Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!
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Iecerint Survivor
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Not at all. You've already posted 2/3 as much as he posted the entire game.-
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Literally news to me @ Sajin. No longer shall I live in the darkness, etc.-
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Nono, I'm not belittling you for saying as much; other players have mentioned it, too. Rather, I literally mean that I am sorry. But that's the role that I was given.-
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I think the only way I could understand someone thinking I was non-town is if they thought I was an SK DKer who was pretending to have only had 2 shots. My interaction with SSK and especially Cobalt make it unlikely that I am paired with either of them IMO.
(Flare doesn't count since he hasn't read the game.)-
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If you think there's an SK, what do you make of there only being at most 2 NKs each night?-
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Mulan's is KH2 IIRC.RF wrote:maleficent, ursula, jafar, that guy that was evil in mulan, and bob sagget.
The other KH villains are Oogie Boogie and Hades. So I guess Hook isn't a total left-field choice, even if I personally find him the most boring.
Unvote; Vote: raider. I'm ambivalent between him and Kise. I don't want to lynch ace for the reason Sajin indicated.-
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NB: Hook's selection becomes considerably LESS left-field if Slicey limited himself to KH1 Heartless villains to make up the scumteam. He becomes a little more odd if we include KH2 villains into the roles he could have chosen. So that makes raider's Scar-is-Heartless claim look fishier.
WFH, what does it mean that Scar is a "shadow"? Is that different from being a Heartless?-
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I think there is 1 Nobody left. Why do you think I think there are 2?
SW's SK idea is very silly. It is also a little weird that she jumped onto a lame idea someone else had as soon as I supported her bandwagon, and then backed off of her idea, saying that it didn't really fit, as soon as I mentioned it to her. O_o
Case on Kise is "I had a good feeling!"/attempted policy lynch on DN based on admitted lie coupled with PR-insinuating "I'll take responsibility for his flip tomorrow if necessary"/potential slip with "scum would know they are the only threats to the town left," which he retracted, saying that it was an error on his part.
I think DGB said it was because of the VC.-
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Uh, no? Why, is that what SW said? I am suspicious of Kise for the reasons I just listed in that previous post.UncertainKitten wrote:Well, that's part of your case, right? Kise is protecting raider, which would imply they were on the same scumteam, right?
But come to think of it, Kise preferring DN is only scummy (the fact that he did, I mean; the way he did it is scummy regardless) if raider is scum. So that's all the more reason to prefer a raider lynch to a Kise lynch.-
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EBWOP: Oh, I see what you meant. That just meant that the raiderIsANobody train-of-thought had been discredited by a couple of players (DGB, Shotty, etc).-
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I never proposed that scumtell, or I don't think I did. I think you misread the post where I was making the switch from raider to Kise.-
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I disputed it when you first brought it up IIRC, unless I'm forgetting some much-earlier time when you brought it up.
Post what I said that made you think I was implicitly proposing it.-
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Yeah. It was 2 points against Kise, and then a point that made the raider wagon less interesting.-
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OK, that's a decent point. It still requires some hardcore doctor win and/or nerfed/lazy scum, though.SW wrote:Well if im a SK and ive been making kills i would say after 3nobody deaths i would consider them wiped out. >This being main point<
I thought you were playing with the idea that I was Clayton, SK. That was the lame idea I was referring to.
Ace didn't just insinuate Cop; he out-and-out claimed it. He's said he's a 1-shot Cop who has not used his shot yet. Sajin pointed out that this makes him evaluateable and therefore not the best lynch, and I'm inclined to agree. Even the RB issue is of minimal concern if you think about it.-
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I think people had just mentioned that, and then you started up with the SK rhetoric. It was just context; nothing you said specifically. I guess I read too much into it. Sorry. ^^
Oh, you meant regarding Kise. He didn't claim Cop, necessarily, but he did claim secret scumtell. It could have meant a slip based on something DN did in an ongoing game, or it could've meant something related to Kise's role. I'll find the relevant post. -->-
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Here's a couple Kise quotes that tell a story:Kise wrote:Vote: Deathnote
He knows why.Kise, after DGB asks what was up, wrote:If he flips town (lol, he won't) then I'm held accountable tomorrow. Until then, I reject your fishing rod.Kise, elaborating, wrote:If he flips town, I'm held accountable tomorrow. Me and me only. And maybe the bus driver.Kise, when I asked what the secret scumtell was after he kinda dropped his case for raider in spite of his PR implication wrote:It was non-existent.Kise, when I said lolwat, wrote:
Yes, YES MOTHERF**KERS, I wanted to teach him a lesson and manipulate everyone into lynching his skulking ass. He's dead already to this game.Iec wrote:Are you saying that -- in spite of the presence of reasonable suspicion of other players -- you were pushing a clandestine policy lynch on DN?
There I said it!
GAAAAAAAAAHAHHHUKUJHAKSJDHJKSDABNJK@#!IIUQ!@)(LKAN
There are leads suggesting raider could be a Nobody. I'd rather get to the bottom of that instead of carry out my dickheaded plan.
