Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[Plum]

All right, everyone. I'm new here and to help me adjust, could everyone put down their top 2-3 suspects, preferably in order, with an explanation of a sentence or less for each? Thanks.

[Plum]

Day 2 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Starbuck ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 1 ) VP Baltar
VP Baltar ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 12 ) Kise DeathRowKitty Plum Nicodemus fhqwhads Maelyn animorpherv1 Lowell Jack Elmo Starbuck Anon
Total ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

Read the thread. it's short.

I'm not saying I won't read the thread; I plan to do so over the course of tonight (and tomorrow night if necessary). Think of this as an 'in addition to' which will help me further get a feel for the game and might otherwise contribute to scumhunting. I certainly see no harm coming from it.

[Plum]

Plum, why are you lurking so hard this game? Is your jury duty and all of that business done now? Have you read this thread yet? Why do you think you were deported?

Limited computer availability plus the need to catch up on sleep conspired against me, and especially against me doing a 17-odd page reread. Not sure why I was deported. I assume that some WIFOM-gambler of a Teleporter either thought along Myk's lines, that I wasn't so integrated into the game because I was catching up, or subscribed to the alternate theory tactic and mistakenly thought I was scum. It seems we had two teleports (or two pulls?) so Kai's plan isn't working to its effect, or whatever screwey stuff happened with DGB's death is playing into it or the scum screwed stuff up for us (unlikely).

Which makes me think. I like Kai's plan, but if the Verses aren't on the proper schedule how the heck are we going to work it out?

But now, here goes a reread. Scummy things or just WTH things:

Honestly the biggest problem I see with kairyuus plan is the teleporter wont' WANT to do it. Being teleporter seems like it would be fun.

So the biggest problem with the plan is that the Teleporter won't want to play to his/her wincon? Is this subtle dissuasion from a town-beneficial plan for no good reason masquerading as support of said plan?

It's funny that I'm now in the Universe I dissed for dissing my old Verse.

I dislike Elmo's glee at the idea of a race to see which Verse can lynch first.

Ani doesn't engage much in the teleportation theory discussion (null) but does repeatedly suggest we look at the MtG games multiple times. He provides links but doesn't report any conclusions of his own. Trying to appear helpful but not actually helping? He comes up with a catchy acronym for someone else's suggestion but doesn't give his opinion on it or, like, anything. But his response to getting called town rings Townie . . .

I'd bet on Elli-town. He's in the other Verse, but. Still. Didn't feel the need to elaborate (he marked a lot of players prob-Town very early on, and from what I know about playing scum I know scum hate hate hate limiting their/the Town's mislynch options and prefer to stay far away from anything which could narrow it at all - but then Jahudo quotes Elli as saying:

Also he’s been quicker to declare people town. It’s early so this isn’t a strong tell for me, but scum have an easier time calling people town because they’d be telling the truth. But he’s been doing this more than anyone else, so I am somewhat suspicious of him.

Maybe as scum Elli declares lots of Townies Town? I'll downgrade that thought to null, for now.

Am leaning Kai-Town, too, but am somewhat more wary of him. He seems to be trying to find breaks in the game good for the Towns, but it's a fair possibility that he so enjoys theory discussions and is so good that them that he could honestly fake it this well as scum.

Ani admits that in the MtG stuff he brought up he was being his usual brilliant self. I am uncertain I can distinguish VI Ani from scum-slippery Ani.

Ah, DRK picked up the thought I share on Lowell. It turns out that his response is at least as interesting as his original statement:

@DRK- this game looks too cool. I'm not about to be the first one lynched!

Honestly, I cannot see a Townie reacting to one single vote on him quite like this, and the exclamation point just makes me nauseus. He attempts to explain his offense but it doesn't really change my feelings on it . . . and . . . this post is going to make me cough up blood it's that shady.

Vote: Lowell

Am unimpressed by Nico's attack on DRK's hunting in Verse 1.

I think we need to scumhunt more today rather than talk about strategy, because we don't know whether the strategy put forward is coming from town or scum. See what I mean?

Oh, brilliant. Problem is

I don't think you have actually scumhunted yourself, have you

? Certainly not in that post.

