Border of Touhou and Mafia ~ Game Over!

[Plum]

The battery power is going down fast!

Once again, I blame Marisa.

Also, this DN wagon interests me.

You're not voting DeathNote.

Fair point I hold against RBT.

Vote: DeathNote

He deserves nothing less.

[Plum]

Sniff* I smell a mislynch.

Hm. I don't. Unless you've decided you enjoy deliberately anti-town play in which case you'd technically be breaking site-wide rules. Are you?

[Plum]

*facepalm*

This whole game is going to devolve into *headdesk*.

[Plum]

Okay, so rereading, sorry for delay I'm a big meanie face k thx.

Mipe is erratic early with his explained random voteon the guy who random-voted him and the character claim (which I can't view now because I'm on the computer I'm too lazy to get Adobe installed right on even though it works on my sister's account go figure) and a weird semi-parry towards DN to which he only adds a vote after Xyl pressures him to do so and Pesco also votes him.

So he's as good a proposed shot from SpyreX as any.

In the post after SpyreX's proposed shot Mipe claims he's a Moon Bunny and "your mind will be shattered if you try to kill me."

So I find it weird that instead of everyone, SpyreX especially, asking what the heck that meant and what effect the "mind shattering" would have on SpyreX/the kill no one does and Spy shoots.

Riddle me this. Why didn't my kill work?

So, who did you try to kill?

But

that

is plain idiotic. Reading the thread is SO tech when you see this kind of stuff. The question is whether it's null idiotic or scummy which will take a reread in iso to gauge Mipe as a whole.

Plum: I miss you! Where have you been since your vote on Deathnote?

Lazy/busy/sorry about it.

Mipe's Vanilla claim is obv not the whole story, though. No special abilities does not line up with claiming the mind-shatter thing correlating to the failed Vig shot. Apparently, to those more familiar with the flavor the mind-shatter/(somewhat?) bulletproof bits line up as well.

Meh.. I guess I must..

Like Dramonic guessed, I'm

Reisen U. Inaba

. While the fact that I can shatter minds seems scummy, actually, I haven't done anything wrong. Only thing I want is to get all these troublemakers destroyed so I can go back to my original schedule.

I'm the

Only

(in)

sane townie

, EG, I have no special abilities.

The first time he mentions mind-shatter it appears to be in response to Spy's proposal that Spy dayvig Mipe. Now it's just a flavor bonus. Compare:

Help me, EIRINNNN!

To say it bluntly, I'm a moon bunny and

your mind will be shattered if you try to kill me.

VS.

While the fact that I can shatter minds seems scummy, actually, I haven't done anything wrong.

The first time he insinuates the 'mind-shatter' thing affects kills and is role/ability-related. The second time he insinuates that the mind-shatter is just flavor and asserts explicitly that he has no special powers. The two don't line up and the second doesn't line up with actions today (i.e. SpyreX's failed dayvig shot).

Unless I read uncorrectly, he said that he shot me. I have no protection whatever unless somebody put some kind of protection to me.

Which double doesn't line up with this; Mipe obviously knew that he had some sort of power that affected kills on him/the player who tries to kill him at the very least. It does, however, sorta line up with the possibility that Mipe is scum who faked not knowing that Spy shot him to, say, better set up a clueless VT claim which FAILED.

Yah I'm leaning towards mipe breadcrumbing his bulletproof as well, at this rate I'm not gonna put the L-1 on yet, don't want a pre-mature lynch.

^ scum

My gutdar agrees. Read on Pesco isn't as strong, hmph. Mipe now, others later.

Darnit, Vaya hammered where I would have.

[Plum]

Zwets, it's seriously been too long. Or not long enough. Or something.

[Plum]

Since I've played with you.

[Plum]

Hi, prodded, sorry. Trying to ctahc up on stuff tonight (was V/LA since Friday till today but forgot to announce it here and lots of stuff are eating my attention up so I'm coming as I can. If not tonight, hopefully long-ish post tomorrow to make up for it.

Ciao.

[Plum]

I know. Here I am.

You know what they say: most games of mafia are won by the side that got fewer village idiots.

