Battle Mafia: Game Over

[Vi]

Vote: Benmage

(L-13)

con mucho cariño

You should know why.

Oh, btw, Paint is being stupid, so Ben the Mage is encountering technical difficulties.
Sorry; it's the program's fault your robe is turning purple when the box clearly shows I'm trying to color it dark blue v.v

[Vi]

Any reasoning, Benmage?

[Vi]

Benmage, why GIEFF?

And about Ben the Mage.
The

GIEFF

GIF version is here. The first one is with the new color scheme. The second one is with the hair edit (you can see that the lighter gray is actually a shade of blue; thanks for nothing, Paint). The third one uses the previous color scheme.

For bonus footage, this is the same pic in PNG format, where you are in

fabulous

purple and pink hues. I warned you~

tubby, anything of worth to post?

SpyreX, the quote tubby is referring to is probably from the Book of Daniel (in the Bible).

Saying "politicians are scummy" was a joke (they really ARE scummy in real life, yuk yuk)

Hey, 10% of the politicians give the other 90% a slightly better name.

@DTMaster: What does DT stand for?

[Vi]

Vi, why is tubby asking you what to do?

tubby and me have an understanding. We know how to talk to each other. *secret gang signs go here*

@tubby: For now, I don't want you to coast, since you took the time to post a complaint.
Although why is everyone saying that this game is making their head hurt? Aside from the cybersex thing with Haylen and Nikanor; that makes

my

head hurt

[Vi]

Vote to Save: IH

(P-8)
'No reason not to.

[Vi]

If ckd's vote counts triple for saving people,

his new title should be Holy Trinity

that should be enough.

Otherwise we need one more.

[Vi]

EBWOP: Or not, never mind.

[Vi]

*links to tvtropes "What kind of power is Heart anyway"*

I agree with Shanba to a point, plus E-Badger's blabbering during the poisoning is worth further investigation.

Unvote: Benmage
Vote: ElectricBadger

(L-13)

I'll come back to you, Benmage.~

The aforementioned point is:

Going back to what IH said; how useful is it to have 6 or so people repeating the same point without even committing to a vote.

I'm... not quite sure how IH said that, outside agreeing with you.

[Vi]

you managed to imply I'm scummy and vote me without actually giving a specific reason,

I gave two.
*You were part of the "doggy-pile" on BloodCovenant (agreeing with Shanba here)
*You were running your mouth anxiously during the IH poisoning, which I would expect someone with more knowledge about it to do

disparaged a valid line of questioning (as one option would imply IH is town, and the near surety the poisoner wasn't town means speculation is unlikely to help scum),

Near surety?
Beyond that, if IH was poisoned by scum, who is this scum more likely to be?

proposed a line of questioning then immediately passed it off,

I'm presuming you mean that I called for an end to discussion with my vote?
I can see why you think that, but that's not the case.

and FINALLY managed to do so with an uncalled-for condescending tone.

It's the only tone I've got.

[Vi]

@ElectricBadger:
*Questioning suspicious activity is a good thing. But when everyone else is doing it as well, it just makes you look like a sycophant trying to score bonus points by being on the Cloud of Witnesses condemning whoever. Scum and bandwagons go together.
*More than the idle chatter about what was going on, the really bothersome line was "Or is this just part of the game...?", which is normally my last pick for theories explaining why people are randomly getting almost-killed. You seem to have dropped this from your arguments.
*IH was most likely poisoned by scum. The reasoning otherwise assumes wanton irresponsibility by either another player or the mod. I do not believe we can determine who did it just now. However, why IH was poisoned so quickly is a more interesting question - albeit one that for right now is just as unanswerable.
*Whether you realize it or not, I

am

investigating you. I know nothing of your meta or your skill level. I am gauging it by tossing a vote on you and seeing your reaction. If I can get a secure read from your reaction, I don't have to worry about you for a while - a boon in a game with so many people in it.

IMO you pass.

Unvote: ElectricBadger

Not that I expect you to believe me immediately, but that's your decision.

-----

@BloodCovenant: Use the Preview button and don't decatuple post (or whatever the word is), please. Aside from making it easier to see your thoughts and positions, it just makes it look less skimmable. At this point I sympathize with tubby's vote.

I think I'm going to go back to my original vote at this point.

Vote: Benmage

(L-13)
And to stave off GIEFF, no, it's not a random vote.

Is Yos2 playing this game?

[Vi]

*You were part of the "doggy-pile" on BloodCovenant (agreeing with Shanba here)

Just FTR, Shanba said:

Nice little doggypile there guys. If you've all finished showing what a good townie you are by condemning BloodCovenent, that would be great. I have strong suspicion that that is not what he meant, but I'll keep mum for now.

@both of you: What BC said was ambiguous in its meaning, and came on top of his strange response to my wifomery. As such, I can't see what is wrong, at this point in time, with a wagon on him. I would still be voting for him, had Haylen not amused me so.

What is the pragmatic difference between
*restating what five other people said about someone, and
*restating what five other people said about someone and then voting based on it?

In addition, vollkan, your input is entirely tangential to a discussion you weren't a part of in the first place. What was your motive in jumping in?

Would it be fair to succinctly summarize post 212 as:
*BloodCovenant is scummy until I say he says otherwise
*tubby's play is baffling me
?

[Vi]

What are you referring to here?

You

criticised his involvement in the "doggy-pile".

It's therefore not at all tangential for me to question whether your attacks on the wagon are valid.

Yes it is, actually, because you're completely missing the point of what

I clearly said I was doing

in favor of trumpeting your pet project.

Nothing I have said takes the view that BC is scummy "until I say he says otherwise".

That would be me reading this:

2. Said we shouldn't focus on what scum should or shouldn't do (I don't think this is scummy)

On BC, point 2): I am actually inclined to agree with you here (in terms of what I think is most likely), but he still hasn't clarified what he meant.

If I'm taking this out of context or otherwise misconstruing your words, please tell me, although tbh it's not that big of a deal to me.

[Vi]

Vi, why so "random stage" in 63? What do you think of GIEFF and BC?

I commented on what was pertinent to the game, and tossed a few jokey things out since it was early enough in the game.

GIEFF has promised me that he will be annoying and more-than-slightly scummy in every game regardless of his alignment, and up to this point I believe him. For now, no read.

BloodCovenant's comment deserves mention and an explanation, as others have said; however for the moment there are five people voting him and several others waiting to do so, so my input is not necessary until he does something more flagrantly scummy. I'm allergic to popular targets.
My take on what started this is that he took vollkan's OMGUS response to BloodCovenant's joke vote(?) as deadly serious and dug a hole for himself. (BC #7)
Some of the things BloodCovenant posted in his marathon wall are decent enough, some aren't. I particularly like BC #21.
Overall not enough information to make a secure read either way.

Vi keeps being so "random stage" in 118.

That's So Random!
There's nothing random about it; it was a statement of fact.

I dont like

1. BloodCovenent
13. Tubby216
18. Benmage
15. CuriousKarmaDog

Unvote Vote : Blood.

FOS: Tubby, Ben and CKD.

Saying the same thing twice for posturing purposes?

@randomlunatic 230: This is one of those times where I wish someone WOULD multipost. If that's all you have to say, something is amiss.

[Vi]

Four pages in one day is not cool.

@GIEFF:

Do not post statistics without conclusions

, or else they're meaningless. I really don't care how many characters someone has used in this thread unless it leads to a point. There are no bonus points for being impressive when you clutter the thread with useless statistics; the post count was sufficient.

Anyway, to me it's pretty clear that no one is actually bothering to work out what BloodCovenent was actually saying there, and (here's a hint) it's not that we shouldn't scumhunt.

...

Second,

[ElectricBadger's]

Vi vote is a lazy OMGUS.

...

The pressure on ElectricBadger by tajo and GIEFF is criminally bad. I'm hitting a brick wall as to whether tajo is scummy by intuition, though. I definitely want one or both of them dead by endgame.

SpyreX 255 reads fake too, but at least he's in the right about E-Badger.
Ditto Haylen 256 (and pretty much all of Haylen's other posts). Less fluff and taunting, more substance please.

I wish I had a better meta on Crazy, because that vote on BloodCovenant is etc.

randomlunatic is either a randomn00b or scum, basically. Haylen, IIRC you said you knew rl IRL? Your read, please.

Sheeping onto Mariyta wouldn't be a terrible option after 306, but I really want a wagon on Haylen, tajo, or GIEFF right now.

Unvote: Benmage
Vote: GIEFF

(L-11)

[Vi]

Umm...I dont know what IIRC means...

If I Remember Correctly

[Vi]

@GIEFF: Do not post statistics without conclusions, or else they're meaningless.

I disagree completely. The statistics are plenty meaningful without my own conclusions.

Right, I see lots of people who got more meaning out of that than cicero's post count.

Why did you ignore cicero's statistics? He didn't make any conclusions either.

Correct. However, I edited his chastisement out because he supplied conclusions in later posts.

Why did you ask Benmage (twice) why he was voting for me?

How often have you seen Benmage contribute ITT?
What was your goal in asking this question?

