Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[mykonian]

ok. That was not quite as expected,

but there is nothing that doesn't say it wasn't an accident

, so on this moment haylen is lucky.

I would expect scum to be on the Hoopla wagon, and for later: I suspect Elli more then Haylen.

Further, the wagon formed quickly in the start,

so one cannot say a lot about the order there.

Two very weakening statements

, accompaniing the suspicion that

U2

scum had to do with it. I know what I said, Ojanen.

lol, spyrex.

[mykonian]

ok. That was not quite as expected,

but there is nothing that doesn't say it wasn't an accident

, so on this moment haylen is lucky.

I would expect scum to be on the Hoopla wagon, and for later: I suspect Elli more then Haylen.

Further, the wagon formed quickly in the start,

so one cannot say a lot about the order there.

Two very weakening statements

, accompaniing the suspicion that

U2

scum had to do with it. I know what I said, Ojanen.

lol, spyrex.

[mykonian]

I think I misunderstood you earlier, because I certainly don't understand you now.

What are you trying to say?

[mykonian]

not trying to speedlynch to gain an advantage against the other universe is perfectly reasonable, but lurking hurts us more then in a normal game, people! We lose against scum, and we lose against the other universe.

Now

mod, could you prod people?

A point in favor of Spyrex's "proposal" (yes, this is making it stronger then you put it, but I don't know what other word to use), to send U2 people back is that they never got into the game. Starbuck and Haylen won't play here.

Elli for that reason shouldn't be send back, he is doing well.


Now, for the actual scumhunting part of this post: we agree on most of the town reads, in this town. Assuming those are right, only Evilsnail, Spyrex and Me are most likely scum (yes, I don't count Fishy, whoever wants to add him, do that). with these, and adding Plum and Rhinox, I think one could find with interactions who the scum are.

One problem is that I'm in that group, so I'm biased. I am going to look at this too, but please, someone else, check the interactions between this players. This way we could find the last scumpair.

[mykonian]

Ojanen, would you mind if I did that tomorrow? I woke up 17 hours earlier, and I don't think I can have a decent quality of post now. I have made one, or a series of posts that were about the interactions of players with Pops. Evil didn't really argue with those points, added with the points that he wasn't really active. I don't know if scum-evil would do that.

Normal scum argues long about the points against him, admitting is usually done by town.

[mykonian]

moving back = moving where you know the game, and the thread is shorter.

but whatever you want

[mykonian]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 1 ) Ellibereth
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 0 )
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 2 ) spyrex CSL
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 1 ) mykonian
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 6 ) gayle ojanen starbuck evilsnail Haylen fishythefish
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

Again, you've been far more concrete and specific about finding scum from U2 versus here. You had no problem calling Jack out and no problems again saying it was Elli and Haylen on the wagon.

Please read that post again. We have a miscommunication here, I think.

Haylen is a pure neutral read. I see that lynch as a mistake. Elli has been more helpful, but the L-1 spot in such a situation (where U2 has to pull), is more scummy then others. You seem to imply I am quite sure about Elli being scum. My vote would be there, then.

[mykonian]

Ojanen, the start of the day after Pops got lynched I have made that post.

Further, those groups were made on what the total group agrees on, meaning that fishy (evil's suspect, but towny according to the rest; ojanen, neutral for myko, town for the rest; CSL, mostly considered town, but with doubts about heavy bussing) are left out because the big majority agrees on them being likely town. The more people agree on it, the more likely it is right (there is a big amount of townies that agrees on it).

[mykonian]

@Ojanen. Evil was one of my original townreads, he had a good start of the game. I lost sight of him later (probably because his activity dropped), and that post was the turning point, I think. Probably didn't help that others talked negatively about him before I made that post, you tend to notice more things then.

Wait, first thing I didn't like was how he used Fishy as a resting spot for his vote before the Pops lynch. But that didn't make him scum in my eyes, though I have expressed I didn't like it.

[mykonian]

spyrex, two things:

the setup is open. There is only 1 teleporter.

it is suboptimal to counterclaim. It is better to "vig" the person who fakeclaims, sending him as confirmed scum to the other universe. (teleporters can't send themselves)

A CSL lynch is horrible. It assumes the counterwagon for pops was on scum too, while pops was mainly fueling it. He was doing this for a long time, with little argumentation (it was policy after all), and I think pops was using this as a way to stay out of the rest of the game (something we could see). CSL is very likely town.

[mykonian]

LOL. This is too hard. I'm starting to wonder if my English is rusty.
DEAR MYKONIAN.
My question is

NOT

when and why you started to think evil is scum.
My question is: Please quote the snippets and triggers that CHANGED YOUR MIND about evilsnail after you wanting to lynch him yesterday.
LOVE, OJ

nah, it is my english. Sorry.

The change is that it is absoluty impossible to lynch someone who "is going to be replaced". As you can see here. On the moment the replacement is found, the case is taken serious again.

[mykonian]

this time it is you not understanding me (yes, that is me being unclear)

The raskol case was dead the whole day as he was going to be replaced. Lurking before made that people weren't really interested. The fact that there came a replacement makes it kosjer again to go for that lynch (that person can react, is the reasoning, though this is not really true, as it is about Raskol, in stead of spyrex)

[mykonian]

mod, can we have some prods?

[mykonian]

gayle ojanen starbuck

evilsnail

Haylen CSL

if you had to vote now, who would you vote and why?

[mykonian]

haha.

mine is better though, because it only asks to all the people not voting (except Snail)

[mykonian]

STOP IGNORING ME!

Vote Haylen

...

Haylen, they are answering you...

[mykonian]

CSL, it is midnight for haylen on this moment. It is quite normal to make logical errors/misreads/etc then, and her being ashamed for that is not out of the ordinary.

Don't get me wrong, I like your attempt at scumhunting, but you are pointing out mistakes rather then scummy plays.

[mykonian]

8 Full days.

Is anything going to happen in those days? no idea, but this way clearly not.

Now, if some people please would place there votes, reason why, etc for the people who haven't done this. If starbuck and haylen would finish their reads and post their results, and if the

mod would be so kind to prod the rest of the players

something might actually happen.

