Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[Adel]

why is everyone claiming noises?

[Adel]

@Adel- mass noise claiming should be done everyday.

I disagree.

I think that waiting to claim until a later day will reveal more verifiable liars.

[Adel]

vote:dramonic

~~~

What is the reason for claiming ward or not ward today as well?

[Adel]

If we are waiting until later to reveal things like this it would be much easier for the scum to get around in their own claims.

not true.

with 2 or 3 nights worth of interaction, especially if town players focus more on investigation than ward and resurrect, the scum wont be able to figure out what they can get away with claiming as easily.

[Adel]

fuck it, I'll play it your way, the cult is already down with it so the rest of us sheeple should go along with it.

i heard a noise, and I think it is retarded to be claiming, and people shouldn't be saying if they warded or not, but I didn't ward.

[Adel]

I'm not claiming day 2.

[Adel]

Additionally, as this mistake was made last game, players should probably not use the investigate action tonight. As the action order is the same as it was in the previous game, players do not get bloody on any night from murders or the ritual until after investigation are resolved for that same night.

Actions dealing with blood take place in the following order:
Launder (removes blood)
Resuscitate or be resuscitated successfully (become bloody)
Investigate (find blood)
Murder (become bloody)
Ritual Resolves (become bloody)

You cannot find any murderers or players who participated in the ritual as bloody on either night zero or night one.

Investigation is like the war on drugs, a majority of the time it doesn't really do much of anything (since whoever gets bloody from doing something bad can always launder before they can next be investigated) but it's still necessary to do as to keep the killing people in check forcing them to launder.

wait, so if a cultist chooses "ritual" or "murder" and then chooses "launder" on the next night, she

can not

be caught by an investigation?

[Adel]

Vote: Adel

It seems odd to me that you are making such a big deal about us claiming, yet didn't start trying to change people's minds until many players had already claimed.

lol

it is much more odd that people started claiming before consensus was reached, or conversation even began. They started claiming before I had a chance to post.

Obviously, a person who played in the first game is cult in this game, and they decided to go with the full claims pronto.

[Adel]

I give up. I stalked Adel.

Reasoning:

Adel is a good player -> What if he's cult -> If he is we're all screwed.

vote:animorpherv1

[Adel]

Adel, why do claims benefit cult?

1. they have daytalk
2. they have players from the last Sars game
3. they are prepared, and thay can collaberate and adjust to our tactics

our best case of disrupting them is if we make a bunch of claims (like 3 nights worth) at one time, and it is too complex for them to figure out in time during a massclaim.

[Adel]

Why are people claiming noises and wards on the first page?

I know!

nobody felt like replying to this exchange either:

Adel, can you explain why we should wait until later to claim. I don't get it.

Vote: Adel

It seems odd to me that you are making such a big deal about us claiming, yet didn't start trying to change people's minds until many players had already claimed.

Vote: Adel

It seems odd to me that you are making such a big deal about us claiming, yet didn't start trying to change people's minds until many players had already claimed.

lol

it is much more odd that people started claiming before consensus was reached, or conversation even began. They started claiming before I had a chance to post.

Obviously, a person who played in the first game is cult in this game, and they decided to go with the full claims pronto.

~~~

I believe that it is essential to lynch ani at this point. Riculaulsly anti-town play requires dicipline and punishment by lynch.

Giving people a pass for being "too scummy to be scum" isn't going to help us win.

He can't

prove

that he can't hammer, so his claim is not verifiable.

[Adel]

Eww. The only way out was if she somehow thought that Stalk was a form of tracking. Then it would make sense to Stalk a perceived skilled player. How obnoxious.

I'll leave my vote, anyway. I don't like being naked, and I don't yet see an obvious alternate target.

I'm not accusing you of scummy intentions, but it is typically a bad idea to tell people what their reasonable explaination should be.

[Adel]

So, if Adel gets killed, kill Ani? But for today leave him alone?

