Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

[Glork]

Unvote

I might read the game tonight. I'll definitely have some scumbaggoes handpicked and on a silver platter by the end of the day tomorrow.

[Glork]

Okay, so the first six pages have been a clusterfuck of stupidity.


DeathNote is reasonably likely to be protown (or, at VERY worst, neutral, which I don't really see fitting into this game).

He asked for a sample townie PM, which -- according to the rules -- the scums have. So if DN were scum, I sincerely doubt he would pose this question. It does very little to benefit hypothetical DNscum, and it has enormous potential benefit to the town. This means that DeathNote likely either has a non-standard protown PM, or that he has a standard protown PM but doesn't want anybody else to land in the pitfalls that befell him in the game he linked. Both are equally likely, so any further speculation should probably be pegged as some form of rolefishing. Seriously. Did ANYBODY read his explanation for why he asked for the sample PM? It makes complete, 100% sense.

Charlie basically claimed that he's either vanilla, or anti-town. There's no point in beating around the fucking bush. Any player with half a brain is thinking this, and the people who are going "WTF R U TRYING 2 SAY?!?!" are either morons or scum.

Re: Bile Bomb, and items in general

I don't think there's a great way to handle this, but I think we have one reasonable option.
I think that whomever grabs it must use it that night and claim the action, their target, and any results the following day.
If a scum grabs/destroys it, they will either have to fake a result or claim not to have gotten it. I think that the potential faked results will be EXTREMELY limited, giving us a decent chance to catch them in a lie. And if they stand down, we have nailed at least one scum among the people who grabbed, which is never a bad thing.
If a town grabs it, they have no reason not to comply, and they have no reason to lie to us. In this case, only the most extremely powerful power-roles would shy away from grabbing an item. If you see an item go up for grabs and you're a big angry power role, simply

don't post until 25% of players have posted/grabbed

.

One more thing about items.

Do

NOT

speculate in-thread about what grabbed items might do.

If there are a lot of people who are unfamiliar with L4D/L4D2, it's going to make scum fake-claiming that much more difficult. Once the player has claimed the following day,

THEN

we can discuss whether everything fits. This is one of those rare instances in which less information is BETTER for the town and WORSE for the scums.
Anybody who speculates on the next item in-thread is seriously going to get killed dead.

In other news, Socrates' Post 177 makes my panties wet. I am very much in favor of a wagon on Infrinn.

Major FoS: Tar

for coming to the complete wrong conclusions about everybody.
Charlie wasn't bandwagoned because his speculation was RETARDED AS BALLS for scum to make publicly, and very sensible for a Townie to make.
Again, DeathNote's explanations make perfect sense with what he posted.

*
Anon. As town or scum i have never asked for a sample pm. On one hand its a whole bucket of WIFOM and on the other he could be town. I dont see why tow DN would not have registered "Hm. Maybe this qusetion shouldnt be asked in public and i should pm the mod." considering he has done it before too. On the other hand why would scum DN do it? Town DN has nothing to gain from it imo. Scum DN has meta up his sleeve. But then why would DN have intentionally sabotage himself in the first place in another game prior to this as you say "just for the lulz" Its just head desk all over. As of the moment I would not like DN to be lynched but if he is consistent with his scumminess (because this is what i consider it to be) then i would like him lynched somewhere in the future provided he is not given a PR.

I need to read over the nine pages and compare with my other half.
*

Keep in mind that YOU are not ANYBODY ELSE. I could see the average player asking the question publicly as town. I could only see the most extreme idiots asking that question publicly as scum. DeathNote is not complete fucking moron, so he is very likely to be protown.

Sorry, but your defense here holds ZERO weight.


Pom is very likely protown. Her 217 is good, especially in relation to the other game I played with her. I feel like I should give Pom a cookie or something.

Major FoS: Izzy

You don't lurk for 9 pages then say the game is "irritating." Contribute, die, or get yourself replaced.

Anyways, people I'd like to see some goddamn contribution from:

CSL

- 3 posts, no content

Replaced by

Glork

who still hasn't shown his/her face

Yeah, fuck me for having a life. That said, I have liked bob's posting so far. Not the activity thing (which never hurts, but isn't really a protown tell), but something resonates well with his posts so far. "Protown by gut," I suppose.