-----

Open question. Do you think that Yos2 would deliberately avoid this topic under virtually any normal circumstances?

[Vi]

The first part of 319 should have sarcasm tags affixed to both ends.

[Vi]

Haylen: So your read is
*rl is inexperienced scum
*rl could also be mental-blocked Town
*You don't know which, therefore no unique read
?

Also notice lack of @ sign altogether

-----

More information is always good for the town,

This statement, without significant qualifiers, is

false

.
The sooner you understand this, the better for everyone who shares a Mafia game with you.

The number of characters

says more

about activity and contribution than just the number of posts (especially for people like BC, tajo, and shanba).

...saying things like...

Don't you know it's rude to answer a question with a question?

Don't you know it's rude to fly around and buzz around other things that are going on?
*
tajo 233: OMG E-Badger is weakscum
GIEFF 234: I think so too!
E-Badger 235: lrn2read
tajo 240: ok sorta but still answer some stuff
GIEFF 247: you didn't answer my question but *leaves conversation*
*

There were many people who voted without any reasoning in the first two pages, and Benmage's vote for me looks completely random. Yet you picked it out of a crowd, questioned it twice, and are now voting for the same person - me.

So what I want to know is: were you questioning Benmage because it was me he was voting, or was there another reason you questioned his vote?

Yes,

GIEFF. There's a vast conspiracy that has been going on since Page 2 to get you out of the game. Or keep you in it. Whichever sinister plot you believe is revolving around you; I can't tell.

Exasperation aside, I have reasons for questioning Benmage that are about as forthcoming as your reasons for voting ckd.

[Vi]

I agree way-long wall-posts are bad for the town. But you will not convince me that information such as number of posts/characters and voting histories are bad for the town. Are you trying to get me to stop providing this information?

Yes.
I've already illustrated under which circumstances they would be helpful. You go out of your way to avoid them, so.

Conveniently, you decline to answer where I specifically ask you to explain the use of your

own bloody statistics.

And then EB did answer my question. What is your point?

The

point

is that you're carving an existence in piggybacking on others' attentions and antagonizing anything you can stick your hand into.

Don't you find EB scummy, too?

Please read me in isolation and ask again if you need further help. Thank you.

When will you reveal your reasons for questioning Benmage?

Once again. Please read

the post you're responding to

and ask again if you need further help. Thank you. For immediate assistance, please compare this timeframe:

I have reasons for questioning Benmage

that are about as forthcoming as your reasons for voting ckd.

On second thought, don't ask again. This hasn't been a good day and the next post I direct to you will probably include flaming.

Also Vi, what are your current thoughts on tubby? Thus far, you've asked him if he had anything of worth to post,

said you had an understanding with him

, told him not to coast, sympathized with his vote,

attacked tajo after FOSing him

,

and attacked me after making a case on him

.

I assume you think he's town?

I have no read either way on tubby.
Your summary, as far as it reveals my actual intentions with finding his alignment, is terribly misleading (see bolded).
It appears you wish to raise the spectre that I'm defending him, Vi+tubby vs. tajo+GIEFF. This is only the case in your mind.

-----

I agree with GiEFF not Vi. The character post was helpful.

*sweetly* How so?

[Vi]

I now see your response regarding your ckd vote. So sure, I'll play.
Benmage is transparent. By pressuring Benmage early, I hoped to get a read on him early as well. Him not being here has hurt that effort quite a bit.

You're trying to get me to stop posting information that can only be of benefit to the town.

Do you know what a "red herring" is?
I would also like to direct you to Adel-scum in Tofu Mafia for an excellent example of information not terribly unlike yours

stifling

the Town into apathetic mutual loathing in spite of being completely accurate and usable.

You're trying to get me to stop being aggressive.

That's not what I said. Try again.

You've read my points on tubby, and think they are null?

I can't say I read all of your posts. Let me give them a second look.
---

1. Scum care about getting pressured, more so than townies, as their win condition is basically lynch-avoidance (but townies' win-condition also includes finding scum). Thus, scum like to pretend they do not care as much about pressure. In response to my pressure on him, tubby claimed he didn't care what anyone thought, yet he obviously does care.

2. Going back and giving a false reason for the Spyrex-unvote also has a scum-rationale. Tubby-scum wants to look like a good townie, scumhunting and hating the RVS. And so when asked about his unvote, he saw an opportunity to fabricate some reasons that he thought would give him town-poinst, i.e. saying "OK fellas, I'm done with that random stuff, time to get down to business!"

The first one is stretching it a little, but they're both good points.
The follow-up is more or less on track as well.
The major factor in tubby's favor is AtE and, well, his meta.

No null read any more, but I'm not lining up to lynch tubby yet either. I need to read Xyl's Relative Chaos again.

[Vi]

by that he means he is checking my scum meta agianst this game since we played that one and i was scum there

too

,

Oops. Your thoughts, Vi?

I've never seen that happen before...
I guess that validates what I was thinking of about Xyl's Relative Chaos~

Unvote: GIEFF
Vote: tubby216

(L-6)

-----

That's not what I said. Try again.

Yes, Vi, by accusing me of being antagonistic, you are telling me to stop being aggressive. I've done nothing antagonistic like attack people personally, so when you call me antagonistic, the only thing I can think that you are referring to is me calling out play that I find scummy.

If not that, what were you referring to?

And why did you accuse me of piggybacking without even having read all my posts?

I think this is a good time to admit that I'm entirely in the wrong on this one.

-----

Vi: could you explain how post counts played out in that game so we could avoid it here?

Why

soitenly

.
Adel was the #1 poster in that game and played a hyper-aggressive game (fiercely trying to discredit SpyreX-obvTown), and provided numerous powerful scumhunting tools; including a namedrop analysis, a meta questionnaire, a color-coded vote analysis, and several linking theories. By either not ascribing conclusions to or not doing anything with the conclusions to any of them, they became less than worthless - they became a hindrance to the Town, who felt they were expected to make sense of the waterfall of spew being thrown at them at the rate of eight posts per page.

It's worth noting here that while the other two scum would have shown up on some of these analyses, it would have been amid numerous false positives.

-----

What reads fake about my 255?

The only thing you said in 255 that was worth posting was your read on ElectricBadger. Everything else was just awkwardly standing aboot and being about as irrelevant as you can get without saying literally nothing.

Your immediate attempt to chain lynches here is just about as bad.

-----

The stats weren't meaningless at all. They don't lead to a conclusion as to who is scum versus who is town, but they certainly provide an indication as to who is actually contributing and who is not.

...which one would think would provide an indication of who is more likely scum and who is not.
The only people who looked into this aspect were
*GIEFF
*Haylen (in a post that you, vollkan, rightfully took as scummy)

So etc.

-----

Also, you asked the mod to prod yourself?

Exactly.

Okay, this cybersex joke is going a bit far.

[Vi]

Again, apologies. I actually suck.

I'm sure there's an unnecessary joke to go with this, but I can't think of it offhand.

I had a couple of scenarios running about what happened with the vollkan/tubby deaths. Unfortunately, after Haylen's death none of them make sense.

Reflecting on tubby's apparentnotslip, I sorta guess I can see what tubby was trying to say, but I wouldn't fault anyone for thinking it was a slip. I'm sure there were scum on the wagon, but because the wagon was uncontested I don't know how to pick them off.

My best guess on how to proceed is...

Vote: SpyreX

(L-11)
Reasons a few pages ago.

[Vi]

cicero, care to contribute with something more directly related to finding scum?

[Vi]

cicero, care to contribute with something more directly related to finding scum?

Well, I WAS thinking of imperiously attacking people for posting good information that encouraged contribution, coupled with antagonistically attacking people for being antagonising. But that shtick had been taken so it's back to the drawing board for me.

For what you were trying to do, that was clever.
For helping with determining your alignment... actually, it may have been good for that too.
I like my SpyreX vote better right now, though.

----

A few pages ago, you said you really wanted a wagon on me or tajo. Why has Spyrex passed up tajo since then?

I'm willing to believe tajo's attack on ElectricBadger was based in a misunderstanding.
Combined with the fact that I've been in a hateful mood recently, I think I can pass on that line of argument entirely.

I can't believe tubby was town. That's just insane. I thought this game was over, we busted tubby easy, and we got a lot of buddying wishy-washy half-defense stuff like "well yeah he's scummy, but we shouldn't lynch him" which I assumed would catch even more scum.

Go ahead and give names; I don't mind.
So what's your read on me, now that I'm evidently not tubby's scumpartner?

If you are town, STOP KILLING PEOPLE! I don't think that two daykills and one daykill-attempt can all be from scum.

And... how many of those DO you think were from Town?

[Vi]

Gieff - Mafia Neighbour, Venge-Stabbed, Day 1

...wow. In the last 24 hours I think I've been owned in six unique and exciting ways. Well, I needed the humility pill anyway.

The game had 23 members, a

plurarility

of which are sitting around making a noise that rhymes with clap, clap, clap - either through not posting at all or voting for people with a reason called "I'll tell you later" and you are going to single me out for not scum hunting?

@the bolded: Um... what?