So I fear.

A lot of people were lynching him because Spy didn't shoot him, not because of lying.

Cool; in a game where I feel rudderless an interesting point I can investigate.

Dramonic: you guessed Mipe's role and noted the mind-shattering thing. You however said:

Vote:Mipe

So you're townie but you survived a kill? Sure...

then almost directly afterwards

To say it bluntly, I'm a moon bunny and your mind will be shattered if you try to kill me.

That's a nice one too. It kinda explains why the kill would fail too (illusions or stuff like that, freakin bunny)

I don't get it. You noted the mind-shattering thing first

and

guessed Mipe's role when he posted that. Why were you so surprised - and why did you note it as vote-worthy that he survived - when it looked like he hinted it and you knew the flavor well enough to know it was plausible for that role to be kill-immune and Town?

Actually: You confirmed you knew Mipe's role and its implications. Spy's kill failed. You specifically said Riesen flavor didn't fit

after

the mind-shattering claim and despite this knowledge and asked Spy to explain. Then you voted Mipe for not dying, then you claimed that the mind-shattering would explain the kill's failure (and implied it fit with the flavor).

Huh?

I'm tired of Hulk's policy-push on Zwets. I oppose straight policy lynches as a general principle and I've seen scum hiding behind policy-lynch pushes too often for my taste.

FOS: Hulk

.

Zakeri's claim of no real reason to give the extra vote to Pesco isn't heartening in the least.

WAIT. After the Zak bit, dramonic votes Zak because he apparently doesn't believe that an inventor could give giving doublevote abilities.

Then

Now, miss Zakeri admits to givng someone (Pesco) a double-vote. A bit strange.
However, we can suppose her giving is not limited to votes (AKA, guess she's an inventor)

What type of town inventor would give fake-daykills?

Didn't you already say you believed that the kill was real and that Mipe's role blocked it?

Vote: dramonic

I have a hammer only policy. It's not a scumtell.

The fact that it's not a scumtell is a scumtell itself.

It just means you're volunteering yourself as a justified mislynch because you're willing to unjustifiably mislynch other people. You're basically doing the Mafia's job for them so they don't have to get lynched.

I'm alright with a Vig on Mipe or Zwet. In fact, I'd be happy if both of them died today, so do whichever you want.

In light of Spy's 312 I like it even less. The first sentence is even nonsensical. So.

Dramonic quickly jumps on the Sotty hate.

But SpyreX... All we did together, was it for naught? ;_;
You break my heart...

Unvote
Vote: Sotty7

Which he quickly turns into a Vaya vote, to pressure Vaya, once Sotty posts and questions Dram on how he plans to get Vaya to post - it's a good point that thought he complained twice about Vaya's lack of contributions and about wanting to get her to post he didn't really do anything about it until this point.

Plan to reread Mufasa soon because I had some bad pings on the scumdar yesterday on him.

[Plum]

Plum, I was pretty sure Mipe was bulletproof or something of that vein. But he claimed townie! No duh I vote him.

True; fair enough. Was tired then, am tired now, and I apologize.

unvote

I may have no strong scumreads and may be very frustrated that I don't have a handle on the game, but since Day 2 I

have

had a strong Townie read on Xyl and would rather see most other players lynched before him.

I agree with Xyl about Zakeri's random-fire doublevote grant not looking especially good, and suggesting that Xyl scummily interpreted it as evidence for a Zak/Pesco scumteam makes it look the worse. Misrepping a suspicion based on a legit scumtell (claimed random actions/actions without reason to target the target can indicate either lack of Townie initiative or, significantly, scum with something to hide/no better lie. I can definitely see scum given onetime doublevote granting powers granting it to someone random/likely to use the DV to help mislynch and then claim it was random). Calling it a policy lynch when it was not and when Xyl was not even voting Zak is sketchy and the best I've got to go on right now.

Vote: Zakeri

Letssee.

