Pick Your Power II - Looks like the wine is gone (SCUM WIN)

[bouncy.bouncy]

lol

vote Fate

[bouncy.bouncy]

vote Fate

sorry mod I forgot

[bouncy.bouncy]

Um, Hoopla, maybe I missed something you posted, but why would scum try to spread their numbers? If they pick the same numbers, they aren't automatically roleless. All they need to do is coordinate which

roles

to pick.

[bouncy.bouncy]

I voted for you because you said something that I don't think any townie with a brain would say.

I wasn't going off of Hoopla. I didn't even read anything she posted until like an hour ago.

[bouncy.bouncy]

slippery slop of wifom.

Are you saying my question is WIFOM? My post wasn't just a rhetorical "why would mafia do that?"; it was attached to the idea that

I believed

"doing that" would have absolutely

zero

strategic value for the mafia. As far as I know, WIFOM is only in play when both sides of the argument have some strategic value for the mafia. I genuinely saw no reason for why mafia would want to pick different numbers.

HOWEVER, I didn't think the scenarios through before I posted that. My theory was wrong and Hoopla's was right. So I'm not going to make that argument anymore.

ORL what was it that fate said that no townie would say?

"Hmmm... Any scum want to claim and tell us?"

[bouncy.bouncy]

My theory was wrong and Hoopla's was right.

edit: regarding whether there is strategic value for the mafia to pick different numbers.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy bouncy should post too, it's been a while. I'm missing that guy (stop lurkan)

I'm not much of a D1 poster. What do you want me to comment on?

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy you were nommed for a scummy for replacing into a game day 1 before, admittedly near the end, but you certainly had a nice big post for the 15 or so pages of that game, how come you've given us nothing this game. Like nothing at all. 6/7 posts and they've all been worthless.

Yeah I am pretty much worthless D1. I've been reading but I've never seen scum lynched D1 so I don't post much unless something seems wrong (my Fate vote) or somebody makes a really good case. I could try to explain my usual posting strategy to you a little better but idk if that would do anything for anybody.

I made a "big" post on D1 of my newbie game because I was scum and I was setting up the bus that I eventually carried out through the remainder of the game. Most of the stuff I put in that post was bullshit that I passed off as scumhunting.

[bouncy.bouncy]

cool story
now vote fifi

cool post
now vote cobalt please

Unvote Cobalt

Vote Fefi

sorry -.- like the 5th time this happens last 2 days

Cobalt and fifi are distancing, with fifi bandwagoning. I don't see why else fifi would beg for Cobalt to be lynched and then suddenly switch her vote to the person who now has the most votes

unvote Fate
vote The1fif

[bouncy.bouncy]

vote The1fifi

same reasons as yesterday followed up with this BS excuse for voting for me

Ummm, of course we were not distancing. I rather be suspicious of who implied that
....
Vote bouncy

[bouncy.bouncy]

He was nom'ed for a scummy which means there should be more input from this person.

As I said before, I was scum that game. I'm town so I have no manipulative input to share this game, fortunately for us, thus you people saying stuff like that is stupid.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Is bouncy seriously arguing that he only posts content when he's scum, so we should think he's town because he's not doing so?

No, I'm arguing that you shouldn't use a scum play Scummy nomination as some sort of standard for my town play. Go ahead and use your general town play standards as much as you want as a standard for my town play.

I know that my lack of posting is bad for us, but I don't know how else to play because I naturally give people the benefit of the doubt early.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Claim or die more like it.

Role cop

Go ahead and hammer me if it helps the town, my role is pretty much useless for town with the PYP mechanic and I only picked it because I didn't want the mafia to have it.

Should I post my result from last night? Idk if that would help the town or the mafia.

[bouncy.bouncy]

I investigated RayFrost and it was a random choice because nobody had claimed

bouncy: I don't see how you can just glide by in this game without a POV. It's not difficult to read people's post and go by what you believe scum would do/say and post from that.

I have been scumhunting, just not with the intensity that you have. Anyways, I will undoubtedly pick up the pace as the game goes on and night actions become a factor in discussion and there are less people to deal with. I just have trouble getting started.

[bouncy.bouncy]

EBWOP: bouncy, what do you mean when you say random?

random.org random

@Bouncy: Wouldn't it make more sense to target one of the top roles? Maybe you could have dound out the cop/vig, or something similar, and be able to unmask fake claims, since cop/vig are common claims when under pressure.

