A Roccisi Winter - Game Over

[Sopianae]

Vote: tatetothetot

bandagon gogogo

[Sopianae]

Shit, son. I go away for half a day and this is what I get? Activity, seriously?

Now I gotta read up. Hold on.

tubby, pact: this discussion was fine in International Mafia, but I don't want this again. There's no real value to it, but it does bring cliquey behavior and unnecessary arbitrariness into the picture. And the fact that you state that "it's a way to get out of RVS" robs it even of the debatable value of promoting discussion, since it only does that if we (appear to) take it seriously.

And please, czar, no roleplaying. It's a complete waste of text, functionally speaking. I'm glad you don't seem to be keeping it up.

So I open the floor, doesn't anyone have past experience with players here that would warrant a policy lynch?

No, but thats not saying much I have limited experiance on MS.

Nor do I, but I probably wouldn't be happy with a policy lynch anyway, unless it's a really good reason to do it.

Nice filler post. You managed not to say anything of actual relevance.

Holy cow, everybody should vote tubby asap. That whole "pact" thing is ridiculus.

vote: tubby216

Aaand nice jump on the bandwagon of negativity regarding tubby's pact. "Ridiculous" is not a tell of alignment in any sensible argument.

I'm interested in whether charter has a reason for his vote. Yes/no will suffice.

[Sopianae]

Oh yeah.

unvote, vote: kyle

[Sopianae]

@charter, nhammen, kyle99: do you know who Socrates's alt is?

No idea, sorry.

Another irrelevant post. Thank you for confirming that you don't care about scumhunting. Although I think kyle's metagame should be scrutinized, I get the vibe that he isn't really useful regardless of alignment. I intend to get to it on the weekend.

DeathNote or whoever your in-game account is: why comment on the "RVS" ending? What purpose does that serve, and why unvote?

tajo: I disagree with kyle voting tubby, yes. tubby's pact suggestion is in no way a scumtell.

I'm not really comfortable with setting a specific number of lynches we want to achieve on D1. I agree with tajo here. All I know is more than one per day is good.

Adel post 100: hunting for neighbors? I don't like this.

tatetothetot post 113 reeks of fencesitting. The RVS unvoting and the unwillingness to vote his top suspect are really not helpful at all to scumhunting. tate/kyle connection?

Adel 125: why suddenly apply pressure on Bogre? Did ortolan's shot in the dark hit a little too close to home?

[Sopianae]

Tubby acting the same way he did as scum...hmmm...what constitutes a scum tell for you?

How stupidly misleading a question. Are you claiming that scum only exclusively do scummy things?

A scumtell, for reference, is something that scum have more motivation to do than town. If you can explain to me how tubby proposing a pact would be something that scum are more likely to do than town, I would be much obliged.

[Sopianae]

No. I called it scummy. In my opinion it's inherintly scummy and can only benifit scum. What part of that isn't a scum tell then epecially given:

A scumtell, for reference, is something that scum have more motivation to do than town.

Great, use me to back you up. Except you don't show

how

what tubby did is a scumtell, and I refuse to accept your claim at face value. I don't agree that it's inherently scummy.

The tubby wagon is pointless. You can dismantle it now.

[Sopianae]

I think that move of his is scummy as all get out, and I was waiting for something like it: he was trying to associate a threatening player with a claimed miller who is likely scum. If I hadn't challenged him, then that alleged association with the claimed miller would be subliminally set in the minds of all of the other town players.

That's all fine and dandy, but why attack Bogre and not ortolan with your question? ortolan is scummy by way of trying to pin the blame for a hypothetical situation on you without any real basis. Bogre is scummy only by virtue of his claim. And I don't think Bogre is necessarily scummy for that claim, either. Possibly lynchworthy, yeah, but I'd rather see his play to judge his alignment.

Bogre: read my fucking posts instead of implying I haven't been looking for scum. My top suspects include kyle, Annachie, and Benmage, in no particular order. Adel is bordering on interesting as well.

I agree that tubby should be contributing more, but he's generated some discussion, so for the time being I'm not really uncomfortable with him.

Neopi 164 is terrible logic. SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW THE PACT IS SCUMMY.

ORTOLAN, DAMMIT. DON'T REPLY TO POSTS SENTENCE BY SENTENCE. IT'S A WASTE OF FUCKING SPACE. Also, you're getting really defensive. The case on you is at least partly valid. Your "short reply" in 195 is short, granted, but it's also irrelevant to the game and only adds unnecessary personal conflict. I'm starting to be convinced by Adel's argument.

TATE FUCKING STOP THE WALLS OF POSTING. And could you please explain any accusations instead of throwing buzzwords (like "filler space") around? If you actually read the post you quoted, I ask multiple questions, and I give opinions and reads. Either you are incompetent or you are trying to make me look bad. You choose which.

Tate jumps on the Bogre wagon at a pretty opportune time, without any real reasoning. There are more valid arguments around that have been stated than "miller reason". Add him to my scumlist.

nhammen, why are you tying me to tubby? I'd appreciate it if you showed the connection.

