ZOMBIES! - Zombies take over for the win!!!

[Pie_is_good]

Well look, I'm not about to be reading the thread any time soon, so let me just start by doing some dot-connecting for you all:

-The mechanic of the game strongly suggests that the cult can grow indefinitely. That is, it's not like once we lynch the cultmaster, the cult loses their ability to recruit. That means that

we cannot win this game on lynchings alone

. Which further implies that we have at least one vig on our team, with likely even more killing roles (SK, maybe?) out there somewhere. I expect all of you to be killing, every night. Even in a non-cult game it's a good idea. In a cult game, it's basically mandatory.

-It would be just super if one of you could recap the thread for me, especially who's claimed what, etc. I may read a little of it, but I typically find day 1's uninformative and 38 pages is quite a bit.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, appreciative FoS: Everyone unvoting me. It's not like the act of getting replaced should be making Tate any LESS scummy in your eyes. I certainly wouldn't be affording you the same courtesy. I would probably make this a vote on Cooldog (I found his post to be the weirdest of the lot) but I should probably know more about the game before I get with the votin'.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, Yosarian and elvis_knits: hey sup?

[Pie_is_good]

Nice of you to try and throw suspicion at everyone else, though.

You say that as though it's not the entire point of the game we're currently playing.

[Pie_is_good]

I know you're just getting to know me, but it's not odd at all because I am great and make good points all the time.

[Pie_is_good]

The only real response from you today is when Pie replaced in, where you said you were going to get your ass in gear. Why does Pie coming in make that happen?

As we've previously discussed, I'm pretty great.

[Pie_is_good]

Can you explain this? How many cultists do you think there are right now?

I haven't the slightest idea how many cultists there are right now. If I had to guess, I'd say we got 1 zombie (based on the flavor of the opening post) and an SK (so that the game wouldn't just end if we got lucky D1). But that's not founded on much. I'm saying that the cult is probably growing by 1 member/night (as cults do) and so we should be viggin' to try and keep up with them. Plus it's always good strategy for the vig to kill every night, although most people don't realize that.

I was voting tate simply because he wasn't answering questions. Especially since he replaced out, this is very strongly indicating its a personality thing, and that tate would rather screw over the mod and players than suck it up and answer whatever the town asked. Regardless, if you adopt the same stance (Which I'm almost positive you won't), you'll find our votes returning most quickly.

So you didn't actually think Tate was scum, you were just voting for him because you didn't like him?

[Pie_is_good]

5 pages into the reread, here's my current heirarchy: (people get bumped a level up from 0 for doing something towny and down for doing something scummy)

ODDin, Wolf
0: bv, iLord, ABR, evilsnail, Reckoner, Diamond, Yos, CMAR, Kmd, McGriddle, McZombie, MrSuave
Zazier, manho, WRP, bv310, Starbuck, Cooldog

[Pie_is_good]

@iLord: every cult works differently. I hope you're right. And two cult leaders would just be absurd; the town would have no chance at winning. Every townie's goal would just be to get recruited by the winning cult.

And your plan to lynch everyone who you can't read/doesn't let you read them is absurd. Not scummily absurd, but absurd nonetheless.

[Pie_is_good]

We wagoned Tate for referencing the sample PM?

Really?

[Pie_is_good]

7 pages:

Zombie Mafia:

ODDin, Wolf, iLord, Kmd
0: ABR, evilsnail, Reckoner, Diamond, CMAR, McGriddle, McZombie, MrSuave, animorph
Zazier, manho, WRP, bv310, Starbuck, Cooldog
Yos


Taking a break for LOST, which I like better than all of you.

[Pie_is_good]

Yos: That's interesting. You're saying the cult can recruit, but we just need to cut them off at the head to win. I could buy that theory.

iLord: Fair enough; I missed Farside confirming the PR mechanic. As for voting lurkers, that is a matter of policy that's not worth debating (hence why I called you wrong but not scummy), but I just felt the need to register disagreement.

[Pie_is_good]

ABR sounds

real

mad.

[Pie_is_good]

8 pages in, I'd be voting for Yos. Perhaps it's just easier for me to say this with 20/20 hindsight, but McGriddle seems more like an idiot than like scum. I feel like Yos is better than the case he's making here.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, Starbuck needs to chill. I'm contributing more than most people here. In fact, I'm contributing more than everyone because everything I say is great.

[Pie_is_good]

10 in: would also get behind a manho wagon. Not liking any of the mainstream wagons at this point; they seem OMGUSy.

[Pie_is_good]

On 15, my reactions:
-I would be all over Cooldog at this point. Sure, he's the VI type, but the best tell on a VI type is whether or not he overreacts to pressure (which he did).
-Would also get behind a manho wagon. Everything he says comes across as extremely forced and overcalculated.
-Less suspicious of Yos than a few days ago but still keeping an eye on him.
-Someone asked me what I thought of the ABR wagon (today), so I've been trying to keep an eye on him, but I've found his posting so far unremarkable (i.e. nothing scummy).
-iLord seems like a pretty okay dude.
-Starbuck is, like, a constant downer.

[Pie_is_good]

Further:
-would like to add Reckoner to my list of Pretty Okay Dudes
-McGriddle is clearly an idiot and I don't blame you all for lynching him.

[Pie_is_good]

(Ending for the night through 20)
-getting actively town vibes from ABR now.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh shit we're under deadline! Didn't realize that.

MOD:

If the deadline is currently 21, can we make it 28? I'd like a chance to finish reading and get into the swing of things a bit more.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh, simulpost. Nevermind.

[Pie_is_good]

Further thoughts from recent game developments:
-@Cooldog: The fact that you've clung to the "I always play like this excuse" ever since someone else gave it to you is part of what's making me suspect you in the first place.

-TONS of this game has consisted of OMGUSy bitchfighting. I have to think some of this is perpetuated by scum, who is correctly realizing how unproductive it is. Unfortunately, I don't have a meta on almost any of you, but if I did I would be highly suspicious of the people who have been engaging in bitchfighting but are generally above it. Maybe one of you who knows this crowd better can help me out.

