Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Anon]

Pedo bear reporting in.

Doing massive read right now.

[Anon]

Ok.

Best RVS in a while. God laffs while reading.

Now, srz bsnss, Richard likely town getting angry. Easy target ftw.

Which means that the people pushing the wagon are more likely to be scum than the average.

Letss see, farside smells bad pushing rly hard. Seraphim doesnt want to lynch him but to pressure him so he can be useful. And Faraday votes because anyone that asks to be lynched should be lynched iho, lolwut?

I cant decide which of the voters is the most scummy. All three have some bad flavor attached. The good thing is that if richard is town, as I suspect, its likely one of these guys is likely scum and that a farside-seraph-faraday scumteam discarded from the go just using "all eggs in one basket" theory.

A more deep reread in iso will give me more light about these three. For now, wagon powers activate:

Vote: farside.

[Anon]

Pfft, Anon, your 'reread' consists of 1 wagon and 3 players... Oh, and after you've finished attacking people for going after an 'easy' target you join the wagon on Farside that was created for no reason, oh and is now equal with Richards. Pot, please meet Kettle he'll be joining us today.

Farside is not an easy target. /lrn 2 esytrgt.

Also, Anon, Richard has specifically stated that he's not angry, or not 'throwing a hissy fit'. Since he's not claiming angry town, why are you doing it for him?

Because reads exist for a reason.

Basically my position is that Richard's reactions dont feel fake. For example, in this post you can feel he is already annoyed at ckd for trying to push a policy lynch

vote richard

have I done this yet?

is it too early to say I am tunneling?

If this is some kind of attemp at a Policy Lynch, please stop.

This is probably what you call overreaction. For me, this is a genuine way to express annoyance for someone who just voted 3 times in a row with zero ingame argumentation. At least its a nulltell.

To reinforce my position lets analyse the reasons farside used to vote him.

Richard being obsessed with CKD's vote on him is ridiculous. It's one vote. I detect panic in Richards post.

Yeah its one vote. But it was not a normal one vote. As I said, CKD voted him three times, in a serious way, with zero ingame argumentation. Of course people is going to be obsessed with someone voting him like that.

Seraphim votes shorty after. And then comes what seals it for me.

Everybody should vote me now.

Once again, this strikes me as genuine annoyance against a wagon that, putting myself in richard's shoes, is stupid. Assuming richardscum, its not that he is caught, he is at 3 votes, so inverse psychology is stupid at that moment.

[Anon]

Did you even read my reason's for finding his behavoir scummy based on the actions so far? He was antsy on one f@#ing vote. One person pushing his button's and he couldn't handle it. Do you know that players that are town tend to do that for reaction?

Players that are TOWN?

[Anon]

Please explain, since you are such an expert at reading players, why he backpedaled and then said his 'lynch me now' statement was a gambit.

did he say his "lynch me now" was not a gambit?

[Anon]

Please explain, since you are such an expert at reading players, why he backpedaled and then said his 'lynch me now' statement was a gambit.

did he say his "lynch me now" was not a gambit?

No, he said it was which doesn't really fit into your furious town postulate. Sounds like pissed off scum trying to cover his ass to me.

He said it was partly frustration and partly test reaction.

Furious town and reaction tester are not mutually exclusive.

What do you think of my last post explaining why I think he is town? Do you disagree with my other points? At this point, Im more interested in the people voting him. What do you think of the reason farside used to vote him? Do you agree with her?

[Anon]

I missed some questions,

Unvote, Vote: Anon That scales as one of the very worst read throughs I have ever seen. Even on the site i first started playing on.

Even if this were true, why does it deserve a vote? Why do you think this was scummy?

You need to read people in iso already to have a strong opinion? I thought you just read the thread.

Yeah, basically I read the thread quickly to get an idea of what wass going on. I took quick notes and to-do notes. One of them is finding what is stinking in the richard wagon.

[Anon]

Did you even read my reason's for finding his behavoir scummy based on the actions so far? He was antsy on one f@#ing vote. One person pushing his button's and he couldn't handle it. Do you know that players that are town tend to do that for reaction?

Players that are TOWN?

