

3) More of a gut "know it when I see it", probably based on how it doesn't really advance the game. Why make that post as Town?

There's also one other issue with that activity post, come to think of it... why does bv310 appear so worried about his own activity level? The obvious possibility is that bv310 is active lurking, and I generally don't see that come from a townie.

Final note: HOW long has it been since bv310 has posted? AFAICT, he's not been replaced, yet not posted for at least a week.

Mod: Please prod bv310

[Tarhalindur]

Glrok, could you summarize the thread for me in 30 words or less (but at least 20 words)?

I could. Instead I'll ask why you've read enough to decide that DN and I are town, yet can't be arsed to come up with your own suspicions. So hit me, big boy. Can't decide whether to distance or protect your scumbuddies?

I believe I was on page 3 or 4 when I posted that. I don't know how you got me deciding that DN and you are town out of it, because it's not in there. Also, I would totally distance myself from my scumbuddies.

P.S. DeathNote asking for a sample Townie PM publicly is not suspicious.

Glrok is the only person here I know I've played with and he's never been very hard to read.

Bob's 'slip' wasn't a slip. Honestly, of all the times people accuse each other of "slipping," they're correct less than ten percent of the time. I couldn't count the number of times I typed something but didn't type "assuming he's town" or somesuch, and been accused of "slipping" because of it. It's annoying and inaccurate when directed at me, and I'm willing to give Bob the same benefit of doubt.

Unvote
Vote: Amished

Dude's still scum. Discuss.

Glork, before I say anything else - what are your thoughts on Socrates?

Unvote

for now.

[Tarhalindur]

Glork, before I say anything else - what are your thoughts on Socrates?

Don't know, don't particularly care.

Unvote, Vote: jmj

By my count that's L-1. Claim, JMJ.

Hmm.

I think explaining one of the two reasons I asked this is a bad idea right now, but know that it's related to the reason why I backed off of DeathNote.

The other reason is because I've had a weak gut read that Socrates and Amished are scumbuddies ever since the second read, but have been setting it aside due to aforementioned first reason.

I'll should go back and reread those two again.

I'm voting bv and not dramonic using my logic because bv has been in this game since the beginning, dramonic just recently replaced in. I don't see any contribution by bv except him just going along with the flow of town and not voicing his own opinions. Also, I'm at L-2, your vote glork is the 8th on me going by the latest vote count.

You are at L-2 in a game with more than 10 players alive. That's claim range. Quit stalling.

In fact, have some incentive!

Vote: jmj3000

Now claim in your NEXT POST or die.

[Tarhalindur]

Screw it - anybody else up for trying to run Amished to lynch threshold in >24 hours? I'll switch back to jmj if I need to for lynch, but right now I'd rather trust my gut. Would consider a Socrates vote if not for extenuating circumstances.

Vote: Amished

[Tarhalindur]

Wait, forgot something.

Unvote, Vote: Amished

That's more like it.

[Tarhalindur]

/prodded

Note to mods: I'm honestly not sure I can handle playing this game at the moment - Mind Screw Mafia 4 is proving FAR more mod-intensive than even I expected, and as such I'm finding it nearly impossible to concentrate on a game I was already behind in.

If this doesn't clear up in a few days, I'll have to request replacement. I'd rather not - I don't like to flake and want to continue playing this game - but I don't know if I can avoid it. (This isn't a replacement request yet, but it is a heads-up that one may be coming in the near future.)

More later tonight or tomorrow, when I get a chance to read through the thread.

[Tarhalindur]

Managed to scrounge up enough time for a decent reread, though I'll still be

V/LA until Mind Screw 4 is over

.

Quick thoughts:

- Amished reads weakly town right now given Socrates's flip and his reaction to the STS wagon today, but I REALLY need to find some time to double-check Mafia 94 just in case.
- STS's Amished case at the beginning of the day is bullcrap regardless of Amished's alignment, and definitely deserves a closer look.
- I'd really like to see more cases from AlmightyBob instead of just anti-nameclaim arguments. I'd also really like to see an Ifrinn replacement; my gut is still reading a AlmightyBob/Ifrinn/DeathNote scumteam, though I'm not sure exactly why. (STS might be in here as well.)
- Speaking of that, Socrates's flip puts DeathNote scum firmly in the range of possibility. (I backed off yesterday because I had DeathNote read as confirmed Mason with Socrates.)
- Dramonic's opportunism is scummy as hell... but I don't think he's scum with the grouping above.
- Speaking of that, multiscum is a possibility to keep in mind. It would help explain the different camps of thought I keep seeing in this game and it fits with the doublekill and kill methods. (If we DO have two factions, dramonic is from whichever faction doesn't have the AB/Ifrinn/DN/STS grouping above - Amished might be a part of this group as well.)
- Charlie reads town (if somewhat misguided) right now.
- I support mass name claim on the grounds that I don't see too many drawbacks (the usual problem with potentially outing power roles is partially negated given the item mechanic, and that's *if* names have a mechanical relation to power - also note that if names have a mechanical relation to power then we have a decent shot at confirming townies) and it has the potential to break the game in half. Seems like a good idea to me.

In fact, I'll need to look over who's arguing against mass name claim more closely - there's scum somewhere in that group.

Vote: SteamPoweredShovel

for now (pending more time to read/make cases).