Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[DeathRowKitty]

/unnaturally fast confirm

[DeathRowKitty]

Flare's avatar is kind of cool. It really suits him well.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, and I approve of the aforementioned plan. Almost forgot that lol

[DeathRowKitty]

Your avatar is a serious turn off, it hurts my eyes.

Think you're too cool for fractals?

[DeathRowKitty]

@Ellibereth and Flareonage
Is this avatar any better?

As for Lowell's comment, I would assume the teleporter would agree to it anyway. Whether the teleporter likes it or not, that plan is probably our best use of the teleporter.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, that would require having a good idea of someone who's mafia, in which case we should be lynching that person instead of teleporting.

Then again, I can see the logic to that. Our goal is to win this game, not the other and as long as we can scumhunt more effectively than the town from the other universe, a trade like that would benefit us. It would also produce some healthy competition between the two towns and it would probably be more in the spirit of the game.

I'm really fine with either plan. We do have to get the other universe to agree to it though.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm happy with leaving the decision on who to teleport to the teleporter. At the very least, not knowing who's going to be teleported makes it harder for the scum to decide on a NK.

For example, let's say the teleporter was going to teleport scum to the other universe. Scum might decide to NK him to avoid it. Or maybe one scum is already in the other universe and the teleporter is about to teleport another. Scum might decide to switch their focus to the other universe.

Plus, scum have the power to have a decent influence on a vote, without revealing too much information through voting patterns, since we won't know the alignment of teleported players until later on.

Basically, I think it's better we just let the teleporters do what they want.

[DeathRowKitty]

Quoted because mykonian said to quote it:

Healthy competition between universes is good? JC, capitalism in mafia games, and it rings no alarm with anyone.

Seriously, what you are thinking about will do no good. Teleporters are no vigs. Esspecially since both towns are probably about equal in strenght, the teleportation is unlikely to get all the mafia out of one universe into the other without the other universe sending them back.

Randomly, the teleportation will have very little effect. We send and they send, and both towns will not benefit. Screwing them over will just screw us over too. Because we will be screwed: using this tactic it forces the towns to reread the other universe, it kills arguments based on scum-interactions, and the new player coming into this universe is forced to reread the whole game. A lot of information is lost, and all the mechanic does is confuse.

Plum is right: scumhunting will win the game. Town, by definition, wins by helping each other, playing together. In this game this is no different, even across universes. Please someone quote this in the other universe.

the strategy I propose: (for clarity)

no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention.

Further, no universe would have to worry about the amount of scum and scumteams.

The teleporter=vig strategy only works during endgame, where it is the last action made (winning or losing the game afterwards).

[DeathRowKitty]

extra information supporting this strategy:

if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!

I disagree. 12-3 mountanous would favor mafia. Even with the mason, it's probably balaned in favor of mafia. The teleporter is meant to be a positive pro-town role. Not teleporting means we lose whatever advantage it was meant to give the town.

I don't support the no teleporting idea.

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 1 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 1 ) DeathRowKitty
Ellibereth ( 0 )
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
Jahudo ( 0 )
Kairyuu ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 14 ) animorpherv1 Anon DocPotter don_johnson Ellibereth Elmo fhqwhads Jack Jahudo Kairyuu Kise Lowell Maelyn Nicodemus
Total ( 15 )
With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Vote: don_johnson

because quite frankly, who wouldn't?

[DeathRowKitty]

Unvote, vote DocPotter

It looks to me like he's just trying to push his agenda with no regards for the points actually being made. The teleport scummy players option has grown less appealing since he joined in on it.

I think we have a better option though (and the other universe will hate me for suggesting it (actually farside hinted at it)). Our universe seems to be moving faster than the other universe. We can come to a concensus for a lynch faster and thus teleport more frequently. Ya get ma drift?

It would put us in constant competition with the other town, but it would also probably give us the best chance of winning.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not what I meant. I meant we could lynch faster than the other town and send players there faster than they could send players here >.>

Basically, we could send them scummy players faster than they could send us scummy players.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, I would like to point out before someone brings it up that lynching faster doesn't have to hurt us. We're posting frequently enough that we could arrive at a lynch more quickly without a drop-off in the quality of lynches.

[taunt]Besides, we're cooler than Universe 1. This is the perfect way to show it. [/taunt]

[DeathRowKitty]

@Elli
Do you find Maelyn scummmy? I don't really see anything she's done as worse than a null tell.