[Glork]

Oh, and

Vote: Ifrinn

[Glork]

By the way, IIoA is still the most overrated "scumtell" in Mafia. Virtually every single mafia game has protown players who manage to post while failing to provide analysis. IIoA can be valid in certain specific metas, but as a general tell it's trash.

[Glork]

Okay, so the first six pages have been a clusterfuck of stupidity.

Major FoS: Izzy

You don't lurk for 9 pages then say the game is "irritating." Contribute, die, or get yourself replaced.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I wasn't lurking. I had other priorities that meant I couldn't contribute for several days (which I made a post about). I read through the game to catch up. My comment that the game is irritating was no different to yours calling it a "clusterfuck of stupidity" after reading through it. Will you "Major FoS" yourself for doing the exact same thing?

I just replaced into the game on Saturday night. Also, the difference between your post and my post is that you posted a useless one-liner, while I potsed actual CONTENT. Don't give me this bullshit.

[Glork]

I don't really get how Glork came to the conclusion that "I've clamined vanilla or anti-town" part. Mostly on the anti-town part. Aside from that, I think his long post is decent.

Unvote

If you believe that the town as a whole is powerless, and if you are protown, then it stands to reason that you have no powers.

[Glork]

Brilliant deduction there, Glork. Now how about explaining the anti-town part?

Obviously you'll claim to be protown (and thus vanilla), but I certainly won't take that claim at face value.

I currently *believe* that you are protown, but that's a far cry from you being confirmed as being protown.

[Glork]

Meh, why not.

Grab: Flashlight

[Glork]

Also, it should go without saying that nobody should try to grab more than one item in a given day. If they can't use both items in the same night, and they get nightkilled, we probably lose the unused item.

[Glork]

You're right, Bob. I should have read the rules more carefully. My apologies.

[Glork]

Starbuck replaces Fongoid.

Francis

: I'm getting tired of these damn vampires!

Bill

: They're ZOMBIES, Francis.

The Fifth Vote Count of Day One

Ifrinn (6): Dr.Cyanide, Socrates, Anon, DocPotter, thatguy00, Glork
Pomegranate (1):

xofelf

DeathNote (4): Ifrinn, almightybob, bv310, Tarhalindur
bv310 (1): Pomegranate

Not voting (6): DeathNote, jmj3000, Starbuck, thatguy00, Charlie, Amished

You have thatguy00 listed twice, and DizzyIzzy isn't listed at all.

Unvote, Vote: DizzyIzzy

I don't like Ifrinn's play, but I don't feel so strongly anymore about him being protown. He/They might just be (an) idiot(s).

Dizzy is probably scum, though, and should be lynched posthaste.

[Glork]

Also, having re-read the rules, I disagree with my own earlier comments about Item Grabbing. For some reason I thought every item was inherently one-shot, when that is clearly not the case. So yeah, I'm retarded.

[Glork]

This is not a vote count. Just a line I wanna quote.

Ellis

: My buddy Keith tried camping out on top of a building once. He was shooting crows, but the police were too busy tear gassin' him to ask what he was doin' up there. He screamed for an entire year every single time when he opened his eyes! Oh man! At first it was funny, then it just got sad, but then it got funny again! Oh man!

If you don't laugh, you're dead to me. MODKILLLLZ. J/k. But seriously.

That's cool.

Now, could you please fix the most recent vote count as per this post?


And like Starbuck said, update the playerlist.

*cracks the whip*

DOOONE.


Izzy and DocPotter: I don't understand the rationale behind not having a vote on somebody as of Page TWELVE of a game. Can you seriously not find anybody worth voting for at this stage of the day?

[Glork]

Glork: I've had a vote on someone for about 250 of the 290 posts in the game so far.

So why remove it after 10+ pages? Leave it or put it elsewhere, but make sure we know where your top suspicions lie at all times. No protown player should ever object to that.

[Glork]

Probably should have posted this earlier, but V/LA from yesterday through tomorrow. Doesn't look like I'm missing too much though.

[Glork]

I'm back as of yesterday, just can't seem to get into the game so far.

Unvote, Vote: jmj

I've only skimmed over the last couple of pages, but am willing to jump this wagon.
Will re-examine Izzy later.

[Glork]

I've only skimmed over the last couple of pages, but am willing to jump this wagon.

You're jumping on a wagon you've only skimmed?

Saying I've only skimmed the last couple of pages does not mean I don't understand the gist of why people suspect jmj. Plus, nobody seems to care that Izzy is scum, and I'm currently too dis-interested to make a focused case.

