The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[SerialClergyman]

Hi everyone!

Spy, did you use an ability that might have caused your death from natural causes?

[SerialClergyman]

Caught up during night, to the detriment of all my other games. Plus - hello, good lookin'

[SerialClergyman]

Spyrex -

Spy, did you use an ability that might have caused your death from natural causes?

[SerialClergyman]

hmm.

Does your ability, if anything, read active or passive or what?

[SerialClergyman]

I would be fine with a spyrex lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

What appeared to happen was DGB possibly softclaiming some role info, BM fishing for that info (don't worry, I approve ) and I can't tell if that's a confirm or not.

Not only do I not approve of softclaims (as evidenced by an ongoing game of mine) but it's even less crucial when the scum can't fail to hit a power role.

I don't think Spy's story adds up and I'm suspicious of the death/ghost mechanic. I am in favour of stringing up the poltergeist.

vote Spyrex

milkshake - why can't he be called an Alchemist? He already flagged yesterday that his name didn't end in -ER.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry DGB, which attempt on his life are you talking about?

As far as I can tell, he's there standing above his own body and crying. There's nothing to indicate any sort of attempt on his life. The flavour reads inconclusive as to what happened, but is consistent with just about any variation of actions, including being recruited or converted, being a doppelganger of some kind, being a ghost etc etc.

There's nothing at all I can see that suggests the mafia tried to kill him.

As for his claim, I don't believe he's telling us everything. I don't like the role, flavour and particularly his claimed action.

So sorry you're being caused to regret playing the game, but you're jumping to conclusions with Spy that I don't like.

[SerialClergyman]

Spy, I have a role that interracts with people who have active roles and targetted you last night. IF you have an active role, my result doesn't make sense.

Let me put some logic in this argument, if Spyrex actually was scum he would not have tried to kill snow bunny unless he lacks the aformentioned two brain cells.

This makes a hell of a lot of sense however. SB, can you give us more information about what happened to you last night, or anything that might shed light on the situation?

[SerialClergyman]

Also spy, sumkming up my position as jumping on the wagon when literally all I've done this game is question you and was the first to vote you is less than observant.

[SerialClergyman]

serialclergyman wrote:
I would be fine with a spyrex lynch.

Thank you for that contribution. It's nice to know you feel so strongly about a Spyrex lynch and are so interested in helping the town that you would back up your opinion with a logical argument as to why we should lynch spyrex. You are an example to us all.

Unfortunately, I only have one vote and cannot vote all the people rushing to lynch what is, in essence, a confirmed townie - because anyone with two brain cells to rub together has got to know that the attempt on Spyrex didn't come from town, but from scum.

Therefore, he is pretty much confirmed town.

* Thank you for reminding me of why I wanted to retire in the first place, and making me regret my decision to play again. *

Is there some posting restriction that says if I question a player who has a weird mechanic and an odd claim that other players have to respond like I've suggested a night of fun and frivolity with their saintly mothers? Stop getting your knickers in a twist and play nice.

I have role information that seemingly contradicts Spyrex's claim. The information isn't fullproof and says nothing about alignment, just contradicts the mechanics of what he is saying happened. I am also far from happy about his death/non-death and certainly not impressed by the 'if he "died" then mafia had to be involved so he's town' argument.

VP Baltar's argument about Spyrex using an action of some kind on SB IS very convincing though, and I'd like SB to come and explain exactly what happened from her end before shit gets real.

And Spy, while we're in a claiming mood, how many potions do you have? Are they all colours? Are you given any clues as to what they might do or is it pure guesswork?

If you have this role, why did you target SpyreX?

I read the full game from top to tail in the 2 nights before the game started up again. Spyrex was one of them ost active people in looking for weird mechanics early, I thought he may well have the sort of ability my role can interact with. Also, in my experience he's an excellent player and any chance I can get to find out information about him and his alignment would be useful.

[SerialClergyman]

No, i think what Milkshake is trying to say, is that SpyreX-scum might NOT have attempted to kill SB. SpyreX-scum might not have targetted SB atall!

SB confirmed something odd happened to her last night. Unless anyone else wants to put their hand up, I'm assuming that was Spyrex. The only other possibility is they are both scum together lying about it going for an odd gambit they hatched together which I think is extraordinarily unlikely.

But these sorts of issues are why I want to hear more from SB and possibly Spyrex.

[SerialClergyman]

I am the Toucher. I 'touch' 1 player at night. If they have an active ability, I am informed at daybreak what ability I've absorbed and the next night I get to either a) use that ability or b) touch another player.

I touched Spyrex and was informed I didn't receive an ability.

As I said, it's not alignment information and it's not 100% foolproof but it's definitely enough to make me suspicious of Spyrex, particularly when his current posts are nothing to write home about.

