Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

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You replaced DeathNote. Flare has plenty to worry about regardless of his alignment.

Anyway, welcome to the game. I'll be nicer so long as you're well-behaved.

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Not at all. You've already posted 2/3 as much as he posted the entire game.

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You can get a pretty good summary of the game by checking the posts just after Snow_White posted in. Several players, including myself, posted little summaries. You might enjoy the read since you enjoy the flavor, but that's up to you.

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It's probably easiest to check the dates when you iso her first posts, then estimate the appropriate page number in the main game. Use the "Goto page" box to jump pages quickly.

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Literally news to me @ Sajin. No longer shall I live in the darkness, etc.

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Couldn't the scum have safe NAME claims?

Yep. Has been speculated.

I'll support SW.

Unvote; Vote: Kise

. Fake DN scumtell, DN ultimately unlikely to have been scum, raiderNobodywagon discredited to an extent.

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My post is gone. What happen?

DTM, are you thinking the stabbing flavor is PZthief's, or what was the source of your concern?

What are you talking about? I don't believe I deleted one of your posts. ~Slicey~

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Also, I don't think Nobody mafia would go after Cobalt aggressively D1 and then shoot him in the face D2.

I am sorry that it hurts peoples' feelings that I am 2-shot JS. I seriously am. But that's who I am.

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Nono, I'm not belittling you for saying as much; other players have mentioned it, too. Rather, I literally mean that I am sorry. But that's the role that I was given.

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I think the only way I could understand someone thinking I was non-town is if they thought I was an SK DKer who was pretending to have only had 2 shots. My interaction with SSK and especially Cobalt make it unlikely that I am paired with either of them IMO.

(Flare doesn't count since he hasn't read the game.)

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If you think there's an SK, what do you make of there only being at most 2 NKs each night?

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I read your post, but I still don't understand. You think the Nobodies just couldn't get their shit together and submit NKs? Or that they are NK-less? How is that balanced relative to their Heartless competition?

And I don't understand why you're excited about Cobalt's death throes. O_o

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Scar's in KHII if I'm not mistaken. That may be why you don't understand his inclusion.

Is Captain Hook really such an obvious choice? Maybe that line of thinking isn't necessarily fruitful.

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Actually, for another step of outguessing -- wouldn't it make for superior parallelism if XIII were the "KH2" villains and Heartless were the "KH" villains? If that were the case, we'd have still-more-reason to believe that raider is lying, since Scar is only in KHII IIRC. [/outguess]

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Hook, along with other members of the evil council, were the main villainous faction from KH1.

My point was that Hook is only slightly less lame than Clayton. There are plenty of interesting Disney villains to go around. (Namely, Maleficent, Ursula, Jafar, and...umm... ^^; )

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maleficent, ursula, jafar, that guy that was evil in mulan, and bob sagget.

Mulan's is KH2 IIRC.

The other KH villains are Oogie Boogie and Hades. So I guess Hook isn't a total left-field choice, even if I personally find him the most boring.

Unvote; Vote: raider

. I'm ambivalent between him and Kise. I don't want to lynch ace for the reason Sajin indicated.

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NB: Hook's selection becomes considerably LESS left-field if Slicey limited himself to KH1 Heartless villains to make up the scumteam. He becomes a little more odd if we include KH2 villains into the roles he could have chosen. So that makes raider's Scar-is-Heartless claim look fishier.

WFH, what does it mean that Scar is a "shadow"? Is that different from being a Heartless?

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I think there is 1 Nobody left. Why do you think I think there are 2?

SW's SK idea is very silly. It is also a little weird that she jumped onto a lame idea someone else had as soon as I supported her bandwagon, and then backed off of her idea, saying that it didn't really fit, as soon as I mentioned it to her. O_o

Case on Kise is "I had a good feeling!"/attempted policy lynch on DN based on admitted lie coupled with PR-insinuating "I'll take responsibility for his flip tomorrow if necessary"/potential slip with "scum would know they are the only threats to the town left," which he retracted, saying that it was an error on his part.

I think DGB said it was because of the VC.

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Well, that's part of your case, right? Kise is protecting raider, which would imply they were on the same scumteam, right?

Uh, no? Why, is that what SW said? I am suspicious of Kise for the reasons I just listed in that previous post.

But come to think of it, Kise preferring DN is only scummy (the fact that he did, I mean; the way he did it is scummy regardless) if raider is scum. So that's all the more reason to prefer a raider lynch to a Kise lynch.

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EBWOP: Oh, I see what you meant. That just meant that the raiderIsANobody train-of-thought had been discredited by a couple of players (DGB, Shotty, etc).

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I never proposed that scumtell, or I don't think I did. I think you misread the post where I was making the switch from raider to Kise.

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Why didn't you mention that before?

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I disputed it when you first brought it up IIRC, unless I'm forgetting some much-earlier time when you brought it up.

Post what I said that made you think I was implicitly proposing it.

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EBWOP: Oh, I see what you meant. That just meant that the raiderIsANobody train-of-thought had been discredited by a couple of players (DGB, Shotty, etc).

Nothing to do with Kise defending scumfriendraider. But K.

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Yeah. It was 2 points against Kise, and then a point that made the raider wagon less interesting.

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Well if im a SK and ive been making kills i would say after 3nobody deaths i would consider them wiped out. >This being main point<

OK, that's a decent point. It still requires some hardcore doctor win and/or nerfed/lazy scum, though.

I thought you were playing with the idea that I was Clayton, SK. That was the lame idea I was referring to.

Ace didn't just insinuate Cop; he out-and-out claimed it. He's said he's a 1-shot Cop who has not used his shot yet. Sajin pointed out that this makes him evaluateable and therefore not the best lynch, and I'm inclined to agree. Even the RB issue is of minimal concern if you think about it.

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I think people had just mentioned that, and then you started up with the SK rhetoric. It was just context; nothing you said specifically. I guess I read too much into it. Sorry. ^^

Oh, you meant regarding Kise. He didn't claim Cop, necessarily, but he did claim secret scumtell. It could have meant a slip based on something DN did in an ongoing game, or it could've meant something related to Kise's role. I'll find the relevant post. -->

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Here's a couple Kise quotes that tell a story:

Vote: Deathnote

He knows why.

If he flips town (lol, he won't) then I'm held accountable tomorrow. Until then, I reject your fishing rod.

If he flips town, I'm held accountable tomorrow. Me and me only. And maybe the bus driver.

It was non-existent.

Are you saying that -- in spite of the presence of reasonable suspicion of other players -- you were pushing a clandestine policy lynch on DN?

Yes, YES MOTHERF**KERS, I wanted to teach him a lesson and manipulate everyone into lynching his skulking ass. He's dead already to this game.

There I said it!

GAAAAAAAAAHAHHHUKUJHAKSJDHJKSDABNJK@#!IIUQ!@)(LKAN

There are leads suggesting raider could be a Nobody. I'd rather get to the bottom of that instead of carry out my dickheaded plan.