Xyl, is that a request for a complete scum/Town breakdown? It would probably be a useful exercise in getting some freaking reads/concentrating enough to get a hold on the game. So priority: tomorrow night, G-d willing. I especially need to reread for Mufasa, Sotty, Hulk, Elmo, dramonic, who either seemed scummy to me at earlier points and I'd like to see how scummy they really add up to now or who have garnered attention but I don't have a strong read on or who I didn't quite internalize were actually playing the game.

[Plum]

Do you think Zwet hasn't been scummy?
What about Xyl?

I find Zwets neutral-okay Zwets, has not shown tells which are for him clear scumtells. I have a strong Town-read on Xyl.

Town

SpyreX - Extremely strong Town read on him since Day 2. Contributed, good scumhunting, great gut feelings.
Xyl - Ditto what I said for Spy

Townish

Kmd: Pretty good contributions.

Neutralish

Vaya - Normallish Vaya needing replacement on a gut level rings true, but Tubbyneeds to post. Much much better lynches in this game though, for pure potential of the lynchee being actual scum.

Sotty - I read Spy's case (which he grants is based on gut churning) but don't feel any are extremely strong scumtells - I could see a person might have a gut 'this is not good' feeling about a DN lynch Day 1, and what else he had posted was neutralish. Don't think his avoidance of the DN wagon was nearly as suspect as Mufasa's behavior regarding the Mipe fiasco. Like Xyl, I don't really feel it. Some newer contributions make me feel better about him.

Zwets - From what I remember of my games with Zwets, I have a gut feeling of 'probably okay' on him.

Elmo - Notable for denouncing too-quick Day 2 for decent reason.

dramonic - Talks about the need to do something about Vaya's lurking two or three times without actually doing something to try to get him to post besides vague mumbling.

Pesco - Find Xyl vote underwhelming; Xyl posted plenty of substance and good reasons why he 'lynch cheered'.

Scummish

Hulk - After the Mipe kill fiasco he first responds by talking about Zwet and his desire to (admittedly policy) lynch Zwet. Only when Elmo prompts him to discuss bit does he give a generic "Oh Mipe is probably scum I could vote him too". Problem with Zwets-policy push is that he seems to imply that Zwets is unlikely to be scum several times. Partly it may be stylistic about policy-push (and I'm not usually thrilled with policy-lynch pushers, too many times I've found scum hiding behind them) but the general tone is unhappy-making. I also disagree with many of his reads, but that's really not by itself indicative of much. Appeal to emotion about possibly getting lynched, promises big pre-death post seems to try to get the Townie cred such a post can give before he's in that danger.

Zakeri - As before, dislike random DV-grant a bit but dislike his representation of Xyl's position on it even more. I dislike his positions on Xyl as well but am too tired right now to do thorough analysis. So for now put down an additional gut scum read and I'll hopefully have a play-by-play tomorrow.

Scummy

Mufasa - I remember much of what I didn't like sprung from his Post 193 Doesn't address Mipe as probable liar, support but hesitant looks like scum trying to disassociate self from what he knows is a mislynch by feigning caution. Compare to Elmo's hesitation to lynch, which looks much more neutral/neutral-leaning Town. His Post 211 is little better, says the obvious that the failed kill indicates BP-Mipe or Vig-Spy (unless I'm reading it wrong and he meant Vig-Mipe, which really makes no sense) but doesn't discuss that Mipe had actually claimed VT, resigned to Zwets hammering Mipe, not arguing against it, not discussing the contradictions in Mipes claim, just passively hoping someone else already under pressure would end up with the blame of the hammer of a mislynch and it wouldn't be on his shoulders.

Unvote; Vote: Mufasa

Insinuates that Vaya's Mipe-hammer was somehow unacceptable when he himself equivocated over the issue and avoided hammering like the plague, now trying to tie hammervote to extreme scumminess. Vaya's stance and behavior was miles more pro-Town and miles less scummy than Vaya's. Continues to focus on Vaya at the expense of scumhunting - at least, we get plenty of push on Vaya, push for Vaya to post but not much talk about people actually contributing a lot in the way of tells/info to the game. I could go on but it's so late and it's been so late for so long this past week. Suffice it to say that I'd put my money and your spare change on Mufasa being scum.

[Plum]

Plum I love your avatar. What ever would possess you to get something like that?

