Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I love Kairyuu! (seriously, that guy is a good lover) (reference to finished games)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68#2079068Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Healthy competition between universes is good? JC, capitalism in mafia games, and it rings no alarm with anyone.
Seriously, what you are thinking about will do no good. Teleporters are no vigs. Esspecially since both towns are probably about equal in strenght, the teleportation is unlikely to get all the mafia out of one universe into the other without the other universe sending them back.
Randomly, the teleportation will have very little effect. We send and they send, and both towns will not benefit. Screwing them over will just screw us over too. Because we will be screwed: using this tactic it forces the towns to reread the other universe, it kills arguments based on scum-interactions, and the new player coming into this universe is forced to reread the whole game. A lot of information is lost, and all the mechanic does is confuse.
Plum is right: scumhunting will win the game. Town, by definition, wins by helping each other, playing together. In this game this is no different, even across universes. Please someone quote this in the other universe.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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the strategy I propose: (for clarity)
no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention.
Further, no universe would have to worry about the amount of scum and scumteams.
The teleporter=vig strategy only works during endgame, where it is the last action made (winning or losing the game afterwards).Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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extra information supporting this strategy:
if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I know that this way, both universes will try to mess up the other universe, clearly not understanding that that universe will do the same back! This is why I wanted my post quoted on the other side: it is senseless to shove scummy players between the universes, it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town.farside22 wrote:myko: The problem we are running across is the other universe (now known as U2....or OU) wants to send people they feel are scum in our direction. Their talks are using the teleportor to send scummy people our way. If we don't do the same in return we will have to still read the other game anyways and be bomard by people that were scummy in OU.
The problem you name could be solved by teleporting the player they sent back to them.
Shouldn't you be fighting scum, in stead of another universe? And I linked Kairyuus post that gives us a confirmed player: that is exploiting the mechanic in a town way. But if we let too many players switch universe, things might get very confusing, do we agree?Fishythefish wrote:mykonian's proposed strategy is very antitown.
If the other town teleports people over here, and we only teleport people back reactively, we're going to end up with more scum/scummy players than them, and we are going to lose.
Pulling confirmed innos from the other universe gives us confirmed innos.
So, unilaterally saying we aren't going to use the mechanic is going to screw us over. Even if we got the other town to agree not to teleport, they wouldn't have any incentive not to break the deal. Even if we trusted them not to teleport as well, both towns are losing the confirmed innos that pulling gives us.
As for "the mod thinks the mechanic will hurt us", I think that the average game's PRs make the game easier for the town than a mountainous setup.
I totally agree that scumhunting is the way to win the game. I think that the best way we can exploit the mechanic is to ignore it during the day (at least for now). For our teleportation strategy, I've already given my thoughts. On teleporting (as opposed to pulling) nights, the teleporter may well often want to send back whoever the OU sent us.
vote: FlareonageandFoS: Plumfor buddying with an entire universe.
For the start of the game, could everybody answer this question:
what are your scumtells, when you are scum?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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There is no point to the role. It is not a role that gives an advantage like the cop or the vig. This is because there is one on the other side too. This mechanic is most likely going to mess with our heads, and we don't want that. So I argued not to use them, but I don't think people are going to listen .farside22 wrote:What do you feel would be the point of having a town teleportor? Should they use their ability? Why or why not?
And yes, prisoners dillema, with the difference that by sending them back, we can neutralize their action.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Yay, cross kills! How often do those happen during the start of the game, and is the chance that mafia shoots each other worth the confusion? Is it worth the risk they may shoot an extra towny in this universe, etc?evilsnail wrote:mykonian, your reasoning doesn't take into account the fact that exchanging scum with Universe 2 creates the possibility of a mafia cross-kill. This means that there is a real advantage to teleporting, assuming that the exchanges roughly even out otherwise.
The only real question, I think, is whether we direct the teleport or leave it up to teleporter.
And what PR is being directed from the start of the game? May I remember you that scum could influence it too then, for their own use? The teleporter is 100% town, lets keep the teleportation 100% town too.
Now, I wouldn't mind if some people answered my question I posted earlier:
what are your scumtells when you are scum?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Confirmed townies are cool. So yes, Kai already knows he is brilliant, I just confirm it.Nicodemus wrote:@Mykonian in U1: since you're against all teleporting between universes, how do you feel about the kairyuu's plan to have the teleporters claim? Is this beneficial to town, and to both universes?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Everything in blue is not related to hunting scum, and can be skipped, if you are short on time.
Although I find your next post nice (you agree with me, finally, someone!), this one just gives me the creeps. If you would be town, there would be nothing to worry about. You could just tell your scumtells. Because acting antitown as towny to protect your scumplay is not done, and the way I know you, you also wouldn't lurk or do other scummy things to protect your scumplay. Then we get a series of scumtells that I know you would avoid if possible (jumping on a wagon with a "me too") and that you are often bussing seems to be a save thing to say as scum. Further, you keep it very general. I can't see someone who loves the game this much doing this as town.farside22 wrote:
Oh come on this question sucks why should I share my scum tells to hurt me in other games?what are your scumtells when you are scum?
I can already hear the people ready to lynch me for the above but telling people your scum tells does hurt you for other games.
idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game. I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of. I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go. I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on.
Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you.FoS Farside. But pluspoints for actually answering the question as first player.
evilsnail wrote:
If they shoot an extra townie in one universe, they shoot no townie in the other universe. So, on average, this balances out. A cross-kill, however, is unambiguously good for town.mykonian wrote:Yay, cross kills! How often do those happen during the start of the game, and is the chance that mafia shoots each other worth the confusion? Is it worth the risk they may shoot an extra towny in this universe, etc?confusion isn't. Is it worth it?
Well yeah, but the same is true of a lynch. I mean, probably leaving up to the teleporter is the way to go, since having to vote for it would be a hassle. But, in principle, it would buy us a lot of info.mykonian wrote:And what PR is being directed from the start of the game? May I remember you that scum could influence it too then, for their own use? The teleporter is 100% town, lets keep the teleportation 100% town too.You are a person to direct a vig, or a cop? didn't think so. This is because roles function better when not influenced, and when scum can not anticipate to them.