[mykonian]

I had to look it up too:

POE Power-Over-Ethernet
POE Point of Entry
POE Peace On Earth
POE Point of Existence (game)
POE Ports of Entry
POE Parallel Operating Environment (IBM)
POE Portal of Evil (website)
POE Panel of Experts
POE Post Occupancy Evaluation (now Facility Performance Evaluation)
POE Perl Object Environment
POE

Process of Elimination

POE Physician Order Entry
POE Port Of Embarkation
POE Place of Employment
POE Provider Outreach and Education Advisory Group (US Medicare)
POE Point of Embarkation
POE Principles of Engineering
POE Proofs of Entitlement (IBM)
POE Probability of Exceedence
POE Polyolester (type of oil for A/C)
POE Purity of Essence (Dr. Strangelove)
POE Pipe Organ Encounter
POE Point of Exposure
POE Program Office Estimate
POE Piece of Eight (old English currency)
POE Polyolefin Elastomer (polymer)
POE Projected Operational Environment
POE Plan of Exploration
POE Privately Owned Enterprise
POE Priority of Effort
POE Post Office Express
POE

point of ending

POE Predict, Observe and Explain (science education)
POE Proof of Export
POE Point of Essence
POE Precise Orbit Ephemerides
POE Posture of Engagement
POE

Program of Execution

POE protubérance occipitale externe
POE Pay Option Election
POE Projected Operating Employment (Navy Association with ROC)
POE Process Overall Efficiency (engineering)
POE Professional Office Enterprises
PoE Proof of Enabler
POE Proposed/Projected Operational Environment
POE Proactive Office Encounter

[mykonian]

This is ridiculous.

Lets MOVE. Apathy is going to kill any chance we've got.

The last sentence just feels wrong. We're not doing that badly, and this appeal to fear isn't justified.

I think Spyrex is a better lynch than snail:

- Read snail.

I think he's very good at admitting he's wrong

, and does so in a townie way, with no attempt to backtrack on previous stances. I think snail's admitting his mistakes - and reactions to bw's on him (see the bw early on d2) - are the main source of my town gut feelings about snail.
- Snail's recent comment that he finds everyone in the game town is completely credible (how many people can say they have a strong scumread?), and not very scummish.
- I agree that snail gives very mixed signals. I think that the town ones are stronger than the scum ones.
- There are some reasons to think Raskol was scum (see my last post on the matter). I don't think Spy's play has been terribly impressive - I very much disagree with him over myko - but I haven't really seen enough to read him for his own play yet.

@mod:

I'm V/LA this weekend, Friday morning - Monday evening

Fishy, the bolded strikes me as weird. You think he is good at this, conciously? Because "being good at telling the truth" is not really special.

[mykonian]

I think that scum tend to worry more about them and their arguments looking good, and so are more prone to trying to prove themselves right to justify previous arguments. I think that being able to admit your arguments were wrong is something townies are better at - particularly when your arguments were not obviously wrong.

yeah, you know this is WIFOM. So a scum who is "very good at admitting he is wrong, and doing so in a towny way" gets away with things that were scummy from the start? Without real defense?

[mykonian]

Of course that is WIFOM. Everything that makes anyone think anyone else more likely town is WIFOM - doesn't make it wrong or useless. I think snail is displaying a trait townies display more than scum - and that makes him more likely town. The things he did that were scummy still make him scummy.

you are slightly missing the point (knowing that I am seriously against using WIFOM as the only reason against an argument). WIFOM is a game of possibilities.

You say Evil is good at it. Doesn't that make it more likely he is scum playing it? As in, the odds are drawn more closely to 50/50

And, knowing that, should this be an argument that "defends" his scumpoints a bit?

[mykonian]

uhm, no. I never get myself lynched as town. That scum will attack me is great. Let them. We all know what that mistake means, and people react to it. People will react to it day 2, day 3. etc.

Contrary to the amount of posting and scumhunting I try to do in those games, I am often the first or second lynch.
Now, this is such a sad story, but that part is my problem, and I'm working on that. But if your problem with me is essentially that your gut says I'm manipulating, then I'm afraid you have found my normal playstyle

I don't see the scum motivation for this complete contrast but weird stuff on self statements whether he gets lynched.

it's quite simple, actually. Someone from the other universe said I had to get myself lynched because I looked bad, and that is something I never do. I don't selfvote, or give up. This has given at least 2 games (where it was very clear) where I was lynched day 1, but scum was lynched day 2 because of it. However, I would rather have that I would catch scum before I get lynched, then making them obvious in twilight, or letting people analyze my wagon for the scummos later.[/quote]

[mykonian]

and the point where Elvis accuses me of voteparking: I didn't want a CSL lynch, which was on that moment barely a counterwagon (only 2 votes, I thought), while the Pops lynch was wrong in my eyes too. So I stayed with my biggest suspect and asked Elvis how she could make that as scummy (which she did - "voteparking" isn't town.)

[mykonian]

Popsscum wouldn't have looked townier when CSL flipped scum, policy lynches don't look that great, so there seems to be little advantage. If the policylynch of CSL would have succeeded, scum wouldn't benefit that much.

It is surprising how you both (spyrex-evilsnail) seem to poke if there is any interest for a CSL lynch.

[mykonian]

Holy hell I forgot all about that tidbit. Good catch Oj.

And hell yea I'm "poking"

all over

CSL right

now

still too? Not like that wasn't discussed and dealt with earlier, right?

Good gravy

I think I didn't say the bolded. Because it is quite obvious you did. However, as Ojanen points out it is quite unlikely that you both are scum, I believe one of you was doing that to create distrust/seek another mislynch-target. Because CSL's play is horrible, but I don't think scum would ever try to policy lynch someone, because if it works, they don't benefit that much.

[mykonian]

Day 4 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 3 ) Ellibereth CSL ojanen
starbuck ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 1 ) spyrex
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
spyrex ( 2 ) mykonian fishythefish
Haylen ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) gayle starbuck evilsnail Haylen
Total Votes ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 17th 12:00 EST

AND AND AND considering that was in response to snails POST ABOVE YOURS trying to push a CSL lynch (which is bad) yea one would make the assumption that you were saying I was doing this NOW.

YOU MAKE THAT WRONG ASSUMPTION.

And that makes it suddenly very easy to defend.

Why are you strawmanning me Spyrex?

[mykonian]

It is completely insane that you actually try to blame me when you are the one misreading my statement. And then you say "that is untrue! Everybody can see that, right?"

If I wasn't voting you, I would vote you now.

[mykonian]

what is common, is that both of you have made a post where you state you wouldn't mind a CSL lynch. While CSL is very likely town.

[mykonian]

it was a doublepost, spyrex...

[mykonian]

crosspost. that was my bad english.

And I honestly haven't read Ojanens argument that well, because

I don't think it makes any sense to have a policy lynch you a scumbuddy if this has chance of succeeding

. So while Ojanen played the good role protecting CSL with evidence, you trying to get his lynch going makes no sense to me at all. Even without that post. And knowing that CSL always plays bad. Which is the core of any argument against him which I have seen.

[mykonian]

Spyrex, why did you assume that I would make an incorrect statement?

[mykonian]

Which statement are you talking about?

"If its the snail and SpyreX are pushing for a CSL lynch"

That is an incorrect statement.

If it was supposed to be:

"Snail and SpyreX have pushed for a CSL lynch today"

It is a correct statement on surface but means absolutely nothing when viewed contextually.... so it is also incorrect.

come on, you aren't going to hide behind the fact that I'm not english.

Further, I was very obvious that you no longer wanted a CSL lynch.