Some people seem to think I'm cute as a

Green

Blue-Skinned Space Babe. I kinda dig it. Maybe when I'm awake.

[Plum]

Worse post ever! Tubby need give opinion on Mufasa.

NOW!

May I ask why you say this after putting me down as Town but not discussing the case on Mufasa, my current top suspect, whom you've barely mentioned except for putting him down as slightly Town once or twice?

Mufasa, why am I so Town now?

Xyl, my neutralish reads were generally in least scummy to scummiest - I was tired and such, so it wouldn't be an exact science, but suffice it to say that Sotty is on the Town side of neutral and Pesco on the scum side.

I need to process Zak's claimed Busdrive. That means I needed a refresher course on Busdriveing . Hm, makes general sense, as does his point about Dram's claimed follow-the-experienced-guy thing not sounding so hot.

I could definitely stomach a Hulk lynch, but want some discussion of the Mufasa case and also for him to show up and respond.

[Plum]

I don't care who you are Hulk, but everyone should carry an opinion on everyone, and it seems you are masking a little bit too much.

unvote vote: Hulk

Pot, meet kettle.

Mufasa, can I have a player-by-player scum/Town/neutral analysis with brief explanation for your positions?

[Plum]

That's a pretty aggressive claim you have against me. Any reason why we should trust you? (Hint: I won't)

Maybe because you killed Spy.

That'd be a good one.

vote: dramonic

[Plum]

I'm kinda not totally buying this. Didn't you have a Town read on Spy last I checked? You say you're protecting yourself against the ones most liable to fool you, but what about the ones you actually find

scummy

?

[Plum]

What's your take on KMD v Dram?

With Dram's claim of Koishi, I don't doubt him because it fits the flavour.

KMD reads pretty town to me this game. If he's got Touhou flavour to explain himself I can choose a side based on that.

From what I can gather about the Touhou flavour of the game, it's canon or highly popularized fanon only. In other words, knowing enough about Touhou can give a bit of confirmation.

Wow that was specific and enlightening and totally not beating around the bush about what you actually think right now.

Anyway. I'm inclined to believe Kmd over Dram, which would indicate that Dram is likely scum. I'd also be willing to lynch Pesco, especially after the weird 'distancing' comments from Mufasa yesterday, indirect association with Mufasa (agreeing that Mipe may have breadcrumbed bulletproof but discussing Mipe's apparent lie if that was the case at all) &c. I have next to no time right now to post a case on that count, or analyzing to see whether his push on Xyl was scummy/how scummy it could have been.

Dram has Kmd's claim against him and the weird way he pushed pressuring Vaya but didn't actually pressure her going for him beiing scum.

I'd be okay with both at the moment; tomorrow comes analysis seeking an actual preference. But I think, pre reread, that it's not unlikely that they're both scum.

[Plum]

Kmd, can you share your votecount analysis?

Also. Can everyone do everyone a favor? Please post the following in its format as follows:

VI, great modding work so far; I love this game.

[Plum]

Plum, you miscapitalized Vi's name.

I did indeed.

Please post the following in its format as follows:

[Plum]

Plum, what will happen if you get everyone to post that?

I need it to activate a super-town bonus I recently got my hands on which would definitely give us an advantage, especially in this specific situation (besides, it expires if I don't use it today).

[Plum]

The only scum I didn't help lynch was Hulk

Out of two scum lynched.

Specifically, Sotty's interaction with Hulk when you read her in iso makes you (me, that is) feel iffy.

Xyl, do you not believe me when I say that it's in the Town's interest for everyone to post the line I mentioned? For reference:

VI, great modding work so far; I love this game.

If I was not clear, all capitalization in that sentence is intentional and integral to what needs to happen.

[Plum]

Xyl, I congratulate you on your flawless logic.

Unvote; Vote: Kylthixlm

This made me laugh. ~Vi

Zwets, you haven't posted the phrase I've asked of you. Please rectify that.

[Plum]

VI, great modding work so far; I love this game.

Just copy/paste that and post it, if you please.

