Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Hoopla]

quick pops, who should i vote for. i'm so confused.

[Hoopla]

i like the speed in which you replied. i don't think scum would do such a thing.

vote: pops

my question was a trap anyway.

[Hoopla]

i'm just thankful i was dropped into the cool universe. whoever our teleporter is needs to ship away mykonian.

[Hoopla]

what's the point in teleporting a corpse into the other universe?

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla you replaced someone that is on my scum list who offered next to nothing. I would like your views on the players in the game and who you think is scum.

Oh, i hate it when that happens. i'll post some views if you convince everyone to stop cluttering the thread up with inane drivel. i'm finding it hard to filter through when i keep having to read new pages.

i don't know who i am suspicious of yet. i think elvis is town, and probably mykonian.

[Hoopla]

Wait, have there been claims? I'm so out of the loop. Someone explain what's happening please.

[Hoopla]

Read the last two pages Hoopla. DGB just claimed universe mason.

I see. I think she ought to claim her partner. If she's truthful, her value to the town has been reduced - but if she's scum, she needs to claim a partner (either a scumpartner on a townie). The first would be stupid, the second would be suicide when the townie says, 'um, no', enabling us to trap DGB without outing the real masons.

The only benefits really is if she is scum. But because we're already in a diminished position if she's town, we might as well take that opportunity, right?

[Hoopla]

(either a scumpartner on a townie)

OR

a townie.

Tonight is not my night.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla: NO. The other mason is in the other universe. They'll get killed both! DGB should not claim her partner.

How are you supposed to catch her lying then?

[Hoopla]

Hoopla: NO. The other mason is in the other universe. They'll get killed both! DGB should not claim her partner.

How are you supposed to catch her lying then?

We know there is one mason in each universe (to start). So if she is lying, the real mason in this universe should counterclaim.

Hmm, that's probably a better plan.

[Hoopla]

Pops, why is ABR getting lynched?

[Hoopla]

Actually, can I be moved into universe two? They talk a lot less.

thanks in advance

[Hoopla]

I'm not totally comfortable with an ABR lynch - my gut really thinks he's town. If my vote is needed in a deadline situation, I'll do that, but I'd prefer to lynch CSL. EK's points on him are good, and move my read from neutral to scummy.

Perhaps your gut is a statistician?

[Hoopla]

I don't understand?

Just an observation that town gut reads aren't special when there is an 80% chance you'll be right. Unless of course you think the percentages are a lot higher than random. But then again, it's gut, so you don't have to think about it.

[Hoopla]

GHOSTSLAY

sorry, i'm confused. but what is this?

[Hoopla]

is it working?

[Hoopla]

I think it's scummy.

FoS Elvis

[Hoopla]

ghost lay

[Hoopla]

I think I trust Gayle the most;

Vote: popsofctown

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: who is scum? Why are you posting so briefly, and not giving us reads?

I don't know. I'm confused.

I have a gut feeling CSL is town, and I don't think DGB's wagon was town-driven. I want to look through vote counts for Day 1, but Zoraster is one of those annoying mods that makes you click every single page for them, which is annoying me because the site takes me a long time to load sometimes.

I want to contribute some thoughts on that when I have time after work. But I read your post about pops, and I can't grasp all of the references, but I think you sound sincere, and I want to help you by being on Pops' wagon.

[Hoopla]

I didn't know where to start when having to sift through a 40 page Day 1 to find information - there was a lot of noisy back-and-forths that clouded my understanding of the game so far. So, I decided to look at the more visual information of votes and bandwagons to get me started. I copied all the votecounts into a spreadsheet and began to think about where to expect scum, and then identify patterns to give me specific people/passages of play to look at.

My first theory is something I've used before, about a scum consciousness - a natural understanding/following of each other's play as a team that forces you to adopt different positions/suspicions. I think it's a subconcious thing, even experienced scum players don't bundle all their eggs in one basket and create obvious links between the whole team.

I've seen one game, where a 5-player scumteam all jumped on a townwagon in a row, but I don't envisage a 3-player scumteam taking such risks, as they have more to lose, and frankly it isn't necessary to do on Day 1. Here are some snippets from D1 vote counts;

Page 6:

gayle ( 3 ) fishythefish farside22 popsofctown

Page 11:

Raskol ( 3 ) evilsnail farside22 ojanen

Page 12:

DrippingGoofball

( 3 ) mykonian plum popsofctown

Page 19:

Raskol ( 3 ) evilsnail ojanen fishythefish

Page 22:

DrippingGoofball

( 4 ) mykonian

Albert B. Rampage

popsofctown farside22

Page 34:

CSL ( 3 ) Rhinox ojanen elvis_knits


In all of these cases, I'd rule out a scumteam of the above sets of players, based on scum conciousness not wanting to be all bundled together. I loosely conclude that the names that appear in the most sets are slightly more town, as I have ruled out a small amount of possible teams they can be in - as opposed to other players who I have not.