It makes absolutely no sense for me to say that, but still it is the first thing that you claim to think when reading that.

Now, and that last quoted sentence is true, but again you assume this makes that you are buddies, etc, while two people doing the same are more often not buddies then they are. AGAIN YOU ARE ASSUMING SOMETHING WHICH IS MOST LIKELY UNTRUE.

So you are very very good at reading things which I haven't said. Stop doing that. It was a plain and simple observation.

[mykonian]

Actually I forgot until you mentioned it earlier this page that you weren't.

I'm asking, again, for the ultimate reason for that post. If it means Snail and SpyreX probably aren't scum together - say so. If it means we are - say so.

Just tell me WHY you felt the need to throw that in there and we can move on with lynching each other like civilized folk.

I find it scummy, from both? And I put that in one sentence? Seriously, what are you trying to say here?

why were you assuming I was saying something clearly incorrect?

[mykonian]

I'm getting confused here. Who are we lynching today?

I must say, you surprise me. When I saw your name as last post, I thought: "there we have another of those votes with little value". Can you understand my joy when I saw this post?

Me neither. You could try to scumhunt.

[mykonian]

why is saying that I find it highly unlikely that CSL is scum not an answer?

If you have a scummo lynched, with the current meta, you are going to look at players that scummo had barely interactions with, not the ones he was very obvious about: he wanted you to see those.

Saying: "but pops might have been very clever" which already expresses that it is unlikely, only to make a case on a person that is scummy every time he play's, doesn't feel like you are going for the person you have the biggest chance on catching scum, but you are going for the player with the playstyle you dislike/player that could be mislynched.

tl;dr to assume an unlikely situation to lynch CSL for a null-tell is no scumhunting.

[mykonian]

spyrex, why am I only answering your questions?

why were you assuming I was saying something that was clearly wrong?

[mykonian]

Hi, guys. I won't be reading or even skimming the 70-page thread, but I will read each of the living players in iso.

CSL, mykonian, ojanen, and SpryeX: would each of you give me your summary of the game, both as it pertains to mechanics and major events?

first, theory talk. Not really important now anymore, for things other then scumhunting.

after that, question time, a lot of failing scumhunting and DGB-ABR drama ending the day, making us lose our Mason that night.

D2. More effective day, informationwise. Pops was found out after a counterclaim from elvis, and we lynched him. I think here is good stuff to reread.

D3 was a quick day, where we thought a scumslip was found. Much worse then day 2, as most people didn't scumhunt with this information from the end of day 2.

and now we are here.

If you want to know more, please ask. Lets see if we can get you into this game.

[mykonian]

I understand that time makes them different. I don't know how the scumminess (?) is different.

Why did you assume I was saying something clearly untrue? (how often do I have to ask this before you give an answer?)

[mykonian]

(from the assumption that after pops lynch it was quite likely that CSL was town.

[mykonian]

I'm pretty sure I've made clear that I don't think my interpretation of what you were saying was "cleary untrue"

Timing is everything. Its the crux of this whole discussion. It, in fact, DOES make the actions different and thus the attributed scum should be different.

These are not the same and lumping them as such is bad mojo.

the first thing: you assumed I was saying you were still trying to get CSL lynched, which was clearly untrue. (I would never say that, so why did you assume I would?)

So, this whole discussion boils down to you saying that CSL only became cleared after Ojanen's post?

[mykonian]

Which raises, again, if I'm NOT trying to currently get CSL lynched and that post was in reply to Snail TRYING to get CSL lynched - why were they tied together?

----

If one wants to REALLY oversimplify whats going on - yes. That statement is tying previous actions with a result (SpyreX) to current actions with a different result (Snail) and then saying they are the same thing.

Its disingenuous.

I have no idea what that means, but it probably is bad. I'm seeing both as scummy.

Now, why am I answering the same questions over and over again. You aren't that stupid.

and why aren't you answering my questions. Even after I explained over and over again you keep reading more in a simple statement of what I think! No way you are town. You found a statement, saw its potential for misreading, and now you keep milling about it. Esspecially as everybody can see that you are using the same circle of questions again and again,

while not explaining why you KEEP assuming there is more behind that statement then there is.

[mykonian]

Mostly, I agreed with a lot of what myko was saying Day 1.

This increases my confidence in Evil-town. I had the same with him.

[mykonian]

the faster we go spyrex, the more half of this game will get behind (phate, starbuck, haylen, fishy?)

And why do you assume I talk the same to people regardless of who they are, where they are, what kind of time they have for me, etc?

In this thread, you read my posts. The longer the message, the more information you get and the more complete that information is. I like playing like that, but to avoid real problems with readability, longer posts often have a conclusion, I work with colours for parts of the post that are not necesary to be read, etc.

the other thread has no real interest in this thread, and is most likely going to skim. The shorter the message, the bigger the chance those players will actually read it.

[mykonian]

And strike that prob. Their town teleporter is not gonna teleport. Unless I'm totally missing something, we have a really nice situation in this universe and a lost cause in the other.

I agree. The DRK-FFFF mafia could really not afford such a revealing move if they weren't really confident.

SL is in my eyes confirmed town. As I can see it, scum hammered at L-1 because of this. (one vote less was needed.)

[mykonian]

we were wrong, I think, Ojanen...

[mykonian]

yeah, I can't think of anything, unless I assume them to be (I don't want to say stupid but can't find another word):

They could have waited for a moment where the number of players in their universe was even, and waited for L-1 to use their teleportation to get someone not on the wagon out to force the lynch through. However, this would make them totally ignorant how obvious this makes them. DRK and FFFF are as I read that, quite obviously the ones who did this.

SL

, first question before you try to read through this whole thread: was starbuck percieved as scummy in your universe?

[mykonian]

Pretty sure I know why Starbuck hammered. Starbuck is U2-scum who was hoping to be teleported back.

This does sound a little odd. I don't think scum would think that way. However, it is perfectly possible Starbuck didn't care that much anymore (his team would win anyway?)

While starbuck is pretty interesting, DRK is even more interesting. Lets make a deal, DRK: you claim scum, we won't lynch you.

[mykonian]

what logic?

Seriously, I can't believe this is happening. There is no logic that shows I'm scum. 73 pages, and there hasn't been one decent case on me. Just look at it. The last case, that was disproven by Ojanen, was that my posts for the other universe were more direct then my general post here.

And now you are going to try to lynch me because, well, "it can't be one of the others, right?" Brilliant tactic for finding scum, not one to lynch people for.

If you have a direction where you are looking for, you can then more easily find why that person is scum: why don't I see that? You even say you think I'm really scumhunting. Of course I am! Now why are you voting me?

[mykonian]

No haylen, at the start of the night, if the teleporter died, a new one is chosen from the townies.

[mykonian]

I don't know... but I don't think so, as the mafia teleporter is one shot. Dying mafia would get too many shots that way.

mod, am I right?