I agree third party seems likely.

[SerialClergyman]

What 'type' is your role? (you may have to refer to your pm)

[SerialClergyman]

Zzz more subtlety next time, please.

[SerialClergyman]

Spy - while I'm digging the whole action on sb thing, you can see my problem with this scenario, yes?

[SerialClergyman]

unvote

I'm not in a lynching mood yet. No one has given me a good reason why I should lynch Spyrex after he targeted SB last night. If anyone else gave her that ability, now is the time to speak. Doesn't mean I won't lynch you, Spy, because the whole role info/type thing is pretty dodgy, but I'm not feeling the scummy vibes and I'm sticking with gut over setup info for the time being.

What's everyone's thought on a massclaim? I'm not sold on the idea, but the thinking goes along the lines of:

a) We'll never be able to pick a fakeclaim when almost any role/mechanic is possible, so we might as well lock scum into them nice and early.
b) It might explain some of the stuff that's just causing confusion at the moment.
c) It's not like we're going to be outing our power roles - we're ALL power roles. We'll allow the scum to pick and choose who they want dead, which is a negative, but it's not like we only have 3 power roles and a massclaim will out them.

Thoughts?

[SerialClergyman]

Ha, chorus of no's. Fair enough.

If I was heavily sold on the idea, I'd point out that if we know everyone's role the coordination of all the bits of info could be vital and I do fear scum being able to claim something ridiculous yet possible.

Safeclaims are a genuine possibility though.

Ok, massclaim on the backburner, but I do think an earlier massclaim than in normal games may be warranted due to the 'scum are going to hit power any way' and 'lock fake claims in early' principles.

Spy - SB confirmed the night action and the results of it to a degree (although I'd liek her to really spell out exactly what happened.) But given that, do you still think it's likely she's scum?

[SerialClergyman]

SB - how do you think Spyrex knew something happened to you last night?

[SerialClergyman]

><

So you think he's scum who asked you if something strange happened to you last night on a whim, and it jsut happened that that night a completely different person gave you an ability?

[SerialClergyman]

SB, I don't know if you realise how rubbish that position is. You're trying to say that the simplest thing to do is to assume Spyrex's claim is false when you picked up an ability. That means that Spy asking you if somethign odd happened last night was a pure coincidence and by some fluke that someone or some mechanic, as yet unclaimed, gave you that ability.

Ugh.

That's voteworthy for me.

vote SB

[SerialClergyman]

@Kise - if you think I should have any idea about what you're hinting at, you should know I have absolutely nfi.

But I'm enjoying the tone and tenor of your posts greatly

[SerialClergyman]

Spy - do you have a set list of potions? Are they all colours etc etc?

[SerialClergyman]

Sure - I was worried about flirting with that line too. I just wanted to get an understanding of how your role might work.

[SerialClergyman]

Also SB, I absolutely want you to claim exactly what your new ability is.

[SerialClergyman]

Yeah, it was jsut the potion thing that was unclear to me. A listo f potions makes more sense than you naming a colour at the mod and the mod makign it up on the fly, or whatever.

[SerialClergyman]

I actually don't think she's denying that SpyreX targetted her with something (gave her a black potion), but she is denying that that necessarily gave her her mysterious ability that she won't tell us about. Remember that SpyreX had the whole not-death thing going on, which might have been the (only?) outcome of his supposed potion.

If you believe Spyrex targeted SB with anything, he's probably not scum. I don't get any scum motivation for pushing agaisnt the miller. There's heaps of juicy power roles yet unfound, why would you bother with someone likely to get lynched or killed at some point without an active ability?

[SerialClergyman]

You're suggesting I shouldn't pipe up when a player says something I think to be bullshit?

I'm suggesting maybe a sarcastic and snide little comment is less useful than just a reasonable question about it. Because maybe they have, for example, role information which is important to the situation driving their suspicion.

Also - your method of commenting as you read is frustrating when the issue you're commenting on has already been resolved, as the people above me can attest to.

Havign said that, I agree abotu my role name and was thinking about making a comment about paedophilia to breadcrumb but decided against it due to good taste

Active is specifrically mentioned in my role PM. This was why I was asking about Spy's actions last night for the first 5 or so posts, including one specifically askign if it was active or passive at one point.

If you followed the resulting conversation, the fact that Spyrex claims to not have a 'type' line in his role PM is suspicious. I have some sympathy with the -xr thought as well. However, as I've said numerous times, I don't see Spy as scum if he targets SB with his action (and see no reason atm to think this isn't true), more likely a third party.

I agree that it's possible everything is fine, the non-ER role and the lack of 'type' is genuine and he's town, but I'm not convinced. What I AM convinced of is SB's reasoning for thinking Spy is scum (and subsequent vote of someone else) is rubbish. More 1-shot ability claiming and SB votes imho.