~~

Next;

Page 38:

Albert B. Rampage

( 5 ) gayle elvis_knits farside22 popsofctown CSL

Page 39:

Albert B. Rampage

( 8 ) gayle elvis_knits farside22 popsofctown CSL fishythefish plum mykonian

I'm wary of how quickly the last part of ABR's wagon ballooned to lynch, and think it's likely one of the last three voters is scum. Plum's vote feels the weakest, and combined with her presence on the DGB wagon, I am finding her to be a main suspect, and I want to read her more soon.

I think

one

of fishythefish and evilsnail is a decent chance of scum, but I don't want to say why yet. I still want to look at some other information first.

~~

Farside and elvis_knits are looking very town in my eyes, and I don't think I want to lynch pops any more.

Unvote

[Hoopla]

Has anyone asked why Rhinox told DGB to claim when he put her at L-1 (she was actually only at L-2 - seemed like an honest mistake). It seems like an unnecessary thing to do, when I don't think there was a majority at the time who wanted her dead.

I don't think I'm convinced with Ojanen's and mykonian's pressing on Rhinox, though - it seems weak for a 50 page game.

[Hoopla]

Vote: Plum

while I'm at it.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, Plum was teleported to the other universe.
(will have time for real post later today.)

Oh, I feel stupid now.

Unvote

[Hoopla]

Vote: Plum

while I'm at it.

Why did you even vote plum here? I don't see you mention her at all. So this is completely random.

Then, you should read my post again!

[Hoopla]

Do I get to wear a badge?

[Hoopla]

This is going to make bandwagon analysis so annoying.

[Hoopla]

Hey pops, can I read some of your town games? I only know you from Mafia 105.

[Hoopla]

you seem more serious and focused in your town games, pops. do you think that's true?

[Hoopla]

I think pops is winning against Fishythefish.

[Hoopla]

I'm kind of sad. This game reminds me of Mafia 105 - which had a similar posting rate in it. In that game, it was several players (Vi, crypto, RayFrost) making a significant number of posts and forcing half of the town behind into catch-up mode very regularly. I made a post about it.

I think it's probably going to happen here too, with regular new people entering our universe. I can't believe it took 40 pages to lynch someone on Day 1. It really turns me off trying to figure out what was happening, and I think it will be the same for new people teleported here. Was this ever discussed on Day 1? Because it seems like an obvious thing to me, but how can you go 40 pages for a lynch if it was acknowledged by the town.

For me, what happens when I fall behind is I make bad mistakes, and find it difficult to understand why something is happening through all the noise. I think I (and probably everyone else too) play good mafia, when I'm ahead of the curve. But I think it partially stems from those behind finding it difficult to incriminate you because you're ahead, and are talking more. I think the general trend is that those have the most time to dedicate to a game will win more often, because being ahead is an advantage.

I encourage good activity, but when it comes at the expense of forcing people behind, it isn't easy to find scum. So, I propose we make swifter lynches, rather than dragging things out. I hope that doesn't happen.

[Hoopla]

There's only so much 'discussion' the human mind has the ability to critically analyse. Once there is too much, people resort to out-of-context isoreads and summaries of previous events to base their reads on. I'm not saying lynch quickly. I'm saying don't waste 20+ pages per lynch, because every day we get someone new who has to read it all, and won't be able to use the information effectively anyway.

[Hoopla]

Well, I can see why you were teleported over here. You always this wagon-happy?

What's wrong with that?

[Hoopla]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox Ellibereth
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 1 ) farside22
farside22 ( 1 ) popsofctown
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 3 ) gayle elvis_knits fishythefish
Raskol ( 1 ) mykonian
Rhinox ( 1 ) ojanen
Maelyn ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) CSL Raskol Hoopla Maelyn
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

There's only so much 'discussion' the human mind has the ability to critically analyse. Once there is too much, people resort to out-of-context isoreads and summaries of previous events to base their reads on. I'm not saying lynch quickly. I'm saying don't waste 20+ pages per lynch, because every day we get someone new who has to read it all, and won't be able to use the information effectively anyway.

The post count is growing so fast because

other people

are scum hunting. You are telling everyone else to slow down in order to benefit you. When you replaced into the game it became

your

responsibility to keep up, not everyone else's responsibility to slow down.