And yes, I would have still accounted for DN if he flipped town.
So, that should give you an idea of what my case is based on. It may or may not be better than raider. But I think it's better than ace.Kise, later explaining the feelings in his heart, wrote:Policy lynching before lylo is a damn good reason. Take tubby in the Webcomic theme game for example (which I'd consider gameover via the hints posted). I haven't updated my wiki in a very long time, but that game was one of my earliest on site. I'm pretty sure I [town] just lost that game because there wasn't enough focus of ridding the lurkers early. All that damn work over months of playing and stalling and the scum win in 3-player lylo because town didn't deal with a "question mark."
Anyway, that totally wasn't a rant. Priority should be to take away possibly the last Nobody to eliminate the number of nightkills. I'm still looking at raider. How 'bout you?-
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Also -- Sajin made a Die Hard allusion in the middle of all that. Is that a board meme or something? It went over my head.-
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Nothing else fits the flavor. It's not like I'm infallible. I thought you were Namine.
DiZ is Ansem. The real one, not the one that Riku is or the one that is Xehanort's Heartless.
For fun. I should probably stop, though.
Anyway, DiZ could be any of several alignments IMO, so it's not like I've given him a fancy fakeclaim in the event that he is both scum and someone-else-not-DiZ.-
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I'VE HAD IT IN MY HEAD FOR LITERALLY 80 PAGES AND CANNOT RESIST OK.
I lack self-control.
Let's lynch raider please. Or Kise.-
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Can we lynch someone before I start speculating on someone else, or else could someone indicate what we're waiting for?-
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Aladdin and Beast are party members in the original KH, too, if I'm not mistaken. I know Aladdin is. The wiki implies that Beast is. It's true that I'm only in KH2, though.
If I'm not mistaken, the Mod has indicated that this game includes events from KH through KH2, and that it includes CoM. It does not include the 3242343/32432 Days or whatever or Birth By Sleep.-
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Captain Hook isn't in KH2 if I'm not mistaken.-
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Unless I'm mistaken, that's just Sajin. I think he believed he had to make flavorful posts early on or they'd be censored, but it turned out that he overestimated how flavorful they had to be at first.
There was a mechanic D1 where players had to type "I'll help you!" to get Sajin out of his ModVoice post restriction. My guess is that those are just random players he chose. I am taking a wait-and-see attitude.-
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I just noticed this in the process of checking. People who know the flavor -- does this exchange mean anything to you? It appears to mean something to Gorrad.Gorrad wrote:
!Slicey wrote:"Simply concentrate on it with all your heart, and you need only say the word to summon an ally who will help in times of need."
COURAGE!-
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Can you think of a Nobody who would be in the Void or whatever like that? I had been thinking DiZ because he was put in the Void or something by his apprentices, but I don't know how he gets out, so I was mostly just making it up.
Looking back -- I was toying with the idea that Sajin is an initially unaligned summon (maybe Neutral Survivor) who knows the scumlords' identities. The first player to summon him/help him recruits him for the game. That's what the COURAGE bit looks like to me, but I don't really remember KH that well.
Gorrad is the first to type COURAGE, and he's the first to type "I'll help you." Plum is the first to type "I'll help you," in bold, though. So this could kinda go either way depending upon how mechanics work out. However, Sajin joining the Nobodies D2 would fit with Gorrad recruiting him. It would also explain why Plum died N2. She had been under a lot of scrutiny as potential scum before that.-
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To clarify, he knows Xemnas and Sora. Not just the scumlords.
I understand that that is HEAVY on the speculation. But I figure Sajin's well is already poisoned, anyway, and I couldn't help but think about this when you mentioned the two players Sajin singled-out.
The problem with the idea is that the Heartless are out of the loop. Or Maleficent/Xehanort's Heartless (whichever) is a player Sajin isn't fond of.-
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There's no post. I just think that if a role like the one I'm postulating were in the game, I would expect all factions to have access to it. It's possible that it could be balanced other ways, but all-access seems like less of a headache.
So, if the role exists, either Sajin doesn't know who HeartlessLord is (so he didn't ask for his/her help), or he realized that HeartlessLord was a player he wasn't as comfortable joining as Plum or Gorrad (so he slyly only listed their names).
The much-simpler-but-quite-low-probability alternative is that he just happened to pick players with high flavor significance.-
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You're also the towniest scum ever, if WoT mafia is any indication.
What do you mean by "incomplete speculation"?-
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Roles are relevant because part of finding scum right now is determining whether or not raider is scum. A major point some have interpreted against him is the claim that Scar is in the game. Flare was trying to determine whether there was evidence from the flips thus far that Scar was highly likely to unlikely to be present. So I think that that speculation wasn't scummy or unhelpful at all.
I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned that about Sajin. I sorry.
Gorrad didn't actually give me the JS safeclaim. He mentioned a bunch of possible scum roles (including Smee!) and voted me, arguing that there wasn't a town gun user. I think someone else did bring up my role before I could claim it, though, in the context of asking what the hell Gorrad was talking about.
