Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[raider8169]

Hey all I'm here. I will be reading and catching up within the next couple of days. If there are any standing questions for me please repost them but as I am replacing in I cant answer for everything that Grandi may or may not have done.

Anyways I'm happy to be playing again after my 6 month "vacation" to a beach with no water.

[raider8169]

There are way too many people right now to keep track of everyone so this is my noteable things from the first 5 pages. Will work on more tomorrow.

Page one: Nothing I care about.
Page two: Flavor text means nothing this early in the game. Something to think about as roles start to be revealed however I wouldn’t think the game would be fair if it really meant something.
Page three: I don’t think DisCode was rolefishing. RayFrost voting cobalt and saying he has reasons without posting his reasons is scummy to me. I read the thread and couldn’t figure it out.
Page four: MafiaSSK points out we should be scum hunting however I didn’t see him doing any. I just hate it when people say that, seems to happen every game I am in. Cobalt said what should have been common knowledge in post 88. I dislike the vote against him for it if it was for other reasons then its not a bad thing but that is what stuck out to me. I like post 94 but I still disagree with part. Talking about possible roles and how things could be related isn’t a bad thing unless he is talking about a specific person and specific role which I didn’t see.
Page five: The mod scene was connected to DisCode. Not sure what that means right now.

[raider8169]

Two more pages done. So far I am getting into this game just wish I had more time to sit and read the whole thing before posting little notes here and there. Oh well, its more than the person before me has done thus far.
Page six: Its not rolefishing, but I can understand is someone thinks it to be odd or noteworthy. Gorrads post 149 is interesting, asking for someone to reveal information when it is not needed or warrented. If he is a PR there is no need for him to reveal that information as that will make him more of a target by saying what he is or isnt. By pointing out that you think he claimed PR you are opening him up when I over looked it and most likely other people did too. I remember seeing more scum than anything else making these types of posts. Townies would normally want to keep those roles hidden and not bring attention to them if someone slips.
Page seven: DisCode goes into more detail, not wise at this point but too late now. Still against the full claim, only time they are warranted is if the person is at L-2 or less. RayFrost is being very pushy and to me that is a scum tell when he has little backing at this point. I don’t get the vote on MafiaSSK by malthusis. Seems to me that the case is more to place a vote and hope it slips by unnoticed and questioned. I guess I will find out as I continue to read.

[raider8169]

Seriously at the rate people are posting I wont be caught up until next week. At least I had some time today to read.

Page eight: The discussion between Gorrad and Vaya was good, while I have played some of the games I do not remember all the flavor so this was very informative. I think this just adds confusion to the mix but at least it can be decided that releasing the darkness didn’t have to be a bad thing. Random vote from a new person is really off but it seems that there are a lot of late comers into this game. That doesn’t help anything.
Page nine: Attacking is not always a no-tell. Someone getting tunnel vision is a good example of that. Need to make a note that this is the page there Hayker goes over the main story lines for Kingdom Hearts.
Page ten: A lot of off topic talk going on. I didn’t see anything that would be long term note worthy for me.
Page eleven: I agree with RayFrost, self metaing is scummy. Im confused what happened on this page but I don’t think it’s a big impact on the game.
Page twelve: I agree with Kise’s post 275. Wow twelve pages into the game and 2 people have yet to post. Well I took care of one of them. Still there are a lot of people in this game to try and keep tabs on. Random votes at this stage by xRECKONERx and Cobalt? No case to back it up? Seems fishy to me even though reckoner says 30% joking. Well Cobal did say something, seemed to have missed it but I like the reasoning behind his vote. Post 295 was obvious as soon as the post count was posted.
Page thirteen: Vaya joining the wagon could be to try and take the focus off her however people will vote based on someone else’s case. Otherwise nothing would ever happen. RayFrost posts 317 has some truth to it. Fuzzy has a point in 322.

[raider8169]

So many statements of if someone flips scum or if someone flips town, that really doesn't help us right now, does it? Let's stop setting up future days and work on this one right now.

This is the part I agreed with. As we are still in day and more then one person has started if so and so flips town then so and so is scum. I have seen this logic worth both ways and end with another town lynch more then not. Not to say that it is not possible the the second person is scum but as a whole its not worth pursuing.

[raider8169]

I'm tired, will work on more later.

Page fourteen: Vaya has reasoning in post 326 but right I don’t think there is enough to go on so by default the issue should be noted and everyone should move on. I love wolframnhart’s post (327) as that explain me as well. In post 331 I think I understand where RayFrost is coming from now, though I think it should be more directed to the people that would jump on a bandwagon after a few people join it and it has the chance to end in a lynch.
Page fifteen: I laughed at DragonsofSummer’s post 351. I don’t think he is in any position to call someone else out like that. Lots of people catching up but not much in terms of content. Post 372, DTMaster votes gorrand and then says he needs to reread about it. Wouldn’t the reread come before the vote? This looks like means to place a vote now and just leave it there for the remainder of the day. I guess I will find out as I continue to read.
Page sixteen: Sir Chris’s posts are fishy. Skimming the thread and trying to make a case with false information. I do not like it as it seems like Sir Chris was just trying to just get by. This game has been full of that though. It might have something to do with that this is a large game and people are having a hard time keeping track of everything. If so it should resolve itself as the days progress and hope it does before we are in lylo or something. Not a fan of the meta as people have been known to change their play style to match their role. Meta is not always reliable and based on that not enough to lynch someone. So a bandwagon forms on Zwet, not a fan of it.
Page seventeen: I understand the case on fuzzylightning, I think that is the first case that I have approved where I would look more into joining the bandwagon. I would normally do that now however I still have a few more pages to catch up on. Post 414 by DragonsofSummer is full of flaws. The vote was because zwet is acting odd not concidering zwet could be V/LA or something. Either way outside factors are having a large influence in this game and I am against that. If the reasoning for the vote was for pressure or something that I could understand it but that was not listed. Sir Chris, I saw it as well (post 432)
Page eighteen: I agree with post 434, scum like to have a way out and like to target the easy targets, ones with a solid case against them, lurkers or policy lynch people. Post 448, I was wondering that myself, where did DisCode go off too.

[raider8169]

Page nineteen: In reference to post 455, I completely disagree. I have yet to have anyone even comment on me and yet the policy lynch is for a lurker. If you do that you will lynch just about everyone and that will get us no where in terms of the game. Lynching lurkers turns this into a guessing game instead of trying to really scum hunt or get rid of someone who is anti-town. Lurkers can and should be replaced if they do not post that is always the recommend solution. Post 459, how many town lurkers have been lynched in that way as well? I guarantee its has the same chance as randomly finding scum if not worse. Scum once prodded will do enough to just stay alive not ignore everything.
Page twenty: Zwet, that’s all you have to say? If this doesn’t improve you are quickly turning anti-town. I now approve of a couple more votes purely for pressure. I disagree with DisCode giving a full claim. There is no reason for it and if what he has already said is confusing that is still not a reason for a full claim. People are just frustrated because they do not understand that is not a reason to make him full claim and possibly get NK’d because of it. Regardless of what he says (towards his full claim) I do not see him being today’s lynch.
Page twenty-one: Post 518, there is no Zwet case outside of lurking and meta. That is not lynch worthy right now. I am more of a fan of DoS lynch. Then of course DoS speaks of tunneling (519), why didn’t you point out all the tunneling that is going on with the Zwet bandwagon? Sir Chris does not have tunnel vision that I see. DoS is just saying that trying to control other peoples votes, which I do see as a scum tactic. Then RayFrost talking about policy lynching, I think that is the third time you have wanted to policy lynch someone. Wanting to lynch everyone and anyone is a scum tactic yet again. Post 524, first post I recall from Kbud but its right on the money!
Page twenty-two: Again DoS is talking about tunneling; seriously that’s your defence? Grrr, Zwet jumps in and says policy lynch is bad. Nice to know you are doing nothing to be anti-town right now. Other than that this page was way off topic.
Page twenty-three: Post 558, this is just how I play. I like to take notes so I can find things easier as the game progresses. I hate making lists of each person and commenting that way. This way I can just reread my notes and the person who comes up a lot in negative ways would be the person I vote and make a case on. Right now that would be DoS or Zwet. Post 568, eh works for me. I’ll keep my notes to myself.
Post 599, well I didn’t see this post until now and everything was answered in my post however the noteworthy ones right now are:
DisCode, semi-claim caused confusion. I don’t want a full claim as its not warranted however he did leave and though came back I get the feeling he has given up on this game thinking he is going to be lynched or killed regardless. I have a feeling he is going to be NK’d but knowing this if there is a doc type role he may be protected so it’s hard to tell right now.
Sir Chris doesn’t stand out to me. I think he got the raw end on a few posts but I dont think he is a good lynch for today.
Cobalt is more less the same thing to me.
Zwet lynch as a policy is very bad but he is being anti-town. I would rather him not be lynched today but if his posts do not improve that would make for a lynch later on if nothing else presents itself.
DoS right now is who I would like to see lynched. I get the feeling he is trying to be controlling and accusing people of tunnel vision just because they do not see eye to eye with him. My vote will go here if nothing changes with the last few pages.