[SerialClergyman]

...

Mine does not have that line specifically. However, it does reference the word Special.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok.

[SerialClergyman]

What

I

said always made sense - the question was what

Spyrex

said.

[SerialClergyman]

Papa Zito is absolutely town, by the way.

I think the last couple of pages have descended into very little to be honest. I don't think there's been a single vote change or much serious scumhunting at all.

I'd like to see more SB votes. All the cool people are on the wagon. Get it done, imho.

PS - to Sajin, i'd be more prepared to wait the extra day if everyone else wasn't a power role of some kind. SB is most likely to be scum in my eyes and her 1-shot isn't confirming so meh, if we lynch someone else we have a better chance of lynching a different protown role.

Also - missing one small thing is excusable, calling out for a claim that had already happened and quite obviously so looks like you've only just skimmed the thread and don't care much. So I'd still rate it as mildly scummy.

[SerialClergyman]

Oh, as for the third party stuff, my reasoning goes:

1) Flavour, type, claim are all a little off.
2) Scum isn't likely to target miller with ability.
3) Spyrex could well be a third party (without ruling out either town or scum.)

Since Volkan gave up his info and SB descended into scumminess I'm more happy thinkign Spy is town, but I certainly wouldn't rule anythign out.
Also, Benmage i'm waiting for a reply to a mod pm before I answer your question.

[SerialClergyman]

Wow, I totally mentally anticipated your questions with that simulpost. I'm awesome as.

Also - I had a gut town read on Spyrex, I don't think the explanation offered for the role conflicts is unreasonable and still noone has explained why he would target a miller as scum.

[SerialClergyman]

SB, the 'what will you do when you're wrong' question is possibly one of the worst in the game. I'm limited to doing what I think is right, and I think lynching you is right.

Plus - in this particular case, you are probably the least likely role to be of use to the town anyway. So happily, even if it was a reasonable question I can still sleep easy.

[SerialClergyman]

We have no clue what PR's scum might have this game. So its too much speculation.

Rubbish. You of all people shouldn't be talking about speculation, some of your theories have been well within the speculative. I see no reason for scum to target a miller who was likely to be knocked off otherwise, with either a negative or positive ability.

Did SB ever reveal what the oneshot ability gained was?

How did you miss this??? Not only is it important, Sajin missed it and was told about it just last page! How did you miss it twice??

Would it be a terrible idea to consider talking about Rosso?

Go for your life. My point was asking more andm ore questions about SPyrex's role isn't scumhunting. If people don't want to vote SB, explain why and tell us who you do want to vote for. The game is getting a bit flat.

[SerialClergyman]

....

What in the HELL?

I don't even know where to begin.

Well, one thing: @SB - anything interesting happen to YOU last night?

This was Spy's first post of today.

[SerialClergyman]

Scum SpyreX might target her because some people declared her obvtown.

Possible but unlikely. Spyrex was in Emerald City Mafia (Mafia 96) with me, Kublai Khan, CKD, VP Baltar and possibly others who I can't remember off the top of my head, where KK rode a miller claim as scum to victory.

So he'd know that anyone in that game would be very suspicious of the miller.

Also - KK attacking the miller hard D1 is exactly what we did as scum in the last game - Zazie attacked KK's miller claim, died and flipped scum and noone questioned KK again. You can WIFOM whether he as scum was likely to try the same gambit again, but there you go.

[SerialClergyman]

I do have a mention of the Giver in my role PM.

[SerialClergyman]

You can direct me any time, Spy <3

[SerialClergyman]

Well, benmage is should definitely be an -er given his proponence of the -er theory..

I get giddy thinking about how many of you I could touch..

[SerialClergyman]

You don't lose your power. Night that I touch you it goes through, the next night I steal it then you get it back after that.

Sort of like a delayed blocker, I guess.

[SerialClergyman]

I think Spyrex was saying

1) If Papa has an -er role he must have an active role
2) Clergy can steal active roles
3) If Clergy doesn't steal a role when touching Papa, Papa must be lying about his role.

The assumption at number 1) seems to be incorrect according to chamber, so the possibility doesn't seem to work.

[SerialClergyman]

We're all keeping quiet so BM can get his re-read done.

Shhhh..

[SerialClergyman]

Seriously though, I'm bemoaning the lack of bunnywagon momentum.

[SerialClergyman]

Zzz not this again.

[SerialClergyman]

Well, you can't have role information that she's innocent because she's a miller, so your read is as good as anyones.

As for the 1-shot cop ability, we only have her word for that, it's not a confirming role and when everyone is a power ability, lynching someone else will only lose us a different ability.

[SerialClergyman]

Vp, why? You were all for a miller lynch all game?