I despise alts

Good for you that you know who I am, then.

I don't really care whether tate reveals his main account, although a little background metagame never hurts.

[Sopianae]

Sorry, no. I missed your question.

What are some things, scum would have more motivation to do than town?

Scumtells are not really fixed. You have to consider site meta, player meta, game meta to get a full picture of possible motives. Ultimately it's always you who decides whether scum have more motivation to do something than town; as long as you can explain it with a valid argument I will accept your read, even if I don't agree with it.

[Sopianae]

Uh. Something that he did once before as scum isn't necessarily a scumtell. You haven't explained how he's more likely to do it as scum, therefore it's not really a worthwhile argument that you're making.

[Sopianae]

Ecto, I was replying to Benmage.

Buttonmen: the pact is irrelevant. It is useless, but it is not inherently pro- or anti-town. It is not a worthwhile topic to discuss.

[Sopianae]

How many times must someone act scummy as scum before it becomes a scum tell?

YOU HAVEN'T SHOWN HOW IT'S SCUMMY

Well, until now, although I have to argue.

2. I can see it as something scum to latch on to with out taking a forefront position. They can coast/follow others/pact sentiment. Others members of the pact (town members) might develop a more forgiving eye (even on a slightly subconscious level) toward scum slips/tells from pact members.

Doesn't that make the pact itself pro-town? If you know scum will latch onto it, you will know where to look for scum. And the members of the pact have their own free will to vote people, despite whatever stupid rule was made to govern them.

The pact itself is not scummy. I can't comprehend why you see it as such. People who want to be in the pact are the ones who are scummy, not the one suggesting it.

[Sopianae]

tate (if tate is DN, I'm policy-lynching him)

I'm in.

Ben, can you explain why DN's presence would warrant a policy lynch? I would like to hear your version.

[Sopianae]

I would like Benmage to be the first to answer why DN needs to be policy lynched.

[Sopianae]

You actively defending tubby

Okay, from a certain perspective that's true. But I'm not defending tubby no matter what, I'm saying that the pact argument is bullshit and holds no water despite its apparent popularity.

Don't have time for much more, I'll need to read pages 11-15 later.

[Sopianae]

Bogre, I resent any accusation that I'm lurking. I am participating as much as I can; that I have exams to study for, that I have other obligations which are none of your business, that I have a life which I intend to enjoy are all factors in my posting frequency. That said, I strongly doubt there has been any fault with it so far (13 posts in 4 days? Seriously, man what more do you want from me?); and content-wise my posts have been far more than adequate.

Catching up from my last post.

Neopi trying to derail the interest in DN's identity is dubious at best.

Starbuck: not that it would've taken you anything more than two minutes to find, but here's the link: Mafia 82: International Mafia. Note that first ten pages or so are pre-game chatter, that's the relevant part of the game.

So how is his answering someone's question an irrelevant post?

kyle adds nothing at all to the discussion other than addressing one direct question out of multiple. He makes no effort at contribution despite several calls for it; and the fact that the one question he answers is the most indirectly game-relevant doesn't help either.

As for why tubby's pact suggestion isn't a scumtell, it's because no-one gave any convincing arguments how scum have more motivation for it. If there is no difference in motivation in relation to alignment, it is not a scumtell. How many times will I have to repeat this?

And what's with your blatant defense of Tubby?

What a moronic loaded question.

nhammen: those are valid points, except the only thing I coach tubby about is something that, while controversial, has no inherent value neither to town nor scum. It is a complete waste of time discussing it, and that is precisely the point I make in my ISO 2.

Adel: while I trust your mafia theory skills when not potentially influenced by alignment, I think I'd like to see the numbers and assumptions that led you to the conclusion that 4 or 5 lynches are optimal. My educated guess would be more like 3. That is including lurker lynches and policy lynches, otherwise I'm afraid the town will be decimated very fast. Roccisi Autumn had a shitton of anti-town roles, and if this game is in any way similar town could easily become a minority.

In considering Ecto's suggestion for lynching on D1 the only problem I find is why does he want a lurker gone before any scumtell-based lynches? I really am not convinced that such a timeframe will expose intentional lurkers; we might just as well get a player who couldn't post for whatever reason but might have turned out to be invaluable. This seems to imply that Ecto doesn't care that much about other players' contributions, but wants to seem constructive while still lynching as many people as possible without essentially exposing his hypothetical anti-town alignment.

Neopi seems not to be doing anything himself, but repeatedly calls for more scumhunting. He doesn't even point any fingers as to who's responsible for the lack of scumhunting, he just deflects suspicion first off tate/DN, then Cobalt, all the while buddying up to Starbuck by mentioning how happy he is to play with her again. Post 292 is laughable as a defense. Post 312 is ridiculous logic (not to mention the annoying use of "scummeh" which makes me want to curb stomp a kitten).