P.S., DeathNote is still protown and you really need to stop voting for him.

[Glork]

I don't understand the gist of why people suspect jmj.

If you look at my Post 343 under the "On jmj" part at the bottom, you will find why I found jmj enough to vote for.

I said "does NOT mean I don't understand the gist." I do understand it and placed my vote on jmj because of it.

And for the record, jmj's weasel-wording in 361 is bad.



I actually think I like an Amished lynch better. I had mentally flagged his ~Page10 interaction with thatguy as scummy, and possibly distancing. His pile-on to the jmj-wagon is pretty much the definition of scum wanting to hop on the fresh tasty new bandwagon. Like honestly, I can't even decide if Amished is trying to bus jmj or hop on an easy lynch, but the language and timing of post screams "I WANT IT TO BE KNOWN THAT I MADE POINTS AGAINST THIS PERSON WHO IS VERY CLEARLY THE BEST LYNCH CANDIDATE OF THE DAY."

Unvote, Vote: Amished

I don't know. I'm getting cold feet about jmj because he appears to be the default D1 deadline lynch, and Amished's vote looks bad to me regardless of jmj's alignment. Amished's play just doesn't sit well with me.


This game has been very disjointed and there have been enough annoying distractions that I'm having a hard time pinning down a list of likely scums. I have, however, picked out a few players who are on my "Likely Protown" list:
Tar
Almightybob
DeathNote
Charlie

You may note that Pom's not on this list, even though I called her "very likely protown" in an earlier post. Long story short, I changed my mind and wish to reserve judgment pending further content from her.

[Glork]

Plus, nobody seems to care that Izzy is scum, and I'm currently too dis-interested to make a focused case.

This is the mantra of scum who can't get a wagon they've decided to push going.

Not really. You obviously don't understand how extremely fucking lazy I am.

This game has been very disjointed and there have been enough annoying distractions that I'm having a hard time pinning down a list of likely scums. I have, however, picked out a few players who are on my "Likely Protown" list:
Tar
Almightybob
DeathNote
Charlie

You may note that Pom's not on this list, even though I called her "very likely protown" in an earlier post. Long story short, I changed my mind and wish to reserve judgment pending further content from her.

Questions:

Which of Tar or Nelly is more responsible for this town read?

Why DeathNote?

Does the fact that Charlie's essentially dropped off the map for about a week affect this read or not, and why?

Tar. The only thing that really gives me pause for concern about Tar is actually his "yay, Glork is town!" comment. Nelly didn't give me an impression either way other than that he was new and stupid.

I've explained why DN is town at least twice already. His PM comment is something that is reasonable to make as town, and completely and utterly fucking retarded to make as scum. His explanation for the PM request makes sense, too. I don't buy the whole "well you only mentioned it in brief and then took several pages to fill out your story" crap that was levvied against him. DN is town. If I had to stake my life on one (other) person's alignment in this game, it'd be DN-town.

No. His 309 rings as someone genuinely trying to get discussion going, and he posted 72 hours of V/LA. Charlie is probably town.

Glrok, could you summarize the thread for me in 30 words or less (but at least 20 words)?

I could. Instead I'll ask why you've read enough to decide that DN and I are town, yet can't be arsed to come up with your own suspicions. So hit me, big boy. Can't decide whether to distance or protect your scumbuddies?

I'm not included in the item grab, I don't think. I got the Bile, so I don't know if I'm allowed to get the guns too.

Are you fucking KIDDING me?

First, why the FUCK would you post that you picked up an item? If you're protown, that makes you an IMMEDIATE target for the scums.

Second, why the fuck would you try to grab two items? What protown benefit does having two items give you, other than making you a huge fucking target for scums?

Unvote, Vote: bv

(though Amished is still scum)

[Glork]

EBWOP: BV, if you are protown and don't get lynched today, DO NOT USE ANY ITEMS YOU RECIEVE. If you're protown, there is a VERY LARGE CHANCE that the scums will (at least try to) kill you, destroying any item you use tonight.

[Glork]

Glrok, could you summarize the thread for me in 30 words or less (but at least 20 words)?

I could. Instead I'll ask why you've read enough to decide that DN and I are town, yet can't be arsed to come up with your own suspicions. So hit me, big boy. Can't decide whether to distance or protect your scumbuddies?