[Pie_is_good]

In fact, I'm feeling all cavalier. I'll go for the quad post and

Vote: Cooldog

. Subject to change if something interesting happens in the reread. Again: at this point I would also be down to wagon manho or Yos, so if anyone would rather do that let me know and I'll join in the fun.

[Pie_is_good]

@iLord: I have bv down as slightly scummier than average, although not (yet) enough for me to advocate a wagon. Why did you name those two - are bv and manho somehow linked?

@Yos: Right, I get that. It was the fact that you found the OMGUS suspicious that seemed a bit suspect - it seemed to me to be pretty blatantly OMGUSy and you're easily experienced enough to recognize that.

As long as we're on the subject, my other quibble with you is that you're spending most of day 1 questioning other people about their suspicions rather than stating your own. I would expect town-Yos to be leading the charge much more than that.

[Pie_is_good]

Manho's posts came off as forced, bv's not so much.

I don't find lurking scummy. It hurts the town, but in my experience lurkers aren't scum any more than average. That said, I do make a point to scale scumminess by posting frequency (e.g. I would count a strike against manho much more seriously than a strike against ABR, since manho has many fewer posts). Point being, my suspicion of manho has nothing to do with his active lurking. It has to do with his posting, scaled upwards by his lack of posting.

I can be a bit more solid in my case against manho if you'd like, but I wasn't planning on spending the time on that until someone else expressed interest in stringing him up.

[Pie_is_good]

Yos: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you come across as deliberately noncommittal in your day 1 posting (I'm through about your post 30). You spent awhile questioning KMD without taking a stance one way or another on his suspicions, your attack on McGriddle reads like glorified lurker-lynching (a lot of it is "you won't catch up?

Really?

You assumed X?

Really?

"). Then you go back to noncommittal questioning. Protowners are bound to take a stand one way or another, piss a few people off, and link themselves to other people or their ideas. You did absolutely none of that, and you're a good enough player that I think that's probably deliberate.

But my offer stands: I'm happy to temporarily put this aside if you want to lynch manho with me.

[Pie_is_good]

Yos: Here are the early-game McG attacks you made that

don't

seem to me to be lurkerlynching:

You said that you hadn't read the game. I asked you why. (Ok, I said "weren't willing to" instead of "hadn't", but there had clearly been pleanty of time to read it if you had been willing to.) You responded by FOSing me and acting like I misrepresented you.

So, there are only two scum in the game now, huh?

[calling him out on a slip]

Am I missing anything? That's literally 2 lines of accusatory text (both of which I find unconvincing and a bit below Yos), and it hardly strikes me as championing the McG wagon. It lacks the panache a town-orchestrated attack typically has.

I also stand by my claim that you seemed to be trying very hard not to connect yourself with any people or ideas on day 1. If someone else wants to skim Yos's posts in isolation, I'd be interested in a second opinion on that.

That said, I had 3 different people I'd be willing to lynch, and I'm not about to wagon Yos just because he was the first one to show up and answer my questions. I'll

Unvote: Cooldog, Vote: manho

, because I think the four of us (me, elvis, Yos, iLord) all expressed willingness to wagon there. And we

are

under a week's deadline, so I'd like to force some claims sooner rather than later.

[Pie_is_good]

I am eating the greatest buffalo chicken sandwich right now.

[Pie_is_good]

Basically, I think that being uninterested in reading the game and therefore uninterested in finding scum is a huge scum tell.

I'm reading this as "my only real case against McG is that he was lurkin' like nobody's business." Is that correct?

Also, I'm confused. Do you disagree that you came out of day 1 unlinked or do you disagree that doing so is a scumtell?

[Pie_is_good]

For one thing, Tate was obviously anti-TateWagon. He also waded a bit into Reckoner's banter (specifically, with CoolDog and McG), and he made the claim that Reck flipping scum would clear CD and McG (if memory serves).

For two things, you have also posted much more legit content than Tate, meaning I would expect a much higher degree of linkage. Yet the content you posted seems picked-and-chosen to be linkage-immune.

For three things, this is a moot point if you're saying that yes, you did come out of day 1 unlinked, but it was completely accidental. Because then this conversation evolves into an analysis of whether or not your posting really does seem accidental (I would argue otherwise) and everyone else's actions are another matter entirely.

And for four things, sure, McG

active

lurked instead of your garden-variety lurking. My point stands: that wagon is not about to get you any backlash.

[Pie_is_good]

Done rereading. Would like to add to my IGMEOY list:
-ODDin
-Reck, because confirmed-innocent KMD was on his ass yesterday (although I don't personally find him that bad).

I'm also having a hard time getting a handle on Starbuck. She lurked through most of yesterday on the pretense of "people are being mean to each other on the internet," and then today posted fairly uninformatively and then went all gung-ho on the lurkers. Under normal circumstances I would find this scummy, but I realize it could just be a Starbuck meta. Anyone played with her before?

[Pie_is_good]

@Elvis: Thanks, that helps. In your experience, is it common for her to get angry about lurkers like she did earlier today? (Starbuck, you can answer this too if you'd like)

[Pie_is_good]

Why isn't manho dead yet? Literally half the content he's posted has been some variation on "Tate quoted the role PM!!!!!!," which a) happened early on page 1, and b) was originally brought up by someone else (Zazie). That's both forced AND a form of active lurking.

[Pie_is_good]

Then vote manho. All the cool kids are doing it.

[Pie_is_good]

Does it matter yet? Vote manho with us, Yos! It will get you ladies.

[Pie_is_good]

Pfft. You probably just don't like the idea of getting ladies.

[Pie_is_good]

@manho: There's just no way that that one post is the only scummy thing that's happened this game (unless, of course, you're scum, which is my current working theory). You need to start doing better than that.

@Starbuck: Yeah, there's really nothing "sudden" about me pushing for manho death...

@ODDin: I'm not going to get into the reasons I find you scummy, because I find several people more so and as it stands I won't be pushing for your lynch any time soon. I was just sayin'.
I would also like to make it clear that my vote on manho is not for lurking; it's for being scummy. Bv hasn't been (that) scummy in my opinion.