[raider8169]

I think we're nearing Zwetclaim time.

Yes cause Zwet is really going to be around to claim.

@everyone voting Zwet: What do you hope to accomplish with lynching Zwet? What if his is town? What if he is scum?

[raider8169]

Sorry for the triple post but forgot to do this before:

Vote DragonsofSummer

[raider8169]

I personally am hoping with zwet to lynch scum, he has done nothing to defend himself or really contribute.

If he is town, from there analyze the wagon and whatever happens at night and go from there on day 2.

If he is scum as i believe, still analyze the wagon, and those not on the wagon, and hope to catch a scum partner.

lol, I would hope everything lynching him would hope he is scum but I guess I need to reword my question. With how Zwet has played his actions lead me to think he is town, why else would he not defend himself. He is making himself an easy target and I would think that on vanilla townies would act like that and not care if they were lynched. That is just my take.

Though I hate meta's I will humor it a little bit. Lets say his play is different then his normal town zwet play. What would he have to gain? This alone leads me to believe that he has something to gain by dieing. Either hurting town as a whole if he is town, or if he is scum, maybe he takes the last voter with him or maybe something else. Who knows either way I would like to wait to find out.

My reworded question to those who are voting him are what if he is town? What is the rush? I know we have almost 30 pages but the deadline if I remember right isnt until the end of the month. I would rather drag this out and see if something else comes to light. I know that day one is normaly just a guessing game but I would still like that guess to be based of something other then lurking. I know that Zwet is being anti-town and that is worth being lynched but only if there is really nothing else possible. As I would rather have DoS lynched of course that is what I am going to promote.

[raider8169]

raider, why is DoS scummy for encouraging players to tunnel whereas I am not (at least not so far as you've described)? I could be fairly criticized as tunneling on Cobalt all game, but I didn't get scumpick in your post. To the extent that DoS is scummy for that, it seems that I would be, too. I'm not disputing that DoS may be scummy; I'm just trying to iron out an apparent inconsistency.

Well first off shame on you for tunneling. Its bad...stop

Secondly, you have given your input for other players. Even if you did not continue on them I have evidence that you have not picked one person and just focused on them. Secondly, the person you replaced had their own opinion and though you are not the same person by changing up the vote that shows that the character you are playing is not tunneling. I hope that makes sense.

[raider8169]

yeh, raider is scummy.

kthxbai

lol, glad we cleared that one up. I was worried for a second.

[raider8169]

Eh, your thing was a far more extreme example if it stood out in my mind.

From my PoV, raider calling out DoS but not you is scummy regardless of if DoS actually did claim people were tunneling.

Please go back and reread DoS's post and let me know if you still feel this way. They were differences in their posts, mainly Sir Chris was willing and did look at other people before deciding on who he would like to go after, I never was such evidence from DoS and moreso that he never showed intent to attack anyone else or willingness to do so.

[raider8169]

@Raider: So your case on me is I've been trying to control the game by what? Not being as present as most people? That seems like terrible logic to me. It looks more to me like you are just saying hey DoS is scummy look at him, with crap reasoning and no evidence.

lol, I love it when people only skim posts and think they got the idea or when they try to turn the words to something else. Either way you were calling out people for tunnel vision when they disagreed with you. As soon as someone responded you left. It looks like you were going after or trying to find easy targets. Can you say you have done otherwise?

[raider8169]

Plum's talking like she knows what zwet will flip.

Plum, I don't know nor care what zwet's meta is. All I know is that he isn't contributing anything whatsoever to the game, and I've lynched too many scum who play the lurker game to stop now. You can say "Yeah but so-and-so isn't doing anything either" if you want but that doesn't excuse zwet (or those people for that matter) at all. I'll happily join a viable wagon on any other lurker scum, especially on Day 1 of a large game where it's just too easy to lurk. If zwet's wagon suddenly magically melted away and was replaced by *insert scummy lurking player slot here* then I'd join that one too. This isn't about zwet, this is about removing scummy players and improving our chances down the road.

That said, I'm also up for lynching one of Sir Chris/Rayfrost just to make them shut up.

I love this post! He is not trying to candy coat his intentions.

Though I do not want zwet dead day one for his actions or inactions as it may be I would rather target someone who we think is scum. Lurkers can be replaced and I would rather have that then just lynch people for not posting. In the long run we would spend the game doing that instead of scum hunting. Also by lynching lurkers when someone flips town or something else undesirable no one will take responsibility for it and instead blame it on that they were a lurker and leave it at that.

On my note this is why someone who has been a little more action should be lynched, say like DoS.

[raider8169]

Oh BTW, wouldn't mind a Sajin lynch. I mean, look at this.

Thank you for being willing to help me, all.

No. You whine and cry for people to help you, the whole freaking town rallies with all kind of bolded nonsense, and.... that's it? "Thanks?" What kind of BS is this. First it's the "I have info no wait opinions no wait INFO AND OPINIONS BUT I CAN'T SHARE NYAH" and now it's this. You're a big huge scummy distraction.

If you can't tell I'm irritated that our first viable wagon in 30+ pages is being torn down for no raisin. If this town refuses to get its act together we're doomed.

Get our act together? Seriously? Oh no, day one and we cant work together, we are all screwed! Might as well give up now and give the game to scum.

Why are you in a rush for someone to get lynched. Bandwagons are great for getting information but there is nothing to gain with this bandwagon. Zwet isnt going to claim or post anything important for that matter. He is one of many in this game similar to that.

[raider8169]

If you have more of a case than this:

DoS right now is who I would like to see lynched. I get the feeling he is trying to be controlling and accusing people of tunnel vision just because they do not see eye to eye with him. My vote will go here if nothing changes with the last few pages.

I would love to see it. Do not insult me by saying I only skimmed your posts. Even though all you did was say what had happened on previous pages for most of them I did read them, and that is the only thing even resembling a case against me. Also I only told one person they were tunnelling, and it was Sir Chris, stop misrepresenting what I did.

Wow, missed this post somehow.

Ok looking at you in ISO just because I am lazy right now. Your third post calling out someone for not putting any content in there posts. Your first post you randomly voted, your second post was worthless. Gee where was your content at? Or does that only apply to other people? Post 351, calling out Sir Chris for utter crap. You have said little of anything thus far. Of course I am sure you are tossing around suspicion without any reason at least in your first 4 posts. You said someone actions were scummy yet it is the same thing you are doing. Does that make it less scummy for you? So then you back off because he posted, yet your posts still leave a lot of room. The vote would have been better suited for yourself and not Zwet. Then yet another post talking about not posting any content. I am seeing a pattern. Calling Chris out for tunnelling which I have already said and shown why it is not. Seems you have only gone after Chris which is tunneling except for your vote on Zwet which was just an easy place to move it and you didnt need to present a real case. Your 7th post gives me the feeling you are trying to appeal to the town. Otherwise it was another worthless post. Oh wait post 8 maybe something real...nope just you trying to be funny with a QFT. Post 9, woot a real post. Only you are just trying to defend yourself. My evidence you ask, well outside of this calling someone out for tunneling just because they were looking at you is a means of control. By calling him out you are hoping that he will move his vote, a minor goal would be to get him to join your side and vote for the same person you are. Any easy way to jump back on him for it later. Then bring us to your tenth and last post. Asking me to sum up my case.

In the end you are calling people out for what you are doing, which would be tunneling and not posting content. Lurking like most other people and admitting to it. To some people that can be a townie trait but not to me. It shows you know what you are doing and not willing to do anything about it. Oh, the skimming part, had you read my previous posts you would have seen the case and that you caught my eye early on so its not like I am just trying pick on you.

Eh, Im done with my rant for now, in a few days I hope you come back and respond.

[raider8169]

Man, asking for an extension 17 days before deadline. Again, I am used to 48 hour days, this will take awhile to not amuse me greatly.

Though 17 days seems like a long time, most people do not post daily or even close to that so many people are not going to chime in that much during the 17 days. Normaly people will just give in and vote whoever is the closest to a lynch just to make sure there is not a no lynch.

[raider8169]

EPWOP: 8 days? Ok that is a little sooner...