I have not gone into rabid Cicero mode - yet - but I have hardly been unwilling to ask questions and voice opinions and, as I usually do on day one, try to shake up the lurkers.

And I can't wait.

Hey Shanba, the vote count was reset. You don't have a randomlunatic vote any more.
Incidentally, why do you believe I'm about to become a wagon?

Those that do not vote Maryita in their next post will stand to face the same fate as EB. I'm not explaining, so do not ask.

They'll get old, fat and cynical?

The fact that charter tried to use something that he (theoretically) didn't have any control over to convince people to do something makes me further .
I confess to thinking the same thing as randomlunatic about charter, which tbh makes SpyreX's slamvote on rl look worse to me.

What chain lynches are you talking about? The exchange between you and gieff regarding tubby was interesting. And gieff was scum. Fancy that.

Please don't waste everyone's time. If you're going to waft suspicion in my general direction, go ahead and vote me.

Your attempt to chain lynches as you are now is at least consistent with your previous comment.

Although this latest tryst of GIEFF-Vi-Tubby is pretty killer.

Although, that really pales to I think my first honest to god scumslip:

Unvote, Vote Tubby

So I'm between actual scum and honorary scum that you were running up right then for a slip. 'Doesn't seem like I win either way, ne?
This would have ended after tubby's defenestration, but - bonus! - GIEFF flipped scum, so I can be your

bodyguard, and you can be my long lost pal

punching bag all over again.

[Vi]

EBWOP: Okay, it's not "chaining lynches" from GIEFF and possibly tubby if you want to get technical about it. "chaining deaths" will do, I guess.

[Vi]

...

I am confused.

Gieff flipping scum and tubby flipping neighbor makes me all but convinced YOU are town Vi.

I'm not sure what you read into what I said?

The exchange between you and gieff regarding tubby was interesting. And gieff was scum. Fancy that.

I don't see how I was supposed to get that you were convinced that I was Town out of this.

[Vi]

I wouldn't say that the people who didn't trust you are necessarily scum, but I'm willing to go along with the wagon (>")>

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: Mariyta

(L-10)

[Vi]

Sadly, there's no way for me to refute the claim that I did.

There is one way, actually.

On a related note, charter, I would like for you to fullclaim.

[Vi]

Sadly, there's no way for me to refute the claim that I did.

There is one way, actually.

Yeah, I meant aside from dying...

Not what I meant.

That is L-5. I would like for charter to fullclaim prior to a Mariyta lynch.

[Vi]

Your call.

I wanted to see if the possibility was open that both of you could be Town. Since I can't evaluate that as things are now, I'm not inclined to consider it.

[Vi]

ckd, do you have any objections to the Mariyta-charter business?

[Vi]

From this point onward in my career I should never second-guess myself <_< This is embarrassing.

Judging from E-Badger's flip I think it's a safe assumption that charter is either Town or the creepiest Usurper role known to humankind (note: this is a joke), and if Mariyta flips Mafia Poisoner I'll follow him anywhere.

To the people voting me: Switch your vote to Mariyta, if she doesn't flip scum, you can lynch me. You're not going to lynch me first, so stop trying.

I agree with this.
From what I know of charter, we can stop with the whole "reasoning" business now; we know everything he's going to tell us, and he's told us plenty.

ckd raises an interesting point in 521, but frankly I don't know how we're going to get a solid answer to that without lynching Mariyta.

Why are so many people absent in this game?

[Vi]

You're not really present. Why are you so worried?

I'm not. I'm being difficult for the hell of it.

8/10

Bonus points for the attitude matching your avatar.

[Vi]

Next you lynch cicero for doing the same thing and then lynch Nikanor.

This actually sounds like good advice.

Vote: Nikanor

(L-8)

I'm too wrapped up in a TV-induced ADD to think much right now, but I think I'd prefer Nikanor over DTMaster based on a quick read through the twos' most recent posts.

[Vi]

Also, ckd's triplevote doesn't seem to apply any more.

[Vi]

You're taking advice from DTMaster, Vi? Why?

The quote was more for comic relief and irony, two things I've been quite adept with in this game.

[Vi]

As for Nikanor, this post stood out, along with this post.
There's very little good to say about either of them.

Contrast

@EB Death
Interesting and shows carter has a good nose for this. Time for a reread.

@Kariyuu
o-o... Why would Seraphim withhold that information? And I never heard of someone dying if they are investigated. Sounds fishy... but I'll make note of that. (Also don't answer the first question, it was rhetorical and me speaking/typing outloud)

@BC
Vote the mod to experiment on since I know in Tar's game he's sometimes a player.

@Mariyaa
Scum confession? It's mainly a strike against scum lately.

all of this, which looks very much like filler. Then there's this--

I'm also throwing the idea there are multiple scum factions out there. I have no confirmation of this based on Gieff's death since we could have SKs running around. Based on the huge amount of deaths on day 1, we can only confirm multiple killing roles or a person with multiple ways of killing people.

Given a game this size it's not unlikely to have multiple scum roles in play. Do you have something to suggest we are only dealing with 1 faction here?

--which looks like fishing around and obvious ignorance of unflavored Mafia.

And this

@RL
Neighbor within the same group which might mean all the mafia members do not know each other or do not have means to communicate with each other. This would suggest a large scum team with some uninformed members. But at this moment it's speculation.

--which could be taken as a "shout-out" that is, indeed, pointless speculation that has a very slim chance of helping anyone except scum who don't know who each other are.

Then there's this--

[url="http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Scum"] Wiki link here. [\quote]

--which isn't scummy at all but a reminder that we have Wiki tags.

So don't get the wrong impression, you're both extremely lynchable today. But I get a slightly more honest sense out of your posts. Only slightly, though, as I'm seeing a line between the second and third quotes where you seem very interested in the concept of scum who don't know each other.

[Vi]

@Vi
The reasoning is the concept of scum neighbor baffles me. On my completed list I played 1 newbie game and 1 mini normal, so the whole concept of the role seems too redundant to have. In these games (look at my wiki) they were scum teams of two players with the auto ability to night talk. If the same applies here, why have a scum neighbor role. :s

Neighbor is the same thing as an unconfirmed Mason.
In other words, GIEFF presumably had the ability to talk to people in his Neighborhood (Haylen and tubby) and separately the ability to talk to his scumpartners.

-Usually- scum Neighbors will not respond to each other in their private communications and will kill their Neighbors at the first available opportunity, as it is considerably easier to catch scum in a one-on-one outside communication than in the full group setting.

I appreciate the partial defense, but its a biased view based on AtE stance alone. An "honest feel" means "gut feeling" which means nothing at all. :p Kinda like my "gut feeling on tubby" with the whole meta defense.

I am a sucker for AtEs. But to say that intuition means nothing is rather incorrect.
On that note, are you asking to be quicklynched?

2. I claimed VT hence

it

s an easy choice. VTs are sacrificial lambs who try and be useful in thread but end up getting butchered to the mob. Also they act like scapegoats for scum as meat shields. But they have the best power which is talking in the thread. :p

All of these except for the first and the last sentences are false or misguided at least. Please elaborate what "it" is in the first sentence.

----

Holy shit. This is bar none the absolute biggest implosion in the history of mafia.

I need to show you a certain Newbie game...
Actually, I should probably deny that game ever existed.

----

Hi Cass, nice to see you back! I'm still wondering what happened to soulmonarch though...

----

@Vi, why does the triple vote no longer count?

Notice how many votes it takes to lynch. It only works if the triplevote was taken out.
Why are you voting for DTMaster?

[Vi]

@r-lunatic:

So don't get the wrong impression, you're both extremely lynchable today. But I get a slightly more honest sense out of your posts. Only slightly, though, as I'm seeing a line between the second and third quotes where you seem very interested in the concept of scum who don't know each other.

Read, please.

Nikanor strikes me for saying some suspiciously one-dimensional things inthread, for instance--

A lyncher is the

only

explaination for your question.
His Appeal to Fear also fits this conclusion.

@Everyone: If you are a townie who poisoned IH, please claim now.

In retrospect, the idea of a Town Poisoner who didn't have the sense to claim immediately and didn't have enough sense to wait for a decent target... makes little sense.

@charter: You think I'm scum because I don't automatically believe the claim of someone I find scummy? You have refused to answer or have ignored most of my questions. You have threatened players of whose alignment you supposedly had no knowledge. I have no reason to believe you, as I find you nothing but scummy.

While these are all things that charter did, this ignores that there were a lot of people at the time - myself included - who really had no problem with all of that. Nikanor didn't question any of them.

Post 542, however, does make a good point. And I see there is no point in pushing a charter lynch today. If anyone puts Mariyta at L-1, I'll hammer. Otherwise, I'll just sit and wait for CKD to hammer.

And this is a complete 180 considering 542 was one of charter's posts. If the wagon is inevitable, why wait to vote/hammer? Why express opposition in one sentence and then support in the next?

[craplogic]Then there's how Mariyta claimed to have Distorted Nikanor just before charter got his message.
Mariyta said she never lied. Just for kicks, I'm tempted to believe her and suggest that Nikanor did it.[/craplogic]

----

@Vi, I'm voting DTMaster becuase I find his claim bizzare, the timing especially. He wasn't really singled out for any pressure, there was no call for a claim, it really confuses me why he did it.