[mykonian]

guys, I practically can't defend against what is said. Fishy says: "the rest is town, evil thinks like me, myko is the only one left". CSL has some idea I must be scum because I led the spyrex/raskol wagon. Haylen votes me for being nice (?), and is gone.

Now, Fishy's makes sense, but there is one problem: I'm not scum. The worst thing you can do now is automatically lynch and hope you'll get there, because that will lose us the game.

I'm not too sure about evil-scum either. He is one of the few making sense the last 2 day's. So I have a question for you

who would you lynch after you have confirmed I really was town after all

. Because spyrex was right: town is going to lose this game if they stay this lazy.

[mykonian]

I have three in my previous post. Thank you!

Further, this is the wrong way around.
Thirdly, you didn't read my post, or you completely missed the point, because

You are still in autolynchmode.

Oh, and apart from being nice, and actually trying to scumhunt (yeah, I strawman you, fishy ), there is no case on me now. Snails cases would go back a day, or two.

[mykonian]

you haven't heard snail yet...

At least try to be consistent with what you are saying.

[mykonian]

I claimed I had two. And that I disagreed with them, and didn't find them very confincing, or effective. And check me, if I lied. That is your job.

[mykonian]

@myko: I think you scum through PoE. Sure, I could go through your posts, and most likely I could put up a case against you from them. But the points in it would be minor, and it wouldn't convince anyone of anything. It would be totally pointless, and pretty much a lie.

That's why I ask it from you. I have yet to see a decent case on me. And a lot of people have tried.

That should tell you something

. My playstyle might trigger people's scumdar: but it is that, playstyle, not being scum. Which results in a storm of cases, all different and all making very little sense.

[mykonian]

tomorrow I should have time to look over the evidence again.

[mykonian]

my excuses for my recent inactivity. Now things are happening again I think it should be easier to motivate me for this game.

So, by my count we have 2 of each scum, 3 of each town. So we should just lynch the mostly likely scum. That is, DRK. I really don't see FFFF using the teleport like that if there was only him in U2 - the scum teleport is something to save for really near endgame.

vote: DRK

His defence really doesn't make any sense. sl's head was blatantly not "on the chopping block" when that teleport was made.

Re: U1. I think we're looking at a snail/myko team. CSL looks really town from pops's play. Gayle looks really town from Gayle's play.

I am not going to have time to read U2 any time soon. If U2 players would like to analyse it, that would be lovely - otherwise I'll scumhunt based on your activities over here.

I fully agree with this.

I now see that the mason has claimed. With an obvious lynch in DRK, this was too soon.

unvote vote DRK

btw. With 10 man, and 4 scum, we need to lynch scum every day, take out a scumteam asap, or hope for a crosskill:

6-2-2 day
6-2-1
4-2-1 day
4-2
3-2=lylo

[mykonian]

Fishy, when the town teleporter dies, another one replaces them.

8. Once one universe has been won, that game is frozen and the other universe may neither pull from nor teleport to that universe. The teleporter becomes a vanilla townie.

Evil snail, how can it be me and DRK? we both came from the other universe, where one of the scum was lynched. It's impossible to make a scumteam out of that.

1.
2.
3.

that seems pretty possible. Just try it with your fingers.

You are playing this, right?

[mykonian]

Haylen is town. Scum can count to three, when they have the prop of their scumteam to help them. I don't think they fake things like that much, either.

I know. That was why I asked the last: haylen is not completely stupid. And as town, forgetting what the setup is (esspecially when you do know how teleporters are chosen again) is quite stupid.

This makes that her post has two mistakes, where the second is a curious one: I think she is playing this.

[mykonian]

DRK and Myself both came from Universe two, right?

1,2

According to the OP one of the universe 2 scum was lynched

3

, the other was obv teleported here because town won

lynch

. This suggests that both of U2 scum cant be here, only one can which is why it is not plausable to believe both me and DRK can be a scumteam.

which leaves one. You?

[mykonian]

spring was send, while off the leading mislynch wagon, by scum.

Would they have split up, while they didn't know they were winning. This makes me doubt SL is scum, in any scenario. Scum wins in case they win one universe, a voluntary splitup is tactically a bad plan because of that.

It seems you are missing elli and starbuck.

[mykonian]

sorry csl, Starbuck is of course out.

and the above confirms Haylen as scum for me. It is a classic, "weird feelings" about a claim.

It is quite simple, as long as there is no counterclaim, Starbuck is the mason. So haylen had absolutely no reason to say that.

Now I go to bed, because I start to post horribly.

[mykonian]

Awesome.

That gives us three confirmed townies.

But no scumhunting. Only commenting how great it is (and how towny he is)

I say newby-scumtell:

vote Evilsnail

. Thank you for the kill.

[mykonian]

Lol, Evil.

No, but I find it very telling you don't bother to defend. The majority of the case against you is this post:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#2132663

about your interactions with pops.

and this reaction: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 39#2135839

I think you got too easily away from the pressure with admitting your scumtells.

[mykonian]

But you didn't cite any of that in your post, so it felt like you were just voting on the basis of that.

Hey, and that is my problem? That you forget what happened early this game?

It shows that you are scum. You are the one voting here on no basis, other then that you don't like the vote on you now. I would very much like to see a case on me, that you don't have! Just see below.

And what the hell,

Vote: mykonian

, because it's pretty obvious at this point that you're scum. Your vote on me today is terrible. You have been very inconsistent about the case on me, while never committing yourself to a real town read (like fishy or ojanen). If you at least pretended your vote today was mostly PoE, I would maybe buy it, but it's pretty clear now that I'm just an easy lynch target. We should have lynched you instead of SpyreX. I should have followed through with my gut read then.

Hehe. You were the one attacking Fishy, I have even questioned you about it, because Fishy was one of my first town reads, and I have been very clear about that. Ojanen came later, I admit that. But we can hardly call the above a serious attempt to lynch me.

CSL, I would very much like an explanation You can't hide forever.

[mykonian]

@Phate
I find the reverse true. I skimmed over the votes

and we have scum on the pops wagon.

A last minute bussing and counter bussing is expected. I don't have time to do it right now but we should totally do a VC analysis to net the last scumz.

@Myko
I found something very scummy in this post

If you look at it and read a page before: (some context Gayle made his case against pops and started to heavily attack. Pop's wagon is starting to get steam)

a. There is a really, really weakly laid defence of Pops using "meta". You claim to have no meta evidence to make a direct call on pops, yet at the same time use a playstyle argument (wait a minute: did you seriously just create meta for pops) during this wagon?) What bugs me is that:

if Myko doesn't have meta evidence against/for pops, shouldn't Myko then be basing his read on pops based on what is said in thread, rather then be worried about pops' meta. The were tonnes of scummy posts made by pops during the exchange between this post and the one after:

ie Pops admitted that he's refusing to scum hunt because he's flip flopping over the big wagons. hmmmmmmmm... if you reread..

