Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)

[Jahudo]

/confirm

[Jahudo]

Vote: Maelyn

80% sure on one half of that hydra but only 20% sure on the other half.

As for this theory talk, teleporters can do whatever they want and we have little power to influence them. U1's Fishyfish is right on that if one town gets in better shape than the other, the latter's teleporter may claim and hope the other teleporter sends him over and they stay over. I can see that working if the mafia uses up their teleport and the day-night cycle allows one universe to steal the other's teleporter for the rest of the game.

So we can try to work together with the other universe if everyone is on board, but that may not last very long. Especially if we pull their most pro-town and teleport away our most scummy. Better to just worry about lynching scummy people and not rely on teleporters to be more than a fun role for those people to try out (unless we can be that universe to steal the other teleporter
(<3 universe 1)).

[Jahudo]

There's nothing to gleam from Jack or Elmo's defense of that knowledge now, but Nico and to a lesser extent Anon's posts look like genuine town-curiosity for bringing up those questions. Scum I think would have been easier to look over that part of the setup since they'd know it already.

As for the Maelyn bandwagon, I'm loving it. Anyone who self-votes is not scummy per say, but is volunteering for moar pressure.

80% sure on one half of that hydra but only 20% sure on the other half.

?

Because I am clearly the day role cop and saw that one of you is a Lynch Immune Monkey Rice, while the other is Dr. Air Freshener.

[Jahudo]

I'm still looking over Doc/Jack/Kairyuu connections, but here is my early impressions of everybody else:

animorpherv1 – He adds a little to the strategy conversation in 82, 112, 132 and tries to be helpful mentioning past games, but he hasn’t said anything or connected to anybody in a way that could be a tell for me.
@Ani: What do you remember about the teleporters in those MtG subgames? (I’m too lazy to read)

Anon – Post 85 could be genuine scumhunting, but not as impressive since Nico said it first. Post 160 is a justified vote and question of Jack dropping his vote and suspicion on Kairyuu. Odd that he singled out Ellibereth in 165 for a scum read, but I can understand the intention. Leaning town on him.
@Anon: Why did you single out Ellibereth?

DeathRowKitty – Adds to strategy talk. Main player connection is vote and suspicion on DocPotter. I’m waiting to see if he’ll elaborate on his claim that Doc is the worst offender for pushing agenda and not regarding positives of other strategies. Odd that he singles out Ellibereth in 128 for voting Maelyn. This time I can’t find the intention.
@DeathRowKitty: Why did you single out Ellibereth? What do you think of the rest of Maelyn’s wagon?

don_johnson – 0 Posts. Might be replaced soon…

Ellibereth – Says he’s more interested in finding scum than finding the best strategy, but he hasn’t been scumhunting yet. Only thing is in post 108 he said Doc’s points seemed dubious.
@Ellibereth: Can you elaborate on that.
Also he’s been quicker to declare people town. It’s early so this isn’t a strong tell for me, but scum have an easier time calling people town because they’d be telling the truth. But he’s been doing this more than anyone else, so I am somewhat suspicious of him.

Elmo – A little strategy talk but hasn’t posted since day began.

Fhqwhads – Mostly strategy talk, but a few interesting comments so far.
@fhqwhads: In post 174 are you calling Ellibereth subtle and flippant, or is that for Doc’s points that Elli called dubious? This sounds like your making a criticism, but I can’t tell what specifically.
In 180 you say Doc is being harsh with his vote. Do you think his words in that post are equally harsh? Like when he feels Kairyuu is manipulating the town?

Kise – Hasn’t done anything, and hasn’t posted since day began.

Lowell – Some strategy talk, but only thing of note is his Jack vote.
@Lowell: Why make a bandwagon on Jack over a bandwagon on someone else?

Maelyn – I don’t think they’re out of RVS stage yet, but pressure on them is justified until they look town.

Nicodemus – Post 83 looks like genuine scumhunting. Has ideas on strategy but doesn’t suspect others on the basis of their strategy. Leaning town on him.

[Jahudo]

Doc Potter votes Kairyuu twice and disagrees with his strategy, even to the points where he feels its scum manipulation. In the first vote I feel that Doc is somewhat defending his own strategy preference by voting Kairyuu over Jack.

He continues to debate Kairyuu over the best strategy to implement instead of treating him like scum and debating how he should be voted for going after Jack. He unvotes in post 145 when they both decide that a third strategy might work best. I don’t understand how the original suspicion was resolved to cause that unvote. It seemed forced insincere.

But pushing a bad plan is on thing, voting for someone who points out that it is bad is annother, hence my vote.

What happened to this? It’s only a minor part of his re-vote on Kairyuu in post 178.
@Doc: How strong do you feel about this suspicion and why?

Something I’m wondering about Jack’s previous case on Kairyuu:

I suppose I should clarify that I don't find kairyuu particularly suspicious, and that the argument I'm making isn't to claim he's scum.

If that’s true then why did you speculate that he was scum?