Gayle's answer is pretty null (sorry, didn't know you were a newby), and I like Fishy's post. Though I didn't ask him how he was as town. Because towntells are completely not interesting, and posting them is an ideal hiding place as scum.
Raskol wrote:
I don't think we should expect cooperative agreements to be broken at all. That might be true if we were both static, monolithic organizations, but we aren't. We're a collection of individuals that may or may not remain on the side of the dimensional rift we're currently on.Fishythefish wrote:On night actions, there is no sensible agreement we can come to - at some point it will be unilaterally broken.
Any townie teleporter that uses their actions to fuck over the other universe faces the very real possibility that they will be pulled over to the universe they just fucked over and have to live in their own mess. It seems that our best bet as individuals is to make sure that both towns do really well.
So for both towns, I think, self-interest will help us reach a cooperative solution, not hinder us. Whatever strategy we end up using, we should make sure it ends up being a net gain for both towns as a whole.
Teleporting scummy players to the other universe is a zero sum game, imo, that we should not be playing. A plan like Kairyuu's makes sense, I think, in that it gives both towns a slight advantage.Vote raskolYou are basically repeating me, with better words. Seriously, the time you put in your first sentence could have been used to answer my question, and if you had read the thread, you would have noticed 3 players answered it by now. Further, hiding behind Kai is always easy. This was some useless strategy-talk-hiding. And I use that word because I don't want to say active lurking this early in the game.
Gayle wrote:There is really nothing I can say to defend myself from "Finding the strategy discussion irritating is scummy". I maintain that it is pointless to continue the strategy discussion.While it is indeed not very usefull to find scum, since they can talk with it just as easily, it is important to think about the setup you are playing in. I hope we agree that it is important to find the best strategy for the town first, and then lynch?
Lets state the obvious thing, please, making sure that it comes fromRaskol wrote:I don't think you get whatI'msaying, fish. I'm saying that, from the very beginning, it's in everyone's interests to make sure that both universes are really good places to be.yourposts.
By post 147, Flareonage is seriously looking scummy, Pops is doing a great, though a little overaggressive job. I guess that is playstyle.
And far too many people are hiding behind Kairyuu. (now gayle and evilsnail)
And by post 153 pops is disappointing, again the lets kill the other side view on the game. Seriously, with the masons, 12-3 can be done. 4 mislynches! Lets not waste too much time on the mechanic and just hunt scum!
There are still a lot of players who I would like to tell their scumtells
And as a conclusion: Zoraster, you are seriously disappointing as a mod. Seriously, any strategy that comes up should have been thought about BEFORE the game was made. Changing rules during the game is not the way to go.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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QFT. DGB thinks, or acts like, she thinks it is about the methods she uses for finding scum. Pomegranate-scum used this avoidance too (only time I have seen the question in action before)evilsnail wrote:
This post feels... off. As farside22 points out, sharing scum tells is not anti-town. Even if it did help scum in some way, it also helps the town find scum.DrippingGoofball wrote:Wut?
Someone is asking what my scumtells are (along with everyone else's?)
No way. Why should I tell scum what they should avoid doing?
FOS: DGB
@DGB: for clarity, I was asking what would be the points that would get you caught as scum.
@Evilsnail: I am not going to answer my own question if nobody wants the answer.
It has been some time that I was scum. During my games a scum I now know I was easy to catch, but people haven't allways found out how. I used to fakeclaim pretty well, but exactly the care with which breadcrumbs were placed showed that I was scum. Also, the use of PBPA to attack someone was something I used to reduce pressure on myself, and sadly, with some succes. Although people have never caught this, I used to manipulate peoples stances gradually, which resulted in some interesting discussions The reason people went after me mostly was staying of the lynch-bandwagon, and sometimes arguing against it. But I have seen people lynch me for that regardless of my role
@Gayle: Against flareonage: He answers a question asked from Gayle, with the answer that the teleporter has to claim. Then, two minutes later he says he was wrong because the others would steal him!
Seriously, fla hasn't read the thread, read the rules, in general, he didn't care! There will be a new teleporter here (although Zor changed the rules), and the teleporter will be a confirmed towny there. On that moment the reason not to claim was to make a system work.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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pops, I have played one game with Flare where he feigned ignorance as scum. I rather have him trying to understand the game then hiding behind it.
Because I still like my vote on Rhinox, I won't vote DGB. But she is a very good second. Avoiding the 2/3 times. That must be a record. Now seen multiple answers, Farside is at least open about her motives (good).Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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If it is so stupid you could of course give an answer. You have not missed it, and even want to make a point of it, but you are too lazy to simply answer it?Raskol wrote:I agree with DGB that mykonian's question is pointless and stupid. The sheer naivete it displays in him is townish, though, I think.
and you go on copying other peoples opinions, while I try to have scum answer a question they probably aren't very confortable with. I don't know about you, but I want scum to be as unconfortable as possible. I think you know, since you seem to have a certain hate for the question.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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what nonsense is it that scum wants to answer the question how they could be caught? If they don't want to answer it, they are forced to lie.
Again, I am not asking how people catch scum, I am asking how scum is caught. So it is not like scum can predict how you are searching. They can try to mask their own scumtells: but lets be honest, scum does that anyway. But the information it gives how people tell their scumtells is something we can use.
Wait, second question. Why are you arguing for people not to answer a question?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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wait, we are at the start of the game, I have asked a question, you are saying you caught scum by it, but it is useless?
unvote vote DGBIf you have a mindset where catching scum is pointless, you are scum. I am certain this was a major scumslip.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Defensive theory in blue.
The question asks from everyone, and mostly from scum to list the tells they are concious about. Scum that is concious about certain tells is going to avoid them anyway, since he knows about them. Making them public, however, just increases the odds. Now everybody knows about them.