[SerialClergyman]

Mmm.

Ok. 3 am here so I'm going to sleep on it. Remember if we don't lynch sb, we lose a different role. Instead, so it's not quite a simple a tradeoff as it would be otherwise.

[SerialClergyman]

If you feel SB is town who won't survive the night, you should be unvoting..

On the flip side of the hard bus day one, in emerald city mafia, which KK just finished, he claimed miller as scum and had another scum member try to bus him resulting in her being killed and he being a confirmed town miller for the entire game. It happens, and KK would absolutely know the plan.

Ok, no momentum for the bunny. (I don't like waiting a day when we're going to be hitting power role and I don't like pre-planning lynches, but whatever). I'll see where I can park my vote.

[SerialClergyman]

Benmage has already claimed his power sucks in an attempt to buy town points, so you should vote there SC.

Yeah - so has chamber, but I think I only want to vote him because I don't like his playstyle. Lets go Benmage then.

unvote, vote benmage

What's with the 'oh this game, this thread eats at my soul, I want to claw my eyes out, everyone is stoopid' posts? There's been about 5 different players making similar comments since the start of D2 and it's seriously irritating. My feet are getting wet from the puddle of tears. ><

Llama - I steal the role for the NEXT night. So N1 I touch blah, at the start of D2 I get told what the role I stole was (if any) and N2 I get to either use the role or touch someone else. They are blocked from using their ability N2.

There was another question about my role but I can't remember if I've answered it - I'm not sure if constantly talking about it now we've identified the Spyrex confusion is pro-town, really. I think I've already signed myself up for some deathing.

[SerialClergyman]

I think I answered above, but I am told specifically what the ability is (or that I haven't stolen an ability).

[SerialClergyman]

They are blocked from using their ability N2.

I don't know what the difference is between the options you're giving me. They can't use it for the one night I have it, does that answer it?

AFAIK there's nothing about steal vs copy and I don't know how you'd tell the difference.

[SerialClergyman]

a) He wasn't especially townish or not townish.
b) I was looking for a player likely to have an active role.
c) Confirming a good player as town is something I like.

chamber, what's the difference between a claim now and a claim later?

[SerialClergyman]

Wow that's a terribad post.

Both 1) and 2) are absolutely not true, and 2) especially is LESS LIKELY to be true as soon as you've said it.

[SerialClergyman]

1) We've spent tooooo mmuuuuucchhhh tiiiimmmeee debating SB's scumness, and we're not getting anywhere. If Tubby flips scum, then there is no debate whatsoever.

We have not spent a ridiculous amount of time on SB? We're not going to conclude anything new.

Tubby is the best lynch today.

We have spent a lot of time debating SB, what I objected to was the conclusion that if we lynch tubby we'll somehow know for sure the alignment of SB.

I don't want to spend time off on a tangent, but it's worth noting stark just last page said that if tubby = scum then SB =scum, and if SB isn't NKed, SB=scum. Both of those things aren't true and look bad to me in a vacuum.

[SerialClergyman]

@SC:

Say you touch someone, and copy their power.

If you really like it, can you just hang on to it for the rest of the game?

catching up on my phone, expect a couple of small posts. In answer to this, no. I either use it the next night or lose it.

[SerialClergyman]

I remember earlier in this thread a plucky, intelligent lad with classically handsome good looks and an air of competence suggested a massclaim, whichwould have been a freaking excellent idea but was cruelly shouted down by a chimp-like group of people who didn't have the smarts to follow his vision...

So totally into the massclaim.

Aside from that, even if sp is a scum roleblocked, what's the point in coming forward? Best case scenario is he's beliEved, plum is lynched and found to be town and his neck is in the noose before we've had a coffee tomorrow morning.

If tubby was fake claiming, why would he use anaccurate role name?

Plums claim here is the biggest stretch, but with zero motivation as scum to do that apart from a big gambit with tubby, I'm not keen on that theory either. I'm liking the benmage lynch more and more.

Vp baltar! I call you out to post more so I can make up my mind on you!

[SerialClergyman]

@SC-what do you mean more posts? I've been quite active this game. I went out last evening so couldn't be here for the four or so pages that were added, but I hope you aren't going to fault me for something like that.

Don't worry, I'm not having a go at you, I just don't have a read on your alignment yet, and I like you and you're a good player, so if you post more then I might be able to take a guess and be happier listening to you

As for massclaim - would have totally sorted out all the tubby + plum + SP nonsense, plus the inevitable nonsense that's likely to come from having so many roles... very tempting... I'll throw in a limerick... There once was a man called Serial...

[SerialClergyman]

...his avatar was cute
but discussion was moot
because the proof he was right was empirical?

I think I might have had a rhyming stretch there.

Benmage, would you like to revise your claim, or are you happy claiming VT?