But does that make him more likely to be scum?

[Vi]

Nikanor strikes me for saying some suspiciously one-dimensional things inthread, for instance--

A lyncher is the

only

explaination for your question.
His Appeal to Fear also fits this conclusion.

You bolded the wrong thing. I'll fix it for you:

Why the heck would charter say he knew Mariyta was scum if he was lying?

A lyncher is the only explaination

for your question

.
His Appeal to Fear also fits this conclusion.

Stop misrepresenting what I said, please.

I acknowledge that I misrepresented here. (not intentionally)
With that said, may I ask why you thought charter was a Lyncher, and not whatever he was?

In retrospect, the idea of a Town Poisoner who didn't have the sense to claim immediately and didn't have enough sense to wait for a decent target... makes little sense.

It's day two with eight people dead. It has been proven through Mariyta's flip that charter was (at least) incorrect, unless the distorter has a poisoning ability. DTM has come out at the start of day two with a claim and a self-vote.
Don't tell me you are still thinking this game makes sense?

I do. The people in this game don't make sense.

While these are all things that charter did, this ignores that there were a lot of people at the time - myself included - who really had no problem with all of that. Nikanor didn't question any of them.

Just because everyone else took charter's claim unquestioningly doesn't mean I have to do the same. Just because you disagree with me about something looking scummy doesn't mean you yourself are scummy.

You don't have to find someone scummy to question them, Nikanor.
On that note, I'm looking forward to your next post.

And this is a complete 180 considering 542 was one of charter's posts. If the wagon is inevitable, why wait to vote/hammer? Why express opposition in one sentence and then support in the next?

I meant that I would rather have my vote on charter than on Mariyta, but that I would hammer and end the day if required.

What's the point of that, pragmatically speaking?

[craplogic]Then there's how Mariyta claimed to have Distorted Nikanor just before charter got his message.
Mariyta said she never lied. Just for kicks, I'm tempted to believe her and suggest that Nikanor did it.[/craplogic]

Craplogic is a correct term for it.
a) Mariyta claimed to have distorted CKD just before charter got his message, not Nikanor.
b) If you are inclined to believe both Mariyta and charter's claims, your second point about me being the culprit is impossible, since Mariyta claimed her distortion two days after the poisoning.

Noted that I am bad at history and should apologize here.

----

Charter - Paranoid Cop, Shot, Day 2

...Wait, now it all makes sense!
Paranoid wasn't necessarily his sanity, it was a post restriction!

Crazy, why did you immediately jump off SpyreX after charter's death? I'm still trying to find out why people are in such a hurry to discredit charter. How does a nonrandom Cop get a "fluke" investigation? See Yos2 637.

Intuition is helpful, but I personally see that you need more then that to convince the town. That is where evidence comes in. (etc.)

When did I become your agent? I'm not here to defend you.

Unvote: Nikanor
Vote: SpyreX

(L-4)

[Vi]

I agree with the wagon but there is something that is bugging me intensively. Why are people exactly prefering Spyrex over obvscum DTMaster?

Based on a guilty result of a paranoid cop? Where did Occam razor go?

I just realized that I've been thinking of "Insane" when I'm reading "Paranoid". In that case, see below.

I think the most likely explanation is a sk/other scumgroup that didnt think things very well and rushed the kill. I dont see Spyrex or Spyrex scumbuddies (if he has them) killing charter, who would flip cop, to painfully prove that Spyrex was indeed scum and accelerate the process. What was the benefit here?

Giving scumpartners a chance to try to fudge out of it before another lynch occurred?

i doubt

[that "paranoid" was a post restriction"]

but please explain.

'Ever wonder why charter so fervently believed things that he didn't have any information about and why he refused to claim so often?
I think that was a deliberate act. Which implies that charter knew that his role title was "Paranoid Cop"... which implies that unless BM decided to deliberately give someone an Idiot Townie role (investigate someone as long as you will stay convinced that that person is scum OMG *mod note: lol, paranoid investigation*), Paranoid reflects his post restriction and not his sanity.

Interestingly this behavior still fit charter's meta very well

Also Vi, any comments on my post where I theorize about you being in a group with gieff, maryita and badger?

You're both wrong and reaching. Which kind of summarizes how I feel about your play throughout and how you're pushing this wagon off SpyreX.

----

@SpyreX's claim: I'm not sure how much of that to buy considering you're trying to justify the quality of your alleged investigations based on a "better" bonus coming out of it (Hider and Watcher are both strong). In addition, I can see how that could be a Mafia power (sort of a Role Cop in reverse - actually, I really like that idea *steals*).

Re: Wagon analysis - I think I've mentioned Crazy 622 before; it looks terrible.
Could you explain why that post makes tajo Town?
I'm not sure where Yos2's first argument falls apart - somewhere around your 3). Could you explain that again?
I disagree that killing charter would have been a death wish for scum and/or you. They couldn't do it any other time once he became a demonstrated information role and therefore warranted protection. Killing charter was effectively scum's only recourse.
I have no idea how Crazy wound up on your Town list, but I'd like to know.
How does DTMaster's jump on the SpyreX wagon ring scum? He's asking so nicely to be quicklynched if he's wrong~

Killing him would have in all scenarios but this one

guaranteed

my death. That makes no sense.

How not so?

so Spy are you saying you used your ability AND hid last night? you targetted two people last night? who did you hide behind?

This. As long as you're claiming, we may as well Hide-confirm someone.

[Vi]

DTMaster, what do you know about this cult?

Very Scummy Townie now ranks as one of my favorite Miller claims.

[Vi]

Vi, so do you think charter is more likely a cop with a paranoid post restricion than a paranoid cop? Do you think his vote for tubby, that obviously was not a result, makes sense in that post restricted scenario.

Yes, obviously. Why not assume the worst?

Any explanation of why after suspecting badger you become his top defender and start attacking me and GIEFF?

I voted for reactions, and mistakenly passed him as reacting as I would expect a Townie to.
I almost went after you/GIEFF for attacking E-Badger for bad reasons directly related to my vote, but as I read again I saw that I was probably more overreacting than anything. I still thought something was wrong, though, and I narrowed it down to GIEFF tagging along after you.

Reading through my posts, I don't see myself defending E-Badger much at all outside this statement--

The pressure on ElectricBadger by tajo and GIEFF is criminally bad. I'm hitting a brick wall as to whether tajo is scummy by intuition, though. I definitely want one or both of them dead by endgame.

--which again reinforces the above thought process.

What are your thoughts of chainsaw defense?

Never used it, never seen it. The only experience I have is with scum lurking, ignoring people, or bussing. The one time I tried something buddying/defending, the partner in question got replaced by Gimbo and summarily lynched.
Nonetheless, this is an extension of your overstatement of my defense of E-Badger.

Any explanation of why you preferred GIEFF over me when we both attacked Badger?

See above.

Any explanation of why you asked benmage twice for why he voted GIEFF?

I explained this a long time ago.

Benmage is transparent. By pressuring Benmage early, I hoped to get a read on him early as well. Him not being here has hurt that effort quite a bit.

And why do you think scum left him to do one investigation more. Pretty interesting timing, dont you think?

I wouldn't rule out kills that can only occur after so much time or so many posts.
Even so, now you're getting into the scum knowing that charter was presumed Paranoid.

Please order the possibilities on what happened with charter kill. We are going to assume Spyrex is scum here.

1. Spyrex killed him and sealed his fate with it.

2. Someone other than Spyrex killed him and sealed Spyrex fate with it. Too bad charter was paranoid.

I'm not sure immediately. Let me ask this - what would SpyreX-scum do (WWSD?) upon facing a Guilty result from charter-Cop? (other than kill charter, obviously)

My problem is that people are using a guilty result of a paranoid cop to vote him. How the fuck does that make sense?

I've explained myself more than clearly on the subject.

Thoughts of DTMaster, also, please.

I find him quite amusing tbh
As for his alignment, he's obviously betting his life on SpyreX-scum, and if he is Mafia and SpyreX is not I don't expect him to try a gambit like that. Meanwhile now that he has lost his vote with dubious timing, as long as he doesn't see endgame I'm fine.

[Vi]

1) Am I the only one here that thinks charter was indeed a paranoid cop and not some crap about postrestricted cop or cop with another approach?
2) How do you explain his result on Spyrex?
3) Did he catch him poisoning someone?
4) How do you explain Maryita flipping distorter (possible roleblocker) and not poisoner, and she defending against she wasnt the one poisoning IH but not defending she wasnt scum?

5) Its pretty obvious that charter didnt catch people poisoning so he made up that to pressure Maryita and to not be so obvious cop.

6) Its not about assuming the worst scenario. Its about assuming the most likely scenario.
7) Charter is a paranoid cop that got both guilty results. A guilty result on Spyrex prob doesnt mean anything more than a paranoid result. That shouldnt be a valid reason to suspect Spyrex.

8) People voting Spyrex. Is the guilty result the only reason why you are willing to lynch Spyrex?