Btw, that slip REALLY looks bad. If you really are town, you should be fine if (probably at a later time though) you got lynched, because scum's going to be wifoming and twisting that slip to make you look bad and misdirect town.

This post rubs me the wrong way. Suggesting to Myk that he should be almost grateful to get lynched becaue the slip looks "REALLY bad" but not being clear whether he actually thinks that Myk is scum or town because of it . . .

Yeah, you guys kinda sucked in activity level.

Maelyn, would you consider, I don't know, PLAYING THIS GAME? SCUMHUNTING? Elli too, for that matter, sucks in the actual looking like you give a damn department. Though Elli claims that active lurking Maelyn is par for the course on both them hydra partners . . . gah. Useless Verse is being so useless around page 11.

Elmo quotes Lowell:

I have ani, anon, and ellibereth as town. Jack, Doc, and mae scum. Others I'm still working on.

If Lowell is scum, one scum in {Jack,

Doc

, Mae} and Doc is dead. But that's a give-or-take, and Lowell's the culprit here and stinks of sulfur and brimstone and whatnot. And Elmo makes another decent point on Lowell:

I have ani, anon, and ellibereth as town. Jack, Doc, and mae scum. Others I'm still working on.

I'm shuffling jack lower on my scum list. He gets points for bringing up new ideas, even if they're not all on the mark.

Sorry, what new ideas did he bring up between 188 and 236 that would justify doing that? He'd pretty much said his piece

before

188, that I can see - it looks like you're suddenly voicing less suspicion of Jack for no apparent reason, right after I started attacking him. Why is that, Lowell?

See, there may well be scumtells buried in the strategy discussion, but enough of my precious brain cells died trying to pick through that in the other Verse Day 1 with minimal-ish results. Combined with all the new faces I'm trying to keep straight, well, I've let a lot of it sweep over my head, but the stuff on Lowell has been the meat of a good game's scumhunting, strategy discussion or no. Enough people are saying stuff about Jack which I can't quite get a grasp of this time around; it's like skimming a novel and you get the impression that a character has done something but for the life of you you can't quite feel what it could possibly have been.

I'm getting cabin fever here.

Unvote:nicodemus, vote:DocPotter

Let's put our cards on the table. If you are in favor of putting DocPotter at lynch-1 then vote him till he is, if not then say so explicitly.

This bugs the hell out of me, as this came a good six days prior to deadline. Why in such a hurry for a lynch, why in such a hurry to press people to vote for Doc, Jack???

Is Kise in this game or what?

The appeal to meta thing is usually kind of scummy, but I see nothing wrong with using it as a last effort to avoid lynch.

WTH? Can you more fully explain why this made you change your mind so hard please? Because the above quote is nigh senseless and puts me in mind of a scumbag wanting clean hands when a Townie is almost certainly going down without scum's overt push. Scarily, Lowell thinks the same.

... Okay, DRK, I see you explain more fully and until further info I'll treat the incident as null. I know the feeling of knowing someone's meta, or feeling that you do, or even having a strong gut related to that and acting on it. As a Townie I have known this feeling. Nevertheless, I am not sure how scummy voting DRK for this actually is, either. Grargh.

Jack's continuous unbacked suggestions that people seem scummy or whatever for unexplained gut are getting wearisome and annoying and looking scummish.

VP Baltar's entrance strengthens my convictions of Kairyuu-slot-Town.

And Jack's sudden switch to Elmo, who had been garnering no attention (not exactly sure what that means for Elmo either way) after having switched to DRK after having tried to stir up a lynch - not a wagon, but really attempt a lynch, bar the doors and spit out why if you don't like it lynch - against Doc . . . UGH. I could vote him, too, right now, just about. This wagon hopping to a guy with no votes THAT CLOSE TO DEADLINE is horrid horrid horrid.

VP Baltar had better be Town with the read I'm getting on him. His case and Elmo's, between them, cover most of the points on them quite well, though for the points against him stuck in the strategy discussion I'll have to look that bit over again myself (tomorrow?) to check that it looks nice and scummy in the original, too. The vote-hopping and late-day vote on Elmo are stuff which are blatantly and ridiculously scummy.