There's a lot more room on this wagon, I'm sure more of you would be welcome.

tate seems simply confused and incompetent. I'm not really convinced he's a worthwhile lynch, or at least not for scumhunting reasons. I could get behind his lynch to clear up the waters, though.

ortolan seems to be concentrating more on antagonizing Adel and Ecto, the main drives behind his wagon, than making a logical and clear counterargument to their points. Instead of calling Adel's logick crappy, why not show how it is crappy? Claiming that what Adel says is a contradiction is, in fact, not a contradiction isn't really a counterargument in the strictest sense.

Benmage, this is a reminder for you to please answer my previous question when you next post.

Adel: while you can't directly quote from your QT, you can paraphrase. Is there any reason not to do so? Why change charter to Pyotr, and then back to charter in your list of players to lynch? Why not reveal the identity of your neighbor? Why do you want the claimed miller lynched first instead of last?

Pyotr, 427. Your various Fingers of Suspicion, slaps, stabs, and whatever silly bullshit you use don't match up to your scum-o-meter's readings. Why is that? And what system do you give scumpoints to players by?

Adel 443: I wouldn't agree with Pyotr, really. charter is simply butting heads, refusing to back down, and calling scum without giving much substantial backing. I agree with a lot of his reads though.

I want either of kyle, Neopi or Annachie lynched right now. All three of them are pretty much useless as well as scummy in various ways. But for now, I'm willing to get behind Adel once he replies to the above paragraph.

[Sopianae]

There's a lot more room on this wagon, I'm sure more of you would be welcome.

Scratch this, at this point I wanted to vote Neopi--by now I'm ready to follow Adel once he replies to me.

[Sopianae]

I don't see why people want to lynch Bogre immediately. There is no downside to postponing his lynch until the end of Day 1, but there are upsides no matter what his alignment is.

Cobalt: fair enough, although don't really agree with that argument, knowing how tubby plays.

kyle/Neopi seems plausible, but kyle is pretty much definite scum after post 464.

Pyotr backing down after stating that charter's been doing the most scumhunting implies that he wanted to boost charter's town cred, but got caught. Observe the change in tone:

Looks to me like charter eats, drinks, and shits scum hunting.

This is why I emphasized the difference between acknowledgment of charter's effort and agreement with his methods after Adel claimed I had voiced the latter. There's a stark difference between the two. I don't take major issue with charter's play thus far, but it doesn't dazzle me—but I do understand what he's doing.

Hm.

Secondly, I note that you are only calling me out angrily, and not anyone else who listed you. Why is that?

No-one else listed me as a lurker, as far as I noticed. Anyway, I agree in retrospect that my reaction was over the top. I guess I was just tired yesterday.

Starbuck: a metagame database of one scum game on Neopi is nowhere near good enough for conclusions.

Again, I will ask you to answer the question.

Also, if it's so loaded, why didn't you answer it?

I'm inclined to laugh at you and call you names, but I will answer nicely. Loaded questions are designed not to have a good answer; no matter what I answer to that question, the end result will be that I'm defending tubby even though I shouldn't.

What's with my blatant defense of tubby? I am not defending tubby. I am refuting a single point against him that I think holds no water yet seems to be disproportionately popular.

Also that was nowhere near ad hominem.

Annachie's latest post really rubs me the wrong way. Adel, please answer the questions I pose in my catch-up post so I can decide whether to go with you or not.

[Sopianae]

If I attack the person

and

the argument, though, it's not.

[Sopianae]

Neither, really. Anyway, move along, this is a senseless argument.

[Sopianae]

I don't see why people want to lynch Bogre immediately. There is no downside to postponing his lynch until the end of Day 1, but there are upsides no matter what his alignment is.

Demonstrations of the power of the lynch to enforce pro-town behavior later in this day and next day. On this site lurkers are fairly used to not getting lynched for lurking, but this game is different since we have multiple lynches each day. After we lynch a claimed miller for policy reasons our threats to lynch lurkers will be taken seriously.

Seriously, that's all you got? That's really really weak. A miller lynch won't serve as an example to all lurkers, because we aren't lynching Bogre for lurking. I don't see how that would work the way you describe, at all. Either your judgement is impaired for some reason, or you have ulterior motives with eliminating the claimed miller as fast as possible.

I will not lynch Bogre until the end of the day.

I will, however, lynch Benmage gladly. charter's reaction to Adel's case is interesting, because I for one found it pretty plausible, assuming all the QT evidence Adel posted is real.

Hi rofl.

[Sopianae]

Benmage really wants to be lynched, and I see no reason to deny him of that. I have the vague notion that he's just trying to boost his town cred by offering himself up for a lynch.

Adel, on the other hand, really had no motive as scum to initiate this, unless Benmage was a threat to him. One, I can't really envision a scenario where he would be a threat to Adel; two, what Adel did would be a very elaborate and unnecessarily long way of getting rid of Benmage.