[raider8169]

Get our act together? Seriously? Oh no, day one and we cant work together, we are all screwed! Might as well give up now and give the game to scum.

Why are you in a rush for someone to get lynched. Bandwagons are great for getting information but there is nothing to gain with this bandwagon. Zwet isnt going to claim or post anything important for that matter. He is one of many in this game similar to that.

And you know what zwet is going to do how?

Especially if you don't even attempt to draw out said reaction by encouraging a wagon on him?

Sigh.

One, there is a wagon on him and has been for some time. Secondly, he has posted after the wagon has started and did not address anything asked of him. I take that to be a pattern and base it off of that. He is not someone worth having late in this game but I see him as an easy target and should only be lynched if there is not a real scummy player identified. I think my case on DoS is worth at least more pressure votes for him to post some content. As he has posted a few times I think the pressure would work on him or at least have a better chance. Plus I would rather get the information then the lynch as we still have some time.

Please tell me I didnt really need to explain this information as I thought it was common sense.

[raider8169]

@Raider: Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Up until you actually did a pbpa on me all you had done is spout off what had happened in the game. That requires no thought whatsoever and doesn't add anything at all. Also while there was a Yugioh Abridged joke in my QFT I QFT'd for a reason, and not just as a joke as you stated.

Playing down my case then? Not answering my questions? Looks like you are just trying to downplay the case and brush it off. So be it but that is scummy. I did ask you some direct questions please answer them.

[raider8169]

Thanks for all the <3 - <3 you all right back!

DeathNote all you need to know now is that zwet is being mega-bus'ed by his buddies, and we have to kill him, then take a long hard look at all the people on his wagon so far.

Before me = scumz, me and after = townz.

What would be the point in killing in then looking at the people on the wagon. Cant we do that without killing him or is the killing him to ensure that he is town or scum before hand?

If he is town then scum are ganging up on him and if he is scum he is being bus'd? Either way town can hide in there all the same its just too easy for him to be lynched and everyone look the other way.

[raider8169]

Either way town can hide in there all the same its just too easy for him to be lynched and everyone look the other way.

So you mad cuz town can't get incriminated? Your POV in this post seems slippery.

Its something that annoys me in these games. When there is a bandwagon based on someone being anti-town. They do not always have to be scum but someone who is opening not helping out the town. They are easy to lynch and the following day if they flip town then everyone can chalk that up their crappy play and not take any of the responsibility themselves. It allows scum to hide in the bandwagon and get away with an easy townie lynch without raising suspicions. Else, if the person turns up scum then everyone not on the bandwagon is scummy when Zwet can be 50/50 either way. This appeals for scum to bus said person and ride on that for the next few days and control the townie lynches. No matter how you look at it, town loses out.

Does this make more sense Kise and DGB?

[raider8169]

To answer the one question in your post, similar behavior is not necessarily scummy for two different people. Point out where I have tunneled and I will explain why its not. It doesn't seem I can win with you, either I am tunneling by defending myself from accusations, or I am just "shrugging" off what my attackers are saying by giving it minimal notice. You can't have both, pick the one you want and stop attacking me for the other.

While I agree with you I did not see much if any of a difference. You tunneled on Sir Chris if I remember right, in my previous posts I said when, dont have time right now to find it. You were shrugging off my attacks/down playing them. This is all scummy behavior. Do not think for a second that I will only go after one issue at a time. If there are more issue I will stat them as well. I do not try and withhold part of my case to stretch it out.

You call me calling out Chris for lurking scummy because I was lurking too. Fine, but at least I was putting my opinions out there on someone. Which I did not feel he had done. Which was my actual case, not the lurking itself, and I would appreciate if people would stop mischaracterizing what I did.

Your "opinion" was calling out one of many people doing the same thing you were doing. He did not put his opinions on other people but your post in calling him out was also the first post you did that as well. You still have not said anything on anyone other then him. Seems your focus is now defending and you dont seem to care about anything else. How is anyone mischaracterizing you for calling someone out for lurking when you were lurking yourself?

Also note, that when I am attacking a player for what I feel is scummy my thoughts on other players is not nearly as important though they are there, and I don't feel the need to divulge every thought I have about the rest of the players in this game to stop giving the impression that I am tunneling. If thats how you see it, you and I just have a different view of how to play the game, its as simple as that.

If you have opinions of other players you need to post them or at least on the players you find scummy. Otherwise, besides the fact that they mean nothing, they dont exist and you are just saying that to appease everybody. It doesnt work. If that is your game style then you are only hurting town by not expressing your opinions on other players and you are better off lynched then holding back information or thoughts.

[raider8169]

PARTIAL ANALYSIS

I feel so left out but that was before I realized this was before I joined.

Sadly I think I played a game with you before where you left me out of your town/scum list all together. I cant remember it was a long time ago.

[raider8169]

raider8169 - use the paragraph spacer, dammit! You're UNREADABLE!!! SCUM!!!!

My bad, it looked nicer in word but copy and paste wasnt my friend. Plus I forgot to preview it first.

@Raider: I feel my thoughts on you are pretty clear right now. You are guilty of the same things you are accusing me of, and as such should by your logic be voting yourself. I think you and I have a different definition for what tunneling is, and that may be part of the problem.

Wrong, just wrong. I evaluated people as I went and posted that information on what I thought was note worthy at the time. You have already tried to accuse me on this once and I proved you wrong and so you are going to try again? Tell you what, prove me wrong and show how I have been guilty of the same.

When I speak of Tunnel Vision I refer to someone taking all their efforts and focusing on just one person and not bothering to pay attention to anything else. If you think of it as something else post it.

[raider8169]

But in the initial quote, you didn't say scum. You said town. Meaning you hate it when town can't take the blame. But enough of that. If zwet flips scum, then we'll go after the people that bussed him rather than those that didn't vote. K?

I see now, my bad, I mistyped. I wouldnt leave the people that didnt vote on the bandwagon completely off the hook. I am sure not all the scum were on it. They knew ahead of time he would flip town and they would need some wiggle room. Its all WIFOM but still something to keep in mind.

[raider8169]

I don't want to claim all the details of my role, but I don't see any harm in claiming Jack Sparrow.

Personally I dont see why you used the ability so soon as now you have made yourself a target and then by saying there are more details. Oh well, he is your character to play how you wish.

I guess this goes for everyone in this game, please do not claim any part of your role unless you need it to back something up or are at L-1. by doing so you are letting the scum know who have the power roles and giving them targets instead of forcing them to guess.

[raider8169]

I used my ability the way that I did because I think giving the town a functional free lynch is as good a use of a DK as can be hoped for. I don't want to claim my flavor or abilities because that information is not information that town needs to know, but it may help scum manufacture fakeclaims and/or determine their N1 target.

While the idea of it is good I think it would have been better suited for maybe day 2. Night actions are good as it lets us know what we are up against however had you been nk'd then we would have lost it. I guess it really doesnt matter just personal preference.

[raider8169]

Hmmm saying a lot while saying absolutely nothing. That is very good.

vote hayker

.

Well I guess its better then saying little while saying absolutely nothing which is your case.

I dont think I will get the support to have you lynched anytime soon but your play annoys me and is not helping town.

[raider8169]

I've said plenty raider. You are just ignoring it. I have put opinions out there on multiple players now, just like you asked. You can think my opinion on you is wrong all you want, but I still have a right to it. You can say you analyzed as part of your read through posts but I call bs on the analysis. That is all I have to say about it right now.

You have said plenty? Addressing specific players? Looking back I see only these:

On which note, zwet obviously is not going to do anything even remotely helpful in this game because we have given him opportunity, and he has time and again done nothing.

Hmmm saying a lot while saying absolutely nothing. That is very good.

vote hayker

.

You consider this posting plenty? If you think this to be a mistake, prove me wrong. You are trying to defend yourself and I am not ignoring anything, there is just nothing there to be ignored. At least give me a chance to do that before accusing me of it.

[raider8169]

Unvote

unless someone counter-claims.

There will not be a counter claim. If there was both players would be killed and one would be scum making that a good trade off for us as scum havnt had a NK yet. Besides I assume it to be a one shot day vig but otherwise a VT thought char wise I assume he can not be nk'd simply because no one gets the best of sparrow.

[raider8169]

As can I, though I definitely want an answer to my previous question regarding Hayker's wagon.

Vote: SirPent

.

If there's two things I've learned in my time here, one is to trust DGB. ESPECIALLY if she's scum. It makes games so much more fun.

Hmm, not liking this. DGB is without question leading the town right now. While I do not think her to be scum,

IF

she is, she has the town right where she would want us.