And Lowell is acting like a vacuum. And you know, nature abhors a vacuum, especially one that used to be scummy and now has gone under the radar. He does show up to vote Doc, doesn't mention the new discussions springing up around Jack at all except saying that Elmo's posts have been rubbing him wrong. I'd prefer a lynch of Lowell by a hair, but if everyone else wants to get Jack today, that's cool too.

Jack has gone from vocal fighter to just uncooperative and stubborn.

And that = scum, such that you would have joined the Jack cause yesterday had you been around?

The Lowell-Jack wagoning team is making my skin positively crawl.

I've done no reading of the other thread. Off the top of my head I'd say elmo and VP scum, jack a possibility.

Elaborate on VP and Jack. I've already been unimpressed by your Elmo case. Oh, nevermind, I'm similarly unimpressed by your VP case. I've known plenty of Townies to dominate conversation and/or attempt to do so, and often they've been very helpful (or at least hurtful to the scum). I don't see the 'excessively meta' thing like at all.

Nice to see VP implemented my request; it is insight-giving, and yes, even more so after having plowed through the whole thread.

Eh, VP, I've been in a hydra, as Town, and lurked a heck of a lot (I think what happened was I was never getting a feel for the game, and neither was my hydra-buddy Pom, and was sometimes busy and never in a mood to catch up) and while I agree with you that the lurking is bad, Lowell and Jack have been way way way worse.

There's a party on the Jack wagon and no one on Lowell. We can go lynch Jack and tackle the Lowell issue tomorrow, if that makes everyone happier.

Unvote; Vote: Jack

[Plum]

With pleasure.

[Plum]

FOR UNIVERSE ONE

My friends:

On the DGB wagon, my worst vibes were on Rhinox and Fishy.

Someone needs to be the hero and find something resembling a decent meta on CSL indicating that he's Town, or, barring that, the Town needs to grow a pair and lynch him because for once I feel like agreeing with the whole policy lynch business, and that's saying something.

I miss you guys because in this Universe we get like one page a day, not between three and five.

He's probably bussing his buddies like he said he would too.

If he's scum (not unlikely) this is certainly the case (I've known the intense desire to bus as scum myself and it's very hard to shake off). Put together Evilsnail, Fishy, CSL, Rhinox, there ought to be 2/3 of the scumbags in that group.

Your dearly departed,

Plum

Kise: I remember commenting after DGB claimed as soon as I was able. Oh, looking back, I recall that DGB claimed while I was off the site; I always am (as is my sister Pom) between Friday afternoon and DSaturday evening for religious reasons.

Just to quote a grand post:

Are my eyes glazing or did Jack just basically claim scum.

@the other universe:

I don't know about evilsnails alignment, but I can say that playing styles do change after a long absence. If I'd been asked that question at the beginning of this game I'd probably have said I lurked as mafia, but I've hardly lurked at all this game.

LYNCH TIME PLZ.

[Plum]

---------[]

[Plum]

Vote: Lowell

, please refer back to my first big post for reasons. I'm planning to comb the end of the Jack wagon for anyone who seemed to know/think that he would flip Town after his prior play and his apparent slip.

Lowell, why is the NK a (bit of a) surprise, please?

Also Lowell, could you give some examples of Elmo under pressure and the wagons that formed and absolved him of having to explain? What suspicions were being faced by Elmo, anyway (I mean legitimate attacks, obviously)?

[Plum]

@plum- because I assumed they'd kill you, since you're potentially on the other scum team.

Also, I hate getting blamed for NOT being on a wagon that turned up town. I didn't vote for jack originally because I thought he was bringing up good points against other players and the inevitability of the wagon on him seemed suspect. Obviously this cuts both ways. If I was on the wagon you could as easily say "Lowell led the wagon! Kill him!".

1. But why would they care? If I'm scum from the other Universe I'm alone and unlikely to kill in this game (anyway, if I were scum and I did that, and there were two kills last Night I would have completely incriminated myself) and further more would have as little clue as any Townie who the Mafia in this Verse are. Basically, I've got no clue why you'd actually have thought that they'd have really wanted me dead even if they thought I was likely (not just potentially) other-Mafia.