Other opinions: I find it ridiculous that iLord is being attacked for trying to save McG. To interpret that as a scumtell is WIFOM in the highest form.

[Pie_is_good]

Disagree.

[Pie_is_good]

Manho: The case against you is that the only point you've made all game is "Tate quoted the role PM, so he must be scum." This is a very weak tell at best, which makes it reasonable for a day 1 vote, but it's not about to pass for contribution on page 46. The fact that you've iterated it over and over again makes me think you're hiding behind it so that you don't have to risk making an actual opinion. The fact that someone else (Zazie) initially created the quoting-the-role-PM case against Tate makes this theory even more credible. Plus, the fact that you're lurkin' all up in my grill makes you all the more lynchable.

Nobody's really commented on the case against manho, so I presume they're voting manho as a pure lurker lynch. McSuave has probably lurked a tad more, but as far as I'm concerned he hasn't acted particularly scummy, while manho has. Thus, I'd like to kill manho today, and hope McSuave gets replaced and/or vigged in the mean time:

@BV: Of course, it's completely fair of you to be suspicious of my playerslot. Did you have that opinion before or after I FOSed everyone for NOT being suspicious of my playerslot?

@Wolf: "Pie has posted HER case to vote already"???

[Pie_is_good]

It's cool, Starbuck, I hate him.

[Pie_is_good]

Just kidding. I actually just hate his signature.

Anyways, manho, if you decide to show up it might be nice for you to defend yourself and/or claim. Preferably the latter.

[Pie_is_good]

Well that was uninformative, although I'm not really sure what I expected. I suppose all I can do right now is wait for more to come around to the manho wagon and get a claim and proceed from there. Those holding back: what's your reservation? I know some of you just have other lurkers you'd prefer to lynch, but do you find them as scummy (lurking aside) as you find manho?

[Pie_is_good]

iLord: But you don't think bv voters would be equally happy with a manho lynch? Porque?

[Pie_is_good]

Sure. Well, manho's at lynch-minus-three. At this point, I think we're waiting for a claim.

[Pie_is_good]

aggravate = to make frustrated. It turns out CoolDog's English isn't so good either.

manho, you need to roleclaim in your next post.

[Pie_is_good]

@Oddin: I mentioned mid-reread at some point that I was keeping an eye on ABR to see what I thought of the wagon, but thusfar found him unremarkable. I didn't expressly say so, but I still find him kind of unremarkable. So I half-answered the question.

Also, I will be the first to admit that I tend to push for claims earlier than most people are comfortable with.

And I like your point against CD; I noticed that, too.

[Pie_is_good]

is manho dead yet?

[Pie_is_good]

Okay, that's fair.

And rather than dig through my old games, I'm just going to cite my title as proof.

[Pie_is_good]

[Pie_is_good]

wolf and CMAR are, like,

really

boring.

[Pie_is_good]

Well, fuck. I'm 0/2.

Also, manho was a dead man walking. I don't blame CMAR at all.

More later.

[Pie_is_good]

I also think it's reasonable to work on the assumption that Yos was recruited. That makes me think whoever recruited Yos was not expecting him to come under suspicion any time soon, so they probably didn't buy into the Yos bandwagon. However, if I recall correctly, everyone who mentioned the Yos wagon was okay with the

logic

behind it, but wanted to keep Yos around if only for his activity. Which implies to me that we should be looking at the people most vehemently in favor of lurker-lynching yesterday.

Perhaps I'm completely off base here, but I'm going to interpret that as a lead and do a bit of poking around. Also I'd still be down to lynch Cooldog.

Also, posting will be dramatically reduced for the next ~4 days.

[Pie_is_good]

Alternate theory: EvilSnail is a recruit attempting to suicide-bomb Reck. This will buy the overlords 2 nights' worth of recruiting so it's clearly worthwhile.

If this is true, we shouldn't lynch either one. Killing recruits is too slow.

In order for this to be true, someone else would need to account for the two nightkills. Perhaps a vig, if present, should do so?

[Pie_is_good]

Vote: Reck

Eh. There are certainly plausible scenarios where ES is gambitting, but whichever way you cut it, nobody is more likely to be an overlord right now. I'm willing to risk a coplynch for that.

[Pie_is_good]

No Lynch is indeed a terrible idea. I'll entertain the idea of lynching someone who's neither Reck nor ES, but not no lynch at all.

[Pie_is_good]

Is Reck dead yet?

[Pie_is_good]

[Pie_is_good]

If Reck flips town, strong FoS: CMAR. Smells like distancing.

The ES-is-suicide-bombing idea was mine and I abandoned it because it just isn't as likely as ES telling the truth. If Reck flips town, I will work on the theory that ES is a recruit.

[Pie_is_good]

Reck is a great poster, but he dies too slowly.

[Pie_is_good]

Actually, I just picked up on something.

Unvote: Reck

.

Will probably wind up revoting, but I need to do some reevaluation first.

[Pie_is_good]

Not sure what a GD is but I would like to go on record thinking Reck is hilarious.

[Pie_is_good]

SlySly: I can't fathom ANY scenario where it's a good idea to lynch evilsnail. You think he's a Zombie Lord but he randomly put his own life on the line to try and get Reck lynched? Why the earth would he do that?

[Pie_is_good]

Lynching recruits is a terrible idea. Too slow. It just gives the Lords a night to make more of 'em.

Anyways, I did a bit of rereading and I totally understand what's going on now. I'm on board with ABR's plan of lynching neither.

Vote: CMAR.

Also willing to vote CoolDog if anyone is up for that.

[Pie_is_good]

I'm not sure if that was intended to be an attack. I'm not really overwhelmed by the urge to defend myself.

[Pie_is_good]

SlySly:
-You're accusing me of "tunneling" on manho. I made a lot of abrasive "Why isn't manho dead yet?" kind of posts, as I often do, but in the midst of these posts I mounted an attack on Yosarian. "Tunneling" means focusing on one player to the exclusion of the others, and I'm pretty sure I didn't do that at all.
-I'm curious where you think I was "rolefishing," aside from asking manho to claim a few times.
-I interpreted your vote on ES as an accusation of him being a Zombie Lord - rather than a recruit - on the logic that lynching recruits is a terrible idea. You seem to agree with me, since you've since unvoted ES. I guess my question is: do you think PieScum was sitting at his laptop and decided "I know! I'll try to pretend SlySly accused ES of being a Zombie Lord, even though he

didn't

, and then the town will get all

distracted!

