Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Sajin]

I have now lost my post restriction. (As incredibly obvious that it was me yesterday and I could not confirm it, now I can)

Instead we should vote scum. I can bold now! My case was made in part yesterday. Unfortunately, I must be obvious with this:

Vote: Hayker

Vote: Hayker

@Hayker-Explain why you suspected Iec and yet wagoned with him as the very next vote on DoS. That made little sense from a town scum-hunting standpoint with no reasoning for the switch.

@all-Speculation is scummy, it just gives more information to scum. Speculate AFTER someone claims information....not before. Speculation on the shiny is pointless. I may have it, I may not and I would encourage anyone else to have the same attitude.


@Rayfrost- bus drivers usually redirect actions done ON them....not done BY them. There is a large difference there.

I believe DTM's claim.

[Sajin]

Hi. No, I am not reading 70 fucking pages of what is likely 35 pages fluff, 20 pages set up speculation, and perhaps 15 pages of content. It is, in fact, amazing enough that I replaced into this game in the first place, it being a large theme with a ridiculous amount of pages.

If you want me to know something that happened D1, tell me about it and link me to the event.

Otherwise, I am playing this game from D2 on. That said, could someone direct me to the page D2 starts on? Thanks ^-^.

Iec claimed 1 shot dayvig who vigged Zwet, VT. After being put to L-1.

We lynched DoS.

DGB is responsible for a mod scene of darkness and has claimed miller.

I used to not be able to post in the thread directly because of a post restriction. Now I can.

That covers the hard actions and claims of the day for the most part.

Everything else you can Iso if you wish for reads.

That is the Current List of Awesome (TM!)

[Sajin]

Actually, I never claimed that I was 1-shot IIRC. Rather, someone else speculated that that Jack Sparrow would be 1-shot.

Excuse me then. I stand corrected.

[Sajin]

Yea, only votes.

It does seem a lame scum ability, but none the less it was an ability used, and one that as i said i am guessing was targeted to you since i got it. I will be happily scum hunting today, but unfortunately I will be unable to vote.

Actually....I would not assume that. Well it could be, but I am doubting it is a scum ability (although this is because I know I am town, when I flip town you will probably see the logic too). Additionally this type of ability would be very overpowered on scum.

My double vote is temporary. Just like wolframnhart's no vote is.

I didn't really want to say anything earlier (so as to hide the existence of a potential double vote granter) but I want to stop people from claiming non vote redistributer (because they probably will in discussing this, yes I have no faith) or perhaps there is 2 (a double vote granter and a vote blocker?) In any case, there you go.

In case I need to clarify my vote is normally worth 1. But I had no effective vote yesterday due to post restriction (this is backed up by 26 votes with 27 people alive yesterday which I think was because of me and 23 with 23 people alive today)..so my vote has never been worth 1 yet. This also confirms that someone should of had zero votes today.

I have a few more theories on the matter, but they are not good to discuss at the moment I think.


@Zito- No. Go fish.

@Deathnote- Why did you feel pressured to claim? Explain please.

@Wolf- Even though you are voteless please vote on wagons as if you had one. Its helpful to get reads.

[Sajin]

Who is scum SSK? I would like your opinion about everyone.

@cobalt- interesting ability cobalt. So is he kill immune or thats how the ability works? Becuase if he is not kill immune we should have him vigged (if Iec can do it). Can you clarify your ability?

edit- Ok that makes sense. Daykill is preferred on SSK.

@Hayker-

@Hayker-Explain why you suspected Iec and yet wagoned with him as the very next vote on DoS. That made little sense from a town scum-hunting standpoint with no reasoning for the switch.

Please respond to the quote.

[Sajin]

Cobalt's flip is important. If he flips town we have 2 confirmed scum in Kdub and SSK. Both the flavor arguement and Kdub's info point to the other direction. I do not think Kdub would fake claim to get someone who just claimed 1 shot informational role lynched. So his info is probably legit.

SSK's attitude about his situation rubs me the wrong way.

I think Cobalt should be daykilled (as his flip reveals the most info now) personally but I would support a daykill on either of them. Go for it.

The SSK is kill immune assumption/guess rubs me the wrong way. In order for that to be true (and proven with the ability used in the thread) they both have to be lying....and so why would you care about what order they were lynched in?

[Sajin]

Cobalt was indeed a role that interacted with claims then. Humorous.

Unvote; Unvote; Vote: MafiaSSK

Vote: MafiaSSK

I would love for Hayker to get back here and answer questions.

[Sajin]

It's called, I don't care to fucking try in a game where the town is so goddamn weak it's like screaming at a brick wall.

Normally this would totally pull at my heartstrings but a more parsimonious explanation here is that he sounds like a scum whose team has totally melted down.

Then why were you insisting on SSK to be killed first, reckoner?

[Sajin]

Please I'd like someone to acknowledge having read and absorbed the below:

Hey guys, xRECKONERx has mentioned Cobalt being a third party faction

BEFORE

the reveal:

Being in search of a key? Either irrelevant expository information or

third-party wincon

.

I have read and understood the above.

(Side note, due to LotA I could understand why Reckoner could see grey text and think 3rd party and possibly not anti town. But because he mentioned it before the flip of Cobalt it makes it incredibly suspect)

Personally the mod scene surrounding the flip makes me assume Xigbar was anti town and that we are facing 2 factions.

Side note: Everyone needs to take a chill pill.

Also Sir Chris is not a zazier alt. Posting style is too different. Although I would love to see a game with them both going at each other's throats...it would be pages before anyone would be able to get a word in edgewise!

Yeah, except we'll find out he's really a girl ^-^.

Rofl.

