Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[VP Baltar]

Hi everyone, I'll try and read this universe today or tomorrow and post my thoughts. I'm a touch busy, so it might take me a bit longer to catch up on the other one if I need to.

Also,

Unvote

whatever Kairyuu had going.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, up to page 7 so far. Why is there not a gigantic wagon on Jack? His attempt to derail any strategizing by Kairyuu (who proposed the exact plan I thought would be optimal when I first looked at the setup) is ridiculously scummy. His grounds for trying to stop it is that he a) is banking on very unlikely crosskills ( I mean, seriously, this would NEVER happen like he is saying) and b) it'd be "boring" to game the setup.

Unless something changes in the next seven pages, Jack needs to be dead and soon.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah well, logic wins. Ya dig?

Also, I think these setups ridiculously favor scum from the start, but whatevs. Nico seems pretty townish early on. So does ani. Ellibereth, not so much.

[VP Baltar]

Someone in the other universe needs to quote this

If you lynch first today, you get a confirmed inno with serious scumhunting power tomorrow. DGB has claimed mason, and so far hasn't been counterclaimed. Pull her across and be in a much better position. DP is a decent lynch, no need to hang around 2 days before doing the inevitable.

The following players haven't posted since DGB's claim:
Raskol
Plum
Ojanen
evilsnail
Once they have, it's safe to assume that DGB is real.

I don't have any other strong suspicions right now. Obviously, I'll be trying to get some as a matter of urgency.

I'll just leave this here. Saving DGB should be a priority. Finishing the rest of my reading in this universe today. Not sure if I will be able to complete the other one this weekend, but I'll try.

[VP Baltar]

Yes I definitely think we should. But we need to lynch quickly to do that. you're obviously the most viable candidate, but I need to finish my reread before I can really say I'm comfortable with that happening. Jack is probably a better target imo, but for the sake of getting a lynch done and saving DGB, I may be willing to compromise.

[VP Baltar]

I don't know if we'll have the active players around to switch wagons, even if Jack or someone else looks like a better choice. We just haven't had that activity all day, so all it may do is ensure we miss the deadline.

This is basically what I am worried about. If I've come to late to redirect things, then so be it, but I just wanted to put my opinion out there.

re: Jack - I definitely felt he was trying to paint Kairyuu in a negative light for (rightly) strategizing. His reasoning against is highly suspicious, imo, and reads like a scum trying to dissuade the town from sussing out a good win strategy. Further, I really don't like unvote after someone said that it was "silly" to be voting Kairyuu. Seemed like scum backpedaling to me.

As of page 9, I'm still not seeing how doc is being scummy necessarily. We'll see. Back to reading.

[VP Baltar]

oh and Jack's vote on obv. town Nicodemus was redonkulous.

[VP Baltar]

Now, if I were a scumbag, and someone started talking about a breaking strategy that got fixed but could still give the town a significant advantage, and I didn't really fully understand the details (I don't think this is uncharitable given comments from a bunch of people) so I couldn't evaluate how bad it was, I might knee-jerk - I might panic slightly, and act roughly like Jack. When it emerged that it's probably difficult to implement and might not be that strong, I'd think perhaps I'd overplayed my hand a little.. I think that would explain his subsequent U-turn nicely. I just have great difficulty believing that JackTown would react quite like that to Kai.

yep.

[VP Baltar]

Also, just as a note as I"m reading, why are people spending so much time scumhunting in the other universe while the activity here is dismal? Apparently there was some back and forth with mykonian and I think anyone who encourages this is unnecessarily distracting from the task at hand. Hopefully we can stop this in future days and only reference the other universe when we are either dealing with one of their players here or trying to figure out an optimal teleportation strategy with them.

[VP Baltar]

1. Initial unvote on Kairyuu hadn't resolved his initial reason for voting. It makes me think he was looking for a reason to disagree on strategy, and get on a wagon, instead of finding Kairyuu's vote on Jack suspicious.
2. Appeal to meta is not a townish defense even nearing a lynch.
3. I can agree that did too much scumhunting in the other universe only because he ignored too many people in this universe. He mostly interacts with Kairyuu, Elli and DRK. He mentions a few more people like once or twice, then ignores the rest completely.

1) I suppose I can at least see this
2) No, you're wrong. I think it's null.
3) I don't like the scumhunting in the other universe, but it certainly isn't damning evidence. I could see a misguided townie focusing his/her efforts there though since they are apparently much more talkative.

Ok, I HATE the DocPotter wagon. A huge majority of the people jumped on with the reason "bandwagon lolololol". How is this even being considered as the best option today? Jahudo, you in particular disappoint me.