I'm for currently looking elsewhere. I am against making a solid statement of what to do with Animorpherv1 if Adel is or is not successfully/unsuccessfully murdered. The bridge will be crossed when we come to it. Deciding those things now or in advance is speculative and not beneficial to town.

I'm for lynching him quickly and moving on to night before this spam fest leaves us with 75 pages of nosie.

I'm still not going to claim anythign on day 2.

[Adel]

2. they have players from the last Sars game

You speak like you have a list of the scum players in this game. It is hard for Investigators to make such bold assumptions.

you must be new here. How do like mafia so far?


~~~


Ellibereth: always read for yourself, always.

[Adel]

IMO, you have been anti-town so far during this game.

prove to us that you are sincere about this.

How did you arrive at that opinion?

Which posts influenced your opinion?

What makes me more antitown than other players?

Why do you think that I shopuld be lynched?

What exactly about my play has been anti-town?

[Adel]

I nominate Dramonic to be the graverobber.

2nd

[Adel]

panic? lol.

Show me where it is obvious that players from the first game are scum in this game. It's not. Mere speculation. I was in the first game and I am not scum. I'm not saying there are no players from the first game on the scum team in this one, but I don't see how you can say it is obvious that is the case in this game. Nothing more than an assumption on your part, or you have inside information because you are scum.

or I know something that you don't.

[Adel]

He can't

prove

that he can't hammer, so his claim is not verifiable.

Try to discredit obvTown player by bringing up a useless point. Anti-town.

1. he isn't Obvtown
2. it isn't useless. It was incorrect, but it wasn't useless. Go ahead and read closer to discover what was clearly wrong about my post, but clearly you are too busy trying to smear me instead of scumhunt. If you were thinking analytically you would've pointed out my mistake instead of not noticing it and dismissing my point as "useless".

[Adel]

He can be checked with Occult Books. If he has no insanity, he is lying scum. If he does, he is either idiot town or stalker town. Town = worse lynch than scum. Pushing for town instead of scum hunting = proScum. I think he has an insanity NOW and was just trying to explain it off. I am more than willing to believe he stalked.

even though I was warded by another player? really?

[Adel]

Show me where it is obvious that players from the first game are scum in this game. It's not. Mere speculation. I was in the first game and I am not scum. I'm not saying there are no players from the first game on the scum team in this one, but I don't see how you can say it is obvious that is the case in this game. Nothing more than an assumption on your part, or you have inside information because you are scum.

or I know something that you don't.

Exactly, I'm sure you do, scum.

please stop coordinating with your scummates in your Qt thread and answer me.

[Adel]

He can be checked with Occult Books. If he has no insanity, he is lying scum. If he does, he is either idiot town or stalker town. Town = worse lynch than scum. Pushing for town instead of scum hunting = proScum. I think he has an insanity NOW and was just trying to explain it off. I am more than willing to believe he stalked.

even though I was warded by another player? really?

If you were warded and he stalked you and his stalk failed, why would he be trying to cover up an insanity? He wouldn't because he wouldn't have one. If it is because he is scum and trying to cover up a future insanity, which I find highly unlikely, that can be checked with Occult Books.

now that you've outed yourself are you trying to play stupid so that we'll give you a pass for being a VI? That isn't going to happen, so please just stop it.

If he really did stalk me then he

would not claim an insanity

-- but he did.

Why do you think that he is Obvtown?

[Adel]

prove to us that you are sincere about this.

How did you arrive at that opinion?

Which posts influenced your opinion?

What makes me more antitown than other players?

Why do you think that I shopuld be lynched?

What exactly about my play has been anti-town?

Follow along...

I'm not claiming day 2.

Noise, action and insanity claims in the first game led to an overwhelming town victory. What better alternative do you suggest? A hardline stance against claims providing a tracking system for the town seems a little anti-town to me.

Prerefusal to help the town going forward. Anti-town.

Avoiding my question, Anti-town. Given, you

much

later answered a similar question.

-------------------

Obviously, a person who played in the first game is cult in this game, and they decided to go with the full claims pronto.

Show me where it is obvious that players from the first game are scum in this game. It's not. Mere speculation. I was in the first game and I am not scum. I'm not saying there are no players from the first game on the scum team in this one, but I don't see how you can say it is obvious that is the case in this game. Nothing more than an assumption on your part, or you have inside information because you are scum.

-------------------

I give up. I stalked Adel.

Reasoning:

Adel is a good player -> What if he's cult -> If he is we're all screwed.

vote:animorpherv1

Wagon jump on obvTown player. Anti-town.

--------------------

2. they have players from the last Sars game

Same assumption as before, see above.

--------------------

I believe that it is essential to lynch ani at this point.

Panic at realization there is target on your back so you push to eliminate and obvTown player. Anti-town.

He can't

prove

that he can't hammer, so his claim is not verifiable.

Try to discredit obvTown player by bringing up a useless point. Anti-town.

--------------------

I'm for lynching him quickly and moving on to night before this spam fest leaves us with 75 pages of nosie.

Repeated panic and move for lynch of obvTown player for self-preservation reasoning. Anti-town.

I'm still not going to claim anythign on day 2.

Repeated prerefusal to help the town going forward. Anti-town.

who thinks that all of this is evidence of scumhunting?

I'm currently taking it as evidence of pseudo-scumhunting, but I can fully compensate for my OMGUS reaction to what I consider overly wordy and poorly thought out posting that trys to implicate me as scummy.

I really don't think that it is sincere.

[Adel]

He has an insanity. I don't really see why scum would at this point.

why do you think that he has an insanity?

[Adel]

perhaps when I get a forth one wrong you will catch on.

[Adel]

I think that warders should only claim if they targeted me or VP baltar.


in the future warders should wait to claim targets as long as possible.