And yes, I would have still accounted for DN if he flipped town.

Policy lynching before lylo is a damn good reason. Take tubby in the Webcomic theme game for example (which I'd consider gameover via the hints posted). I haven't updated my wiki in a very long time, but that game was one of my earliest on site. I'm pretty sure I [town] just lost that game because there wasn't enough focus of ridding the lurkers early. All that damn work over months of playing and stalling and the scum win in 3-player lylo because town didn't deal with a "question mark."

Anyway, that totally wasn't a rant. Priority should be to take away possibly the last Nobody to eliminate the number of nightkills. I'm still looking at raider. How 'bout you?

So, that should give you an idea of what my case is based on. It may or may not be better than raider. But I think it's better than ace.

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Also -- Sajin made a Die Hard allusion in the middle of all that. Is that a board meme or something? It went over my head.

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I love Sajin. Literally the scummiest town player ever.

He's not very scummy this game, though. He is probably scum, then. Except that he's DiZ.

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Nothing else fits the flavor. It's not like I'm infallible. I thought you were Namine.

DiZ is Ansem. The real one, not the one that Riku is or the one that is Xehanort's Heartless.

For fun. I should probably stop, though.

Anyway, DiZ could be any of several alignments IMO, so it's not like I've given him a fancy fakeclaim in the event that he is both scum and someone-else-not-DiZ.

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I'VE HAD IT IN MY HEAD FOR LITERALLY 80 PAGES AND CANNOT RESIST OK.

I lack self-control.

Let's lynch raider please. Or Kise.

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It felt so good when I did it the last time, and nothing bad seemed to happen. Umm. Except that RF posted an elaboration as a joke and then Ace literally claimed it. But I forgot about that part. ^^;

Ya, it was dumb. <_<

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Can we lynch someone before I start speculating on someone else, or else could someone indicate what we're waiting for?

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Sajin is clearly obsessed with JRPGs, so the probability that he has already worked out a similar fakeclaim if he is scum is high. But RF/Flare are right; I shouldn't have done that. Mea culpa.

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Aladdin and Beast are party members in the original KH, too, if I'm not mistaken. I know Aladdin is. The wiki implies that Beast is. It's true that I'm only in KH2, though.

If I'm not mistaken, the Mod has indicated that this game includes events from KH through KH2, and that it includes CoM. It does not include the 3242343/32432 Days or whatever or Birth By Sleep.

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Captain Hook isn't in KH2 if I'm not mistaken.

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Unless I'm mistaken, that's just Sajin. I think he believed he had to make flavorful posts early on or they'd be censored, but it turned out that he overestimated how flavorful they had to be at first.

There was a mechanic D1 where players had to type "I'll help you!" to get Sajin out of his ModVoice post restriction. My guess is that those are just random players he chose. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude.

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It's actually a good catch that those two players happened to have high-profile roles, though. I hadn't noticed. No idea whether it's a coincidence or implies knowledge of the set-up.

Actually, that made me. Think of something. Which of those two players offered to help first?

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"Simply concentrate on it with all your heart, and you need only say the word to summon an ally who will help in times of need."

!

COURAGE!

I just noticed this in the process of checking. People who know the flavor -- does this exchange mean anything to you? It appears to mean something to Gorrad.

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Can you think of a Nobody who would be in the Void or whatever like that? I had been thinking DiZ because he was put in the Void or something by his apprentices, but I don't know how he gets out, so I was mostly just making it up.

Looking back -- I was toying with the idea that Sajin is an initially unaligned summon (maybe Neutral Survivor) who knows the scumlords' identities. The first player to summon him/help him recruits him for the game. That's what the COURAGE bit looks like to me, but I don't really remember KH that well.

Gorrad is the first to type COURAGE, and he's the first to type "I'll help you." Plum is the first to type "I'll help you," in bold, though. So this could kinda go either way depending upon how mechanics work out. However, Sajin joining the Nobodies D2 would fit with Gorrad recruiting him. It would also explain why Plum died N2. She had been under a lot of scrutiny as potential scum before that.

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To clarify, he knows Xemnas and Sora. Not just the scumlords.

I understand that that is HEAVY on the speculation. But I figure Sajin's well is already poisoned, anyway, and I couldn't help but think about this when you mentioned the two players Sajin singled-out.

The problem with the idea is that the Heartless are out of the loop. Or Maleficent/Xehanort's Heartless (whichever) is a player Sajin isn't fond of.

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There's no post. I just think that if a role like the one I'm postulating were in the game, I would expect all factions to have access to it. It's possible that it could be balanced other ways, but all-access seems like less of a headache.

So, if the role exists, either Sajin doesn't know who HeartlessLord is (so he didn't ask for his/her help), or he realized that HeartlessLord was a player he wasn't as comfortable joining as Plum or Gorrad (so he slyly only listed their names).

The much-simpler-but-quite-low-probability alternative is that he just happened to pick players with high flavor significance.

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No particular phase. We just assumed it when Sajin never posted, but the Mod wouldn't prod him or anything.

I checked Kise's quote, and it looks like it's before anyone helped him. So that does support that it's all a wild coincidence. Could just be that he was just playing both sides, though.

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You're also the towniest scum ever, if WoT mafia is any indication.

What do you mean by "incomplete speculation"?

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Roles are relevant because part of finding scum right now is determining whether or not raider is scum. A major point some have interpreted against him is the claim that Scar is in the game. Flare was trying to determine whether there was evidence from the flips thus far that Scar was highly likely to unlikely to be present. So I think that that speculation wasn't scummy or unhelpful at all.

I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned that about Sajin. I sorry.

Gorrad didn't actually give me the JS safeclaim. He mentioned a bunch of possible scum roles (including Smee!) and voted me, arguing that there wasn't a town gun user. I think someone else did bring up my role before I could claim it, though, in the context of asking what the hell Gorrad was talking about.

I'm reading to lynch raider or Kise. I think both players are reasonably likely to be scum. I am annoyed by all the non-voters who don't seem to want things to get moving AND don't bring up their own conversation topics. Discussion is pro-town, but lagging to deadline so everyone forgets everything isn't helpful.

I think the last Nobody scum would also "tunnel hard" on "finding" the last Nobody scum. That's why DGB's mention of Starbuck is reasonable. I doubt she's Heartless, though, since Plum almost certainly investigated her N1.

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Roles are relevant because part of finding scum right now is determining whether or not raider is scum. A major point some have interpreted against him is the claim that Scar is in the game. Flare was trying to determine whether there was evidence from the flips thus far that Scar was highly likely to unlikely to be present. So I think that that speculation wasn't scummy or unhelpful at all.

I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned that about Sajin. I sorry.

Gorrad didn't actually give me the JS safeclaim. He mentioned a bunch of possible scum roles (including Smee!) and voted me, arguing that there wasn't a town gun user. I think someone else did bring up my role before I could claim it, though, in the context of asking what the hell Gorrad was talking about.

