SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata (Game over!)

[Rifka Viveka]

My top suspects from a skimming of the thread are SK and sykedoc

townSK has played more aggressive in the past, and with less lurking. Specificly reference open 192(which i note isnt in his wiki but he did play in it) and i would bring up more references if i had search\wasnt lazy. i find it interesting in 182 he defends sykedoc for doing something he himself is doing.

sykedocs list of scummy actions is to numerous to repeat

docpotter doesnt look like scum to me. AFAIK the entire case on him starts with this post of his:

SSK, Tubby. Out of interest are you two in a quick chat of any sort and if so do your Post Restriction still aply?

pretty thin^

Unvote Vote saintkerrigan

[Rifka Viveka]

basis for voting me is based on a game which isn't in my wiki.

That is not the basis for voting you. Its the basis for a red flag on your name, which them makes me say, hmm this is suspicious. Then looknig at your actions in this game, which are lack of scumhunting, not being able to read it, excuses, blah blah

I believe I've already stated that I've had trouble reading this game

I think thats scummy(not to try)

Why is it interesting that I defended Sykedoc for not having a lot of reads early in the game?

In specific your defending an action i view as scummy, in general it looks like writing yourself a check to keep lurking.

I believe I've already stated that I've had trouble reading this game. I'm even considering replacing out because of it.

The games i have a hard time getting a handle on? Ive been scum. So it is relevant to your alignment that your not being particularly protown-a point you seem to concede in your own post.

[Rifka Viveka]

Just because you have a hard time getting a handle on games as scum does not mean that I suffer the same problem. I think this is an erroneous argument, here.

Nope, all players handle the challenge of being scum and fake scumhunting slightly differently from being town. Its not even an argument, its just a little side point i was referencing which you latch onto.

There has been a few players that gained and lost PR in this game. Nul i believe it was, replaced by amish, said he could only post 4 word sentences and amish isnt under that restriction. Im curious.

[Rifka Viveka]

Edit:actually it was dedicatedsribes post 127 i was referring to who was replaced by amished. Sorry for the error

[Rifka Viveka]

So since saintkerrigans slot is due to be replaced, making any case would be futile right now. But whoever replaces in, im not just forgetting about this i expect some protown things out of this slot

Unvote

My other suspect sykedoc, is doing what made my initially suspicious, which is a whole bunch of AtE. Asking to be lynched, the ''you will be sorry for lynching me'' defence used earlier'' and imo a lack of any pro town activity

vote: sykedoc

also your most recent post is of little interest to me sykedoc, your actions are independently scummy in THIS game.

[Rifka Viveka]

So since saintkerrigans slot is due to be replaced, making any case would be futile right now. But whoever replaces in, im not just forgetting about this i expect some protown things out of this slot

Unvote

My other suspect sykedoc, is doing what made my initially suspicious, which is a whole bunch of AtE. Asking to be lynched, the ''you will be sorry for lynching me'' defence used earlier'' and imo a lack of any pro town activity

vote: sykedoc

also your most recent post is of little interest to me sykedoc, your actions are independently scummy in THIS game.

Voting me based on a nulltell? At least Starbuck's post has some things in it.
This is opportunistic.

I disagree. Its not opportunistic because my first post here i mentioned you as a top suspect, and when my other top suspect replaced out, i joined a wagon that could be productive now. Its not like i said ''woah hey a wagon has started ill get on'' no i found you suspicious since square one

[Rifka Viveka]

ITT fishy attempts derail on docsyke case

amished>bogre

parama gains massive scum points

tubby216 anything to add to your vote?

tl;dr version:scum, scum everywhere and not a vig to shoot. Why is everyone replacing out btw?

[Rifka Viveka]

Yeah, hell with superficialness.

Unvote
Vote: Bogre

Llama, let's turn this game around

I just dont understand what he was saying there, hoped it was because I was just tired but I still dont in the morning. Either of his or your interpretations I can buy. Still like Parama lynch better though, and still hate the SD wagon

I could buy into a parama lynch. Id probably reread some stuff of him before voting tho

[Rifka Viveka]

Ok. Reading thread now.