[DeathRowKitty]

Voting Kairyuu is ridiculous right now

,even though he bored us all with a long strategy discussion

.

[DeathRowKitty]

I’m waiting to see if he’ll elaborate on his claim that Doc is the worst offender for pushing agenda and not regarding positives of other strategies.

Originally, he seemed to me to be really trying to force the issue, moreso than simply trying to argue an alternative. TBH, I'd forgotten my vote was on him (I've been in an odd state of mind the past couple of days).

Unvote

. I no longer think he's scum. His more recent posts have been coming off to me as him genuinely arguing for an alternative he thinks is better.

@DeathRowKitty: Why did you single out Ellibereth? What do you think of the rest of Maelyn’s wagon?

I singled Elli out for the same reason I asked in the first place: this post. I figured that warranted an "Is your vote serious?" post.

I think the Maelyn wagon was a good thing to have in this game out of the RVS, but it's not something to bring to a lynch or a claim. There's just no substance behind it.

I don't see anyone on the Maelyn wagon as particularly scummy, considering that, despite having almost 8 pages of posts, we've had little discussion from which to discern alignments. Basically, I'm of the philosophy that bandwagon=good. Heck, even Maelyn supported this one for a while.

---

Vote: Lowell

for this:

Honestly the biggest problem I see with kairyuus plan is the teleporter wont' WANT to do it. Being teleporter seems like it would be fun.

It looks to me like a subtle jab to try to take down a plan that was at the time viewed as the town's best option without actually expressing disagreement with the plan. Basically, an attempt to stop Kairyuu's plan without it seeming like he was the one trying to stop it.

[DeathRowKitty]

57- DRK doesn't want to direct the teleporter [-, odd, given his latest objection]

How is that odd? My objection to your post isn't that you didn't want the teleporter to claim; it's that it seemed like you were trying to subtly derail Kairyuu's plan.

Based on the discussion going on at the time, directing the teleporter would have been bad.

[DeathRowKitty]

@pops, Universe 1
Flare is very unlikely scum.

@Flare, Universe 1
Was that OMGUS? O_O

If those were random votes, then, well, get out of the RVS. There's been legitimate scumhunting on Gayle and Raskol. Comment on it or something.

[DeathRowKitty]

@pops, Universe 1
No, I'm not claiming that. Nice rolefishing though

[DeathRowKitty]

Is this post not scumhunty enough for you?

[DeathRowKitty]

Starbuck didn't mention me in her catch-up post. Now I is sad.

Anyway, I'm kind of just waiting for Lowell to pop back in and address what I said. Other than that, I might do an iso or two today and see if anything jumps out at me.

[DeathRowKitty]

And I'm still comfy with my vote, awating Hayle's better post.

We don't need you to be "comfy" with your vote. You may as well have just said you're sitting on an early game vote for the hell of it.

This post, which is too long to quote without ruining the asthetics of this post, makes a lot of sense. [Obligatory "I'll get to it later" comment]I would definitely like to take a closer look at him.[/Obligatory "I'll get to it later" comment]

unvote Because that vote was for lolz during the RVS.

I think Anon is looking for an easy target.

That post looks bad to me. It looks an awful lot like either a chainsaw defense of Elli-scum or an opportunistic attack on/cheap jab at Anon. The fact that he unvoted his RVS before it looks like he was trying way too hard to say, "Hey guys, I'm serious about this," as if he had a stronger motive in bringing it up than just to make a comment about someone's play.

What makes Elli an easy target? I see a legitimate case on him, even if it was easy to find.

Yeah, this.

@Lowell
When you come back, comment on this? Please?

[DeathRowKitty]

Not so loudly, please. They might hear you.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Lowell
Your comparing

apples and oranges

teleporters and masons.

I objected to your post on the basis that you were trying to take down Kairyuu's plan. My statement that we shouldn't direct the teleporter is when we were considering a completely different plan, where directing the teleporter would most likely be suboptimal.

I'm hot and bothered about this because your lack of comment on it clearly means you hate me.

---

I agree with Jahudo on pops. Pops is currently obv-scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

[Frustrated with computer for eating two partially written posts]

On another (semi-related) note, I don't like the Jack wagon. He's obv town.