I am not satisfied with the bandwagon to join it at this time. Besides I think 5 or so votes is enough for SirPent to address it.

[raider8169]

This is bad logic. You can't fault someone because they're influential and *might* be scum. You have to go off actual scum reads.
Besides, I don't think DGB is leading the town.

I'm not faulting her in the least, I just see her leading the town. You dont need to agree with me about it though I do like to see that people do not feel the same way.

[raider8169]

Raider, why are you so sure there won't be a counter claim? I specifically worded my posts so that, if Iecerint was scum, he would HAVE to claim Jack. Meaning he could not, should he be scum, claim one of his safeclaims. So. Either a) Iecerint is scum, Jack was one of the fakeclaims b) Iecerint is telling the truth c) Iecerint is scum and risking a counter claim from town.

Only scum know who scum are. I want to know why you dismissed option c so assuredly.

Also, I disagree completely about DGB leading the town.

For those keeping score at home, SirPent, Raider, SSK, Deathnote, and Saberwolf are my current likely scum candidates.

What would anyone have to gain by counter claiming this early in the game? While I did see how you backed him into a corner and he claimed quickly so I believe the claim. I do not think he should have been put in the situation to claim as he used he dayvig to do what the majority of the town wanted. There is no reason to dig further into this at this time that would gain more for town then scum. What is the point in roll-fishing someone who did the majority wanted?

[raider8169]

I am not satisfied with the bandwagon to join it at this time. Besides I think 5 or so votes is enough for SirPent to address it.

This suggests that you are scum not wanting to dirty your hands on a townie lynch.

Amirite?

Yes, yes you are. Ya caught me.

Reading over SirPent I do not enough to warrent him to be the days lynch but having votes on him is not a bad thing. I just wanted it known to make sure everyone in this game doesnt just follow you and he is lynched up quickly. Moreless the same thing that happened with Zwet. You voted and then others followed blindly. The same thing is happening here and I do not want it so jump up that quickly. I like where the bandwagon is at the moment.

Also, has the deadline been moved back? Something tells me no as the deadline was set for the day and the day has not ended.

[raider8169]

I'm normally resistant of "scum wanting to avoid townie mislynch wagon" rhetoric, but I think I may agree with DGB in this case. Avoiding the wagon would be fine if you were on one ("I like this one better!"), but you are not.

Eh, Im ok with that. I want DoS lynched but without support that just isnt going to happen. Why would someone need to be on a wagon to disapprove of another wagon? Plus I have not said I disapprove the SirPent wagon I just said I do not wish to join it right now.

[raider8169]

If you really want DoS lynched, wouldn't voting for DoS be a nice first step? It's true that it may be fruitless, but it's not any more fruitless than being voteless. Correct me if I'm wrong.

/drunkpost

Grr, I knew about the reset but I thought I redid my vote.

Vote DragonsofSummer

I dont tend to vote unless I really want the person lynched. Thats just me though.

[raider8169]

Saber: 536. I already said a few times.

Raider: Why do you assume that the person counter-claiming would be scum? You said it yourself, one town for one scum is a good deal. If he's fakeclaiming and not using a safeclaim, something I specifically tried to force him to do with the flavor analysis, then there could be a REAL Jack Sparrow, pro-town, who could counter him.

I assume it would be scum simply because I believe the claim.

[raider8169]

@Raider: How about my thoughts on Chris? Or my thoughts on you? You can't omit them just because you disagree with them. Also I believe that thoughts on 4 players at this point in the game is more than adequate. I know you disagree lets not argue that point because it will have the same result as an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object.

I only saw those thoughts in response to the pressure they put on you first. In other works OMGUS thoughts. Still you have time to show me I am wrong but it doesnt change the original case as you were being a hypocrite.

[raider8169]

SirPent is town, folks! But raider sure isn't.

(1) SirPent not lynch worthy according to raider, but the rest of us throwing votes at SirPent is fine with him!!!
(2) Suddenly, gripped with fear of lynching a valuable lurker. Can you say, cheap town cred?
(3) I engineered a key strategic lynch of zwet, a power player, and everyone followed me blindly despite zwet giving off a super town vibe. God forbid such tragedies should happen again!

unvote, vote: raider

(1) Wouldnt this be everyone who is not voting SirPent? I just expressed my thoughts while no one else did. Is that really so bad?
(2) Isnt that what I said with Zwet. If you keep lynching all the lurkers there will be no one left. Lynching all lurkers is going to give scum an easy win. Granted its only 2 at this point but when does it end? There are more lurkers then active players.
(3) Huh?

[raider8169]

Raider: What about a lurker lynch is the most appealing and the least appealing from a strategy point of view? How about from an information point of view? Do these two views ever coincide? Why or why not?

A lurker needs to be replaced plain and simple with someone who will be active that is just good sense so the game can be played as it is intended.

If the lurker is being anti-town then it changes everything. This was the case with Zwet later on but I got the feeling he was enjoying it as he was completely ignoring everything asked at him.

If getting lurkers or anti-town players replaced is not possible then lynching them is the only thing left. The first day I feel its best to lynch someone who has giving their opinion on people and has been active. For example I would have made a good lynch in this case as I did have my opinion on people and once I am dead and confirmed town you can take what I say more seriously. By lynching a lurker we do not have any confirmed opinions to help with day 2. Lurkers and Anit-town players need to be removed before it gets close to lylo so they do not cost the town the game. Make sense?

[raider8169]

What the heck! I come back to see like 5 new pages. Im currently V/LA though I should still have time to read and post a little bit but I spent all day walking around NYC and Im beat. Its cold and windy here.

On a real note, Reckoner you said you had a hunch. Can you go into more detail about this or otherwise explain what the point in telling that to us was? I seems obvious enough that if someone says they have an idea that they would tell the idea otherwise it just seems like you are opening hiding something from everything. Still it could be that if you say what it is it wouldnt work but why tell us you have a hunch in the first place. Not really going anywhere with this but I am just curious.

[raider8169]

I'm asking for a cohesive case. I don't want to have to filter a bunch of crap.

While 50 pages is a lot to go through why not iso DoS yourself and come to your own conclusion instead of having someone spell it out for you?

[raider8169]

I'm suspicious of players that defend, with disproportionate passion, worthless players/lurkers/zwet. That's something that scum will do to earn town cred. Not always; but I've seen it a lot. That's what raider was doing. If this tilted raider further in the scum column, it balanced SirPent into the town column.

Even townies need to defend themselves with passion. Who is to say that a townie should not go all out and defend themselves? I had people who roll over and die, nothing is gained from that. Letting myself be lynched without a fight or even just a little fight goes against my win condition. Plus when I do get lynched or die and then become a confirmed townie people can at least take what I say as a confirmed townie. I have seen a lot of people use this reasoning, I have never quite understood it as I have seen it both ways.

[raider8169]

I just wanted to go on a mini rant, not really related to the game. I really hate it when people talk about this, like when they go to someone and say "oh, but you're not fulfilling your win condition". Whoop-de-fucking-do. Sure, the goal is to try to win the game, but so is having fun. Sometimes the two need a balance, but when people try to preach about how you need to always play to your win condition, I think it's stupid. Your playstyle could always be trying to win in the long run if you're playing anti-town or not posting a lot or something. There are always secret motives. Just because somebody doesn't know what's going on in your head doesn't mean you're not trying to fulfill your win condition. [/rant]

sorry for the useless post.

I play to win. That is why someone saying someone is over defending is scummy is crap. People have different play styles and as the game is suppose to be fun being out of the game isnt much fun either. I think more is learned from over defending then just defending main points or doing nothing at all.

[raider8169]

Er, ok, I see how you could get that from what I said, but that's not how I meant it. I don't find defense a scumtell. I find lack of defense a towntell. Does that make more sense?

lol, so what Zwet did should have been the biggest possible towntell? I understand what you are saying, at least I think. There is a line for defending oneself but if its crossed then it turns scummy. Cant say I agree but for me its when someone changes their defense when the first one they were using doesnt work.

[raider8169]

Everyone can be wrong, you and I included. As I said, it isn't a heavy suspicion, but one I feel I should note as I noted it a lot earlier in the game, but moved on from it completely to focus my efforts on DoS.

I completely agree, no one is ever 100% in this game. I just dont think that is possible.

[raider8169]

Am I the only person not seeing the logical jump here?

I saw it a while back, of course that is what makes me on the list right behind you because I said something.

[raider8169]

I'm not quitting, its just you can only throw logic at a brick wall for so long and watch it do nothing.

Well...what were Sir's biggest scumtells? Why are you voting for the person that you have explained the least about?

Its most likely going to be the same case he had like 30 pages ago that was full of crap and what started my case against him.