1) It looks like I'm the only person who believes that, actually. You may be thinking that because there are only four people posting and ten not.
2) Cop investigation.
3) No.
4) See 5).
5) Correct.
6) You're misreading what I said, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
7) I disagree with the addition of "paranoid" to the first sentence; all further statements do not interest me.
8) Mostly. The claim's iffy though.

KairU is red for anti-Town; that shouldn't be as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

SpyreX, did you breadcrumb your role at all?

And this being a bm game, I still think not all things should be taken at face value. *words words words*

Says the person immediately dismissing charter as paranoid.

I might also point you to Rocissi Mafia where Caboose claimed cop and survived 4 days after giving two guilty results on the other family group. I was tne only one that suspected him while the rest thought he was confirmed town.

I survived until Night 7 as a (real) Cop who claimed Day 4 in HAtPF. What's your point, that one instance in a game that specifically featured modular Role PMs so as to facilitate unusual role/alignment combinations should dictate policy in all future games?

[Vi]

Yos2, why DTMaster?
Could you answer SpyreX's objection here?

3.) Yos starts out with this paranoid != paranoid AND cop != cop (implying that his role was something else entirely). Then, from his assumption (and my action) it is said that charter "did" me during the day. However, since nothing has happened AND based on his logic charter isn't actually a cop what could he have seen?

-----

@SpyreX: I agree that you were most likely not targeted at Night.

Sans the fact I'm not scum it still doesn't add up. If charter thought he was a cop day 1 with a guilty in this bizarro setup playing it like some kind of poison-tracker makes sense because it makes his role appear to be less than it is.

I don't see where it's not adding up. Say it a little more slowly?

1.) Why? After seeing a paranoid flip it makes more sense to me to assume that it was a lucky shot and the scum was telling the truth than paranoid != paranoid.

Why not all three of the above?

@4. Let me explain it like this. Since charter was likely under... well, maybe not Doc protection, but probably some kind of alteration overnight, there was no choice but to kill charter during the Day.
Why charter was given enough time to get another result is anyone's guess; however, one can observe that he was breathing rather well until his turnabout onto you.

5.) See 1. I can get into it in more detail but I'm gettin serious town-vibes off him.

Please.

6.) The guy who was all but busted day 1, starts out day 2 with a self-vote and a case on himself then goes "well, if they lynch him they're not lynching me today" and votes? Yea. Scum. Survival.

Now that he doesn't have a vote, I'm liking this line of thought more.

[Vi]

You know who I really want to see ITT? Benmage.

[Vi]

And then, of course, DTmaster claimed vanilla for no reason, which pretty much means he needs to die today.

In the context of you thinking he's scum, or in general?

There might be

one

cult recruit, but if there is he's basically a survivor and wouldn't actually care who gets lynched right now.

Yosarian,

two

. And they would have a vested interest in staying together.

I don't get why you singled me out though.

Because you lost your vote at the same time the cult recruiter flipped.

There may be other explanations, which I'm currently trying to work out. To that end it would be nice if more than four people were posting ITT.

@mod: Prod Alkaline and IH, please.

[Vi]

1- Killer is scum with Spyrex-scum. He assumed Charter was sane investigator, Spyrex was lost either way, so he'd better day-kill before more investigations could occur. And odds were that Charter would flip some weird role name that would sow doubts.

Cass "gets it".
Also, I guess only IH needs to be prodded since Cass

is

Alkaline :v

I am not saying I get "better" powers if I target scum. Ultimately, "better" powers is just conjecture based on the fact I got a power already when I was "wrong" about my guess.

Except Hider is pretty awesome on its own, so I'm having some difficulty swallowing this hypothesis.

Crazy, do you believe that DTMaster and SpyreX are the only people that are going to be lynched today? Do you think that both lynches are of equal value?

I actually think DTMaster's plan isn't that bad tbh - if we're not lynching SpyreX.
SpyreX ignoring it entirely and spreading the vagueness about his Role PM makes me disinclined to move my vote.

[Vi]

I'm still shaking my head at the "Yea, as scum he killed the cop hoping he'd flip cop to lynch himself."

Read Cass's quote from my previous post. Try again.

I really don't buy this claim, considering neither of your received abilities are confirmable, your claim doesn't even make sense to you,

and

you're inviting yourself to be roleblocked.

[Vi]

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

[Vi]

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

It's more that SpyreX being scum makes DTM less likely to be scum.

How so?

I'd be surprised if either one was town. They're probably both scum.

So no matter which wagon everyone decides to support, you'll vote with it? That's pretty dubious.

[Vi]

ZazieR, get in here.

[Vi]

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

It's more that SpyreX being scum makes DTM less likely to be scum.

How so?

I'd be surprised if either one was town. They're probably both scum.

So no matter which wagon everyone decides to support, you'll vote with it? That's pretty dubious.

[Vi]

Benmage, do you like your vote where it is?

[Vi]

I'd still like to see them both die today, if any dayvigs are willing to make that happen, but I'm now more convinced that SpyreX is scum. DT is still PROBABLY scum, and defiantly someone we can do without no matter what now that he dosn't even have a vote, but there's a chance he's town

Is this a dagger which I see before me

The handle toward Yos2's hand? Come, let thou answer me;
I have thee not, and yet I have thee still.

[Vi]

The handle toward Yos2's hand? Come, let thou answer me;
I have thee not, and yet I have thee still.

How understand we that?

Cliff's Notes: By the post I quoted I assume you find Yos2 suspicious as well?
Just because you have a post restriction doesn't mean you get a free pass if you're around to post.

[Vi]

Forsooth, render thy presence upon the SpyreX wagon,
Whereupon we shall lynch scum.

[Vi]

Yea, his claim stinketh,
And of they who were opposed to charter, DTMaster seems most genuine.
Lo, DTMaster has already been rendered voteless and is only a threat if he is a Serial Killer or the last Mafioso, both possibilities I can scarce believe at this hour.

I also believe charter, though it has been said that my eyes art as glassed as the rays of the moon for such thoughts.

[Vi]

Well if you say so (>")>

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: DTMaster

(L-2)

[Vi]

So no matter which wagon everyone decides to support, you'll vote with it?

That's pretty dubious.

This doesn't connote suspicion at all?

[Vi]

I see Nikanor, and not in this topic. Which... really doesn't surprise me at all.

[Vi]

So no matter which wagon everyone decides to support, you'll vote with it?

That's pretty dubious.

This doesn't connote suspicion at all?

So, you really think it's scummy that I said I like both the SpyreX wagon or the DT wagon?

Haven't you just voted for both of them yourself within just a few days?

I'm only now voting for DTMaster. Until then, I've been pretty steady in saying he's Town, thank you.
Meanwhile, I see you and Crazy going back and forth between the two like it's going out of style.

@VI: hyporitical of you to throw suspicion on Yos for supporting both wagons. Seeing as you (and myself I'll add) are doing the same.

See previous comment.
Also, you get a welcome-back super-special bonus gift--

VI

Daykill: Cass

-----

U. Vote Count

DTMaster (5) - SpyreX, randomlunatic, populartajo, Benmage, Vi
SpyreX (5) - BloodCovenant, Cass, Crazy, Yosarian2, Nikanor

Not Voting: ZazieR, IH, curiouskarmadog,

DTMaster

13 votes -> 7 to lynch

[Vi]

EBWOP: The two of you

voting

back and forth, etc.

[Vi]

There was no daykill. But there should have been for Cass getting my name wrong

@Crazy: Somewhat. This was the motivation behind

Crazy, do you believe that DTMaster and SpyreX are the only people that are going to be lynched today? Do you think that both lynches are of equal value?

Crazy, when did DTMaster become "freaked Town" IYO?

Along these lines, what do you think of Benmage's... Benmageing in DTMaster's direction?

[Vi]

You know who else isn't in this game? BloodCovenant.

Or you could test your sanity by using Billy Mays on BM, since everyone knows that BM's initials actually stand for Billy Mays, not Battle Mage, like he would have you believe.

So

that's

how we all bought into playing this game...

[Vi]

Actually, I'm curious.
Benmage, is your PR strictly Shakespearean? (Yea/Nay)

[Vi]

Your ISO 6 isn't really Shakesperian? :S

But that's getting really picky at things.

Actually, this is why I asked in the first place.

[Vi]

Crazy, what do you think about Benmage?

[Vi]

@Vi

- Do you have something specific you want me to comment on regarding Benmage? Apparantly I'm not good at reading post restrictions.

Not any more.

I'm really torn on this lynch.
SpyreX's claim is bad in at least two different directions, but at the same time if he's telling the truth there's quite a bit more to gain from lynching DTMaster now even if they're both Town.

Why are people lurking through this game?

[Vi]

*hypocritically flop-flips*

Unvote: DTMaster
Vote: SpyreX

(L-2)

Explanation in previous post.

[Vi]

Sure I'll bite Vi:

No vampirism, please.

Your claim makes no sense in the first place and is in no way confirmable. Both of these are traits I would expect from a scumclaim. In addition, I still think charter's result on you is valid.

