R-SURVIVAL -- Game Over

[charter]

Does anyone want to be gatekeeper? There's no one on the list that I feel compelled to elect.

[charter]

vote bird

I've been waiting a while to do that again.

unvote, vote ortolan

For criticizing someone else for not making a serious post, while making a useless one himself.

Strategy time, can we win this by just confirming people as dayvigs? As in, we play a bit, get a few scummy people, then force a scummy person to vig another one. If they can't, they are scum, and we get another scummy person to vig them? Just keep going until we vig twice and get two confirmed town, and two dead people (hopefully at least one scum).

I think this will probably hinge on how well we vig and how many mafia there are. I don't think we would have more than five mafia. When I get more time, I will try and figure out if this is foolproof or what.

[charter]

From what I gather, all townies have a one shot vig, and no mafia do. I don't see where you guys are getting this 'mafia can shoot' or 'town shoots blanks' stuff from.

I haven't checked bird's math, but from a cursory glance, I think we can improve the odds he lists by a little bit by putting the confirmed townies in the GAT, since the mafia will then have to randomly hit one of them to kill them, which will improve their chances of survival a little bit.

From reading further, that seems to be what Semioldguy is saying. Will have more time later.

[charter]

Forgot about this game, I'll try and give it a read once I cool down and realize that the people in this game (hopefully) are a smart rational group.

[charter]

unvote, vote Ellibereth

I think Cobalt and Ellibereth and HH are scum.
I think bird and SOG are town.

Cobalt because there is no scumhunting, just drivel about the GAT.
Ellibereth because there is no scumhunting, just drivel about lurkers.
HH because he's playing pretty passively.

I'm actually kind of wondering why I was left out of Ellibereth's lurker lists. Why?

I'm about an inch away from vigging Cobalt. Cobalt, you should use your next post wisely.

[charter]

Charter- why vote Ellibereth over Cobalt if you're threatening Colbalt with a vig?

Ellibereth has a vote I think, so it seems to be better to pile on Ellibereth. Plus it will be pointless to vote Cobalt if he does get shot soon.

Who are you most suspicious of right now and why?
Why haven't you voted yet, what are you waiting for?

[charter]

DAYKILL COBALT

[charter]

I didn't realize two kills ended the day. You're being dumb orto, no scum would post nothing then just daykill.

[charter]

charter how were you able to read Cobalt?

Because I use my brain.

Ortolan, if you're vigging anyone you should vig yourself. You've been completely useless this entire game. So has dramonic.

For now,

vote HackerHuck

. I'm also suspicious of Bogre.

I would love a Dragons vig of Ellibereth more than anything right now. Dragons, what do you think about this? Ellibereth, what do you think of this?

Anyhow, I still think SOG is town and chamber is obvtown.

[charter]

Ortolan, if you're vigging anyone you should vig yourself. You've been completely useless this entire game. So has dramonic.

well according to your logic everyone but yourself has been useless...congrats on vigging scum though. I agree that Ellibereth was the player I am most inclined to vig.

I'm saying that you specifically are not doing much of anything, most of your posts are about figuring out if the setup is open or pointless poles about rolefishing. Saying that anyone who doesn't vig scum is useless is obviously not true.

Charter, why dragon?

Don't think he's town. Do you have any other comments about my idea?

Bogre, it's because of your posts after Cobalt died, could be trying to get town cred, coupled with mostly just lurking and you don't look very protown.

[charter]

Why do people want to vig Nacho?

[charter]

I don't think we should vig straightaway today. I think we can easily kill/out two scum today, but it will require a bit of patience.
Especially wait until malpascp posts/is replaced.

MOD, can you prod/replace malpascp

Ortolan, you think that Nacho is the scummiest because everyone else is

not

scummy? That seems really tough to swallow. What do you think of Dragons, Hackerhuck, Ellibereth, dramonic, and Bogre?

[charter]

Charter - what tipped the scales for you on Cobalt?

His next post was a useless PBPA on a townie. I didn't even read what he said. Didn't use it wisely at all.