. I mean, what about that play of mine is more likely to be done by scum?

@Oddin: No.

[Pie_is_good]

I think Slysly might be confusing "tunneling" and "having an opinion." I iso'd ABR, and he bitchfights with Reck constantly but certainly isn't tunneling - several times he expresses willingness to vote elsewhere.

Also, the fact that he thinks Reck's ultimate alignment reflects on ABR is a bit ridiculous. Has anyone played with SlySly before? I'm not sold on his competence, so I'm unsure whether or not to interpret him being wrong as him being scummy.

[Pie_is_good]

SlySly: In the first 3 posts you quoted, you cherrypicked the one part of the post that referenced manho, while the rest of it was me attacking Yos. The 3rd one is especially comical, because that post is the exact OPPOSITE of tunneling - having multiple people you're willing to lynch. You're not imagining things so much as you just don't understand the terms you're throwing around, and would have a damn hard time showing why they constitute scumminess in the way you're using them.

[Pie_is_good]

It's not "irrelevant" when it's the exact reason I'm not tunneling. You clearly read the post in its entirety but chose to ignore the parts that didn't fit with your little theory.

And sure, I'll plead guilty to pushing for manho's lynch. So?

[Pie_is_good]

I can't defend my predecessor, of course. But:
-Yes, I thought manho was the best lynch as of yesterday. Still not seeing how this is scummy, or how him flipping town has anything to do with anything.
-You still haven't answered my question about where you think I was rolefishing.
-I already addressed the "words in your mouth" issue (and you didn't ask for a direct quote, for the record). Because it's Really Stupid to lynch recruits, I interpreted your vote on ES as a Zombie Lord accusation. It's since become clear to me that you just didn't (don't?) really understand the "it's Really Stupid to lynch recruits" concept, so I realize now that you didn't think ES was a Zombie Lord.
-I don't recall actively defending

anyone

this game. When have I "defend[ed] liars and scummy players?"

[Pie_is_good]

I don't see how any of those posts are "rolefishing" except possibly the last one, where I asked a vig, if present, to account for a nightkill (I still think this is a good idea). The rest of them were either talking in general about the idea of claiming or asking manho specifically for a claim, the first of which is not rolefishing and the second of which is not controversial. It would help if you at least explained what it is about wanting manho to claim that you found scummy.

Also, yes, I have read the whole thread (although 7 or so of my posts were mid-reread). My general policy on replacing in is that I have someone recap the game for me, but nobody did when I asked for one. I can't tell if you find this scummy or you're just sayin'.

Anyways, it feels to me like SlySly's attack is getting silly and poorly thought out. I hardly have the authority to call my own "wagon" a distraction, but it feels like exactly that. Rest of the town: would you like to see this Pie/Sly conversation thread continued, or can we get back to Reck/ES? I'm more than happy to keep taking questions if that's what y'all want, but we are under deadline all so I'd like to keep this thing rolling.

[Pie_is_good]

Reck/ES is not at all a closed issue; it's the best thing that's happened to the town since I replaced in. I just happen to currently side with the "let's lynch neither" party.

And your "no town PRs should claim" theory is just wrong. We WANT our PRs getting nightkilled - it's better than our townies getting recruited. In this game, more so than others, we can afford to out PRs, especially in exchange for game-critical information, which a vig would offer.

And even despite that, "Anyone asking for any claims of the such should be lynched" is even wronger. Disagreement =/= scumminess.

[Pie_is_good]

Option A: Scum tries to recruit (for example) a doctor. The doctor dies.
Option B: Scum tries to recruit a townie. The townie becomes scum.

In Option A, the town loses a doctor. In Option B, the town loses a townie AND the scum gains a scum. I don't know about you guys, but Option B sounds a lot worse to me. At the VERY least, the two options are more equal than in a typical game (where the townie would just die), so we can afford to be more cavalier with outing our power roles than usual, because the information isn't quite as useful to scum.

[Pie_is_good]

Honestly, guys, SlySly has yet to put out a cohesive argument today. I would really like to stop entertaining his little tangents and get on with the day. I'm most willing to string up CoolDog or CMAR, would be willing to entertain a few others. What are all y'all's thoughts on those two?

[Pie_is_good]

Really? Because I'd prefer that they be dead so that the town gets hurt and me and my scum scummidy scumbuddies can slowly but surely win the game by tricking your power roles into revealing themselves so we can kill them. I plan to do this by outright stating my desire for the power roles to reveal themselves and not worry about the scum killing them, and hoping nobody notices.

Seriously, guys. Stop getting baited by SlySly. He's like a troll, but on accident.

[Pie_is_good]

Could be talked into a bv lynch as well. Doing some investigation on animorpherv, who has basically gotten a free pass all game.

[Pie_is_good]

SpyreX: I'd be happy to recap for you if you'd like. I too am of the opinion that the last few pages have been a waste of time.

iLord: I interpreted your post as saying you've played with SlySly before. Is that accurate? Does he usually act like this?

Also, for clarification: Are you saying you believe 2 ZL's on the same team, or 2 ZL's on different teams that alternate recruits?

[Pie_is_good]

Suit yourself.

[Pie_is_good]

Unvote: CMAR, Vote: Animorpherv

I Iso'd him. It feels like he's being cautious, and he first my earlier criteria of "didn't think the Yos wagon was going anywhere."

For the record, I'd still rather lynch CoolDog, and I'm about equally willing to lynch CMAR.

Now all I can do is wait for someone other than me and Sly to grow an opinion.

[Pie_is_good]

I didn't say vs. recruits.

I did.

[Pie_is_good]

Reck: Does your PM text/flavor suggest that you can only detect recruits (as opposed to recruits + lords)? Is your exact rolename "Cop?"