I was looking at your predecessor for metascuminess(IMO) active lurking and being non-pro-town(which the defendant did not deny) please post in a pro town manner henceforth

Ani posts rvs vote on page 27?

[Rifka Viveka]

So the word "idiots" directed towards someone or someones IS ad hom.

Alright i cant take it anymore, i gotta address this. Please lets not get in a war about this but your use of ad hom is blatantly and repeatedly wrong.

Ad hom as defined in standard, acceptable dictionaries (such as wikipedia.org, for instance) is the practice of attacking a persons argument by undercutting the person themselves instead of addressing the argument.

"In reality, ad hominem is unrelated to sarcasm or personal abuse. Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. The mere presence of a personal attack does not indicate ad hominem: the attack must be used for the purpose of undermining the argument, or otherwise the logical fallacy isn't there. It is not a logical fallacy to attack someone; the fallacy comes from assuming that a personal attack is also necessarily an attack on that person's arguments"

So the word ''idiots" directed towards someone or someones IS NOT ad hom. It is a personal attack, and it is not acceptable depending on social rules where you are.

TL;DR: Ad hom is when you attack a persons argument by attacking the person advocating the argument and his character as a means of disproving the argument.

Thank you, that is all.

[Rifka Viveka]

Go ahead, lynch me for it. I dare you.
He's still not posting that often regardless. Whatever.

Everyone should vote me now.

I can assure you that today will not end with a lynch of me, though if you want to wagon me for a bit go ahead and do it.

ORLY?

[Rifka Viveka]

Wasnt Kairyuu already in this game? RE page 1

[Rifka Viveka]

Just checking in, i am still alive and well

[Rifka Viveka]

Offhand i would say leave him cause if he is telling the truth the scum have no choice but to kill him and even if he is scum cop his own scum have to act on his info at some point. Therefore he is dead no matter what now.

[Rifka Viveka]

If you still want to lynch me, go ahead, this game has been a disaster anyways.

You play to win the game. Hello?

[Rifka Viveka]

I figure to wait until he dies to follow up on guilty results, and im certain we could revisit the issue later if it looks like he isnt gonna die anytime soon. I dont see why we need to pull the trigger on him now

[Rifka Viveka]

I think people dismissing cases as ''meta based'' are straw manning as a way to dismiss the case without addressing the legitimately scum actions those players have committed. I have never seen sykedoc in another game and i know some other sykedoc wagon pushers are not basing it on meta either so its a pretty silly argument imo

[Rifka Viveka]

I was pushing on SK and noone cared to join in. I guess i didnt have enough rep to push a scum read :p
Very happy to rejoin a SK\CSL lynch

BTW case on syke is not meta.

[Rifka Viveka]

Maemuki, please speak english unless it's some sort of restriction...

Have you read this thread??

[Rifka Viveka]

@Spy - CSL is useless, I did have a slight town read on his predicessor though. Im going to assume that someone realizes useless people are the best to investigate since scum will never kill them then get stuck bumping off confirmed useless town or unconfrimed.

RBT is still the lynch. We will deal with CSL later.

I dont like how this looks like directing a PR. Useless people are what vig is for, right?

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka: Hint. Hint. LlamaFluff IS trying to direct a power role. He's also not wrong in his decision. What I don't like is that immediately after casting suspicion on him for doing it, YOU become a hypocrite and try to direct a vig.

Nope. My list of PRs is things like cop, tracker, doc. Vig is a scumish role i dont like as its often associated with fake claiming SKs\godfathers. Now if a vig targeted CSL and got watched, i wouldnt cry nearly as hard as i would if a say cop did.

[Rifka Viveka]

unvote
vote CSL

[Rifka Viveka]

The deadline is on the 22nd so we have 7 days btw

just saying, the last pages seem frenzied. Im trying to watch 24 and yur quick killin

[Rifka Viveka]

Looking for a replacement for My Milked Eek.

No, this.

[Rifka Viveka]

daykill FFFF?

[Rifka Viveka]

Possible. The first, well, I think the worst scum would pretend to have a restriction, but that's just me.