~~~

perhaps when I get a forth one wrong you will catch on.

Scum never have to read as close as town. I already caught on.

another insincere post made to smear me.

evidence:

Scum never have to read as close as town. I already caught on.

Hmm? Really? Why? Not that I'm not somewhat receptive to Adelscum.

More of a blanket statement, in this game, I would think it be equally important for scum and town to read everything as there is so much going on. In a regular game, scum can float along when their tactics are working without having to pay attention to every detail of the thread.

he backtracked almost immediately.

scum: {ani, sly}

[Adel]

I'm not claiming day 2.

Noise, action and insanity claims in the first game led to an overwhelming town victory. What better alternative do you suggest? A hardline stance against claims providing a tracking system for the town seems a little anti-town to me.

as I see it the policy based deaths of zwet and mastin led to an overwhelming town victory.

why are you against an ani lynch?

~~~

He has an insanity. I don't really see why scum would at this point.

why do you think that he has an insanity? He claimed that he did, why do you believe him?

[Adel]

Anyway, explain why claiming ward target is bad

an in-game example: if Baltar had claimed to target me with his Ward first then Ani never would've fake-claimed to have successfully stalked me.

[Adel]

Yes, but we'd not know it was a fake claim unless we, at some point, claim ward targets

I think we should do that before a hammer.

right. the tricks to calims is:
1. to know which day to claim on
2. to know

when

during the day to claim
3. to know what to claim in which order.

NONE

of that was discussed prior to the claims springing forth en mass in this game.

I've concluded that there must be Stars I players among the scum because:
1. there are a lot of them in this game.
2. if there were no Stars 1 players in the cult I would expect a couple of those players to agree with me (they know that I'm not cult) and fight the claiming. That didn't happen. Therefor the scum players who questioned the mass claiming had their questions about why claiming would be good answered in their daytalking thread.
3. this is not the same setup as Stars 1, the cult is stronger, and the technique the town relied upon to catch murders will not work as well to catch coordinated cult who have daytalking.