You're at least the second person to say this (I think Elli said it earlier), but I don't get it. What makes Jack so obv-town?

Because clearly we are not keeping up with the partner universes.

FOS Myk

Talking to/scumhunting in the other universe - good
Not getting someone's point - bad, but null
FoSing someone for a point as stupid as this - bad and probably scummy
FoSing someone in the other universe for a point as stupid as this - very bad and definitely scummy

It's as if he just wants to look like he's scumhunting and picked something directed at our universe to respond to. The fact that he nitpicked on something this small is really a stretch, regardless of whether or not he believes it. In addition, I find it scummy that by attacking Myk over this, he's practically trying to broadcast that he's reading the other thread, which just sounds like a ploy to look good.

Ok, so fossing the other universe is a bit much. But if you take into account the chance that he could end up here in this one ...

Justifying what he did without being asked. He realized it looked bad. Also note that what he gave was a justification (a rationalization even) and not a valid reason.

This makes sense, unvote:fhqwngads

Although I do find "we need to do this" statements are things scum like to say.

Unvoting with a disclaimer. That always sets off an alarm with me. "I'm unvoting you, but you're still very scummy!" makes it very easy to hop right back on with a vote if a bandwagon forms on that person.

A first. If B is using something obvious (like your case) then B, because he's not actually scumhunting.

Not really game relevant, but it's bothering me. C is scummiest, hands down.

Anywayz,

vote: DocPotter

. Join the bandwagon!

[DeathRowKitty]

Posting this in All...2 of My Games

Sick today. Keeping up with the thread, but I don't really feel like posting. I'll have plenty of extra time to post tomorrow if I feel up to it. If I don't post tomorrow, consider this an announcement of LA.

---

@DP
I would never have guessed you were Annachie. Just wondering, did you intentionally change your playstyle?

[DeathRowKitty]

The appeal to meta thing is usually kind of scummy, but I see nothing wrong with using it as a last effort to avoid lynch.

I asked if DP had changed his playstyle because this isn't how he played as scum IIRC.

Unvote

for now. I'll take a look back at his scum meta tomorrow if I feel like reading.

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 1 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 5 ) Lowell Ellibereth Nicodemus Jack fhqwhads
Starbuck ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 2 ) Anon DocPotter
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 3 ) Kairyuu Elmo Starbuck
Jahudo ( 0 )
Kairyuu ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 5 ) Kise Maelyn animorpherv1 Jahudo DeathRowKitty
Total ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

I'm a firm believer in meta on players for which it applies. Normally, I would see DP's actions as scummy, but this isn't the meta I remember from Annachie-scum. Speaking of which, I'll get around to checking on that within the next hour.

Also, I'm a bit erratic with my vote from time to time. Live with it.

[DeathRowKitty]

Brief meta complete. I'm now pretty confident on DP-town.

Annachie-scum was MUCH more submissive than DP is in this game. He was much more careful not to do anything that would create waves. The one time he did, he even posted in the QT (we were neighbors in that game) to say he might have gone too far.

He's been much more reckless this game. He was hardcore and relentless on Kairyuu for bringing up plans he felt were suboptimal, whereas he was more cautious going after Elli for suggesting a policy lynch in the other game.

Basically, I don't think we're dealing with Annachie-scum. (Besides, Annachie-scum was possibly female, whereas DocPotter is obv-male. Clearly not the same person.)

[DeathRowKitty]

Annachie was never labelled as a female. He was male, but everyone called him "she".

Either way though, how submissive or aggressive you are isn't something that gets changed easily unless you're specifically trying to screw with your meta, since it's very much a subconscious feature of your play. I highly doubt that DP was so intent on changing his meta that he intentionally decided to play more aggressively. It's just not that easy.

[DeathRowKitty]

@jahudo- After reading 301 I actually think it's more likely DRK is trying to buddy up to DP-town than distancing from DP-scum. Something about that post makes it look like he's trying hard to win an ally and set himself up as indespensible if we end up lynching doc.

unvote, vote drk

I'll go along with that.

unvote:dp, vote:drk

Lowell, err, no, Jack, explain why you think my post sounds that way.

@Lowell
After Jack's given his reasons, I want to hear yours.

Also, has either of you actually bothered to read Annachie's scum meta?

---

Just a heads up, I have a fairly busy couple of days right now. I might be able to post tonight, but if not, I won't be able to until tomorrow evening.

[DeathRowKitty]

No. Other mason shouldn't claim. Last thing we need is a potentially confirmed townie dying too early, especially with the great decisions we can clearly expect from our teleporters this game.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'd rather you form your own suspicions before I give my own.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, these elmo votes are about the biggest bag of fail I've seen since Doc Potter.

This. Anyone voting Elmo hasn't been reading his posts. There's just no case on him besides lurking, which is true of half the game at this point.

There is, however, a nice case on Jack. I'll even take a page out of his book and make a case Jack-style:

Case on Jack

Vote: Jack

[DeathRowKitty]

Hello and welcome to this edition of Who's Da Scum! We have 3 lovely contestants today! And heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere they are!

Our first contestant votes haphazardly and without reason and he's STILL waiting for one to really stick. He disapproves of optimal town strategy

and likes getting stuck in the rain

. From Scummy McScummerville, Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

Our second contestant hails from a faraway universe in a dragon-guarded castle. Don't worry about that though; he thinks you're town! Please welcome Ellllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

Our third contestant is a real active lurker. He's 95.7% noise, 4.3% half-hearted scumhunting, Aniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, and I've been kepping up with the other universe. I haven't been reading it that closely though (I would have to reread most of the thread if I were ever teleported). Pretty much all I know about Plum is that she lurked a lot. I remember seeing a couple of long posts from her, but that's it.

[DeathRowKitty]

Dont lynch without me again!!!

Oh, wait, I'm already on this wagon.

Someone have a hammer? (Also, not that it matters, but Jack, claim.)

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, and I'd pick A(TREE(TREE(g64)), TREE(TREE(n(4)))) for that question. The functions involved should be self explanatory and g64 is Graham's number.

[DeathRowKitty]

Claim.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, I mean he kind of already claimed, but I guess claiming scum doesn't count?

[DeathRowKitty]

death row kittie: not much to swing me either way. Nothing jumps out. I'll put

her

him in the townie pile.

Apparently that's only the 8th time someone's messed up my gender. I could have sworn it was more.

I'm not going to claim with 6 votes on me day 2, when half of them are random bs votes.

Well, if you're going to be fair about this, another one of my posts contained a bit of reasoning. Plus, you claimed scum. What other reasoning could anyone possibly need???

[DeathRowKitty]

This is like starbuck 2.0. Why don't you tell me how I misrepresented mykonian? How many confessions have you seen on day 2 with everything up in the air? At worst you could say I was wifoming.

How often have I see someone claim scum day 2? I'm not sure I'd seen it happen until today honestly.

Also, I don't get the WIFOM part.

[DeathRowKitty]

I bumped drk up for being annoying.

I feel so loved!

Vote: Jack

:goodposting:

[DeathRowKitty]

My scum predictions from day 2

Sooo, ummmmm, yea. Apparently one of them was off. One dead, one gone, one left.

Vote: animorpherv1

We can has ani wagon?

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK seems off to me. He is using his scumlist from yesterday to vote for Ani, but only because one of the people on his list was Elli. I didn't get why he put someone in the other universe on his scumlist yesterday, but now it just seems opportunistic, as it allows him to get by with only being suspicious of two people that matter instead of three. I could even see see his scumlist falling into the "1 in 3" rule, where Elli is the scum but since he's hidden in the other universe DRK can avoid attacking him outright.

Well, Ani hasn't gotten any better since I made that post. Seriously, iso him. Very few of his posts have any relevance to scumhunting. Here's a

summary

scummary of those that do:

• He calls Anon out on going after an easy target in Elli. His reasoning for this was very weak and looks to me like a chainsaw defense of Elli.
• He jumped on the DP wagon because it was the largest.
• He threatened to hammer Jack, but never actually joined the wagon. Reeks of scum not wanting to be part of the mislynch wagon.

[DeathRowKitty]

Ughhh. This is getting ridiculous.

Mod, please prod animorpherv1 if you haven't already.

[DeathRowKitty]

1. If you agree your attack on Anon was weak, then why did you continue to go after him for several posts?
2. "Im fine with either lynch, and ATM, I think DP has more votes."
3. Yes you were

[DeathRowKitty]

1 and 2. You have nothing, therefore you make a mountain out of a molehill? o_O

3. You'd just threatened to hammer someone after his next post and yet you didn't think to check the thread while you were online? Welp, that sounds believable to me.

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 3 Vote Count

animorpherv1 ( 2 ) DeathRowKitty Anon
Anon ( 1 ) fhqwhads
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Starbuck ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 2 ) Nicodemus Lowell
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 1 ) Plum
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) animorpherv1 Elmo Starbuck Kise
Total ( 10 )

With 10 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 28th 5:00 EST

All of which is just an excuse to unvote, vote fhqw, which I've felt the urge to do for awhile now. His condescending defense posts are weak, he's put nothing into any of his attacks (all against basically easy or lurking targets), and in ISO he reads even worse.

I don't see how that's any better than Ani. His attacks (actually, attack, singular) was horrible and he admits he only went with it because he had nothing better (a.k.a. he's done no actual scumhunting, while trying to appear to be scumhunting). His defense is pretty meh and in iso, he just looks like he's active lurking. [Note: I haven't actually iso'd fhnoiwehfaew. I just can't see it being any worse based on what I've seen of Ani.]

@Ani
Okay, here's what I don't get: you make a post in which you threaten to hammer Jack if he doesn't claim in his next post. Jack is actively posting at the time. You then ignore this game, post elsewhere on the site, and leave?

You had no intention to hammer Jack. Your threat to hammer was completely empty. This just adds more weight to my accusation that you were trying to distance from a townie lynch. You threatened to hammer to look a part of it and then left to avoid being on the mislynch wagon. Scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

I

am

was in another game with Ani and he replaced out with the same exact reasoning, so that's probably not a tell. Just saying.

I'd still like to see him lynched though.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, wow, fawfawefasdklfa is at L-1. Right now, all I have on him is a weak gut scum read on him, whereas we have solid reasoning on ani. Then again, a weak anything read is more than I have on some people in this game.

Roughly my order of "I want to see this person lynched"
animorpherv1
fhqwhads
Kise
Nicodemus
Starbuck
Anon
FeFiFoFum
Lowell
Plum (if she's scum, she's likely to be dealt with by one of the scum teams)

Also, irrelevant, but there's a typo in the following rule:

7. There will be a quicktime for the dead.

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK, what is your case on ani?

All the stuff I posted on him in the past few pages. Is it really that hard to look back?

[DeathRowKitty]

He active lurked through all of day 1 and made one admittedly weak case that he really tried to stretch. Towards the end of day 1, he voted DP because he had the most votes of the main wagons and towards the end of day 2, he stayed off of the Jack mislynch wagon entirely, except for an empty threat to hammer.

[DeathRowKitty]

Aaaandddddd...why did you vote fhqw?

[DeathRowKitty]

Hello everyone. Whats goin on in dis here universe?

We're lynching ani's replacement. Wanna help?

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: ani

. Definitely the best lynch candidate we have.

Ffff is quickly rising in scumminess though. Lowell's WIFOM aside, ffff has no joined two wagons with no reasoning and seems to have barely read the game, if at all. Bandwagoning people that look like they might be lynched without knowing what's going on=bad.

Starbuck did rise a notch or two in scumminess for her hammer, but I'm actually going to invoke Lowell's WIFOM here. Knowing fjaslkghasf would flip town, I would expect scum to at least make a hammer look good. Too scummy to look scummy, I guess? Meh, it was still scummy, but whatever.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well there's really not much to say until ani comes back or ffff responds.

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 4 Vote Count

springlulaby ( 3 ) Anon fefifofum DeathRowKitty
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
fefifofum ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 5 ) springlulaby Lowell Kise Plum Rhinox
Total ( 8 )

With 8 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 15th 11:00 EST

EBWOP: until ani's replacement checks in

[DeathRowKitty]

66. Sounds like mafia teleporter to me. Because myko's sortie is really good actually. Emphaszing the good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power= preparing confusion about teleport?+++

Plus #66 was a really bad post I don't see either vanilla or town teleport making.

extra information supporting this strategy:

if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!

I disagree. 12-3 mountanous would favor mafia. Even with the mason, it's probably balaned in favor of mafia. The teleporter is meant to be a positive pro-town role. Not teleporting means we lose whatever advantage it was meant to give the town.

I don't support the no teleporting idea.

I'm almost not sure if you're serious about this one. Myko's idea was horrible and following it would be almost a definite loss.

128. Probing other for sure footing? Do not like. +++

@Elli
Do you find Maelyn scummmy? I don't really see anything she's done as worse than a null tell.

Once again, I don't get it.

186. Do not like. Changing angle when attracting attention is scummy or lazy town. +++

-Link because it's too long to quote without ruining the asthetics of this post-Once again, I don't get it.

Also,

46. Changing of avatar. Noise post. +

...what?

[DeathRowKitty]

1. Regardless of strategy, Myko's 'sortie' is protown motivated to me.
2. His plan is not as dramatically bad for town as you make it sounds like. Playing this game like a vanilla game is 3 mafia against 12 townies, with two confirmable townie. It is balanced, it would just be a vanilla game, less fun maybe, but playable. You are also ignoring the fact that playing this game with no teleportation allows for one confirmed townie any day.

At any rate, my point here is not to discuss strategy. I wouldn't like to play without teleportations, it would feel cheap. My point here is to highlight the fact that, out of nowhere, you felt the need (in the underlined paragraph) to point out that the teleportation is meant to give an advantage to town, without explaining why or thinking it through. This is what I call emphasizing the good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power, and used to the mafia's advantage.

I think this is an unlikely position from either vanilla townie or town teleporter. It may be closer to a town teleporter's stance, wanting to play his role, but I have a better guess as to the town teleporter's identity.

1. But it was wrong. Just because it was pro-town motivated, I shouldn't have been arguing it?
2. It's still balanced in favor of mafia. Probabilities in Vanilla Setups. Whether or not those numbers are right, they're a good start. 12-3 vanilla is definitely not balanced. 10+mason+replacable confirmed townie-3 is closer, but what if the mason gets killed? It's bound to happen eventually. Just adding a confirmed townie into an unbalanced setup doesn't automatically balance it and it doesn't balance this setup.

Do you disagree the teleporter is a useful pro-town role? If you had been posting the same conclusion I did, what would you have said instead?

At that point in time, Maelyn's position was weak due to repeated lurking and noise post, I consider your #128 as typical mafia approach to trying to multiply cases and tension without seeming to participate in it. And in this doing, trying to garner more possible mislynch target.

Haylen always does stuff like that early in the game and I seem to recall hearing that Maemuki does too. Maelyn wasn't scummy. I said so in my post. How was I "multiply[ing] cases and tension" with that post?

In post 186, what you are doing is changing your vote when it is starting to attract attention (from Jahudo if I remember correctly). This is either really lazy town who update their positions only when called to attention, or mafia's appeasing tactic. I think it is the later, because you were quite careful to keep activity up in meantime.

Originally, he seemed to me to be really trying to force the issue, moreso than simply trying to argue an alternative. TBH, I'd forgotten my vote was on him (I've been in an odd state of mind the past couple of days).
Unvote. I no longer think he's scum. His more recent posts have been coming off to me as him genuinely arguing for an alternative he thinks is better.

Unless you want to argue that I was lying about being in an odd state of mind, I don't see what you're trying to say here.

At that point in time, early in the game, your post was not only noise, it was super noisy due non scum-hunting motivated socializing. And changing your avatar because other people don't like is just bleh to me.

Socializing is scummy? I figured it was time I changed my avatar anyway.

Question here: why are you not replying to my remarks in chronological order? I trust that you are aware that early comments are bound to be less serious and damning argument.

I only had around 5 minutes to respond to everything, so I picked the things with + signs next to them.

Aaaand I'm out of time.

[DeathRowKitty]

Re: balance

Since you mentioned it, I just ran a simulation on my calculator. I assumed the following:

1. Lynches are completely random. Well, except for rules two and three.
2. If the mason was going to be the lynch, the mason claimed and someone else was lynched.
3. I was too lazy to program in two people who would claim and not be lynched, so I excluded the possibility of the teleporter being considered as the day's lynch at all. Considering optimal play for scum may or may not be to wait to kill the teleporter until the night before lylo anyway, this shouldn't be too big of a deal.
4. An outed mason was automatically NKed that same night.
5. Scum have no teleporter. I was too lazy to program one in.

Now, remember, the way I ran the program is better for town than the actual setup. I ran 700 trials. Scum won 419 of those, which is just under 60%. Unless I missed something in my assumptions, this is clearly scum-favored with no teleporters.

To your last question which is beside the point: my point is I think it is unlikely town would have wanted to put emphasis on the potentially good outcome of a power when it can be a mafia power.

You see, you still fail to provide an explanation on why you think teleportation is intrinsically good for the town, yet you are quick to defend the use of that power. And that is why I think you are likely the mafia teleporter.

I brought it up because it was true. The teleporter helps town. That's why his plan was bad. Why should I not have brought that up?

I didn't explain why it was good because I thought it was obvious...the net effect of the teleporters is to trade scummy players that neither universe has to worry about and that could split up the scum teams and force them into competition.

Ok let assume your question was motivated by previous meta knowledge. Then let me ask you, did you expect Elli to have the same meta knowledge than you did? If so please evidence it by links.

Meh, the meta part was just part of my disorganized response to your question (a.k.a. something I should have put at the end of my response to you instead of the beginning). Maelyn's play was null even without any meta knowledge.

Are you saying that you were a lazy town at that point in time? Forgetting your vote on someone like that?

Fine, if you want to call it lazy, then yes, I was lazy. I lost track of a lot of players around then and not just in this game. Yes, this includes the player I was voting.

Yes, non scumhunting related socializing in early game is very scummy. As is laughing off arguments. Even more so.

Sorry for talking about nonsense with people I'd recently been in games with? I laughed your argument off because it makes no sense.

That doesn't answer the question on why you did not answer my comments in chronological order.

I only had around 5 minutes to respond to everything, so I picked the things with + signs next to them

The point here is, you not doing so is manipulative as by putting my early comment last, you are making it appears as if all of my arguments on you are on the same level of seriousness as my not liking your changing of avatar. It is not.

Once again, 5 minutes. I responded to the ones with 3 + signs first because I assumed they were most important. Stop stretching.

---

Your scumlist looks very familiar. Almost as if I've seen it before. Oh, right, it's the same people voting for you in the last vote count! Weird, right?

Do you think that all three scum jumped on your wagon at the start of the day or was this all just OMGUS?

(I will give you ffff though. Whereas I didn't find Elmo scummy, I have serious doubts as to whether ffff even read the game. He sounds like he's just parotting thoughts from other players with no real substance to his posts.)

[DeathRowKitty]

1 quick question, DRK, how sure are you that I am scum?

Surer than I am of anyone else? If you're not scum, I would need a serious second look at my scumlist.

Meh at ffff's summary of the ani case. Looks too much like it was stolen word-for-word from other people.

SL is definately town.

I followed your logic. It told me I was a giant pink flying elephant.

[DeathRowKitty]

My scumlist from 3 pages ago. Good to know you read my posts so closely.

Move ffff a few spots higher. Maybe move Starbuck a spot lower, but not much important has happened since then.

While you're here, respond to

Do you think that all three scum jumped on your wagon at the start of the day or was this all just OMGUS?

Nothing else from that post was interesting enough for you to respond to?

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 4 Vote Count

springlullaby ( 1 ) DeathRowKitty
Nachomamma8 ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 1 ) springlullaby
Plum ( 0 )
fefifofum ( 2 ) Rhinox Lowell
Kise ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Lowell ( 4 ) Plum fefifofum Nachomamma8 Kise
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total ( 8 )

With 8 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Deadline: March 15th 11:00 EST

TBH, I don't get the Lowell wagon at all. I've read him as pro-town for most of the game. What bothers me more is this wagon sprang out of nowhere very suddenly with SL at L-1. If ever there were an instance of scum creating a wagon to save a buddy, this was it.

I could see a FFFF-SL scum team. I could see SL telling FFFF to bus when he replaced in and I can see FFFF taking the opportunity to get his vote off his buddy by voting Lowell.

Unless someone comes up with some sort of decent explanation as to how Lowell is scummier than SL, I don't see why we aren't lynching her. If/when she flips scum, it has the added benefit of making FFFF almost obv-scum.

Also, did anyone else notice that spring's scumlist consisted of players who were already voting her today?

Your scumlist looks very familiar. Almost as if I've seen it before. Oh, right, it's the same people voting for you in the last vote count! Weird, right?

Do you think that all three scum jumped on your wagon at the start of the day or was this all just OMGUS?

I even brought it up again here and didn't get a response...