Pick Your Power II - Looks like the wine is gone (SCUM WIN)

[farside22]

Yes, alignments were done by slot.

Just a friendly reminder:

You can send in conditional actions such as "If SpyreX flips scum, investigate Vi. Else, shoot myself"

I didn't get one either and I didn't understand this answer

Did players know their alignment before we picked our numbers?

[farside22]

Thank. Now I can read this game with more understanding.

[farside22]

okay so the theory is that since scum could talk to each other before they picked their numbers they knew what numbers to avoid so they could be higher on the list or at least not pick the same number as a scum buddy.
I looked at the list and there are 9 groups
The top 3 people that didn't pick the same number and the bottom 6 that had the same first number.
The question is would scum use this as WIFOM on the town?
I can't imagine all of them doing this it would mean they would be lower on the list.
...........let me read what people said and I will expand more on this.

[farside22]

okay so a bit of a look on the list and the talks thus far:


Jack votes TM when 2 other people had 1/1 as their number. Plus hoopla did announce in the thread the numbers she picked so........???


Question to TM and Dramonic why did you pick the same number has Hoopla when she stated what her numbers where in the sign up?

socrates

The scum doubled up on one of their picks, mark my words.

I disagree with this. I think maybe at the most 2 people in the scum group picked the same first number but I can't imagine they all did this then the likelihood of getting a PR goes down and why would scum not want to be in the best position for a PR?


Why fos socrates from FeFiFo?

watching the following of the fate wagon 10 to 1 scum is on it. People just gliding by with a bw vote.
*note to self look at bouncy

Jack what is with the single value number. Do you really think numbers picked from scum where 1 - 9 and no higher?

1fifi is right about eli.

vote: bouncy

(gut)

fos: socrates and jack

Just them saying scum would only pick the smaller numbers and soc saying he could see scum doing 2 of the same numbers so as not draw attention rubs me the wrong way.

[farside22]

socrates

The scum doubled up on one of their picks, mark my words.

I disagree with this. I think maybe at the most 2 people in the scum group picked the same first number but I can't imagine they all did this then the likelihood of getting a PR goes down and why would scum not want to be in the best position for a PR?

um, thats exactly what I said, Farside.

Did you think I said that all 5 members of the scum team picked the same X number? That would be madness.

Yeah I did I'm sorry

unfos soc

I should not be reading an analysis while sick.

[farside22]

Hoopla why are you ignoring this group in your number analysis?

Socrates (12,1)
Fate (13,4)
bouncy.bouncy (2,1)
Cobalt (2,10)
RayFrost (4,6)
Redcoyote (4,9)
Jack (7,2)
FeFiFoFum (7,11)

[farside22]

We have a wagon on Fate.
I get that it's most likely that scum are on the single numbers, but that doesn't reduce the list by that much anyway.
I'm curious why you lied about your picks in the signup thread.

Only about the Y number which doesn't count for very much of your chances of a high pick. My tactic was to come in and claim '1' early to scare everyone off it (an assumption based on nobody wanting to sacrifice their own draft position). However, most people didn't understand the system or probably submitted their numbers before reading my post.

Why assume this and not ask the players about it?

[farside22]

Um, Hoopla, maybe I missed something you posted, but why would scum try to spread their numbers? If they pick the same numbers, they aren't automatically roleless. All they need to do is coordinate which

roles

to pick.

slippery slop of wifom. I detect a bit of distancing here and hoping no one notices.

I voted for you because you said something that I don't think any townie with a brain would say.

ORL what was it that fate said that no townie would say?

[farside22]

Hoopla why are you ignoring this group in your number analysis?

Socrates (12,1)
Fate (13,4)
bouncy.bouncy (2,1)
Cobalt (2,10)
RayFrost (4,6)
Redcoyote (4,9)
Jack (7,2)
FeFiFoFum (7,11)

I'm not. I think you're missing the point of that post. I was showing what would happen if we took out the top drafted players (scum won't do that), because it leaves the players I listed before. Which makes potential scumpairs easier to spot.

See my post 100 for a more rounded view of my opinions.

I saw that after. I was responding to each thing I found along the way. Sorry I'm feeling lazy and tired right now.

Why do you assume people sent in their numbers early after you posted that you picked 1 and X?

[farside22]

from the queue line:

Note: The mafia will be able to talk before the draft begins for a period of approximately 24 hours.

This doesn't say they could talk when they picked numbers but after the draft begins. But I think the mod should confirm this for us.

[farside22]

If you /in I will PM you town or scum. AT THAT POINT if you may choose to give me draft numbers.

Or, you can wait until they must be in.

Note: The mafia will be able to talk

before the draft begin

s for a period of approximately 24 hours.

Hmmph

Thank you. I have been sick so finding things and clarification helps.

[farside22]

also I love farside....dear, who should I vote for?

I'm voting for bouncy now and his reason on what a townie wouldn't say is laughable to me right now.

I'll have more for everyone hopefully tomorrow. I'm still not feeling so great today

[farside22]

If Hoopla is scum, then a scumbag was pushing logic that would encourage lynching people at the top of the draft order. What does this tell you about where most of the scum would actually be? C'mon, its not that complicated.

Why do you think that it's unlikely that scum didn't do well in the draft knowing now they got to talk before sending in their numbers?

Since my "group" contains only me, I am supposedly more likely to be scum, and, if you would see, the size of ones group is a direct function of where they are in the draft order

*looks at vote count*

See's fate as the main person with the most votes and looks back at socrates questionably.