Benmage: Adel will not be lynched today. Adel will be lynched tomorrow, whatever happens. Stop pushing that lynch, you just look like you're afraid of your scumteam being exposed.

unvote, vote: Benmage

I get the feeling nhammen is Benmage's partner--the insidious town-town statement, the way he attacks Cobalt for stating how invalid that statement is, all reek of him wanting to force the notion that Benmage is town.

Socrates makes better reasoned arguments for the town-town distinction, and he doesn't seem to feel as strongly about it. Socrates is town.

[Sopianae]

Also, Bogre should be the last lynch of D1. Adel and all his followers: get off that wagon.

[Sopianae]

tubby, Annachie. Bogre is no threat, and he's up for a lynch not because of what he did but because of what he claims to be. He will be lynched, don't get me wrong; but it would be much more useful if we waited until the end of the day and saw how he interacted with people. If he's scum, we get a clearer view of his connections. If he's town, we get a handful of reads out of it. Either way, it's better to keep him alive for a while.

[Sopianae]

Benmage: Adel will not be lynched today. Adel will be lynched tomorrow, whatever happens. Stop pushing that lynch, you just look like you're afraid of your scumteam being exposed.

Read people read. I just said a few posts back along the lines of "right right right...me today, Adel tomorrow".

Okay then--but then it doesn't make sense that you still want to be lynched--if your opponent will be lynched anyway, a town player should always strive to prove their innocence by whatever means. Right now you seem to be convinced Adel is scum--why aren't you acting like it?

I'd rather lynch Benmage than let him be modkilled. The modkill is entirely up to his own actions, and I'm not comfortable letting him get to the end of the day without pressure and potentially slip into the night without doing anything that would warrant a modkill. Also, we have multiple lynches, why use other methods when they're interchangeable?

[Sopianae]

How am I not acting like that? Is 1 town for 1 scum not good odds?

Why, again, are you still bent on killing yourself?

I want you lynched because the case against you is compelling and your reaction to it possibly scummy.

What is the point of post 599?

[Sopianae]

I want to be lynched so that when i flip townie you will lynch Adel.

ADEL WILL BE LYNCHED ANYWAY AS PER HIS EXPLICIT REQUEST

The case on you is compelling because you haven't refuted any of the facts that Adel brings to the table, implicitly acknowledging their truth, and the theories he has are all quite plausible. So here's a quick review, just for you. Adel saw that you posted something about the scum having little time for pre-game discussion and now thinks that it was a mispost and intended for a scum thread. I'm sure the syntax, semantics, etc would tell me more about whether this theory is valid, but in lieu of the possibility to directly quote, I'm reasonably satisfied with how the content implies the existence of a scum thread which you partake in.

The reaction you had was very emotional, OMGUSy, and you went as far as offering yourself up to the town for lynching just to prove that whoever attacks you is scum, which I find to be a huge appeal to emotion, and not by a long stretch an honest one.

Give reasons.

Yep, you're Benmage's partner alright. When I pretty much downright say "I agree with Adel", wouldn't you think that it's Adel's reasons (already stated in-thread) that I'm just gonna regurgitate? Geez.

It would be following PTW.

Uh, no. Officially, you automatically lose if you are modkilled.

[Sopianae]

Adel, does Benmage's reference to this post resolve the QT crisis?

[Sopianae]

Uh, I'm a bit taken aback by the 5 pages overnight. I'll have to catch up sometime, hopefully it'll be soon.

Benmage, my opinion of you is simple, and I don't understand why you still ask me after I made it so clear on multiple accounts. I think you're scum. You think that opinion will change if you ask me the nth time?

[Sopianae]

Ben, I really don't see how that post you sent us to fits so perfectly. I wanted to let Adel be the judge, because he knows more about your QT post's syntax and content, but even without explicit confirmation, I'm pretty sure that post means jack shit. I'm not even sure how the context is similar, other than the topical mention of pre-game chatter. Like Adel says, it really just looks like you happened to find a post which marginally fit your story.

[Sopianae]

Doesn't annachie's case assert that Sopianaie is scummy ?

Huh? You'll have to quote Annachie on that, because as far as I could tell, there has been no negative mention of me by him.

[Sopianae]

I'm starting to see a Benmage/nhammen/Ecto scumteam.

Benmage needs to be lynched first though, both the others are connected only to him. nhammen hasn't done much other than defend Benmage and, as Pyotr notes, spew a couple null reads, so I think he can go next. I'm not so sure about Ecto.

[Sopianae]

Pyotr, kyle may very well be simply replaced. Why are you so intent on lynching an inactive, instead of maybe waiting for some actual evidence that he's purposefully avoiding the thread?

[Sopianae]

If Ecto is Benmage's partner, though, I wonder why he only just now started to really defend him.

[Sopianae]

Can we lynch Benmage already kthx

[Sopianae]

Sorry to see you go, Ecto. I was looking forward to playing with you.

Pyotr, don't fool yourself into thinking you can strong-arm the town into lynching whoever you want. I've gone and checked on kyle's posting history, and I'm pretty sure he's just not committed to a game that progresses this fast. Let him be replaced.

charter, your request for mutual aid in the lynching spree really bugs me for some reason, although I can't put a finger on it.