[Pie_is_good]

I see no active reason right now to out our very, very hypothetical vigs.

The "active reason" to out a vig that can account for Kmd/Yos's death is that we're currently ascribing those deaths to a failed recruit attempt. If a vig instead took credit for them, we would know there was probably a recruit among us, which lends much more credence to the "ES is a recruit suicide-bombing Reck" theory, which means we probably shouldn't lynch Reck.

There are also other good reasons to wait a day, I think.

[Pie_is_good]

That is so stupid of a reason. Who gives a shit if there is a recruit, they just voting against us. Vig needs to keep quiet and take aim at who we don't think are recruits. Evils is a lying recruit.

I am eating SUCH A GOOD Buffalo Chicken Sandwich right now. They made the sauce extra spicy for me. I'm friggin' crazy for this thing.

[Pie_is_good]

Spyrex: I'd like to hear your case against wolf when you get a chance.

[Pie_is_good]

I have no idea if there are unclaimed vigges. I'm just saying, if there are, and if they've been shooting, now would be a dandy time to reveal themselves.

Reck: You should PM the mod and ask for clarification on your role. It can't hurt.

People who aren't on the Reck wagon (especially Starbuck, who is on the Pie wagon): What do you think of Reck's cop ability being recruits-only? Likely or unlikely in a cult game? Make you more or less likely to want Reck dead?

(iLord: I will answer your remaining question about cops being useless contingent on Reck's clarification).

[Pie_is_good]

Why don't you fuckers just lynch me, it will save me the trouble of having to put up with this ridiculousness?!?!

Oh man I had the greatest idea today. I had them start shaving carrots onto the sandwich after they add the chicken. Now alongside the zesty explosion of flavor I receive with every bite, I can experience a mild crunch that cools my mouth back down after each morsel of chickeny goodness is consumed.

[Pie_is_good]

In any case, Sly, don't leave me here with all these monsters. By the way, Sly & Pie, do you think there is a ZL on my wagon? How many? Who are your top picks?

Statistically, yes, there are probably scum on your wagon, but none of the players jump out as me as a good lynch. Of those, I would be most willing to lynch Suave and EK.

I don't understand what you're saying here - you think there's unclaimed vigs?

What other good reasons?

No - I haven't a clue if there are vigges in this game or not. I'm saying that

if there is a vigilante (or other killing role) who is responsible for the death of Kmd or Yos,

they should claim their results. That way, we know that the cult has probably recruited successfully at least once. This information would be very helpful because if we ARE in the presence of a recruit, it is less likely that EvilSnail is tracker and Reck is a Lord and more likely that EvilSnail is a recruit and Reck is a cop. So we probably shouldn't lynch Reck.

It would not help the town to state my other good reasons in thread. You can read the thread and reach your own conclusions.

Also: who/where is "Grimmy?"

[Pie_is_good]

Also, I don't find "wolf-gate" super convincing yet, but it's at least worth hearing a response from wolf.

[Pie_is_good]

Why does this suggest that we probably shouldn't lynch RECK?

Sorry, I was ambiguous. I meant that we probably shouldn't lynch Reck

if a vig were to claim

. I don't think we should lynch Reck now either, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not voting for him.

You're right that the shots would be bizarre for a vig, and I realize that nobody's about to come out with it. At this point, I guess the point is mostly for defensive purposes - to show that I had actually thought this through, and was not trying to nefariously trick the vigges into claiming so I could nightkill them or whatever it is I'm being accused of.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, I would still like this question answered, preferably before Reck dies:

People who aren't on the Reck wagon (especially Starbuck, who is on the Pie wagon): What do you think of Reck's cop ability being recruits-only? Likely or unlikely in a cult game? Make you more or less likely to want Reck dead?

Also,

Unvote: animorpherv, Vote: CMAR

. Shameless wagoning, which is necessary if someone other than Reck is to die today.

[Pie_is_good]

I dont think it is a joke. I do think it is a post restriction.

In case you want a visual, for a PBPA or something, it kind of looks like this:

...but there are herbs baked into the bun, so there are these little green flecks (not pictured). I'm pretty sure they use garlic, but there's got to be something else (maybe oregano? Does anyone even know what oregano tastes like?), because they've created the perfect blend of herbs and spices that keeps me coming back for more and I'm pretty sure that perfect blend of herbs and spices is not "just garlic."

[Pie_is_good]

In celebration of SlySly's 100th in-thread post, here's a list of people whose lynches SlySly has endorsed at some point today: (indexed by the Iso post in which he first does so)

evilsnail (5)
Pie (8)
iLord (8)
Oddin (13)
EK (46ish)
bv (62)
SpyreX (78)
ABR (100)

[Pie_is_good]

Yes, actually.

[Pie_is_good]

I don't want you to replace out, Sly. I want you to post more useful stuff in more normal quantities. I would also like you to handle certain parts of this game a bit more postpubescently.

@Starbuck: When (if ever) do you think you'll be ready to lynch one of ES/Reck?

@Everyone: Reck is at 8/16 right now, and I haven't heard anyone on his wagon make any noises about changing. That means he's basically a dead man walking, and we're coasting through the rest of the day and waiting for our inactivities to check in. Am I right?

[Pie_is_good]

Alright Starbuck. That'll be all.

I'll be willing to lynch one of Reck/ES tomorrow. Even if Reck's scum - and I think he is - there's a substantial amount of information to be gained from waiting a day. I also agree with SpyreX - by far the most likely scenario is 2 (or more?) Lords on the same team. This means we stand to lose nothing by waiting.

[Pie_is_good]

You know, I agreed with this before, but I seriously reconsidered a while back. A cop does not seem to be half as valuable as it is in a normal game and I have not found any other serious targets. This coupled with the fact that I believe that if we don't lynch RECK, we're almost definitely going to mislynch makes me hesitant to lynch anyone else today.

Cops are mad valuable if they can detect Lords, hardly valuable at all otherwise. If we wait a day, Reck investigates ES (as a precaution against scum bus drivers or any other weirdness that could have caused this) or another (this applies if he flips town). Hypothetically, if we have other cops, they can check Reck and we can figure out the results of cop-on-Lord action (this applies if he flips scum).