[farside22]

Fate's reaction and lack of claim actually looks good to me.
All the number and theory stuff is still going to be ignored.
I don't think Dram is scum. His earlier post about the scum comminication looked pretty honest.
Fefi's bullshit reasoning L-1'ing vote looks scummy as hell.

Vote: Fefi

elli! I agree that Fefi's post is weak along with OMGUS. There has been many people jumping on the Fate BW a few I found with OMG hoopla is right to bouncy's comment that really rubs me wrong on so many levels.

Can I just say Fate's comment reminds me eerily of what happened with EK day 1 last game? (shudder).

On another note: I understand why hoopla feels the way he does. The scum got to communicate 24 hours before subitting their numbers. Why wouldnt' they discuss their numbers to get a better chance to get higher in the draft?
I can also see why a player might pick 14 or 13 as their first number because most people may stick with the 1-9 numbers like they did last game.
Both points are valid and should not be OMG you are scum because you are first type deal.

[farside22]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 12

Bouncy.Bouncy

- 2 - RedCoyote, Farside - (L-10)

Dramonic

- 2 - TonyMontana, Fate - (L-10)

Fate

- 5 - Bouncy.Bouncy, Porkens, The1fifi, Dramonic, FeFiFoFum - (L-7)

FeFiFoFum

- 6 - Rayfrost, Ellibereth, Faraday, wolframnhart, DocPotter, Cobalt - (L-6)

Hoopla

- 2 - Pomegranate, Jack - (L-10)

Pomegranate

- 1 - Socrates - (L-11)

Socrates

- 2 - StrangerCoug, Hoopla - (L-10)

wolframnhart

- 1 - curiouskarmadog - (L-11)

Players not voting: Devotress

Did jack ever answer why he voted for Tony over the other 2 players that picked 1/1?
Why is jack dodging this question in post 18?
Soc even if the scum doubled up on 1 number that doesnt' mean they still wouldn't stick out.
porkens: Why do you think soc is arguing?
FeFiFoFum post 28 seems like fake surprise
Jack post 29 keeps refusing to answer this simple question and turns it around on anyone who does ask

Fate post 53:

Vote: FeiFiFoFum For speculating/voting about number picking right after Jack pointed out how counterproductive it is...

Does this make sense? Where did Jack point out that it was couterproductive and how is it counterproductive?

@everyone who commend that number speculation is useless. Now that we know that scum could communicate before they picked their numbers how does it not make sense that number specualation has some value?

@RedCoyote in regards to post 73: Tell me why would scum not want to communicate their number picks?

Lets not forget bouncy post 104 saying he voted for fate for something no townie would say and that was: Hmmm... Any scum want to claim and tell us?"

RedCoyote post 140: Feels like a 180 degree turn from post 73

Jack post 153 his interpertation of Wolf's post looks like a big stregth on what was actually said.

Scorates post 152: I find this post a bit idk what a good word is but soc seems to change his mind almost about what scum would do and bases this on Hoopla's push to lynch those higher in the line. It almost feels a bit OMGUS

Jack post 154: I reread the game and still see no reason to signal out TM. Geez stall much?

Cobalt why would you go for a hoopla lynch?

Jack post 162: I really want to just smack the guy at this point. Sorry just need to say it. So what if wolf had a theory on your vote should you state your own flipping reasons?

post 173: I think debotress is forgetting that scum didn't know each other before the number pick when referencing the other PYP game.

@POM: Why would you think scum would not check their QT to try and get themselves sorted out on their number picks so they could have a better chance to be higher on the list?

I don't think that there is that much to learn from draft numbers. I think that scum probably did spread their numbers out, but CKD brings up the good point that it's likely that not all the scum checked the QT (or whatever) before submitting numbers. We can't learn much from the numbers now. Possibly later in the game- we'll see.

Wow and a contratiction all in the same post

Um, isn't there every reason scum want to pick different numbers? Like, say, to get PRs?

I really hate people that keep saying this:

Everyone wanted to be highest on the draft. Scum did too. I agree with the numbers 1-1-1-1-1 and 1-1-1-2. Scum did know what their buddies were going to pick- or at least could have known (they only had 24 hours, and I'd bet that at least one sent in numbers before checking the QT). But scum only knew their five numbers (collectively), not the seventeen other players' numbers. I guess this doesn't look like much. But there's something else:

It's like inside information almost on scum

FeFiFoFum: Well post 227 OMGUS post all aboard!!!

I really don't get why fate is voted for dramonic in post 242

Porkens post 263 looks horribly scummy. He wants to FOS everyone for unvoting Fate when he has offered little to nothing this game in leu of the talks or reasons Fate is being voted on.

Hoopla I love you when I say this and I'm not saying your numbers analysis is shit at all but I think we should use a combo of scumhunting and number analysis to find scum. I would like you to actually read the game and point to those you think are scum and why that have nothing to do with the numbers right now.


My scum suspects are bouncy, jack, porkens and most especally pom. Pom and one other person expressed this desire to state that mafia didn't talk during the numbers talk. It's like an inside information into a scum chat that no one but scum should know.
Then she completely contradicts that comment in the same post pointing out that scum would like a top spot. Wishy, washy mmmmmm

unvote:
vote: Pom

fos: bouncy, Jack and porkens

[farside22]

Cobalt why would you go for a hoopla lynch?

numbers talk should've waited till after we have some flips.

How does that make hoopla scum?