Jack needs to be dead. I've outlined plenty of reasons already for this, so I don't think I need to go over them again. I'd add that I hate he was pushing for the DGB lynch all day and we know what that got us.

Right now, the Jack wagon is very feasible. He is at L-5. I'm going to

Vote: Jack

, so that is now L-4. Additionally, DRK needs to come over and maybe Kise (though I don't really know what his feelings are on Jack).

Anon, while I definitely agree with you that Ellibereth is scum (second on my list), I don't think that lynch is feasible today and we need to get this done immediately. Please come over and vote Jack. I'm pretty sure they are scumbuddies, so it won't matter which one we eliminate first.

(that's L-2 or L-1 depending on Kise)

Other than that, I think Jahudo or Nicodemus need to wisen up and actually look at the case that is being presented against DocPotter. Also, I don't see how you think a scum would be so brazen in a theory debate with Kairyuu. I have played with Annachie before as town and as of right now I don't see a lot that I would consider outside of his town play here. Jack is a far superiour lynch and his own abandonmen to of the DP wagon at the 11th hour should be setting off major alarms for you.

Let's get in here and get it done now people.


As far as my other scum reads now that I'm fully caught up: Maelyn and Lowell in that order.

That is all and sorry for taking up most of this page.

[VP Baltar]

VP, everything you've said about me has been said before, and argued against before.

I call my gut cases gut cases, do the same.

Saying things to counter arguments does not mean you're actually being convincing. There is nothing gut about my case.

VP, Jack, et al: Can you try to dissect those above 2 Jack quotes?

Sure

Unvote,Vote:Kairyuu

Who's to say you weren't scum proposing a sub optimal plan? It'd be nice not to be transported over to the other universe and killed by chance wouldn't it?

I think Jack here is giving a knee-jerk reaction to Kairyuu putting forth a fairly solid strategy (at least at the time). Jack latched onto a very asinine detail in the slim potential for cross kills and then somehow parried that into calling Kairyuu scum who was afraid of being cross killed if was somehow sent to the other universe. I don't believe I can think of a more ludicrous assumption to be making.

Jack felt cornered by Kai trying to break the scum so early in the game and thus lashed out at him as scum. Now, what I think a townie would actually do in that situation is not to vote Kairyuu, but rather to logically explain what he/she thinks the flaw in the plan is. Instead, when Kairyuu voted him after repeating his plan several times and Jack still shouting him down for a statistically improbable occurrence (cross killing), Jack emotionally lashed back with a nonsense vote.

But townies often omgus vote on the basis that arguments against them are obviously false, they feel that anyone making them is mafia faking a case.

Perhaps if you're a noob this is true. I don't think Jack is. It's a scummy play imo because you aren't looking to figure out if your attacker is actually town, you're just acting on a gut reaction of "this person is trying to make me look bad, I'll show him!"

[VP Baltar]

So you're saying your initial vote was to provide social commentary on the state of the game at that point?

[VP Baltar]

Hey everybody! Look what I got in the mail from the masons!

Letter to Universe 2

Dear Universe 2,

Please lynch Jack. It's a no-brainer.

Love,

DGB

[VP Baltar]

*sigh*

Jahudo, you should look at Ellibereth in iso. He has done ZERO scumhunting in this game. He even said so himself, if you'll recall. He said he couldn't get a grasp on it. Then he active lurked. A lot. Then he joined in on the scumhunting in the other universe.

Nico's vote post doesn't have any real reason to believe Doc to be scum. The only time he mentions him is when he says that Doc's strategy is stupid. While I agree it wasn't a viable strategy, to arrive at the conclusion that he is mafia " trying to earn town points by suggesting strategies" is pretty much a huge leap in logic that there is no evidence for. Do you, Jahudo, really think that Doc is "trying to hard to look town" this game? If he was, then he's doing a terrible job of it.

I think you are reaching to make fhq's vote sound better than it was. Here it is:

vote: DocPotter bandwagon ftw!

wow, way to piggy back off of what other people said already and then just slide onto the leading bandwagon.

Maelyn's vote is garbage. They've done zero scumhunting this game and they're a frakking hydra. More piggybacking and sliding onto the leading wagon.

ani - well that speaks for itself.

So there you have it. I think you're giving far too much credit to some of these folks for a really weak wagon. You single point is the only one against Doc that I think is legitimate and it's not nearly enough to make me want to lynch him over Jack, who has been bleeding scum juice out of his eyes all game.

I'm still petitioning for the mass switch by the end of the day today.

[VP Baltar]

Hey maelyn, Elmo has been voting Jack for quite some time.

Also, I've stated the case on him several times. Try reading the thread.