I'm reading to lynch raider or Kise. I think both players are reasonably likely to be scum. I am annoyed by all the non-voters who don't seem to want things to get moving AND don't bring up their own conversation topics. Discussion is pro-town, but lagging to deadline so everyone forgets everything isn't helpful.

I think the last Nobody scum would also "tunnel hard" on "finding" the last Nobody scum. That's why DGB's mention of Starbuck is reasonable. I doubt she's Heartless, though, since Plum almost certainly investigated her N1.

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I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

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This again? Please stop asking for role PM information from people. If they wish to share it that is one thing. Asking for it is a different thing all together. What the hell do I have to type to get you to stop? Please inform me and I will type it.

I didn't start it this time. The question is how to address the already-revealed potential inconsistency. It's not as if ignoring it now that it's happened will put it back in the bag.

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@Iecerint: Is there a question in your role PM? Right before the part where your ability is listed

No.

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@Iecerint: Is there a question in your role PM? Right before the part where your ability is listed

No.

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SW, I understand Kise being scum. That is simple.

(Actually, his ploy today kinda reminds me of his scumplay D1 in Grimm's Pokemon Madness mafia, where he tried to "mistakenly" quicklynch a player, but was caught when someone forgot to unvote. (By some miracle that still doesn't make sense to me, town wouldn't lynch him with me D2 IIRC. Sajin has said that Kise reads town to him, which I find a little odd. I've never played with townKise, so it could be that absurdly anti-town behavior is just a Kise tell. I'd love to see examples if they exist.)

What is less clear to me is why raider is "not our guy." You can play the same game I played with Kise this game and find places where raider has backtracked (most recently the scar-is-in-this-game vs. scar-is-mentioned-in-flavor flip after some discussion pretty much telling him to claim the latter). Granted, it won't be nearly as damning as Kise's case, but I don't see why you're clearing raider.

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That is literally not a good argument. It is WIFOMtastic. This is how it goes:

1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. But raiderScum's team obviously would've made it seem like Scar is in the game!
4. so raider is town.

The simpler interpretation of these facts goes:

1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. raider's claim that Scar is in the game is a point against him.

Also, I think it's inappropriate to assume that raider is necessarily Scar if he is scum. SSK (the only flipped Disney villain) didn't claim the hero associated with his villain (Peter Pan) but rather Mulan.

Alsoalso, even if we accept your more complex interpretation, "cut to pieces" *could* easily be Scar. (Granted, that kind of evidence implies raiderTown rather than raiderScum IMO.)

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Nice Gaga btw. <3

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EBWOP. Eh, maybe you're right, though, on second thought. raiderTown is just going to tell us the truth. raiderScum is more likely to lie about Scar hangin out if there is evidence that he is there. Still, since there may be evidence that he is there, it's not clear that we're not in the latter situation.

OK, fine. I'm nullifying that. But I'm not putting it as a point in raider's corner.

Unvote; Vote: Kise

.

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EBWOPx2: There's still WFH's argument about a decreased prior probability of a player being told scumroles. That's unaffected. Hard to test, though.

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Scum have a motivation not to lynch their friends. Town don't. So, given a circumstance where two players are comparably scummy and one goes down much more easily, that player is more likely to be town.

Obviously, the tell can be perverted if one player is legitimately scummier, but I am not convinced that that is a major concern in this case.

The Kise case is not very complex. Put simply, lying is very wrong, especially when you do it to lynch someone.

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And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

I have to agree with Kise on this one.

Targeting lurker townies like DN is easy, lazy scum play. There's a reason this is what Cobalt did all of D1.

I am sympathetic to players who want to lynch lurkers to make the game more fun, but it is not pro-town behavior.

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You can't have your cake and eat it too. But, keep in mind, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know if DN was town or rival scum. So calling DN a lurker townie could be an inaccurate statement.

1. Who is this directed at? I assume me.
2. It is vacuously true that scum often inadvertently scumhunt against the other team. Not sure what your point is.

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My point is -- in what way does your point alter the validity of my point? Yeah, lurkerhunting scum may find the other team if they're earnest enough. That doesn't mean that scum are pro-town entities. It is also only relevant if you are scum.

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That's true. DN was pretty much null rather than obvtown or obvscum at that time. I think lying to lynch a null player is sketchy stuff.

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If I am my poor scumteam's only kill method, why would I claim to be only 2-shot? Town daily vigs, even town daily compulsive vigs, are not unheard of. [/WIFOM]

Flare could be scum, but there is no evidence of it, except for perhaps the Castle Oblivion business. I'm inclined to believe that he shares an alignment with the other lurkers Cobalt targeted D1 (zwet and DoS, if I'm not mistaken). He could be Heartless, I suppose, but we scarcely know anything about them, anyway, because SSK was the one that flipped.

Policy lynches are scummy -- especially secret ones. You shouldn't lynch players unless you believe them to be scum. You're just giving scum free nights.

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You could use that "question mark" logic to lynch almost anyone in the game.

The proper way to deal with low-activity players is to replace them, or, failing that, to investigate them. Scum are unlikely to kill them, and you're unlikely to get a good idea of their alignment without it.

I'm aware that some players have a difference of opinion with regard to how to deal with anti-town players and to address policy lynches; however, I doubt that many would argue that it is appropriate to insinuate a PR to pull one off. Let's not lose sight of the whole circumstance here.

Refer to Twilight mafia for a game where scum actively planned to work the policy-lynch angle pre-game.

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I would have let him go on indefinitely until we either had no clear suspects (i.e. no players more likely than chance to be scum) or someone claimed a guilty on him. Should note that the former case can sometimes lead to a legitimate early-game lynch.

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Repost the sentence with its paragraph as context and you'll see what I'm getting at.

Since you haven't brought up any examples, I'm guessing you don't have a history of telling lies, white ones or otherwise, as town?

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A lyncher is a 3rd party role who wins if the town lynches a specific rolename while he is still alive. If the lynchee dies in some other fashion, the lyncher (usually) adopts the town win condition. Check the wiki.

WFH's point that raiderScum's lie came out in a way designed to make him look townier whereas Kise's came out in a way that damned him -- when he didn't necessarily have to tell the truth at all -- is a good one. I'm not switching right now for two reasons.

First, it's possible that raider's apparent lie was innocent. I frankly doubt it, but it's possible. Second, Kise has reminded me of Grimm's PMM lately. Granted, that's the only game I've played with him, so he may just be reminding me of himself, but I let the pressure down that game, too, and his team ended up winning.

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Vote: Kise

.

Looks even worse given WFH's flip. (Too Bad. I thought he was scum D1, but I'd started to have nice feelings about him.)

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EBWOP:

Unvotish.

I guess Kise's flip changes matters innit. ^^;

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Those vote counts aren't useful when they're devoid of context like that in my opinion. Do you post them expecting that anyone will actually be able to glean something useful from them?

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Also -- is a large Simba image.