I'm reading to lynch raider or Kise. I think both players are reasonably likely to be scum. I am annoyed by all the non-voters who don't seem to want things to get moving AND don't bring up their own conversation topics. Discussion is pro-town, but lagging to deadline so everyone forgets everything isn't helpful.
I think the last Nobody scum would also "tunnel hard" on "finding" the last Nobody scum. That's why DGB's mention of Starbuck is reasonable. I doubt she's Heartless, though, since Plum almost certainly investigated her N1.-
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Roles are relevant because part of finding scum right now is determining whether or not raider is scum. A major point some have interpreted against him is the claim that Scar is in the game. Flare was trying to determine whether there was evidence from the flips thus far that Scar was highly likely to unlikely to be present. So I think that that speculation wasn't scummy or unhelpful at all.
I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned that about Sajin. I sorry.
Gorrad didn't actually give me the JS safeclaim. He mentioned a bunch of possible scum roles (including Smee!) and voted me, arguing that there wasn't a town gun user. I think someone else did bring up my role before I could claim it, though, in the context of asking what the hell Gorrad was talking about.
I'm reading to lynch raider or Kise. I think both players are reasonably likely to be scum. I am annoyed by all the non-voters who don't seem to want things to get moving AND don't bring up their own conversation topics. Discussion is pro-town, but lagging to deadline so everyone forgets everything isn't helpful.
I think the last Nobody scum would also "tunnel hard" on "finding" the last Nobody scum. That's why DGB's mention of Starbuck is reasonable. I doubt she's Heartless, though, since Plum almost certainly investigated her N1.-
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I didn't start it this time. The question is how to address the already-revealed potential inconsistency. It's not as if ignoring it now that it's happened will put it back in the bag.Sajin wrote:This again? Please stop asking for role PM information from people. If they wish to share it that is one thing. Asking for it is a different thing all together. What the hell do I have to type to get you to stop? Please inform me and I will type it.-
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SW, I understand Kise being scum. That is simple.
(Actually, his ploy today kinda reminds me of his scumplay D1 in Grimm's Pokemon Madness mafia, where he tried to "mistakenly" quicklynch a player, but was caught when someone forgot to unvote. (By some miracle that still doesn't make sense to me, town wouldn't lynch him with me D2 IIRC. Sajin has said that Kise reads town to him, which I find a little odd. I've never played with townKise, so it could be that absurdly anti-town behavior is just a Kise tell. I'd love to see examples if they exist.)
What is less clear to me is why raider is "not our guy." You can play the same game I played with Kise this game and find places where raider has backtracked (most recently the scar-is-in-this-game vs. scar-is-mentioned-in-flavor flip after some discussion pretty much telling him to claim the latter). Granted, it won't be nearly as damning as Kise's case, but I don't see why you're clearing raider.-
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That is literally not a good argument. It is WIFOMtastic. This is how it goes:
1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. But raiderScum's team obviously would've made it seem like Scar is in the game!
4. so raider is town.
The simpler interpretation of these facts goes:
1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. raider's claim that Scar is in the game is a point against him.
Also, I think it's inappropriate to assume that raider is necessarily Scar if he is scum. SSK (the only flipped Disney villain) didn't claim the hero associated with his villain (Peter Pan) but rather Mulan.
Alsoalso, even if we accept your more complex interpretation, "cut to pieces" *could* easily be Scar. (Granted, that kind of evidence implies raiderTown rather than raiderScum IMO.)-
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EBWOP. Eh, maybe you're right, though, on second thought. raiderTown is just going to tell us the truth. raiderScum is more likely to lie about Scar hangin out if there is evidence that he is there. Still, since there may be evidence that he is there, it's not clear that we're not in the latter situation.
OK, fine. I'm nullifying that. But I'm not putting it as a point in raider's corner.
Unvote; Vote: Kise.-
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EBWOPx2: There's still WFH's argument about a decreased prior probability of a player being told scumroles. That's unaffected. Hard to test, though.-
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Scum have a motivation not to lynch their friends. Town don't. So, given a circumstance where two players are comparably scummy and one goes down much more easily, that player is more likely to be town.
Obviously, the tell can be perverted if one player is legitimately scummier, but I am not convinced that that is a major concern in this case.
The Kise case is not very complex. Put simply, lying is very wrong, especially when you do it to lynch someone.-
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Targeting lurker townies like DN is easy, lazy scum play. There's a reason this is what Cobalt did all of D1.wolframnhart wrote:
I have to agree with Kise on this one.Kise wrote:And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?
SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.
At least I admit when I'm full of crap.
I am sympathetic to players who want to lynch lurkers to make the game more fun, but it is not pro-town behavior.-
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1. Who is this directed at? I assume me.Kise wrote:You can't have your cake and eat it too. But, keep in mind, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know if DN was town or rival scum. So calling DN a lurker townie could be an inaccurate statement.
2. It is vacuously true that scum often inadvertently scumhunt against the other team. Not sure what your point is.-
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