[Vi]

Yes all the way down.

@Benmage: Explain thineself and thy last comment.

[Vi]

U. Vote Count

SpyreX (L-1) ~ BloodCovenant, Crazy, Yosarian2, Nikanor, Vi, curiouskarmadog
DTMaster (L-2) ~ SpyreX, randomlunatic, populartajo, Benmage, Cass
forbiddanlight (L-5) ~ DTMaster
Otherwise being useless ~ ZazieR, IH (note: this list of useless people is based on people not voting and is not all-inclusive)

[Vi]

so
spyrex

by your own logic your investigation would confirm that dtmaster is either vanilla or mafia (possibly both)
and he claimed vanilla before you claimed at all

so
why are you confident enough in him being scum that you're forcing this into you vs. him

also dont just call people awesome, give names

[Vi]

I'm at l-1 with the other major wagon not voting for me. I don't have time to even begin with that dissection.

The other major wagon doesn't have a vote to vote you with, and was voting you at the time said vote was taken away, so etc.

Repeating request for names.

[Vi]

Oh okay

[Vi]

Nik - Scum, but I don't think with DTM. I'd put money that he had something to do with the Charter shot.

Why do you think I'm scum again? You didn't mention anything about thinking I was scum in that wall, I think.

Well you're certainly lurking aboot in the shadows until someone brings you into the game; is that scummy enough?

Ok, after all this banter I still strongly favor the DTM lynch for today, and I'm not gonna switch to Spyrex.
Tomorrow is a different story, but we'll see about that then. DTM:
- is scummy, scummy, scummy
- has no vote (mod-confirmed even, unlike most things in this game...)
- has claimed a role that can't be confirmed.

And even if it's true, he's still a vote-less vanilla.

Why doesn't SpyreX fit the first and third of these?

Yup, SpyreX is scum. He's doing the exact same scummy thing DTM did here, except he's not even giving reasons for it.

ITT, YosTwo doesn't read SpyreX's post and looks worse for it. And by "worse" I mean "like cult".

@Benmage: If you want to play Queen of Hearts with both SpyreX and DTMaster, why not switch?

[Vi]

1.) Is there a case, has there ever been a case, for me actually being scummy? That is news to me. It's been, like I illustrated: charter + claim. Always that.

Not a formal one, but do you really need more than charter + claim to find scum?
You need to join the circle of Cop haters. The claim is either your own fault or Battle Mage's fault, so.

3.) 100% confirmable? No. However, we haven't even seen if I am right about THIS one much less what happens tomorrow.

--NOTHING-- about what you have said so far is confirmable - the claim itself, your speculation about the claim, your alleged Hider result (which is accurate at least, but not confirmable), or your alleged Watch (oops, didn't see anything/got roleblocked).
Your claim would START to have credence if DTMaster flipped Mafia Anything. Which brings up the question of how much faith I should expect to have in your claim in the first place and whether that would make it worth testing, loop to beginning of argument.

Bonus fact for Crazy:
You said that scum-DT loses a 2-person endgame, right?
By the same token Town-DT loses a 3-person endgame.
In other words, unless DT is a power role he is effectively already dead.

If I were to draw a conspiracy here I would say that DTMaster's vote loss came from the same person who poisoned IH; similar M.O.

[Vi]

Not a formal one, but do you really need more than charter + claim to find scum?
You need to join the circle of Cop haters. The claim is either your own fault or Battle Mage's fault, so.

Yes. God yes. Especially since this is the faultless wagon: when I flip everyone gets to go "Ohh, welp I guess WORDS MEAN WHAT WORDS ARE" and "Ohh, I guess he was telling the truth about the conjecture."

At least a freaking case has back and forth you can look at for geniune attacks versus the wagoners. This? Nothing.

So just for restating what's already been restated, the case on DTMaster is:
*hating on charter vs. Mariyta
*OMGfalling apart at beginning of D2
*suddenly pulling self together when SpyreX became a valid wagon
?
I'm really not going along with this.

Wouldn't your previous notOMGUS analysis suggest that you

can

find genuine attacks versus the wagoners?

Speaking bluntly, why should we take you at your word?

-----

@Yos2: So
*You're denying that the cult conjecture "oh hey there's a cult BUT PAY NO MIND GAIZ" is at all a tell
*Everyone who is

looking for cult

looking AT YOU for cult is much more likely Mafia
?

[Vi]

@Town
My new name is Psudo-Tree Stump.

[Vi]

Not to mention the OMGFalling apart wasn't your simple "fuck this, vote: myself" -

he built a case on himself

. I mean, seriously.

n00bVi doesn't see the difference.

Incidentally, DTMaster didn't "jump on you" at the first opportunity... and... he

also

asked to be quicklynched if your lynch went wrong.

Honestly if this goes wrong just quick lynch me tomorrow. I'm trusting charter here since he's displayed more information then a normal cop would ever get. Or you can do me now and do Spyrex tomorrow. Either way works.

Unvote
Vote: SpyreX

BTW. L-3

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you accusing me of being the cult recruit because I was the first to point out that there might be one, or something?

I would think there's a higher chance of it, yes - partly because of the part in caps in that quote.

Actually, yes. I've found that "hunting for a secondary scum group" is a pretty decent scum tell. People who are mafia love to hunt for someone in a different scum group; the same is true in a normal game if someone is looking for a SK in a situation where I would expect town to be focused on looking for mafia.

Not contested. However, considering that nobody has actually VOTED you for being cult or said anything beyond the previous point making you more likely to be cult (ITO), I think you're using it as a cheap excuse to OMGUS people.

[Vi]

@Yos
That's the standard for cult, is that correct? According to the Wiki this is possible:

In some variations, if the Cult Leader dies, the role is passed to the oldest living recruited player. In other variations, if the Cult Leader dies then the Cult can no longer recruit. Also, there are some variations that have a backup Cult Leader that takes charge when the Cult Leader dies.

Link here

If you'll forgive the condescension, that was edited in during early 2007, when roles were less standardized and this pesky "balance" thing didn't show up as often.

In other words, no, that's not the standard for Cults - in fact, it's kind of criminal, as the Town can lynch Cult every day and still lose.

[Vi]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you accusing me of being the cult recruit because I was the first to point out that there might be one, or something?

I would think there's a higher chance of it, yes - partly because of the part in caps in that quote.

Sure, if I had said that.

Also, geez, a cult recruiter? That was a stroke of luck. There might be a cult recruit somewhere in the game, who got recruited last night...not a high priority to find now, but something to think about.

So PAY NO MIND may not have been accurate, but the general idea is still there.

Actually, yes. I've found that "hunting for a secondary scum group" is a pretty decent scum tell. People who are mafia love to hunt for someone in a different scum group; the same is true in a normal game if someone is looking for a SK in a situation where I would expect town to be focused on looking for mafia.

Not contested. However, considering that nobody has actually VOTED you for being cult or said anything beyond the previous point making you more likely to be cult (ITO), I think you're using it as a cheap excuse to OMGUS people.

The fact that people haven't voted me actually makes it worse; it's a way for scum to do fake scumhunting that won't actually be proven wrong.

Wouldn't scumhunting involve, y'know, pressing on the subject?

[Vi]

*comment about the conspicuous lack of Nikanor-scum ITT goes here*

[Vi]

Interesting theory. This would require Kairyuu's killer to be the scum who removed DTM's vote (or for said vote-remover to be fairly quick).

? Explain.

I think that it is possible for Yosarian2 to be a recruit (given his reputation, mostly), but it is also possible that Kairyuu was a death miller.

Apples, meet oranges.

No, not really. I mentioned it as a possibility, because it's something the town should keep in mind, and also said that it's not something we need to find today. Do you disagree with that?

I disagree that it's something that Town has to keep in mind, or at least bring up in discussion. A lone Cultist is just a Serial Survivor, which given my expectations of this setup would be nothing special.

Then DTM accused me of being cult for reasons that are clearly wrong, involving a "link" that wold have happened before the recruiter would even have a chance to recruit, and then SpyreX followed him (oddly, considering they're otherwise "fighting") and called me cult for no reason at all. And then you called me cult because I pointed out that all of that was scummy, from both of them.

Ignoring the blanket accusation, this actually brings up an interesting question.
Yos, what do you think of SpyreX claiming an N0 action?

Right, real scumhunting would. Scum trying to fake scumhunting would be more likely to just causally bring it up, try and fix the idea in people's minds by just having multiple people repeat it so they could set up a mislynch later, but not really push it, since they have nothing to gain by doing so yet.

So nothing terribly different from what you're doing to me, DTMaster, and SpyreX. Pot, kettle, etc. at best.

[Vi]

Then DTM accused me of being cult for reasons that are clearly wrong, involving a "link" that wold have happened before the recruiter would even have a chance to recruit, and then SpyreX followed him (oddly, considering they're otherwise "fighting") and called me cult for no reason at all. And then you called me cult because I pointed out that all of that was scummy, from both of them.

Ignoring the blanket accusation, this actually brings up an interesting question.
Yos, what do you think of SpyreX claiming an N0 action?