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Could be that he was trying to pull out the real Mickey, but I'm inclined to agree with you given PZ's really lame fakeclaim.

I would be OK with a popcorn-style mass nameclaim. Ability claiming may or may not be necessary or useful.

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Ace needs to say something, too, I imagine.

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Third. However i was right in my hysterics being three killers than two.

I think Kise's kill is fairly likely to be pro-town.

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DTMaster - Dale
Flareonage Deathnote - Jiminy Cricket
DrippingGoofball DisCode - Riku
Iecerint malthusis - Jack Sparrow
ace5993 - Namine

I think that's what we already have.

Shotty to the Body
Hayker
Starbuck fuzzylightning
Sajin
UncertainKitten saberwolf
Snow White My Milked Eek joe478

These 6 remain.

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DGB -- you forget that raider is now confirmed town.

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Sucked into a void was the kill flavour Cobalt spat out on his death bed as the last nobody kill.

1. I had not noticed that. That is possibly a good point. However --
2. Cobalt was the 1st Nobody killed, not the last. ^^;;;;

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Actually. SW, what do you think is the relevance of your observation?

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Only thing I can get out of the VC is that ace looks town (or at least non-scum) on the zwet wagon, and the DoS wagon is conspiculously town-driven. But it had also been D1 for like 80 pages or something absurd like that, so the latter might not be quite as confusing as we would otherwise believe.

Is there a reason you're sticking to D1?

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Another question - if she wasn't roleblocked, and I didn't get roleblocked either, who did? I find it highly unusual that neither of us would be the target of any RB's or NK's.

Ow.

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But regarding yesterdays train of discussion and where it seemed to be going, imho it seems like a nobody trying to off a suspected heartless.

Who specifically are you alluding to, if anyone?

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No, I just meant that I can see where this rhetoric is headed. <_<

Not that I think your point isn't valid.

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Now the scum is probably up to what I'm doing, too.

Why did you make this statement?

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I don't mean "who are you addressing." I mean "who are you talking about."

In other words, who was the Nobody, and which suspected Heartless was he trying to off.

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I thought you were implying that your brilliant scumhunting plans were now compromised. ("Thanks a lot! Because of your dumb question, the scum know all my secret tricks!") This looked dumb (or at least like I didn't know what was going on) because they clearly can't alter their D1 play. But it looks like it was just another reason for your D1 focus, so there's nothing odd about it.

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I'm curious as what you are trying to get at, here.

I giggled a little.

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Now you're trying too hard. <_<

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1. That post was directed at DGB's (intentionally?) hilarious "interesting" theory. Site is slow. It applies to Ace's post, too, though, kinda.
2. New flavor in the kill could account for the lack of an ability like RB being used last night. I could also see RF being RB'd, since he'd been breadcrumbing a PR since D1.

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Don't worry. I've noticed that you're not the only investigative role that has managed to avoid having useful information til now.

Also -- excitement at knowing the answer, etc.

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There's more to it than that:

1. It is odd that you literally claimed the role RF fakeclaimed 1 page after we were joking about it.
2. It is odd (IMO) that you waited this long to use your one-shot investigative ability.
3. It is odd that you were not roleblocked.
4. It is odd that you managed to target one of the 3/13 players whose results would not be useful to us.

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How could you, DGB? You know I hate when town pulls this kind of thing.

Good catch on failing to deliver the goods vis a vie the flavor. That is almost enough to make me go ahead and vote him.

"Discretely" means "piece by piece"-ly.

Given that ace is town, I don't find him being shocked at neither of you being roleblocked problematic. I had the same reaction as a party who wasn't involved. So I don't understand why his incredulity was scummy. Can you show me why it was scummy?

Also, if ace is town, the zwet wagon was literally the most scum-laden wagon evar.

[Iecerint]

A town roleblocker would have almost certainly been discovered by now.

Huh? Why?

I never claimed to get role information, because that would have been a lie. I claimed to get two things: Alignment and Abilities (any actions).

Really? I remembered you claiming more. Did someone just misinterpret that or something?

[Iecerint]

I misremembered that, too -- I think someone thought you said you got the role PM before that or something, and that post was correcting them -- so I could see DGB misremembering.

I agree that her "plan" was dumb, though. You being confused when neither of you was roleblocked is not a scumtell at all as far as I can see. If anything, the scummy move would've been you claiming RB after she had denied it.

[Iecerint]

If anything, I think SW looks worst of the players who have posted so far. Calling DGB an "evil genius" and playing the "dumb blonde" card in this scenario looks bad IMO. But some players have yet to post.

The problem with this theory is that DGB sort of IS an evil genius, so the lameness of her hypothetical pro-town evil plan sort of undermines her reputation. I mean, it's not a problem, but it suggests that DGB is scum, because there is no reason for her to do something so silly as town AFAIK.

[Iecerint]

RF is probably the latter variety (must perish for ability to be used), or he a least claimed as much.

I understood what you meant. My point was that DGB's "plan" wasn't overly clever, so hyping her as an "evil genius" consequent to it looks bad to me. Regardless of DGB's alignment, it looks like you're praising a sketchy-at-best plan.

DTM, you're missing that Ace is Namine and DGB is Riku.

[Iecerint]

I wasn't saying that Ace was town; I was saying that I didn't understand why it was odd that aceTown would be shocked that DGB was not roleblocked given that he wasn't. I mean, we all find it suspicious that ace wasn't roleblocked. Why isn't it suspicious that DGB wasn't roleblocked given aceTown?

Not that there aren't independent reasons to find Ace scummy. (As things are, I'll vote him for the reasons I already indicated and some reasons others have indicated once we're finished with the nameclaims and so forth.) Just that choosing bad reasons to damn someone is kinda scummy.

My flavor speculation on Sajin-the-summon applies, but I'll wait to hear his alternate explanation before I start that. ^^;

DGB, are those based on VCA, other tells, or both?

[Iecerint]

Yeah. I didn't want to open that can of worms yet, since I think Ace is a fruitful place to question.

But. Now that we're doing it. Genie being the ambiguously-aligned one kinda fits the flavor, too. He's taken by Jafar during the fight and Sora has to fight him as part of a multi-part boss IIRC.

The weird part of this is that Maleficent isn't dead, but SajinNobody presumably killed Ursula. So, if Gorrad recruited Sajin, Sajin gave them PlumSora, but not Maleficent. It could be that he wasn't told the Heartless leader, and this is balanced some other way. That would fit with him only calling out for Plum and Gorrad early-game, rather than also a 3rd name. But I'm not sure.

DGB, the probability that I am Blue is literally very low.

[Iecerint]

Holy shit. Fix that, please. ^^;;;

Also, I think Hayker is possibly lying about his claim. There is no one named Aeris in Kingdom Hearts. Her name was corrected to the canon name, which is Aerith, in the Kingdom Hearts franchise. It's possible that Slicey or Hayker messed this up, but it comes up in the bad column IMO.