Plum stated that scum could work very long on making the perfect post. I believe that such differences can be read when analyzing the post, in any way, it is a difference. It may be a small one, but it could be a starting point for a case against that scum-player.
Answering the question for town has no negative consequenses for this game. Like some people have brought up, it could be that the same thing that happens to scum in this game could follow you to later games (confirming that this would generally hurt scum). Sorry about that, but if you have tells that you are concious about, it might be time to change your scumplay, and it has always been wrong to protect your scumplay as town.
So really, arguing that this question is antitown, like DGB tried to do, even after saying she caught scum with it is scummy. So is avoiding the question.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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popsofctown wrote:I think you're hairsplitting the semantics. She thinks the question is dumb, and no one would answer it. But since someone did, she thinks that person is scummy. It's like saying "Who wants a massclaim" at the beginning of a newbie is a dumb question, because it is, but if someon was idiotic enough to answer the question you'd have caught scum.which is why I try to argue that the question is not dumb. And on that moment, more then 3 people had already answered, starting with farside who DGB had in her townlist. Seriously, why are you defending her?
What is wrong with WIFOM? Using it as an excuse not to answer a question or screaming WIFOM after someone makes an accusation are probably the worst use for it. If people for once took the time to analyze what it actually means...DrippingGoofball wrote:
I didn't say it was anti-town, I said (and I paraphrase and embellish liberally here) that it was a "time-wasting pit of stirred WIFOM."mykonian wrote:So really, arguing that this question is antitown, like DGB tried to do, even after saying she caught scum with it is scummy. So is avoiding the question.
Which doesn't mean that scum didn't take the time to apply themselves answering the question and should be lynched for their misguided effort.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Added to this that this post by raskol was made just after he was accused of bringing little new, this is seriously scummy. Attacking fishy on something that you just found (but couldn't quote?) and which already sounds meh without a quote...Fishythefish wrote:
Which point of mine are you referring to here?Raskol wrote:vote: Fish
For attacking Gayle on something I think makes Gayle more likely to be town than scum, but which might look like fuel for an easy bandwagon.
This is just trying to look town by "investigating" something new.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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It is somewhere in MD/GD. Yes he is, but there is chance most of us don't know his main, it was quite old, I though. Before my time.popsofctown wrote:"I've always found her very hard to read"? since January 23rd?
You are such an alt.
@Elvis: yes. I know. But what about DGB? I'll wait for the votecount, if you don't mind.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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nope, not mad about that, because frankly, you only said it was pointless, but never argued the theory behind this statement (this is not an invitation, to me you have made your point clear that you are not going to answer it for whatever reason)Raskol wrote:mykonian---you sure you're not just mad I pointed out how dumb your question was?
If you really do think your point is a good one (frankly I'd think more of you if you were to admit you're just rage-voting but w/e) then let me ask you how switching my vote this early in the game is a scumtell. Care to enlighten me?
To the point, because the above is only an introduction to your play that you try to hide, somebody (I forgot who) called you on not having placed a vote. Suddenly you vote Fishy for a wishy-washy point, without quote. I find you suspicious for this, and post that. Elvis agrees, and you have completely missed that point seen the above post where you strawman me by saying the question is the only post of the case.
But suddenly, without ever mentioning Fishy and your "case" on him, you switch for another interesting target, this time on the accusation that Elvis said she thinks DGB scum, but then again some points are in DGB's favor. That seems like analysis to me, but you vote her for it.
It is not placing multiple votes, it is making bad cases, and avoiding responsibility as soon as people post they were bad (as with your fishy case)Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Raskol wrote:
You're either stupid, lazy, or both if you can't figure out what I was attacking fishy over.mykonian wrote:To the point, because the above is only an introduction to your play that you try to hide, somebody (I forgot who) called you on not having placed a vote. Suddenly you vote Fishy for a wishy-washy point, without quote. I find you suspicious for this, and post that. Elvis agrees, and you have completely missed that point seen the above post where you strawman me by saying the question is the only post of the case.
But suddenly, without ever mentioning Fishy and your "case" on him, you switch for another interesting target, this time on the accusation that Elvis said she thinks DGB scum, but then again some points are in DGB's favor. That seems like analysis to me, but you vote her for it.
It is not placing multiple votes, it is making bad cases, and avoiding responsibility as soon as people post they were bad (as with your fishy case)
I specifically stated my reasons in my post voting for fishy, and when he asked what I meant I pointed it out before I switched my vote. I'm not backing off, I still find fishy scummy. I just find ek scummier and I put my vote where it does best.
And if you can seriously call ek's wafflefest about dgb 'analysis' then I guess I have a reference point for your standards.
I don't think you should be namecalling if this is your argument, dear Raskol. Am I wrong when I sayRaskol wrote:vote: Fish
For attacking Gayle on something I think makes Gayle more likely to be town than scum, but which might look like fuel for an easy bandwagon.youare the one lazy here? This is a wishy washy reason, without quote, and this with later apostnumberis everything you say about fishy.
Seriously, analyze this (stupid, pointless, rubbish) argument. Fishy attacked someone for something thatmightseem a good point, but actually, as you see it shows that someone is town.
Seriously, that is not a clear point, that is a (stupid, pointless, rubbish) attack.
And now your GREAT Elvis vote. Your next hideout. Someone names on the pro's and cons of a player and then it is a "wafflefest". Raskol, you are very good at using great insulting words, but what are they doing else but hiding you havenothing to say?. You are only changing your play because someone said you didn't do a thing but copying people, and you simply are not capable of making a good case here. You simply latch on to the first thing you can find, if this is someone unsure about another player, or fishy attacking someone for a point that might seem good but actually isn't.
Raskol, you are scum that has the problem that he can't find townies to attack savely.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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If you let away every scum that insults the players attacking him,popsofctown wrote:Raskol seems genuinely cranky in a townie way.but doesn't actually defend, you are making this game way too easy. It is site-meta that people showing emotion (be this aggression or anger) are towny. This is known, but easily abused.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Thank you very much.Rhinox wrote:
I don't have anymyko wrote:what are your scumtells, when you are scum?