[SerialClergyman]

Also - I gave you the limmerick when we didn't massclaim!! Dammit.

[SerialClergyman]

^^ +1 internet.

[SerialClergyman]

I'd be up for a stark lynch.

Just sayin'.

You guys have no sense of claiming wonderousness.

[SerialClergyman]

Well for one thing, tubby has to keep giving us results. This means sooner or later he'll slip up. I'm all for killing claimed roles, but this seems less worthwhile than say, killing SB who only has to give us one investigation.

Also, presumably whoever Plum is getting her reads off could claim, and clear her (hint massclaim ftw hint).

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry, my sisters wedding and site going down leaves me A little behind. Will catch up soon.

[SerialClergyman]

Oooh ooh! I'm killing people!!

I touched you, VP Baltar, right on your sneaky face.

I can't imagine it's a coincidence that both people I've touched have died of natural causes, so looks like I'm a killer of some kind. Although noone actually dies, they just get zombified or whatever. Either way, there's zero reason to suspect that in my role PM (just re-read it and there's nothing about zombifying the people you touch) and I'm definitely council-aligned, so do with the info what you will.

Does anyone have a role that might interract with the natural causes people?

[SerialClergyman]

CBF finding it.

I am the toucher. I can pick one player to touch, I get a message saying what ability I have stolen from them the next day. The next night, I can either use that ability or touch someone else. They are blocked from using their ability on that night.

In flavour terms, I'm a politician in the council who is caught up in the world of power and shady deals. I find the lockdown in the city irritating because i'm stuck with all the commoners and find the dark goma influencer to be pompous and full of himself.

Were you looking for anything else?

Speaking of which, you guys can all decide if you want me to say whether or not I got a power from VP and describe it first or if you want VP to describe it first.

[SerialClergyman]

The blocking means IF I had stolen something from SPyrex (I didn't, by the way) then he wouldn't be able to use his ability last night and I would be able to either use it or touch someone else.

And yes, they regain it. I 'borrow' their ability for the next night, if you like. If VP had an active ability (again, I'm not saying my result until the town decides whether they are more suspicious of VP or me) he could have used that ability last night and can't tonight.

The only reasons I have not to lynch me are twofold:

1) The WIFOM reasoning behind why would I even be bothering with all this claim stuff. I claimed straight away on D2 - unless you think my motivation was to lynch Spyrex for some dark, unknown reason or otherwise try to push a faskeclaim, I think that would have been pretty universally stupid as a SK or scum. Rarely do you see scum or nightkillers claiming those kills on D2 (or D3 if you want to look at it that way, but that's the only time I figured it was more than a coincidence).
2) Spyrex and Baltar aren't 'dead', their alignment hasn't been revealed, they can still talk. Now, it's a little weird, I grant you, but it's certainly not the same mechanic as scum or SK nightkills.

Aside from that, I can see how my lynch would be appealing

[SerialClergyman]

Is Spyrex actually dead? Is he officially tree-stumped? He hasn't posted today, has he?

Dear LLama -

I have the option of touching people at night and dammit if I wasn't going ot get my hands on that Baltar guy. He's sexy as.

-SC

[SerialClergyman]

The people that you think are scum, llama, are not the people I think are scum. I breadcrumbed that I was going to be looking to touch VP towards the end of D2 from memory.

I"m not convinced by your theory about the treestump, but it's possible. Remember also that there is NOTHING in my PM about this 'zombifying' people, and there was NO reason to think it was me who did that to Spyrex D2. This is as new to me as it is to anyone.

Also, treestumps generally lose their vote?

I don't know if there are any extra abilities with the role block part, the PM doesn't specifically talk about that much, more the whole grabbing role actions off of others. It only says that on the next night, the player I touched can't use their ability.

[SerialClergyman]

You didn't answer my question:

In my last post I gave you every single bit of information about the roleblock I have. I can't answer it any more thoroughly, I'm sorry.

[SerialClergyman]

SP vs SC?

But that's cool, no worries.

[SerialClergyman]

SP vs SC?

But that's cool, no worries.

Whoops. Mental block. It happens .


SC, I'm asking you. Sorry for the confusion.

LOL

Mental block continues...

[SerialClergyman]

Well, I've found nothing on a convincing tell. I'm very eager to get baltar to tell us what ability he has, if any, and I'll confirm. Might go some way towards advancing the town.

[SerialClergyman]

Can someone give me the tl:dr on milkshake?

If he was blocked N1, isn't that why his claimed ability didn't save Kise? Or are we suspicious for a different reason?

[SerialClergyman]

Vp, claim your ability while you are around.

Ok, so why not see if milk can heal kise tonight unroleblocked?