Quadruple post deleted. ~Slicey~

[Iecerint]

She is. I played it on Hard up to the boss in the first town when I first joined the game, but I kept dying, so I didn't get too far. Aerith was introduced along with

Squall

Leon and Yuffie. She has a weird sexual tension thing going on with Leon IIRC.

[Iecerint]

Wiki says she's in both games.

Are you being naughty, or are the rumors of your death somewhat exaggerated?

[Iecerint]

Something I just noticed in Ace's recent post makes me more confident that he is fakeclaiming, unless Slicey is pulling a Kmd-in-Twilight.

[Iecerint]

Actually, makes me confident enough to check VC and

Vote: Ace

. This makes me the 4th vote at 6 to lynch, so I believe it's L-2. I recently epic failed at manual VC, though, so please check my count before you join in.

[Iecerint]

I did start unaligned! However, the "I will help you bit" and reasoning that you think Gorrad was my master is quite fallacious. I was post restricted from saying what actually helped me. After all, that is not when I lost my post restriction. I can point to one exact post where I joined the game.

This doesn't really make any sense to me, but maybe it'll become clear what you mean after you fullclaim.

Also, Genie cannot kill, cannot make people fall in love, and cannot bring back the dead. Try again.

Good flavorpoint. I'll keep that in mind. Still, maybe people in the Void don't really die, as such, etc.

(You have been wanting to speculate all game and I have been calling you off. Since I am full claiming today, I am totally fine with it now. And my role PM is way too epic to go to waste.)

I think I've only wanted to speculate in any serious way since that epic lag D4.

[Iecerint]

^ Nice breadcrumb.

DGB at first intimated an incriminating track, but then she said LOLJK and said she was RB'd and had intimated the track to gauge reactions. This sorta annoyed me, but everyone else seems OK with it.

[Iecerint]

Aerith is in both games. But "Aeris" is not in any games.

[Iecerint]

I'm leaning towards an ace-shotty team. The reason is based on their name claims and I'm waiting for starbuck before I post why

I see what you mean.

Waiting to hear from Starbuck before I get too excited about determining who fits where.

[Iecerint]

If anything going into a black void is what the organization/riku/mickey/malificent/pete do when they travel from world to world. It doesn't result in the death because it's the realm of darkness, people can survive in there. Riku and Mickey were trapped there for a bit

Hmm. Do the summons have any connection to said void?

[Iecerint]

Some bodyguards die if they try to protect scum.

This is actually a good point. Given the connection of the Void to scum, it would make sense if Goofy was put into the Void having approached scum at night as such. It would also explain why we had an extra kill for (I think?) the first time.

I think people have been arguing that Ursula makes sense for "crushed." Alternatively, Oogie Boogie could be "Cut to pieces." I don't know the Nobodies' flavor very well (never played KH2), so I can't intuit whether one of them is Crushed or Cut-to-Pieces. I think a lot of them use knives and at least one probably uses a maul, so that could account for the flavors, but I literally just made that up.

[Iecerint]

What the hell is a lexicon? Like, he fights with a dictionary?

[Iecerint]

To be honest, the most minor characters are probably Chip and Dale, or at least they're total non-entities in KH1. (I've heard they play a slightly larger role in KH2.) The point of this is that majorness of character may not be a good heuristic. It also goes along with the lack of Donald.

I agree with Flare about ace and shotty, but for different reasons.

The sketchiest thing about Ace's claim is really that someone had (as a joke) already claimed it. His claimed targeting of WFH is also totally bizarro. He also used to make my stomach turn.

Shotty's claim I find suspect for the blend of feigned ignorance about the details of his character (if I'm not mistaken, his avatar is Xehanort's Heartless, the main villain of the original KH, and indeed called Ansem for some time) and intermittent knowledge about DiZ. There seems to be a disconnect.

[Iecerint]

Is there a reason you singled-out Riku specifically?

[Iecerint]

DGB (well, the player she replaced, but let's keep it simple) started the game as Riku, but he was wearing a blindfold. She was given the option of removing the blindfold. She did so, and gained Tracker abilities while also becoming a Heartless Miller. Moreover, if DGB dies, she will flip as a town-aligned Ansem.

[Iecerint]

I am inclined to trust DGB. The reason we know about this at all is that her predecessor claimed Miller just after Slicey posted this really sketchy Mod scene involving darkness and all that. You can check Slicey's iso to read it. The post didn't explain who was responsible for the flavor, but her predecessor quickly took credit for it in spite of players speculating that it was scum-derived and immediately claimed Miller as a consequence of what the flavor represented. (The blindfold flavor came later, after DGB replaced in.) In retrospect, I think that was a pro-town treatment of the circumstances.

Do you find the circumstances suspicious?

[Iecerint]

(I'll admit that she makes me awfully nervous, though ^^)

[Iecerint]

I was under the impression that Sora&Friends didn't recognize Riku at first, until Kaori eventually did, or something like that. I could see it fitting that flavor. Still, I haven't played KH2, so I'm just going off the wiki.

[Iecerint]

I see. That is certainly. Problematic. Probably moreso than Aeris v. Aerith.

Does the fandom call Xehanort's Heartless Ansem sometimes? Maybe that could explain it in the same way that Slicey could conceivably have written Aerith as Aeris.

When you read that ModScene, what did it make you think of?

[Iecerint]

I think he's correct. My understanding is that Riku takes off his blindfold for the first time in KH:COM, which is after Xehanort's Heartless/"Ansem" has been defeated. That is consistent with what Flare has said, I think, though part of COM might happen earlier than the other parts; I can't remember.

I would encourage any other KH people-educated people to weigh-in.

It is possible that this game has generalized chronology. It is also possible that Slicey decided that "Ansem" was a less cumbersome name than the literally-obnoxious-to-type "Xehanort's Heartless." And it is also also possible that Slicey thinks of XH as "Ansem" because of fandom norms in the same way that lots of American fans think of Aerith as Aeris in spite of it sort of not being her name.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, the Gorrad link was not subtle at all. She's kind of a forum celebrity, though, and I think he started it, so I wasn't sure how reliable that was as a tell.

Flare, you might also want to read her predecessor (= Discode) in iso.

[Iecerint]

The only information I have is what is in my PM, and I'm just parroting it.

Oh, come on, honey; I have a hard time believing you didn't at least research your role a little bit.

[Iecerint]

DC could've just ignored the ModScene, though, especially since it'd already gotten some attention. [/WIFOM] That's why I'd been erring on the side of DGBtown.

[Iecerint]

I should point out, if you couldn't tell from the iso, that there was HEAVY speculation that Discode was either Riku or Roxas in the aftermath of his Miller claim.

[Iecerint]

I'm DiZ who I guess is also Ansem? There's like 3 dudes named Ansem that I could find and my avatar is one of them, so that was a breadcrumb. I'm the former ruler of the Radiant Gardens. I gained the powers of darkness when I escaped the realm where my apprentices (who are the Nobodies??) imprisoned me.