+



And anon misrepresents the question.

I love how anon isn't answering anything asked at all so far. (in case you missed it that is sarcasm)

unvote:
vote: Anon

I dont want to misrepresent the question and correct me if Im wrong, but in this post you are saying that players that are town tend to do that (push buttons so target cant handle). I assume you are talking about CKD. How do you know CKD is town?

Also please point me to questions Ive missed.

[Anon]

Anon, if over-reacting and panicking to a vote(s) isn't scummy, what is a scummy reaction to votes?

It entirely depends on the way people express that reaction.

Ive seen townies, especially newbies, overreact and panick to a vote, which is prob not the case here since its more likely richard is angry with ckd triple vote. Ive seen scumbags play it cool and not slip until the last moment.

All alignments commit scumtells, the point is that you have to analyse first if its a very reliable scumtell, and second if there are other tells to fight or help the read. That is scumhunting.

[Anon]

So it could be a scumtell, but pushing it and trying to get more information is a bad thing?

Not necessarily.

The point is that this "omg scumtell, lynch lynch" is a safe place for scumbags to hide, specially if the target is town, as I suspect.

[Anon]

Because it is scraping through without content. That isn't good.

But I did provide content.

My question is that you are voting me because you disagree with it?

[Anon]

@Sando: Im precisely trying to explain why what Richard did wasn't a scumtell and why do I think he is town.

@Farside, relax a little.

What question do you want ME to answer?

What question do you want RICHARD to answer?

............

Also interested on the bv case. First, massive flipflopping on richard and second what Zito said. While I talk with farside Ill contribute with a better wagon:

Vote: bv

@Espeonage, so you voted me because I said something stupid?

[Anon]

Do you disagree with my thought on what town tends to do?

Yes, town tends to push for reactions, thats pure scumhunting, but that doesnt mean that all people pushing for reactions are town.

What's the difference between what CKD did to rich that Papa Zito was doing to me exactly?

What did Zito do to you?

[Anon]

I think its pretty clear that you think overreaction is a scumtell while I dont think it is.

[Anon]

Ok Saying somt=ething stupid is a bit undescriptive. You said something that is a stupid thing to say when thying to place a vote. It makes your vote seem like it is based off a whim which is unacceptable anywhere other than RVS.

Except I used it to decide my vote between three players I suspected not some RVS crap vote.

Are you like reading?

[Anon]

The other question Anon missed

Did you even read my reason's for finding his behavoir scummy based on the actions so far?

Yes I talked about them in a previous post:

To reinforce my position lets analyse the reasons farside used to vote him.

Richard being obsessed with CKD's vote on him is ridiculous. It's one vote. I detect panic in Richards post.

Yeah its one vote. But it was not a normal one vote. As I said, CKD voted him three times, in a serious way, with zero ingame argumentation. Of course people is going to be obsessed with someone voting him like that.

[Anon]

I think its pretty clear that you think overreaction is a scumtell while I dont think it is.

So I'll ask again, is there any response to a vote(s) that you think is a scumtell?

A defined response, no.

As I said, Ive seen townies overreact. Ive seen scumbags not overreact. So overreaction in my book, specially in newbies, is a nulltell.

[Anon]

But why can't you come to a decision on your own over which of the three deserves your vote instead of just going for the one with the biggest wagon.

And no you're right. i'm actually reading instead.

No once again you are not reading:

In the same post:

I cant decide which of the voters is the most scummy. All three have some bad flavor attached.

A more deep reread in iso will give me more light about these three.

So?

[Anon]

Do you disagree with my thought on what town tends to do?

Yes, town tends to push for reactions, thats pure scumhunting, but that doesnt mean that all people pushing for reactions are town.

Wow nice fence sitting you have going on there. I so love it.

Its not fence sitting. Its stating the truth. In a wagon, there are always two type of people: townies scumhunting and scumbags pretending to be townies scumhunting.

At this precise moment, Im trying to find out which one you belong to.

[Anon]

Do you disagree with my thought on what town tends to do?

Yes, town tends to push for reactions, thats pure scumhunting, but that doesnt mean that all people pushing for reactions are town.