Benmage should be lynched now.

[Sopianae]

Says "He's not my scum buddy" when Bogre accuses him of busing Neopi. This is what we call a scum slip, by the way. "He's not my scum buddy" is not a town answer. A town answer is an answer that somehow conveys "He's not my scum buddy and I'm not scum in the first place." Kyle's answer included the supposition that he (kyle) was scum. Cognitive dissonance check: FAIL.

That's a really weak point. For that to be a valid tell you have to assume that as town, you will phrase everything as unambiguously and didactically as possible; and that's just a stupid assumption, because most (i.e. sub-par) players don't realize the importance of proper phrasing. And the other two points still only add up to a lurker case with a streak of opportunism. I'm willing to consider him for a lurker lynch, but first on my agenda is scumhunting.

You mention lynching legitimately scummy players. kyle has been "legitimately scummy" through two shows of slight opportunism and a really weak slip for the validity of which you have to make a pretty stupid assumption. On the other hand, you have two seperate pieces of pretty strong circumstantial evidence against Benmage, as well as his reaction to the accusations tied to these pieces of evidence; I think of the two, Benmage fits the "legitimately scummy" tag far better.

You hounding kyle's lynch in the face of multiple superior lynches just makes you look scummy. I kinda get the feeling that the reason he's singled out for his initial opportunism is that he's inactive or at least not responding.

[Sopianae]

It represents a drastic change in play, though, from being opportunist and involved early on and then pulling back after suspicion.

So I think the attention paid to him on that ground is valid.

Considering the drastic increase in activity, it's not really relevant of anything.

[Sopianae]

Vote: kyle99

ortolan, I'm interested in your rationale for voting the 4th on your to lynch list.

[Sopianae]

I'd be interested in you reading my post, which blatantly explains the rationale

Woops. I missed the last paragraph. Never mind then.

[Sopianae]

Pyotr, you're 909 is terrible.

I guess I'm willing to entertain it as a possibility, but given that I have a scum read on you, I'll be looking at

you

if

when kyle flips mafia.

If you're still convinced enough that kyle is mafia, after apparently having entertained the possibility that Annachie is right about kyle, why don't you keep voting him? Or if you're not, why still project certainty by emphasizing the change from "if" to "when"?

[Sopianae]

EBWOP: your, not you're. I can't believe I made that idiotic typo.

[Sopianae]

EBWOP: your, not you're. I can't believe I made that idiotic typo.

Only scum concern themselves with such accuracy.

Was that some sad attempt at sarcasm?

Anyway, if rofl is prepared to compromise, I can get behind a kyle wagon too. Just make the Benmage lynch happen.

[Sopianae]

explain how bad my arguments have been

Very.

[Sopianae]

If sop, or rolf or adel were earnest in their attacks they'd do more.

Hah. What more is there to do than vote and campaign for a larger wagon? You have jackshit against us but OMGUS, and the fact that your repeated requests for the restatement of the case against you will not be answered the hundredth time is not a scumtell.

[Sopianae]

If sop, or rolf or adel were earnest in their attacks they'd do more.

Hah. What more is there to do than vote and campaign for a larger wagon?

And how does one go about campaigning without showing the flaws of the person they are wagoning...

IT'S BEEN SHOWN MULTIPLE TIMES STOP IGNORING WHATEVER DOESN'T FIT INTO YOUR WORLDVIEW

[Sopianae]

Someone else (I think Orto) needs a lesson in policy lynching too. Why Millers and Lurkers and not Tate? Millers claims and Lurkers policy lynches are based in the fact that scum use them for their purposes and thus are alignment based lynches, where Tate being Tate has no more likelyhood of being scum than any other player in this game and thus would not be an alignment based policy lynch.

Thanks for quoting this, Sanhora. It makes me re-evaluate Ecto completely. I hadn't noticed how broken this logic is. It implies an Ecto/tate connection.

I'm not really convinced by kyle's claim. Also, I see I forgot to vote last time around. PREVIEW EDIT: the vote I had here on kyle has no purpose now.

vote: Benmage

Benmage 1017 is terrible and the post of flailing scum. You omit the fact that reveals will be in one chunk at the end of Day 1, so lynching Adel on Day 1 has no purpose, he won't have any better reads until Day 2. You just want to get rid of the biggest threat to your faction.

I'm glad rofl and I think alike, that's a pretty good implication for me that he's town.

[Sopianae]

Sopianae are you Korts?

I will neither confirm or deny anything.

Also than about the scum not having pregame discussion, but I crushed that floppy theory,

No, you didn't. You showed a post that just barely fit the topic in question, but shouldn't warrant a reply, especially not in a QT.

[Sopianae]

Yeah, Adel PM'd me before the game, although I didn't confirm or deny anything to him, either. I've left big enough hints anyway for it to be obvious to anyone who cares to do the research.

But yeah, your final reads would be wonderful to have.