~~~

Please explain or provide an example of why this is bad. I asked already and have been ignored. You repeating that you are against it is not an explanation.

I can't answer it without giving the scum tips. I'm not going to explain what I think the optimal cult counter to our current process is.

~~~

That game was pretty much a perfect run for the town. I have not reread the game since it was over, so I don't know exactly what you are referring to, nor am I going to go back and dig for it. But I know that the ongoing information gathering by all the claims throughout the game lead to an overwhelming town victory. It was not just the lynch of two people.

sure dude, day 2 opened with 3/5 of the cult dead, and all of you are geniuses for winning. Congrats on your amazing system

that the reviewers and game designer obviously weren't aware of and wouldn't have adjusted for in the design of this game

.

~~~

The only person who needs to be claiming their ward target at this point is someone who warded myself or Adel.

totally agree.

[Adel]

EBWOP: 3. this is not the same setup as Stars 1, the cult is stronger, and the technique the town relied upon to catch murders will not work as well to catch coordinated cult who have daytalking.

The cult players who were in the first game obviously know the favored tactic from the first game and have coached their team to roll with it

[Adel]

"The trick to claiming is to know when to do it, so I'm not going to discuss whether or not we should claim, I'm just going to say we shouldn't"

Thats the summary I just got.

good.

a better way to approach claiming

instead of everyone just claiming before we have a chance to talk about claiming

:
1. people voice opinions as to if claiming is a good idea or not, without offering reasons
2. talk about it in general terms
3. offer reasons pro and con only as needed to reach a consensus

[Adel]

why are you against an ani lynch?

I think he is obvTown and I think it is much better to look for scum to lynch.

scumtell: talking in circles instead of providing a rational root for an opinion.

Why do you think that he is Obvtown?

He has an insanity. I don't really see why scum would at this point.

why do you think that he has an insanity? He claimed that he did, why do you believe him?

I see that as the only logical explanation for his actions.

the real story: SlySly is cult, and either is defending his buddy, or defending someone he knos is not cult.

unvote, vote:SlySly

We can test Ani's

{(viii) Avolition - For three Days, your vote no longer contributes to a lynch. Your vote still shows up in vote counts.}

insanity by having him vote for Slysly. When we have enough "votes" on SlySly for a lynch then we wait and see if Ani was telling the truth about his insanity. If he is telling the truth then he definitely non-cult.

[Adel]

Have him test it on himself, on Sly sly gives him a different perspective. If he does it on himself, I believe it gives him a lot more pressure to tell the truth. If he's not lying, he's got nothing to worry about, but not on SlySly.

I stand corrected.


What is the votecount currently at? We don't want an "accidental" hammer if he is telling the truth.

[Adel]

Then you start by answering my Pros

do you mind if I wait for Drench to claim and for elvis and Wick to claim if they targeted me or VP Baltar?

[Adel]

Go for it.

please self-vote so that we can test it. The lynch threshold is currently 13.

Next insanity isn't going to be anything really stupid.

why would you pick up another?

[Adel]