[charter]

So you don't think that me and chamber are town? I'd love to hear your reasons why.

My two cents on why bird was killed was he was really obviously town.

[charter]

I don't know what you want me to tell you, I pretty much summed it up yesterday, all he was doing was talking about the GAT. Was pretty textbook scum play.

I didn't know Cobalt was scum, I made an educated guess, which is what I said before.

[charter]

Why is nobody voting?

[charter]

Ortolan - do you think we're better off questioning Charter or someone who hasn't used their vig yet?

Good question.

I agree with DragonsofSummer that if we want to make people shoot, they should shoot who they find suspicious, not who everyone else decides. The idea being that we are making suspicious people shoot in hopes of catching someone who can't.

What we ideally want to do IS force people to vig who we want. We want a scummy person vigging another scummy person. That way, we eliminate a scummy person, and feel better about the other one. If the person who vigs is a scumvig, we've taken that power away from them, which is invaluable.

I'm currently finding Dragons the most suspicious. Lurking but posting in other games. Zero content in this game and zero scumhunting. Probably scum.

unvote, vote dramonic

Step it up.

[charter]

There's no typo. You're doing nothing in this game, I'm voting you because of it.

I'd wager Dragons is scum.

[charter]

I think the next person that posts without some attempt at scumhunting should be shot. It's becoming impossible to sort out the active town lurkers from active scum lurkers.

MOD, any update on malpascp?

dramonic, your top two suspects and why please.
Bogre, same thing.

[charter]

@Everyone not voting, why are you not voting? Who is most suspicious to you?

[charter]

Well, I still want a dragons death of some form at some point. Scummy as hell.

unvote, vote Ellibereth

Back to this plan.

[charter]

unvote, vote Dragons

Scummiest person alive.

[charter]

Someone shoot dragons or let's lynch him. If scum have a shot, he's the one.

[charter]

I'm town. Thats all I have to say, but you can't really be that upset I killed dramonic can you?

vote Ortolan

You could have shot someone scummy rather than a lurker. Ortolan is town as well.

[charter]

chamber is probtown, he shouldn't be shot.

I think that our last scum/s is between Dragons, Bogre, HH, Anon.

Need to see what HH flips and think about who to GAT/vote.

[charter]

Lack of protownness.

[charter]

I think chamber is town because he shot the person that Cobalt just went out on a limb to vote. It would have made like 100000 times more sense for him to have killed malspc or another lurker. It wouldn't have made Cobalt look as bad as he did after his pbpa on Parama.

Plus, scum killing a lurker first thing day one doesn't seem like that great of use of their day kill if they had one. I'm betting they'd try and save it until they thought they were about to die.

Yeah, I'd shed no tears if Bogre died.

Something I just thought of, might be worth thinking about, is getting those that haven't shot to shoot others that haven't shot. That way we eliminate this 'scum might have shots' paranoia. Just a thought, more from me later.

[charter]

Something I just thought of, might be worth thinking about, is getting those that haven't shot to shoot others that haven't shot. That way we eliminate this 'scum might have shots' paranoia. Just a thought, more from me later.

Something else, this also eliminates any scum that can't shoot. Any comments on this idea?

As far as GAT, I don't really care. I guess I have a slight preference to GAT someone we're about to kill.

[charter]

I still think ortolan is town. Someone just shoot and end this. It'd be amazing if Anon shot Bogre or the other way around.

[charter]

Who hasn't shot yet?

[charter]

I think semi should shoot Anon, then we lynch someone.

[charter]

Lol, I forgot about Dragons.

So SOG is the only one with a shot still? I guess it's up to him, but if he's taking requests, mine is for Dragons. I also think that we need to make sure he shoots before lynching today, just so that we know no scum can have a shot left (or if he can't shoot then we lynch him because he's scum).

vote Dragons

[charter]

Dragons is scummy as hell.

[charter]

Oh wait, after SOG shoots there's gonna be five left, probably lylo.

unvote

[charter]

request prod on dragons, semioldguy

Welcome Fonz.