See, all the question marks and so forth are what I found suspicious. Either you researched your role, or you didn't. Looked like feigned flavor ignorance.

[Iecerint]

Well, that's (part of) why DGB thinks Ace is scum. Mystery solved?

[Iecerint]

O_o

[Iecerint]

@ Flare. If you think Ace is scummier, you should vote Ace. I think Ace is scummier; I'm voting Ace.

DGB, I think Flare's flavor concern is valid, but I also think it may realistically be Slicey's fault. Namely, as someone mentioned, the fact that google-searching "Ansem" returns "Xehanort's Heartless" indicates that that may account for the apparent discrepancy. The same potentially applies to Hayker's claim.

Flare, the very first chronological time that Riku looks like XH, what do others call him? What does he call himself?

[Iecerint]

Doesn't he appear as XH before that? Like in COM or whatever?

[Iecerint]

Did either of you breadcrumb this anywhere? If not, what was the communication code?

How many wishes are used up? Can you personally use any wishes that remain? If you used them D2D3D4, why didn't you claim masons D4?

Do you know how your abilities might have been different if a different alignment had found you?

Please justify the "I'll help you"/"Courage!" business. What was the function of the former? If there was no function, why did you request it? (To anyone) What was Gorrad thinking about when he posted the latter?

[Iecerint]

I think of Aerith as Aeris because I played FF7 first. If Slicey is in the same boat, I could see him making that error. Not that there might be independent reasons for suspecting Hayker, or that this isn't a net weak point against Hayker.

I second SW's request for a clarification from Sajin there if possible.

[Iecerint]

Also, Sajin, are you in a position to explain your temporary doublevote D2? I noticed this while I was hunting around for breadcrumbs.

[Iecerint]

RF -- if it turns out that PZ is a non-mafia Nobody, I will be very cross with you.

If that happens, I'll claim, just so that you can be even more cross with me. [insert="personal note that this is a breadcrumb for later"]this is a breadcrumb for later[/insert]



Anyway, he's mafia. The fact he's a nobody is just a bonus (nearly finished with teh nobody mafia, methinks).

that's the plus; the minus is that I don't have any kind of investigation.

This is the most obvious breadcrumb. I was speculating whether his claimed Nobody-finding ability might make non-scum Millers show up Guilty, 's what the quote's about. Not sure how the breadcrumb up top fits with the claim, but he says that he "doesn't have any kind of investigation" at the bottom, which does fit with what Sajin's said.

[Iecerint]

Well, name is functionally interchangeable, but canonically the character is named Aerith, and she was never Aeris in KH. So even though the fandom uses the names interchangeably, Aerith is unambiguously the character's name in KH, but the former makes Slicey's error feasible.

[Iecerint]

No CC is pretty vacuous when you're that near the end of the Conga line. Starbuck didn't get a CC, but we wouldn't expect her to, etc.

I agree with you that Slicey could reasonably have messed up, but it's still slightly sketch. Still, there are better targets.

Also agree about Starbuck.

[Iecerint]

I also don't see much to comment on, unless I've missed something?

Which one is the scum: ace v. starbuck? Or more than one of those?

[Iecerint]

We have a claimed null track result on UK, though. <_<

[Iecerint]

(For people like me who are too lazy to iso UK, Queen of KH, particularly when she is perfectly capable of reminding us given that she is here, she thinks they are both scum.)

[Iecerint]

Did Flare just hammer Ace? He is kind of not my friend anymore if he did as much and Ace flips town.

Starbuck, I think I specified why you beat DGB's other 4 suspects in the same post, or else in the neighboring one. It was mostly PoE, since your character slot has kinda been a non-entity all game, save the occasional not-entirely-content-less wallpost. Also, your slot being scum explains the Plum kill; she was under a lot of scrutiny prior to her flip.

UK's behavior in that instance was highly annoying, and she's sort of not very friendly from time to time, but she's on the backburner for me. I think Ace is a good lynch, even if we shouldn't lynch him prematurely.

[Iecerint]

I thought I put him at L-2 and then UK joined the wagon? Maybe I'm thinking of another game.

[Iecerint]

I'm a bad counter.

[Iecerint]

Yep. In case someone shoots him in the head.

[Iecerint]

Plum's contribution to the game is largely continuous assertions that you're likely scum IIRC. I think she may've backed off a little D2, though, which implies that you aren't redscum. Doesn't prevent you from being bluescum, though, which is what DGB's list was about. Anyway, in spite off that, Plum received more scrutiny while she was alive than most any non-lurker. I think it would almost require myopic scum to have targeted her to make her being killed sensible.

That wasn't the main reason, though. The main reason was PoE relative to the other players on DGB's list.

[Iecerint]

I'll help you!

Courage!

/pick-up Shiny

Sajin, I choose you!

Figure it can't hurt.

[Iecerint]

Since I already claimed most of my flavor a long time ago (and we've gotten some flavorclaims from other players since then):

This may or may not be 100% full, but it is as 100% full as is reasonable to communicate -- "I am Captain Jack Sparrow, Town Two-Shot Day Vigilante. I was greedy, so I'm cursed (flavor only). I can only shoot twice because someone stole my other bullets (presumably also flavor only)."

Additional flavor is that I captain my pirate ship (named) and become a skeleton at night. My ability itself also has a flavorful title that's too much of an idiom to properly paraphrase, which is the source of my secret scumtell on Ace. He said his ability didn't have any flavor associated with it or something like that IIRC.

It's my understanding that you were going to be shiny'd starting D2 regardless of players' actions D1. Is that accurate?

[Iecerint]

I suppose I can make up a different idiom. "A Pirate's Life Is A Wonderful Life!" (But not.) Could be that I'm the only one who got the VIP treatment (I don't think anyone else batted an eye when Ace claimed flavorless), but there it is, etc.

Also, why'd'ya single-out me? That hurts my feelings?

[Iecerint]

EBWOP

?

....

[Iecerint]

Who do you think DGB is, Flare? Not that you having a specific person is a necessary prerequisite, but ye know.

[Iecerint]

I mean, who do you think DGB is given the ModScene (which DC presumably did not fabricate)?

[Iecerint]

O_o

[Iecerint]

PoE = Process of Elimination. DGB listed 4 scums d. I listed why 3 of them were likely town earlier, which left you as the remainder scum.

[Iecerint]

Good point @ Ace regarding the likelihood that PMs are probably uniformly flavored. Dunno why that didn't occur to me. I just knee-jerked at the apparent inconsistency.

[Iecerint]

Why on earth did SW claim?

Also, wasn't it WFH who was voteless D2? Did we just interpret it improperly?

[Iecerint]

I don't see the impetus for the claim in DTM's posts, if that's what you mean.

Starbuck wallposts too much for me to read the thread too religiously.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Oh, I see. That's right. I forgot about that.

Why'd joe wanna make me voteless? I literally did not look scummy at all N1. I was a paragon of towniness. I understand that SW can't really answer for him, but ye know.... <_<

[Iecerint]

It certainly seems that way. You probably could've just claimed that you could confirm her N4 action, though.