[Sajin]

Well, I suppose we'll find out if he's right or not IF SOMEONE'LL PLZ LYNCH SSK. We can do more guesswork after that.

You do know you were the hammer vote....yes?

[Sajin]

It is possible for you to shoot again today yes Iec? I just want to confirm this.

@Zito- why would you guess 4 and 4? On what basis?

@Sir Chris- You were awesome and a blast to play with, I hope you join other games on this site. Do not let this incident deter you.

I think with the heartless cop dead we are going to need to focus on catching heartless with scumhunting. I need to do some ssk vote wagon/ pressure soon.

Side note- my vote is worth one today as far as I know. But I might as well test it.

Vote: Hayker

[Sajin]

Heyker- Please answer my concerns addressed to you since the start of YESTERDAY/day 1. Your continual dodging of play questions is stupid. You had no stance on SSK nor Cobalt yesterday. Explain or be lynched.

Zito- I find it humorous that you want to pile lurking onto Hayker as yesterday you were hardly present yourself. You had relatively little stance on Cobalt at all yet you were happy to lynch SSK. I find this hypocritical.

DGB- I just thought of something. You claimed miller with no flavor and we have a dead flavor cop (heartless specific). It seems odd to have a generic miller rather than an appears as a heartless/nobody to investigations, no?

Yay an investigation claim! A 1v1 is awesome every time. The only thing I dislike about the informational claim is that it makes this an easy lynch to join for the other scum faction. Also, discussion should not freeze on everything else.

@Zito That is not a claim. I have still not verified I only have 1 vote today or not. If your town you would of already claimed by now.

Unvote; Vote: Papa Zito

[Sajin]

unvote: raider
vote: Papa Zito

This is humorous. You were at L-2 and now L-1. You failed on the self hammer.

Nothing to add?

[Sajin]

No continuation of the fakeclaim, PZ?

Stop taunting him, the poor guy doesn't have the energy to invent a claim and defend it when he's the last scum of his type - or maybe all that's left of the group is Hayker.

Is Sajin a double-voter? A non-voter?

My vote count was 0 (day 1), 2 (day 2), 1 (I think, day 3).


Care to respond to my concern of you?

[Sajin]

And that was fairly obvious: Sora Heartless cop flipped and therefore Roxas Nobody cop. Go figure. 2x kill flavors, kill flavors attached to individuals is most likely.

@Ace- Why does pressure from 1 scum group on someone make the person who was pressured town? Your willing to excuse all of hayker's lack of opinions and mud throwing when he does have opinions simply because Zito flipped nobody? Does it make him unlikely nobody? Probably.

@DGB- I dislike the edit of your claim to flavorized miller. I would think that would have been obvious enough to point out at first and at least not have to be called out on it. Blah. Your play has been pretty town so far but I have been fooled before.

@Kise- Are you trying to be John McClaine now? That just won't do.

@Deathnote- Please give your opinion on people. Thanks.

[Sajin]

I'm 85% sure you and DTM have it backward. Cobalt claimed Mulan. SSK claimed King Mickey. Not that that neutralizes your post.

This is wrong. SSK claimed Mulan, Cobalt claimed Mickey. I see you changed it, but I wanted to point it out.

@Hayker- Your case is based on usurper after Rayfrost lynched nobody? That does not make sense even. Nor does this mechanic make sense in a game with 2 scum groups. Your flailing.

I don't approve of popcorn mass claim.

Whaddya mean??? We may already have caught raider stalling to come up with a fakeclaim. A rolename with no role, that's doesn't pass the test.

I agree with this comment. But I disagree with your plan. Role names may out potential power roles as I have been pointing out for a few days. Since this one has already been claimed I will use it as an exmaple: If someone just claimed Jack Sparrow....I would assume some kind of vig regardless or not if they said such. Same would be true for doctor flavors of people or protective flavors of people or investigative flavors. I do not in any way endorse popcorn name claiming. If we are going to mass claim, we mass claim FULLY. That said, I think its too early. We are not at LY/LO yet.

That being said, I don't like the claim on the table.

@Raider- Simba? Thats it? No Simba- Townie? No King Simba? This smacks of exactly how Zito claimed. Please explain how you had a flavor issue with someone else's claim while not understanding the flavor yourself because I do not see why you would take issue.

Vote: Raider

[Sajin]

I'm still around, but you all post too much and I'm reading older games. If raider is still alive tomorrow I'll catch up from start of D4, ok?

This coming from the person who as town in LOTA forced everyone to rush actions and we literally had <8 hour long days?

Right...

[Sajin]

Excellent.

Unvote Ace right now. His claim is provable as he claimed to get the role details of whoever he targets as well as alignment.

If he is legit, he will have to be nightkilled or it will increase confirms/out scum. If he is not legit he will have difficulty faking.

I propose a Raider or deathnote lynch at this point.

[Sajin]

What did DeathNote do that was so scummy? Could you give me some pages to look at or something?

I suggest taking a closer look at the people that accused him.

Consider me willing to hammer if you do not claim next post. I will explain why after you claim.

[Sajin]

I will elaborate when it is no longer anti-town to do so.

I think it's rather anti town to hold back now. But, whatever. I know you're wrong .

Iec is correct in his reasoning but I do not think UK as scum would make the play that Iec is insinuating here.

[Sajin]

Flare is town.

Iec was obviously accusing you of coaching Flare, UK. Like I said before.

Can we lynch raider please. Thank you.

[Sajin]

Of course it isn't a coincidence. I think you aren't a total idiot, so you read DN in iso and noticed the fakeclaim. It took you awhile to finish reading him, so you had to stall. If I had just replaced into DNscum's slot and people wanted me to claim, I would absolutely iso DN and ctrl+F "claim" at the very least.