Wow nice fence sitting you have going on there. I so love it.

Its not fence sitting. Its stating the truth. In a wagon, there are always two type of people: townies scumhunting and scumbags pretending to be townies scumhunting.

At this precise moment, Im trying to find out which one you belong to.

What do you see more often in games as far as players pushing for reaction, scum or town?

Both. Pushing for reactions its easy to fake.

Look, farside, Im asking questions and pushing you to get reactions from you. Does that mean Im town? Should I think you are town for doing the same thing?

[Anon]

But why can't you come to a decision on your own over which of the three deserves your vote instead of just going for the one with the biggest wagon.

And no you're right. i'm actually reading instead.

No once again you are not reading:

In the same post:

I cant decide which of the voters is the most scummy. All three have some bad flavor attached.

A more deep reread in iso will give me more light about these three.

So?

So do the read before making a vote.

Ill do the read whenever I fell motivated to.

My problem is why are you voting me for that?

[Anon]

And Patrick was doing so well with the votecounts too.

farside, I got lost in the machinegun fire.

Its probably me.

Logging off before one of my three new friends posts and I feel the urge to answer.

[Anon]

Farside all your 268 can be answered with:

Why do you think taking a stance different to yours makes someone scum?

When you get back Anon I want links to games you saw scum do what your claiming there.

Sure. I know some game you'll remember called Pick your Poison 4 where you were pushing Yosarian's case in a way that made me think you were town. Unfortunately for me and almost for the game, you were scum and I got lynched for it. But thats where I learnt that pushing cases is very easy to fake and not the 100% towntell you are trying to paint.

Now that we are talking about that game, you commented that you remembered my play from the other game. Now that Im fully caught up, how different/similar am I playing to that game?

[Anon]

Anon. It is a simple chioce between a couple of people. There are better ways to choose other than jumping on the biggest wagon.

Why deciding your vote with that reason is scummy enough to vote someone?

Also what is your opinion on wagons?

reading the Anon/farside arguement. tempted to vote Anon, on a vibe. anon what kind of reaction were you trying to get form farside? What reaction would you have deemed scummy? town? How did she fair? Also, why post that you were going to stop posting(ie logging off)? Why not just log off?

I dont plan to get reactions on people when I ask questions. I evaluate the answers I get. Right now, farside is giving me mixed vibes. Ive seen her doing this with magnus in an ongoing game where they are both dead and town but Ive also seen her doing this as scum with Yosarian in the game I mentioned. Im also prob biased by omgus. What do you think of her?

And the log off is something I made with the intention of obligating me of not posting more and get my work done. I made three new friends and were having some nice chatting but business are business.

[Anon]

What? Please explain your question in full.

You commented previously that I was acting different from our previous game together. Do you still maintain that comment?

So again show me a game where scum uses RVS to get reaction on a player.

Im talking about scum faking aggressiveness towards a player to get reactions/answers. I never talked about the RVS.

Pick your Poison4 is a good example of scum faking aggressiveness towards a player to get an answer. Its not that different from what you are doing with Richard but also not that different from what you were doing with magnus in seemingly normal.

My point is that agresiveness is not a powerful towntell as you are trying to paint.

So I called Richard scum for not reacting as me? Did I say that in my post or did I show reasoning when questioning him and his reactions?

Im talking about me. You think I am scum because sic, you dont agree with my reasoning.

Also yeah I missed the sarcasm. I dont even know what you are trying to say there.

[Anon]

Id so love to get a speonage wagon right now.

If bv werent that scummy.

[Anon]

So, uh, Anon, you don't think Over-reaction is a tell?

From SWN II http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=250

explain why you dont think he is scummy after:
- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

and

Scumbags are more likely to overreact to a nonexistent pressure because they are paranoid of being supected/lynched. So yeah, its a scumtell.

First is post 253, second is 337.

Had a change of heart on over-reaction as a scumtell I see...

Yeah, specially when the guy who had committed the scumtell was a TOWN jailkeeper.

[Anon]

Was your plan to get reactions or not?

As I said, I dont plan to get reactions from people. If somehow they show up because I unconsciously pressed a button, then cool, more information is always useful. I dont plan it, first, because its hard to do, and second because answers are easy to evaluate.