If you can't handle WIFOM you are a terrible scumhunter. There is nothing only townies do because such an absolute towntell would be copied by scum, etc. WIFOM, whether you like it or not, is information.Screw your other games, does answering the question help or hurt this game? If it helps, answer it. If it doesn't, don't. Why did you answer the question? I personally don't see how this question helps this game at all. It creates lots of wifom later on.
I am sure I have made at least one lenghty post about this: please read it. It is probably in blue. Don't ask if the answer is already there.
How so? I don't think it does.evilsnail wrote:
This post feels... off. As farside22 points out, sharing scum tells is not anti-town. Even if it did help scum in some way, it also helps the town find scum.DrippingGoofball wrote:Wut?
Someone is asking what my scumtells are (along with everyone else's?)
No way. Why should I tell scum what they should avoid doing?
FOS: DGB
I am sorry rhinox, but if you hadn't CTRL-F'ed your name, you would have noticed I was on that moment voting Raskol. I have mixed your names up here. And as you can see, my raskol case hasn't been forgotten by me. The later accusation that I switched for DGB was indeed DGB's scumslip where she showed finding scum wasn't her primary interest. I hope this explains enough
lol not that I care that I have any votes on me, but what have I done or not done that makes you like your vote on me? I was V/LA until my first post in the game and I was just finally able to read the thread and catch up in this game as of this post. Check my activity across the site if you don't believe me and I believe you know I was just prodded in another game so....mykonian wrote:pops, I have played one game with Flare where he feigned ignorance as scum. I rather have him trying to understand the game then hiding behind it.
Because I still like my vote on Rhinox, I won't vote DGB. But she is a very good second. Avoiding the 2/3 times. That must be a record. Now seen multiple answers, Farside is at least open about her motives (good).
This makes the rest of the post somewhat awkward though, since there is some aggressive "we should lynch myko stuff" and calling me a hypocrit for not using previous cases while I return my vote to my previous suspect.
One question still remains. Why is 90% of Rhinox's catch up post about someone who he thought voted him, and not in a positive way?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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It was his most important argument. However, it is sadly based on a miscommunication. I have voted raskol, and after that claimed I was still votingFlareonage wrote:
I completely agree with Rhinox. Mykonian is just as guilty of what he is accusing Raskol of doing.mykonian wrote:I agreevote raskol
You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?
@Mykonian: Why did you ignore that point of Rhinox's argument? It seemed like the most important point to meRhinox. I never actually did. And I did answer that previously.
I made that mistake, but Rhinox, you are very aggressive on this point, I would expect people to check their cases. But you did CTRL-F your name, right? (not a tell, just confirming my way of thinking)
Rhinox wrote:
myko asked the question. I want to hear his answer.evilsnail wrote:
Dude, I answered this question in detail on the last page.Rhinox wrote:Tell me, how does knowing what everyone says is their scumtell going to help you find scum in this game?mykonian post 248 wrote:Defensive theory in blue.
The question asks from everyone, and mostly from scum to list the tells they are concious about. Scum that is concious about certain tells is going to avoid them anyway, since he knows about them. Making them public, however, just increases the odds. Now everybody knows about them.
Plum stated that scum could work very long on making the perfect post. I believe that such differences can be read when analyzing the post, in any way, it is a difference. It may be a small one, but it could be a starting point for a case against that scum-player.
Answering the question for town has no negative consequenses for this game. Like some people have brought up, it could be that the same thing that happens to scum in this game could follow you to later games (confirming that this would generally hurt scum). Sorry about that, but if you have tells that you are concious about, it might be time to change your scumplay, and it has always been wrong to protect your scumplay as town.
So really, arguing that this question is antitown, like DGB tried to do, even after saying she caught scum with it is scummy. So is avoiding the question.
On the question from Evilsnail why I didn't answer the question myself, I answered:Rhinox wrote:I also want to know why myko refused to provide an answer to his own question as well.
= explanation why I didn't give the answer before, and the answer because it was clear at least evilsnail wanted the answer. (posting something that nobody is going to read or use is filling the thread, so I waited for someone to ask me)mykonian post 176 wrote:@Evilsnail: I am not going to answer my own question if nobody wants the answer.
It has been some time that I was scum. During my games a scum I now know I was easy to catch, but people haven't allways found out how. I used to fakeclaim pretty well, but exactly the care with which breadcrumbs were placed showed that I was scum. Also, the use of PBPA to attack someone was something I used to reduce pressure on myself, and sadly, with some succes. Although people have never caught this, I used to manipulate peoples stances gradually, which resulted in some interesting discussions The reason people went after me mostly was staying of the lynch-bandwagon, and sometimes arguing against it. But I have seen people lynch me for that regardless of my role
Rhinox, lets put it in another way: I think you need another (re)read. Stop using me for it by asking questions that have already been asked. And if you want me to help you with your "reread", don't insult me.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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If you are obviously goingout of your wayto avoid it (how this is caught obviously depends on the tell), you basically answered your own question: you care too much about avoiding your scumtells (you don't have to worry about that as town), so in that way, it adds pressure to the scums play. They are forced also to stay away from their tells. Which makes scumplay harder (as "normal" scumhunting is still possible on scum, this just adds something extra), but town play stays just as easy. That is the benefit.
If you commit it later in the game: you are going to be questioned about this, maybe resulting in a vote. Here is makes discussion more factual (you did this, it may be a scumtell./ you did this, you say it is your scumtell (is more definite). This aids constructive discussion. (basically because the answer gives extra information)
conclusion: it gives information (how it is used is the players choice, like with any information), and adds pressure to the scum's play.
But seriously, how are you going to accuse anyone of being scum because they asked a question? Questions per definition give information. This question in particular had the intention to go from strategy talk to scumhunting, by asking about the information that is already there at the start of the game (the playstyles of the players).Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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RED: calling for a myko lynch, arguing for a myko lynch etc.