I know this. But when we get a new person entering the universe every day, it's a significant amount of people that have to wade through all the 'discussion'. I'll laugh if we get to page 60 and we're still on day 2.

[Hoopla]

What's wrong with that?

Nothing necessarily, but it's an easy scum strategy, which is why I asked.

If someone has multiple suspicions, vote-hopping between them is perfectly fine, and pushes the game forward. Consistancy suits scum a lot more.

Unvote, vote: CSL

I've heard enough of the arguments to think it's not a bad lynch.

[Hoopla]

@pops: I think your attacks on DGB look genuinely bad. They were pretty well the first thing that made me suspect you, and I won't write them off as confirmation bias.

@Hoopla: in what way is pops "winning against me"? I am pretty much saying that his posts look insincere; he is shrugging and saying that they were sincere (which is, of course, a fair defense). The arguing around the edges (confirmation bias, DGB is an odd player) is really not important. What do you think of pops's day 1 votes, particularly on DGB? Do you believe them?

I believe his point about only receiving suspicion for his vote after DGB died - when I see little that differentiates his presence on the dead town wagon than anyone else on it. Can you fill me in why it is pops who is guilty of this and not others?

[Hoopla]

Funny thing is, though, it's Day 2. I stopped worrying about getting lynched/NK'd after the start of it.

Another thing, good luck lynching me on this page.

Annoyingly, this feels town for some reason. I'm sure his scumpartners would not tolerate such an apathetic team mate.

[Hoopla]

Funny thing is, though, it's Day 2. I stopped worrying about getting lynched/NK'd after the start of it.

Another thing, good luck lynching me on this page.

Annoyingly, this feels town for some reason. I'm sure his scumpartners would not tolerate such an apathetic team mate.

You know he has a record of self-voting before L-1 right?

That's dumb. Does he play like this as scum though? As town, I can understand more wrecklessness, but when you are 1/3 of a team, don't you think he'd have more consideration for team mates, and you know, try? It just seems like a nothing lynch - I'd rather teleport him.

[Hoopla]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1876483
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1894988
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 74#1921474
And another ongoing. All scum games.
(He has also one it twice as town)

Wow. I still think it's be genius to send CSL to the other universe!

[Hoopla]

we don't agree on the scumminess, but we do agree about the antitown play?

Policy is the only reason we can lynch CSL. And sending him is alike sending any lurker we have now. And finally messing with the other universe (although not productive) would feel good.

This is an amazing reason to teleport CSL.


But really, saying a teleport is like a lynch is very untrue. The similarities are they're both removed from your town - but lynches confirm their alignment. Confirming CSL's alignment won't prove very informative, say compared to a pops lynch.

So if we're getting rid of both players, we may as well confirm the alignment of someone that actually did...something. Plus making him Universe Ones' problem will be hilarious.

[Hoopla]

Rhinox seems to be pushing the policy lynch thing.

False, actually.

Hoopla, so you seem to prefer a pops lynch to a CSL one? Why does your vote not reflect that?

More later.

You're right, thanks Ojanen!

Unvote, vote: pops

[Hoopla]

*shrug*

Well, I'm okay with sending pops away.

Unvote, vote: CSL

[Hoopla]

*shrug*

Well, I'm okay with sending pops away.

Unvote, vote: CSL

pops can't send himself away.

Well, you know, if he is scum.

[Hoopla]

Quick everyone pile on Hoopla!

I can assure you that 'slip' came from not paying any attention to this game, rather than alignment knowledge. Slips in general unreliable, as town are just as likely to make daft comments that seem like informed knowledge. How many of you have actually caught scum from a scumslip?

~~

Unvote, vote: pops

[Hoopla]

How many of you have actually caught scum from a scumslip?

*raises hand*

And this one was obvious scum slip. As guess what you seemed informed on scum roles and how they work but not town.............so if your not "paying attention" why would you know scum could teleport them self?

I don't know how to explain my thought process, because it wasn't operating on all cylinders - but I think I was in the mindset that if pops is scum we're sending him away, so we get a win/win - we get a policy lynch on CSL too.

I understand why it looks bad, and all I can do is insist it was an honest mistake. Before speedlynching me tomorrow, at least let me live long enough to provide some reads and analysis with a scumflip, so my mislynch won't be a complete waste of a day. Thanks in advance!

[Hoopla]

Reading through some pops-posts to piece together some ideas! See you all soon.

[Hoopla]

I find that to be incredibly useless, though the easy way of doing it.

Scum is often, esspecially closer to the lynch, very concious about what they are saying. But if you look at the reactions to pops made by others, you might find some people more likely town, and some people more likely scum.