What exactly are you looking for DP to do to "redeem" himself? We need to be lynching soon (preferably today) so we can pull DGB from Universe 1, so it's time for you two to stop stalling and actually get involved in this game.

[VP Baltar]

@Jack- I appreciate you saying sorry, but don't worry about it. I've been called far worse for far less.

I understand what you are saying with your Person A and B examples, but I don't think it's applicable here, nor do I think those are the only two possible responses to an accusation.

Obviously I still disagree with you over your vote Kai thing, and Elmo is mostly right about your overall voting record, which is quite strange.

I really don't understand your vote on Elmo beyond OMGUS, which seems to be a recurring trend for you this game. Do you really think he's scum or you just disagree with his case on you?

As far as your reasons for disagreeing with Kai's plan:

1) I don't care if it sounds fun or not. If it helps the town win, then it's the best course of action.
2) the vig push plan is nowhere near as guaranteed as Kai's plan since we would have no clue if we were successful or not until the pushed player was killed.
3) no matter how much you repeat this, it's still highly unlikely that the mafia would crosskill and it is certainly not something that I would want to bank on.

As far as implementing Kai's plan, if I'm not mistaken a wrench has been thrown in that potentially by needing to Pull DGB today, but we have time to work that out later. Right now we need to be lynching either Jack or DP. In terms of an actual case being made for one or other of these people, I think it is clear who the choice needs to be.

[VP Baltar]

Hey maelyn, Elmo has been voting Jack for quite some time.

Also, I've stated the case on him several times. Try reading the thread.

What exactly are you looking for DP to do to "redeem" himself? We need to be lynching soon (preferably today) so we can pull DGB from Universe 1, so it's time for you two to stop stalling and actually get involved in this game.

Goddammit I'm blind today, sorry about that.

Oh, yes Mr. Pro-Town. I know that.

Eeeh, just for him to do something pro-town , really.

(/waits for "buthevotedforjack" response)

Love,
Mae

Well I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it was a very long exchange with Jack and I don't think should have repeat it when it's right there in the past two pages or so.

I would like your opinion on it, however. What do you think of Jack? Are you willing to vote him today? Do you think Doc has been scummy or just anti-town today?

[VP Baltar]

well, I guess you live to fight another day Jack. At least DGB will be here tomorrow. DEATH misses his bride.

[VP Baltar]

Sigh.

Vote:jack

[VP Baltar]

I want the other mason to claim and dump any discussion you had.

[VP Baltar]

Actually, yeah, I want to with draw that. We can wait a couple days to maximize our lynch potential, though role is useless now.


Also, let's not talk about the teleporter's choice anymore since it's only going to help scum better figure out who to kill.

I'd like to hear from everyone on the Doc Potter wagon yesterday now that he's flipped town.

[VP Baltar]

Read the thread. it's short.

[VP Baltar]

Here's what I dont' understand about this setup. Scum are obviously going to kill whoever shows up, right? Am I missing something?

You mean from the other universe? Depends on the person, but even if that person is the most pro-town person out there, at least getting teleported gives them another day to live.

Also, these elmo votes are about the biggest bag of fail I've seen since Doc Potter. Jack remains scum with a very good case outlined yesterday (which should have been followed in the first place).

I need to reread Jahudo today.

[VP Baltar]

Cliffnotes on Jack (though I recommend reading the end of Day 1):

1) Discourages figuring out optimal town strategy for teleporter use
2) Voting is horrible and devoid of reason
3) I especially don't like his play around the Doc Potter wagon

(and before you reply Jack, I have no intention of debating these with you again today so let's not even waste either of our time.)

[VP Baltar]

Welcome to the game VP! Glad I get to play with you. And I'm even more glad that you replaced into a townie slot, at least from where I'm sitting.

Indeed, nice to see you. Would have liked you on the Jack wagon yesterday, but I'll forgive you if you come over today.

What would you want to hear? I'm still sticking with my decision, as it was the best to go on at the time. We were wrong, time to find scum.

Really? That was the best decision at the time? Did you read the part where I pointed out how crappy the wagon was and gave you a very viable alternative? What I want to hear is who you guys think is scum now that you've seen your number one flip town.

[VP Baltar]

Plus that I just have something against helping the other universe, when they clearly don't care about the game (not getting DGB).

I really hope you don't think that one idiotic decision by a single player here means that we should intentionally be trying to screw each other over. Both towns are going to lose if we turn on each other, I can almost guarantee that.

I'm just as pissed as you about it since we're probably the ones who were hurt more by it, but I think we should just move past it for now and hope that the Teleporters can wisen up in future days.

I really hate playing the diplomat, but encouraging rage across the universe is anti-town at best.