BLUE: stuff related to the question, which from this post is clear Rhinox dislikes, and is part of the argument against myko (lynch the person asking it)
90% is not so far off if you believe a lot of your question-related talk was showing how rubbish it is (and how the player that made it should be lynched)
Rhinox: what makes me so important to you that your post (to put it in a different way) is pretty much focused on me?Rhinox wrote:myko wrote:what are your scumtells, when you are scum?I don't have any
Screw your other games, does answering the question help or hurt this game? If it helps, answer it. If it doesn't, don't. Why did you answer the question?farside22 wrote:
Oh come on this question sucks why should I share my scum tells to hurt me in other games?what are your scumtells when you are scum?
I can already hear the people ready to lynch me for the above but telling people your scum tells does hurt you for other games.
idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game. I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of. I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go. I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on.
Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you.I personally don't see how this question helps this game at all. It creates lots of wifom later on.
Again, so why did you answer it?farside wrote:I don't read it that way at all. He is asking how you act as scum. Not everyone acts the same and people can use it as a reference instead of using the word meta argument.
I just hate it because I never like talking about my scum actions. Never. It's something I hold dear to my heart and don't want to share with the MS world (who do read games and look back on things to the nth degree) signs that I'm scum for later games.
evilsnail wrote:
This post feels... off. As farside22 points out, sharing scum tells is not anti-town. Even if it did help scum in some way, it also helps the town find scum.DrippingGoofball wrote:Wut?
Someone is asking what my scumtells are (along with everyone else's?)
No way. Why should I tell scum what they should avoid doing?
FOS: DGBHow so? I don't think it does.
lol not that I care that I have any votes on me, but what have I done or not done that makes you like your vote on me? I was V/LA until my first post in the game and I was just finally able to read the thread and catch up in this game as of this post. Check my activity across the site if you don't believe me and I believe you know I was just prodded in another game so....mykonian wrote:pops, I have played one game with Flare where he feigned ignorance as scum. I rather have him trying to understand the game then hiding behind it.
Because I still like my vote on Rhinox, I won't vote DGB. But she is a very good second. Avoiding the 2/3 times. That must be a record. Now seen multiple answers, Farside is at least open about her motives (good).
Then less than 24hours later you do switch your vote to DGB for what you call a major scumtell but meh... I think you were fencesitting on DGB before and using your vote on me as an excuse to not vote DGB then... so do you view DGB as a threat to scum or something and you want to try to lynch her?
DrippingGoofball wrote:You know who'd be eager to give a list of scumtells?
5KuMz
That's who.
We should lynch everyone that answered.This except lynch the person who asked the question first.
DrippingGoofball wrote:
I can say that when I'm town, I write in green text, but when I'm scum, I write in red text.farside22 wrote:How is it WIFOM?
So I'll make all my posts green.
Am I scum? The answer is WIFOM.thisthisthis!!
mykonian wrote:I agreevote raskol
You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?hypocrite. you seem to have very quickly and easily forgotten what you liked about your vote on me. you're even on to your second suspect since me before I even posted to give you a reason to dislike your vote.
vote mykofor everything I said in this post
If you didn't read the post, too bad, I don't feel like giving you a tl;dr right now. Caught up now and hopefully will be able to keep up.
TO BOTH UNI's: This might go without saying, but in an ideal world, shouldn't we be scum hunting in the OU as well? since we'll be getting some of their players at some point, good to know what we're getting ahead of time. Also, if we help the OU kill their scum, it means we're less likely to get stuck with them over here. Just a thought I'm certainly not leading the charge right nowSurrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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for once, he is right, Elvis. You are not helping. Esspecially it only shows again you focus on gayle-town bad wagon, raskol-scum good wagon. From this assumptions you reason, and this list is your conclusion: I think you don't have used enough input, and when you do have enough, cases on people function better.
We know DGB it is not the first time DGB is wacky. Why did you mention this?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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Note that I didn't call it scummy. I believed it to be antitown, but I never saw it this way.
DGB, wouldn't it be better to keep this quiet until scum attacks a player perceived towny, after which town reaction makes scum having a hard time talking himself out of it? This in stead of showing scum who they can attack?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Since there are multiple people talking about this. I honestly don't know why I typed town, could be because I was arguing it would make town lose, or just because I was tired. I have honestly no idea.CSL wrote:Wow, I'm not done with the 12th page yet, and I go to this page, and see that. That's one of the biggest slips I have seen in my life!
Vote: mykonian
But this isn't a scumslip, this is just an incorrect sentence. I can't see how this is a scumslip. The whole argument is to make both towns play strategically better. A scumslip would show I have no interest in making the town play better. But I do!
But I understand typo's where town and scum are exchanged look very bad, so I want this talked out before we go further. Since there are multiple people talking about this there are townies believing this is a scumslip and I don't see it. Could you explain to me what it is?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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damn. I see what you could see in that sentence.Fishythefish wrote:For me, it's very simple; it looks like your real win condition came into your head as you justified what the right move was, when you meant to type your supposed win condition.
But the whole warning was indeed to argue for the right move for town, so even if I was scum, I would have been arguing for town. The scum-wincondition is not related to it in any way (scum would benefit from confusion), so really, this was just a typo, seen the way it doesn't fit in the point I'm making.
But I guess I should read my own posts before posting to avoid this. Sorry.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I know it will be. Esspecially since slips are very strong evidence, it will be remembered. So every next argument against me will end with: and he had the slip.Fishythefish wrote:For me, it is and will remain a significant point against you,
Unfortunate is an understatement. People will now read every point as if I'm trying to manipulate them.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I didn't see how it could be percieved as a slip, sorry. I find it slightly amusing that you call you are framed, while I am making a slip in stead of a mistake.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Haha, I see you have your bases covered to make it look like what you decided to frame as a scumslip from me, is worse that your ownmykonian wrote:But this isn't a scumslip, this is just an incorrect sentence. I can't see how this is a scumslip. The whole argument is to make both towns play strategically better. A scumslip would show I have no interest in making the town play better. But I do!bona fidescumslip!