2. Whoa wait, I did not accuse you of anything, and frankly am not interested in looking at much until after Jack's apparent scumslip was pointed out; if after that (especially in light of his overall play) someone tried to defend him or in any other way seemed to indicate that Jack might flip Town and that the possibility of such was less than remote, well, I'd be suspicious. I checked to make sure I recalled correctly: you didn't have any posts yesterday after Jack's apparent slip, so you're not even where I'm looking right now.

But your extreme defensiveness on the subject - where did you see any indication that I was attacking you or indeed any specific player for not being on the Jack wagon? - makes me the more confident in my vote. And I was already fairly confident. Pity Search is down, as it might take me a while to see whether it can be definitively said that you lurked through Jack's claim and lynch or not.

Still knowing nothing about plum, its pays to keep him alive here as long as possible.

What do you mean by this? Why?

[Plum]

Oh, and why did 1224 look like a scumslip to you?

[Plum]

Hmmm. I thought I implied that my reasons were all in my first big post, but this line of argument would go nowhere new, so I'll leave it as it stands.

Still waiting for you to explain why you thought the scum would rather attempt a long-shot crosskill on me than kill a player like VP Baltar. Also waiting for you to explain why you're so interested in keeping me alive as long as possible.

[Plum]

It's much much weaker than Jack's "slip" and even that one was not as foolproof as we thought. Kise, can I get some thoughts from you on THIS Verse? Who'd be your top scum pick(s)?

[Plum]

I'll hammer after Jack claims, or 24 hours (whichever comes first).

Scumpoints for Ani.

You know, I want to grant VP Baltar his dying request and learn to love Verse 2, but the activity here is PATHETIC AND I AM ALMOST ASHAMED OF ALL OF YOU. CAN WE STOP LURKING AND EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A FREAKING LOCK TO HAND SCUM THE GAME IF Y'ALL KEEP IT UP. SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE TRULY BUSY, BUT I'M SURE THERE SHOULD BE MORE THAN THREE PEOPLE HERE WHO GIVE A DAMN AND HAVE THE TIME TO SHOW IT.

[/capslock of rage]

[Plum]

^^^ this looks like a potential scum setup. Next comes a vote "granting VPs dying request" and--oops-- stringing up more town.

What? I can't understand what you're trying to say here.

[Plum]

Lowell, are you willing to answer any of my questions or what?

[Plum]

Loweel:

^^^ this looks like a potential scum setup. Next comes a vote "granting VPs dying request" and--oops-- stringing up more town.

What? I can't understand what you're trying to say here.

Still knowing nothing about plum, its pays to keep him alive here as long as possible.

What do you mean by this? Why?[/quote]

Still waiting for you to explain why you thought the scum would rather attempt a long-shot crosskill on me than kill a player like VP Baltar.

---

Vote: animorpherv.

Why?

@Mod

: Where is everyone, anyway?

All this said, Ani is gaining scumpoints for lurkking when he's under pressure (almost certain I've seen him around the site in a manner greater than minimal).

[Plum]

1. Okay, I was confused because you were using a phrase I had used in a different context.

2. and 3. Okay as well.

[Plum]

Ani, who's your top suspect at this point and why?

[Plum]

Scumreads: Lowell, Kise, maybe ani. Fwfggsdfwegfy could go, too. I am still standing by my read of Lowell. Please guys.

Nico: No one's doing nearly enough to help the Town and that sucks. I include myself in that statement.

[Plum]

Vote: fhq

VOTE: STARBUCK

[Plum]

Oh, hi Rhinox. I'm betting you're scum from my old Uni, but that's not my problem right now.

[Plum]

Unvote; Vote: Lowell

Forget it, I'm not letting scum worm his way out of my grasp again. That last post reeked of scum caution, scum trying hard to look good and Townie without actually being good and Townie.

[Plum]

Also the Ani wagon is going way way too easily and I don't feel any bussing happening here. I'd wager that if Lowell is scum (I'm about %90 on that one now) DRK might well be, too.