Could you explain your reasoning a little better? If it's supposedly common knowledge that cop/vig go to the top picks, why would a lower pick claim them?

Anyways, I really had no idea what a good investigation strategy should be, except verifying claims that have already happened.

Bullshit.

Your vote stays on me all day, and you don't even investigate me? If you thought I was scum, wouldn't you want to see if I had a scum role to back it up?

I don't suspect you anymore for that "what townies would say" stuff. I know this sounds awful, but when I read your quote later, I didn't see what was so bad about it--I honestly can't explain how I thought it was scummy. And I unvoted you, as you can see.

You also ADMIT that your role is next to useless in PYP. Why the hell did you choose it with #3 slot?

Didn't you read the rest of that post? I wanted to stop scum from taking it.@Bouncy: Do you think telling us Ray's role will help town or scum? Surely a player as great as you can figure that one out, or are you just going to give Ray the benefit of the doubt?[/quote]I don't know whether it will help town or scum. How about you show me logically who it will benefit so that you can make me look like a moron?

@ Everybody: give me an answer, am I revealing RayFrost's role or not?

[bouncy.bouncy]

Sorry, end of that post should be this:

Didn't you read the rest of that post? I wanted to stop scum from taking it.

@Bouncy: Do you think telling us Ray's role will help town or scum? Surely a player as great as you can figure that one out, or are you just going to give Ray the benefit of the doubt?

I don't know whether it will help town or scum. How about you show me logically who it will benefit so that you can make me look like a moron?

@ Everybody: give me an answer, am I revealing RayFrost's role or not?

[bouncy.bouncy]

Where did you come up with 2b? Are you suggesting that I might want to lie about RayFrost's role? Then what's the point of me saying anything in the first place?

[bouncy.bouncy]

Would anyone, with any sane mind, in

this

game of mafia, where the bottom picks on the draft list have a considerable less chance of having a role than others, investigate their target at random?

Um okay, I guess I'm either an insane scum or an insane townie.

But really, you're dumb if you think getting a Vanilla result from an investigation is a waste.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Bouncy.Bouncy

- 8 - Fate, wolframnhart, RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Faraday, Farside, Rayfrost, The1fifi - (L-2)

Pomegranate

- 2 - Socrates, Porkens - (L-8)

Rayfrost

- 1 - Hoopla - (L-9)

The1fifi

- 1 - Bouncy.Bouncy - (L-9)

wolframnhart

- 2 - Jack, Ellibereth - (L-8)

Players not voting: curiouskarmadog, Devotress, DocPotter, Pomegranate, TonyMontana

bouncy, claim your result.

unless you are claiming you got VT on me?

Tracker

[bouncy.bouncy]

1. Oh ok, I know X player is vanilla. Oh look, the rare situation in which they claimed and I'm still alive has occurred. He's fakeclaiming! He's a vanilla!

2. Hm I investigated a Cop/Tracker/Watcher, and they are pushing for X's lynch. I think I'll follow on with my own reasoning, since I know that person's role

3. Hm I investigated a Vig and town has died for the past three nights, I wonder if should claim what I know to get them lynched?

Which situations are more valuable, bouncy?

As for 2. maybe that person is scum, so why would I follow them?
As for 3. maybe they are town and guessed wrong for the past three nights.

Anyways I've never played PYP before, I've never been Cop before, and I've never read a Role Cop strategy guide. So maybe you can understand me not knowing exactly what to do D1.

[bouncy.bouncy]

1. Oh ok, I know X player is vanilla. Oh look, the rare situation in which they claimed and I'm still alive has occurred. He's fakeclaiming! He's a vanilla!

2. Hm I investigated a Cop/Tracker/Watcher, and they are pushing for X's lynch. I think I'll follow on with my own reasoning, since I know that person's role

3. Hm I investigated a Vig and town has died for the past three nights, I wonder if should claim what I know to get them lynched?

Which situations are more valuable, bouncy?

As for 2. maybe that person is scum, so why would I follow them?
As for 3. maybe they are town and guessed wrong for the past three nights.

Anyways I've never played PYP before, I've never been Cop before, and I've never read a Role Cop strategy guide. So maybe you can understand me not knowing exactly what to do D1, D2, D3, or any other day.

fixed.

No. With night actions and roleclaims come legitimate reasons to investigate people.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy did indeed unvote fate but voted for 1fif. So why not check fif?

Why check fifi?