I'll actually most likely resort to some sort of vote analysis.

[Hoopla]

The good news is that the votecounts from the first day are starting to fill up with more green and red names. With a plethora of wagons evolving throughout the day, I think there is a lot of information there. Wagon analysis will be difficult to use after D1, because we have players coming and going, and we have no idea what that set-up. On Day 1 we have 15 players with 3 of them being scum.

My first act in this post is to declare CSL

town

and evilsnail

scum

!

CSL comes under fire often for his nothing-playstyle, and it is very difficult to distinguish from his actions what team he is playing for. He has self-voted and self-hammered as either alignment - the same with lurking and doesn't offer too much scumhunting. I've found the easiest way to figure out who he is, is by others' play toward him, as that connection isn't unreliable.

My first piece of evidence comes during day 2, where pops votes for CSL on page 45. This is an easy policy vote, and it is a good one from a scum perspective - an easy go-to vote, something scum love. You don't have to have justify yourself by going for this sort of target. Many people have been on CSL, so this isn't the tell. It's the fact that a competing wagon on evilsnail is doing well. It gets up to 5 votes before crumbling back to 2. At this stage, on page 48 now, pops also unvotes CSL. I suspect pops was riding out this phase with an easy vote on CSL in the event his buddy's wagon went through to lynch. He knew he had blood on his hands from the DGB lynch - losing a buddy at this stage would not be ideal, especially when pops probably wasn't going to survive along time.

I've also noticed on my coloured vote counts, CSL has not much green names voting for him at any one time, which strikes me as unusual. There are many times where uncoloured names default to a CSL lynch, but it's really only elvis who is occasionally there. Players like Rhinox, Ojanen, Fishy and evilsnail all spend time there. Sometimes three at once. Pops also is there on and off on D1, and I just don't think pops would want to mix himself in with a policy wagon on town.

~~

Farside has very solid voting records so far, and I am getting vibes from
mykonian that mimic the one town game I've seen him play. He seems a little too extraverted and contrarian to really warrant my suspicion right now. But I am happy to put those two and CSL in town squad.

Rhinox and Raskol feel like they have the dirtiest records, often on town wagons or wedged between green names. It feels to me like one of them could possibly be scum. Here's my list so far;

TOWN

Farside
mykonian
CSL

NEUTRAL/TOWN

Gayle
Ellibereth

NEUTRAL/SCUM

Ojanen
Fishy

SCUM

evilsnail
Rhinox
Raskol

NO READ

Maelyn

~~

As for the wagon that's formed on me so far. Farside's justification seems
earnest, but it feels like scum is quite possibly trying to take advantage of my situation. If so, I feel like it would be evilsnail.

Vote: evilsnail

[Hoopla]

Was it good town play by me, mykonian?

[Hoopla]

unvote

. I'm uncomfortable about the way this wagon has gone, and Hoopla's analysis, while not exactly fleshed out, contains a lot I agree with. I need to think about this one, and reread people like Oj and Raskol.

I've seen Hoopla just perform the best scum performance I have seen in many a year here at MS so I'm not quiet let me clear Hoopla right now.
I do agree that evil looks scummy, mcscummerson but don't think for a second hoopla would not bus her scum partner in a heartbeat to look more town.

Being capable of manipulation isn't a case, it's not even a point - and I don't see anything else you've got beyond the 'slip' I made.

I'm really disliking Ellibereth suddenly changing his mind with little to no persuasion needed. I'd be looking at the position of evilsnail and Ellibereth in the event I am lynched, because they are bad, bad votes. Tsk tsk.

Mykonian is being very sensible right about now - and that isn't just because he's helping me with an evilsnail vote.

[Hoopla]

[quote="farside22]
You have been mostly lurking, you replaced a person I found scummy to begin with. We have the slip, which is blantant.
Finally eli is from U2 not this universe saying they are scum together is laughable.[/quote]

I think that is an interest-tell, not an alignment-tell - I can't do anything about Flareonage (whatever he did), and I can't do anything about the slip other than tell you it wasn't scum-motivated.

I never said Elli was scum with evilsnail. I'm saying these votes are the shakiest.

[Hoopla]

Well played scumbags - you took advantage of an apathetic town quite nicely. I had some hope at the end, but as soon as the CSL lynch went through, I realized the town didn't know what it was doing.

8. Please, please, please nominate people for scummies. I love to see players from my games nominated.

Why would you say that? I don't think anyone in this game really deserves a scummy - the quality of game was pretty low toward the end, and nobody particilarly stood out to me as playing a stellar game.