Sajin seems to think otherwise.

I'm excited to hear what DTM has on his mind.

I think that if he was scum then he would be overly aware of all posts made by his predecessor.

@Flare- ISO refers to posts by one person in isolation. Using the menu at the bottom of every page you can search for posts made by just one account in the game.

[Sajin]

You have to click the little paper button by the date which will link you to the post in the game and thus give you context, surround posts and page number.

If you do this with a open new window button you can go back and forth to your hearts desire.

[Sajin]

Also -- Sajin made a Die Hard allusion in the middle of all that. Is that a board meme or something? It went over my head.

It is a reference to FF mafia (which ended recently) where I lynched Kise as the mafia roleblocker when I was the cop and the only info I had was that I was roleblocked, town roleblocker was already dead. Snow White understands the reference too I imagine.

Your missing the game balance arguments that I used. And my inate scum read I had on you to begin with but sure. I figured it was ML/LO at the time and I had an innocent and confirmed sanity so I figured it was worth the shot.

This is fairly offtopic though. Can we stay on topic please?

I read Kise pretty well. I think he is town this game. Kise knew exactly what I was asking him.


@Rayfrost- why do you insist on lynching Ace before he tells us what happens with his ability? Even if he is town and roleblocked, that gives us info or frees of DGB to give more info or they both claim roleblocked which ALSO gives us more info. Or he is killed and it removes someone that was likely to be lynched otherwise. Wanting to lynch him now is a waste of resources.

Also, Diz is one of the main characters in Kingdomhearts 2. He would assuredly be anti nobody/town if he was in the game imo. (neither confirming nor denying that this could be me)

@Ace- I would like you to clarify with the mod about your super cop ability. Since it gives you the role PM would this be effective on a miller like DGB? or a investigation immune godfather? Please ask and get back to the thread.

@Iec- Scummiest town player ever? Eh. I generally have a strong day 1 a weak middle game and a very strong game towards LY/LO.

Let's not speculate, please.

Can we lynch Raider already?

@Shotty- What is your reasoning for defending Raider?

Should we go back to mass-nameclaiming?

Hell no.

@Flare- I wrote that. All of Slicey's italicized posts were from me. They only occur on day 1. And no I am not answering that.

There is speculation of my meta, my role and my like or dislike of JPRGs on one page. Sheesh.

I had town reads on both of Plum and Gorrad. (and more were listed later as well as my scum candidates). That is all it was. Its easier for me to get reads on players I have played with before (and most of my reads were on players I have played with or been modded under before)

Speculation is bad. Incomplete speculation is REALLY bad.

[Sajin]

I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

This again? Please stop asking for role PM information from people. If they wish to share it that is one thing. Asking for it is a different thing all together. What the hell do I have to type to get you to stop? Please inform me and I will type it.


@Flare- 1- Yes to the first part. I do not understand the 2nd sentence as a question because its a statement not a question.

2- Yes it can be useful in a general sense. Its harmful in a specific sense. Weigh a claim after, not before.

[Sajin]

Dammit.

I am up for a mass name claim.

I think Ace needs to claim results. Probably after name claims though.

[Sajin]

Umu...wasn't someone else DiZ? I swear I recall someone else claiming that.

And are we really just claiming willy nilly? Who's next shotty?

I did not confirm nor deny I was Diz as I recall.

Since DGB is accusing Shotty of going somewhere he should be next.

[Sajin]

Umu...wasn't someone else DiZ? I swear I recall someone else claiming that.

And are we really just claiming willy nilly? Who's next shotty?

I did not confirm nor deny I was Diz as I recall.

Since DGB is accusing Shotty of going somewhere he should be next.

And I failed on reading Shotty's post. Ok I will go.

I am Genie. Also I will probably full claim by the end of the day. Hold your horses. Names first.

Hayker is up.

Did you really just claim ansem?

Vote: Shotty

[Sajin]

Umu...wasn't someone else DiZ? I swear I recall someone else claiming that.

And are we really just claiming willy nilly? Who's next shotty?

I did not confirm nor deny I was Diz as I recall.

Since DGB is accusing Shotty of going somewhere he should be next.

Sajin, you not-paying-attention-scumbag, he's already claimed, on this very page:

I'm DiZ who I guess is also Ansem? There's like 3 dudes named Ansem that I could find and my avatar is one of them, so that was a breadcrumb. I'm the former ruler of the Radiant Gardens. I gained the powers of darkness when I escaped the realm where my apprentices (who are the Nobodies??) imprisoned me.

I could say the same of you

[Sajin]

I could say the same of you

I'm not paying attention???

We both posted without reading what was posted just earlier.

Anyways, Hayker's turn to claim. We will do this popcorn style or we won't get anywhere.

[Sajin]

I am Genie. Also I will probably full claim by the end of the day. Hold your horses. Names first.

Did you read the rest of the line DGB?

[Sajin]

I wasn't saying that Ace was town; I was saying that I didn't understand why it was odd that aceTown would be shocked that DGB was not roleblocked given that he wasn't. I mean, we all find it suspicious that ace wasn't roleblocked. Why isn't it suspicious that DGB wasn't roleblocked given aceTown?

Not that there aren't independent reasons to find Ace scummy. (As things are, I'll vote him for the reasons I already indicated and some reasons others have indicated once we're finished with the nameclaims and so forth.) Just that choosing bad reasons to damn someone is kinda scummy.

My flavor speculation on Sajin-the-summon applies, but I'll wait to hear his alternate explanation before I start that. ^^;

DGB, are those based on VCA, other tells, or both?