[raider8169]

SirChris - So you are basically saying that your general playstyle is scummy? You are saying that "Oh hi, yeah I'm usually pretty scummy in my games, so if I make a scumtell, just ignore it." THAT is scummy.

AtE is similar to sarcasm as most people can identify it and just not take it seriously.

[raider8169]

Nothing that DoS has posted has changed anything like SirChris said. I dont get the unvotes.

Sorry I have not been very active. Just got back from a trip and though I have been reading I know I must of missed a few things.

[raider8169]

I don't like the manner in which DGB is rather casually declaring people town left, right, and center. If town, it really weakens your position to pursue them at later times.

Hahaha. Does it look like I'll never change my mind?

Changing your mind I dont think has ever been questioned, sticking with something is another story. Still with you changing your mind so much does open up lots of different conversations so I do not think it is a bad thing.

Either way I would like to see DoS lynched and from that we should learn enough to help with tomorrow.

[raider8169]

If the shiney grants extra votes we will figure it out soon enough. If it does something else then who knows. Either way I want to know what it does even if I dont know who has it.

[raider8169]

How are you meant to find out that wihtout finding out who has it?

Lol was wondering the same thing

Not sure but I wouldnt mind knowing who has it either. I am not opposed to that seeing as scum or town alike could have it.

[raider8169]

Sorry I have not been posting much, holiday stuff has been keeping me busy.

I am ok with a Hayker lynch but TBH I have not looked into enough to add my vote or really comment yet. Once I look more I will add my case or say otherwise.

[raider8169]

I am ok with a Hayker lynch but TBH I have not looked into enough to add my vote or really comment yet. Once I look more I will add my case or say otherwise.

I hope this is not because you're scum and you know we're lynching a townie.

Yes completely,

[raider8169]

This wagon is going fast. I think a response from SSK is needed before anything else happens to include more votes or daykills.

[raider8169]

Yea raider I am pretty sure that has been established. Way to try and seem more townish.

FoS raider

As I said before I am only skimming until after the holidays when I should have time to go back and properly catch up. I am just trying to stay up to date as best I can. My bad.

[raider8169]

Cobalt's abiliy seems shady to me but it would result in a one for one trade. To me I would think it would work the opposite as that would make sense.

@Sir Chris, what more do you need to use your ability?

[raider8169]

Or we daykill the confirmed scum MSSK, then re-evaluate my claim in the light of his flip.

I agree with this now. Unsure of where the wagon sits right now but my vote will be added. Just want to make sure I am not going to be the hammer.

[raider8169]

I havent a clue how the day-vig works. If it is a pro-town role I assume it would need so many votes on a person before being able to be used.

Either way I do not think a Cobalt lynch or kill is warrented until after the flib of SSK.

[raider8169]

Ok. Raider

Which is true:

a. Cobalt can lie detect.
b. Cobalt shot to lie detect.
c. All of the above.

Now:
Cobalt claimed two conflicted claims. How are both pro-town actions?

From what he claimed he never said he "shot" him to kill him just to see if he was being truthful. If I am wrong please point out where it was said otherwise. I dont see how that is turned into he is non-killable. I get the sense that you are turning his words around. Agian, if I missed something please point it out.

[raider8169]

Why not use the day kill for SSK first and then decide from there? Is there any real reason why this wouldnt be the wiser move?

[raider8169]

Why not use the day kill for SSK first and then decide from there? Is there any real reason why this wouldnt be the wiser move?

OMG

Are you suggesting that MafiaSSK may not be scum????

Are you mixing up two different games or something?

Wait, what? I never said SSK may not be scum. I just said daykill him and see what he flips before deciding what to do with cobalt. Killing him will get us a role name but I do not see that confirming his ability, though I assume if he flips town and has the same name as he said would confirm enough.

[raider8169]

MafiaSSK needs to die before Cobalt, even if that means losing the daykill.

Iec said before he doesnt know what it takes for him to set it off. Cant really count on that until he finds out and says something. No one has said MafiaSSK is unkillable without twisiting Cobalts words around. Kdub said he has information but until he says what it is, it means nothing to us.

If Cobalt is telling the truth then we have everything to gain if he is lying then we have a one for one swap. As people thought MafiaSSK was scum before hand it just confirms what people originally thought. The idea behind Cobalt needing to die first is stupid, no matter what MafiaSSK is on the chopping block so take care of that one first.

Vote MafiaSSK

[raider8169]

Kdub said he has information but until he says what it is, it means nothing to us.

KDub has already said that Cobalt is not from Disney Castle, as claimed by Cobalt himself via

being

King Mickey.

When you say Disney Castle I do not think of Mickey being part of that. Wouldnt that be all the princesses and whatnot?

Kdub, I need something more before lynching Cobalt just because you say. Do you have a reason as to why we should kill Cobalt first? Do you know for sure who is part of the Disney Castle and who is not? I am not asking for a full claim or anything but I need something more to go off.

[raider8169]

We should kill Cobalt first because, as DTM pointed out, there is the possibility that SSK is kill immune.

This. And DT has the right of why Cobalt is scum outside his fakeclaim. SSK is obvscum for claiming it twice. How is any of this being questioned at all?

I just have the preference for MafiaSSK dead first. Still not sure how the whole SSK is kill immune came about. The only thing that I ever saw was someone twisting the wording about Cobalt's claim around.

[raider8169]

Ok, I think I got it now. Sorry I can be a bit stubborn at times. Not that it matters as the day kill has happened. Now we just wait for an update. Merry Christmas!

[raider8169]

@ Starbuck, let me know where I said I did not want Cobalt dead at all. I just wanted MafiaSSK to flip first before deciding. The only real reason that it didnt happen is because people were thinking MafiaSSK can not be vigged.

Vote MafiaSSK

[raider8169]

Iecerint, now that you are out of shots, would you mind giving a full claim with flavor? I was a bit suspicious that you were able to shoot twice given that the flavor of Jack Sparrow would seem to suggest only one shot, but I didn't think much of it since you were using your ability in a pro-town manner.

Based on yesterday's interactions, I think raider's play is pretty questionable. He seemed to really want MSSK to die first and suggested that Cobalt should be re-evaluated after that. I don't think raider is a heartless because there wouldn't be any benefit to him protecting Cobalt, but he could certainly be a nobody.

Death Note has been pretty useless and claimed for no reason, so I am OK with pressure on him as well.

Vote: raider

Yup, mainly cause I thought MafiaSSK was scum more then Cobalt. I dont see a problem with it and the other way would have worked out just fine.

[raider8169]

Yup, mainly cause I thought MafiaSSK was scum more then Cobalt. I dont see a problem with it and the other way would have worked out just fine.

That's not what I see when I read your posts yesterday. Papa Zito already posted some quotes where you clearly were pushing for MafiaSSK's death before Cobalt's.

I was not convinced that Cobalt was scum at the time. I was giving him far more credit then everyone else. My main focus was SSK and while at first I wanted to wait until SSK's flip to figure out Cobalt the more people questioned his claim and I started to catch on. I can see how you think that puts me in league with Cobalt and at no time did I say that I wanted Cobalt dead. I'm just glad there are smarter people in this game then me.

[raider8169]

Hayker, doesnt post often and tends to piggie back off of someone else. Cant really say anything bad about it as I tend to do the same. Has alot of background in KH which could come useful however if he is scum then could use that against the town. I am leaning town on him.

DeathNote, He has a bunch of oneliners and even claims VT. Talks of being gone for most of day 2 but I dislike holding that against people simply because it could be out of their control. Seems like he would be an easy lynch simply because of his playstyle. Would be a good fallback lynch if we have nothing better simply because he easily could be town or scum. I dont recommend lynching him at this time and have no real read on him. Also note that Cobalt tried to get a lynch going for him, I do not think they are connected though this is WIFOM.

Ace5993, made minor comments towards Cobalt being town I could see them connected. Was all about SSK being killed but never said anything one way or the other towards Cobalt. I could see him being scum. He has posted sense before Christmas and he reaction to the end of Day 2 would have been helpful.

Joe478, Mainly posted one liners. Hasnt commented on the end of day 2 either though he hasnt posted sense before Christmas like Ace. Voted Hayker in one post then DOS in the next. Lurks alot so I dont get a solid read but I am leaning scum more then not.

RayFrost, I get townie vibes from. He seems willing to look into people and provide content. I see him scumhunting and though he can be looking for the other scum group it still benefits us until the other group is dead.

Vote Ace5993

[raider8169]

vote: Raider8169

I think the post I quoted shows kdub breadcrumbing a result on raider.