This is so easy. Now pops flipped scum, I was wrong.

My impression of pops was someone who was there for the fun of the game. I disagree with your use of "meta" as if it wasn't a definition that is central to the game. I can't say a sensible thing about someone being scum if I don't have the motives of that player when playing.

b. Myko also called Farside scummy for "not scum hunting effectively because her cases were rehash" Farside questioned this directly after.

I was right. Sadly that didn't mean that farside was scum.

c. OH HAI: Hypocrite ALERT!
Look look look this post in junction with my point a. What's that phrase again: the pot calling the kettle black?

I think I miss your point: my problem with farside was that the took points of others and posted them (without even mentioning that player: as if it were her own idea's => scum trying to look like scumhunting).

I won't be reacting to your answer soon, so take your time formulating a response. I should be doing more for this game, but that the moment I should be doing so much.

[mykonian]

and DTM, it wouldn't make sense for CSL to switch between a buddy and a towny: I think we can partly rule out a Evil-CSL team that way.

[mykonian]

Good point. CSL was heavely attacked by pops for policy reasons (would be a good way for scum to make a case, I think)

Gayle was one of the people who got Pops lynched (leading the wagon, in stead of following)

Which would mean that Evil and I are scum: but I'm not scum.

[mykonian]

Actually I just misread something in the second point. :S

However I don't like how you used a "meta argument" on someone who you don't "have meta on". It's interesting, and very, very, very suspicious because you were able to comment on a player's mindset when you never had experience with that player. You literally in that defence:

jumped over Pop's posts and went to his playstyle.

I read how he posted. And yes, that is my way of scumhunting: I try to find out what people thought when they were posting.

Meta is what way of playing someone has.

First you name it "meta", and then you go on to say Meta is only from previous games.

Call it playstyle then, and the argument becomes quite different.

[mykonian]

How can you judge his style when you have no experience of his playstyle?

I saw it here.

I saw his play as illogical, for both town and scum: town didn't benefit because quite a few posts were not trying to find scum. Scum didn't benefit because those posts would give quite a lot attention.

And his sig, which (I thought) showed that Pops didn't really care about winning.

[mykonian]

How can you judge his style when you have no experience of his playstyle?

Ok, I answered this: now the other way around. Quite a few players here never played with me: you need to make assumptions how I would play as town and as scum to catch me.

You can try to do this by taking a general approach: using general scumtells. Or you can try to do this for only specific cases. For example, CSL, you won't catch with general scumtells: they simply don't apply to him because he isn't an average player.

You basically blame me for taking the second way.

[mykonian]

huh?

anyway, pops made quite a few non-game related posts, like this one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#2109519 (scanned his iso, I wasn't looking for a particular post, but this seemed to fit)

I'm going to do the same. I need a reread (and I already need that for a week :/)

[mykonian]

But you didn't cite any of that in your post, so it felt like you were just voting on the basis of that.

Hey, and that is my problem? That you forget what happened early this game?

I didn't forget it. You didn't mention it and you weren't pushing for my lynch at the end of yesterday, so it looked like you were just voting on the basis of that post. And that's strange. Anyway, your read on me Day 5 seemed to be leaning town. You said so a couple of times towards the end of the day. How come the case against me is convincing today when it apparently wasn't yesterday?

Because yesterday we had the other town winning, and DRK being obvious, and I began to doubt my case on you. The day before that, Spyrex was the person I thought more suspicious.

and no, I'm not going to quote the posts where I accused you everytime the day starts again.

It is quite insane to assume I didn't take into account the rest of the thread. And it is a horrible reason to vote me

It shows that you are scum. You are the one voting here on no basis, other then that you don't like the vote on you now. I would very much like to see a case on me, that you don't have! Just see below.

A case can easily be made on you. Your interaction with pops wasn't good. But largely this is gut and PoE. Though your inconsistency on me

is

scummy.

Good, make that case. I'm inconstistent on you: which probably means I haven't been voting you all the time, and in parts of the game (first day, halfway the last day), I was doubting my cases on you, and saw townpoints. But seriously, how are you going to twist this into a way where that is scummy?

And yes, I was wrong about Pops. that's a point against me, I guess.

[mykonian]

I'll promis you something tomorrow, because if I don't do it then, you wouldn't get anything from me for a week.

mod, I won't have any internet access during easter (from thursday evening till tuesday)

[mykonian]

CSL: interaction with other players.

Wow, I'm not done with the 12th page yet, and I go to this page, and see that. That's one of the biggest slips I have seen in my life!

Vote: mykonian

@ mykonian: quoting would've done MORE harm.

unvote

The vote has served it's purpose.

CSL was doing rereading, then saw something Plum found (but questioned, and she didn't vote me for that), and he voted, without giving more information.

Could be distancing, could be grasping an opportunity (I'm trying to stay neutral ) But I believe CSL's distancing would have been more gradual, in stead of an vote/unvote structure that was going to make him scummy anyway.

A snail or a fish lynch is good enough. I can't count how many scummy things there are in there.

Vote: evilsnail

PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE SCUM:

evilsnail - Scummy posts
Fishy - See above
Raskol - Not here.
Albert B. Rampage - Not scumhunting enough
elvis_knits - Meta

PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE TOWN:

DGB - Excellent scumhunting
pops - 'Nuff said
Ojanen (Leading Neutral) - Lack of scumslips/tells
(I really can't find anything else)

His placing of pops, and of Evilsnail makes me doubt evilsnail is his buddy.

L-2...

Vote: pops

I agree to my teleporting. I really don't care.

(I thought it should be here, although it technically isn't between the players still in the game)

Vote: mykonian

evilsnail is a null-read. mykonian won't be.

Actually, I don't know about myko anymore. I get the feeling SpyreX is trying to bus someone.

unvote

Elli is U2 town. I read U2, and my scumdar didn't tick. All he's done is scumhunt.

His posts won't tick here either, I predict.

Second time he does this. vote/unvote

SpyreX, because he saw myko as scum, and I fail to see why.

SpyreX, why did you think myko was scum?

?

Come to think of it, why the HELL is evilsnail still alive?

Vote: Evilsnail

I will be happy with a lynch of you three (myko, SpyreX, evil)

If myko or SpyreX flip town, the other one is scum. If evil is town, both must be scum. Vice versa applies.

Don't ask why, it's just a gut read.

SpyreX flipped town. Myko is scum according to logic.

Vote: myko

unvote

This requires something.

Myko, evilsnail:

post the cases everyone has on you. It'll make things easier.

This will tell me who to vote...

...

Vote: Snail

FoS: myko

3rd time. :/

Vote: mykonian

GUT read. Don't ask.

Also, L-2 warning.

Phate, let's just kill myk. This game is won. Only need, what, two more votes?

This is the 3rd time he names Gayle/Phate in this thread. Phate, who thinks CSL is scum. The other 2 times were @gayle's, answering a question.