I did start unaligned! However, the "I will help you bit" and reasoning that you think Gorrad was my master is quite falicious. I was post restricted from saying what actually helped me. After all, that is not when I lost my post restriction. I can point to one exact post where I joined the game.

Also, Genie cannot kill, cannot make people fall in love, and cannot bring back the dead. Try again. (You have been wanting to speculate all game and I have been calling you off. Since I am full claiming today, I am totally fine with it now. And my role PM is way to epic to go to waste.)



Also, lets not lynch anyone until the following happens:

Starbuck name claims.

DGB confirms tracker result.

I full claim.

agreed?

[Sajin]

DGB confirms tracker result.

All my results are out. What more to say?

So last nights result was?

Correct me if I missed it.

[Sajin]

Obviously, Sajin has nothing to do with my being roleblocked, haha.

I could of sworn you said you tracked someone to the dead. So your confirming roleblocked then?

Oh and Rayfrost will not be bringing anyone back from the dead. This includes himself.

His power was not triggered, he had to choose to use it, and required his death/suicide/removal from the game in order to bring someone back. He would of likely used it tonight though.

Request prod on Starbuck

[Sajin]

The dead scum:

11. MafiaSSK, Captain Hook, Heartless Janitor, lynched Day 2.
3. wolframnhart, Ursula, Heartless Doctor, cut into pieces Night 4.

18. Cobalt, Xigbar, Nobody Claim Killer, shot Day 2.
1. Gorrad, Xemnas, Nobody Godfather, exploded Night 2.
17. Papa Zito, Xaldin, Nobody Thief, lynched Day 3.

Look.

Red scum has a player that prevents reveals from a death. Obviously, his target was never the target of a kill. They also have a doctor to protect their own. Conclusion: if a vig kill failed, it was on a scumbag.

Blue scum as the Claim Killer, a Godfather, and a Thief (investigative role).

It makes sense that the red scum would have an investigative role too, like, say, ace3218. I really want ace5478 dead.

Also. I bet that the last blue scum is VANILLA scum. And that the remaining red scum is also VANILLA scum.

Starbuck is surely one. Hayker, with his obscure character that no one remembers being in the game without double-checking the wiki, is the other.

The game is cracked, let's get this thing rolling and win it.

I think for balance sake Heartless would have an investigation immune godfather (not kill immune, as gorrad died at night).

Additionally, I find it incredibly humorous that you think there is 2 more vanilla scum....while simultaneously claiming roleblocked a few nights.

If the scum are vanilla, who is blocking you?


@all- Lets assume 2 heartless and 1 nobody remain. Can everyone plug in who they think fits each of these slots? Alternatively, if you think some other variation of scum remain, please list that theory and who you think best fits your theory.

@Shotty- I started the game unaligned. Thats not to say I still am, sir.

[Sajin]

Day 1 I was stuck in the lamp. I knew I would be freed at the start of the day on day 2 by method of PMing the mod about the shiny dropped in the thread. I was post restricted about revealing who I was, what the lamp did and why I had to talk through the mod. I was permitted only to say that I must be helped.

I gained the alignment and nightchat with whoever picked up the shiny.

And Rayfrost picked me up. Because he was town and I became his alignment, we were effective masons.

(its fairly obvious exactly when I joined the thread, the votes in play jumped by 2....guess who had 2 votes that day, you can also look at rayfrost verbage after the shiny was picked up. I can go quote it if you like.)

The fact that rayfrost picked me up sortof neutered his role, his masonship with me was more useful, otherwise he would of brought plum back. Why? Because of my Wish ability.

Want to know how Rayfrost knew Zito was a nobody? That was me. (the info went to me, we established a code to communicate the info in the day time and Rayfrost called zito out. Notice how I did not post for a while that day and then when I did, Rayfrost immediately calls Zito out with secret one shot info? Yep.

Btw, my wishes work functionally as: is this person town, heartless, nobody or other. GF investigation immunity and millers still apply. (and this is another reason I asked DGB about the miller ability, that would not make sense to show up as heartless and nobody to me).

My wishes can actually do more things then just investigate but I really do not find that particularly good to discuss at this time.

And lastly my role name: Genie, Town (formerly Unaligned) Jack of ALL Trades.

Also I have an innocent (thats neither heartless, nor nobody, could be godfather though) remaining. Do not lynch anyone until I get back to the thread.

(Also I am going out of town for most of this weekend, so I will answer questions when I get back)

[Sajin]

Did either of you breadcrumb this anywhere? If not, what was the communication code?

How many wishes are used up? Can you personally use any wishes that remain? If you used them D2D3D4, why didn't you claim masons D4?

Do you know how your abilities might have been different if a different alignment had found you?

Please justify the "I'll help you"/"Courage!" business. What was the function of the former? If there was no function, why did you request it? (To anyone) What was Gorrad thinking about when he posted the latter?

You found Ray's breadcrumb. The code was simply what vowel I used to start off the day. O stood for nobody.

Why would we claim masons? 2 people knowing my info was good and we felt that both of us would unlikely die. Zero reason to claim unless we were in lynch range. Not answering the other part as I do not consider it good to do so.

My abilities would not be any different, but my usage and or choices probably would of. I could lawyer scum (temporary godfather), I can motivate (make someone else get 2 actions) etc etc. If I was partnered with a cop I could reflect actions off of them. This is a freaking awesome role and I am happy that everyone is able to be told about it before the end of the game. I am sad that I basically neutered Rayfrost's role though (it would of been better if he was vanilla, honestly, I feel it worked out ok)

I can't justify the responses I received only what I posted. And since I did not know what alignment I was going to end up, that was setting up a fakeclaim in case I needed to be bussed. Be happy I drew town My fake claim was going to be awesome. (Zito, this will teach you to not rolefish the PRed guy. Thanks!). You can't really blame me for setting up a fake claim while I was possibly scum, can you?