Also, leaving both alive prevents either from getting nightkilled. This one isn't as convincing to me - as we've previously discussed, I'd be more than happy to see either one get nightkilled - but hey, maybe it'll swing someone out there.

[Pie_is_good]

Welcome dear citizens. This is a special announcement. Today

some

co-worker

s

were bitten by one of our ……..lets say experimental creatures.

They

left our facility and seemed fine. However in our findings it appears

they

may not be fine after all.

[Pie_is_good]

-All the cool kids are voting for CMAR.
-If you vote for CMAR, you will be cool too.
-Therefore you should vote for CMAR.

[Pie_is_good]

Assuming nobody else moves over from the Reck wagon, and considering that CMAR himself is not about to join us, if everyone else votes CMAR that still only puts him at 8.

At the very least, that means that Sly and Starbuck, our two dissident voters, are probably going to have to choose sides here.

[Pie_is_good]

I mean between Reck and CMAR. CMAR is the only player who can get lynched today besides Reck, unless we can swing another from the Reck wagon.

[Pie_is_good]

Sly, CMAR and Reck are the only two lynchable players today. You need to choose one (which I presume will be CMAR, given that you've been a vocal defender of Reck thusfar).

[Pie_is_good]

Actually, you ARE mistaken, although the point is moot until our inactivities show up.

[Pie_is_good]

Sly: If both CMAR and Reck stick at 8 - which is not unlikely - it's a footrace to see who gets there first.

[Pie_is_good]

Why is CMAR so convinced that the only possible reason to vote for someone is lurkitude?

Why is CMAR's avatar so obnoxious?

And yes, NL is a godawful idea. But there's protocol for a deadline lynch, so I don't think we're in danger of NLing.

[Pie_is_good]

@CMAR: You're right, and that's why you haven't seen me ask for claims arbitrarily (

I

haven't claimed PR/not PR, for example). The point I am making is that it's simply much less dangerous to out our PRs than usual, so if outing PRs gives us some sort of useful information we shouldn't hesitate to do so.

As for the chicken sandwich question, I guess it just comes down to the simple joys in life. Although we all want to be loved, appreciated, and respected for who we truly are, there are some sorts of camaraderie offered by a really good Buffalo Chicken Sandwich that human companionship just can't provide. I guess I just wanted to offer you all a reminder that, despite our quibbles, in the end this is just a mafia game and there

are

more important things in the world. Like Buffalo Chicken Sandwiches.

[Pie_is_good]

Actually, your vote is on Pie, which I would argue means

you

fail.

Seriously thought: jumping on the "Pie wants to murder our PRs in their sleep," which is the second-dumbest thing I've been attacked for in my mafia career (the first being that posting about sandwiches is a ZL post-restriction), doesn't make me feel any worse about my CMAR vote. Feels opportunistic more than anything, since he already expressed willingness to off Reck.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh, wait. I totally just mistook Oddin's post for yours. My bad.

Accordingly, Fos: Oddin. Now would you like to vote for someone who actually stands to get lynched today?

[Pie_is_good]

ODDin: That's a pretty bad misrepresentation of what I said. The conversation went like this:

Pie: Vig should claim if they have info that will help the town.
Sly: What? But then the cult will kill the vig! FoS: Pie
Pie: That's fine with me. If the cult is dumb enough to shoot at the vig, we WANT the vig outed - a dead vig is better than a recruited townie.

You are now quoting the last line as evidence that I want our power roles to claim to try and "trick" the scum or something, when that's not what I meant at all.

In any case, you've still yet to explain why that constitutes a scumtell. Are you trying to argue that ScumPie thought to himself "I know, I'll trick our power roles into claiming using obviously faulty logic so that I can make my recruiting choices with SLIGHTLY MORE PRECISION!?"

And my "vote for someone who is likely to die today" has nothing to do with the deadline. You've just been gone for a few days, and so when you return, I would expect you to weigh in on some of the more hot-button issues (such as the emerging CMAR wagon). Instead you ran off and made an independent point of your own, which struck me as noncommittal and therefore scummy.

In related news, I've been mulling over the idea of massclaiming and I think it might be a pretty good idea (shock!). Not today - we don't have enough time or activity to do it justice - but tomorrow. As I've previously discussed, the drawbacks aren't nearly as potent as usual - the information of who the town PRs are is not very helpful to scum - and if we can force recruitable townies to commit to the "townie" claim early, it'll weaken their ability to suicide bomb us later as ES is accused of doing. Plus we seem to have a relatively large number of PRs in this game, which always makes massclaim stronger.

More on that later.

[Pie_is_good]

Can I get a TLDR on why we haven't lynched reckoner?

We're lynching him tomorrow. Gives us more info and has no significant drawback.

[Pie_is_good]

CMAR: you previously thought Reck was town because you hadn't considered the possibilty that he might have made up his investigation results? What?

[Pie_is_good]

Really?

Really?

No. I have never, ever made any of my stances on the current situation made clear even in the tiniest amount.

I like this guy.

I really have nothing to say until we get a CMAR claim.

[Pie_is_good]

You're not being voted for lurking, stop posting your resume. I originally voted you as a Reck alternative, and now I'm voting you for responding terribly to pressure.

[Pie_is_good]

Pie: I'm voting you for X.
CMAR: NO YOU'RE NOT!!!

[Pie_is_good]

Yes, but iLord and I aren't.

[Pie_is_good]

It is being deflected for a reason and I don't feel that needs to be answered at the moment at all.

So you breadcrumbed just to look cute? Either you want the people to know the information or you don't.

The feel I'm getting is that CMARscum genuinely believes that he has not screwed up, and is therefore frustrated by people "getting lucky" and accusing him for stupid reasons. He's right that he's been more active than some, and I have a healthy respect for fluff posts. That said, I don't like his overreaction, and in my experience "What-About-Him" defenses are typically orchestrated by scum (as CMAR's doing with his "Please guys? Can we lynch Suave? Please? Huh? Can we?" schitck).