If CSL is scum, I doubt he is my, or Evil's buddy.

[mykonian]

The fact that you chose me out of the four people that have posted since game start without voting is interesting---those being myself, mykonian, DGB, Ojanen.

Any particular reason for that?

Well, I felt like, in 109 (quoted below), you were sorta drumming up support for the Gayle wagon without committing to it. That can be a scum move. I mean, there were only like three votes on Gayle at the time, so there's no reason to withhold it.

Semi defending gayle?

Btw, mykonian, what are

your

scum tells?

<3 mykonian & farside

if I weren't mykonian, I would think I was his buddy.

Well, it seems that ABR is going to get lynched.

Unvote; Vote: ABR

This is awful.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

he later vote Fishy again.

a point against Evilsnail is that he is quite active in a mini (at least, I see his name there quite often as last post), while there is little action here.

FoS Evilsnail.

Eh, some games require little thought, while others have 43 pages to sift through.

I don't mind pops's justification for his CSL vote so much, even though I'm not a huge fan of policy lynches. The observation that there was no "obvscum" struck me as strange, though. There's plenty of people making cases. Heck, there's a bandwagon on me that people seem to like. By making these wagons out to be non-existent or weak, he's basically making the reasoning behind his vote out to be weaker than it is.

Too bad Fishy and Evilsnail didn't use all that time they spent arguing to hunt far more obvious scum: "Lurk and Lie" CSL,"Wagon Hop" Pops, and "Respond to everything with a flurry of misleading arguments" Myko.

The people voting evilsnail for Elli's point are being ridiculous. Why do you guys keep going for this "scumslip" nonsense? Elli made a similar point about Jack, and look what happened. Please don't lynch over such a stupid reason.

I like this post, and not just because of the point about me. Scum-Gayle has no real reason to tie herself to three wagons that clearly. It could really come back to haunt her.

Pops's response to Ojanen seems off. Considering that pops is pursuing a policy lynch on CSL and not making a case on anyone himself, dismissing all available cases out of hand is really unproductive. Also, I think Ojanen made some fair points about Rhinox's play. I read over pops's ISO and she hasn't contributed real cases in a long time (which I realise now some players have been pointing out for a while). I don't know how this measures up to pops's meta, but it is certainly not helping us.

I feel this is too strong a move to be on his buddy.

I can get behind a pops lynch today, especially if CSL gets teleported to U2.

Evilsnail

, why are you on Fishy?

I've had a gut feeling about him since about halfway through Day 1, from his discussion of a slip you made. And the way he jumped on my wagon earlier today was unconvincing to me. He's a very reasonable player, so he doesn't trip up that clearly.

I still like a pops lynch today. Won't vote yet, because I think he's at L-1, but I will hammer if nothing changes.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

after the claim.

Unvote, Vote: pops

Awesome.

and for the lynch

---

On this point, I think Evil is scum, with CSL, and around the pop's lynch, we had 2 wagons on scum.

---

I don't like how you all are acting like Hoopla is confirmed scum. Especially evilsnail, who just tacks a vote for Hoopla onto the bottom of an otherwise unrelated post.

Like my vote is really that different from, say, fishy's?

I don't see myself voting anyone but Hoopla at this point. I don't think there are many good Mafia A candidates left. I can buy Raskol and Hoopla as pops's scumbuddies, but outside of that only really maybe myko or fishy. I am getting a pretty solid pro-town vibe from most of the other players. Combine that with the scumslip and Hoopla's got to go.

but hoopla was town.

I have skipped Evil's votecount analysis.

@Evil: I want gut. 3 suspects. 1 line on why.

Fishy: his pops vote looked like a bus, regardless of the fact that it steered attention away from my wagon. And he was late to the ABR wagon, which seems to mostly have been town-driven.
To be honest, Raskol, gayle, myko, ojanen, CSL all seem town to me. Making me think the last scum is either Plum or Rhinox.

Of the U2 players: Elli seems town to me, Haylen scummy. Don't have a real reason for this other than gut. Dunno about Starbuck yet.

Further, those groups were made on what the total group agrees on, meaning that fishy (evil's suspect, but towny according to the rest; ojanen, neutral for myko, town for the rest; CSL, mostly considered town, but with doubts about heavy bussing) are left out because the big majority agrees on them being likely town. The more people agree on it, the more likely it is right (there is a big amount of townies that agrees on it).

I don't think I'm suspicious of fishy any more. He's giving me way too much leeway. He has enough material to make a case on me and make it stick a few times over.

I've been rethinking this game a little, sorting out my reads into strong town reads and weak ones. At this point, I think fishy, gayle, myko, Ojanen and Elli are likely town. CSL I think is probably town too, but only on the basis of pops's behaviour. The rest I'm not so sure about.

He finally stops suspecting fishy. He was practically the only one doing this. Further, he keeps everyone as town. I can't do a lot with this post, for that reason.

Atm, I think it's either CSL or SpyreX. I'm starting to reconsider my conclusion that pops's behaviour made CSL likely town, because I don't see very convincing scum elsewhere. CSL's behaviour at least fits scum and I can see a clever pops-scum pushing a policy lynch on their scumbuddy.

CSL needs to answer this:

I'm a bit surprised by CSL's vote. CSL, you said I was a null-read earlier today. What's changed?

@SpyreX: Ojanen's point was mainly that pops calling out CSL as his scum read until the end was a risky play and that there was a CSL counter-wagon after the claim. I don't see how this as very strong evidence that CSL is town. Pops knew he wasn't going to be able to teleport, so why not bus in this last statement. It wasn't like we have any evidence the CSL counterwagon after the fake claim was scum-driven.

I really don't like SpyreX's use of deflection in the above exchange with myko.

@myko: Well, I've been suspicious of CSL since the end of D1, which might be why I have trouble shaking the feeling that he's scum. Also, I don't think we should underestimate pops.

There is a difference between pointing out that I still think CSL is a good lynch and stressing how scummy this is.

Hmm.. I went and read the bit where myko backs off his Day 3 vote of me and I guess it wasn't as townie-ish as I thought. As I've said previously, I think both you and fishy are town in part because you've both been very wishy-washy on me, when you needn't have been. Myko sorta did something similar earlier today, here:

I should reread The raskol case is old. Evil is still interesting, but his admitting his scummy things makes me worry. I still have a no-read on Ojanen.

But actually he was already voting SpyreX at this point and the comment mostly repeats what fishy and you have said. So maybe it wasn't as significant as I thought.

I'm starting to re-evaluate my town read on myko.

Here the next case forms.

I will be happy with a lynch of you three (myko, SpyreX, evil)

If myko or SpyreX flip town, the other one is scum. If evil is town, both must be scum. Vice versa applies.

Don't ask why, it's just a gut read.