The second. Mmmm ... well, we have a volunteer day. The moderator is a bastard. It seems possible. I have to think about it. * notes *

By daykilling FFFF we will either kill lying scum or fail to kill, confirming a townie(thus forcing mafia to kill him at some point obv). It makes sense cause he is kinda a useless slot that will get himself lynched eventually

[Rifka Viveka]

By daykilling FFFF we will either kill lying scum or fail to kill, confirming a townie(thus forcing mafia to kill him at some point obv). It makes sense cause he is kinda a useless slot that will get himself lynched eventually

Same goes for PR people. I can't daykill all of Fuzzy,Mae,FFFF,Richard and Fishy, among with any others Ive forgotten.

Lê o tópico, por favor.

You really dont get it, do you.

[Rifka Viveka]

Just for the day though right? Like a 2 shot per day vig as you previously said?

[Rifka Viveka]

That's why I have been lurking. Not trying to attract much attention.

And I don't wanna daykill more then twice in a day, RF. I'm willing to Daykill a suspect if there is more then two, and I find 1 somewhat scummy.

Understood, i read this originally as a limit of two.

[Rifka Viveka]

I like FFFF\DN lynch

So

vote Deathnote

sykedoc seems a little more towny today

richardGHP=frustration replace?

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmm im not buying this claim.

Although one thing thats possible, there could be a whole bunch of cops\backups for nonexistent factions. Lets see a flip imo

[Rifka Viveka]

Is ani usually incompetent like this? Im trying to figure out if this is all feigned on his part to get away with a blatant kill or something...unfortunately i thought it was obvious DN was the one to be shot. I still dont understand the reasoning behind a full cop claiming to save a backup cop either. Very confusing day

[Rifka Viveka]

Bien vous voulez tuer dn maintenant ?

Woah, not so fast. Before any more DKs we should have several people clearly calling for the DK and then ani checks and asks for confirmation.

[Rifka Viveka]

argue yes and lynch me seeing two of two post players limited by the city were lined up as I am sure will last scum ... (sarcasm) wow do not let the thread exit Spyrex this city lost.

I got this off the translator linked to on google page, what translator are you using? Seems to be doing a better job.

ANyway.

Unvote Vote FFFF

[Rifka Viveka]

I just wish i Had not put in this post-term limit.

Huh does this say what i think it says? Stupid language barrier...
More FFFF votes

BTW Ani spyrex is pretty much town considering theres no scum motivation for his actions in a multiscum game. He could have just hit cruise control when he replaced in

[Rifka Viveka]

animorph1: shoot UncertainKitten

I gain MME's role. I'm a third party lyncher.

This will remove me from the game, and thusly get rid of all the third party bullshit I have to bring to the table.

[Rifka Viveka]

yep dont shoot yet ani until a majority says

I was about to argue we couldnt believe anything a third party says but its mod confirmed

[Rifka Viveka]

EBWOP: she didnt claim to inherit MME role in her first claim post tho

[Rifka Viveka]

Here's the thing. There are unverifiable things and verifiable things. Quite obviously it would have been verified that I was removed from the game if MME was lynched with me on his wagon. Now, the me getting his role if he dies any other way is unverifiable. That's why I didn't propose this course of action.

Heres my thing, you could have just made that part up as an afterthought after realizing we probably wouldnt go along with it.

It was pretty straightforward to me the best way to resolve this verifiably.

Because your not town, and not playing\strategizing with maximizing the towns winning percentages. First you come out with a demonstratbly anti-town plan(kill a town to remove a lyncher) then its revised later to be a 'backup' role to a strong townie if he dies.

[Rifka Viveka]

EBWOP: I know how we could verify your removal from the game;ani types ''daykill UK'' and the mod posts your role.

[Rifka Viveka]

Your still posting here?

FOS starbuck posting a commentless vote after lurking tons.

[Rifka Viveka]

checking in, its a little cold in here to type alot

current suspicions is dramonic\amished\pom

the MME\UK thing is hardcore bastardlyness

[Rifka Viveka]

Amished behavior seems more consistent with a player attempting to keep himself alive than a VT. Even though he requested to be lynched instead of shot, you know its much more difficult to actually get lynched than to just say that. Problem is it makes sense for both scum and VT to claim VT early in that situation...