[charter]

I don't know about no lynch. I'm thinking of these scenarios where we go down to five then get blindsided by a vigging and it messes everything up. So far they all involve SOG being scum with a shot left, which still only would make us lose if there's another scum who has already shot, which I don't think is likely, but I'm going to keep thinking.

Anyhow, while deciding about no lynching, NO ONE should talk about who they want to lynch tomorrow/next day. I think we shouldn't give our opinions on people since that way scum won't know who to kill.

[charter]

Need to go verify SOG's claim, but I'm not really seeing how we could not lynch him today.

[charter]

Buried under snow, post later if we keep power and dig out.

[charter]

Ok, just reread while checking on SOG's claim.

Nacho's post 34, anyone have any comments on this? Whether it makes Anon more or less likely to be scum? I have mine, but want to see what others think.

SOG's first post after the game starts, 93, comes right after yabbaguy (90) talks about a majority member be bulletless, and he doesn't comment on it any way. I think ortolan had a good point with SOG's lack of breadcrumbs.

Also, SOG never said anything when there was the discussion about whether the setup was open or not. Really not seeing how he is a bulletless town and also, his role seems almost entirely worthless.

Page 7, thinking Anon is town.

374, dragons shoots dramonic, probably the worst shooting we've had.

Ok, practically everyone was in an uproar about dragons after he vigged dramonic. He just lurked his way out of it.

I really only see one course of action. I know I wanted to not post opinions so scum would have to guess, but I don't see how we can't lynch SOG. His claim kind of makes sense, and I think that the way he didn't investigate ortolan night one, despite him being his biggest suspect, but then continuing voting him day two is actually a town tell. I just don't think there's enough there to write him off as town, which means he needs to get lynched. Like he said, even if he's town, it's likely not to be game over. The thing is, if he's scum with a shot, he could have just shot someone. I doubt anyone would have complained if he shot dragons. He, of course, could be scum without a shot and just trying to save himself.

After that, I'm not seeing anyone who can overtake dragons in scumminess. Fonz is almost certainly town. Anon doesn't really look that scummy. Ortolan is kind of neutral. That leaves dragons, who has done nothing. Made zero mention of just about everyone. Very poor vig of dramonic.

I still need to make up my mind on SOG and work numbers on the number of scum with shots myself. It's just that I think we have to lynch him, which complicates things.

I think dragons is scum and I don't think anything will change my mind of this.

[charter]

Well, aside from breadcrumbing, you didn't comment one way or the other when people were talking about the setup no longer being open, and the possibility of power roles, or any of that. I would think that if you are a town power role, you'd have at least thrown your two cents in about the game not being open and therefore it was likely to contain power roles. Not doing that weakens you claim a bit.

[charter]

Well, aside from breadcrumbing, you didn't comment one way or the other when people were talking about the setup no longer being open, and the possibility of power roles, or any of that. I would think that if you are a town power role, you'd have at least thrown your two cents in about the game not being open and therefore it was likely to contain power roles. Not doing that weakens you claim a bit.

This post makes little sense to me.

My first post of the game was Post 93 due to being away. This was after the moderator made a post explaining that it was not actually an open setup in post 75. That

should

have been the end of any discussion/speculation on the setup. Continuing the discussion after that is bad.

What good would it do to throw in my two cents after the question had been resolved?

As far as the discussing after that (because people still did), I did comment on it. Post 132 takes the stance that I was against this discussion taking place. Post 192 further explains why I was against such discussion.

What I was trying to say is that you were absent from the setup speculation about it being open/closed and whether or not town could/couldn't shoot, when, if you knew the answers to these questions, you didn't say anything about it. The good it would have done for you to throw your two cents in is that your claim now would be much more believable.

I can understand why you may not of, especially since you would have no way of knowing if you were the only bulletless townie or what, but it still looks pretty suspicious.

I'm leaning towards voting SOG. I actually want to see if we can wait for dragons to not post for a week, then get a modkill on him, since that's the punishment. Won't end the day and takes care of the scummiest person. I want to try and wait that out before proceeding with SOG. Would be best if people don't acknowledge this so as to lessen the chance dragons sees it.