@mod: can we has votecount please?

~~~

vote:animorpherv1

thank you
~~~
DrippingGoofball, your vibe sense was correct. I didn't have a scum read on him, but I strongly believed in the utility of his lynch until I noticed that there was a way of testing his claim without a lynch. Now we will have hard evidence for his town-alignment instead of "too scummy to be scum" which is a really horrible precedent to set in a game.

~~~

Actually, I got a PM from Percy telling me I failed, then a PM telling me that he was wrong, and I suceeded.

an awesome detail, but couldn't that information have waited until

after

the remaining player (drench) claimed, and until after elvis and Wick stated if they targeted me or VP Baltar or not?

would town players please stop being so eager to give their information away?

[Adel]

Ward

"Rest easy. They can't cross this circle."

Target

: Any other player.

Effect

: If your target is targeted by the

Pass Fetish

,

Craft Fetish

or

Stalk

actions, those actions fail.

Prerequisites

: None.

Side Effects

: Your target hears

Noise

. You hear

Noise

. Your action will fail if someone targets you with

Ward

, and you will not be notified of the failure. If you choose this action two nights in a row, you gain an

Insanity

.

which is correct:
1.

If VP is warded, then that means his Ward on Adel did not work

OR

2.

If VP warded Adel, wards on him will have failed, not the other way around.

I think that the key phrase is

"Your action will fail if"

[Adel]

vote:animorpherv1

thank you

obvTown, like I said.

bullshit, you gave no reason for thinking so! All you offered is scummy circular nonsense!

You are still my best pick for cult.

[Adel]

vote: animorpherv1

that should make 12.

we need

exactly

one more votes to test Ani's claim. If there are two more then if he is town he will be mislynched, so be very careful. Please use the preview function before you submit you post with a vote in it.

If we do this right then we get a confirmed townie.

[Adel]

i'm ready to unvote as soon as you hammer.

[Adel]

unvote

[Adel]

dramonic, please do not unvote.

I want to make sure that Percy accepts the

vote: ani

format.

~~~

I support Phate's plan, ans Seacore's amendment to it.

Ani: Assuming you survive, you will rob graves every night. Furthermore, you shall not take any action that causes you to gain an insanity. Any deviation from this course will lead to your lynch. If Ani has died, Dramonic, you are our grave robber.

~~

@Nico: he means no other actions that will yield insanities.

[Adel]

So is Ani fully cleared, or are we worried about another wannabe murderer with an Avolition insanity being on the wagon trying to spread chaos?

For 100% verification we could clear the wagon and get the other 12 players to vote for Ani along with Ani.

[Adel]

btw, I think that I just broke the setup for the town.

[Adel]

that'll only prove no one has avolition. there are quite a few other insanities potential murderer could take.

right, but if you or some other wannabe murderer stalked last night, then you probably picked the same insanity just like you did last game, and we want Ani to be fully confirmed.

~~~

@SlySly: Why aren't you playing under your "crypto" alt in this game? Do you still think that I am scum?

[Adel]

unvote

Sorry, that went right over my head.

All that the lack of the lynch proves is that one

or more

players on the Ani wagon had an Avolition insanity. We want to confirm that Ani has the an Avolition insanity, and it is even more unlikely that another player with the Avolition insanity exists in this game but was off of the wagon.

If we wanted to be really meticulous about it we could cycle through every 12 player permutation.

[Adel]

(rough draft, soliciting feedback)

How to break this game:
1. Fully confirm Ani. He did not hear noise last night.

2. Take the remaining 12 players. Use dice tags to randomly divide those players into 2 groups, one group of 22 and one group of 2. (the 20 and 4 are ballpark figures)

3. Use dice tags to randomly assign targets for each of those 22 players from within the group of 22 players with no overlap.

4. Night 1 each of the 22 players stalks another of the 22 players. Night 2 they kill their target. Scum will not be able to kill town or scum, but town will be able to kill town and scum. The kills that fail leave relatively confirmed townies left alive, and clearly indite cult players if they still happen to be alive.

5. Night 1 some of the 4 players ward some each other and Ani. Night 2 others ward each other and Ani.

6. Day 3 opens with some definitely scum players left, and some relatively confirmed townies, and possibly all of the cultist dead.

~~~

This is a draft, it needs to be worked though

VERY

carefully to make sure that it will work, and that it cannot be broken by the scum.

