R-SURVIVAL -- Game Over

[HackerHuck]

Gat: Nacho

So it looks like we can still lynch scum that are inside the safezone. It also appears that anyone who uses their dayvig ability is confirmed as town.

[HackerHuck]

Hmm, I just noticed that rule #1 states that pre-game commences when all roles are confirmed in-thread. Is that going to have any impact on what we've already done here?

[HackerHuck]

If your target is inside the safezone, a random pro-town player will die inside the safezone instead.

It implies that at the very least, mafia won't know who's inside the safezone. At least the way I read it... the mafia don't know if their target is in the safezone or not, else it would be pretty pointless to target someone in the safezone... or at the very least it would lower their chance of NKing their target. I'm not sure about it but it's just the way I see it.

I was wondering the same thing. It seems pretty clear to me that a random scum target is better than a "cleared" townie. We only need to be sure that there isn't the random scum with a daykill power. Do we want to do any targeted vigging, like voting someone up to L-1 and then vigging them instead of lynching? We could do that once or twice before lynching someone.

[HackerHuck]

I suspect if there are town power-roles, they may need to be outside the safe zone in order to function. Otherwise game would be breakable by putting the PRs in with a bunch of other people.

I'm not sure I see the value in this comment. Are you perhaps rolefishing?

[HackerHuck]

Mod:

I have some questions:

...
2. Gatekeeper must stay in the danger zone. He can bring a maximum of 3 players inside the safezone each day.
...
7. Players may leave the safezone at any time during the day.

So he can bring in 3 people each day. Is this cumulative, meaning that each day he can add up to 3 more people into the safezone? I assume it also means that he can't put someone back into the safezone if they leave and he's used up his three for the day.

How exactly do people leave? I think I saw somewhere that they can choose to leave, but can the gatekeeper kick them out?
Do they automatically leave the safezone at the beginning of each day?
If we're in the safezone and attempt to use our day-vig ability, what exactly will happen? I assume the shot will fail, but will it be used up?

The answers should confirm this, but if someone doesn't know whether they're in the safezone, they should openly leave before trying out their day-vig.

[HackerHuck]

Albert: can the GAT move people into the safezone publicly if they so choose?

I think yabbaguy is highly likely to be scum personally.

What are you waiting for?

[HackerHuck]

Regis Philbin: All right audience, Ortolan needs your help. On your keypads, either "Open", "Closed", and

"I really don't give a damn about this crap"

... vote now!

*dramatic music*

I also don't get the point behind this poll.

[HackerHuck]

I don't get how the poll is rolefishing, but I got the feeling it was going to be used as a setup. I also don't see how the oldguy's response implied you were town in any way.

[HackerHuck]

Sorry for the double post. Since this is my first vig-fest, I thought I might actually do a little side reading. Which games are good examples of what not to do?

[HackerHuck]

Hacker, "what the hell are you thinking?" sort of implies that Ort is a misguided townie, not scum.

Just repeating what Ortolan said doesn't make it any clearer to me.

Charter- why vote Ellibereth over Cobalt if you're threatening Colbalt with a vig?

[HackerHuck]

Oh, and yes I am playing passively and don't agree that Ortolan was rolefishing, blatantly or otherwise.

[HackerHuck]

Cobalt - why did you decide to do a PBPA on Parama? I noticed that he asked the same question and you chose not to answer.

[HackerHuck]

Cobalt's pretext for suspecting Parama looks dodgy but I'd be far more inclined to attack chamber than Cobalt (plus you do realise two daykills ends the day charter? we could have just discussed then lynched him or someone else. now I think you're scummy too)

While rampant killing seems like fun, it also seems like an easy way for scum to slide to victory. However, until there's some evidence of scum with the daykill ability, I think chamber should be considered town. Not to mention, Charter should have waited to give Nacho a chance to move Chamber into the safe zone.

[HackerHuck]

I didn't realize two kills ended the day. You're being dumb orto, no scum would post nothing then just daykill.

I should amend my prior statement a little. While I don't think that a mafiate would have a daykill ability, I wouldn't put it past Albert to have an SK with a single dayvig in addition to the standard night abilities.

[HackerHuck]

NO! That is horrific play, with a system in place. And I'm sick of putting up the WIFOM that lurkers are just playing to their meta and should be regarded as town for shameless killing. If anything, I'm now deliberating the opposite, possible opportunism.

Absolutely ridiculous. The correct move is to make the scum suspect shoot. Now we've lost 1, most likely 2 townies.

What's your context? I'm not following what you're trying to say.

[HackerHuck]

I really agree with semi-old guy here as well (you now need to go back a page for reference). Going on a lurker hunt for the purposes of a lynch isn't very useful to us right now. We're better off trying to get reads on the active players and trying to get the lurkers to actually post more. Now, if someone just decides to vig a lurker I don't see that as being a bad thing. Lynching a lurker tends to make the voting information less useful, but in this game a vig on a lurker mitigates the scumminess of the easy target. Not to mention a vig might have the added benefit of putting a little fear to the lurkers.