[Rifka Viveka]

I disagree with mass claim

[Rifka Viveka]

Now this next play will either be a run or a pass-john madden

Humor aside, i think i understand what he(ani) is saying

spy, i was wondering about something. in a analysis post you posted last page, you mentioned me as possible kairyu scum buddy. why is that?

[Rifka Viveka]

@Spy - I petition RV to join unbreakable, he is in my top 5-non CSL partner, argueably top 3 (not to mention one of your unbreakables surprises me but im not getting into that right now). Mae only gets there if FFFF flips scum. Untill then just gets the "weak town read" stamp.

You mean this post by llamafluff?

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka:

I thought Kai was pushing for you too? Ohh god am I losing my mind again?

ctrl+f ISO kairyu only this snippet concerns myself\alliance;

...
The alliance currently consists of:

SpyreX
Llamafluff
Kairyuu
MME
sykedoc
ani
Rifka (assuming the petition has been accepted)

with potential additions of Mae, and possibly you as well.

If your going insane, im happy with said insane results. currently 5 dead scum to 6 dead townie. right now im trying to figure amished out...he is a tough nut to get dirt on but i have a gut feeling of scuminess.

[Rifka Viveka]

I like to think they were a result of being in the ''BIG BULLSEYE ON YOUR BACK ALLIANCE'' and got NKed for that. So...cause and effect?

Im fine with crediting town success to the most town player in the game...he has worked harder than anyone afaik.

[Rifka Viveka]

I think the problem here is that no one would be willing to replace into a slot like poms thats basically a 'replace, claim and die' mission.I have a feeling we will be sitting here a loong time waiting for someone to claim that slots role

fakevote pomegranate

[Rifka Viveka]

Democracy is overrated. Hail ceaser!

[Rifka Viveka]

I wonder if ani submits a daykill in the same post as a hammer vote on UK we can do both at once.

Dont really think there is a russian mafia either. By now there would have been a huge chance of someone accidentally nailing one atleast.

[Rifka Viveka]

Unvote Vote Uncertainkitten

Im ok with this cause the reasoning against being a game ender is solid and it takes a confirmed third party out and eliminates any possibility of gambity scum or something insane like that

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmmmm.

Rifka - Claim

It may be awhile, got some popcorn?

HEY

...

Vanilla town

No unique flavor

[Rifka Viveka]

You are reading too much into DD

[Rifka Viveka]

Is DD a good player or a VI? Also before i trudge through any of his wiki games, is it too damning a comment to waste time arguing against? Im to lazy to bother otherwise

Pretty sure the kill wont resolve on me unless im a secret miller or something silly.

[Rifka Viveka]

A backup SK? 0.o

I thought kills on VT didnt work, but if your so convinced id rather die today to make sure i keep the town win condition.

I maintain i am a VT, i dont know why DD said that shrug

[Rifka Viveka]

Where i play mafia, all actions like backup creation take place at night so even if i was a backup SK and didnt know i was, ive seen them keep town win condition until nightfall.

Little flaw in your JK plan is that the scum could hold a kill to get me lynched\shot anyway

[Rifka Viveka]

knew

it? Thats a strong word. He just implied doubt.

This by SC in the OP could easily cause DD to doubt his vanillaness as well

This is a closed setup, which means the only roles you will know in advance are your own and that of any other player I mention in your role PM. All other role information is secret, including how many players with a certain role exist and

even if the role exists in the first place

. Yes, a game with absolutely no vanilla townies is possible. It's been done before.

[Rifka Viveka]

Lack of flexibility. It would go to night and we couldnt talk\plan. If we shoot first then lynch, we could still have the option to possibly shoot or whatever. More credit UK for mentioning that...

Or thats my interpretation

[Rifka Viveka]

Well if im the one getting shot, no worries of ending the game then.

Unless you think im scum thats only playing to deprive you of win or something.

[Rifka Viveka]

It's in order. If ani hammers first, the daykill doesn't go off. If he shoots first, and wins, I don't get hammered.