[Adel]

EBWOP: 2. Take the remaining 12 players. Use dice tags to randomly divide those players into 2 groups, one group of 22 and one group of 2. (the

20 and 4

22 and 2

are ballpark figures)

5. Night 1

some of the 4 players ward some each other and Ani. Night 2 others ward each other and Ani.

one of the two targets Ani with Ward. Night 2 the other targets Ani with Ward

.

~~~

Still waiting for a noise and ward target claim from drench. Still waiting for a "I did or did not target Adel or VP Baltar with my Ward last night" claim from Wick and elvis knits.

[Adel]

Sup Texas Justice, this was brought up in Stars 1.

did you have a confirmed townie on day 1?

Did scum argue against it?

Why didn't you guys try it?

[Adel]

@Adel

Dude, get a grip. Some of us want to play the game that Percy worked so hard to setup and run for us. If this was my game and you offered this up, you would either be replaced immediately or modkilled. You are the type of player that ruins games for everyone, mod included. I know you think you are smarter than the rest of us, but some of us don't care and want to have fun in a cool game.

lol,

vote:SlySly

[Adel]

First, before you quit, do you still think that I am scum?

[Adel]

I dont think it will work honestly, since it was brought up in Stars 1. Percy, naturally, would go about fixing that. Oh and it would induce chaos?

nope. Chaos is the mechanic that was supposed to prevent this, but they didn't think it through all of the way.

I'm all about the easy win, and then we reboot with a fixed setup and play again.

~~~

I have an a priori skepticism that choosing to randomly select targets in a scenario where the only ones who die will be town is net pro-town. But it does seem that way intuitively, doesn't it?

think of it this way: each the town has a gun, and the scum do not. We are taking advantage of our superior firepower and applying it systematically to reveal who does not have a gun. The people without guns can't kill. Only the scum can't kill. If 4 or 5 of them are in a row, this plan will fail, but the odds of that happening through random chance are absurdly slim, especially compared with our theoretical win rate.

~~~

dramonic there won't be any murderers. They won't have enough time to change win conditions.

[Adel]

EBWOP:

....everyone else agrees to it...

do you still think that I am scum?

[Adel]

There are currently 25 players
1 Will die to end the day

we don't have to lynch to end the day. There is a deadline.

Play to win the game.

wannabe murders currently have an investigator win condition. To sabotage an auto-win tactic violates that rule, and the "spirit of the game" which is "play to win".

Breaking a setup is winning. To refuse to participate in breaking a setup is something I do not understand. If it makes you feel any better, I'm really confident that they didn't properly balance for the cult's daytalking ability.

[Adel]

Can I get a simple

support

or

oppose

from each player?

[Adel]

I disagree with your definition of playing to win the game.

I'm an investigator who considered aiming at being a murderer from N0. If I had made that choice (which I didn't) I would consider the Murderer win condition to be mine.

I also disagree that your plan makes it harder for murderers to win. I think it makes it very easy for a murderer to win.

this is where working through the various permutations of wagons to identify insanities comes from. We can force the bad faith actors to either out their insanity or give up their night action. I've got more tricks I'm not revealing yet.

[Adel]

Also, I don't see how your plan guarantees us a win of the game.

it isn't 100%

Rather than removing most mafia aspects of the game and giving us a good chance of winning.

as I understand it, regardless of the game, maximizing our % chance of winning is how we play to win.

Won't cultists simply fetish every time investigators stalk, and Ritual in the place of a murder?

they can't kill 4 or 5 people in one night.

[Adel]

I think it's time Adel explained it better.

From what it seems to me, it means that actual scum hunting lynch discussions are to replaced by randomly orchestrated stalk/murder combos, that will very likely (but not certainly) remove all but one cultist from the game (the remaining cultist will be able to fetish/ritual in replacement of stalk/murder).

as I see it, it should leave us with 2+ confirmed townies, 1+ confirmed scum, and ~2 players of questionable alignment.

It is quite similar to chess where the players exchange 80% of their pieces, and the guy who is left with two extra pawns on the board gets a huge advantage for the win.

[Adel]

btw, those numbers are guesses. After Phate's question gets answered we will have a better idea of what the hard numbers will be.

[Adel]

ah, so it brings us to lylo without any scum hunting for days

excellent plan

with confirmed townies, and it shouldn't be lylo.

[Adel]

assuming that we decide that a plan will work, yes, I believe that we should no lynch.

Wait, so the basic idea is that half of us stalks the other half and goes for avolition insanity, do I have that right?

I hadn't given much thought to which insanity should be picked, but

If a character posts before PMing their Insanity choice(s) to the Moderator, or if they contradict one of their Insanities in any post,

the Moderator will insert the text "Insanity Infraction" into the post. If a character receives 3 Insanity Infractions in one game Day, they will lose their Night Action for the following Night,

and will gain an Insanity instead. If a player reaches an Insanity Count of 8, they will no longer gain any Insanities. Votes that contradict Insanities will not contribute to a Lynch.

is a key for winning this game.

Cultist cannot have insanities following Night 1, and there are insanities that we can test for.

[Adel]

So you want people who should have gotten the insanity through stalking/killing to break them on purpose to test if they have them, right? So distraction, paranoid, and twitching should be the right ones for that.

correct.

This also means any investigators who decided to be wannabe murderes and stalk N0 would need to claim. Or not?

it wouldn't hurt, but it is not necessary


~~~

revised plan:

(rough draft 2, still soliciting feedback)

How to break this game:
1. Fully confirm Ani. He did not hear noise last night.

2. Take the remaining 24 players. Use dice tags to randomly divide those players into 2 groups, one group of 22 and one group of 2.

3. Use dice tags to randomly assign targets for each of those 22 players from within the group of 22 players with no overlap.

4. Night 1 each of the 22 players stalks another of the 22 players. Each player picks the *twitch* insanity.

5. Day 2 we all vote for people without posting *twitch* to demonstrate who does not have that insanity. We lynch and vig players out of the 22 player group that failed to draw an "insanity infraction" edit from the mod.

~~~

This is a draft, it needs to be worked though VERY carefully to make sure that it will work, and that it cannot be broken by the scum.

Who wants to take it the next step?

[Adel]

I am opposed to breaking games. When breaking the game was brought up last Stars Aligned game I was opposed to doing it. In other games when I have seen a breaking strategy that wins the game before it can be brought up in the thread, I PM the mod to point it out asking for a rules modification to prevent the game from being broken.

I am here to play mafia. I would argue that what you are suggesting is not

playing

to win because you aren't playing mafia, you are just going through motions and watching things happen.

for a town aligned player, playing mafia consists of attempting to lynch the informed minority. Developing a fail-resistent or fail-proof method of achieving is superior play. Declining to maximize your odds of success

within the stated rules

is literally a tactic for losers.

At this point I see 3 or 4 potential methods for breaking the game. If the mod asks me to replace out I shall, but until then I will continue to strive to achieve my win condition.

[Adel]

We've got a potential of 9 Murderers already ready to kill as soon as the sun goes down. Unless we get a lot of cross-killing, town could be hurting, especially if we don't have a lot of Rescuscitation Kits handy.

I want to see if Adel's plan accounts for this. It might be back to the drawing board. Am I missing something?

you are missing that 5 cultist picked Craft Fetish last night

Target: Up to two non-Cultists.
Effect: You create a Fetish of your targets.
Prerequisite: You must be a Cultist to choose this action.
Side Effect: Your targets hear Noise.
Notes: Fetishes are not equipment, and once made are available to the Cult as a group. This action will fail if your target has also been the target of Pass Fetish.

And if a town stalks a person who dies tonight, then it's worthless for them since they can't kill the next night anyway and then they're back on the same board as murderers and cultists in waiting 2 nights before they can kill again.

but those that do stalk will pick the "twitch" insanity, and we should have at least 3 (assuming that there isn't 2 cult among ani + the two warders) cultist exposed before the end of the day tomorrow.

[Adel]

don't sweat it semiold guy. I've requested replacement out since my approach to mafia and the mod's are not compatible in this game.

I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, especially my own.