Vote:Kairyuu

Who's to say you weren't scum proposing a sub optimal plan? It'd be nice not to be transported over to the other universe and killed by chance wouldn't it?

Were you just speculating for the sake of it? It looks like something you’re trying to prove by focusing on why he is supporting his plan.

Other than that he didn’t mention Kairyuu as scummy, or anything alignment-wise. A difference of opinion in strategy isn’t that telling to me. I can see Kairyuu’s justification for voting, because it does look like Jack misrepp’ed Kairyuu’s strategy (saying its unworkable when it can’t be proven if its unworkable or not)… but I just don’t see how that is scummy because it doesn’t discredit Kairyuu the player.

I'm leaning town on Kairyuu and Jack; leaning scum on Elli and Doc.
But Maelyn still gets my vote for saying we need to scumhunt, and then not scumhunting.

[Jahudo]

Jack: Why do you keep switching your vote (from Doc to Nico, then to fhqwhgads) when you didn't question Doc or Nico like you had with Kairyuu and fhqwhgads? Do you still think Doc and Nico are scummy? What was the Nico vote about?

I think Anon is looking for an easy target.

What makes Elli an easy target? I see a legitimate case on him, even if it was easy to find.

As for the Maelyn bandwagon, I'm loving it. Anyone who self-votes is not scummy per say, but is volunteering for moar pressure.

Why do you think we should give it to them?

What do you mean? Why should we give Maelyn the bandwagon? She needs to prove she's pro-town after doing something that, as town, harms the town.
And I'm still waiting for that. it makes me sad

[Jahudo]

Maelyn: Can you give me your top 3 scum suspects and reasons for them? Pretty please with scumtells on top?

@Llama - It's nice to finally play with you!

Who are you talking to? At first I thought it was Llamafluff but he's not in this game...

I think if he truly found Elli scummy, he wouldn't just do "1 post shows scumhunting" he'd find something else as well. The lack of that makes me thinks he's looking for an easy way to get someone lynched.

That's possible, since Elli had about 16 posts to consider by that time. I thought you meant Elli was being an easy target.

But do you think some other votes, like Jack's "gut votes", aren't people looking for easy targets?

After post 164, I got the feeling that he was active lurking. I isolated him and only found ONE post, iso 14, that can be considered scumhunting and its even based on gut. And he doesnt get better. So yeah, I dont like him.

And you didn't think Maelyn or Kise, for example, were active lurking? They didn't have scumhunting posts either, IMO.

[Jahudo]

Dear Town of Universe One,

You're doing a great job so far! elvis_knits and Raskol are acting scummy, but mykonian is not their partner. Popsofctown is the third scum, but mostly if myk is town and e_k is scum. But I like the Raskol wagon best. Have a wonderful rest of the day

Your Friend,
Jahudo

[Jahudo]

Nico has been gone almost a week. He didn't like scumhunting in the wrong universe either, but he isn't scumhunting in this universe anymore!

Mod: Can you prod Nicodemus and Maelyn?

done

[Jahudo]

@Jahudo, what are your thoughts of ani? I simply dont understand his accusation against me, do you?

I think I understand his point. You didn't ask Elli questions in your vote post, as though you were okay just to plant a vote and not interact with him directly to get more reasons to call Elli scummy. If that's it, then I don't see how that's different than some other votes in this game.

And ani is actually getting you to reveal things without placing a vote. Though we might of helped him with that.

Anyway, I'm inspired:

@Ellibereth:

I'm not feeling this game yet, some people still haven't really posted.

Why did you say this when you had already declared 4 people town?
What are your top 3 scumpicks?
If Haelyn started scumhunting, would you switch to Kise who also hasn't started scumhunting yet?

[Jahudo]

@Ellibereth: Did Doc tell you he was an alt of Annachie like he said? Do you remember that player from a previous game, and did that have any effect on your post 280 speculation?

Doc's vote looks like OMGUS because Elli is a strong supporter of his wagon, and it's not a good defense to say what you would do as town or scum. Actually that defense is also scummy.

Jahudo: I don't understand how being bandwagoned would help her do that, though. Do you think that, if she's town, her being bandwagoned is pro-town? I don't get it - if you don't think she's scummy, why do you want a wagon on her?

I didn't know how she/they would react, but I wanted to see those reactions to get a better read. They're starting to scumhunt now and didn't seem pressured by the votes, which looks town to me.

We've got about 5 days until deadline. I think Doc is at L-2. I'm about ready to join that wagon, but will take another look at the thread since there's time.

unvote

[Jahudo]

@Lowell, Elli: Do you think DRK was trying to distance from scum-Doc? I think his vote made it L-3.

I see one reason where it makes sense, but this also depends on Doc being scum.

It's also possible DRK is scum getting started on the next lynch if Doc is town. Or DRK is town and really believes what he says about meta. The timing of his hop-on, hop-off supports both possibilities.

I don't think meta is as strong an indicator when alts are involved. Alts can put you into a different persona, like this apparent gender switch Doc made somewhere. A player might act and react differently because they're pretending their alt is an original player.