[farside22]

Does everyone know who my account was before my ban? This is my account after my ban is up. You should all know that bandwagons are pointless on me if you know what my origin is.

Oh dear God.
*shudders*

Even knowing that do you even want to respond to the fact there is a case on you and it's not people just saying sure them me jump on that BW there.

[farside22]

peoples comments about fefi

you said you were putting him at L-1 because you didn't get his initial vote on you which is an OMGUS, but a weak one if that, also just because you didn't get his initial vote for you, you put him at L-1? You also state it was because you didn't get what he meant as "according to plan" yet after your vote you didn't push the subject or try to build more of a case.

Also you never voted Soc, you Fos'd him for picking first.

Fate's reaction and lack of claim actually looks good to me.
All the number and theory stuff is still going to be ignored.
I don't think Dram is scum. His earlier post about the scum comminication looked pretty honest.
Fefi's bullshit reasoning L-1'ing vote looks scummy as hell.

Vote: Fefi

elli! I agree that Fefi's post is weak along with OMGUS. There has been many people jumping on the Fate BW a few I found with OMG hoopla is right to bouncy's comment that really rubs me wrong on so many levels.

Also I think your comment about how high you were on the list felt fake but that's just a feeling.

[farside22]

There's way too many good lynches out there.

Pom-wanted me to claim
Dramonic-Noted earlier
FFFF-L-1 omgus (what the hell do you mean bandwagons are useless on you?)
bouncy.bouncy-doesn't want to contribute except BWing me

I think Pom is in the lead, but these should be looked at as well.

Is that it on Pom or is there more? (Yes, I still haven't looked back yet)
Happy with both fefi and dram, disagree about dram.

Pom backtracking and some comments that seem to indicate scum QT talks.

[farside22]

Yeah I see. Read farside's wall last page.

Vote: Pom

Sorry for the wall. I have had to reread this game many times because of the number talks. I get what hoopla is going on about but it does overtake the game and leads to many people jumping on BW's that just look like eager people wanting to get out the top people.
Although Hoopla's logic is sound I would use some of what was said later in the game and not vote for fate/Soc just because they either got damn lucky no one else picked those numbers or scum that communicated and got damn lucky no one else picked those numbers.
So in short I'm looking for scum and reminding myself of the 9 groups that are there in the back of my head.

[farside22]

@Pom here is the contradiction:
If scum want to pick different numbers to get PR then saying that there is nothing to learn from the draft number is a contradiction.
Your also saying it's likely that not all scum checked the QT but then again back to the second post they want high numbers so it benefits scum to check in.
Unless a player is out of town I don't see scum missing out on this discussion

Also, if it's so likely that Socrates and Fate are scum, why are you voting me? You're following my logic (of voting someone you find scummy, not entirely based off of numbers), not your numbers logic.

Did you even read my post 338?

[farside22]

okay hoopla lets try this from what I can figure on the numbers end for a moment.
As we stated there are 9 groups. We know that there are 5 mafia in the game.
On the off chance that all scum members picked a different number there is a less then 50% shot of scum being in one of those 9 groups.
Now me I'm factoring in this luck. Odds of people picking a number. Soc picking a number as he did makes sense if you looked at the last pyp game. Lots of people picking smaller numbers means picking a number that is 13, 14 or 15 could get you a better shot at getting a top spot. Now could someone who is scum come up with this idea just as well. Sure but do I see anything scummy with fate. No.
Soc on the other hand has been pretty indignate on the whole idea even though he admits that scum may double up on 1 number. He seems to rant and rave about this idea more which is someone I have an eye on.
His whole lets lynch hoopla because this could be a scum ploy and they may not have gotten high on the list is looking might OMGUS after he agrees that scum could communicate and get their numbers straight to get higher on the list.
As for Fefi and Ray there is one other person that picked the number they did. I expected, even though I never played with the guy, Ray to be more vocal then he has. Fefi well he's using meta for not wanting to respond to the pressure.

[farside22]

I did not say that we can't use the numbers to our benefit. I said that they shouldn't be our primary mode of scumhunting. K?

you did where?
Why are you voting for hoopla exactly? I read your comments and there isn't much there that explains the reason for your vote.

[farside22]

@pom: Why was your vote on Hoopla exactly?

[farside22]

In ITT we spam for no reason......wait I thought we were playing mafia.

fos: ray

for distrancing conversation that has no realation to playing mafia.

[farside22]

I just got back last time from my trip. I need to read what I missed while I was away.

[farside22]

So it seems no one bothered when lynching FFF to see he was on V/LA when he was rung up the flag pole to be lynched. That wagon so looked scum motivated.

[farside22]

That is not a hammer. Please hammer.

Why was a hammer asked for when FFF not only on V/LA but no claim had occured?

[farside22]

I'm currently not in support for the bouncy.bouncy wagon.

The logic of 'scum could've pushed the wagon just as easily as the one they did' is terribad.

As we are seeing (and saw), bouncy.bouncy is submitting virtually nothing of value... continually.

To contrast, fefifofum may have eventually at some point been of use and started scumhunting.

So fefifofum being lynched would be superior.

Even if scum could just as easily push one lynch over the other, you have to consider the benefits too. Stop making me do smart posts. It ruins the 'lol he fails' meta on me. >.>"

This makes no sense to me. Can you explain this better.

[farside22]

That is not a hammer. Please hammer.

Why was a hammer asked for when FFF not only on V/LA but no claim had occured?

I didn't care about either.

Vote: Elli

Why?

[farside22]

That is not a hammer. Please hammer.