As for Anon it could be he doesn't trust me do to PYP4. But seriously my scum game was not that good.

Of course it was good. I was mislynched basically due to me buying your aggression as a strong towntell. Yosarian the weak doctor, yes the one everyone agrees with, protected you the next night. How was your scum game not that good?

[Anon]

Its time for Anon's list of people who need to die before endgame.

Sponsored by Pedobear Felinus.

MME
SB
dybeck
bv
Sando
Pome
Espeonage
nick
biohazard
docpotter
faraday

If you are in that list and you are a not a lurker, then you are more scummy than average. If you are a lurker, you are also scummy so start freaking posting so I can remove you from that list.

[Anon]

And yes, I realize its more than half of the playerlist. There is a lot of people lurking and some guys that need replacing.

[Anon]

uhhhhh....please explain or prepare to be voted.

I stand by my explanation on my last post.

I understand where your confusion is coming from. If you read my second quote in context, Im repeating what farside says in 261, "pushing for reactions" and explaining her that it wasnt the towntell she was thinking of since I was kinda doing the same thing yet she kept (keeps?) thinking I was scum. I didnt plan to get reactions from her but I guess I pressed a button that made her go rage mode against me.

In regards to gauge your reaction, I sincerely think you are looking too much into it. Im still evaluating what does this mean in terms of alignment and the slight town read I have on you for other reasons. Would you say you have an agressive defined meta as a townie?

[Anon]

I like this new guy Ojanen. Espeonage case is good posting and something I was trying to develop after his vote against me. I didnt get the fuel for it and I think the bv case is a little more interesting, but Im all in for a Espeonage wagon.

I could go for nick as well. I found this when I checked back for answers.

Bv...I'm not sure. I mean, the flip flopping is definitely scummy, but then he only really voted after pressure all around from people thought his noncommitement was scummy and those on the Richard wagon, a little bit.

Richard's last post reeks of desperation and kinda looks like an attempt to look town, but I think his vote for farside after him saying that he thinks a town farside would post like that is a bit weird.

I'll read over the thread again after I finish up this homework I have, but for now:

Unvote: Pomegranate, Vote: RichardGHP

Besides the lurking, this post is full of weak stances, something known as "playing it too careful". Notice the "Im not sure", "a little bit", "reeks", "kinda looks like", "a bit weird". The only strong stance is that flip flopping is definitely scummy, yet he is not sure about the player committing the scumtell.

[Anon]

I will post here tomorrow

[Anon]

boberz scream confused town trying to explain something he truly believed and failing in the attempt. stop wasting time with him.

The scumz lie between these guys:
bv, espeonage, nick, faraday, prob dybeck, and prob sando.

i mean, look at this scumbaggo bv, he doesnt even waste time defending himself. gogoog lynch.

vig, you already know who to target. tia.

[Anon]

Okay, I cna't find the post, but I know farside asked me who was scummy, so...

I think both Richard and Albert are scummy. Albert is just dicking around, making inane posts, either he's scum or just doing it to be a douchebag.

And Richard...I suspect him, because when has he even acted pro-town?

Unvote Vote: Nick.

Even more sure than I am of bv.

[Anon]

I havent even read the wallotexting this thread is evolving into.

But seriously, this wagon has a lot of scummy people its not even funny.

RichardGHP (6) -- Porochaz, Faraday, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate, boberz

I think if richardscum bussers should have already gone to other viable choices. Just only analyzing tis wagon, we have richard likely town.

[Anon]

Ill give it a look. No love for Nikscum?

[Anon]

Ok time to sort this mess:

RichardGHP (6) -- Porochaz, Faraday, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate, boberz

Seriously if there is someone townie in this wagon, get out of it like now. The people that is voting on this wagon should be reason enough to realize that richard is being an easy target and that I am prob right about him being newb town failing hard.

bv310 (4) -- Papa Zito, Seraphim, Espeonage, curiouskarmadog

This wagon still has its merits. BV hasnt done anything remarkably protown. This is a good wagon.