[bouncy.bouncy]

2. If you follow a cop onto a lynch, and the person flips incorrectly? I wonder what you infer?

Cop, yeah, but tracker or watcher? Maybe they caught somebody doing the wrong thing.

3. If a vig has been bad at guessing, are they still a pro-town force? Shouldn't one inform town who the bad vig is so town can direct the kills?

We don't need to know who the vig is to be able to direct them.

You're #3,

PICK

a role you know how to play, or one that requires no playing at all (Bulletproof, etc.)

Point taken, but I still think it's a benefit to deny the mafia the role and I still think I will/would've made up for not being a genius N1 with my play afterwards.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Me saying something "no townie would ever say" is

not

a legitimate reason to investigate me?

Same goes for your f1f1 vote (which farside pointed out, I had forgotten about that)

First of all, I really fucked up what you said. I was convinced that you were scum and not just suspicious.

As for investigating people I suspect: why? I'm not a regular Cop; I'm a Role Cop.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy did indeed unvote fate but voted for 1fif. So why not check fif?

Why check fifi?

Why do random.org?
At least it's someone you have some suspicion on. Not some random oh look who I just happened to pick reason.

Once again, tell me WHY knowing the role of somebody I suspect matters any more than knowing the role of a random person. Maybe I'm just a retard, but I don't understand why I should start with people I suspect.

[bouncy.bouncy]

And the whole asking "why" back and forth just proves my point.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy if you were allowed to live, who would you investigate and why?

Anybody who claims D2.
Failing that, anybody who hints at a role D2.
Failing that, Socrates, now that you have explained the cop possibility.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Hey Ray, why don't you tell me why since nobody else will?

[bouncy.bouncy]

YOU ROLECOP YOUR SCUM SUSPECTS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO LIE ABOUT THEIR ROLE.

That is all.

Why are they going to lie about their role? The only people I would expect to lie about their role are scum who get to L-1 or scum who suddenly decide to speak up and manipulate the town. And my personal suspicion isn't going to cause either of those situations, is it?

[bouncy.bouncy]

checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

For the third time, could you tell me why this is a problem?

And if you're going to say the same thing as Socrates, read my reply to him.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Checking a player even as a role cop should be someone you think is scum. They could lie about their role or if someone claims they were RB'ed or someone says they tracked another player instead of having the player who is the actual tracker claim you know who that player actually is and to say that scum doesn't like is a fallacy. With a game that has a probability of some roles not existing it is easy to fake claim a role.

All of this is completely independent of how scummy I think the player is.

[bouncy.bouncy]

@bouncy: Seeing my point about how best to use that ability don't you think it's best to now look into a player you think may be scum so you can trap them later and stop with the "random" shit. I don't quiet believe you tbh but it's possible you are just a VI.

Did you not read my response to you?

You told me the benefits of investigating somebody. You did not tell me how the benefits of investigating somebody whom I think is scum outweigh the benefits of investigating somebody whom I do not think is scum.

I still do not see how investigating a player whom I think is scum is any better than investigating a random player. Try spending a little more time explaining it to me logically since I'm such an idiot and I need logic to understand any criticism in this game.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Seriously why would you think investigating random helps you at all?

Seriously why would you think investigating people I think are scum helps me at all?

I just explained what scum could/may do in my post and what you just ignored it or something?

Um no, I read that. I would freaking love to investigate people who ARE scum.

What I don't understand, however, is how I am more likely to investigate people who ARE scum if I investigate people who I THINK are scum.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Hey fifi why don't you help farside answer me instead of trying to end the day too soon

[bouncy.bouncy]

Oh, and if the answer is so obvious it shouldn't take long to type out.

[bouncy.bouncy]

WHY WOULD YOU RANDOM INVESTIGATE A PLAYER! WHAT WOULD BE THE FUCKING POINT IN DOING THAT!?

As I said before, you asking "why" instead of answering "because..." just proves me right.

If you suggest that I should pick who to investigate based on certain criteria, there should be a

reason

for using those criteria. If you can give no

reason

, then your suggestion is derived

arbitrarily

and there is no "FUCKING POINT IN DOING THAT" either.

Thus we have two choices, both of which there is no "FUCKING POINT IN DOING". So you can't tell me that it is better to choose one over the other.

[bouncy.bouncy]

If you suspect someone is scum, then you should gather every info you can on that person. So, if they claim to be cop, but you investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, you have a proof that they are lying.