Eh.. forget what I said earlier. CSL is town. This isn't scum-play.

and here he gets off CSL

It just feels very town. It doesn't make any sense. So I'm back to my original conclusion that CSL is town. I guess my thoughts about this game are kinda all over the place at the moment. I'm also getting a very strong feeling that I was completely wrong about myko and that he's scum at the moment, which I can't really explain very well.

@CSL: There are two cases on me, I suppose. The first, from Day 2, was largely built on my inactivity. I feel like I've compensated for that since by becoming more active, though. The second case, from Day 3, is based on my interaction with pops. I was a bit ambivalent about the pops wagon, so I ended up staying off it. Also, I voted CSL after the fake claim.

My order of preference at the moment: myko > Phate > CSL > fishy.

I think that regardless of what we do, we should try to have U2 lynch first anyway. Once that game is over, we should have more info to go on.

I'm still inclined to think myko is the right lynch today, though his posts today give me a definite townie feeling. This is bothering me a little.

That's the basis for your vote? After like 70 pages of a game? Now

that

is a scum tell.

FYI, I just posted that right after I saw the NK without thinking and then started reading ISOs to see how it affects my reads. I'm pretty sure now it's you and Phate. I have a probably solid town read on CSL. I'll plan to go into more detail about this when I have more time (should be soon).

as a reaction on my vote. I think on this moment we can rule out a Evilsnail/myko pairing: what some of you have been thinking. OMGUS, at this time, is seriously unlogical between scum.

And what the hell,

Vote: mykonian

, because it's pretty obvious at this point that you're scum. Your vote on me today is terrible. You have been very inconsistent about the case on me, while never committing yourself to a real town read (like fishy or ojanen). If you at least pretended your vote today was mostly PoE, I would maybe buy it, but it's pretty clear now that I'm just an easy lynch target. We should have lynched you instead of SpyreX. I should have followed through with my gut read then.

I think an Evil-CSL pairing is the most likely from this point of view. Evil is scum, I'm sure of that.

[mykonian]

While it is indeed not very usefull to find scum, since they can talk with it just as easily, it is important to think about the setup you are playing in. I hope we agree that it is important to find the best strategy for the town first, and then lynch?

I wasn't saying that we should have never discussed strategy, I was arguing that
1, we had already laid out the strategies
2, we had already laid out the flaws with each strategy
3, town's decision has no bearing on what the teleporter will do.

Now, I do realize that the strategy we have settled on wasn't proposed until sometime after I called for an end to the discussion.

By post 147, Flareonage is seriously looking scummy

Why is Flareonage looking scummy? I've had some games with him and this is nothing out of character for him or his fellow Onage Clan members.

@Gayle: the strategy discussion has wound down, and people have reads and stuff like that. Any comments on the game, now your easy excuse for active lurking has gone?

Ugh, I like how I've been accused of actively lurking twice when I haven't even had a chance to do so. I'm sorry I went to sleep last night and didn't participate in your strategy back and forth that lead to absolutely zero scum hunting.

What am I supposed comment on? The strategy discussion? 'Cause aside from a question from Myko and attacks on myself, that is all that has happened. I don't find farside22's or DGB's replies to Myko's question scummy at all. I would probably have given the same type of answer. I think pop's attack on Flareonage was silly, but that is probably because I've played games with Flareonage before.

</bitterness>

-I need to re-read Raskol, but I think some good points have been brought up against him.

-Myko's "I agree!"+vote. This is always suspicious. Myko did a little questioning of Raskol earlier, but didn't vote him until the bandwagon picked up some steam.

Excuse me, why the fuck does myko's "scumslip" make Plum town? Also, I disagree that Myko's slip was "SCUMTELL OF THE CENTURY", though some of the comments in his follow up posts are a bit more suspect. CSL, might I ask if his slip is your sole reason for voting him?

It is difficult keeping up with you guys. Joining a large theme game with most players entirely more experienced than me and with

two

universes probably wasn't the brightest idea. But let me see if I understand the cases:

Raskol is scum because he questioned me but did not vote for me.
DGB is scum because her play and votes are erratic, and she constantly refers to other players as town.
CSL is scum because he hasn't been around, appeared suddenly to vote, and then quickly unvoted.
EK is scum because ... I don't know, why is EK scum?
Myko is scum because he said "town" instead of "scum" and made a suggestion of using teleports to keep the peace.
ABR is scum because he hasn't really done anything at all.

I don't know what to think about DGB. Myko is constantly kicking himself in the mouth and I can't decide whether that is scummy or not. I would probably be willing to vote ABR, but really I think he can be given a bit more time to start playing seriously. Until then...

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.

Though I'm up for a CSL policy lynch when anyone else is.

...I think I'll stick with the tried and true scumtells.


@DGB: You said scum is "less likely to take a stance and more likely to spread the suspicion thinly". Is Farside's last post guilty of this?

Also, Rhinox, I am deeply offended that of all those quotes in your post, mine was the only one you declined to attach a name to. As is common knowledge, this is a very terrible and dire insult, and I assure you that I will have my vengeance some day soon. I would sleep with the lights on if I were you.

Taking a look at the DGB Wagon.
-Myko votes DGB for "fabricating evidence", after DGB attacks him.
-ABR votes DGB for meta reasons and then comes up with more reasons later.
-pops votes DGB for meta, after saying he prefers an Elvis lynch.

I can understand farside and fishy's votes, but not these three.

As annoying as DGB's play might be, I think she is town, as evidenced by her outright refusal to change the way she plays no matter how scummy anyone might find it.

@ Gayle: Lot of his posts were scummy.

A lot of your posts are scummy.

Vote: CSL

@pops:

ABR is scum if none of

your

targets flip scum?


Also, changing my vote to

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

He is accusing DGB of a lack of scumhunting, when he is just as guilty. Worse, attacking her has been the only thing he has done the entire game. Adding to that, he now refuses to answer questions because "priority goes to lynching scum". Myko was right. One of them has got to go. I'd wager ABR is the scum.

ABR is going to ignore my request, apparently.

I'm good with a lynch of ABR, CSL, or Pops.

The most suspect votes on the wagon were Pops, CSL, Myko, Fishy. These four pretty much voted ABR for no reason other than he was already going down. All of them except CSL were also on the DGB wagon. All of them also made other questionable votes day 1 (Fishy to a lesser extent).

My thoughts on who is scum, from most likely to least: Pops > CSL > Myko > Fishy.

---

On this moment, I have no idea why I am doing this. Gayle was one of the big reasons pops got lynched, and you can see it here. If, it gayle is scum, Evilsnail is the biggest chance for scum, I think. He almost didn't use Evil's name (I got to ISO 56)

[mykonian]

I have only been reassured in my thinking that Evil is scum. Together with the cases I linked earlier this day, and his OMGUS vote here (since he didn't understand that I was voting him for more then one post. Really?), I am sure Evil must be our lynch here.

[mykonian]

Edit, and lets not forget his Fishy case. I would ask you to ISO evil, there is more that just doesn't seem right.