The double vote was not the result of my actions or anything that I know of. It is however likely someone who interpreted my pleas for help as using a beneficial night action on me. Also, I could of kept the fact that I had a double vote more secretive then I choose to do. If this happens again, someone will likely know what I am talking about.

@DTM- I am most certainly not claiming actions. If I thought it would be beneficial at this time I would. I am just claiming now so my information does not die with me. Or perhaps I wished for a bulletproof vest. Perhaps I have a reflect/redirect ability that will stop any kind of actions from properly working on me. Perhaps I have nothing at all. My wishes are not used up unless they actually do something.

@Snow White- My alignment cannot change again. If I was indeed stuck in the lamp again, I would be post restricted again etc etc. Not to mention that would be the stupidest role ever as I basically could not lose ever. 1 day of unaligned is enough for me, thanks.

Did I miss any?

@all- I am waiting for everyone to give me their scum lists before I post my innocent. If you have not posted a list and are pushing for someone's lynch, that is incredibly anti-town to me. This should not be hard at this point in the game.

Additionally, I am doubtful of Ace being scum based on role existence, that argument is crap. My abilities were not guaranteed to be on town's side and 1 shot anything cop+1 heartless cop+ nobody cop does not seem that imbalanced to me. While yes it is rather unfortunate that he seems to have targeted dead scum, I would not lynch him today.

Also. I would like to hear Iec's flavor.

[Sajin]

Lame, I was going to extreme measures to cover up the nature of this ability. Blah. My singular vote counted for 2 during day 2 and I did not need to visually vote twice.

And Ladies, Please. Civil conversations.


@FL- Please consider that Cobalt was not trying to survive but rather to get a counter claim. In fact, because of his apparent claim killing power, it would of been to his advantage to get claims on the table and doing what he did would of done that. To make the assumption that scum must have no fake claims because one scum apparently did not use/have one is fallacious. I sure did not forget but perhaps I understood with a grain of salt, fair enough?

@DTM- I actually could rolecop.....but then I would get abilities only and not alignment. Additionally if I was simply a member of a mafia it would not explain the shiny/post restriction. Nor does your theory explain Rayfrost's comments.

(scum lists + innocent will be posted after I get off work)

@DGB- Are your abilitiy(s) named?

[Sajin]

@DGB- Are your abilitiy(s) named?

While true DGB that some of the questions that Starbuck is asking are either unanswerable or pointless to answer, I do not think they all are.

Will you answer my question?

[Sajin]

Why on earth did SW claim?

Also, wasn't it WFH who was voteless D2? Did we just interpret it improperly?

No idea.


Read the thread? (cough, bus drivers)


@DGB- no miller ability?

[Sajin]

@Town

Snow White is Confirmed Double Voter Townie

I do not see anything in your post that confrims it. I believe you but others might not.

Snow's action failed because of DTM's claimed action. Snow is clear if DTM is clear which is fairly likely.

Got it?

[Sajin]

It certainly seems that way. You probably could've just claimed that you could confirm her N4 action, though.

And no he could not have. I would of been all up in that soft claim of clearing someone's action. DTM probably knows this.

You know what?

unvote; Vote: Hayker

Care to give your take on whats going on?

[Sajin]

Thanks DGB.


I think scum is of Hayker, Shotty, and UK


Btw, I just want to point out that we have 6 full claims on the table. (snow, DTM, Iec, Flare, DGB, Me) If we do not MC today, I think we should do so tomorrow.

Starbuck is innocent btw.....or at least does not show up as heartless/nobody to cop investigation. Discuss.

[Sajin]

And Ace has claimed making 7 of 11 full claims.

I propose MC. Anyone have any objections?

[Sajin]

Mass Claim.

[Sajin]

Ace seems like an easy lynch. Many people have jumped on others reasoning for lynching him and I feel like its a stupid lynch. I play my town reads just as much as I play my scum reads.

Additionally I doubt that the last remaining of a scum team would claim 1 shot informational role. And while possible I think would be a poor fake claim for a GF too. Additionally I think that role makes sense for namine and, because my own role could of been sided with scum, is absolutely balanced for town to have (which is another major reason he was wagoned)

The last reason, he investigated the now dead, is probably the only somewhat valid case on him. I still find it weak.

Rather than ask why do I think Ace, I ask you- Why not hayker? Or Shotty?

I think both of those have much greater chances of not only being scum but also being one of the preferred targets of a nobody (presumably the last, removes a kill) or the godfather (figured for setup balance, clears starbuck as per me).

My read on Kise was similar but was based on meta. Had he been wagoned further I would of presented my case on why he was town. I even had him pegged as power too. (and no, I am not typing this now, will be more useful for my next game)

And as a mafia theory sidenote, finding town is just as if not more important than finding scum and on that note:

1- Also I am fairly sure DGB is town. Not scum.

2- I am fairly sure UK is NOT a nobody. Likely scum though.

And Iec, remember last game we played when I thought Zwet was town and I did not want to hammer and then deadline came? Exactly the same opinion here. I think Ace is a bad lynch but he is not the worst lynch and while I would deadline lynch, it seems bad to me.

[Sajin]

To answer your question:

Sajin, I don't think any of your purported scum seem particularly town

, so that doesn't alarm me. But why do you think Ace is town?