It looks like DRK also made this point, but still came to a different conclusion:

Basically, I don't think we're dealing with Annachie-scum. (Besides, Annachie-scum was possibly female, whereas DocPotter is obv-male. Clearly not the same person.)

How can a different Doc and Anna personality lead to having the same playstyles?

[Jahudo]

Also, has either of you actually bothered to read Annachie's scum meta?

I'm going to argue that he played pretty similarly in this game and that one. The meta doesn't count for much, but consider these parallels.

1. He directs his case on Kairyuu (here) and Elli (there) based on strategy preferences.
2. He starts off going strong on both people:

strangely Kair is pushing his agenda

This is so scummy because there is no completely random lynch!

3. He backs off pretty easily, and even accepts that they're strategy thinking isn't so bad:

Kair. That simpler idea might work better.

Well I must admit, that thread Elli pointed to did mention CSL as a policy lynch target

This is of little importance, and I'm disregarding meta in this case.
The Doc lynch is best because:
1. Initial unvote on Kairyuu hadn't resolved his initial reason for voting. It makes me think he was looking for a reason to disagree on strategy, and get on a wagon, instead of finding Kairyuu's vote on Jack suspicious.
2. Appeal to meta is not a townish defense even nearing a lynch.
3. I can agree that did too much scumhunting in the other universe only because he ignored too many people in this universe. He mostly interacts with Kairyuu, Elli and DRK. He mentions a few more people like once or twice, then ignores the rest completely.

Vote: DocPotter

[Jahudo]

Pulling DGB is the best option then. I don't think our mason should claim just to prove her right.

I don't know if we'll have the active players around to switch wagons, even if Jack or someone else looks like a better choice. We just haven't had that activity all day, so all it may do is ensure we miss the deadline.

His attempt to derail any strategizing by Kairyuu (who proposed the exact plan I thought would be optimal when I first looked at the setup) is ridiculously scummy. His grounds for trying to stop it is that he a) is banking on very unlikely crosskills ( I mean, seriously, this would NEVER happen like he is saying) and b) it'd be "boring" to game the setup.

That stuff doesn't bother me here because it's arguing over the better strategy more than it was trying to paint the other as scum. I didn't read it as Jack trying to start a wagon on Kairyuu, so what motivation would scum have for getting one strategy over the other? I think we agreed that both strategies had flaws because of new mod rules.

FOS Jahudo

Mis-representing meta is not a good thing. I drove, and I do mean drove, an attack on DRK founded on strategy reasons. Morphed as he played silly buggers but was still basically strategy.

Did you read the part where I said your meta meant nothing to me? Reactionary much.

[Jahudo]

I'll definitely want to look over the other Doc wagoners to see what points I agree or disagree with. And see if any look like hops. I still really like my first point about DP, more than any single point against anyone here actually.

But let's look at Jack:

OK, well, sounds like we have our strategy then. Which universe wants to Pull first?

Also, anyone voting kairyuu = silly

I suppose I should clarify that I don't find kairyuu particularly suspicious, and that the argument I'm making isn't to claim he's scum.

unvote:kairyuu

It does look like he backs down as a direct result of Nico's post. Jack didn't have support on the Kairyuu wagon, but there was two people on his at the time, and Nico was basically threatening to be a third.

But he continues to argue his strategy over Kairyuu's, so he wasn't backing down over strategy. So he didn't want to appear like he was suspecting Kairyuu.

He either didn't suspect Kairyuu as scum, or was doing a good job of hiding it. These two quotes are all I can find where he really uses the debate to question Kairyuu's alignment.

Unvote,Vote:Kairyuu

Who's to say you weren't scum proposing a sub optimal plan? It'd be nice not to be transported over to the other universe and killed by chance wouldn't it?

But townies often omgus vote on the basis that arguments against them are obviously false, they feel that anyone making them is mafia faking a case.

I actually could see how scum would make these two posts to imply scum without actually saying it but showing it (through voting and talking about the vote), but I don't think I've seen it be that subtle, and be effective in building a wagon. So I don't normally think of it that way when looking for scum trying to mislynch.

VP, Jack, et al: Can you try to dissect those above 2 Jack quotes?

[Jahudo]

It looks like other people's reasons for being on Doc's wagon are:

Ellibereth - scumhunting in OU and strategy talk without scumhunting in this universe.
Nicodemus - Doc's posts feel forced, like he's trying too hard to be town. backtracking.
fhqwhads - scumhunting in OU and backtracking.
Maelyn (or 1/2 of Maelyn at least) - some combination of meta, scumhunting in OU, and backtracking.
animorpherv1 - no reason other than it has the most votes.

I like Elli's reasoning and think his aggressive pushing of the wagon is too overt to be scummy. Nico brought up original thoughts, although he hasn't said whether Doc has continued to act this way since he placed his vote. The other three could be hops because they don't add anything that Elli hasn't been promoting. Based on all of day 1, Maelyn and ani's hops are normal because they aren't the active scumhunting types.

This wagon doesn't bother me. Vote stays.