DIE SCUM
@Elvis. I am sure I have already typed this up multiple times, but here we go again.
Teleporting people makes the game confusing because the new player in this universe would have to read up the game. The universe would have to read the other universes game to learn the allignment of the player. Like the whole game has to be partially replaced on the start of day 2, if that makes it clearer. Let this happen over multiple nights and I forsee that the town either goes into massive lurking because they can't read everything, or they don't read it and still post, which will result in a lot of bad reads. I believe that the mechanic indeed doesn't help the town until endgame.
Esspecially the plans to use the vig as a sort of vig (sending the scum to the other universe), is bound to fail since they would do the same. Sure, we could win if we are more effective, leaving them with the rest of the scum. However, the same could happen to us, but more likely, since both towns are not that different, we would just mess up both games.
So again, why is it percieved to be antitown to argue for a 12-3 game with 2 confirmable roles? I have enough confidence we'll win that, like said by others, by simple and decent scumhunting.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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@Docpotter: posts 220 and 224 show how Jack takes a quote, and in then makes it so that the person is essentially arguing against himself. He reasons logically from the quote to get to something untrue in Elmo's case, and actually attacks Fghtwas with it.
Since both players obviously didn't intent for their words to be used this way, Jack is strawmanning. He tries to be smarter then the rest of the game by logically deriving the others are wrong, from their own words.
and sorry, Elvis, the answer was still on notepad. I forgot when I had to defend. And I'll hate the person who can twist this in being scummy.Blue is theory again.
I think DGB is scum, and I told you I wouldn't have done that because it was sub-optimal town play. It is of little use to say that to someone that is scum.elvis_knits wrote:@ myko, why did you pitch a fit when I posted my reads, but said nothing when DGB posted her reads?
DrippingGoofball wrote:
You're not trying to change the way I always play, are you???mykonian wrote:DGB, wouldn't it be better to keep this quiet until scum attacks a player perceived towny, after which town reaction makes scum having a hard time talking himself out of it? This in stead of showing scum who they can attack?I ask you why your way is better then letting scum attack someone percieved town and then catch him on that? You seem to think so, I want your reason. But leave this question, Elvis answered.
see the question mark? I propose another theory, indeed assuming that town who think the same (well, should), somewhat agree on who is obviously town. You think this assumption is wrong: how is it scummy?Flareonage wrote:
That assumes that the town has secretly agreed on who is town. There's no way for that to happen, it would make it easier for scum to attack players. DGB's suggestion made much more sensemykonian wrote:Note that I didn't call it scummy. I believed it to be antitown, but I never saw it this way.
DGB, wouldn't it be better to keep this quiet until scum attacks a player perceived towny, after which town reaction makes scum having a hard time talking himself out of it? This in stead of showing scum who they can attack?
Unvote
VOTE: Mykonian
Kai's strategy was to create a confirmed towny by letting the claimed teleporters change play on that moment. These then had to be killed by the scum. (this later proved to be an impossible tactic because of the rules)Plum wrote:
Is this a subtle argument against a proposed way of dealing with the mechanic while trying to look like he's behind it? This doen't look like an "Oh, I like it except couldn't it go bad if X", it looks like "wow, awesome way to do it, we could totally exploit this in favor of the Town . . . but I'm sure it's not as convenient as it looks. I'm sure you all agree!" It's themykonian wrote:Shouldn't you be fighting scum, in stead of another universe? And I linked Kairyuus post that gives us a confirmed player: that is exploiting the mechanic in a town way.But if we let too many players switch universe, things might get very confusing, do we agree?panderingof the tone while subtly trying to dissuade from a plan of action for no good or adequately explained reason (seriously, dude, about as many people are going to be switching places whatever strategy we follow) that makes my stomach turn. I've just successfully erased - reversed a vibe on the guy.
There was also talking about sending scummy players to the other universe. These stay in the game, are not confirmed scum or town, etc: these confuse.
So while I argued that we shouldn't do that, the plan to create confirmed townies was good. I argued against sending scummy players, but in favor using Kai's idea to make confirmed townies.
It doesn't work. We thought it did on that moment. And I was fully in favor of it, seen previous quote. So nothing half assed, and I am against teleporting scummy players between the universes. This tactic solves nothing (on average just as many get send here as are send there), but does create confusion.Unvote; Vote: Mykonian. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out what Myko's proposed strategywas. Oh, no Teleportation . . . and then this sort of half-assed endorsement/denouncement of Kairyuu's pull-the-Teleporters plan. And even though he's against all Teleporting, when asked he endorses Kai's plan. How how how the hell does that work, may I ask?
Sure. I used the wrong word. They are more likely to lose against scum, when scummy players get send between the universes. Sorry. Seen my other posts, I hope the message came through.
Care to explain what you meant by the bolded, Myko?mykonian wrote:This is why I wanted my post quoted on the other side: it is senseless to shove scummy players between the universes,it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town.
And now after having found that evil of Myk's above I'm wondering if Myk's BS "major scumslip" of DGB's he's so certain of is really scummy and not just totally clueless (honestly, I may have excused it before partly due to a sort of too-scummy-to-be-scum feeling . . . but I;ve seen scumbags make out totally fake scumtells and ascribe greater certainty to their flawed logic than a sane townie ever would).there is a suspicion I could be scum and suddenly everything I say is invalid. Plum, simple solution: look at the point itself and see if you agree it is a point against DGB. It is that way always: you look at what other people say and see how much you yourself agree with it.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Wait, this post answers itself, Elvis. First, I am not thinking you are scum, but point you the way I would prefer your posts to be: More input, and divided into cases on people. Not a list which mostly gives this info: you assume gayle to be town and raskol to be scum, and you reason other allignments from there.mykonian wrote:for once, he is right, Elvis. You are not helping. Esspecially it only shows again you focus on gayle-town bad wagon, raskol-scum good wagon. From this assumptions you reason, and this list is your conclusion: I think you don't have used enough input, and when you do have enough, cases on people function better.