[Sopianae]

Post 1055 was a brilliant appeal to emotion, Benmage. You deserve a standing ovation for that performance.

I don't agree with a lot of your reads, I definitely don't agree with most of your logic, and I especially resent the accusation that I've been following, when I've been trying to do nothing but the opposite, but you have a few moments where I still doubt my scum read on you. And the idea that you would play like this as town makes me lose all faith in future generations of scummers.

Anyway.

Thank you for your reads, and goodbye.

[Sopianae]

And the idea that you would play like this as town makes me lose all faith in future generations of scummers.

You wouldn't know scum if you were the mod.

My play, active? Strong? Obvs town? Yeah...all those things are horrid.

Your play, active? Strong? Obvs town? Yeah, only the first of those is a valid claim.

[Sopianae]

I can't even bring myself to read Benmage's drivel anymore. All he does is appeal to emotion, question his attackers' abilities and mental health, and insult anyone he disagrees with. Why is he still alive?

[Sopianae]

Sop knows. Why do you think she's disappeared.

WHAT THE FUCK MAN

I can't go to sleep for fear of being accused of lurking now?

I've been active all the way through. Now you're really just flinging shit hoping something sticks.

If you're scum, you're really doing a fine job of making me irrationally angry. If you're town, you're an annoying prick. Either way, you have to die in this game.

I note that your only reply to a request to present a case is a direct insult. Why can't you comply?

[Sopianae]

Sop knows. Why do you think she's disappeared.

WHAT THE FUCK MAN

I can't go to sleep for fear of being accused of lurking now?

I've been active all the way through. Now you're really just flinging shit hoping something sticks.

If you're scum, you're really doing a fine job of making me irrationally angry. If you're town, you're an annoying, arrogant prick with the cognitive functions of a rubber duck. I'm have faith in humanity, so I'm betting on the first option, but either way, you have to die in this game.

I note that your only reply to a request to present a case is a direct insult. Why can't you comply?

[Sopianae]

Squee.

[Sopianae]

Yes, Ben, it's about that. And you answer Adel's question in 1163 with a question. Why are you so averse to actually giving proper answers?

[Sopianae]

Ben, is this your case?

03. Sopianae (Post count 47)—Early anti-Kyle, Defends/buddy’s tubby. Sop hasn’t done anything impressive…Retarded ignorance regarding myself. Half her play is meh fluff, the other half is tunneling me to no end, and being stuck to far up adel’s backside. It’s a gut read, but id call scum for sure. From my experience where I’ve been attacked in this strong tri-style before there has been scum backing it to some degree, usually not the lead (so not adel)…I write off Annachie as newb town, so that leaves Sop and Rofl…both are good lynch candidates. Her activity also illustrates a level of active lurking, she posts enough, not that much…and follows…tsk tsk. Advice—lynch asap.

[Sopianae]

03. Sopianae (Post count 47)—Early anti-Kyle, Defends/buddy’s tubby. Sop hasn’t done anything impressive…Retarded ignorance regarding myself. Half her play is meh fluff, the other half is tunneling me to no end, and being stuck to far up adel’s backside. It’s a gut read, but id call scum for sure. From my experience where I’ve been attacked in this strong tri-style before there has been scum backing it to some degree, usually not the lead (so not adel)…I write off Annachie as newb town, so that leaves Sop and Rofl…both are good lynch candidates. Her activity also illustrates a level of active lurking, she posts enough, not that much…and follows…tsk tsk. Advice—lynch asap.

Well then.

Show me an example of fluff from me. Show me the anecdotal evidence you refer to in mentioning a "strong tri-style attack". Show me how I'm active lurking. Show me how I'm following.

Your "case" is just a collection of buzzwords without evidence to back it up.

[Sopianae]

Benmage: you yourself seem to believe that posting filler is scummy, so me noting that kyle posted filler CANNOT BE FILLER BECAUSE IT IS BY YOUR DEFINITIONS SCUMHUNTING.

Also, even taking the rest of those examples of fluff at face value, you barely list anything from me as fluff: isolated sentences and outbursts of emotion. By those standards you're far guiltier of padding your posts with useless filler than I am.

Uhm…The strong tri-style attack occurred in Mini 842. StrangerCoug, IdiotKing, And Reck tunneled the shit out of me early game. IK was newb town who initiated the attack (much like adel here). Reck whatever. And SC who I called scum the entire time was scum.

You call one game sufficient basis for a generalized theory?

You still haven't shown me how I'm active lurking except thrown another handful of baseless accusations out there. That I have no original content is preposterous, please show me that whatever relevant points I make throughout the game I take from others.

[Sopianae]

Also, which question of tajo's do you mean? He had none directed at me.

I had multiple smaller cases before I pursued yours: early-game kyle and Neopi are the players whose wagons I was interested in before I found you. Why tunnel? Because I'm convinced you're scum and I want you lynched before I do anything else.

[Sopianae]

Vote: Bogre

Yeah, Neopi and nhammen can go next. I'm torn on tate. And don't forget charter, either.