It wasnt a breadcrumb though that is what anyone would say. I assume he would have put more into it if that was the case.

[raider8169]

On raider8169

From Post 2416....

Iecerint, now that you are out of shots, would you mind giving a full claim with flavor? I was a bit suspicious that you were able to shoot twice given that the flavor of Jack Sparrow would seem to suggest only one shot, but I didn't think much of it since you were using your ability in a pro-town manner.

Based on yesterday's interactions, I think raider's play is pretty questionable. He seemed to really want MSSK to die first and suggested that Cobalt should be re-evaluated after that. I don't think raider is a heartless because there wouldn't be any benefit to him protecting Cobalt, but he could certainly be a nobody.

Death Note has been pretty useless and claimed for no reason, so I am OK with pressure on him as well.

Vote: raider

Yup, mainly cause I thought MafiaSSK was scum more then Cobalt. I dont see a problem with it and the other way would have worked out just fine.

I was not convinced that Cobalt was scum at the time. I was giving him far more credit then everyone else. My main focus was SSK and while at first I wanted to wait until SSK's flip to figure out Cobalt the more people questioned his claim and I started to catch on. I can see how you think that puts me in league with Cobalt and at no time did I say that I wanted Cobalt dead. I'm just glad there are smarter people in this game then me.

It's very easy for you say this now, but, back when it was happening, you were very much trying to protect Cobalt and delay his potential lynch. I would like to point everyone back to my Post 2201, where I called you out on this, and also to point to others to read you in iso to show that you did not feel so passive about it during that time.

Let me illustrate it again for you, since you are in staunch denial of it....

From Post 2081:

Either way I do not think a Cobalt lynch or kill is warrented until after the flib of SSK.

From Post 2099:

Why not use the day kill for SSK first and then decide from there? Is there any real reason why this wouldnt be the wiser move?

The rest can be found in my post that I linked where I called him out on it.

You called me out on crap. I wasnt MafiaSSK dead. I was unsure of Cobalt. So using that information please restate your case. I did what a reasonable townie in that situation would have done. I never said do not kill Cobalt only to wait on killing him until we kill MafiaSSK.

[raider8169]

EPWOP: Opps wasnt was suppose to be wanted. Its too early in the morning for me.

[raider8169]

You called me out on crap. I wanted MafiaSSK dead. I was unsure of Cobalt. So using that information please restate your case. I did what a reasonable townie in that situation would have done. I never said do not kill Cobalt only to wait on killing him until we kill MafiaSSK.

Can you point me to one post during that time when you say that you were unsure of Cobalt?

I would think not voting for him or not saying I want him dead would be just that. Besides...

@ Starbuck, let me know where I said I did not want Cobalt dead at all. I just wanted MafiaSSK to flip first before deciding. The only real reason that it didnt happen is because people were thinking MafiaSSK can not be vigged.

Vote MafiaSSK

You are trying to have me prove a negative for a case you submitted as a negative. It doesnt work like that. Show me where I said Cobalt wasnt scum or that he should live. Then you would have something to go off from. Until then at least come up with something real instead of trying to push this off as an easy lynch.

[raider8169]

That still does not say that you were unsure.

You just proved again that you were delaying Cobalt's death.

YES! I was trying to delay it at least until Mafia flipped. I wanted to see what Mafia flipped then discuss it from there. I have already said that many times.

I tunneled in on Mafia and that was all I cared about at the time.

[raider8169]

Therefore, I am willing to say that anyone who was calling for a Cobalt daykill/MSSK lynch is scummy. Certainly not obvscum; but it was the wrong choice. Thankfully, it worked out the best we could have hoped for.

Either case would have worked as Mafia was daykillable. The idea of him not being daykillable was brought up on speculation no more then saying I do not think Starbuck can be daykilled.

[raider8169]

@Raider

Before you continue your defense of Cobalt at the time of the whole Mickey with a gun fiasco, I think I clearly ranted on how anti-town his play was. Any comment on that?

I dont really have a comment on that. That was your opinion but regardless he gave us a lead and I thought it was best to follow it and if he was wrong lynch him. 1 for 1 was a good deal.

[raider8169]

@Ice I did have a town read of Cobalt throughout the game. Last I knew scums goal was to seem townie so it just worked on me. I thought my reasoning was good enough as most people have a reason to think someone is scum and to be town would be to seem like they are scum hunting while staying under the radar. I was wrong, isnt the first, wont be the last.

@Starbuck, Completely I am still protecting Cobalt to this day Seriously, though I dont see how I was protecting him more trying to get the focus to kill Mafia first. As killing Mafia was my goal if keeping Cobalt alive a little longer to do so I most likely would have tried to keep him alive longer. Instead I didnt say I wanted Cobalt to stay alive but more I wanted Mafia dead before moving on to the next person, which was looking like Cobalt.

[raider8169]

^^ The first part was to Ray, my bad.

[raider8169]

Kdub said he has information but until he says what it is, it means nothing to us.

KDub has already said that Cobalt is not from Disney Castle, as claimed by Cobalt himself via

being

King Mickey.

When you say Disney Castle I do not think of Mickey being part of that. Wouldnt that be all the princesses and whatnot?

Kdub, I need something more before lynching Cobalt just because you say. Do you have a reason as to why we should kill Cobalt first? Do you know for sure who is part of the Disney Castle and who is not? I am not asking for a full claim or anything but I need something more to go off.

This posts seems desperate to find a way that cobalt is not from DC while still having a real claim.

Very lulzy.

No, its just me not having any flavor background into this before replacing in. I tried to read into the story but just didnt feel like finishing it.

[raider8169]

KDub has already said that Cobalt is not from

Disney Castle

, as claimed by Cobalt himself via

being

King Mickey

.

When you say Disney Castle I do not think of Mickey being part of that. Wouldnt that be all the princesses and whatnot?

lol.

Yah, castles totally don't have kings.

Yes, but I could just add king to my role name and have the same effect. Mickey is never a king in anything else so it didnt fit, though had I played the game I would have understood that.

[raider8169]

Why would he include the King if he wasn't trying to match flavor elsewhere?

Or did you seriously not think?

I thought it might just be means to justify a power role.

[raider8169]

...

and justifying a power role would require it be a fakeclaim, no?

otherwise, no need for justification, as it would just be the truth.

No, but if he claims something like Simba it would appear to be a VT but saying King Simba would make it appear to be a PR. Its just my thinking as wrong or right as it may or may not be.

@EVERYONE

If I am to be today's lynch give me enough time to post my thoughts. Once I flip town maybe they will mean something more.

[raider8169]

Wait what!? Saying its scumming to vote someone without reasons is a distancing technique? Whatever it is you guys are smoking send it my way.

[raider8169]

And Raider lacks any credibility, so who he attacks isn't really important.

How do I lack credibility any more then anyone else in this game. Once you see that I am town you can not dispute that? That is something scum would say to derail that they pushed a townie lynch and you are already working on your escape plan. I hope everyone else caught on to this once I flip town.

[raider8169]

Hayker and DeathNote are inveterate lurkers that provide very little to no content regardless of alignment.

I request either modkills or forced replacement.

These are requests that the mod can not honor and if you have been around long enough you should know that. If they do not break one of the mods rules then they are part of the game and we have to deal with that.

I used this a lot as scum just to make it seem like I was town, as town I just work with what I have in hopes that they either contribute or request replacements.

[raider8169]

Lol @ Raider trying to make that seem scummy.

Its all good, you wont change your mind of me no matter what so Im just pointing out the little things that really are not important that make up your entire case.

[raider8169]

How do you lack credibility? Go back and read my case on you.

You have no credibility so your case is meaningless

Seriously, can you guys stop the childness and get back to the game?

[raider8169]

Ok I will start the mass claim.

I am Simba. This is what got me confused with the King Mickey as my role mentions King in it however it means nothing.

Ice, your up next.

[raider8169]

I am Simba. This is what got me confused with the King Mickey as my role mentions King in it however it means nothing.

That's it? Simba and nothing else? Like Donald Duck?

Nope thats it. I wish it said King Simba and that is what I thought until I read more into it. I loved your post before that, it that was just the time it took to read from the post I responded to until the end of the thread.

@Ice, my bad. Im getting confused as I thought that it was RayFrost. My next up would be Ace.

[raider8169]

This was a mass claim name only, I do not agree with saying flavor at this time as that will reveal powerroles if role names alone do not do it. When/If I get to L-2 or so I will reveal more but TBH there is nothing really important left to reveal.

[raider8169]

Eh whatever.

I'm Simba, king of my homelands which is the Pride Lands. Scar so killed my father, the bastard. I was so trying to kill him so the only real help I have is that someone named scar is in this game and is scum. Yeah I know not of much help and of course you guys think its something off the wiki or some crap like that.