[VP Baltar]

Day 2 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 1 ) Anon
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Starbuck ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
Elmo ( 1 ) Lowell
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 4 ) VP Baltar DeathRowKitty Starbuck Nicodemus
VP Baltar ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 7 ) Kise Plum fhqwhads Maelyn animorpherv1 Elmo Jack
Total ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

Let's play a fun game called who's da scum. My guesses are Jack, Lowell, Maelyn or Ellibereth (who is no longer our problem atm).

What do you think (everyone else)? who's da scum?


Also, who is completely read up on the other thread? What are your thoughts on Plum? I'm only on page 22 over there at the moment, but I'm trying to catch up. So far I don't have much of an opinion other than she was lurking a lot early on.

[VP Baltar]

I've done no reading of the other thread. Off the top of my head I'd say elmo and VP scum, jack a possibility.

Based on what exactly? Elmo and I both said the wagon yesterday was crappy and what do you know, Doc flipped town. You are really going to have to actually back up your accusations if you expect me to not think you're floundering scum.

[VP Baltar]

Plum, why are you lurking so hard this game? Is your jury duty and all of that business done now? Have you read this thread yet? Why do you think you were deported?

Yes, I'm floundering, what with my zero votes.

huh?

My read on you is that you're excessively meta and that you like to control the conversation.

I don't know what you mean by "excessively meta", but I do control the conversation if I think there is a need for it. When I'm town and I see the rest of the town lurking or not generating good discussion I will often do whatever I need to get the game moving in a positive direction that is more likely to find scum. How is pushing discussion forward scummy?

For now you get credit at least for trying to move the game forward, but in general I think you do more asking questions than answering them.

Ask me questions then? I can't answer things that aren't being asked.

Also, being right about doc doesn't necessairly earn you points. Often scum like to distance from a wrong wagon so that the following day they can say "I said the wagon yesterday was crappy", as you've done. So that cuts both ways.

I can agree with you on a general level about this, but I would argue that I wasn't just saying 'this wagon's bad' yesterday, as a scum typically would. I was actively arguing against it and pointing out legitimate reasons why it was bad. If you can't see that as honest intention and the fact that I really did want Jack lynched instead, then I suggest you review that day.

[VP Baltar]

Jack, have you ever played with Elmo before?

[VP Baltar]

I suggest you check to see if his posting style in this game is within his norm then (hint: it is).

[VP Baltar]

I'm not attacking you over playstyle so much as you being scum in this game, so I don't need to meta you at all.

[VP Baltar]

I would lynch maelyn today actually. There is no way a hydra should be lurking. That's the point of having a hydra, to share the work load.

In fact, let's

Unvote, Vote: Maelyn

Post content or die.

[VP Baltar]

No, I think a PBPA of every player is unnecessary and will clog the thread. How about you just say who is suspicious and give legit reasons why? That is plenty sufficient to make me not think you're tryint o lurk your way through this game.

[VP Baltar]

I want you to stay Kise, but you know best if you can actually play the game or not.

[VP Baltar]

@Kise-I'm not certain about Lowell because he tends to look scummy to me. I'd be willing to lynch him today just to get a big question out of my list if we port Jack the hell out of here.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: Jack

That works too! Reverse my plan.

[VP Baltar]

L-1 for Jack, btw. A claim is probably in order.


Currently on page 35 or so of U1. Still don't see Plum as scum, so I'm glad she's here atm.

[VP Baltar]

Oi, Plum, Imma let you finish, but let's not spend our time scumhunting in the other Universe.

This thread needs more activity, so your attention being directed here would be nice.

Learn to <3 U2.

[VP Baltar]

Plum and VP, you can answer the question I asked Kise too. It's important.

The number is L-1. Division by DEATH.

Claim.

[VP Baltar]

And Nicodemus I see browsing, what are you thinking about Nicodemus?

^scum, stalling to decide what his claim should be.

[VP Baltar]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim can take a lifetime.

[VP Baltar]

Scum confirmed. Someone hammer.

[VP Baltar]

VP, you seem like a nice guy, but I don't like having my intelligence insulted.

Thanks, you too. It's a shame we couldn't have been on the same team.

I'd like to read over the thread and name my top three suspects and why, just for the "I told you so's" if I'm right.

So, you don't know who you suspect and why? interesting.

---------[]

[VP Baltar]

Don't feed the

troll

scum.

[VP Baltar]

He's had plenty of time to claim, but whatevs.

[VP Baltar]

oh haaaaay, this is still going on? What a surprise.

[VP Baltar]

The odds on Jack claiming page 20 are 14:1. Can I get any takers?

[VP Baltar]

Why the hell are you guys voting Jack and acting like he is confirmed scum? Did I miss something or what?

You're either scum or have officially spent too much time on 4chan killing your brain.