[Plum]

Lemme see who hasn't pulled his/her weight . . . Elmo, Kmd4390. Kmd, please post the phrase as noted above. Elmo, please show your face or something.

I basically trust Xyl's famous meta after skimming a portion of a game where he didn't bus a buddy who claimed SK. Hm.

Zak is interesting; in one town/scum list post he has this:

2. dramonic - jumped from me to sotty to vaya to hulk. You can sure find a reason to jump on someone, but you can't seem to find a reason to stay or go back. Also note your vote on me was after Spy's vote on me. On Sotty you jumped on onto Spy's case along with Hulk, even though Spy didn't switch votes then. The vote for Vaya seems to be based on that your vote for Sotty is useless now that Sotty posted, even though you were supposedly voting to lynch scum, not to inactive prod. Finally, your reason for the leap on Hulk is almost literally "Who besides Xyl has the most votes on them?" -

Definately Scum, probably with Xyl.

And this:

15. Xylthixlm - I feel is purposely trying to mislead the town into lynchs the town shouldn't be falling for.

Mostly Scummy.

Where is his vote? Xyl. I don't really like.

[Plum]

You list Dram (flipped scum) as "definitely scum, probably with Xyl" and Xyl (probably not scum in my eyes, but anyway) as "mostly scummy". You vote for "mostly scummy" over "definitely scum", however.

[Plum]

So why was I supposed to say that phrase?

As soon as the last two stragglers post it as well, I'll be glad to tell you. For now, suffice it to say I'll get the Town an extra slice of pie today if everyone does it.

[Plum]

Vi, if we don't get Elmo back . . .

Would you like to finish that sentence?~ ~Vi

[Plum]

. . . battery power will keep dropping without any input from him. Which we need and I rather want.

[Plum]

Oh Kmd dear. Please post what I asked kthx.

[Plum]

Why is everyone assuming that:
A)Plum is town
therefore
B)we should do what she says

It's all right. I'm pretty sure you're Town, given both the Zak thing and the Dram thing, and there's no huge need to wait while the battery gets depleted.

Last Night I received a Dayvig that I can use

a) Only today (well, it expires if I let it sit)
b) Only on anyone who has referred to our gracious Mod as VI during the game

Okay. Now I just want to figure out who I want to use it on. Zak, Sotty, Elmo, maybe Tubby or Zwets. Probably Zak or Elmo; need reread.

[Plum]

And you've shown your goodwill, so all is cheerful happy.

I am like 800 words short for NaNoWriMo for what's technically yesterday, so see yah.

[Plum]

Zak, if it so pleases you, claim. Day is beginning to wind down and I'd rather have enough time to shoot and allow any info from the death to be discussed before the battery goes dead. If you don't claim, it's mostly all the same to me as far as whether I'll shoot you, because at this point I'd kill you. Okay?

[Plum]

Conversation is stagnating anyway, so it might be a good time to out with it anyway.

Night 3, I was given two vigs, a night vig and an unannounced day vig. The Night Vig, I decided to Use on Mufasa because I thought he was the most suspicious due to Hulk's scumlist. I didn't decide to go after Dramonic because I already had a case on him from yesterday that I was going to run with.

During day four, I noticed that Pesco was acting oddly in regards to Dramonic. I also saw the Mufasa/Pesco connection, and it was a very valid observation. He was the target for my daykill yesterday. His death flavor doesn't match my kill flavor, though, which means he died directly as a result of Dramonic's death.

I didn't have any night 4 actions as a result of using the daykill.

After Zakeri is dead, if the game isn't over, we can lynch zwet.

I would rather you lynch Tubby after I die.

Zak. Claim flavor for your kills, please. I mean, what were the abilities called? My dayvig has an ability name. Also if you don't mind explaining your flavor/claiming your rolename. It can only help clear this up a little, especially considering you've already claimed VT.

[Plum]

That's two lunatics dead and three (count 'em) Phantasmals.

Sorry, Sotty.

[Plum]

Ironically, I was debating between Elmo and Sotty.

vote: tubby216

Rather lynch tubby than Zwets.

[Plum]

Plum, did you shoot Sotty or Elmo?