I think MME, Ace, Ice and RayFrost are the remain scum.

In either case having Ice, StarBuck, DGB, or Ray in endgame would be very bad for town. DGB mainly because I like her as a player and she could easily be scum and plays a great townie. She likes to lead her side by giving them information to use agianst someone else. She did that in another game we were scum together. I though I saw signs of this in Hayker as he was gone and then came back with a case and started pushing it. The rest of them are just bad townies and I think Ice is lying about his claim. Jack only had one bullet and never killed anyone in the movies...

It would be stupid to keep me alive at this point simply because when I die I hope someone takes what I say seriously. Good luck town!

[raider8169]

So, you're a lyncher. Right?

unvote

while I mull this over.

No, I am a vanilla townie.

[raider8169]

So, you're a lyncher. Right?

unvote

while I mull this over.

No, I am a vanilla townie.

Sounds like a lyncher to me.

"I was so trying to kill him so the only real help I have is that someone named scar is in this game and is scum."

I thought of it more as motivation to kill scum and scar should be among them. Not really sure why this has held up my lynch though.

My only guess would be that I am on to something and unvoting would give them time to derail my thoughts. Guess I cant complain too much, I am alive for another couple of days or so.

[raider8169]

@Starbuck, seriously do you read what I say or are you skimming? As I am dead and none of this is going to help the town I will just say that you are a bad townie because you are pushing a case where you have no case. Doesnt matter to me as I am more useful dead then alive now. You like to twist peoples words around. I will have to remember that.

[raider8169]

Are you, of all people, accusing me of skimming? Really?

Where do I not have a case? You set yourself up, not me. I just pointed out the scummy things you did.

Me of all people? lol Good stuff. I might not think that if you didnt try to twist my words around. I have pointed them out before, so if you really care go find it.

Oh and as I am off to work, bah go town and all that good stuff.

[raider8169]

So you are gonna use baseless accusations and not back them up? Nice...

Hammer plx.

I have pointed them out before, so if you really care go find it.

[raider8169]

So lots of speculation and flavor for other people, pointing fingers and saying "look over here!"

it probably took you awhile to type all that up and look up any info you needed off KH wiki, yet you didn't have time to also state the most important part, why you voted ace? Oi....

"hey look over at Hayker"

Seems to me you did something very similar to him just now.

Either way I am sure he likes talking about the flavor of this game more then his reasons for voting Ace. To me that would take longer if I had played the games more often and was into them like some people in this game. Either way just give the man some time and wait for him to post something you can argue instead of trying to start it early.

[raider8169]

Raider, you obviously don't care about whatever case you think you have on me or you'd bring those points back up. Now, you just make yourself look lazy.

So you admit to not reading what I have already posted. Had you read it you would see my response. If you are too stubborn to accept it there is nothing I can do about it. Re-asking the same questions after I have already answered it shows that you are being lazy and just ignoring my responses.

Feel free to rejoin the game when you stop being lazy and read peoples posts. Once you read if you have further questions ask away and I will answer but I am not going to respond to the same questions that have been repeatedly asked by you.

Vote Ace

That should have been an ability you used the first or second night. The longer you wait the less of a chance you could have used it even with the risk of being lynched that could have been a player you could have confirmed before dieing. That would have helped out the town a lot.

[raider8169]

Also, is there a reason why DeathNote is still alive?

Because you have like 5 people you want dead and can only kill one at a time.

[raider8169]

Excellent.

Unvote Ace right now. His claim is provable as he claimed to get the role details of whoever he targets as well as alignment.

If he is legit, he will have to be nightkilled or it will increase confirms/out scum. If he is not legit he will have difficulty faking.

I propose a Raider or deathnote lynch at this point.

You are aware there is a role blocker out there...

[raider8169]

Excellent.

Unvote Ace right now. His claim is provable as he claimed to get the role details of whoever he targets as well as alignment.

If he is legit, he will have to be nightkilled or it will increase confirms/out scum. If he is not legit he will have difficulty faking.

I propose a Raider or deathnote lynch at this point.

You are aware there is a role blocker out there...

Is this a slip?

Proof you are skimming... Its been said numerous times...

[raider8169]

Well if Ace's claim is true it seems we will find that out soon enough. I agree with Iecerint, that the roleblocker won't hurt the investigation too much if at all. I am not liking raider's quick vote after the claim though, Ace explained why he hadn't used his ability yet. It's lucky he hadn't been killed, but now that the list of suspects has been narrowed his chances of finding scum are much better, so I am happy that he saved his ability, so I am keeping my vote on raider for now. I would really like to hear more from DN though.

If you read my final notes, or what should have been Ace was on my list of people that I think was scum. I have also listed that I thought he was scum long before that too.

[raider8169]

Are you saying that -- in spite of the presence of reasonable suspicion of other players -- you were pushing a clandestine policy lynch on DN?

Yes, YES MOTHERF**KERS, I wanted to teach him a lesson and manipulate everyone into lynching his skulking ass. He's dead already to this game.

There I said it!

GAAAAAAAAAHAHHHUKUJHAKSJDHJKSDABNJK@#!IIUQ!@)(LKAN

There are leads suggesting raider could be a Nobody. I'd rather get to the bottom of that instead of carry out my dickheaded plan.

And yes, I would have still accounted for DN if he flipped town.

I love this rant. Even if you want me lynched!

That said there are plenty of leads for today. I think the best course of action would be for those not voting to vote!

[raider8169]

@raider. Hope you dont mind my asking but what exactly are the top leads on players from today?

Just to bring it back to the table...

I think MME, Ace, Ice and RayFrost are the remain scum.

[raider8169]

I would rather replace DN and lynch raider. If replacing DN is not going to happen, I am satisfied with lynching DN.

Sadly I agree with this. As much as I want to keep playing, if DN can be replaced I think that would be best. I think he is town and killing me would give the replacement more of a chance to get everyone to believe that then me. I dont think anyone in this game is going to take me serious until after I flip town, well if they ever do.

@Raider. Im MME's replacement and you've posted nothing on his behaviour, only saying of Joe's

Yeah I have nothing to add to it so it was just a feeling that remained all this time outside of the origional notes on joe. I dont think I have enough to say how I feel about you one way or the other just yet. I would have to say I get townie vibes from you but you have only just replaced in and have not fully caught up yet. Only time will tell though.

[raider8169]

Why do you think he's town? I can understand a belief that he's not a Nobody, but it seems reasonable plausible he could be Heartless to me.

Plausible sure, but he is not attempting to save himself and is under the impression that he is better off dead. Something I am also doing and I think his role matches mine based on that. Sure its WIFOM and my reasoning can be flawed like anything but to me it would appear its either him or me. That something for everyone to decide and I have no intention of joining in as I am most likely the next to go if I do not get lynched today.

[raider8169]

We have claimed Cops to maybe save the day.

Granted, they're like the 4th and 5th instances.

Assuming they dont get roleblocked or killed.

[raider8169]

Like I said I was watching the new episode of Heroes.

I really don't see why I should roleclaim when I'm at L-5

A whole bunch of people unvoted you because you replaced in. I would recommend claiming before those unvotes become real. The longer you delay just shows that you are coming up with a fake claim as DBG said.

[raider8169]

Still sticking with my thoughts that flare (DN) is town.

[raider8169]

I think the only way I could understand someone thinking I was non-town is if they thought I was an SK DKer who was pretending to have only had 2 shots.

Damn you and your mind games

Plus I would image some sort of restriction like the person had to have so many votes on them. My guess would be 5 so it would become useless late in the game.

[raider8169]

Raider is still obvscum I think for the bogus claim. I find it highly unlikely that Scar is scum with so many better choices for Heartless villains. Scar wasn't really directly involved with the Heartless at any point.

You remember I didnt claim scar, scar was only mentioned as flavor. As the role name of a possible scum member is the only thing that could come out of it. I dont see how it should have any effect whatsoever. If someone claims a bad character from the game it would be a dead giveaway that they are scum.

So nice to know I am obvscum based off of flavor from my claim. Seriously, you just need to die, you are not helping anything.

[raider8169]

Why is raider not blue?

Voting analysis, secret formula, etc.

That and I am townie

[raider8169]

Yeah. It was 2 points against Kise, and then a point that made the raider wagon less interesting.

This is clear now.

Either way, looking for a vote count so I can vote raider safely.

Why would you vote me and want it to be safe? Its not like I have anything that is not on the table. If you wanted to ask me something I am here. This is really an odd thing to say considering today is stalling and I am voting Ace and just waiting to see if people get on board or lynch me instead. But you are worried about voting me safely...