We know DGB it is not the first time DGB is wacky. Why did you mention this?
Not that I mind your questions, but please, we are only filling the thread this way. And I wouldn't mind either if you answered my questions.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Gayle, look at who said it: DGB has thought me scum for quite some time. It isn't that weird for her to call her new bystander (who found what a lot of people read over) town. Can't say I disagree, though plum doesn't post enough yet.
And it seems to happen when the last post of a page is posted. The new page is then already shown, while there are no posts for it yet.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Plum asked the question, gayle... Investigation is towny. CSL just hopped on, DGB used it to finally follow her suspicion with a vote. Pop's could be right, because this is pretty much target practice for scum.
CSL is far from beautiful.
DGB was lucky enough to finally get the person she wanted. Those would be my prime suspects on the wagon.
Fishy's approach was quite towny, I think. He questioned the situation, analyzed it, and then gave the possible reasons, with likelyness of me being scum. I see you had a good IC, fishySurrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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You seem to be missing two points.CSL wrote:@ Gayle: I did not follow Plum. I found it on my own. However, Plum (and whoever else voted myko) already posted the "slip" and wuoting the post might not have done any good.
And yeah, Gayle, I keep getting that stupid error. It needs to die.
@ Pops: I hope that was a joke, because you can see the roles on the first page...
Pops says the tell is probably an insignificant mistake, why did you ignore this, but did ask the obvious question if introduction was a joke?
Gayle accuses you of bandwagonning. You answer that quoting wouldn't have done any good. How does this in any way defend you?
Why are you both times avoiding the point of the post, and diverting attention to the insignificant part (the site-problem and the joke-introduction by Pops)Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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wait a minute. not so fast.
First, ABR says something reasonable. Later, when town gets in a tight spot, using the teleporter as a vig is becoming more important.
CSL: Bullshit. First it was the most important thing in the whole game. Now, you haven't answered my questions, you don't explain at all why quoting would have made it worse, you don't respond to accusations from Gayle, and above all, you UNVOTE.
DGB: Oh, he lurks, we know that. You have been disagreeing with me from the start of the game. If someone was going to stay on me for the rest of the game, it would have been you. Why ABR? (apart from the weird claimed powerroles part, that could be a minor tell, I suppose)Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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That case on CSL (the policy lurking one) was sadly by someone else. I was the one who didn't like the way he bandwagonned, after that refused to answer when his actions were questioned, and talked in stead about the things of those posts that didn't matter.DrippingGoofball wrote:Now I'm back to being sketchy on your alignment. CSL? Raskol? Yeah, maybe Raskol. Your reluctance for vote for a lurkerscum like ABR is jarring, given your willingness to vote CSL, whose case is, if I recall correctly, a policy lynch for lurking.
THAT is inconsistent in a scummy way.
unvote, vote: mykonian
And after the recent posts: Is lurking a tell that works on ABR-scum often? If it is his meta, I can see the argument more easily, but seen your and his posts, something personal is dragged into this game.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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Here it is. Pops it was.popsofctown wrote:I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.
BTW: if there really is a problem between DGB and ABR, maybe it would be wise to teleport one of them. Sure, I'm against the confusion it would give, but:
a. it is day 1. It would maybe force only 20 pages of reading.
b. the problems between them might cloud their vision, drag the town into a fight that could have little to do with scumhunting, and in general it would create a distraction for the town.
Placing these two in seperate universes would solve the problem without using a costly lynch for it. If one is scum, that person would lose his/her target, and would have to think of something new.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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I know you would say this. But DGB, please follow my way of thought.DrippingGoofball wrote:
OMGmykonian wrote:BTW: if there really is a problem between DGB and ABR, maybe it would be wise to teleport one of them. Sure, I'm against the confusion it would give, but:
[...]
b. the problems between them might cloud their vision, drag the town into a fight that could have little to do with scumhunting, and in general it would create a distraction for the town.
mykonian just confessed scum with ABR.
So. Which one are we lynching first?
You said ABR wouldn't post because he knew you would be all over him.
He is not his active leading town self, as others have said, he is more lurking then normal.
Now look at this from the point of view (and I know this is hard for you), where don't know your allignments. I fear you limit ABR's scumhunting, and ABR clouds your vision. If ABR is scum, that problem is removed for you anyway (or you would go to the other universe, or he would be send there).
This is all because I don't see this problem being solved by a lynch, since there are better (and seen the votes, more popular) bandwagons.
Fishy is clearly not one of them. Townies mess up too, sometimes. I have no interest in that wagon.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I took the bolded part as regardless of allignment.DrippingGoofball wrote:@ mykonian
Enjoy the roller coaster ride.
popsofctown wrote:I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.
Not familiar with ABR's play. I wouldn't call someone "lurkerscum" unless they lurk and additionally have shown a scumtell. Where's the scumtell on Albert?Meta - I believe him to be keeping a low profile because if he doesn't he knows I'll be all over him like a pit bull on a ham bone.
In addition, he's clearly not paying attention to anything. So, keeping a low profile and not paying attention = scum. His buddies should hurry up and give him some content to parrot to help him look like he's reading the game.
And if you for once read my posts completely, you'd see that I said that a lynch would solve the problem too, but that I have doubts that ABR will be the lynch.since teleportation takes place after the lynch, saying it is probably better you are divided has nothing to do with who we lynch, how we lynch or whatever.
And seen his post, he feared you would be on him regardless of what he did. This might not be intentional, but if this is true, it wouldn't help your scumhunting, would it, DGB.
DGB, it is so easy to make me look like scum who is stopping your scumhunting. Like teleportation would keep ABR save today. You linked me to ABR, as if I were defending him. ABR, your who was your easy target anyway. Now, with this conspiracy posted, you have another way to call me scum.
First I was scum trying to look town with a question. Now I'm scum for trying to keep two people who clearly have no way of constructively playing with each other out of each other by arguing for placing them in different universes. Come on DGB, you can't make me seem scum with everything I do. What's next?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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1. Seen the votecount, the interest in my lynch, elvis's, Raskols.