I believe I was on page 3 or 4 when I posted that. I don't know how you got me deciding that DN and you are town out of it, because it's not in there. Also, I would totally distance myself from my scumbuddies.

P.S. DeathNote asking for a sample Townie PM publicly is not suspicious.

Glrok is the only person here I know I've played with and he's never been very hard to read.

Bob's 'slip' wasn't a slip. Honestly, of all the times people accuse each other of "slipping," they're correct less than ten percent of the time. I couldn't count the number of times I typed something but didn't type "assuming he's town" or somesuch, and been accused of "slipping" because of it. It's annoying and inaccurate when directed at me, and I'm willing to give Bob the same benefit of doubt.

Unvote
Vote: Amished

Dude's still scum. Discuss.

[Glork]

Pom, who are your top three suspects? Why? How plausible do think it is that they are paired together?

[Glork]

Glork, before I say anything else - what are your thoughts on Socrates?

Don't know, don't particularly care.

Unvote, Vote: jmj

By my count that's L-1. Claim, JMJ.

[Glork]

I'm voting bv and not dramonic using my logic because bv has been in this game since the beginning, dramonic just recently replaced in. I don't see any contribution by bv except him just going along with the flow of town and not voicing his own opinions. Also, I'm at L-2, your vote glork is the 8th on me going by the latest vote count.

You're right, I thought it was 9 to lynch.

That said, day ends in like 48 hours. You should claim anyway, unless you feel like becoming the "default" lynch. If you don't claim in your next post, you will be lynched for stalling.

[Glork]

@Glork: My vote on jmj is due to the fact that I think he's scum and needs to be lynched. I'm advocating for that.

re my interaction with thatguy00: I was trying to figure out what the hell he was thinking. I can't figure it out without asking him.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I know that you piled onto the wagon because you want him lynched. What I'm saying is that the manner, timing, and language with which you piled onto the wagon is uber hella scummy.

Also, your interaction with thatguy is scummy. You said you are "positive" he is scum, yet you baby him and now you're saying you were just trying to figure figure out wtf he was saying.

Glork's 464 (asking Pom for top suspects, and *pairings*) is intentionally leading and scummy.

Yep. Asking a completely open-ended question is leading, and trying to figure out other players' suspicions is scummy. Try coming up with an OMGUS reason that makes an iota of sense.

@Glork: Since I'm "still scum"; what do you make of me voting for the person that you just put to L-1? And doing so before a bandwagon really built steam while you hop on at the end for a claim? I haven't specifically checked, but I didn't see you talking about jmj much just from memory.

[Glork]

(In other news, some food for thought: There is an above-average chance that Steam-Powered Shovel is also scum.

[Glork]

Okay, that's what I thought. I mean, there are 18 alive, so it should be 10 to lynch, not 9. My guess is that the mod accidentally put 9 in a vote count, and everyone went off of that.

[Glork]

It doesn't change the fact that, for somebody who posted this:

I'll take a look at jmj; but I'm positive that thatguy is scum

you've done an amazing job of NOT trying to get him lynched. If I were certain that somebody were scum, I would do everything within my power to convince the rest of the town to lynch that player.

This tells me that your "suspicions" are extremely overblown at best, and more likely donwright

insincere

.



Regarding my questions to Pom:
1) I don't understand how "do you think your top suspects are likely to be scumbuddies" implies any kind of knowledge about the game. I would love for you to explain this.
2) I was trying to get a feel for how critically Pom thinks about player suspicions in early-game. Her response was appropriate, and it gave me the information I wanted to know.
3) Regarding the "discredit" point, I don't see how that's relevant. Saying that two players could PLAUSIBLY be scum together does not mean that they are either both town or both scum. There is no avenue for discredit.

[Glork]

The other reason is because I've had a weak gut read that Socrates and Amished are scumbuddies ever since the second read, but have been setting it aside due to aforementioned first reason.

I'll should go back and reread those two again.

Well now I don't know but I'm somewhat interested... I'm making a note-to-self to review Socrates' play.

[Glork]

Meh.

Unvote, Vote: Amished

[Glork]

EBWOP: Actually, with the "you may quote your role PM" thing, I'm guessing the scums were given fakeclaims in advance. I'm not sure that claims are going to help us here.

I will leave my vote on Amished for now. I may switch back to JMJ.... I am largely undecided.

[Glork]

Yeah, thinking on it some more, roleclaims will probably hold zero weight one way or another. I'd give like 95% odds that the scums were given fake roleclaims, and I'd give greater than 60% odds that at least one of the eight main survivors is a fake roleclaim, too.

I'm not going to speculate on potential rolenames on that 5% chance the mods fucked this thing up hardcore, but I will state that I can name at least 15 distinct names across both games. There are at least 2-3 more unnamed characters I could viably see as being in the game, too.

[Glork]

Part of me is really itching for a mass nameclaim.

[Glork]

]1) If Pom is town (which is my current read of her) then it's setting up a way for her to... trip herself up unnecessarily (not the wording I want, but you get the drift, hopefully). It forces her to look for connections when there might not even be any (and still have both be scum). Or look for connections between town and scum/town and town; both of which are (obviously) a waste of time since one of the pairing is town (and then could be attacked for her attack on a townie by tying them together)

Now you're changing stories. You went from talking about me "having inside information" to me "trying to trip up Pom." What exactly did you mean when you said "having inside knowledge," because this has nothing to do with it.

3) Very true, but it also sets up a mental point about a connection. I rarely remember anything that significant throughout a game other than one or two major points and live in the moment. However, if I'm questioned about my own read (specifically pairings) I tend to keep that closer to the forefront of my mind. If one of those pairings ends up town it will affect my read on the other player. So it would both create doubt in Pom's mind (as it would in mine). Also, I've seen somewhere that somebody was attacked for a before lynch pairing during the next day; which allows an alley for having Pom (or whoever) seen in a worse light for being wrong about a pairing. It's a subtle mental note that comes up more than I think people like to admit.

This entire point is beyond ridiculous. You basically concede my point then say "but you're still trying to trick Pom." Plus, if I were to try to pigeonhole Pom into a stance and then use it to attack her, all she'd have to do is say "but you yourself asked me about it" and I would have nothing. Any malicious intent would be snuffed out by the fact that I asked Pom to do the very thing I would hypothetically attack her for later. It is not viable, and it is not sensible to attempt.

Regarding jmj/thatguy and my stance towards them: Since I've said that both are obv-scum; how do you reconcile your willingness to lynch jmj (with me on the wagon for a long time) with your position that I'm scum? If I were partners with anybody, I'd want them alive; regardless of alignment? If I were truly scum, then wouldn't thatguy/me be a better place to look for scum with my supposed connection there rather than jmj?

I'm going to answer this the same way I did earlier.

[Glork]

Hence why only part of me is itching for it. :/

[Glork]

Based on the game mechanics and probable setup, I'm willing to bet that a mass nameclaim cannot harm us.

[Glork]

Recruited? To what?

[Glork]

Charlie, for balance purposes, there's going to be more than 8 townies in an 18 person game.

I'm not going to speculate on potential rolenames on that 5% chance the mods fucked this thing up hardcore, but I will state that I can name at least 15 distinct names across both games. There are at least 2-3 more unnamed characters I could viably see as being in the game, too.

Left 4 Dead canon extends beyond the four playable Survivors in L4D and L4D2.


I'd like to mass nameclaim and see if anybody is completely unable to come up with a character. If everybody checks out just fine, we throw the whole nameclaim out the window. Like I said, if the scums were provided with safeclaims, there's a rather good possibility that at least one of the eight PCs is a safeclame.

[Glork]

If no one reaches the needed votes for a lynch by the time of deadline, there will be no lynch at all that day.

Let's get to lynching, folks. JMJ is not the play, but there are definitely other possibilities.

Save the name/massclaiming discussion for D2.

[Glork]

jmj gets to L-1, claims what is essentially Vanilla Townie, and everyone believes it and doesn't want to lynch anymore?
Did I miss something? At what point did people start abandoning wagons because of a VT claim?

That's funny, because only ONE person unvoted, and Furry was never voting for JMJ to begin with. So how did "everybody" jump off the wagon?

[Glork]

At the very lesat, the role PM isn't made up. Either it is JMJ's role PM, or it was a safeclaim given to JMJ (by the mod, a scumbuddy, whatever).

Now I know I said the scums very likely have fakeclaims, but my gut just says that the claim rings true. I have no "reasoning" behind it. I think JMJ's play has been poor, but I don't think that I want him lynched today. I would still much, much, MUCH rather have Amished lynched today, and I'm disappointed that just about nobody else seems to be acknowledging his existence, much less his blatant summiness.

[Glork]

Now I know I said the scums very likely have fakeclaims, but my gut just says that the claim rings true. I have no "reasoning" behind it.

I'm sure you can imagine why I wouldn't be impressed by that. You were voting him before his claim, so presumably you thought he was scum then. There's nothing in the claim that would make me change my mind.

To be completely frank, I couldn't give a flying fuck if you're impressed or not. I changed my mind. If that makes me scummy to you, well I guess I'll just have to bear that cross myself. But just between you and me, I think I just *might* pull through.

[Glork]

Deadline: April 1st at 7:00PM.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: 32

Deadline: April 1st at 7:00PM.

Don't you mean 27 hours?

Also, me being snarky is a nulltell, though I expect you'll want to hear that from somebody else.

[Glork]

Also, I royally fucked up quoting the mod there... but you get the idea.

[Glork]

Amished lynch >>>>>>> Bob lynch

[Glork]

Glork, what do you plan to do if you don't get your Amished wagon in the next ~18 hours?

I guess it depends on how other things shake down. But I can tell you're fishing for a wagon that you don't think I buy into, and that gives you bigtime minus points.

[Glork]

current vote count by my tally....

DeathNote (2): Ifrinn, bv310
jmj3000 (6): Starbuck, DocPotter, Amished, thatguy00, Pomegranate, almightybob
almightybob (6): DeathNote, Steam-Powered Shovel, Furry, Socrates, Izzy, dramonic
Amished (2): Glork, Tarhalindur
Charlie (1): jmj3000,

Not voting (1): Charlie


Charlie needs to vote
A few other people need to weigh in
Almightybob needs to claim

[Glork]

I will also submit that if Bob is town, JMJ is definitely town. JMJ as scum would have voted for Bob, no questions asked. Instead, he went after someone with virtually no heat on him -- Charlie. This tells me that JMJ is following his suspicions, not trying to merely save his own ass.

[Glork]

Why would I bother to provoke you as scum?

Theoretically, if you are scum and Bob is town, you're trying to push me towards his wagon because you'd rather see a mislynch than a town lynch.

Personally, I'd rather see a scum lynch than either.

What exactly is your opinion of Amished to this point? I want every positive and negative you can think of.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Er, you'd rather see a mislynch than no lynch. Whatever.

[Glork]

I would like to vote for the infected!
Who is infected?

Hey. Hey.

You're not funny.

[Glork]

By the by, Glrok, nice work in getting Socrates to make your case against Amished for you. Real smooth.

That would actually make sense if I hadn't already made multiple valid points against Amished.

But if you want to defend your scumbuddy to the bitter end, I'd be more than glad to string you up tomorrow.

[Glork]

By the by, Glrok, nice work in getting Socrates to make your case against Amished for you. Real smooth.

That would actually make sense if I hadn't already made multiple valid points against Amished.

I'll admit that, rereading your posts, my initial impression that you had barely put forward a case was not entirely accurate. I still find Socrates' last post more convincing than what you've said though.

So what specifically is stopping you from moving your vote over?

[Glork]

'tain't gonna matter. Amished is scum.

[Glork]

FoS: Starbuck

[Glork]

FoSing someone for contributing to a no lynch is kinda hypocritical considering you derailed the best wagon we had earlier today.

That's not at all hypocritical. I am trying to contribute to a lynch. JMJ has zero shot of being lynched now, and Starbuck seems content to settle for no lynch.

No Lynch D1 is the worst thing that could possibly happen.

[Glork]

I get a bah post.


So, um.


Bah. Go town. Etc.

[Glork]

Alright, where do I even begin?

First thing's first... I was lolling so hard when I saw scum kill Dizzy... then saw Starbuck protect Dizzy... then saw bv310 redirect Starbuck. Oh man. I was sitting my room and every ten minutes something else would develop and I'd start cracking up. That was fucking hilarious.

You can find the Graveyard topic here. Many players' thoughts are there, but here's a few things:

1) This was just the laziest town I've ever seen. I'm thoroughly disappointed with the effort put forth. The no lynches were just absolutely ridiculous and probably played a huge part in the loss.

2) Socrates dropping so many power role tells on Day One really hurt the town, because scum immediately picked up on it. He investigated Ifrinn/crypto Night One and that would've crippled the Crescendo Infected on D2. Unfortunately the questions he asked and his behavior gave him away quite quickly.