[Plum]

Day 4 Vote Count

springlulaby ( 3 ) fefifofum DeathRowKitty Lowell
Nachomamma8 ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 1 ) springlulaby
Plum ( 0 )
fefifofum ( 1 ) Rhinox
Kise ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Lowell ( 1 ) Plum
Not Voting ( 2 ) Kise Nachomamma8
Total ( 8 )

With 8 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 15th 11:00 EST

Gogogogogo Lowell wagon. Just between me and everyone here it's an excellent one.

[Plum]

I call FFFF bussing, but it doesn't matter until after a Lowell flip.

[Plum]

Kise, if you're talking about me, recall that I can't be scumbuddies with Lowell at all anyway.

Nice job explaining what's been asked of you, Lowell.

[Plum]

Agreed.

[Plum]

Confirm bussing. Scum locked in. All systems are go.

[Plum]

Lets say there were 3 scum left in this Verse yesterday. That means they tried to Teleport SL out for the win and got screwed by our Teleporter. That would mean we have two Uni 2 scum left today (this is regardless of what you think of me). In that case we either need to lynch right today, meaning lynch Uni 2 scum today.

If there were 2 Uni 2 scum left yesterday, then they would have used their Teleport aiming for LYLO. I don't think they'd have done this unless the Teleporter was under some amount of pressure; that would probably be FFFF in that case.

DRK is scum; luckily she's not our problem at the moment. Here's the thing: DRK defends Anon against Ani pretty extensively - something I see as rather unlikely for her to do with a buddy. That means Nacho is more likely Town.

With Kise it's a bit different; he barely says anything to/about DRK and she says little to/about him. But more shady, but that pales in comparison to FFFF/DRK. Just to give you a sampling:

Oh, wow, fawfawefasdklfa is at L-1. Right now, all I have on him is a weak gut scum read on him, whereas we have solid reasoning on ani. Then again, a weak anything read is more than I have on some people in this game.

Roughly my order of "I want to see this person lynched"
animorpherv1
fhqwhads
Kise
Nicodemus
Starbuck
Anon
FeFiFoFum
Lowell
Plum (if she's scum, she's likely to be dealt with by one of the scum teams)

Also, irrelevant, but there's a typo in the following rule:

7. There will be a quicktime for the dead.

Gut scum read, which is more than she has on some people . . . namely two, me and Lowell. He's definitely at the bottom of her list.

Vote: ani

. Definitely the best lynch candidate we have.

Ffff is quickly rising in scumminess though. Lowell's WIFOM aside, ffff has no joined two wagons with no reasoning and seems to have barely read the game, if at all. Bandwagoning people that look like they might be lynched without knowing what's going on=bad.

(I will give you ffff though. Whereas I didn't find Elmo scummy, I have serious doubts as to whether ffff even read the game. He sounds like he's just parotting thoughts from other players with no real substance to his posts.)

Meh at ffff's summary of the ani case. Looks too much like it was stolen word-for-word from other people.

My scumlist from 3 pages ago. Good to know you read my posts so closely.

Move ffff a few spots higher. Maybe move Starbuck a spot lower, but not much important has happened since then.

I could see a FFFF-SL scum team. I could see SL telling FFFF to bus when he replaced in and I can see FFFF taking the opportunity to get his vote off his buddy by voting Lowell.

Unless someone comes up with some sort of decent explanation as to how Lowell is scummier than SL, I don't see why we aren't lynching her. If/when she flips scum, it has the added benefit of making FFFF almost obv-scum.

Notice the progression of mild aggression without acting on it. I call distancing. FFFF is clearly the best candidate for scum-with-DRK.

I'm not scum and I don't believe I've ever been asked to answer to specific issues there; if you have specific problems manifested here, or in Uni 1, I'd be glad to address them.

[Plum]

Nah, I suspect FFFF, Kise has an outside chance of being scum, and you're very very unlikely to be scum.

[Plum]

I'm quite ready, and I'm pretty sure this is for the win.

Vote: FeFiFoFum

[Plum]

EBWOP: Sorry DRK for referring to you in the feminine.