[raider8169]

What is it with double posts today. Either way this day is stalling and I would like to know if I am today's lynch or if you guys believe my claim and realize I am a townie.

[raider8169]

What is it with double posts today. Either way this day is stalling and I would like to know if I am today's lynch or if you guys believe my claim and realize I am a townie.

/vote:raider

This seems kind of like rushing the game to me. You claim a Vanilla Townie, so we have little to lose. "Yes, yes you are right. You caught me" is a bit too wifomy, cleared Iec really fast. You said you were ok with my lynch, but also said you needed to look into it. We have a potential breadcrumb report on you. OOOo, later you think I'm town(a personal tell of mine). Your VT claim said something of another role name out there, which is kind of....weird. To say the least.

If you are town, please do us all a favor and posts your last thoughts when you get to L-1, might not even be a bad idea to get a head start on that.

Have you not been reading!?!?!? I have posted my final thoughts a few times now and they have not changed outside of maybe Joe. I am also not trying to rush the day but the day has stalled and with my lynch at least everyone will know my thoughts were from a confirmed townie.

@Everyone: Do yourself a favor and after I am lynched read back and look for those people that tried to derail my thoughts or stall so they do not mean as much.

[raider8169]

Well then.....

/unvote

Interesting find wolf, interesting find.

(goes to iso some dead people)

Care to explain why his post made you unvote when what he said only made me look bad?

[raider8169]

Flare's flavor explained why he was helping the town, where as raider just tells us in not mod sounding words a simple recap of The Lion King, without any reason he is helping the town. And why would he be given information on what villan is in this game? That doesn't sound like something Slicey would give away.

All the townies have the same win condition which is not part of the flavor. Look at the sample role for example (Post 1). Mines says that and so would everyone's else when they claim so I didnt see a need for it. That makes it all too easy for scum to copy it so it would be a null tell when/if someone posts it.

[raider8169]

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The fact that my role pm says nothing about why I help the town.

This

Unvote, Vote Hayker

[raider8169]

I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

True Iecerint, it's an iffy situation. I still say though why would Slicey tell Raider a villain that is in the game? Even if Slicey didn't tell him who Scar was, it is still information that I don't see Slicey giving out.

I have said this before but who cares if there is a role of scar in the game or not. I am not even positive there is someone with that role name. No one is going to claim it so speculating on a possibility that the role could be in this game is just a waste of time. At best it is nothing to be concerned about as we can also just name every evil character in the game and say these roles could be in this game.

[raider8169]

I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

True Iecerint, it's an iffy situation. I still say though why would Slicey tell Raider a villain that is in the game? Even if Slicey didn't tell him who Scar was, it is still information that I don't see Slicey giving out.

I have said this before but who cares if there is a role of scar in the game or not. I am not even positive there is someone with that role name. No one is going to claim it so speculating on a possibility that the role could be in this game is just a waste of time. At best it is nothing to be concerned about as we can also just name every evil character in the game and say these roles could be in this game.

[raider8169]

Bolded I did. Sounds like you are positive there raider, and now you say you aren't?

At first I thought that but looking at Flareonage's claim is similar to mine in that we both want to accomplish something. However, I do not think there is a char that has her "notes." In the same sense there may not be a char named scar that I want to get revenge on. To be honest it doesnt matter one way or the other to me; scum is scum. The role name can be scar or something else but either way I want them dead.

I am not saying there is not a role named scar only that I do not know and scar is mentioned in my role PM.

[raider8169]

Eh whatever.

I'm Simba, king of my homelands which is the Pride Lands. Scar so killed my father, the bastard. I was so trying to kill him so the only real help I have is that someone named scar is in this game and is scum. Yeah I know not of much help and of course you guys think its something off the wiki or some crap like that.

!

Explain.

Go back and read the post right above yours...

[raider8169]

Ok something screwy is going on with the boards today. I post something and then another post shows up instead. Somehow I repeated an earlier post only a while after. My internet connection is fine but posts take a few minutes to go be posted.

[raider8169]

Well if the raider wagon is bigger I guess I'll hop on.

Unvote, Vote: raider

. I've said many times I'm happy with either a Kise lynch or a raider lynch today.

Thats being the good little scum.

[raider8169]

@Raider. This is VERY important. Did your PM say Scar was explicitly scum? Or did it only say he was in the game? Cut to pieces sounds as though it could fit. Furthermore ive got further thought to your alignment but i want to hear the answer to the above and why you appear to doubt yourself and the information you have claimed in your pm. It does not read well even i read that wrong. Why are you now doubting yourself?

It does not say that Scar is in the game but it does say evil scar when referring to him. It does say that he killed my father.

If you look at the claim of Jimmy Cricket and that he is looking for his notes. That gives him direction in the game but do you really think that there is a character that has his notes? I could see something similar in my case. Scar is a ghost in KH and that doesnt seem very logical for a character when there are other scum characters to use. It is outguessing the mod but it makes sense to me now that I have more information (other peoples roles and how they tie into the game).

[raider8169]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

So when a cop claims a guilty result everyone believes him right? What about when he finds out he is an insane cop? He finds out more information about his role as more things are revealed. Would you rather the cop not say something and lynch the person who would now be seen as town? Something similar has happened to me. You have the same information I have now so you should be able to understand how I was misunderstood. If I felt is was such a huge thing to think I was mistaken or a possible change to my stance the townie thing to do would be to inform everyone. When I am killed everyone will take what I say to be the truth. If I try and hide it then I would be hurting the rest of the town. You act like this is the first time this has happened this game. Look at DGB's claim before she replaced in and read what she claimed. They are not the same is that lynch worthy? People that have revealed information might have to change their understanding as they see how it fits into the game.

I wouldnt be surprised to see me lynched at anytime. The worse thing I could do is leave bad information to everyone else which would be confirmed once my role is flipped.

[raider8169]

To me we are dealing with two liars today, Raider and Kise, question is which one do we choose?

I understand that Kise lied and almost got who people are now believing to be a townie lynched, yet if DN wasn't acting so scummy I don't think people would have gone along with it as quickly as they did. Flare has been slighty more active, but just barely, and maybe should be looked at again. Had DN flipped town Kise would have had a lot of explaining to do, but I am not sure that a scum memeber would admit to lying to get a possible townie lynched.

Raider, on the other hand, to me has lied about his role PM, saying that Scar is in the game, then saying Scar is not or might not be in the game. To me, lying about your role PM means you are trying to save yourself from being lynched, which is very scummy to me. Because of this I am still comfortable with my Raider vote because I do not believe his Simba claim since he lied about the Scar part of it, so i therefore think he is lying about the whole thing.

You can really put what I did in the same category as what kise did? Scar can still be in the game but seriously you are making a big deal about a possible scum play role name? Does it really matter if scar is in the game or not? Is that really going to change how you play the game? Could you have not guessed that without me saying anything at all just by making a list of all the bad guys in the game? Would you have rather me not said anything at all when I had a different understanding of how the flavor in the roles tie into the game based on new information that have been revealed in the game?

[raider8169]

Yes I am making a big deal out of it Raider. You

claimed

you knew Scar was in the game. You basically said you were privy to information. Then you went back and said you didn't know, when you said you knew the first time around. DN (nor Flare) was not lynched. Kise lied. []bYou[/b] lied and I believe you lied about your role entirely. I don't care which villains are in the game, scum is scum.

Both lies are bad either way, i am just saying that you lied to try and protect yourself, which means you lied about your role, in other words you are scum.

So you just want anyone you can easily kill dead...noted.

I never said I was privy to information I just said I had flavor information. Look back in the other flavor information that has been released in this game and tell me if all of those were true or if those players lied as well. Also, why are you only focusing on Kise and me? You ignore the rest or at least dont make a big deal or even note of them before. Why now?

Also why not answer the rest of the questions? Or is it like you said you dont care about the roles that are in this game? If that was really the case you wouldnt care about the flavor I claimed and if that was the case you wouldnt be trying to call me out like you are. Your trying to use everything against me but say you dont care. Which is it?

[raider8169]

I don't care if Scar is or is not in this game, what I care about is that you said (once again) you

knew

Scar was in this game, then you said you didn't know if he was or wsn't, you lied about the fact that he was or wasn't in this game, which to me means you lied about your role pm, I won't say this again raider.

So in short you are mad that you think I lied about flavor? Not that I lied about a night action or something that actually effects the game any?

BTW, its wasnt a lie more a misunderstanding on my part. It happens and I am sure will happen agian in this game and also happened before in this game as well. You just dont care about those ones.

[raider8169]

Great game! Thanks slicey!