Why was a hammer asked for when FFF not only on V/LA but no claim had occured?

I didn't care about either.

Vote: Elli

Why?

Makes no difference. When you want someone dead you want them dead.

looking at your post and reasoning for FFF looked like you were just looking at lurkers to lynch.
What was your thoughts on TM after his vote and lurking?

[farside22]

@Elli: What is your thoughts on the players voting for FFF that pushed it to lynch while the player was gone but jumped off of Pom and bouncy?

[farside22]

Farside why are you voting Elli?

What could a claim possibly have done? We were deadlined and there was no guarantee he'd be back to claim + the chances of being able to start a new wagon was also pretty much non existent.

First that push at the last minute on FFF looks completely scum motivated.
He was on V/LA which everyone ignored and pushed on a wagon based more on lurking then actual scum hunting
Second someone wanted a hammer on a player without asking for more from that player looks completely scummy. Elli pushed for it more and I'm curious why people were like lets forget pom and push on this wagon for no flipping reason what-so-ever.

[farside22]

Socrates

Elli is so amazingly full of townie-ness that if anyone even considers voting for him they should be barred from playing mafia for the rest of their life.

Farside

Vote: Elli

<.<

Aren't you the helpful one. Will you actually idk actually have views on players today or continue your comedy routine?

[farside22]

First that push at the last minute on FFF looks completely scum motivated.

He was on V/LA which everyone ignored

and pushed on a wagon based more on lurking then actual scum hunting
Second someone wanted a hammer on a player without asking for more from that player looks completely scummy. Elli pushed for it more and I'm curious why people were like lets forget pom and push on this wagon for no flipping reason what-so-ever.

What gives you that impression? I personally didn't care that he was on v/la, in fact I'd considered the posibillity it was tactical in order to prevent his lynch.
But if he wasn't going to be around then why hold up? Plus the fact he had 10 days or w/e before that to contribute and did absolutely nothing.

So was Pom but people willingly(?) jumped off that wagon for another. It makes no sense and it makes me see Pom as more likely scum in this case.
Eli pushing for FFF over pom, makes me think scum with Pom.

[farside22]

Socrates

Elli is so amazingly full of townie-ness that if anyone even considers voting for him they should be barred from playing mafia for the rest of their life.

Farside

Vote: Elli

<.<

Aren't you the helpful one. Will you actually idk actually have views on players today or continue your comedy routine?

Really? and who are you to judge what i have done? much more than you, i believe.. just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there

Lets see I have 10 more post then you. I have made a case on Pom and I'm not following players to the point of active lurkering like yourself.

[farside22]

Lets see I have 10 more post then you. I have made a case on Pom and I'm not following players to the point of active lurkering like yourself.

True, but quantity differs from quality. And for someone to do reads, it takes someone to fish for reactions.

the only person I saw fishing was fishing for you when there was a BW vote against you yesterday that started with cobalt.
What fishing have you attempted? Or do you mean the let me follow everyone else because I have no desire (read scum motivation) to put a case out.

[farside22]

That is not a hammer. Please hammer.

Why was a hammer asked for when FFF not only on V/LA but no claim had occured?

What would you have done?

Does everyone know who my account was before my ban? This is my account after my ban is up. You should all know that bandwagons are pointless on me if you know what my origin is.

I was here when that happened my vote didn't change.

Oh look fifi follows more then a dog. Does he get treats too?

[farside22]

I was here when that happened my vote didn't change.

Oh look fifi follows more then a dog. Does he get treats too?

Yeah, and he can smell scum.

You either have a bad sense of smell or miss sarcasm by a long shot. Either way your following of others is noted but I'm sticking with Eli and Pom till I'm happy with my answers.

[farside22]

Lets see I have 10 more post then you. I have made a case on Pom and I'm not following players to the point of active lurkering like yourself.

True, but quantity differs from quality. And for someone to do reads, it takes someone to fish for reactions.

the only person I saw fishing was fishing for you when there was a BW vote against you yesterday that started with cobalt.
What fishing have you attempted? Or do you mean the let me follow everyone else because I have no desire (read scum motivation) to put a case out.

this isn't about who is best. is about who is town.

It's about doing what is best for the town.
Following others and not coming up with your own points it s big fat indicator of scum in my book.

[farside22]

If we

vote: bouncy.bouncy

, aren't we effectively killing off the 2 group? This might be an added reason to consider this vote.

Fate is on the money though. I think the scum used the deadline pressure to their advantage well, when the bouncy lynch could've been just as easy.

I'm currently not in support for the bouncy.bouncy wagon.

The logic of 'scum could've pushed the wagon just as easily as the one they did' is terribad.

As we are seeing (and saw), bouncy.bouncy is submitting virtually nothing of value... continually.

To contrast, fefifofum may have eventually at some point been of use and started scumhunting.

So fefifofum being lynched would be superior for scum.

Even if scum could just as easily push one lynch over the other, you have to consider the benefits too.

Were people ditching one player over the other in this case?

[farside22]

You either have a bad sense of smell or miss sarcasm by a long shot. Either way your following of others is noted but I'm sticking with Eli and Pom till I'm happy with my answers.