Sotty.

[Plum]

Without asking for a claim? Because, you know, it would have been nice to get a claim from the

tracker

.

It would have been. Time runneth low, however, and claim evaluations take time. I wanted to just shoot someone who looked like probable scum. I could list for you what I was seeing in Sotty iso and Dram iso and Hulk iso which made me think it a decent decision. In 20/20 hindsight, yeah, it would have been better had I asked for the claim, or shot Elmo instead, as some of my gut was pushing me to do.

[Plum]

I was inclined to believe that Zak

had

shot Mufasa. Still am. Mufasa seems to have been role-connected with both groups which have not flipped Town - Phantasmals (in yellow) and Lunatics (in red). Mufasa was the only one not "sapped" on the only Night with more than one kill. If anyone else wants to claim he did that, please. If not, Zak now looks like probable not-Lunatic

and

probable not-Phantasmal, which is more than I can say, rolebased-wise, about basically anyone else.

[Plum]

well sure then

unvote, vote plum

Oh G-d, please don't tell me this is another game where I'll have pegged someone as such obvscum it makes me sick but he slips through my fingers.

Xyl: I accept that my play was poor in that instance. I regret that you find me scummy, but I can't unkill Sotty so the best thing I can do is make it as blazingly obvious to you as it is to me that Tubby is scum (or if he isn't I'll have to reach through the internet and throttle him after the game). I will, however, make a brief defense:

Consider that I tend to be fairly conservative and overexplain-y as scum. especially in a game which ended recently (to the degree that in a recent game as scum I explained why I thought Ythill was was Town

in LYLO

, when, as he pointed out later, there was no real Town incentive to do, קל וחומר‎ with a daykill I certainly would have made a case on Sotty and probably not have risked looking bad by not asking for a claim). Consider also that I am mostly unversed in the art of the Daykill. I cannot be sure I'd agree with your general approach, but the fact remains that I am a neophtye and that my mistakes (while certainly regrettable) are more likely indicators of newbness at Daykilling than scummy Daykilling, especially in light of the first part of my defense.

That will be all.

All: Consider how Tubby is shamelessly snagging onto your argument against me without even bothering to

pretend

to think for himself (note he asked for your reason for voting me and followed, without commenting at all for himself what he thought of the play Xyl found scummy). Consider how he did that yesterday when Xyl voted Pesco over Dram, and consider that Dram

flipped scum

. Despite the fact that:

and so scum is either dram or kmd and everyone is leaning dram.

He posts the above without voting, asks if Kmd is confirmed Town, then, despite the fact that he agreed to the apparent dichotomy, votes Pesco because he agrees with Xyl because he "hasn't lead me astry before".

On that topic - which appears again in his vote for me - let me quote the relevent portion of a recent post from Zakeri:

Tubby by far looks the scummiest here. for all of his votes, he goes for the "I feel/I agree/I'd rather, but" style. A Quick look in Iso shows he's never once stated why he felt someone or something someone did was scummy or not. This persists even though he claims he's read through the game twice. This demonstrates to me, and hopefully others that he's not attempting to scumhunt and just trying to get more lynches into the game.

This becomes even more blatant in this exchange found on page 28:

I did quick rereads of the living players, and most of them look vaguely but not strongly town. tubby216 and zwet are glaring exceptions.

well it ain't me so

vote, zwet

It startles me to see how many people seem to have missed that his reason for voting Zwet isn't "I think he's most likely scum" but instead "Please don't lynch me."

He claims to have read the game twice over, and that he was only joking when he presented the replacements rule - reading the last two pages and following the most Pro-town guy's lead. I don't think he was joking when he said it, because he still acts like he has not read most of the game, and is still following Xyl's lead like a puppy to the extent that his vote is "the guy Xyl will vote for that is not me."

CONFIRM vote: Tubby216

[Plum]

Oh G-d, please don't tell me this is another game where I'll have pegged someone as such obvscum it makes me sick but he slips through my fingers.

So... why didn't you kill tubby? Hmm?