I agree that Ace is a popular lynch. I also agree that that can be alarming. But it could also indicate that his friends are absent, few, or bussing him. Any of those are reasonable under the circumstances IMO.

True. But that is not my only reason.

[Sajin]

@DTM-

1-I tagged zito. Not Ray.

2- Additionally Starbuck is investigated non heartless non nobody.

It seems like you have not read the last few pages....

If your asking if I can use the same power repeatedly, then yes I can. I have a restriction that fits loosely with a classic joat and is modified to fit flavor of my character (and no its not very protown to discuss the restriction. Thank you). Please note that my role name is Jack of ALL Trades.

@Iec- Ok. I agree with some of that. But you still have not stated why not Shotty or Hayker.

@Starbuck- That argument fails as for that to be convenient as you imply, both UK and DGB would have to be nobody scum. This does not make sense for either of them honestly.

[Sajin]

Which COMPLETELY precludes her from being a godfather amirite?

Go look at my original post claiming this. I think I considered it. However, this still means she should not get lynched until LY/LO and we try to lynch a GF first as this could potentially get a clear.

Wanting to lynch her before then is downright scummy.

What do you think of Hayker and Shotty, UK?

[Sajin]

Not sure why we did not wait for claims. Meh.

[Sajin]

Exploded is the heartless kill flavor then (has killed a nobody in the past)

Sucked into a black void was likely Zexion's/nobodies by both process of elimination and flavor.

Cut to Pieces is Vig/SK (has killed both heartless and nobody).


I will save the rest of my analysis until this gets done though:

Claims: Shotty, UK, Starbuck.

[Sajin]

@Shotty- Claim rolename. Thanks. Kinda vanilla sorta but not really is not an answer.

[Sajin]

Starbuck investigated as town. She is either town or investigates as town.

I am surprised no one asked me for another result.



I really dislike the town vengeful lyncher claim. Vengeful is generally where you get to kill someone on your wagon....

Care to explain that part shotty?

[Sajin]

Hang on.

Unvote

.

So long as you're so good at this game, what about UK?

ALL blue scums had a power role. I assume that all red scums do, too. UK does not have a power role. She is not the last red scum. If the scum had one team mate without a power role, that would be the player chosen to send the kill. UK did not send a kill on Night 2. She is not the last red scum.

She is not the last red scum.

This was unnecessary to post. But hey it makes you look even more town. Can we not just hand out obvious kill targets to scum?


I am down with a shotty lynch.

Vote: Shotty

That may be how you interpret vengeful, I highly doubt that is what Slicey would call it. This makes it more likely a false claim. I will add this to the top of the mountain of evidence against you.

I do support the more content from Starbuck. Starbuck- Why should we not think you are a SK? If not you, who is doing the cut to pieces flavor?

I am considering lynching starbuck tomorrow....but damn that sucks.

[Sajin]

You'd think he'd have let Starbuck do her iso.

Not if he's caught scum frustrated to have been caught "for bad reasons."

I guess in his opinion.

Honestly, have you seen a town lyncher or a vengeful that has nothing to do with kills on the entire site?

I hate self hammers from any player of any faction besides jesters though. Meh.

[Sajin]

But I am a bulletproof.

And let's not mention that Flare never showed up yesterday. He was avoiding the thread.

Vote: Flare

If you are actually a bulletproof, you were investigated innocent.

Why the hell would you claim bulletproof then? I would of actually believed you more if you said today that 'hey I am actually a vanilla, I claimed BP to try and avoid being killed because I was investigated innocent'....but no. Your motivation for claiming BP is flawed. Its more likely to be an excuse of why you still remain alive or a fake claim then it is town play.

Could you respond to this (as well as all the questions of you yesterday)? As of right now I see you as an SK who is rushing a vote.

Top Suspects in order:

Starbuck- Claimed bulletproof once cleared. This is fail in so many different ways. General scummy behavior and has not pushed many lynches.

Iecerint- Cut into piece with a gun flavor makes sense from Captain Barbosa who could potentially be a SK. It would be weird combining day and night kills but its something I can see Slicey giving a SK. Additionally Iec would likely keep me around because I know his vig meta. Play seems town though. By far a lesser suspect for me then Starbuck.

Flare- Likely town. This is mostly based on a meta read on deathnote who I have played several theme games with. Flare seemed helpful until he flaked recently.

UK- Cleared by track, DGB. That is probably more solid then any read could give at this point.

[Sajin]

Out of curiosity, Sajin, what would DNSK look like, and how would that be different from what we got?

I would refer you to mafia dodgeball but that would be an inaccurate account of his meta as it was being played by someone else.

Legacy of the Ancients is a decent summation of his scum meta.

My town read on Flare really has very little to do with Flare and everything with deathnote.

[Sajin]

If you are actually a bulletproof, you were investigated innocent.

Why the hell would you claim bulletproof then? I would of actually believed you more if you said today that 'hey I am actually a vanilla, I claimed BP to try and avoid being killed because I was investigated innocent'....but no. Your motivation for claiming BP is flawed. Its more likely to be an excuse of why you still remain alive or a fake claim then it is town play.

This is because I am a town bulletproof.

With all those bullets and such that were flying at the beginning of the game, I don't see why it's so hard to fathom that a Town BP is in the game.

Could you respond to this (as well as all the questions of you yesterday)?

Which questions from yesterday? Can you link me to the post(s)?

I don't really find this an adequate reason for you to claim BP even if you are a BP.

You did not address the main point of my question.

[Sajin]

Nice to meet you. Claim your role and abilities immediately. Failure to do so may result in your swift death.

First, I'd like to get a handle on what's going on...I'm not reading 169 pages, so someone give me the low down please...