[Iecerint]

Meh. I would've done it. There was no need to announce that he was killable tonight IMO.

[Iecerint]

So long as we're all claiming our ability names without consequences, I may as well point out that mine is "All's Fair In Love and Piracy."

I like my sample idiom better.

[Iecerint]

I agree with DGB. I also agree with Flare's unease about the "Ansem" issue, though.

[Iecerint]

Hooray! Told ye that Aerith/Aeris-type fandom business could potentially account for the disconnect.

Post it anyway, please.

[Iecerint]

Poor Roxas.

[Iecerint]

Why the hell is Namine telling Riku to attack Roxas?

[Iecerint]

WTF that is literally not very nice. I thought Roxas and Namine were OTP and all that. Also -- Roxas never goes away, but Sora gets his memories back. WAT?

(BTW -- I understand that this is all a little distracting and so on, but Ace is sort of scum, anyway, so I am only minimally concerned.)

[Iecerint]

ace5993 (4): Iecerint, DrippingGoofball, UncertainKitten, Flareonage
Shotty to the Body (1): Sajin
Starbuck (1): Snow White
Sajin (1): ace5993

Not Voting: Shotty to the Body, Hayker, DTMaster, Starbuck

This is the most recent VC. Have not checked for vote changes since then.

[Iecerint]

Roxas shows up during the game, though, doesn't he? So that means he keeps existing. I guess Riku just needs to shake the memories out of him rather than kill him or something?

[Iecerint]

Sajin, I don't think any of your purported scum seem particularly town, so that doesn't alarm me. But why do you think Ace is town?

[Iecerint]

Next post will have a full scum-town list, except that I will lie twice. That means two players will be in a section I don't think they are in.

O_o

[Iecerint]

But I love how you are trying to take the easy way out. If I didn't want ace dead first, I'd be voting you for the plentiful reasons you've given

So, do you think Sajin is scum, too, or do you think Starbuck is a(nother) GF?

[Iecerint]

Starbuck is innocent btw.....or at least does not show up as heartless/nobody to cop investigation. Discuss.

He had mentioned he had another living innocent result a bit before that. A little after that, he claimed Hayker/UK/Shotty/(Flare?) scum IIRC. I'm still waiting for him to explain why he thinks Ace is town.

[Iecerint]

Uh...yeah? That actually isn't that hard to imagine at all?

To be clear, I wasn't asking you a rhetorical question. I was asking you a straightforward one. No need to be grouchy.

[Iecerint]

You didn't seem to have acknowledged Sajin's result on Starbuck in your post, so I tried to determine whether you'd missed it or felt the way you did in spite of it and, given the latter, whether you thought Sajin was town. That was the point of my question.

[Iecerint]

I suppose

Ansem

Xehanort's Heartless would make sense as a GF, at that.

Yo, Flare -- is there any a priori reason why Xemnas would have been GF, other than that he's the Nobody boss? For example, is Xemnas ever mistaken for a nice man by the party?

[Iecerint]

Slicey has politely asked us to kill Ace. The question remains -- whose side is he on, etc.

Still waiting for Sajin to explain why Ace is not scum.

[Iecerint]

No. -_-

[Iecerint]

Sajin, Ye Ful Powerfyl Roal, claimed responsibility for PZ and current Innocent result on SB.
Ace is one-shot Cop on the incidentally NK'd scum.
Slicey is the Mod.

[Iecerint]

To answer your question:

Sajin, I don't think any of your purported scum seem particularly town

, so that doesn't alarm me. But why do you think Ace is town?

I agree that Ace is a popular lynch. I also agree that that can be alarming. But it could also indicate that his friends are absent, few, or bussing him. Any of those are reasonable under the circumstances IMO.

[Iecerint]

Well, your remaining point was that it was a bad fakeclaim, which is just WIFOM as far as I can tell.

You're also maybe forgetting that Ace claimed Namine, 1-shot Cop literally pages after townRF had already joke-claimed it. That accounts for any perceived oddness in the claim itself. The coincidence also requires a bit of suspension of disbelief.

Why do you think 1-shot Cop is a bad choice for last fakeclaim? Also, why do you think Ace has no more friends?

[Iecerint]

Also, given that you think Ace would hypothetically be the last one on his scumteam, why are you alarmed that he is a popular lynch?

[Iecerint]

Ray didn't catch PZ with his ability. Sajin investigated him at night, and then he gave his result to RF in code the next day. Then RF claimed the result.

[Iecerint]

Shotty or Hayker could certainly be scum. I just don't think they are quite as obvious as Ace. That's what I was trying to communicate when I quoted my old post on the subject.

[Iecerint]

SW, Ace claimed Namine. Flare posited NamineRB to suggest that Ace may be Namine, but also Nobody-aligned and a RBer. This would solve the mystery of DGB's RBer, DGB's inference that Ace got up in arms when DGB claimed no RB at first, etc. It would also help explain the "bad" fakeclaim. Hearing that Namine was a plausible town Cop might be all a scumNamine would need to hear to claim as much.

Your other @Me points are sort of outdated points or don't make much sense, so I don't know that I can really respond to them. Obviously Discode (or anyone) would have removed the blindfold. Who wants to be vanilla? But what does that have to do with anything?

[Iecerint]

A lot of players had speculated that the "cut to pieces" flavor was an SK, IIRC. Several players had alluded to the "obvious" 3rd party presence, even if it never made sense to me. Could be he was trying to prop up that rhetoric. Also, it's kinda a no-brainer that there's a 3rd party somewhere in a game this size.

Again, "easy lynch" is no longer a reliable towntell if scum is unlikely to have many scumfriends.

You are the one who is fascinated by the void business being Nobody business, not that I think it's out of the picture. I think people have also suggested that whoever Kise's guarded (Ace) put him into the Void. Both Nobodies and Heartless have access to the Corridors of Darkness, anyway, don't they?

RBers can sometimes both perform their action and kill in the same turn if they're the last one left. It just depends upon the set-up.

DGB's claim was no longer problematic at all by the time Flare pointed out that Youtube videos call XH "Ansem" even though it's an anachromism. It's perfectly plausible that the apparent disconnect is just a fandom issue. The same may explain Hayker's "Aeris" claim.

[Iecerint]

RF joke-claiming Ace's role is at least as big a coincidence.

[Iecerint]

SW, is there a reason you were really fixated on Cobalt's "last words" even before Kise's death flavor flip? It seemed like a really odd bit of minutiae to be drawn toward during a reread of all 120-some pages of the game, or however many it was.

[Iecerint]

There's always SBGF, but that's a game for lylo as far as I'm concerned. I hope she's not too terribly ambiguous in the interim.

[Iecerint]

So DGB, you are claiming that you believe ace to be your RB'er and that's why you want him lynched right?

That is in no shape or for the extent of the case against Ace.