I also agree that we should probably have Charter and Chamber placed in the safe zone today. That way we can avoid the potential of a vig on one of them that hasn't really considered all the angles. We can always still lynch them if we end up having a reason to believe that the scum may have a daykill ability. I don't think it needs to be done publicly unless we've really got doubts about Nachomamma. I also don't understand the recent suspicion on Nachomamma. Has someone put together anything better than Ortolan's case and Ellibereth's gut?

Charter - what tipped the scales for you on Cobalt?

[HackerHuck]

So you don't think that me and chamber are town? I'd love to hear your reasons why.

My two cents on why bird was killed was he was really obviously town.

Considering you were able to shoot, I dont see how you could be scum. Who gives SCUM a dayvig anyways?

Well, because it's easy to confirm anyone who uses a daykill as town.

I'm considering them town for now, but I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there may be a scum role with that ability.

Chamber - why would you want to leave the safe zone? Your kill is used up, so there's no harm to you if you're in there. I also would like to know why Nacho is concerned about not being able to put people in there.

[HackerHuck]

OK, I now understand why you're talking about partnering up charter and not putting him in there with chamber. I didn't realise that the randomly killed townie would be one in the safe zone.

You should probably wait until after the first vig today and see whether that person should go in over chamber. For the partner, I'd pick someone who looks a bit scummy, but that you feel pretty good about them as town.

Ortolan - do you think we're better off questioning Charter or someone who hasn't used their vig yet?

The problem we don't want to fall into is a shoot 'em up- people just trying to figure out who're they want to shoot based on lack of content or nonpresence rather than getting discussion going to get actual information for targetting.

I like this post from Bogre.

Dramonic needs to post something useful and so dos DragonsofSummer.

I'm going to follow yabbaguy's lead because I think he may have something here.

Vote: Elliberith

BTW, I probably won't vig whomever I'm voting for at that time.

[HackerHuck]

Dramonic - Since you're convinced that people with daykills can only be town, why don't we just vote people up and when someone gets to L-1, they daykill the person they find most suspicious. If we only did this, we'd build a list of "confirmed" town and only lynch those who can't deliver on the dayvig.

I think it's a little too easy to do something like this, so while we should probably treat Chamber and Charter as town for now, we will need to keep in mind that it's likely some scum will have daykill ability.

I'm not sure that Ellibereth is really paying close attention if he forgot about me. My vote on him and the votecount are both only two posts prior.

[HackerHuck]

Re: Bogre:
1) Not really sure what kind of buddy, actually. I'm thinking a protown buddy and a neutral read buddy, actually.

Two buddies?
I thought about this a bit and it seems that you want a partner that the scum don't want to kill. That way if the pro-town player turns up dead then you know that the other person is scum and we can just vote them out. On the flip-side, if the buddy dies then the mafia eliminated a scummy looking townie.

Are we getting a replacement for Malpascp or is he just lurking?

[HackerHuck]

What I was saying is based on placing two players in the safe zone - one who we believe to be mostly confirmed and one who appears to be quite scummy. By selecting someone quite scummy to be in the safezone, it's less likely that the scum will target them and end up killing our pro-town player. That means if the pro-town player is killed then we know that the other player in the safe zone is scum. I'm assuming that if the only pro-town player in the safe zone will die if targeted.

Nacho - since we don't know which player the scum are targeting, I'd rather the "confirmed" player dies in exchange for scum, then to have a random pro-town player die. That other problem with two scummy looking people in the safe zone is that's two fewer targets to day-vig.

[HackerHuck]

I'm sick of waiting.
Charter, Chamber, Ort, Semi, DoS, and Yabba are all town. If DK's are to be questioned DoS is the only one I would remove from that list.
Hacker and Anon and Bogre should be scum. Most likely to least in that order.

I left someone out, didn't I? Nach: Try again next time and good night!

Kill: Nacho

How did I manage to go from null-tell to most likely scum so quickly?

Nacho may have snuck some people in, but I kind of doubt it now. There's not too much harm in it though, because we'll find out pretty quickly if someone burns up their dayvig unsuccessfully. There's also a chance that he stuck a townie in there for WIFOM effect if a vig doesn't go through.

Charter - why do you think DoS is so scummy and what do you think about Ellibereth now that he's daykilled scum?

[HackerHuck]

I'm sick of waiting.
Charter, Chamber, Ort, Semi, DoS, and Yabba are all town. If DK's are to be questioned DoS is the only one I would remove from that list.
Hacker and Anon and Bogre should be scum. Most likely to least in that order.

I left someone out, didn't I? Nach: Try again next time and good night!

Kill: Nacho

How did I manage to go from null-tell to most likely scum so quickly?

Nacho may have snuck some people in, but I kind of doubt it now. There's not too much harm in it though, because we'll find out pretty quickly if someone burns up their dayvig unsuccessfully. There's also a chance that he stuck a townie in there for WIFOM effect if a vig doesn't go through.

Charter - why do you think DoS is so scummy and what do you think about Ellibereth now that he's daykilled scum?

[HackerHuck]

You've got to be kidding me. What a waste of a kill.

FWIW, I would not go about just killing those who have yet to kill. I'd be willing to bet that any scum with daykill ability have already used it. Out of that group, DoS is the obvious one, but I'm also not feeling that great about Charter. It seems like he got his kill out of the way and is now trying to lead the town around. You're probably at the point where it's important to discount the value of the confirmation by day-kill and just look at who is scummy.