He became obvscum when he voted me the way he did, as I explained above. I am praying that now it is clear to me that he's almost certainly scum he won't slip through my fingers because of my perceived scumminess. This happened the time I was lynched and it was incredibly frustrating and morale-lowering.

Plum seems incredibly nervous.

Yes. I do that when suspected as any alignment. What do you think of Tubby?

[Plum]

Do you want to claim or not?

[Plum]

SWEET.

XYL - TOLDJA SO.

[Plum]

Sorry for the crudeness of that last statement. But triumph feels good. Sorry, Xyl, I got caught up in the moment.

[Plum]

SWEET.

XYL - TOLDJA SO.

I actually wouldn't have gotten at all upset if you had suddenly dayvigged either tubby or zwet.

Yeah, well, I felt kinda cruddy anyway when Sotty flipped Town. But I

did

snag a Phantasmal while I was at it.

[Plum]

I'm biased, but I thought Sotty was fairly obv town. I'm pretty curious why you'd vig me before zwets / tubby, Plum..?

I vigged Sotty because of interactions I thought I saw between her and Hulk/Dram. If I were scum I probably would have made a case and everything before striking - I tell the truth when I say I'm generally more cautious as scum and have generally moved in the direction of less caution as Town - but for now all I can say is I thought I saw interactions and I was probably overthinking it way too much (I'd have probably gone for the only gut-scum pick if I was really smart, and that, at the time, was . . . you, Elmo. Part of why I didn't was Kmd's vote analysis, which probably also influenced me in the way of killing Sotty).

Can't really fault Plum for her vig

Yes I can.

The play might have been poor, but I offed the last Phantasmal - and seriously, no one was looking at it like that before, at least not openly (and I

did

actually notice that before striking and I think I took it into account as well. Though once Tubby got offed and such we'd probably have gone in that direction). Elmo wasn't really being looked at much, so at least the poor play had a decent benefit.

In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player

is

scum. Granted it only happens when the player is scummy

and

tries to suspect me, and granted it's only happened twice, so small sample size. But it feels okay.

[Plum]

In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player

is

scum.

Yes. This, exactly. Note that such a player coming up town

does not change the fact that they were scum

.

If you maintain this attitude you, too, can become a berserk policy lyncher.

Mmmmmf. I notice I hadn't finished changing the second-person structure to third person as I'd intended.

While I appreciate where you're coming from, I'm talking about this from satisfactory results of scumhunting (which you probably would argue is what you're talking about as well, but we both know what I mean. Also what I'm talking about ends up with something radically not-policy-lynch-causing. A policy lynch is for all applicable games, usually with most games applicable to a general type of policy lynch. This is more a degree of surety in scumfinding which is very rare but also produces good results when it comes to lynching players who flip anti-Town).

Fun facts: At one point I was so busy and behind on this game and not feeling this game that (after I'd already told Vi that I was going to be able to play properly and stay in the game) I sent Vi a PM saying that I really couldn't do it, this was the first time I'd replace out of any game (without getting my sister to temp for me, which did happen once) and pride in that was all good and well but not at the expense of everyone's enjoyment of the game so please replace me &c. I had a change of heart before Vi opened it and I deleted it. And made a lovely long post that night and got into the game (the problem was all I was seeing was Spy + Xyl obvobvTown and not much more except Mufasa irritating me - and the reread did that some good, I can tell you).

[Plum]

Plum: What I

really

meant is that when you're dealing with uncertainty sometimes you make the right decision at the time and still get a bad result.

Fair enough.

When you're dealing with uncertainty sometimes you make the wrong decision at the time and still get a good result.

[Plum]

If I honestly followed this code to it's intended meaning, I would have Shot Xyl.

Shooting obvtown people is bad.

I did find you obvtown, too.

Zak - yar, the Xanatos worked out in my favor. Really, there were 8 alive. I wasn't going to shoot myself, so seven potential shots, three of which would end up killing a scumbag. And the only one of the seven I might've considered shooting who

wasn't

a shot that netted scum was Zwets

Game with many Inventors is a bit swingy, which I don't happen to mind. Swingy = luck is expected to happen. I got lucky enough that what was probably less than optimal play gave the Town a pretty good result.