[farside22]

I have to disagree with RayFrost. The wagon on bouncy wasn't any closer then the wagon that was on FFF.
from one page it went from 2 votes on FFF to 9 votes;

Bouncy.Bouncy - 3 - RedCoyote, Faraday, Fate - (L-9)
Cobalt - 1 - The1fifi - (L-11)
Dramonic - 1 - TonyMontana - (L-11)
Fate - 3 - Bouncy.Bouncy, Dramonic, FeFiFoFum - (L-9)
FeFiFoFum - 2 - Rayfrost, wolframnhart - (L-10)
Jack - 1 - DocPotter - (L-11)
Pomegranate - 2 - Socrates, Farside - (L-10)
Socrates - 2 - Hoopla, StrangerCoug - (L-10)
The1fifi - 3 - Cobalt, Porkens, Devotress - (L-9)
wolframnhart - 1 - Jack - (L-11)

Official Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 12

Bouncy.Bouncy - 3 - RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Porkens - (L-9)
Fate - 3 - Bouncy.Bouncy, Dramonic, FeFiFoFum - (L-9)
FeFiFoFum - 9 - Rayfrost, wolframnhart, Faraday, Hoopla, The1fifi, Ellibereth, Jack, Fate, TonyMontana - (L-3)
Jack - 1 - DocPotter - (L-11)
Pomegranate - 2 - Socrates, Farside - (L-10)
The1fifi - 2 - Cobalt, Devotress - (L-10)

Players not voting: curiouskarmadog, Pomegranate

TM is definately the worst offender when it comes to jumping on a BW to vote for FFF. Redcoyote and faraday were both on bouncy before moving to FFFF. So if bouncy isn't scum I could see those who were on the bouncy wagon jumping onto the FFF wagon to give it the fuel to go.

[farside22]

TM is definately the worst offender when it comes to jumping on a BW to vote for FFF. Redcoyote and faraday were both on bouncy before moving to FFFF. So if bouncy isn't scum I could see those who were on the bouncy wagon jumping onto the FFF wagon to give it the fuel to go.

This. Bouncy's flips gives us major insight to the jump to the FFF wagon. We can look into RC, Faraday, TM, etc... And if bouncy flips town we can see their moves as townish (If they were scum they would've stayed on bouncy, as he was the most ideal mislynch in terms of draft order.)

This doesn't make sense. Why would scum stay on a scum wagon for a mislynch? Yes I know the bussing term but scum can go from one wagon to the other with the ease of a lion watching it's prey.

[farside22]

I don't get how you're confused.

If bouncy flips town, I would've expected scum to stay on the more likely power role. This means the first few to switch the wagon (Wolf, Faraday) are more likely town than those who pounced on later.

Oh I thought you were saying anyone who switched over from bouncy to FFFF.

[farside22]

I just want to keep this info someone where so I don't have to go to each page looking for it.

Fate - 10 - Hoopla, Ellibereth, Cobalt (town), Bouncy.Bouncy, Porkens, Devotress, The1fifi, Socrates, Dramonic (town), FeFiFoFum (town) - (L-2)

vote: Bouncy

fos: Pom and the1fifi

I really don't get bouncy town. I saw his comment when he voted for fate and reasoning. He has then used a ATE technic (in my view) and has done next to nothing this game but lurk. He was nom'ed for a scummy which means there should be more input from this person.

[farside22]

Vote Bouncy.bouncy

Contribute or dieeeee.

Claim or die more like it.

A thought: for claims in the future (and now), if they're vanilla town, I think it's wiser if they don't claim what role they tried to get. Or at least, someone this high in the order anyway. We don't want scum figuring out where specific roles lie.

That high in the order I can agree with but last game we found the information from the VT's helpful later in the game and it kept scum from lying about their role.

[farside22]

A role cop definately helps the scum more then the town. The scum already know their own pr's and would love the info of a role cop.

bouncy: I don't see how you can just glide by in this game without a POV. It's not difficult to read people's post and go by what you believe scum would do/say and post from that.

unvote:
vote: Pom

need I say more on Pom?

[farside22]

A role cop definately helps the scum more then the town.

In a standard game, but in this set up scum allready know where all the best town roles probably are.

Confirming a player to have a role is awesome for scum. But I don't believe scum would pick this as a high priority but this does not give bouncy a free pass to not scum hunt.

Also I would like to hear from bouncy on who he picked and why.

[farside22]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Bouncy.Bouncy

- 5 - Fate, wolframnhart, RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Faraday - (L-5)

Pomegranate

- 3 - Socrates, Porkens, Farside - (L-7)

Rayfrost

- 2 - Hoopla, Ellibereth - (L-8)

The1fifi

- 1 - Bouncy.Bouncy - (L-9)

wolframnhart

- 1 - Jack - (L-9)

Players not voting: curiouskarmadog, Devotress, DocPotter, Pomegranate, Rayfrost, The1fifi, TonyMontana

Bullshit.

Your vote stays on me all day, and you don't even investigate me? If you thought I was scum, wouldn't you want to see if I had a scum role to back it up?

Hoopla's theory sounds about right. I could definitely see him using a lower down's role in order to protect himself (the better PR).

You also ADMIT that your role is next to useless in PYP. Why the hell did you choose it with #3 slot?

And then you ADMIT you randomly choose your night target.

Hoopla, you unvote after saying "lol town is afraid to lynch power roles." Look a single number just claimed a BS power role, and you let it slide? Definitely looking worse and worse.

FOS

Devo, Farside, Hoopla, for unvoting.

Actaully this is a very valid point about bouncy I didn't think about.
He randomly picks Ray for no reason but stated suspicion on fate throughout the day. So why not check out fate.

[farside22]

If there is a town doc they should just protect ray right now. I have a feeling I already know where this claim is going.

unvote:
vote: bouncy

answers are required at this point.

Ray I suggest unless you have some really good info just don't claim. I may have to hope for a town JK for the night but a doc would be much better right about now.

[farside22]

Are you suggesting bouncy fakeclaimed Role cop? Now that would take some balls.
Might as well get a read on Frost and have him claim first.

No. Your right if bouncy is scum then scum has the info already.

[farside22]

curiousity makes me ask this but I just saw this role was possibly in the game:
Neighborizer wrote:
Each night you may send me two names. These two players may then communicate outside the thread. You may send your own name as one of the names.

Has anyone chatted with anyone outside the game yet? If so did you get any info or feel for the person you chatted with.

[farside22]

curiousity makes me ask this but I just saw this role was possibly in the game:
Neighborizer wrote:
Each night you may send me two names. These two players may then communicate outside the thread. You may send your own name as one of the names.

Has anyone chatted with anyone outside the game yet? If so did you get any info or feel for the person you chatted with.

Blatant rolefishing says what?

Not really if that role is in play I find talking to another player outside the game gives more information then multiple people chatting all at once.
If your town you grill the person you chat with. You find out their thoughts and feelings on things. It's actually a very usful tool and information to the town.
Besides it's not that I"m asking the person who could have this role to claim. I'm asking if anyone chatted outside the game and their feel on that player. The neighbor is not necessarily doing the chatting.

[farside22]

The neighborizer should totally target me.

srsly, tho.

rolefishing is rolefishing

vote: farside

How is it role fishing? I'm not asking for the person who is the neighbor to claim. Sure everyone knows the role is in the game, but if 2 people already got targeted then 2 people already know the role to be in the game and chatted.

[farside22]

Errr no.
A neighborizer would almost definitely have targetted themself and someone else. :/

*shrug* maybe

[farside22]

Rolefishing is worse than roleouting?

Shouldn't you be on the bouncy wagon, Ray?

he hasn't claimed my role.

then again, he's prob scum, sooooo...

should I claim with results or what?

If you think bouncy is scum you should be voting him. I'm theorizing on talk with players outside the game. If the neighbor is in the game and using it on himself/herself then I retract the question. I hope they grill the hell out of people if they are in the game.

[farside22]

Bouncy did indeed unvote fate but voted for 1fif. So why not check fif?

cool story
now vote fifi

cool post
now vote cobalt please

Unvote Cobalt

Vote Fefi

sorry -.- like the 5th time this happens last 2 days

Cobalt and fifi are distancing, with fifi bandwagoning. I don't see why else fifi would beg for Cobalt to be lynched and then suddenly switch her vote to the person who now has the most votes

unvote Fate
vote The1fif

[farside22]

Bouncy did indeed unvote fate but voted for 1fif. So why not check fif?

Why check fifi?

Why do random.org?
At least it's someone you have some suspicion on. Not some random oh look who I just happened to pick reason.

[farside22]

Did I miss something from Ray from here or you talking about earlier when he voted for me fate?

unvote, vote: bouncy

your explanation is good enough.

[farside22]

Goddamnit guys, bouncy is such a VI...do you really think scum would actually say they used random.org???
I was probably just as bad in some of my first games on the site...

What other thing could anyone say for checking out a player that makes no sense as town?

[farside22]

Goddamnit guys, bouncy is such a VI...do you really think scum would actually say they used random.org???
I was probably just as bad in some of my first games on the site...

What other thing could anyone say for checking out a player that makes no sense as town?

I don't think it was a bad investigation...Ray was in my scumlist...
But he probably would make up an excuse if he was scum, Ray was unreadable to him, or something like that...
Bleh I dunno, my gut fully believes bouncy is town.

He's been playing poorly all game and doing no scum hunting and giving excuses to not scum hunt.
He hasn't posted any suspects and instead states he did random org for checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

[farside22]

I know he's playing terrible...it's just that I also think he's town. :/
Whatevs...I doesn't look like I can stop this lynch. Can we please have the wagon on wolf tomorrow?

What's the case on wolf exactly?

[farside22]

checking a person he never could say he was suspicious about.

For the third time, could you tell me why this is a problem?

And if you're going to say the same thing as Socrates, read my reply to him.

Checking a player even as a role cop should be someone you think is scum. They could lie about their role or if someone claims they were RB'ed or someone says they tracked another player instead of having the player who is the actual tracker claim you know who that player actually is and to say that scum doesn't like is a fallacy. With a game that has a probability of some roles not existing it is easy to fake claim a role.

[farside22]

vote comparison time:

FeFiFoFum (town) - 12 - Rayfrost, wolframnhart, Faraday, Hoopla, The1fifi, Ellibereth, Jack, Fate, TonyMontana, RedCoyote, Cobalt (town), Dramonic (town) - (L-0)
Bouncy.Bouncy - 8 - Fate, wolframnhart, RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Faraday, Farside, Rayfrost, The1fifi - (L-2)

I don't believe RF to be scum. I saw the breadcrumb and his comments and I never felt he was scum. If bouncy is town then those on the FFF wagon and bouncy wagon could be pushing for the mislynches. As typically you can find 1 to 2 scum on a town lynch.

I may have to go in this direction now.

unvote:
vote: Wolf

@bouncy: Seeing my point about how best to use that ability don't you think it's best to now look into a player you think may be scum so you can trap them later and stop with the "random" shit. I don't quiet believe you tbh but it's possible you are just a VI.

[farside22]

@bouncy: Seeing my point about how best to use that ability don't you think it's best to now look into a player you think may be scum so you can trap them later and stop with the "random" shit. I don't quiet believe you tbh but it's possible you are just a VI.

Did you not read my response to you?

You told me the benefits of investigating somebody. You did not tell me how the benefits of investigating somebody whom I think is scum outweigh the benefits of investigating somebody whom I do not think is scum.

I still do not see how investigating a player whom I think is scum is any better than investigating a random player. Try spending a little more time explaining it to me logically since I'm such an idiot and I need logic to understand any criticism in this game.

Seriously why would you think investigating random helps you at all? I just explained what scum could/may do in my post and what you just ignored it or something?

[farside22]

Seriously why would you think investigating random helps you at all?

Seriously why would you think investigating people I think are scum helps me at all?

I just explained what scum could/may do in my post and what you just ignored it or something?

Um no, I read that. I would freaking love to investigate people who ARE scum.

What I don't understand, however, is how I am more likely to investigate people who ARE scum if I investigate people who I THINK are scum.

WHY WOULD YOU RANDOM INVESTIGATE A PLAYER! WHAT WOULD BE THE FUCKING POINT IN DOING THAT!?

I'm sorry for the caps but I'm finding it difficult to keep civil.

[farside22]

If you suspect someone is scum, then you should gather every info you can on that person. So, if they claim to be cop, but you investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, you have a proof that they are lying.

I said this already. He either not getting it or he's scum just faking ignorance at this point. I can't decide.

[farside22]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Bouncy.Bouncy

- 8 - wolframnhart, RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Faraday, Rayfrost, The1fifi, Porkens, Hoopla - (L-2)

Pomegranate

- 1 - Socrates - (L-9)

The1fifi

- 1 - Bouncy.Bouncy - (L-9)

wolframnhart

- 3 - Jack, Ellibereth, Farside - (L-7)

Players not voting: curiouskarmadog, Devotress, DocPotter, Fate, Pomegranate, TonyMontana

WHY WOULD YOU RANDOM INVESTIGATE A PLAYER! WHAT WOULD BE THE FUCKING POINT IN DOING THAT!?

As I said before, you asking "why" instead of answering "because..." just proves me right.

If you suggest that I should pick who to investigate based on certain criteria, there should be a

reason

for using those criteria. If you can give no

reason

, then your suggestion is derived

arbitrarily

and there is no "FUCKING POINT IN DOING THAT" either.

Thus we have two choices, both of which there is no "FUCKING POINT IN DOING". So you can't tell me that it is better to choose one over the other.

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

[farside22]

If you suspect someone is scum, then you should gather every info you can on that person. So, if they claim to be cop, but you investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, you have a proof that they are lying.

I should gather every info you can on

every

person. If

anybody

claims to be cop, but I investigated them and found out that they are for example vanilla, I have a proof that they are lying.

I realize now that the fact is that I am the one thinking instead of you.

Does anyone understand what bouncy is trying to say here?

[farside22]

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

God, you people are always so sure of your scumhunting skills. Your argument destroys the exact reason that you play mafia.

If somebody is so fucking obviously scum, why the hell would I waste my investigation on them?

unvote:
vote: bouncy

i'm done

[farside22]

Are you saying you can not read a thread and figure out who is scummy based on comments made in the game?
Are you saying you can't determine for yourself people that are riding bw, offering next to nothing in the game, doing anything remotely scummy in this game?

God, you people are always so sure of your scumhunting skills. Your argument destroys the exact reason that you play mafia.

If somebody is so fucking obviously scum, why the hell would I waste my investigation on them?

no one said obvious scum! don't you even have a suspect? serisously.. After a whole day you had no one tou suspected? Don't bullshit me. You are scum playing the "i dont know any better" thing.

I had suspects. Fate and then you. What do I get out of investigating you

that I don't get out of investigating somebody else???

So, if they claim to be cop, but you investigated them and found that they are for example vanilla, you have a proof that they are lying.

You know what scum get for "random" investigation. Information about a player that is town, knowing that players role and killing said role (unless scum got a rb ability) then rb that role.

[farside22]

So basically from what I'm gathering. You want to so called "random" investigate. Not make any scum hunting known, and some how believe this is all town motivated and not scum motivated?
Plus you think that random is better for some inane reason that you have yet to explained over looking at players you think are possible scum and frankly people are pretty blunt on who they think is scum at this point. Who could be forced to claim with a push but you still want to do random when the only person random would help is scum.
Did I get this correctly? Please show where my logic fails.

[farside22]

I explained why having someone you think is scum and why to look at those who you believe to be scum is better.
I even explain why scum would want to look at someone that isn't scum (obviously it wouldn't be them) and what the bennift to scum are for this.
Do you just ignore this and keep harping that random is equal to looking at someone you believe to be scum. I mean really what bennift does town get for you knowing someone's role? Answer that for me.

[farside22]

I've done it. It's been minimal, but it's something and that's how I usually play.

Where did you scum hunt and why did you not investigate fate if you thought he was scum? He was close to lynch. You could see for yourself if he had something worth hiding. So far your random choice makes no sense in this case either.

[farside22]

I'm intrigued by the possibility of a wolf wagon, but I don't think it's going to happen. Not sure what farside is doing here.

unvote:wolf, vote:bouncy

I like to argue. It's my nature if you recall to do so.
I think deep down I wanted to see if I was wrong about boucy and he was a VI.

[farside22]

Vote: Socrates

[farside22]

7 groups are now here. 5 scums are to be found. There could be 1 within each group or 1 that doubled up.
Socrates (12,1)
Fate (13,4)
Jack (7,2)
StrangerCoug (3,1)
The1fifi (3,7)
wolframnhart (3,7)
Devotress (8,3)
Porkens (8,9)
DocPotter (8,10)
Ellibereth (1,2)
Hoopla (1,1)
TonyMontana (1,1)
Farside (6,3)
curiouskarmadog (6,12)
Pomegranate (6,4)
Faraday (6,4)

[farside22]

@Everyone : i'd like to hear your toughts on tony montana. Consider this as really important please.

No existant and most likely lurking scum.

[farside22]

Socrates is town. Wolf needs to be wagonned. NOW

Vote: Wolf

I would ask why you think this but I don't think I will get an answer.

unvote:
vote: wolf

scum list: wolf, jack, soc, tony, pom.

[farside22]

Why is the vig scum?

Why would the vig shot redcoyate?
If it is soc it makes no sense as he has been after pom for 2 days now.

[farside22]

Only thing that makes sense is scum bussing.
But I don't get a vig kill on Redcoyote and if soc is the town vig why is he actively lurkering or did he put his action in the day before?
It's things like that I just don't understand.

[farside22]

You know last game colbalt town picked first and picked the vig.
Giving the scum a second kill is too awesomme for words. They get to not only kill X player of their choosing but another player that is town. Sure sign me of for that as scum any day.
Double kill every day with scum is just too tasty for scum to bypass.

[farside22]

Socrates is town. Wolf needs to be wagonned. NOW

Vote: Wolf

Why is socrates town? Wolf needs to be lynched, but if scum has the vig that's our priority. So we need to look at the top of the draft. Actually,

unvote

Let's wait until someone claims to have tried for vig and failed. If no one does or they are way down the list it creates the possibility that scum went for it on a low pick. In that case wolf is the best lynch.

psst there is no sk this game and only mafia. There should be a vig. Now if your asking for a VT to claim to have tried to grab that role to determine who may have the role higher up it's a no brainer that it should be one of the top 2 players because if it got further then that I would be shocked.
Also town or scum being first pick to and not choosing vig would be crazy.

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: Pom

I really wish we had not forced soc to claim. I'm surprised he didn't take vig and now I have to wonder who has it as Fate has been giving me town vibes all game.

[farside22]

hahahahahahaha

Unvote, Vote Pom

Farside and Faraday are also now both town!

I think wolf is still scum. 1fifi just climbed up the list as scum. Jack is on my scum list if wolf is town. Just that feel I get reading his post. Devo just moved up my scum list. TM is not moving off my scum list either.

[farside22]

Part of why I can see devotress scum with Pom here early on.

@Rayfrost, bouncy, and because I wasn't on the internet for a bit over a day now.

vote bouncy

Reasons: ISO6, and weak excuse for joining the fate wagon.



The case on pomegranate seems off to me, though I can't comment on cobalt's "she's playing like scum pom", since I've only played one game with pom where she got replaced very early.

[farside22]

Elli why is faraday town? She never voted for Pom during the day 1 discussion.

[farside22]

Porkens 1 liners and promising to read is on my scum list as well.
I may understand why eli may think faraday is town but if I'm correct on the reasoning I would say it's WIFOM. I'll let eli say his reasoning though.

[farside22]

Pom, Wolf, Devo, Tony, {fifi?}

This looks about right, with you being more certain on Fifi, and maybe throwing in (CKD?)

I was thinking about CKD on my read back. I want people to remember it's possible that scum doubled up on one number. As much as pom lynch takes a 6 away doesn't clear anyone who picked 6 as well.

[farside22]

Porkens 1 liners and promising to read is on my scum list as well.
I may understand why eli may think faraday is town but if I'm correct on the reasoning I would say it's WIFOM. I'll let eli say his reasoning though.

I NEVER promised to read.

Sorry it was you stating that Pom was saying she needed to reread. My mistake.

[farside22]

I think all those saying they are waiting for Pom and missing the fact she is posting elsewhere is just sad.
She is scum. If soc is lying he is scum. If he's telling the truth he is most likely dead.
You people are driving me to drink.

[farside22]

I think all those saying they are waiting for Pom and missing the fact she is posting elsewhere is just sad.
She is scum. If soc is lying he is scum. If he's telling the truth he is most likely dead.
You people are driving me to drink.

Soc should have been an easy lynch. Also

scum list: wolf, jack, soc, tony, pom.

I think wolf is still scum. 1fifi just climbed up the list as scum. Jack is on my scum list if wolf is town. Just that feel I get reading his post. Devo just moved up my scum list. TM is not moving off my scum list either.

fifi, jack and soc. I had 3 scum listed through most of the game. sadly no one ever listens to me.

[farside22]

I think allowing the scum to talk about roles and numbers pregame hurt the town a lot. There has to be a middle ground on this issue.
I really liked the idea of trying to figure out which scum may have picked number wise but the scum got the best roles do to communication.

[farside22]

Note: I do need to find the right balance to limit because watching the scum strategize pre-game was one of the better parts in my opinion.

I'm just not sure what the right balance is - part of it still that gets me is vig slipping that low; I consider that a first tier ability that should have been double-picked (like cop in a setup with no counters) before 7. Definitely over role cop and probably over tracker as well.

I think a SK would have been nice to have in this game given that the scum had not only their own kill but the vig kill.