[charter]

Only a little bit left...

[charter]

I'm actually starting to think ortolan is scummier than SOG (though most of why I want to lynch SOG is he can't shoot and so far two scum couldn't shoot). Really just waiting for the dragons situation to hopefully resolve itself first, though.

[charter]

MOD, request modkill on Dragons for not posting in over a week

[charter]

Can we get a vote count too, please?

[charter]

Damnit.

I'm finding myself wanting to lynch Dragons over SOG. There is absolutely no way I can imagine Dragons being town. It's just not possible. A modkill on him would have been ideal since we're at even numbers.

There's things pointing towards SOG being town and things pointing towards him being scum.

Anon, what do you think of lynching dragons over SOG?

[charter]

Dragons has like ten posts all game. Nothing in any of them is indicative of him being town. He shot dramonic as soon as someone mentioned his name. He never explained why. All he's done is lurk and be scummy.

[charter]

Actually, a GAT

would

benefit us here. What we would need to do is GAT the person we're going to lynch, that way we know they aren't scum (or if they are, they die and it won't matter) and let them to GAT the person they think is most town and two others, that way if scum try and kill someone who is thought to be town, there's a chance they instead kill someone everyone is less sure of. Basically we turn the NK from scum controlled to random, which I think is better for the town.

It would be important for the person GATed to not publicly post who they have GATed.

Ugh, this is, once again, making me pause on SOG, since he brought this up at the beginning of the game and it seemed pretty town then.

[charter]

Gat the person you lynch that way you ensure they're acting in the town's best interest. If you Gat someone and then don't immediately kill them, you are left wondering their alignment and whether they are actually helping the town out.

You don't lynch someone you know isn't scum, we're still trying to lynch scum, but we Gat the person before we lynch them, that way, they're either scum and who they Gat won't matter, or they're town, and we know they're trying to help the town.

[charter]

GAT Semioldguy

Sorry, but not seeing any way around this. Just let us know after you've done your GATing.

[charter]

Unless people would rather lynch Dragons/Cry. Regardless of SOG, Dragons is scum.

[charter]

UNGAT SOG

Argh, I can't shake this feeling of a Dragons/Ortolan scumteam.

Just realized Ortolan hasn't posted here in over a week as well, though I'm pretty sure I've seen him posting elsewhere.

[charter]

UNGAT SOG

Argh, I can't shake this feeling of a Dragons/Ortolan scumteam.

Just realized Ortolan hasn't posted here in over a week as well, though I'm pretty sure I've seen him posting elsewhere.

that's because this game is going nowhere. Honestly I don't care I'm sick of being mislynched by bad players for bad players so go ahead and add another time I've been mislynched by clueless players to the tally if you like. Honestly some people find me scummy in 60+% of games, you think they would get the hint that they are terrible at reading me but that odds are I shouldn't be scum more than 25+% of the time anyway so they should start reading me better

/rant

I haven't been keeping up with this game but as I said nothing remotely interesting has happened so I don't care

Maybe you shouldn't lynch yourself as town or make anti town deals and maybe people won't want to lynch you for small things as much. Maybe the people mislynching you aren't the ones who need changing, hmm?

SOG, do you think we should GAT you and let you try and randomize the NK?

[charter]

Alright, whatever.

GAT SOG

Let's just gat him and get it over with.

[charter]

I read your post, but unfortunately for you, you've replaced in to the scummiest person in the game, so I'm not exactly buying it.

[charter]

Crymeariver, as much as I like to be read as town and unless Im missing something I dont remember being attacked by scum early.

Last post from CMAR feel genuine, though, like he is really trying to scumhunt. What does everyone think?

I still think not lynching sog would be a mistake. If there were another claimed power role I would believe it but it simply doesnt make sense in this setup where we also know that at least one scum cant shoot.

Charter or anyone, can you explain me how does picking a new gatekeeper could help? I dont get it.

I agree, he feels genuine, but it won't erase Dragons's scumminess.