(shrug) Based on the public information, we appear to either be in a cop head start situation or a day 1 start situation. I don't think we should discuss this at length right now, so as to not out any town power roles.

OTOH, I will mention the fact that DTM didn't seem to realize that scum didn't kill night zero might be a point in his favor.

...

So nothing terribly different from what you're doing to me, DTMaster, and SpyreX. Pot, kettle, etc. at best.

Wait...what?

You don't think I've been attacking and putting pressure on DTM and SpyreX today? You think I "haven't really been pushing" them?

Good point. I should have been more direct.

So nothing terribly different from what you're doing to me.

@Nikanor: Did you just change your mind? It's difficult to tell.

[Vi]

@Nikanor: Your interpretation of events.

@Yos2: I disagree that Person C is doing X.

[Vi]

@Nikanor: Your interpretation of events.

Sorry, I still don't get it. Try hitting me with a wooden mallet, that usually jogs my brain.

I know where to find a pic of Flonne doing that, but I'm too lazy to get it.

Anyway, rereading it it's not worth pressing.

[Vi]

This game's not going anywhere at this point.

[Vi]

@Vi
New input is good and we got a couple of replacements to give new perspectives in this game.

The new input is, again, not going to go anywhere today unless a lot of people decide that both of {you, SpyreX} are not scum.

The replacements (more Maemuki than Sajin) are doing a great job of not posting, as is

tajo

, who for some reason hasn't even been

prod

ded. Which isn't terribly different from those player slots pre-replacement, and we were fine then. <_<

[Vi]

Vi you are killing me here.

That is one interpretation of me having a vote on you...

You seem to agree with almost everything I'm saying except for, of course, where your vote is.

Not really "almost everything"...
It would be closer to the truth to say that we don't contest the details leading to my decision that you're more likely scum.

Post 1000 snatch!

[Vi]

And for DTM and why I keep hammering the case he built on himself:

A townie giving up is one thing. A townie that is able to parse his play, build a case on himself

as scum

and vote for himself requires a level of cognitive dissonance that just doesn't add up.

Strike 1: Self voting. Potential AtE argument used against me
Strike 2: Premature unprovoked claim.
Strike 3: Day 1 play.

Considering two of these accusations were self-fulfilling I don't think you can call it a case on himself

as scum

, although if he is Town you could make a good case for him playing against his Win Condition and trolling him off the site.

Nikanor is still scum, etc.
As a result Benmage telling him not to cudgel his brains is not helpful.

[Vi]

At this point I'm kind of apathetic toward DTMaster and would rather look someplace else tomorrow.

[Vi]

And I'm extremely miffed that through a stroke of luck I am THIS close to winning and yet Paranoid Cop is going to screw it up.

Um, SpyreX.

I win if I successfully pick the lynch target

three

times.

Battle Mafia: Cult takes a hit!

Day 2

!

Also, next time make a more plausible claim

@Cass: That was the hammer, yes.

[Vi]

.... Yea, Mariya, DTM and tomorrow myself makes 3.

0.0
oic

[Vi]

Yos2, why do you think DTMaster is scum? What kind of scum is he (Mafia, or something else)?

Something's bothering me about SpyreX's claim and the flips we've had so far. I wonder if anyone else has seen it?

randomlunatic's vote record and posts in isolation are hilarious in all the wrong kinds of ways.

Vote: randomlunatic

(L-6)

[Vi]

EBWOP: And I just now looked at the link Crazy brought up. If SpyreX was able to choose his alignment at the beginning of the game, then everything makes sense again. (In a game like this, choosing to be scum is usually the smart decision, as scum usually win.)

What that also means is that DTMaster is not necessarily innocent because SpyreX was pushing for him. With that said, I still don't really like the case on him that much.

[Vi]

Yos2, what do you think of the idea that SpyreX did not know who the other Mafiosi were?

[Vi]

ITT, Yos2 is in tremendous denial for no obvious reason.

[Vi]

ITT, Yos2 is in tremendous denial for no obvious reason.

Regarding what? [/slightly confused]

Bookie, and earlier Night 0. I can't tell if he's playing dumb, but I suspect he is.

Yos2, what do you think of the idea that SpyreX did not know who the other Mafiosi were?

But what if that is what the Night 0 was for? Spyre was allowed to chose, as soon as he did, he was given the list of other scum mates. That's one of the first things that I thought of when I saw the "Bookie" role was allowed to choose factions. I would presume that would happen.

I think you're presuming incorrectly. SpyreX wouldn't be joining the scum - just betting they'd win.

[Vi]

ITT we worship the dayvig~
Also, now I really like my vote.

I'm not sure quite how much we can trust what Nikanor said for a couple of reasons, but I'm disappointed that he was killed before he pushed toward whoever he Jailed N2. I'm pretty sure he was telling the truth about the scumkills occurring during the Day.

If it's true that all the day- and nightkills come from scum, it seems we can't count on a vig to do it.

We've been doing pretty well so far

tajo, a question out of left field but do you have any bonus abilities?

[Vi]

What does ITT stand for, I didn't see it on the wiki.

In This Topic.
It's not a Mafia term.

[Vi]

At the bottom of this string of posts, do you see three dialog boxes "Display posts from previous"? Change the middle one to the player you want to read and press "Go".

[Vi]

tajo, a question out of left field but do you have any bonus abilities?

Whats the point of this question?

Think about why I would ask, and answer again.

[Vi]

Okay, taco, you win. Or lose.

In case my power-role-ness wasn't already obvious, I'm an Enhancer. Each Night I can give someone a neat bonus ability -

if

they're Town. N0 I chose ckd, and he got a triplevote (

and

he's confirmed Town). N1 I chose cicero, and... well, N2 I chose you.

Now consider that I was specifically asking if you had any bonus abilities. There's no reason for me to do that unless
1) I knew something about them, and
2) I knew enough to tie you to them
thus your hostile response was unwarranted.

So you have five posts to make something up that you think I'll believe.

[Vi]

I chose ckd because I know he's a skilled player and I wanted to get a tough read out of the way early.

I chose cicero because he was close to GIEFF and you and so forth.

I chose you because I haven't been confident that you were Town throughout.
I thought about choosing Yos2 though.

[Vi]

I chose ckd because I know he's a skilled player and I wanted to get a tough read out of the way early.

I chose cicero because he was close to GIEFF and you and so forth.

I chose you because I haven't been confident that you were Town throughout.
I thought about choosing Yos2 though.

Kay, Vi. I assume BM gets to pick the ability, right?

Yes.

[Vi]

I fully support Benmage claiming his post restriction is tied to his role. I have a post restriction as well; if you don't know what it is already I'm not going to tell you.

This is also why
*I made the connection that charter's paranoia was a post restriction
*I asked SpyreX if he had breadcrumbed his role anywhere, and continued voting him after he said no

If Benmage is the only killing element left this game is pretty much locked down...

[Vi]

And Vi, can you grant me force lynch powers too? I promise to use them well for you. I must make up for the past

I didn't even get to forcelynch anyone in that game and the mod was almost literally pushing me into doing it >.>

Also, ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school.

[Vi]

BloodCovenant, why are you casting aspersions on Benmage?

In addition, can you point to a time when Benmage did NOT have a post restriction? That would significantly help your theory.

[Vi]

It would be more accurate to say we need more EVEN activity.

U. Vote Count

DTMaster (2) - Cass, populartajo
randomlunatic (2) - Vi, Yosarian2
Maemuki (1) - Benmage
Yosarian2 (1) - Sajin
SpyreX (0.4) - DTMaster

Not Voting: BloodCovenant, randomlunatic, Maemuki, Crazy, curiouskarmadog

6 to lynch; DTMaster would be the deadline lynch right now.

[Vi]

@Vi

Two questions for you:

Why am I counted in your vote?
Is the Viera Summoner your favorite class?

1) Comic relief.
2) One of my favorite-looking classes for the stern facial expression. I change my avatar every time I die in a game; if you saw the game I most recently got out of you would know why I wanted someone who didn't look amused. As far as utility, the Summoner wasn't really that great compared to the more broken classes tbh.

-----

There appear to be a few people who don't seem to fully realize the meaning of "let tajo use his bonus ability to finish the day", so I'll help the cause out a little.

Unvote: randomlunatic

randomlunatic has 3 votes compared to DTMaster's 2 and Sajin's 1, so he's still the leading wagon.

Not sure what a claim's going to do here considering most of our scum have flipped without claiming, and the two who

did

claim just muddied the waters for pages.

[Vi]

Hay Yos2.
Practically speaking, what would be the downside to your death?

[Vi]

I don't think that will be necessary.

[Vi]

@Vi
Viera Assassin + Concentrate = 1 hit KO first round.
Moogle Gunner + Ultimate Charge = Across the Map DEATH.

I'm playing the 2nd one right now and my favourite versatile class is the blue mage right now.

/FFTA offtopicness

Viera Assassin is the #1 class in the game IMO precisely because of what you said. (One of FFTA's failures is that it's so easily breakable with one-dimensional strategies like this.)

Ultima attacks cost way too much to be worth it. Moogle Gunner + Stopshot is much more cost-effective and does more or less the same thing.