Who of the living has claimed, what have they claimed, what's important? And what's with this post? What did Flareonage do?

UK Is Jack Skellington, Vanilla

Iec Is Jack Sparrow 2 Shot day vig. Spent

I am Genie- 3 shot JoAT (and recruitable/post restricted). Spent

Starbuck is Cloud Bulletproof

Flare has not claimed yet. Mass claim is overdue. Go for it.


BTW, Iec I do not believe we have verified this: I would like you to attempt to daykill me now.

[Sajin]

I'll be happy to pretend to kill you, too, after this doesn't work.

Forgiven.

And I think you are town too based on play. But my meta read on deathnote is strong, you can just see it in the playstyles and voting patterns.

Starbuck is probably the SK and if there is not an amazing response of some kind pointing out a bunch of things I missed I am probably going to vote that direction.

[Sajin]

Thanks for claiming Cry.

For your information, I lied to you. Deathnote and Flare had both claimed the same thing (Jiminy Cricket, VT).

You passed the test.

Also the nobodies were another mafia group. Based on kill flavors, they shared a kill with differing flavors for each person.

We are looking for what is likely one remaining scum who has cut into piece flavor. No one is a claimed vigilante and cut into pieces has killed both heartless mafia and nobody mafia. Thus its likely a SK. Its been present every day.

Thats the basic summary. Also I have an investigated town on Starbuck. And the dead town DGB claimed a track of nowhere on UK on a night where cut in to pieces happened.

Side note- Zito of the nobody mafia claimed donald. I think each mafia member had a safe flavor claim.

@Starbuck- Obviously DGB had a role. Are you really trying to discredit the tracking result? We had a co busdriver role as well as me Jack of ALL Trades which are both not standard (albeit variations of standard) roles.

And you did not explain why you claimed BP when you did. Thats what I am waiting for.

[Sajin]

Also, sorry for the TP, why is DG the only one who hasn't claimed? At least, he wasn't on Sajin's list of claimees...

DGB died last night (its not updated on the front page due to backup mod being unable to edit posts)

Was a vanilla that had an option to take off a blindfold. This caused a release of darkness simultaneously making her a miller as well as bestowing tracking powers.

What did you want me to clear up about my investigation? It returned town. I was suspicious about her play and it is the reason why Rayfrost and I decided to investigate her. Her play has not improved. I said I had an innocent all day when I said this. I said non heartless non nobody because it was the clearest I could make my investigation. Why? because unlike a standard cop investigation, my investigation actually showed what alignment said person was sided under. (As evidenced by Rayfrost knowing that more than Zito=Scum, he knew Zito=nobody because of me). Starbuck investigated town. She is therefore town or she investigates as town. If you vote her you clearly believe the latter....which is not a very far nor hard logical leap.

(Also of note DGB claimed to be investigated as a Heartless, not just as generic scum)

What role did cloud play? He helped fight during one story sequence in Hallow Bastion in KH2. He comes in a few flavor scenes to offer comments but he is not as prominent as Leon or Merlin etc etc for a similar role.

But if Starbuck is a serial killer its more likely she is really Sephiroth who is the side quest boss for KH 2 that is quite hard even with maxed equips.

[Sajin]

Cloud works for Hades at first during the first KH. Hades hires him as a mercenary to kill Hercules. It doesn't work for whatever reason, and Hades gets grouchy and summons a hydra.

This is true. I forgot about this, been a while since I played KH1.

[Sajin]

Flare didn't include the information about Sora/Donald/Goofy IIRC. Let me find the claim.

He claimed the notes part. Or at least deathnote did.

And no that does not clear you. I still have a solid town read on you from Deathnote's meta though.

And enough of this stupid Wifom going on in my head. I am voting my innocent because its driving me insane.

Yes deathnote mentions oblivion. Can we cut this discussion off? Assuming cry is town, he is probably playing with the edges of quoting PM territory likely. I don't want any modkills taking away another shot.

Anyone care if I hammer?

[Sajin]

Fair enough. Just a word of caution, cry.

Vote: Starbuck

Claim does not make sense given events in the game.

Not scum hunting, defensive play.

[Sajin]

Fair enough.

Just a word of caution, cry.

Vote: Starbuck

Claim does not make sense given events in the game.

Not scum hunting, defensive play.

Whoa, could you explain the meaning of this post?

My reasoning for finding starbuck scummy?

[Sajin]

No that is Starbuck. She claimed bulletproof after I said she was investigated innocent. Then reaffirmed it later.

Why would someone who is actually a bulletproof do that? Answer: they would not. They would claim something else to try and soak up kills to gain more lynches.

Only the top line was addressed to you....sorry for being unclear.

[Sajin]

Woot! Hammer on my investigated innocent.......was good. Figured that was why I was still alive.

Another game where I was a investigative role with mason powers. Those 2 things combined are ridiculous. When used correctly, it becomes really hard to figure out where it is coming from.

I thought the game was really swingy when I saw my role PM.....I had a very strongly innate higher win chance then everyone else. Llama, you can answer my 4th wish questions now. I am assuming my role was balanced by virtue of being post restricted....everyone knew I was some kind of role. But still.....day 1 was awesome!

I would really like to see the scum QTs. Thanks.

And Zito...don't rolefish me. Thanks. Your welcome btw.

Although.....I really did like my Captain Barbosa theory. But that BP claim with the investigation combined with play was too much for me to handle.

I almost want to see how this game would of played out had I joined a scum team....I told you Gorrad....you should of helped me

[Sajin]

RF and my QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/LaYx7hw8ewG

And my actions were done on 1 heartless, 1 nobody and 1 SK. I find that extremely humorous.