[mykonian]

It looks more like DRK. If DRK flips town, then Haylen is U2 Scum. If DRK and Haylen flip town, then by PoE, spring's replacement is obvscum.

Does that make sense? (Of course, if DRK goes scum, we then lynch Evil?)

Am I doing this right, or am I missing something?

This was the last time you mentioned Evil. Thank you for proving me right, CSL.

[mykonian]

I have changed my opinion about you only once. That was from the start of the game, to later. I have doubted my read mutliple times. I guess that means you are quite good as scum, but calling you an easy lynch is completely wrong.

There are cases on you, and they are there for a reason (unless you think they are wrong), and, because I know that those cases are mostly about recent events, some points against you are not in there, but can be found just by reading your iso. This was why I asked people to read that, and I'm sure you would agree with people making their own opinion about you, right?

[mykonian]

Hi, I'm back. I thank Haylen for waiting for me, and CSL... well, there is a reason he has stopped playing.

With one problem I'm here now, is that while the theory that if phate is scum, he is most likely with CSL, I was completely wrong about him. But I would like to make this step now, and not in the next round:

vote Phate

I don't doubt Evil will get lynched, but this is going to be a hard decision. Phate must be scum.

[mykonian]

I'm ticked off at CSL for that stunt. I said right at the start of Day 1 I had a town read on him. There was absolutely no way I would have hammered him.

As for the scums, I was spot on Day 6:

FYI, I just posted that right after I saw the NK without thinking and then started reading ISOs to see how it affects my reads. I'm pretty sure now it's you and Phate. I have a probably solid town read on CSL. I'll plan to go into more detail about this when I have more time (should be soon).

It's myko and Phate.

Interesting

to see myko going after Phate, though, considering how much he pushed for my lynch yesterday. My guess is distancing because he's worried he's today's lynch.

Vote: mykonian

Snail, you read my posts very selectively. As in, you have only read my vote.

Further, you pull the "I'm consistent and town" argument, again.

And "interesting"? Why say it in such a roundabout way? On this moment you should be convinced I am scum. But what do you do? you try to subjectively get the confirmed townies on your side.


For who didn't understand my previous post, I think it is quite obvious Evil is scum, but discussion must focus on his scumbuddy. Rushing an evil-lynch could lose us the game.

[mykonian]

Why is it "interesting". And not "scummy"? Or, "a strong point against myko is:"

Or in other words: why aren't you just making the point, in stead of subjectively putting this?



And the word: discuss: I'm saying what direction that discussion should take, my vote is there.

And in case we lynch phate: no, there is no difference. I'm town, and you two aren't.

But I'm realistic, and I think that I will have a hell of a job convincing people that Phate has to be lynched too, so I'd rather have a lot of time for that. And being realistic, I am afraid I will have a tough job even in two days.

[mykonian]

That's just the way I say things. With nuance.

I understand your point more about going after Phate, but I still think it's a weird strategy. Seems to me that if you're sure I'm scum, it makes more sense to go after me. You'll have an easier time getting me lynched. A dangerous choice if you're pro-town (though you aren't).

Nuance? No, Snail. When you know who is scum, there is no need for nuance. You are supposed to be certain, but you still play your little games to convince people.

The fact that you're even concerned with the next day is weird. Heck, I'd just be happy to survive today, because that's the only way we don't lose this game today already. I'll admit openly that I'm going after you because you're the easier target. I know for a fact both you and Phate are scum. I don't really care which one of you we lynch first. The only thing I'm concerned with right now is self-preservation, because my lynch = town loss. Planning for the long haul is something only scum can afford to do right now.

I'm sorry, but I have to lynch 2 people, in stead of one, and that is our difference: you only need one more mislynch, and you show it clearly here. You don't care about the next day: for a reason.

But, this is not constructive: I can show you are scum, and that is fun and all. But that isn't going to win us the game. Phate needs to get lynched too.

[mykonian]

Read Snail in total, please. Taking one point and running with that is sooooo 2009.

anyway, I agree, snail is probably scum. But is there any way I can convince you it must be phate who is his buddy?

[mykonian]

unvote vote Evilsnail

[mykonian]

blegh. It was fun in the start. But town, what did you help us, it was as if you wanted us to win.

Guys, think for a moment. If someone asks for no CC, he could be the PR himselves. If not, he could be scum. He is going to get in trouble in case nothing follows:

What do you think scum would do when asked for a CC or be lynched? ABR didn't counterclaim. Thank you: he couldn't be scum.

DGB in a game is beforehand a problem for rational scum (=me) she's kind of unpredictable. And who gets under serious pressure, even so far that she is forced to claim? yeah...

And then the most tragic of all lynches. Spyrex. The guy who within a few posts has a case on me that is perfectly right, and shows that I

must

be scum. Elvis her theory-argument where she says I was arguing to keep my team together (you were right) was good, but could have been me as a towny making a mistake.

Here I couldn't be the towny playing bad. If spyrex, or anyone else just had taken the time to find a town game of me, and just looked at length of posts, you would have caught me, without any problem. (so, ironically, you are the first to catch me on meta, Spyrex). Aaaaand, what do you do, town? yes, you lynch him.

Spyrex was right: From that moment there should be nothing that keeps us from winning, unless the mafia was really shooting themselves in the foot.

and believe me, we tried.

Killing elli (we thought you were town), wasn't too clever, and almost cost us the game. We killed the teleporters in such a way that there came more players here then went out. We were too late with using our own teleport, which would have given us an earlier lylo.

Basically, you played worse then we (read, gayle) did. One could say gayle won the game for us already already on day 2, because it was made so easy from then for scum: there was no real pressure, gayle would win anyway.

[mykonian]

Congrats scum, and thanks for modding zoraster!

I thought the teleporting mechanic was really fun when I was the teleporter. Powerhunger and all that. But from the vanilla standpoint, I wasn't so sure. I can't really put my finger on why, but it was psychologically somehow irritating to have these people who seemed possible scum to be out of reach, out of being able to effectively interact with them about the relevant universe, out of being able to consider getting flips until much later.

If the town2teleporter would have pulled DGB, I was so fearing such a scenario. Just imagine, DGB haunting you from the other universe, out of your reach.

That made that I thought it was necesary to wait for the end of the other town's night, just to be sure I took every chance to take out DGB

And the inbuilt drawback of having an endgame consisting of several townies who never really got into the game due to the large amount of catching up was imo rather anti-climatic. Like an early, hyperactive phase followed by a ghost town of mostly people who were never involved and scum.

I hate to say it, but: I TOLD YOU THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

[mykonian]

Don't ask me, read our thread. Basically we wifomed ourselves out of the two obvious kills (starbuck, the mason, and SL, the teleportee), and then we suddenly agreed on you!

Fun, wasn't it?

[mykonian]

Guy's, seriously, stop saying "myko was so clearly scum"

it is as if they should have lynched me