[Iecerint]

Reasons why Ace is scum off the top of my head

1. Sketchy claim

A. He claimed what RF had already jokefakeclaimed, down to role, ability, and flavor. RF and Slicey must think alike!
B. He waited this long to use his one-shot Cop, even though he doesn't have any fancy NK-proof abilities. Was likely a transparent attempt to delay his lynch.
C. When he finally used his ability, he managed to target one of the only 3 players whose result would be useless to us. The prior probability is less than 1/4. Add that WFH has never really had a wagon against him and was not a major suspect (I think the most anyone did is that I mentioned that he made my stomach hurt a few times), and you have a sketchy target choice.
D. In spite of that, it's a useful scumfakeCop target because it
i) creates the illusion that Ace has EXTRA SPECIAL INSIGHT into the scum persons
ii) precludes giving any information to us about his targets.
E. His explanation for why he targeted WFH, that WFH was the hammer, is pretty lame in light of WFH by all indications not having been aware of the hammer. Sure, WFH may have been acting, but this would not have been enough to draw the investigation in the general case IMO.

2. Reaction to DGB's track "result"

A. Consistent with a player who knows that DGB's fake result did not occur.
Bv1. May imply that WFH, or his scumfriend, was responsible for the RB on DGB.
Bv2. Also, if Ace *IS* Namine (since the character could reasonably be Nobody-aligned based on flavor), RBer would be a high-probability a priori power.

3. FEEL IT IN YR GUT

A. Doesn't he just SEEM SCUMMY?
B. I mean, granted, so did raider and Kise, so maybe this is a really bad heuristic. But he has sort of seemed this way to me for as long as I can remember.
C. Suppose that also makes him a good scum target, though.

I'm sure there are other reasons, too, but this is the case for me.

[Iecerint]

I want an award for unwittingly aiding and abetting scum if DGB turns out to be a nasty lady btw.

I want Sajin to say mean things about my post and/or that he forgot about some of those aspects of Ace's play before we end the day if possible.

[Iecerint]

Why the hell isn't Snow White voting Ace? She is officially no longer allowed on my good list.

[Iecerint]

Hi, guys. I was skiing in West Virginia all weekend and just got back. I let Slicey know via PM, but it looks like the message wasn't quite passed on.

Yeah, I think cut-to-pieces has to be SK or vig at this point. I also can't really blame anyone who thinks it could be me, except that it's not.

@Shotty- Claim rolename. Thanks. Kinda vanilla sorta but not really is not an answer.

He's DiZ. Claimed his current avatar was a breadcrumb, which led people to speculate he was Xehanort's Heartless. Could be XHSK. Does XH use cutting weapons, though? Even though he's a minor character, I'm reaching the point where the cut-to-pieces flavor looks a bit like Sephiroth. Maybe Slicey couldn't help himself. <_<

I'd join in a Shotty lynch, I think. Even if he's not scum, I could see DiZ being 3rd party without too much imagination. It's *possible* that he's even the SKvig, though, same as XH, I dunno whether DiZ uses cutting weapons.

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Mr. Sajin -- does your result on SB make her town, or merely non-scum?

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If cut-to-pieces is the SK, the SK looks like Sephiroth. If one of us is Sephiroth, the fakeclaim is probably Starbuck's "Cloud." I could both see Slicey providing it and see SBSephy coming up with it.

If there is another SKish fellow who cuts people up in the source material, please let me know. Especially if XH does so, because I think the probability of Shotty being the last red and/or the SK is greater than the mere probability of SB being the SK.

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I like your thinking, Icerink.

How's this plan.

We lynch Shotty.

I attempt to track Starbuck. Starbuck NK's me. I'm dead. Next morning, the rest of you lynch Starbuck.

This is a fine plan. No complaints. However, I'm not sure how you know enough about the flavor to judge whether my flavor-based reasoning is worthy of praise. O_o

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You think she's RikuHeartless, FakeclaimHeartless, RikuSK, or FakeclaimSK?

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I could see "exploded" being Jafar, I guess. The problem with this is that it messes up the pattern where no hero-villain pairings exist in this game. For example, Ursula is here, but not Ariel. Same with Hook-Peter Pan, though I suppose Maleficent doesn't really have her rival as a major figure in the franchise, except in material released after KH2. Small sample size, though, so it could be a total coincidence. Maybe Slicey just doesn't much like girls (already strong evidence of that via Kairi) and he thought there were already plenty of ambiguously-pubescent boys.

This is pretty useless as far as I can tell, but I bothered to think about it, so there you are.

Shotty, the Mod-posted darkness scene is almost certainly associated with her character, so it's not as if her rolename is immaterial.

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I could see "exploded" being Jafar, I guess. The problem with this is that it messes up the pattern where no hero-villain pairings exist in this game. For example, Ursula is here, but not Ariel. Same with Hook-Peter Pan, though I suppose Maleficent doesn't really have her rival as a major figure in the franchise, except in material released after KH2. Small sample size, though, so it could be a total coincidence. Maybe Slicey just doesn't much like girls (already strong evidence of that via Kairi) and he thought there were already plenty of ambiguously-pubescent boys.

This is pretty useless as far as I can tell, but I bothered to think about it, so there you are.

Shotty, the Mod-posted darkness scene is almost certainly associated with her character, so it's not as if her rolename is immaterial.

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I assumed you couldn't get them anymore. You seem to be implying otherwise. I trust you will disclose it when you have decided that it is prudent to do so -- which I'd imagine would be sometime today.

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I don't have much flavor knowledge. I've only played part of the first game and read through the wiki a bit. Needs Flare.

I think DGB makes sense as Riku. That said, she could reasonably, from a flavor standpoint, be RikuSK or RikuHeartless. Namely, Riku is HeartlessScum in a version of this game I found on another site about a month ago (it was based on the first game only), and his 3rd partyishness toward the middle of the franchise could possibly fit with SK. But Town is probably the most likely a priori designation IMO given that this games spans to the end of KH2.

The only thing that's bothering me a little about DGB is the claimed names of her abilities. My ability has such a cute name! Maybe I was just lucky.

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Have Ace and Shotty attacked DGB consistently?

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Well, DGBredscum would also make that true. But I don't see it. She put both WFH and Ace on her early scumlist, and she was instrumental in the AceGF lynch yesterday. The only reason to believe DGBredscum is maybe the Heartless Miller claim AFAIK.

DGBRikuSK is slightly more plausible, but I like SBSephy better.

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What did Flare do with Ace? I vaguely remember something other than SW losing enthusiasm for the Ace wagon during a lull. I understand that you think Shotty beats him due to the DoS wagon, and I think you're correct, but I want to cover all the bases.

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OK, that's what I needed to hear.

Vote: Shotty.

That's

L-1

.

Would be nice for Starbuck to get a content post in before the hammer.

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Hang on.

Unvote

.

So long as you're so good at this game, what about UK?

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I mean, I understand that you see the DoS wagon as a big piece of the puzzle, but humor me.