I should gather every info you can on

every

person. If

anybody

claims to be cop, but I investigated them and found out that they are for example vanilla, I have a proof that they are lying.

I realize now that the fact is that I am the one thinking instead of you.

[bouncy.bouncy]

edit: every info I can*

[bouncy.bouncy]

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

God, you people are always so sure of your scumhunting skills. Your argument destroys the exact reason that you play mafia.

If somebody is so fucking obviously scum, why the hell would I waste my investigation on them?

[bouncy.bouncy]

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

God, you people are always so sure of your scumhunting skills. Your argument destroys the exact reason that you play mafia.

If somebody is so fucking obviously scum, why the hell would I waste my investigation on them?

no one said obvious scum! don't you even have a suspect? serisously.. After a whole day you had no one tou suspected? Don't bullshit me. You are scum playing the "i dont know any better" thing.

I had suspects. Fate and then you. What do I get out of investigating you

that I don't get out of investigating somebody else???

[bouncy.bouncy]

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

God, you people are always so sure of your scumhunting skills. Your argument destroys the exact reason that you play mafia.

If somebody is so fucking obviously scum, why the hell would I waste my investigation on them?

no one said obvious scum! don't you even have a suspect? serisously.. After a whole day you had no one tou suspected? Don't bullshit me. You are scum playing the "i dont know any better" thing.

I had suspects. Fate and then you. What do I get out of investigating you

that I don't get out of investigating somebody else???

So, if they claim to be cop, but you investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, you have a proof that they are lying.

Did you miss what I italicized?

If I investigate somebody I don't suspect, and then they claim to be cop, but I investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, I have a proof that they are lying.

No difference. No reason to investigate somebody I think is scum instead of somebody I don't think is scum because both are equally likely to fakeclaim.

[bouncy.bouncy]

You want to so called "random" investigate.

Before somebody explained the reason to investigate the top draft picks, I wanted to random investigate N1 if nobody claimed D1.

Not make any scum hunting known,

I've done it. It's been minimal, but it's something and that's how I usually play.

and some how believe this is all town motivated and not scum motivated?

No. I said a long time ago that you could hammer me if it helps the town. I understand that some might think it's scummy and I've guessed wrong myself many times before.

Plus you think that random is better

No, I don't. I think random is

not worse

. I think random did as much good for me/us as your method would have.

for some inane reason that you have yet to explained

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO EXPLAIN. YOU ARE ON THE OFFENSIVE, SO YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN. I AM ARGUING THAT NEITHER IS BETTER AND BY DEFAULT, NEITHER IS BETTER. YOU NEED TO GIVE ME A SOLID REASON THAT YOURS IS BETTER IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE TRUE THAT YOURS IS BETTER.

That is where your logic fails.

[bouncy.bouncy]

I explained why having someone you think is scum and why to look at those who you believe to be scum is better.

You explained why it's good to investigate somebody who is scum, not why it's better to investigate somebody who I think is scum than to investigate somebody who I don't think is scum.

I even explain why scum would want to look at someone that isn't scum (obviously it wouldn't be them) and what the bennift to scum are for this.

That's great. Just assume that I'm town for now for the sake of me understanding your argument.

I mean really what bennift does town get for you knowing someone's role?

Woah, now, are you saying you don't want me to investigate anybody at all?

[bouncy.bouncy]

All the posts going back and forth are just filler pages of your horrible, horrible logic.

No, my error was not realizing that I should investigate the people with top draft picks. The back and forth stuff is my good logic and other people's horrible logic.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Fate was most entertaining to watch after I was dead. Hitting scum right and left and then getting totally fooled on a few occasions.

Also, this was great:

Bouncy if you're still reading, NOW do you see why you should've role coped Socrates?

-_-'

[bouncy.bouncy]

Bouncy: A role investigation on Jack would've ended it, on Socrates it would have let us know for sure he wasn't the vig, etc. Please, please don't do random.org next time.

You still want to argue this?

First, you don't know that scum would've had the same claims if I hadn't claimed.

Second,
An investigation on YOU would've confirmed Socrates as scum after he claimed bomb.
An investigation on FARADAY would've outed him.
An investigation on FIFI would've outed her and Jack.
An investigation on STRANGER would've eliminated him from vig.

I've already admitted that I was wrong about not investigating the top picks, but I had no other reason on D1/N1 to investigate any of the 6 people on our combined list above.