[Sopianae]

So it seems I have a bit of a backlog. I'll see if I want to catch up tomorrow.

[Sopianae]

Post-New Year's Eve depression. I may or may not catch up today.

[Sopianae]

My computer's adapter died, I won't have any real access until Monday. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Sopianae]

Benmage, you are a moron.

I will read as much as I can today, philosophy exam be damned.

[Sopianae]

Noting that Neopi flipped scum, I'm bumping this for analysis by everyone.

Tubby - &Scum*
Adel - Town
Sopianae - Neutral
Nhammen - Not enough data
Phate - Not enough data.
Pyotr - town
Nuwen - Not enough data.
Cobalt - town
Bogre* - Neutral. Too late.
PopularTajo - Town
Ortolan - town
Annachie - Neutral
Rofl - neutral
Tate - neutral
Charter - Town
Sanhora - neutral
Neopi - Town
plum - neutral
TheButtonmen - neutral
Socrates- Town

Just borrowing this and edited

All in all, im thinking that...
Tubby should be next but for thesake of pumping out lynches.

VOTE: TATE

My guess is there's going to be italians in the copious amounts of neutral reads. nhammen may be italian too, because the "not enough data" label is justified in Phate's and Nuwen's cases, while the lack of enough data over the whole of day 1 on nhammen's part is data in itself.

ortolan, why is the nhammen suspicion by Pyotr so bad?

Pretty obvious that Phate is trying to save his scumbuddy Neopi by blowing all this smoke.

This comment may deserve a closer inspection seeing the alignments of charter and Neopi.

So is this one:

I'm telling you guys, Neopi is town.

---

If he's not, pretend this post didn't happen.

I'm up to page 60 and need to study for my exam. I'll continue later on.

[Sopianae]

Got my adapter! I'll read up tonight.

[Sopianae]

Korts, your hollow promises break my heart.

I'm getting to it, patience.

I've been wondering myself what the mafia would do in regards to Neopi, considering his ability, particularly if the Italians have no group kill, only Neopi's. They most probably wouldn't bus, but Neopi's activity and contribution were abysmal.

Tajo's 1481 inspired me to take a look at Pyotr/crypto: the charter case presented by others is basically basically the same things Neopi is far guiltier of, yet he ignores the Neopi case in favor of pursuing charter's lynch. The claim that Neopi's posts had some sort of

aura

that make him look like a village idiot rather than anything else was never really substantiated. Also consider that initially Pyotr/crypto considered charter to be scumhunting, even if he backed down from the apparent claim that he was a pillar of scumhunting; and the initial case he presented, namely that charter seems to be projecting a "tough guy" attitude without keeping logical integrity like crypto's town meta of him would dictate, is radically different, and indeed almost the opposite of the case presented by rofl and accepted by most of the charter wagon's inhabitants. This sounds like crypto tried to make a unique case so he wouldn't be accused of following anyone, rather than honestly vote for what he finds scummy. Then he gradually adjusts his case to charter being useless, which reflects the consensus case more, as his argument with charter progresses.

I'm pretty convinced now that crypto's case against charter wasn't honest and that it was merely a tool to delay Neopi's lynch.

Up to page 63; I expect to reach 65 or 66 today. Please don't spam the thread much.

[Sopianae]

Korts, your hollow promises break my heart.

I'm getting to it, patience.

I've been wondering myself what the mafia would do in regards to Neopi, considering his ability, particularly if the Italians have no group kill, only Neopi's. They most probably wouldn't bus, but Neopi's activity and contribution were abysmal.

Tajo's 1481 inspired me to take a look at Pyotr/crypto: the charter case presented by others is basically basically the same things Neopi is far guiltier of, yet he ignores the Neopi case in favor of pursuing charter's lynch. The claim that Neopi's posts had some sort of

aura

that make him look like a village idiot rather than anything else was never really substantiated. Also consider that initially Pyotr/crypto considered charter to be scumhunting, even if he backed down from the apparent claim that he was a pillar of scumhunting; and the initial case he presented, namely that charter seems to be projecting a "tough guy" attitude without keeping logical integrity like crypto's town meta of him would dictate, is radically different, and indeed almost the opposite of the case presented by rofl and accepted by most of the charter wagon's inhabitants. This sounds like crypto tried to make a unique case so he wouldn't be accused of following anyone, rather than honestly vote for what he finds scummy. Then he gradually adjusts his case to charter being useless, which reflects the consensus case more, as his argument with charter progresses.

I'm pretty convinced now that crypto's case against charter wasn't honest and that it was merely a tool to delay Neopi's lynch.

Up to page 63; I expect to reach 65 or 66 today. Please don't spam the thread much.

[Sopianae]

dammit, MS!

[Sopianae]

Nuwen: note that this ranking is pre-caught up.

nhammen=crypto>Nuwen,Socrates in terms of scumminess.

[Sopianae]

Wow vanilla claim from tubby pre-reveals/actions. Why hasn't his lynch happened? Why hasn't his wagon restarted on Day 2? I'm a little bit shocked that no-one at all seems to have pursued that case as of yet, not even opportunistic scum.