I believe picking a new gatekeeper (the person we're about to lynch) helps us out because they can then GAT people and if scum try and kill one of the people they GATed, the kill now becomes random. I think a random NK will be better than a scum controlled one. If SOG is scum, then GATting him isn't going to make any difference, but if he's town, then it can potentially help us out.

[charter]

We're not lynching ortolan, just GAT SOG.

[charter]

Let us know when you've GATed, SOG.

[charter]

vote Semioldguy

[charter]

I'd still lynch Dragons if you can convince two others to vote him as well.

[charter]

Well, I'm not a fan of no lynching in MYLO, but in this situation I'd give it a go, everyone else's thoughts?

[charter]

I think it's safe to say SOG didn't GAT anyone, that would just be idiotic on his part.

Need to reread the game again, but I want to go and look at how SOG started the last day, he must have known he was going to be lynched since he couldn't shoot, so I want to see what changed from day three I think to day four. Another thing to look at is whose kill makes the most sense for scum to make.

[charter]

If we mislynch today and scum make a kill at night, town loses. So we'd be praying scum doesn't kill, which isn't going to happen in this game.

There's really nothing you can do to explain about dragons, I'm going to have to go back and look at ortolan and Anon and see if I find any links from them to the dead scum.

[charter]

I'm trying work on a reread.

[charter]

Actually, I don't see that much benefit in further discussion if we're going to nolynch.

Figured we might as well discuss something till then, and I really don't like the whole Charter page 12 thing...Analysis should come late, just in case I die tonight...if you support No Lynch, why isn't ur vote there...something in particular holding you back

You think I outright killed a scumbuddy and then weakly objected to suspicion on another one IN A GAME WHERE WE DONT EVEN LYNCH?

Lol at "just in case I die tonight".

[charter]

Ok, I still think it's dragons.

No lynch or duke it out?

[charter]

Anon or ort, if you guys are believing this, I will respond to all the points if you want, but from the few I looked at, they're pretty clearly wrong.

Like these.

Actually, a GAT would benefit us here.

Of course it would, electing your scumbuddy for GAT would benefit YOU because he would place you in the safezone

Scum being in the safe zone doesn't do anything at this point. Also crymeariver agreed with Gatting yesterday, but now I'm scum for suggesting it.

I completely agree...wanting a modkill with this many people in the game is SOOOOOO scummy...possibly the reason he NKed Fonz? He didn't want him to bring it up again?

Also, at the end...Charter keeps saying that he wants to lynch SoG, but he keeps saying he finds Ortolan and Dragons scummier...last attempt at protecting his scumbuddy?

Fonz was actually saying I was town there, asking for a modkill

You accuse me of a last attempt at protecting my scumbuddy, but was I voting ortolan and trying to get him lynched? No. Were you voting ortolan instead of SOG? Yes.

Another half of those points are just you calling yourself confirmed town, which isn't true, and then using that "fact" to call me scum for suspecting you.

WAIT, WHAT!???!! 1. How did you know he was a townie at the time since he only had 10 posts at the time 2. You didn't even read what Cobalt said, but just lynched him for no reason!? 3. You agree that you didn't use your dayvig wisely, even though you lynched scum?! Oh I get it, it wasn't wise to dayvig 1 of your 3 scumbuddies...

Parama's alignment was revealed. I saw that Cobalt did a PBPA that included every one of Parama's posts and figured it was typical scum "scumhunting". Few things gave evidence to this. Picked a very easy target. Cited every post.

vote Crymeariver

[charter]

Oh, also like a page ago Cry cited about half those reasons for why I'm town, now he's flipped them around to say I'm scum.

He tried to "scumhunt" by clearing me and Anon and use that to vote ortolan, but when ortolan says as much, he just drops it and goes after me.

[charter]

unvote, vote No lynch

Alright

[charter]

vote Crymeariver

[charter]

I've actually been giving a great deal of thought about Ort's alignment. A lot of it is a giant pile of WIFOM that largely applies to you as well. I've been saying pretty nonstop that I think Dragons was scum and that that's not going to change. I was actually thinking that if Anon got killed this past night, I'd just vote ortolan because I couldn't imagine Crymeariver would keep me alive over Anon when I'm saying nothing but "lynch cry" and I was just being kept alive to do that and was wrong about dragons.