We may as well just all mass claim with the way this day has went.

Good to see some eyes finally opening.

[Pie_is_good]

Yes, I said I wouldn't mind a MrSuave lynch. Just to be rid of the distraction. But we have deadline in what? 3 days?

Funny how quickly we go from "Pie is rushing the day" to "Aww man, I wish we could lynch this guy but we're just out of time." Just sayin'.

[Pie_is_good]

When did I say that you were rushing, Pie?

You

didn't; I was just being generally smug.

There aren't 9 days left like there was when you WERE trying to rush it.

True, but in my defense, the sandwich shop down the street has started offering to toast the bun itself for a nominal fee ($1 if the sandwich is footlong, $.50 if it's 1/2). And I mean, sure, it sounds like a lot of money for just slightly crispier bread - it's not like it costs

them

anything to run it through their little machine - but it does noticeably improve the sandwich experience, and so I kind of feel obligated to buy it, y'know? Those sandwiches are a religious experience, and choosing not to spend a dollar to improve them would be like choosing not to print the New Testament in your hotel's Bibles due to budget cuts.

[Pie_is_good]

@SpyreX and like-minded: You keep talking as though there's some huge payoff to lynching a ZL today. As I understand it, our working theory is that there are 2 or more ZLs on the same team, all with recruiting powers. This means that it doesn't matter when we lynch the first ZL - it matters when we lynch the last one.

Don't get me wrong - I think Reck is likely a ZL. But why do you keep saying "it's worth voting Reck simply because he has a decent chance of flipping Lord, and we cannot let him survive the night?"

[Pie_is_good]

I read CMAR's post several times and still have no idea what his case against me is. I've spent this whole day defending against a Recklynch without defending Reck.

Anyways, to address the other points in that post:
-You don't understand breadcrumbing. If you breadcrumb WHILE THE WAGON IS BEING FORMED AGAINST YOU, it will do nothing for you come claimtime.
-iLord has obviously since changed his mind. At that point in the game, I was jumping around looking for an nonReck wagon that could gain traction. While I still don't think a clankimorph lynch would be the worst thing in the world, I recognized that he's not gettin' the noose today so I let it go.
-I have explained several times being "suddenly on board with ABR's plan." Read up.

[Pie_is_good]

<48 hours 'till deadline. Commitment time. I'm looking at you, bv and Wolf.

[Pie_is_good]

@ODDin: Your point 4 is silly given that your Pie-vote wasn't much better justified, and your point 5 is silly because what?. I guess this is a mental note to yell at you about that tomorrow. For now we can use all the CMAR voters we can get. Woo team CMAR!

@SpyreX: You nicely dodged that question. I understand that you don't want the scum to recruit townies. My question was "why does lynching Reck tomorrow make it more likely that townies get recruited?"

@CMAR: You should claim now.

[Pie_is_good]

@CMAR: You should claim now.

The breadcrumb wasn't obvious enough for you? Why doesn't this surprise me?

I picked up on the breadcrumb - or I think I did, anyways. Are you trying to say he shouldn't claim outright just because he dropped a breadcrumb once?

Seriously? Why would delaying the lynch of a ZL hurt the town?
not only is that a bad question, but the repitition of it makes you look even worse.

I can see where you're coming from - repetition is typically viewed as a bad thing - but there are exceptions in the world, and this Buffalo Chicken Sandwich I am currently eating is one of them. I have eaten this sandwich so many times before (not literally, of course, but I have placed the same order at the same restaurant more times than I can count), yet it seems to improve with every iteration. It becomes more than a sandwich; it becomes an experience: I know when and were to expect the cool crunch of the lettuce, where the sauce seems to concentrate within the sandwich, how to bite so that the perfect combination of ingredients enters my mouth at the same time, resulting in the exact sensation the Sandwich Artists desired me to have. There are just certain aspects to the Buffalo Chicken Sandwich experience that seem to only improve with time.

[Pie_is_good]

Also, iLord: what?

Also, Sly: crunchtime; would appreciate a CMAR vote. CMAR: it's cool, you should probably keep voting me. I mean what's the rush.

[Pie_is_good]

"I don't think it is a joke. I do think it is a post restriction."
-Grimmy
Firday, April 2nd
2010

I mean, seriously, that happened.

[Pie_is_good]

My point 5 refers to this post. Some people continued believing CMAR was voting for reck some time after that. Only thing it did was generate confusion.

The fact that you think that post is a scumtell is absurd and it makes me question your competency.

Everyone was thinking it, I said it.

[Pie_is_good]

And your "no town PRs should claim" theory is just wrong. We WANT our PRs getting nightkilled - it's better than our townies getting recruited.

What?

Unvote, vote Pie

If Reck flips scum, very strong FoS: ABR for this. He knows very well that I'm not about to get lynched when I'm at 2 votes with <24 hours 'till deadline. The only motivation I can think of for this is to ease pressure on Reck (who, being the first to 8 votes, would necessarily get lynched unless someone unvoted).

Sly, Wolf: If I claim doctor will you suddenly believe everything

I

say, too?

[Pie_is_good]

It's not that I 100% believe CMAR, it is just that at this time, he has not been countered and his claim flavor goes along with Recks, so I really do not want to lynch him.

My goodness! It's almost as if one of them claimed before the other!

As SpyreX said in much better terms, I legitimately do not understand the massive collective chubby we've popped for anyone willing to say they're a power role.

[Pie_is_good]

Based on how scummy their posting has been, and based on how consistent their claim is with their actions.

Are you seriously saying that there's no way to distinguish between power roles, and therefore we should only ever lynch people who claim townie?

[Pie_is_good]

Unvote: CMAR, Vote: Reck

Pure unadulterated self-preservation. This is quite literally the worst reason I've ever been wagoned in my mafia career ("I'm not voting for a claimed

insert generic power role here

!").

[Pie_is_good]

Unvote: CMAR, Vote: Reck

Pure unadulterated self-preservation. This is quite literally the worst reason I've ever been wagoned in my mafia career ("I'm not voting for a claimed

insert generic power role here

!").

You are getting lynched today.

You are incompetent.