[SerialClergyman]

Yep, I'm getting there. So the evidence is pretty damning. It seems that unless milk was the target day 1, or there's some other reason why a sk kill didn't go through d1, milk is the sk.

Can we get confirmation from kise that he needs some form of healing?

I'm cool wih the lynch, just view an sk lynch as a mediocre result.

[SerialClergyman]

Rofl at tubby

[SerialClergyman]

I vote we out plums partner before lynching milk.

[SerialClergyman]

Why do you say I had no result n2? I don't think I or vp have claimed a result?

[SerialClergyman]

No worries. Your post was very helpful nonetheless. <3

[SerialClergyman]

You know what would have been awesome to do yesterday?

Massclaim :p

plum, if your partner isn't confirmed town, why the secrecy?

[SerialClergyman]

People are saying wacky things. If the argument is that milk was blocked d1 and not d2 and there was a kill on d2, that makes him much more likely to be an sk, yes?

[SerialClergyman]

The ONLY way I would want you to feed SC's fish would be if you have an active and he got it. Of course, I'd prefer if that went down like such:

VP: I have an active ability.
SC: Yes, you do. It is XXXX.
VP: Yes, that is it. Hooray!

Except that I'm a genuis who has already breadcrumbed the answer earlier in the day in a post.

The reason to out Plum's partner is if it becomes obvious that she's scum we need the partner outed. At the moment if the tubby/plum/everything else fiasco all comes down in a flaming pile of crap, we're at a loss on who her partner is. Plus outing her partner is hardly going to be a problem - they have two people, one outed and one secret and the outed one took the night action last night, apparantly.

I think people have trouble grasping the fact that WE ARE ALL POWER ROLES. All of this secrecy about your role is epically tired - the scum can only kill one person per day. You are not special. If you're a cop amongst 6 vanilla townies, claiming is a bad idea. If you're the colour green in a rainbow, you're just another frikken colour.

Look at the power roles claimed os far. Almost none of them are dead.

[SerialClergyman]

Vp, I didn't have to claim when I came in on day two. I didn't have to tell everyone who I touched and I didn't have to let everyone know that both people I've touched had this effect. There is nothing about my ability that suggests this result IN THE SLIGHTEST. We don't even know what effect it has. You're asking for more from me when it's patently obvious that I am giving you every bit of information at all.

Why did you ignore the part about breadcrumbing my result?

[SerialClergyman]

Also - if the zombies are linked to me in some fashion, that means my support of a spyrex lynch and claim to push it makes EVEN LESS sense.

[SerialClergyman]

Ebwop - my FORMER support of a spyrex lynch before his claim on d2.

[SerialClergyman]

Baltar I didn't have a town read on. I asked him to post more to try to improve my read and I just haven't felt the awesome towniness that I usually feel with VP town. Last time that happened he was scum, I was prepared to try to test the theory this time.

Spyrex I thought was likely to have an active ability and therefore someone I could easily investigate. I respect his play a lot and wanted to know his alignment because I know a confirmed town Spyrex would be a good guiding light.

[SerialClergyman]

Spy - just know I love you. Loving your posts.

And if Plum is town, which still makes sense, its a bit fat target.

Target in a sea of targets, everyone has a role, this is possibly one of them ost expendable because either can rolecop, still wifom for a blocker because it'd be a 50% chance and EVEN WHEN THE PARTNER WAS SECRET THEY STILL GOT PLUM TO DO IT and got blocked.

etc etc

And Baltar's theory is about as good as my ballroom dancing. (before you second guess that, I'm Australian.) I refer you back to the whole not having to claim/admit who I touhed/point out it's me zombifying/no concrete downsides yet.

[SerialClergyman]

Except that KK's name was 'The Scribe' which isn't exactly the Murdererer. Mind you, I like that you hated the -er theory so much that you gave an actual scum member not 1, not 2 but 3 -er's on their name.

I disagree with VP's pretty freaking towniness, and I think if you think a theory is 99.9% sure to be wrong it's probably not a good theory, but atl east i get your point, it's not totally illconcieved.

Do you think kmd's fakeclaim was a safeclaim? Might have to review it actually..

[SerialClergyman]

Love Spy's long post. If you sold 'kick down the door cards' that I could buy, Spy, I'd buy like 10. Then every time a game was stalling and I was sitting there rolling my eyes I could just use one and have you kick down the door, run up to every player in the game screaming, 'MAN OR MOUSE??? ARE YOU MAN OR MOUSE???' and kicking people who blink till they hurt.

Given the worrying nature of my ability, I'm wondering how to use it tonight. I'm prepared to a) not use it, b) use it on one of a few targets or c) use it on an agreed upon target. Possible people could be chamber or milk, given they both are dicey and both seem to have active abilities. tubby as well perhaps, but he could be hiding and therefore I'd miss.