Espeonage (1) -- Ojanen
dybeck (1) -- Sando
NickF227 (2) -- Jahudo, Anon
Seraphim (2) -- Amished, Javert
boberz (2) -- dybeck, RichardGHP
Pomegranate (2) -- farside22, Albert B. Rampage

And the separation begins. I see good cases against espeonage, dybeck, nick and pome. I wouldnt be surprised if most of them are scum. On the other hand, boberz and Seraphim are prob town, so I wont be supporting any of these.

Voting separation is good when we are away from deadline but right now we need to get a consensus besides the richard scummy wagon. Even If Im more sure about Nick being scum, we need to start getting together before its too late.

Of all the possible wagons, bv is the best option, followed by Nick and Pome. I would support any of these three.

In fact,

Unvote Vote: bv310

[Anon]

I agree with this post.

Vote: Pomegranate.

[Anon]

I updated my list of people I would kill if I were a 5 shoy-dayvig

Pomegaranate
Espeonage
Nick
Sando
Faraday

Id be very surprised if Richard is scum. Besides my probtown read that Im fine with people not getting, his d1 wagon was full of shady people. I think thats the key there.

Seraphim obvtown, Javert is bothering me some. Javert, what are your opinions on the current things here, Pome, Espe, Nick?

[Anon]

Pomegranate, claim please.

[Anon]

Hey Ojanen, don't you want to know why Pom suspects me too?

Let me say that I don't suspect you much more than most people. But you frustrate me a lot- it's hard for me to work with players with your type of playstyle- I'm not used to it. It's hard for me to get a read on you. And the way that you're all excited to ride my wagon today- it seems like possibley excited scum ready to ride an easy town wagon.

Anon has asked me to claim, and Nick and Richard mentioned it in their posts. I would like to hear from more players though(, 'specially ones I have a good read on).

Working on explaianing my opinion on Espe now.

CLAIM.

[Anon]

Being insanely busy and my internetzz working when it wants, makes me post this antiprod post with sadness.

Ill be back online tomorrow.

[Anon]

Finally back.

Ok, I was going to give Pome a day, maybe two to optimize the play in case she is town but I really really really like really think she is scum.

Lets see, you have a massive wagon growing fast against you, the type of wagon that if you claim vanilla you die. I still dont understand why as town you would wait to L-1 to claim power role, but thats just me, i guess. You even post this:

If I get to L-1, please at least give me a chance to claim, k?

And you fuck it up when you finally claim? And when people catch your inconsistency you finally recheck your role PM?

Stop this shit. Add previous massive scumread I had on her and lets just end this.

Confirm vote: Pomegranate.

[Anon]

Let me make an analysis of what makes me think Pome is scum.

Pometown would know she is a town power role. She knows power roles are important to the town. Why would she wait to L-1 to claim? Why would she say, please let me claim at L-1 when there were people, me included, telling her to claim? A town power role knows that her role can possibly be proven, other roles, for example, and that playing at L-1 is dangerous, see ckd. Yet, she kept playing the survival card.

Even worse, why would she not check her role PM before claiming to make sure there are no inconsistencies on it?

I cant stop thinking on this and while I think there are some townies in the let her alive clique, I think she is the play today.

[Anon]

No, you are not.

The point is that I really think Pome is scum. The inconsistency in the way she claimed is just the cherry on the top. We have her asking.artificial.question.for.the.lose, we have the late bv vote yesterday that screams cheap bussing, we have her in the lame Richard counterwagon, we have her in the list of zitokillables, we also have her in the illogical back and forth with Espeonage today.

Basically, imagining a Pometown is just a hard thing to do for me.

I dont even want to talk about the possibility of mafia having roleblockers or even nastier things.

Dybeck, do you have a reason to think Pome might actually be town here?

[Anon]

morons

[Anon]

ABR is seriously one of the worse players in the site.

GG, scum. Javert became obvscum as the game developed, you were right in killing me soon.

Thx Patric for the modding. GG all.

[Anon]

EBWOP

*worst

[Anon]

No, seriously. All the recent games Ive played with him he is a total freaking moron. Which annoys me more becuase I know he is not a moron, as Nick for example.