3) I can't believe Amished didn't get lynched. Seriously, how many times did he have a wagon on him and it got derailed? Unbelievable.

4) The items that WEREN'T destroyed by scum were wasted by town. PS my favorite quote from the Graveyard QT:

I think from this point on whenever anyone asks for examples of what is good play, im just going to jesture frustratedly at this game and say "just do the opposite of everything you see past page 30 in this game"

5) ReaperCharlie should've claimed he got the item instead of claiming he didn't. That was an unwinnable situation.

6) If there was a day with no item drops, an ammo pack and a battery pack were supposed to drop and if the Flashlight/Defib wielder grabbed the batteries or the Shotgun wielder grabbed the ammo pack, they'd get a recharge.

More thoughts to come later.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well. I'm honestly too disgusted by the town's play to make a post, except to point out one thing.


When

TWO PEOPLE

(Glork and Steam-Powered Shovel) push two DIFFERENT lynches which both fail at end-of-day, and then, the VERY FOLLOWING NIGHTS, EACH OF THOSE PEOPLE GET NIGHTKILLED, something's going on. No townsperson bothered to do an OUNCE of nightkill analysis except SPS, and it led him directly to AmishedScum.


Fun fact: Since I've come back to MafiaScum, no town has won a single game. Seems players are just worse overall than they were a year ago. Back to basics, please.

[Glork]

BV, I have no fucking words for you. Seriously, you fucked this game with your lurking and you basically had no idea wtf was going on. Thanks for making the town lose. Do me a favor and never join any game I am in again.


SK, I am pissed off. This last day was horrid due to the fact that we were waiting on you to catch up. I had a pretty good town read on you, which is why I wanted your opinions and words. I only voted you to give you some pressure that was it.

All I"m getting out of this post is a bunch of deflection. Care to shoulder some of the responsibility for the loss yourself, considering that for the first SIXTY PAGES OF THE GAME, you never voted for a single scumbag, and actively prevented TWO Amished lynches?




That's right. I'm bustin' chops. Too many people blame others when they lose. Say "I fucked up" and learn from your mistakes. Nobody's going to be able to grow as a mafia player if they don't learn to do that.

[Glork]

Also, that's really fucking easy for you to say after you were lynched on DAY 1.

That's funny, because I seem to remember pegging AmishedScum D1, then getting

NIGHTKILLED NIGHT ONE

.


At any rate, yes, I know you said "I screwed up on Amished." From my perspective, though, you screwed up on a lot of things.

[Glork]

Here, Starbuck. I'm just going to leave these here for you:

I actually think I like an Amished lynch better. I had mentally flagged his ~Page10 interaction with thatguy as scummy, and possibly distancing. His pile-on to the jmj-wagon is pretty much the definition of scum wanting to hop on the fresh tasty new bandwagon. Like honestly, I can't even decide if Amished is trying to bus jmj or hop on an easy lynch, but the language and timing of post screams "I WANT IT TO BE KNOWN THAT I MADE POINTS AGAINST THIS PERSON WHO IS VERY CLEARLY THE BEST LYNCH CANDIDATE OF THE DAY."

Unvote, Vote: Amished

Unvote
Vote: Amished

Dude's still scum. Discuss.

It doesn't change the fact that, for somebody who posted this:

I'll take a look at jmj; but I'm positive that thatguy is scum

you've done an amazing job of NOT trying to get him lynched. If I were certain that somebody were scum, I would do everything within my power to convince the rest of the town to lynch that player.

This tells me that your "suspicions" are extremely overblown at best, and more likely donwright

insincere

.

]1) If Pom is town (which is my current read of her) then it's setting up a way for her to... trip herself up unnecessarily (not the wording I want, but you get the drift, hopefully). It forces her to look for connections when there might not even be any (and still have both be scum). Or look for connections between town and scum/town and town; both of which are (obviously) a waste of time since one of the pairing is town (and then could be attacked for her attack on a townie by tying them together)

Now you're changing stories. You went from talking about me "having inside information" to me "trying to trip up Pom." What exactly did you mean when you said "having inside knowledge," because this has nothing to do with it.