As for my top 3 scumteam, if I was a vig I'd shoot half of the people in the game, but my top three at the moment are probably:

1. tubby
2. Sajin
3. stark

It's not particularly congruous with stark being so anti-tubby, but I think individually they're my top.

[SerialClergyman]

Or I could just zombify Papa Zito and we'd have a monter mash brains trust, which would be pretty awesome too.

[SerialClergyman]

Vaya coming forward coupled with his scumlist actually makes much sense to me. If you don't mind my asking, why didn't you do the role copping last night?

[SerialClergyman]

Don't get me wrong, I want everyone to give a list, and in some sense I agree with you, but I think you're confusing anti-town with scummy (or are full aware and just don't care about the difference.)

So, what do you do as scum when someone says "Posts lists or die asap."
You bluster. You buy time. You try to use the method to counteract the idea.

No - you post a list. Seriously, how hard is it in 20 people to find three? I think any scum worth their salt isn't going to get 'tripped up' by a question like that and feel the need to bluster or stall. In fact, the sort of people who don't comply in my experience tend to be either null read obstinates or townies who don't feel like they have to conform.

Now - you might want to lynch people who don't conform because they could be a liability, but don't dress it up as scumhunting when it's essentially policy lynching.

[SerialClergyman]

benmage, how have you missed all of this?

[SerialClergyman]

Ugh, I believe Sajin.

I'm also dubious about picking the guy with the most suspicion to vote. It seems to me that there's little accountability for any of the people on the wagon who voted because it was cool and everyone else was doing it.

If noone has any objections, I plan to touch milkshake tonight. I'm also open to another touch or not touching anyone, at the discretion of people I think are prob-town.

[SerialClergyman]

I like all of the talk about SC touching people. We're all friends here... But if I touch chamber, I get to change the weather, whereas if I touch milk and he's a SK I get to slay someone. I'm so into that.

And zombies = coolest club ever. We meet up on Wednesdays after work and practise dancing Thriller.

[SerialClergyman]

Pfft, I was arguing against touching you anyway. Mafia is serious business, you can't just hitch a ride with a passive ability because you want to show off to your friends.

[SerialClergyman]

Stark - you're more than welcome to, but it specifically says active in my role PM. Also, what result are you hoping to get? Whatever power I get, if Sajin is telling the truth, is likely to be vague and unrevelatory anyway.

Plus milkshake sounds like he'd make a better zombie, and that's totally high on the list.

SC- You never revealed (unless I missed it) what you got from VP Baltar. Want to share?

For what purpose?

[SerialClergyman]

Yeah, cos you're totally the most talkative person ever.

Apparantly VP is onto my cult and he's a member

[SerialClergyman]

Well, I'm open to other choices, I'm just not convinced Sajin is a good one. I'll ask the mod.

Regarding VP, at the begining of the day, you made it sound like the information you got from him was really kind of important. I was wondering why this took a backseat.

Even if this is true, what do you expect my announcing the result in thread would do?

The reason why it's important was because when I touched him, I thought him suspicious. I now have a result from his action, and I can get him to claim his action and see if it matches up. On the other hand, he could get ME to claim my result and see if THAT matches up.
I'd prefer him to go first, and I've breadcrumbed my result earlier today so that you'll know it's a result I've had since the start of the day and not one I made up to agree or disagree with his claim.

However, announcing my result in a vacuum only serves to give information to nefarious characters. We'd need to have a pre-arranged agreement on who should go first in order for one of us to semi-confirm the other is tellign the truth.

[SerialClergyman]

I implied no such thing. Surely you can see I'm not acting as if I have found confirmed scum or anything of the like.

I implied that I had info that could help confirm or deny VP's alignment. The way that that could happen is us comparing notes on what he things my result should be and what my result actually was.

[SerialClergyman]

That wasn't my breadcrumb, it was much more subtle. But again - why are you continuing to search for his role? What good is this doing for the town? Comparing results = possible benefit. Outing VP's role for no particular reason = definite disadvantage.

I can use the ability the next night.

[SerialClergyman]

Consider me a boy and touching him a yard. It's like he's bringing me to it.

[SerialClergyman]

..

no.

I'm saying if VP tells us whether he has an active role or not, and if he has an active role describes it, I can tell you whether he's telling the truth. He can do the same of me.

[SerialClergyman]

FFS, no. All you can do is confirm or deny ability, which is independent of alignment. Everyone has a power in this game. If you are town, you seriously need to rethink how you are playing this role. You're not a cop, you're a role thief. Target the scum and prevent them from using actions against the town. I repeat, that is the only pro-town way to play your role.

Rubbish.

If I target milkshake and I get the power to cure someone insane tomorrow - what does that suggest to you about his role?