[Sajin]

Here is my role PM. It was awesome:

Welcome to Kingdom Hearts Mafia, Sajin. You are Genie,

Independent Jack of ALLTrades.

You are one of the most powerful beings in the universe; you can do anything at the snap of a finger. That is, if your master lets you of course. Ah, the price you have to pay for being all-powerful. You’re interested to see what kind of master you’ll have this time around, whether they be good, evil or something in between. Your abilities are:

Stuck in the Magic Lamp: At the beginning of the game, you will be stuck in the magic lamp. You will be unable to post in the game. However, you cannot be killed while you are stuck in the lamp.

You Talkin’ To Me?: Since you cannot post until you’re freed, anything and everything you want to say will go through me. You PM me what you want to say and I will post it for you. Everything I post that you write with will be italicized. You are not, however, allowed to say why you must talk through me, your role or anything about the magic lamp (such as when it appears and what it will do.) Any PM containing information along those lines will not be posted.

Master: The lamp will appear at the beginning of Day 2. Nobody will know that it’s the lamp, just that it’s “something shiny.” When someone picks up the lamp, that person will become your master. You will share the same win condition as your master. You are allowed to talk to your master at night and anyone else your master is allowed to talk to. You are free to post regularly and your post restriction (as outlined in Mod Communication) will be removed as soon as someone picks up the lamp.

Jack of ALL Trades: Being Genie, you can do everything. And I mean everything. Each night, you can target one person with any night action, such as doctor, roleblock, cop, jailbreak, track, watch and so on and so forth. However, you do have some restrictions. You cannot:
1. Kill anyone.
2. Make anyone fall in love (AKA make lovers)
3. Bring back anyone from the dead (AKA revive)
You are allowed only three actions. After that, you cannot do anything.

Your win condition is dependent on who becomes your master.

Note: I highly suggest you check with me to make sure an ability is allowed because there are probably some abilities I haven’t thought of yet that wouldn’t be allowed.

Please confirm via PM.

[Sajin]

Nope, thats the exact reply you should of given me looking at the role PMs. I would of expected town results on Godfather's too. Thats the trade off between cop and track, and I was allowed to make that choice.

For my 3rd action I considered watching DGB too (to find her killer or her roleblocker, or to accuse her of lying about being blocked, as any of this would be useful). I wish I would of done it in retrospect, but I wanted to stay alive....so I did an action that would protect me as well as possibly generate info. But it didn't.

[Sajin]

Hobo was awesome.

Can we see the list of things Zito was eligible to steal from people?

[Sajin]

I guess my odds were pretty good in this game, but as a role-blocker I was happy even from N1 I had PRs picked out and never blocked a vanilla.

I had a good time all and all. I had my claim all planned out from D1, I knew quite a bit more about the flavor then I was willing to let on and I picked the wrong Ansem and such on purpose to strengthen my claim. My obvious 'doh' style mistake was I didn't think up a rolename for the claim I'd thought up and I was caught with the bag on that one.

I loved the set-up, I have only one complaint. The method of distributing Sajin was ewww at best, I'm not sure if you meant for him to fall into town hands but it was almost ensured and having to be on watching for day starts to get an additional faction member is a bit lame especially since it turned out to be a game-making play as you noted.

While I agree, I did notice that Slicey posted the exact time that the thread was to be open later on (Duh, I was paying a ton of attention to the thread at this time. Since I would of received instant notification of my whole scum team, etc etc). I think it was fair.

Its better than random imo as it would of been narrowed down to people who were on at that time.

I am curious though at who was "ineligible" for the shiny as noted on day 2.

Btw, I am fairly certain that even had I joined mafia or the SK, I would not have been able to make factional kills. I would like to know the answer though.

[Sajin]

Also, the shiny distribution method rewarded activity (not a bad thing to do) and my role was also designed to give lots to talk about. It was really quite elegant that way.

Day 1: Mod Voice discussion

Day 2: Shiny Discussion

Later on: Recruitable Mason, Joat/Wish, unaligned discussion.


Who liked all of my quoted game script to go along with my role? (that all came from me, not Slicey....Gorrad even figured out some of the breadcrumbed stuff )

[Sajin]

I liked the D1 part of it, I guess I don't like the idea in general that one of the players has an 'unknown' alignment and all factions have to be balanced around that. Like Slicey said, the scum had to be weakened in case we received an extra member and the odds of scum receiving it were rather low. Just my opinion, I think it was done in a better way then just random rolling it to someone, but I don't like the concept at all tbh.

I think 9 scum of 27 was quite enough already, yet you think you were weakened? (And heck factoring in the 2 modkills, 9/25. That is 36 percent scum!)


I distinctly remember praying please don't dayvig me....as I was immune to being killed while post restricted and I could not claim that and it would of led to my lynch most likely.

[Sajin]

And yes I remembered my rules!


I would of had a ridiculous time explaining my real role if I had been sided with scum anyways.

[Sajin]

The other Nobody role was Demyx, Nobody Janitor.

Also, other roles that were originally in but were cut out:

Donald, Town Magician (kind of like a JoaT, except he wouldn't know what action would do what)
Goofy, Town Awesome Guy (unlynchable Double Voter, obviously broken and was removed right away)
Kairi, Resilient Beloved Princess (one shot BP)
Jiminy, Lie Detector

Beloved Princess is hard to balance....you already had Genie for a swingy role.

Goofy is broken with any kind of protective role.

Donald is like a MUP from xylbot. Not broken but use of random roles tend to be less used on forum games (because they suck for discussions)

I guarantee if Spyrex was working on this game he axed the lie detector off as the very first thing. Right, Spyrex?