2. His "you are just as bad as adel" was not a defense, but a complaint. He didn't bother to defend.
3. Defending is probably the better word.
4. I will. No talk about night actions prohibits a lynch.
5. It is clear that it is normal for you two to be over each other. So it is almost expected from you to vote him and call him scum.
6. Please tell me how I can miss it.
This was his post after your vote on him. He doesn't defend, only suggest this is the same thing over and over again. Sounds a lot like a personal problem to me.Albert B. Rampage wrote:I am shocked by the vote...not. You and Adel are really the same.
DGB, I find it funny how you try to talk this into a conspiracy. First, albert must be scum, then, before the game, he must have communicated what you were going to do, but he didn't take actions to prohibit it. In stead, he asked his scumbuddy to ask for a teleportation after you would vote him. Seriously, this is reaching.
unvote vote DGBFabricating evidence, no matter how weird you play, is not town.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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@fwaslskgas
uhm, no. I never get myself lynched as town. That scum will attack me is great. Let them. We all know what that mistake means, and people react to it. People will react to it day 2, day 3. etc.
Scum will have to handle me in some way, and I sure am not going to make it easy for them. Since the mistake happened so far from lylo, this is not yet a problem. But scum can't keep me around till lylo, and then suddenly come up with the mistake again. They have to find some way to keep pressure on me.
I'm as an antitown player. Every scum would know that Zwet could be mislynched, but how to do it savely was the problem. Everybody knew scum was going to try it. The difference between zwet and me is that I do try to defend, and scumhunt for the whole time I'm here. So no, I'm not giving up so easily because I typed something wrong. I'm going to hurt scum before I go. They would have wished they nightkilled me.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Great you finally post your full conspiracy, then I don't have to guess. (1)Seen ABR's quote (above), this is not limited to roles.DrippingGoofball wrote:EBWOP, fixing quote tags.
HOLY MOTHER OF ALL MISREPSmykoscum wrote:DGB, I find it funny how you try to talk this into a conspiracy. First, albert must be scum, then, before the game, he must have communicated what you were going to do, but he didn't take actions to prohibit it. In stead, he asked his scumbuddy to ask for a teleportation after you would vote him. Seriously, this is reaching.
No. What I said was that Albert joined the game knowing who was playing in it. He replaced in, received a scum PM. Then in your QT started to bitch about personal issues that (1) don't exist beyond my hating being scum with ABR and (2) am I totally able to be fair and un-biased especially since I'm town. In any event it's clear that the two of you are communicating information outside the game and you are not masons. You are scumz.
I am glad that you "never get [your]self lynched as town" because you are now getting lynched as scum.
(2) nobody ever is fair in this game. Just see the amounts of mislynches, everytime something went wrong. Nobody's perfect.
DGB, this is where you are clearly framing me. I don't need a QT to see that ABR doesn't care about your attack, since nothing would help. I don't need a QT to see that you tell that ABR could have known that if he posted, you would be all over him. But these arguments you don't want to hear. No there must be a conspiracy.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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There are also coming scummy players here. How hard can it be to understand this? Scum wants to stay alive, and a teleportator is not a vig!elvis_knits wrote:I'm sorry but it's hella stupid to for somebody to pre-emptively defend albert's lurking and lack of scum hunting by blaming DGB, who has done nothing to him that I can see. I don't think this would ever be a valid excuse for someone not scumhunting, but particularly in this instance I think it's stupid. I also think people who are discouraging teleportation are anti-town. Scum have more of a reason to dislike telportation, especially since we have decided to try to teleport scummy players.
Plus that I'm practically the only one arguing for it, you could just as easily have said I am antitown, in stead of taking this roundabout way of saying it.
Plus it wasn't pre-emptive. And arguing for a teleportation is always after the lynch, so lynch albert, and the whole problem isn't there. But if he isn't lynched, I propose that either he or DGB is send, for reasons mentioned earlier.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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DGB claims otherwise. She says ABR must have told me they were there. I thought to read it in ABR's post.elvis_knits wrote:Myko, I wasn't trying to be roundabout. I was talking about you and only you being hella stupid regarding your defense of albert.
If you are town, you are not helping find scum. You are arguing about stupid things like, that we should not teleport, or we should use it to jettison abr for personality reasons (when actually we should lynch him since he's scummy, or teleport him because he's scummy... not for personality conflicts --seriously personality conflicts between abr and dgb haven't played a part until you started worrying about it).
But I'll take your word for it.
And I fully agree we should never lynch someone for personality conflicts, that's why I proposed this. I feared that was the reason, and teleportation would betheway to deal with it.
I better stay out of it then. It seems I'm more likely to make things worse, as you say it.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Rhinox, blue post coming (theory)
I didn't answer that question, I missed it. We disagree about the use of the word WIFOM. WIFOM is a phenomenom that comes up in this game where there is a tactic or action that is helpful to town. The opposite action would be beneficial for scum. Because of WIFOM, scum won't allways take the course to help their own chances, but they will pick a percentage of the time the towny option, as not to give themselves away.
So essentially, everything scum does, everything this game is, is seeing through these possible actions and see what scum did. WIFOM is a central part of the game, and little information here is absolute (like there isn't a definate towntell: WIFOM taints this as scum will do it too). Every information is changed by WIFOM. The more information, the better town can try to find scum.
So you tell me I created WIFOM. I didn't. I created information, but none of this information is absolute. But that is not my problem, that is the nature of this game.
to compare this to confusion is not fair, I think. Neither is calling confusion imaginary. The bigger the mess, the less effective the town. Big rereads will slow the game down.
I see that nobody agrees with me, and that the teleporter will teleport players anyway.
About crosskills. I wanted that I could share your optimism, but I don't see scum going for scummy players that are zapped in. Neither do I see the new scum shooting other then players that are likely town. The greatest effect you will again achieve close to endgame. (where I have argued the teleportation mechanic finally becomes useful).
Rhinox wrote: