Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[Seacore]

I haven't read through yet.

Claiming ward and noise is good. It turned out last game that those who were against this kind of thing were nearly all scum.

So, I didn't ward and I did hear noise

[Seacore]

animo...

Your post summarised is that:

Play townie very scummy
You scum hunt very badly
You chose an action with no benefit
and now you've handicapped yourself even further with an insanity

And you want us to keep you alive til day 4 so you can contribute

[Seacore]

oh, I forgot to

vote Animo

I think you're probably scum who's found what he thinks is a lame-town reason to explain away an insanity point.

[Seacore]

Animo wants us to believe that he chose the only useless night 0 action, not to mention one of only two night 0 actions that cause insanity.

So there are two possibilties

1) He is cult
2) He stalked last night
3) He is a waste of space and the most useless town we have.

I am happy to lynch based on these three possibilities

The comparison is Dramonic, who I'll admit I haven't had great experiences with in other games, but that's pure meta bias, and nothing he's done in this game deserves a lynch.

I don't believe what he just said was a slip, he's simply saying that Sajin would catch him the moment he went bad.

[Seacore]

EBWOP
Lol, I only thought of possibility 2) after I started typing, obviously there are 3 possibilities

[Seacore]

My bad, I thought that craft fetish caused insanity.

Even so, he could be trying to fake his insanity today to write it off tomorrow.

Also, his original story seemed to suggest that he wanted the insanity, because he's useless town. Now he's saying he's "shocked"

I stand by the three possible explanations of his behaviour and that he should die.

[Seacore]

Sajin,

I'm not satisfied with you description that it's a policy vote

I think Ani is either
a) Murderer in the making
b) Scum preparting to hide an insanity
c) Useless town

If it was just c) then I'd say it's policy. But it's not, I'm just saying worst case scenario, it's not bad.

[Seacore]

I think we pick somebody else to be the dedicated grave robber. I'm happy with that aspect of Sajin's post.

But I don't think it should be ani, I think ani should die.

On another note, what do people think about admitting who you warded?
Don't do so until we've reached a consensus, but I'm pro it, I think it identifies who heard a noise for other reasons, and thus who needs to be protected.

[Seacore]

I've seen Day 1 scum do stupid claims before.

Cults of Darkness and Shadow anybody? One scum came out and invented a role even though it was a semi-open set up with all roles detailed.

[Seacore]

Can somebody who has time edit our ward/noise list to show those who heard noise but did not ward?

[Seacore]

I find three unlikely, as potential murderers would not want to draw this sort of attention to themselves. Four is unlikely because I can't imagine that cult wouldn't discuss each of their night actions prior to doing them.

Would 1 not be just as unlikely as 4, considering the excuse that Ani used?

I've seen Day 1 scum do stupid claims before.

Cults of Darkness and Shadow anybody? One scum came out and invented a role even though it was a semi-open set up with all roles detailed.

Did the scum have nighttalk before Day 1?

Yes, the scum did have nighttalk

You can't underestimate poor action choice, and other scum overlooking their decision making capabilities.

[Seacore]

I'm more for a Lynch All Liars approach

[Seacore]

I agree with Nico on this one.

Choosing somebody to be graverobber, based on the idea that they're already insane, that's good.

For it to be somebody as unreliable as Ani

Thats bad

Let's lynch this MoFo

[Seacore]

I nominate Dramonic to be the graverobber.

If what people say is true, he'll be unable to resist being a murderer, in which case, before he can get off his second murder, he'll be swimming with insanities

2 for stalk, one for murder, 2 for grave robbing

[Seacore]

A failed action will not produce the Effect, but all Side Effects still apply

[Seacore]

Sorry, should have been clear, that's in answer to SlySly and others who question whether insanity would have occurred

[Seacore]

Also, maybe I missed it, but nobody seems to have responded to my question as to whether all warders should claim their targets.

I don't see why they shouldn't (today at least)

That way we'll be able to establish who was actually warded, and thus who heard noise from stalking/fetish crafting.

Sure, the scum will lie, but later one that may screw them up. If one of them says "I warded Joe" and later we realise that Joe had a fetish all that time, we've found a liar.

[Seacore]

I agree Sly, I don't like this blatant example of smear.

FOS: Sly


Anyway, explain why claiming ward target is bad

[Seacore]

EBWOP: Obviously I mean I agree Adel, I don't like...

[Seacore]

Yes, but we'd not know it was a fake claim unless we, at some point, claim ward targets

I think we should do that before a hammer.

[Seacore]

BTW, does anyone know how to do the nice sweet quoting that can cite the OP directly? I know the quote function but that's way too bulky.

I do it using the "quote selected" option in the quick reply, and then just adding ="OP"

[Seacore]

That's fair enough as a general rule, VP, to hold off as long as possible.

But I think we're past that now. For Day 1

Nobody but Ani is going to make stupid claims that can be refuted by Wards.
Posting them has the advantage of knowing
a) Which noises are currently unexplained
b) Who should be protected tonight
c) (later)who scum claim to have warded tonight, but who somehow seem to have been stalked/fetished

[Seacore]

"The trick to claiming is to know when to do it, so I'm not going to discuss whether or not we should claim, I'm just going to say we shouldn't"

Thats the summary I just got.

[Seacore]

Then you start by answering my Pros

[Seacore]

If VP is warded, then that means his Ward on Adel did not work. If it didn't work, Ani might be being truthful with his stalk claim

If VP wasn't warded, it means that his Ward on Adel did work, which means that Ani would have said "and my stalk failed"

So If VP's ward on Adel worked, Ani is a cultist (or just a scummy liar who should be lynched anyway)

Similiarly, if another person warded Adel, then VP's ward can be broken and Ani still is a liar.

Thats why they're special.

[Seacore]

I believe 1 is true. Which is why I said it

[Seacore]

Did anyone actually make that argument? I think the argument was largely "ami is dumbtown and/or wants to be 3rd party."

I made the argument that he could be dumb and lying scum, others also did.

Then I believe some people ojbected to this read saying that there was no way scum could be that dumb,

Adel was responding to that

[Seacore]

unvote

The waiting game sucks, lets play hungry hungry hippos

[Seacore]

I agree with Phate

If Ani has died, Dramonic, you are our grave robber.

[Seacore]

Yes

No "other" action then. This way we can count how many he should have.

[Seacore]

@Phayte- I actually have zero problem with ani taking other actions that cause insanities as long as he robs the lynch grave every day+ others if needed. Do you have a problem with him vigging one time? I guess that would be the only other useful action he could take that would cause insanity gain. Point stands though.

Um, he can only vig after a successful stalk. So the only person he can vig is Adel, which is why Sly is so happy about it. Unless he stalks somebody else and then Vigs.
I'm assuming we will direct his Vig? Since I sure as hell don't trust his judgement given the farce that is his Day 1 play so far.
We also run the risk of maxing out his insanities. Granted, that's not going to happen over night, but if he's robbing several graves, he could get there.

I'm happier with Grave Robbing being the only insanity granting action he takes, that way we can count.
Hell, I'm even for town nominating his isanities.

[Seacore]

Sorry, that went right over my head.

[Seacore]

Sorry, my confusion was about Chaco's post, which he clarified before my post went through.

[Seacore]

I'm going to be V/LA, or at least kind of, as it's the weekend here.

I'm going to

vote SlySly

because I feel he's been pretty scummy. I dont' like his circular arguments and his tunelling of Adel. I'm not saying I want him lynched, but its a good place to store my vote.

[Seacore]

There are currently 25 players
1 Will die to end the day
Leaving us with 24 for your plan.

Scum and Murderers do not like your plan (Well, murderers like the plan, but not the eventual result)
My prediction is that 2 people will die tonight. One murderer will get through and the scum will succeed.

This leaves us with 22 moving into day 2. But which two?
I think this is a hole in your plan.

Even if it isn't, I'm on Sly's side (who I still think is scummy). I won't partake in this kind of game break.

[Seacore]

Yeah, the setup provides everybody with an opportunity to become murderers, while explaining the non-psychopathy insanity. Then all they need to do is write "twitch" in each voting post, and pretend that that was the insanity they took instead of psychopathy.
Then you have a bunch of people who don't want this to work

[Seacore]

I disagree with your definition of playing to win the game.

I'm an investigator who considered aiming at being a murderer from N0. If I had made that choice (which I didn't) I would consider the Murderer win condition to be mine.

I also disagree that your plan makes it harder for murderers to win. I think it makes it very easy for a murderer to win.

[Seacore]

Also, I don't see how your plan guarantees us a win of the game.

Rather than removing most mafia aspects of the game and giving us a good chance of winning.

Won't cultists simply fetish every time investigators stalk, and Ritual in the place of a murder?

oppose

[Seacore]

Yes, but you're giving us a % chance of winning rather then a chance of winning based on our skills.

If Adel dies her "special tells" go with her.

Also the night kills screw it up.

Person A is told to stalk Person B, but cultists or a muderer kill Person B instead. Now Person A is unverafiable for another night.

[Seacore]

I think it's time Adel explained it better.

From what it seems to me, it means that actual scum hunting lynch discussions are to replaced by randomly orchestrated stalk/murder combos, that will very likely (but not certainly) remove all but one cultist from the game (the remaining cultist will be able to fetish/ritual in replacement of stalk/murder).

[Seacore]

ah, so it brings us to lylo without any scum hunting for days

excellent plan

[Seacore]

I've been in other games and discussed "breaking" the game.

Often I'm for it. If there's a way to twist out an advantage for the town, then that's great.

In this case, however, it seemed to be substituting a mathematical formula in the place of scum hunting, from Day 1, to provide us with a good chance of winning.

Oh hey look, I've got some dice on my desk, if I get a 2 or higher, I win.. yay! I won!
That was fun

Now I'm ready to play mafia

[Seacore]

My issue is that you are removing scum hunting from the game and replacing it with maths

We'll get to day 4 and just have a regular game of mafia in which there has been no scum hunting.

Plus, it's the prisoner's dilemma, sure it's in people's be interest to not go murderer, but some will, because they want, what the consider to be a better victory.

[Seacore]

Fine, go ahead. I don't have the energy to keep up with pages upon pages.

I don't like the plan, but I was always planning to go investigator. I don't think it'll work, but I'll follow it to the T.

[Seacore]

Mod, I'm really really sorry Percy. I really wanted to play in this game, but the combination of post content, a new, busier position at work (which is where I do the majority of my playing, and the fact that this game went in an unenjoyable direction for me...

Request for replacement

Again, sorry

[Seacore]

The above rings somewhat false for me for a certain reason.

(Seacore iso read.)

I skimmed his ISO what specific things brought you to that conclusion?

Just to add to this conversation. I'm very apologetic because I know Percy in real life, and I'm sorry that I can't be part of a game he worked so hard on. Posting this because I don't want my replacement to be hit by your paranoia