Up to 68. To be continued tomorrow.

[Sopianae]

I haven't done any catching up today, sorry. Imma work on it.

[Sopianae]

I haven't done any reading today, sadly, but rofl is awesome.

vote: TheButtonmen

I'm not sure if I can do any big amounts of reading in the near future, so I'd really appreciate if the following people were to give me a concise summary of Day 2 so far, including strategy discussion, scumhunting, wagons, and anything else you find relevant: Nuwen, Socrates, RichardGHP, Plum. No need for any quotes or links, I'll find them myself if needed.

[Sopianae]

what about tubby?

I second this. Why does everyone seem to have forgotten his uncalled-for vanilla claim?

[Sopianae]

If rofl was scum, I don't see why he'd inform the town of having received an amnesiac tracker result.

[Sopianae]

unvote

I await Richard's slot's reply. Also, some summaries, please. It gives me more than just an easy way out of reading up, so I'd appreciate if Nuwen, Socrates, and Plum complied.

[Sopianae]

Ellibereth, do you have any reasoning for your reads that you feel like disclosing?

Thanks, Plum, for the in-depth summary.

Why do you have crypto in the "ambivalent" section with a comment asking why he didn't respond, when you also have him listed in the "against massclaim" section, taking a very strong stand against massclaim?

Can you link me to Nuwen's and Adel's analyses?

I don't understand how rofl's track results on nhammen implicated him as scum. If he claims to have investigated Cobalt, it's not unlikely that he'd show up having targeted Cobalt even though he was blocked. Has anyone brought up this argument?

Has everyone checked in since the mason claim?

[Sopianae]

I don't understand how rofl's track results on nhammen implicated him as scum. If he claims to have investigated Cobalt, it's not unlikely that he'd show up having targeted Cobalt even though he was blocked. Has anyone brought up this argument?

Never mind, I consulted TDC, target doesn't show up if blocked. Who else had consulted TDC about this?

[Sopianae]

vote Cobalt

I see a Neopi connection.

Explain.

[Sopianae]

Ellibereth, please be more constructive. Your uncountered mason claim is not grounds for unhelpful play.

You could start by giving some explanations for your reads. As of now it looks like you pulled them out of your ass.

I'm not sure I understand the Phate wagon; Socrates, care to indulge me?

[Sopianae]

Also TheButtonmen seems to have settled into relative silence too. As long as we have nothing to indicate that your claim is false, you are the closest here to being confirmed town, so DON'T SHUT UP. KEEP TELLING US WHAT YOU THINK, PLEASE.

[Sopianae]

DGB's play always makes my head hurt a bit. I can see the tajo wagon, but I'm only willing to join in if you offer yourself up for a lynch afterward, like Adel promised--give your reads, and then I really want to clear the table. I can't read you at all, and your interactions mess up my reads of everyone else as well.

[Sopianae]

Excuse me, but one virtually unreadable player replacing another doesn't help my stance on the game at all. I need a clear perspective, and while both Adel's and DGB's analyses have been relatively insightful, I don't want to see that player slot anywhere near endgame.

[Sopianae]

To me, they are.

[Sopianae]

Eh, sure.

vote: tajo

[Sopianae]

Why aren't you voting me then, Nuwen?

[Sopianae]

Who said anything about a lynch? I'm talking about your vote.

[Sopianae]

Tying up a town vote on a non-lynch wagon close to deadline -> poor play, allows scum votes to push wagons further than they should go. Someone shoot Korts.

It's not like you can't lynch me, we have unlimited lynches per day. You're the one trying to tie up the vig here kthx

[Sopianae]

Also, everyone checked in since the mason claim. Do you really think if there's another mason out there they wouldn't have had the sense to think of counterclaiming? Please stop trying to out power roles or encouraging your scumpartners to counterclaim.

[Sopianae]

Tying up a town vote on a non-lynch wagon close to deadline -> poor play, allows scum votes to push wagons further than they should go. Someone shoot Korts.

It's not like you can't lynch me, we have unlimited lynches per day. You're the one trying to tie up the vig here kthx

Ahh...so you

know

that scum's kill didn't go through last night and you believe the killer of Anna was unlikely to be an SK even though a dead mafia turned up with a Vig role?

How does that even make sense?

And what do you want me to explain?

[Sopianae]

Other than me not wanting a player I can never get a proper read on near endgame, is there anything against me?

[Sopianae]

I'm not blaming the kill on anyone in that statement. Nuwen asked someone (a hypothetical vig presumably) to shoot me, I replied to that.

[Sopianae]

I guess you're right, Nuwen. I've become terminally bored with mafia, and I'm just wasting a role slot. I refuse to sift through 94 pages of drivel, I have a dozen better uses for that kind of time.

I also find your accusation a bit ironic, since you have been relatively passive too.

Imma ask for replacement, although I'm sure the poor idiot who subs in for me will just be lynched.