3) Very true, but it also sets up a mental point about a connection. I rarely remember anything that significant throughout a game other than one or two major points and live in the moment. However, if I'm questioned about my own read (specifically pairings) I tend to keep that closer to the forefront of my mind. If one of those pairings ends up town it will affect my read on the other player. So it would both create doubt in Pom's mind (as it would in mine). Also, I've seen somewhere that somebody was attacked for a before lynch pairing during the next day; which allows an alley for having Pom (or whoever) seen in a worse light for being wrong about a pairing. It's a subtle mental note that comes up more than I think people like to admit.

This entire point is beyond ridiculous. You basically concede my point then say "but you're still trying to trick Pom." Plus, if I were to try to pigeonhole Pom into a stance and then use it to attack her, all she'd have to do is say "but you yourself asked me about it" and I would have nothing. Any malicious intent would be snuffed out by the fact that I asked Pom to do the very thing I would hypothetically attack her for later. It is not viable, and it is not sensible to attempt.

Regarding jmj/thatguy and my stance towards them: Since I've said that both are obv-scum; how do you reconcile your willingness to lynch jmj (with me on the wagon for a long time) with your position that I'm scum? If I were partners with anybody, I'd want them alive; regardless of alignment? If I were truly scum, then wouldn't thatguy/me be a better place to look for scum with my supposed connection there rather than jmj?

I'm going to answer this the same way I did earlier.

'tain't gonna matter. Amished is scum.

FoSing someone for contributing to a no lynch is kinda hypocritical considering you derailed the best wagon we had earlier today.

That's not at all hypocritical. I am trying to contribute to a lynch. JMJ has zero shot of being lynched now, and Starbuck seems content to settle for no lynch.

No Lynch D1 is the worst thing that could possibly happen.

[Glork]

And I just pointed out that if you're going to call me out, get your facts straight. I died early (I was ALSO roleblocked by scum N1) because I was an enormous threat to the scums.

[Glork]

Well no, you certainly didn't. It was a mass collective of mistakes. The town as a whole played poorly.

Like I said, no town has won a completed game I've played since I came back to MafiaScum. It's not even a game-wide thing. It's a site-wide issue right now, IMHO.

[Glork]

Like I said, no town has won a completed game I've played since I came back to MafiaScum.

How many of those games have you been Town? I only ask because a correlation that strong implies causation.

Five of six, I think?

One game we lost in part because our Vigilante Vigged four townspersons (and I had two scums nailed D1, ran up rivaling wagons on BOTH scums, but a late-day replacement pushed literally a last-minute switch on a townie).

In another game, I replaced in during night, correctly identified both scums during my readthrough, but the town lost that very night, so I never had a chance to actually post.

In a third game, I replaced in late in the game, and identified five players who were most likely scum, four of which were the last scumbags. I got one of them lynched, got immediately nightkilled, and watched the town botch the last two days.

Here, I never really got a chance to do anything. I admittedly didn't have an outrageously good D1, but I had easily locked onto a very obvious scumbag, and clearly made myself the biggest pain in the ass for the scums, considering you guys blocked me and the other group nightkilled me.


And then I had a couple of bad games, which the town lost. And I just won a game as scum.



So, no. I'm pretty certain I'm not the "causation" of towns losing games. I've actually had pinpoint accuracy in most of the games I've replaced into, but I've had to suffer watching through towns who don't listen to me and then blow games while I catch scums and get killed and watch all frustrated. That's partly why I've been so incredulous towards players lately. I'm honestly getting very sick of losing games because people insist that they know better than me, when I've proven time and time again that I'm still one of the most accruate townies in mafia altogether.

[Glork]

Actually, I just read back, and in one of those "couple of bad games," OpenSource Mafia, I spent a large portion of D1 switching between Pom (scum) and Iece (scum), and I got nightkilled N1. So add that to the list of games in which Glork found scum, got killed immediately, and watched the town lose. (I was a Death Miller in that game, so ignore the "Guilty" result in the player list.)

[Glork]

So... what happened this game where your only attack on scum was an RVS vote on Exalt and you lived for two days?

I said I had a couple of bad games. I don't profess to be perfect. But empirical evidence shows that I'm more accurate more often than most players. California Trilogy III was an atrocious game from my own perspective (although Thesp seems to think that I played okay). Crimson King was the second bad game I had in mind (although it's worth noting that immediately after dying, at the dawn of D3, I latched onto RECK in the graveyard QuickTopic).

[Glork]

EBWOP: At any rate, Amished, I wasn't trying to go out of my way to justify myself, but Bob asked whether my presence in said games was a potential cause, and I explained why it probably is not.