I know animorpherv to be competent from past experience, which says to me that his "quicklynching" comment is likely scummy. How the hell would a Reck vote constitute a quicklynch? He's been on the edge of death all day.

[Pie_is_good]

Well, that's it, then. I'm at 8, and since Oddin has gone missing, I was the first to 8. Assuming no unvotes - which will almost certainly be the case - I'm lynched.

Last Will and Testament:
Let me start by saying this: all town on the Pie flashmob, you need to seriously reconsider whether or not mafia is the game for you. I mean, I've been around for a long time, and I can honestly stay that was the worst lynch I've ever seen. Ever. I was voted for "we can't lynch a claimed power role ever because what if they're telling the TRUTH??", "Pie thinks he probably won't be lynched today! Let's prove him wrong!", "Pie is trying to

trick our power roles into claiming by outright asking them to claim

", and whatever the hell it is the lurkers voted me for after not reading the thread for a few weeks. The irony of this all is that nobody bothered to ask me to claim to see if they were lynching a power role here. You weren't, it turns out. I'm a vanilla townie, which is why I was spearheading as many lynches as possible. That's what you do as a townie.

Lynch Reck tomorrow, of course, and then take a look at the people who should know better than to jump on this wagon. That certainly includes ABR and debatably includes animorph.

Enjoy your 11 hours and 10 minutes of random speculation on whether or not this is a gambit.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh, and: Massclaim tomorrow is a really, really good idea.

[Pie_is_good]

You are going places.

[Pie_is_good]

Adding to the list: "Because ODDin hasn't found anything since a couple pages into day 2 that's worth voting."

At this point it's just funny.

[Pie_is_good]

Yeah! Let's all move to CMAR! People on the Pie wagon, you go first. We'll be just behind you.

[Pie_is_good]

FoS: iLord

for making an accusation against a CLAIMED POWER ROLE!

[Pie_is_good]

Hey ODDin, remember that time iLord just claimed role-based info on Reck being scum? Yeah, that was funny.

[Pie_is_good]

Hey ODDin, remember that time iLord just claimed role-based info on Reck being scum? Yeah, that was funny.

I've claimed nothing of the such.

Shhhh. I'm trying to trick him into counterclaiming so I can kill him tonight.

[Pie_is_good]

We could compromise and have ODDin move to CMAR while the rest of us stay on Reck. That way CMAR knows he isn't getting off too easy. It, like, sends a message and shit.

[Pie_is_good]

Me, iLord, EK, ODDin vote CMAR. That puts him at 5 (including Sly). I would be at 7. We would still need to swing 3 more voters. I'm fairly certain SpyreX would do it, but he's not even here right now. I think the best hope might be that one of the Pie-voters signs on, reads iLord's "I am sure that Reck is scum" in a reasonable manner (as 0/2 so far have failed to do), and makes the switch. But I'm not at all optimistic that that will happen.

I think I'll just be posthumously counting on the three competentencies in this game (you know who you are) to keep this one together for the town, somehow.

[Pie_is_good]

SLYSLY WANTS POWER ROLES TO CLAIM NOW WEE WOO WEE WOO WEE WOO

[Pie_is_good]

Pre-emptive strike: should read "(as 0/2 have succeeded to do)." That kind of puts a damper on the beligerancy of that post, don't you think?

[Pie_is_good]

Useful things to do between now and deadline:

-Unvote Pie
-Vote Reck
-Watch this 17 times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYVpYjOoTU

[Pie_is_good]

Also, I'm with SlySly. I have no real reason to trust you, iLord.

This is where you know you should be reconsidering your vote and/or your mafia career.

[Pie_is_good]

Am I helping?

[Pie_is_good]

Am I helping?

Unless you can pull some extra votes out of your ass, I don't see much you can do. SlySly definitely won't listen to me, but I'm thinking we could definitely sway ODDin.

Actually I was thinking of just yelling at him.

ODDin, look. 2 people (ES and iLord) have claimed info on Reck. The ONLY WAY RECK IS NOT SCUM is if both of them are scum or some sort, and therefore lying. So your options are:
-They were both recruited, and someone/something else killed Kmd and Yos. And seriously: what are the odds of this?
-One of them is a ZL. This means ES put his life on the line unprovoked early this day to try and off a random townsperson, and iLord put his life on the line unprovoked late this day to try and save my life. How does that make sense, like, at ALL?

[Pie_is_good]

I don't believe I have claimed info

Stop that. I have 5 minutes of life left and you gave me all this false hope.

[Pie_is_good]

I don't believe I have claimed info

You haven't and that is why I am voting Pie. Pie need to shut his hole. Oh, farside is about to do that for him.

I keep trying, but the look and feel of that delectable Buffalo Chicken Sandwich just keeps getting me to open it back up again to stuff my face with more spicy tangy goodness with the perfect punch of flavor in every bite.

iLord: I don't think your little best-case-scenario is an option. You claim or I'm dead.

[Pie_is_good]

Sly's right. If I am lynched, I will look back at iLord as being the sole reason why. Clearly iLord's fault and no one else's.

[Pie_is_good]

Thanks farside. Congrats scum.

I did enjoy the fact that the three scum I named on my way out were the next three lynches.

Wolf - Well done; I didn't see it coming.

iLord - I was mulling over an endgame gambit similar to the one you pulled all game. In fact, for awhile, I VERY strongly considered trying to fashion a voting block of vanillas who would force NoLynches for as long as one of their kind was recruited by scum. Eventually, I decided that it was too early for that kind of a gambit, but I probably would have tried it later. In any case, I do think your endgame gambit should have bought you a win, and I hope to see you in another life.

SpyreX - As one of the town's voices of reason, a little part of me was happy to see you come out with a win. The rest of me wasn't at all happy to see me come out with a lose. Jerk. Hope to see you in another life.

Yos - My bad. Always a pleasure.

And lastly, sorry to disagree with Wolf, but there was some astoundingly bad town play that game; nothing that seemed in the Awards ballpark. You know who you are.

And for real lastly, I'm typing this while eating a Buffalo Chicken Sandwich. Like, for real.