Info about roles can confirm or deny claims, limit fakeclaims, catch scum in lies - it's much different to a belated roleblocker, and hopefully touching milkshake will show that.

[SerialClergyman]

FFS, no. All you can do is confirm or deny ability,

which is independent of alignment.

which can have either a negligible or massive consequence for alignment.

[SerialClergyman]

it's posts like these that really baffle me at the quality of some players here...Despite all the bullshit essentially answering Sajin I know I at the very least flat out answered it twice.

*stare*

Guess how many times I've answered this? Even in the last couple of pages when talking to stark?

Anyway - I got a message saying I had taken no ability from spyrex. That's why I claimed because he was claiming what seemed to be an active ability.
I haven't claimed my result from VP because there's been no reason to and I don't see why it would help anyone other than scum.

[SerialClergyman]

I love how you make conceding your snottily quoted point to me still my fault.

You're lucky you're a girl for the next few days or I wouldn't take it so well

[SerialClergyman]

I am, and I do. But it's also not irrelevent to alignment, it's a clue.

And I would imagine that usually if someone claims an active ability (like potion throwing) when I'd already learned they didn't have an active ability, that could well have significance towards alignment.

Unfortuantely in this case it didn't pan out, and I tend ot believe Spy's explanation for the contradiction (although we're yet to see an affect from him) but the point still stands I think.

[SerialClergyman]

VP, babycakes, I get what SC was TRYING to do (even though it was silly in most cases) and I really think he's town that's doing a bad job explainin' it.

I'd be offended if that wasn't an obvious ploy to not make VP feeling bad about ganging up on him

You don't believe Sajin, Spy? I do. Also - what's with the 'lets bandwagon the guy we suspect the most' strategy? Seems like a recipe to lose info from a lynch..

[SerialClergyman]

Also - now that about half of the town have claimed, it's not so much a massclaim as an AWESOMEclaim!

Who's up for an AWESOMECLAIM?

[SerialClergyman]

Nope.

I've been seriously calling for a massclaim since I entered the game.

[SerialClergyman]

But since I have been unsuccessful in that persuit, and people haven't been polite while explaining their point of view, I thought I'd borrow some American marketing techniques in an attempt to freshen up the image, garner new support and appeal to the masses.

(get it? appeal to the MASSes?)

[SerialClergyman]

Woot!

Sure you don't want to be initiated into the zombie brains trust?

[SerialClergyman]

vote dramonic

PZ gets 10 points for proving my town reads awesome.

(you realise if you're scum you will cause SC to look even more foolish than his blank eyes and furrowed brow already make him)

[SerialClergyman]

Since we already know PZ has a massive target painted on his bee-hind - what do we all think about a massclaim? All the kids are doing it these days, with their baggy pants and their music...

[SerialClergyman]

Use it on VP - he's so crazy he's against a massclaim!

[SerialClergyman]

x_x

qft

[SerialClergyman]

Very well played guys. I think Sajin did well to deal with his difficult role, and VP obviously played well. Given that that wasn't a fakeclaim that was handed to you (I assume) you've done fantastically well. When you claimed I thought I had gotten you wrong and had thrown the town into a buch of suspicion over nothing, it was only when you kept not dying and you had this supposed self protect (and you failed to protect one night that seemed to go completely unmentioned) that I started to re-suspect you.

I actually thought you and llama were almost certainly scum together, given he ahd defended you every time I pushed you and was among the harshest critics of my night action choices.

My breadcrumb only breadcrumbed you didn't have an active ability and was almost impossible to find, so apologies to Spyrex for making him hunt for nothing, but we really should have resolved that before I died, like I tried to a couple of times. Here's the crumb, first letters of part of the sentence spells 'no active'.

Well, I've found

n

othing

o

n

a

c

onvincing

t

ell.

I

'm

v

ery

e

ager to get baltar to tell us what ability he has, if any, and I'll confirm. Might go some way towards advancing the town.

I thought when Spyrex asked Llama if his ability was active it might start to dawn on the town, especially since Llama actually got it WRONG and had to correct himself, but again it got swept under the rug unfortunately.

Anyways, very well played all. I enjoyed the setup but it's not actually my favourite. It's nice to get a role for sure but also so confusing as to not feel like mafia at times. Still, I thought some of them ore unique roles were great and there was some really interesting ideas in the setup, so thanks for that CKD.

[SerialClergyman]

That's another thing, CKD - as if I touch the SK and don't get any reward for it

Was my role meant to be useful only in stealing town abilities?

[SerialClergyman]

When a doc fails to protect an obvious target - that's a massive red flag, I think. It was definitely hard to pull off a lynch on the two claims that fit so perfectly, so you can't blame anyone for not really getting it done, but that was kinda swept under the rug with VP standing there shrugging with a goofy smile on his face.