Rats, my plan to cut you out of the win by getting shot has been foiled

(Its a JOKE)

[Rifka Viveka]

I have a few theories but ill just shut up and keep em to myself

[Rifka Viveka]

Im not sure if i buy that story spy, it would be interesting to see this game take another path and see how ruthless you could be

[Rifka Viveka]

Spyrex=mafia would be epically awesome. What a move it would be to stick himself and ani out there with no guarantee of having 2 protectors like we have claimed

I wouldnt believe it until i saw it

[Rifka Viveka]

Right now process of elimination leaves amished as my top suspect via scumhunting. If there actually is a russian mafia it changes things here, tho

According to the russian guilty on jahudo, i could see that make sense for a drunken russia mafia PR. Not sure what to make of the earlier investigations on miller-mae, im guessing mod-created-wifom for now

[Rifka Viveka]

Whats your case on Amished? My memory is shot.

I dont have much of a case typed up except assuming there is only one mafia player left, pretty much everyone else looks townish. Also from earlier, i still have a gut scum read

Speaking of gut scum read, jahudo is doing a number on me right now. He just look town

[Rifka Viveka]

But the target would still die, right?

With this many\few players left, it could be an option.

[Rifka Viveka]

I received an award for most improved in school once-i still have that trophy on my shelf. Good times.

...

Assuming there is a russian 3 man mafia for arguments sake, i would bet dollars to donuts one of our ''doctors'' is a mafia fakeclaiming(or maybe truthclaiming, see a dead scum doc already) might want to consider telling them who to target from now on(ani\spy or ivy if we see russian flip)

starbuck is still in this game, right? Id like to see some content cause its kinda hard to read a nonexistant player

[Rifka Viveka]

Right now i see two courses of actions;

lynch jahudo without shooting anyone. ani will probably survive night so we can shoot people tomorrow(really need to see the flip before making a ton of decisions wrt shooting)

leave jahudo\ivy for now and try to target last american mafia. If we hit merican and win, goodie. If we miss(or hit and game continues) ani should still survive giving us minimum two lynches tomorrow(normal lynch+shooting a PR if needed)

---

NK speculation:assuming the last mafia is american, it most certainly isnt a doc role. so he could have killed llama, a good town player hoping when two doctors(popular scum fake claim) are still alive, they would be shot. Especially since shooting both doctors(yes i know one is JK) was discussed yesterday

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka:


So you think that the last American Mafia is both not post restricted AND a Power Role? Any reasons?

You would have to be more specific where i said the last remaining wasnt a PR, but im sure with an American doctor dead they wouldnt have another doctor.

[Rifka Viveka]

Obviously if the american mafia is the final mafia player there wont be any shooting again.

(or hit and game continues)

In this scenario, a 3 man russian mafia exists, consisting of the already-fingered russian post restricted goon and two unknowns. Instead of having a post restricted goon like greeks the americans had a doc. I doubt americans would have a doc AND a PR cause the greeks only had a PR and it wouldnt be anywhere near balanced to have both.

[Rifka Viveka]

If peeps dont wanna vote,

Im thinking votes dont mean anything in this situation unless your ready to go out and lynch someone. Right now we are part waiting for the Return of the Emperor and partly waiting to make decisions on what to do. Cause when we do make a decision, the votes will pile on very easily, i expect

Im starting to really like a starbuck lynch

[Rifka Viveka]

Did ivy claim any of this flavor detail previously?

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmm if there is a russian mafia, they have this game under lock and key

Starbuck is still obv scum

[Rifka Viveka]

Basically just waiting for ''D-DAY'' on voting starbuck.

[Rifka Viveka]

omgus!!

vote starbuck

---

I have no questions for the defendant at this time

[Rifka Viveka]

Not sure if anyone noticed but its 6 votes out of 8 total to lynch starbuck.

*begins sharpening a knife* Yum lunch.

[Rifka Viveka]

Ill believe starbuck is town when the mod posts so. Its too often lynched mafia claim to be town to mess with peoples heads.

[Rifka Viveka]

My favorite kind of game, i didnt need to work. We need more unbreakable alliances around this place

[Rifka Viveka]

I dont trust my role.

ITT DD breadcrumbs a not-vanilla role as vanilla

[Rifka Viveka]

I can never really understand people doing as town. I just didnt know what to do after that.

Thats probably exactly why he did it...