I've essentially ruled Anon out as scum, since it seems like it would have made about a million times more sense for him to kill ortolan last night, then wait for me and Cry to vote each other and take his pick.

Along the same lines, if Ort was scum, killing Anon last night would have been good, but I can see potential reasons why he didn't. He might have been worried it would bring more scrutiny to him, since Anon keeps saying he thinks Ortolan is scum.

I think if Crymeariver is scum then no killing last night makes by far the most sense. Killing Anon wouldn't have been very good, since both me and ort have it out for him. Killing Ort would take away Anon's doubt that ort is scum and leave him voting crymeariver. Killing me would have eliminated a vote on him, which would help him, but at the same time would incriminate him. No killing makes the most sense for Crymeariver.

Another thing I've been thinking about is what the scum who could shoot's strategy was going to be in the game. Thinking about it now, it seems like it would be good for them to be constantly expressing suspicion of their buddies. However, at the beginning of the game, we didn't know a scum could shoot, so I haven't really thought about it that much up until now. The reverse of this fits nicely in to my Dragons as scum theory. SOG seemed to start bussing Dragons at some point in time, but it wasn't very strong, and then is later dropped once it's known he can't shoot. He pretty much gave up at that point.

Yet another thing I have been thinking about is all my comments yesterday about lynching crymeariver over SOG. SOG never really seemed to buy in to this, despite his previous earlier suspicions of dragons. He seems to think his best scum play is to just give up from the start of the day, though we were pressuring him to shoot, so if he tried to claim later that he couldn't shoot, that would have been a dead giveaway. The shift from voting dragons to just resigning, from what I see, only benefits him if Dragons is scum.

Plus, dragons' reaction to SOG's claim. It seems really planned out. Something I would bet, is that whoever SOG's buddy is, they planned to just bus him once he made his claim. Dragons does that but then immediately gets replaced. Cry kind of does it half way. He proposes two options, one is SOG and the other is not SOG, and then goes with the other. Kind of conflicting there, since if he read their QT, he would know what the plan was, but maybe he decided to try and just win that day? I dunno.

WIFOM aside, Dragons was just ridiculously scummy, and Crymeariver doesn't seem much better. Ortolan has been kind of neutral. It's not that I'm very sure that Ortolan is town, it's that I'm very sure that Cry is scum.

Anon, where does your thinking Ortolan is scum come from?

[charter]

If I was scum I would have killed ort, probably would have won by now as well. I would have killed him for the opposite reason you didn't kill him. You need another plausible target for people to vote other than yourself, and if I was scum, I would just remove any other vote targets except you.

[charter]

Why are you paranoid that I'm scum?

[charter]

Prods please

[charter]

Why are you paranoid that I'm scum, ortolan?

[charter]

Well you guys need to do something, either vote or post or something.

[charter]

Anon, at the start of the game what strategy did you think scum would use for the game? Did you think there might be scum with special powers?

Same questions but now. What strategy do you think they used? What about the scum that could shoot?

Ort, same questions.

[charter]

unvote

[charter]

Charter, why the unvote?

All of ortolan's pussyfooting around today has me wondering. I get the feeling he's trying to figure out where people stand so he can make just one power move to win. I need to reread all of today to see if I'm just imagining that or what, but it's something I do as scum which I didn't even realize for the longest time.

CMAR, you need to put some more effort in here or my vote is just going to default back on to you.

[charter]

Ortolan, why haven't you voted yet? What are you waiting for?

[charter]

Vote CMAR

[charter]

Let's finish this game up.

[charter]

Damn, good job Anon.

[charter]

Also, that bullet I got on day 2 was planned or desperate maneuver to make the game at least winnable for scum?

It was planned. If someone directly asked a mafia to shoot someone to prove they were town, they were given a daykill.

that's kind of ridiculous

Utterly ridiculous.

[charter]

Yeah, that's completely stupid.