Another favorite is Blue Mage. As if Damage > MP isn't broken enough, Bad Breath can turn someone into a poisoned blinded slowed imped muted frog, plus maybe some ailments I forgot. That's actually

better

than OHKOing them, as you're free to steal their stuff with 100% effectiveness and IIRC Imp and Frog remain after being downed.

Bangaa Defender can cast Aura to give itself auto-Revive and auto-Regen, use Meltdown to kill itself and everyone around it, revive like nothing happened, and do it all again.

Thieves are self-explanatory.

-----

Why is it unnecessary?

What would an isolated read of Yos2 do for anyone other than make it a little longer for people to scroll to the next post?

-----

Well, for one, I'm town. For two, I'm town, and for three, I'm obvtown.

What kind of question is that?

Odds are very good that your death will have little effect on your Win Condition. There's really not much reason to protest, unless you can help put this game further into lockdown.

[Vi]

I really don't see where all the yos-hate is coming from. I don't think he's mafia and I see no evidence for anthing else either. Just that some people without any reasoning called him cult-recruit (there might not even be one, remember the miller claim? May it was true....) And some shakespearian accusations. Unless Benmage is an unlimitede daycop besides being a vig, I don't think he has any special information about anyone, so I don't see why we should blindly follow him. Let's just kill random, if we apparantly are going to trust DTM...

Tajo, would you please end the day before we get the next delay and stagnation of waiting for a replacement to read the game?

"Without any reasoning" is wounding.
In addition, are you saying that Kairyuu-CultRecruiter was actually a Townie cursed with a bad reveal?

I agree with tajo ending the Day.

[Vi]

"Without any reasoning" is wounding.

What is the reasoning? I still don't know what it is.

...ah, never mind. I can't put it together without it seeming ridiculous.
I'm willing to drop the subject.

[Vi]

Do I write in another language?

A good claim, benmagish level, could save her.

Olvidabas a escribir en ingles la otra vez.

Notice that rl acted

just as scummy in all the same ways as all the other people who have flipped scum

and rl's replacement (if scum) has a very strong reason to make an unprovable claim.

rl's replacement (if Town) will likely get lynched immediately.

There is no benefit to waiting -unless- rl is Town

and

has a Benmage-level claim, both of which I do not expect.

[Vi]

Battle Mage, please claim for randomlunatic

Is there a harm on waiting a not that impossible scenario? Not that I expect it, but hey, anything can happen.

I definitely just outlined a couple of bad (or at least reasonably undesirable) things that could come of it.

Even if random gets lynched at the end and she has some kind of actions, then the best play is to also try to know them, to prevent someone from claiming them or to find posterior inconsistencies and such.

You don't think we would be able to determine from rl's flip what abilities he has?
Similarly, what kind of "posterior inconsistencies" are you thinking of?

[Vi]

Vi, I dont know if you get the analogy. You are asking me to hammer someone at L-1 with no claim. I think you are good enough to know how bad is that, arent you?

How bad it could potentially be, sure.
But we already have one person who can dayvig people, one person who is effectively a Cop, and two other proven innocents with more on the way even if I die. How much more do we need?

This is an example.

Possible scenario 1: random claims that he is an investigative role.

What are the advantages of lynching her without her claim?

That depends somewhat on whether the claim is false.
If it is, holding off on killing rl would be fairly terrible.
If it isn't, there's a decent chance that the information will be useless or irrelevant at this point.
Even if neither of the above is the case, we have enough cool roles right now that we can lock the game down without.

[Vi]

Vi, I dont know if you get the analogy. You are asking me to hammer someone at L-1 with no claim. I think you are good enough to know how bad is that, arent you?

How bad it could potentially be, sure.
But we already have one person who can dayvig people, one person who is effectively a Cop, and two other proven innocents with more on the way even if I die. How much more do we need?

This is an example.

Possible scenario 1: random claims that he is an investigative role.

What are the advantages of lynching her without her claim?

That depends somewhat on whether the claim is false.
If it is, holding off on killing rl would be fairly terrible.
If it isn't, there's a decent chance that the information will be useless or irrelevant at this point.
Even if neither of the above is the case, we have enough cool roles right now that we can lock the game down without.

Overconfidence is a bad quality, Vi.

Anyways, I dont think you can win a debate about optymal play, so Id suggest another avenue of debate. Who else do you think is scum?

It's not like you could win that debate either.

I don't have any scumreads on anyone that are nearly as strong as what I have on randomlunatic.

[Vi]

Hey BloodCovenant, stomping your feet and getting mad when you get your way doesn't improve much.

As it is.
@Sajin:

I am not trying to manipulate the days events. You are.

What's wrong with that, exactally?

I would prefer getting a replacement

[for randomlunatic]

and lynching yos personally.

Please explain why on both counts.

[Vi]

Are you seriously asking me why we should get a replacement?

Sigh.

Lynching a non poster can easily be pushed by scum

and have the non poster flip a strong confirmable PR. Waiting only costs us patience. Its worth it, no?

The randomlunatic wagon at a glance:

*Me

(confirmed Town)

*curiouskarmadog

(confirmed Town)
*Yos2

*you

(!)

*Benmage

(confirmed Town, now off the wagon)
*BloodCovenant (now off the wagon)

You were saying?

Also- Why are you insistent on NOT following the leads of the most likely town people?

There are a couple of people who aren't following the leads of the most likely Town people, yourself being one of them

Since even the "most likely Town people" are divided atm, I don't see this as a strong point against BC.

[Vi]

I do not understand what your trying to say there in the first part.

Who on that wagon do you see as scum trying to push a lynch on a nonposter, exactally?

But can you please not answer questions directed to others? Its annoying.

I am nothing if not annoying

Where is our mod, anyway

[Vi]

Oh hai, 'chaz posted in another game~

[Vi]

IH's poisoning would be ideal, minus that IH didn't die. (A shame, in retrospect)

2. Vollkan - Doctor, Killed Day 1

13. Tubby216 - Protown Neighbour, (not quite) Lynched Day 1

8. Haylen - Protown Neighbour, Killed Day 1

9. Gieff - Mafia Neighbour, Killed Day 1

20. ElectricBadger - Mafia Doctor, Killed Day 1

7. Mariyta - Mafia Distorter, (Actually) Lynched Day 1

12. Cicero - Lyncher, Loses Night 1

6. Shanba - Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 1
24. Charter - Paranoid Cop, Killed Day 2

19. Kairyuu (Rep. Seraphim) - Cult Recruiter, Killed Day 2

23. SpyreX - Mafia Bookie, Lynched Day 2

5. Nikanor - Mafia JailKeeper, Killed Day 3

Clearly the most suspicious death remaining is tubby's.
Failing that, I think vollkan or Shanba's deaths are most suspicious tbh...
I would assume that the Mafia was behind Haylen's death and charter's death. Nikanor mentioned that the Cult was behind Shanba's death, so I'm not sure what good it would do to look up Shanba.

Bonus question that merits asking: Why can't you tell us outright what your ability does?

[Vi]

@DTMaster: What Yos said.
Also, I would rather investigate a death where we don't know the source. We can safely bet that the Mafia were behind the charter kill.

[Vi]

@CKD

I was debating with Vi aboyt Haylen, Charter and Volkan. How are these deaths not suspicious? Do you not agree that in terms of flavour (with poisoning) Haylen's death is suspicious since IH/Mae was poisoned on day 1?

Haylen - most probably a Mafia kill
charter - most probably a Mafia kill
vollkan - My choice.

[Vi]

vollkan - My choice.

To whom?

To chaz, if his ability indeed lies in forensics.

[Vi]

How much of this requires our input, anyway?
The more theatrics we can skip at this point, the better.

[Vi]

Which would be your choice?

[Vi]

Why exactly hasn't Porochaz full claimed yet?

1) He's scum
2) He's too drunk to listen to the people who are plainly telling him to fullclaim or at least drop the magic act

[Vi]

Since this isn't a Tarhalindur game, I fully expect that any past bastardliness can be rectified by lynching present scum.

I share the Town Win Condition.
Continue.

[Vi]

So chaz, who do you plan on investigating with this?

CKD: Yeah, the claim is a bit dubious, but we're not lynching anyone today, and it'll be interesting to hear what he says tommorow.

Wait, we're not?

I win with the town and am not aware of any other win condition.

Sajin, please tell me why this won't do for a lie detector~

This charade is starting to seem more dubious.

[Vi]

So chaz, who do you plan on investigating with this?

I thought I was investigating someone randomly

So you mean to tell me you read the game before claiming, and then decided that

nobody

stood out as worth investigating?

I'm definitely not apologizing for wanting randomlunatic autokilled

and still want it to happen

.
I wouldn't mind if Sajin was offed though.
I'm kind of iffy about Maemuki, but her posts aren't winning her any bonus points.

[Vi]

Ok I know who Id go for if your going to let me see the day out? I will tell you guys if you want.

Chaz is stalling (again); lynch plz

tajo, would you mind using your ability the day

before

deadline so there's no confusion as to whether you did it?

[Vi]

I think Sajin would be a better lynch.

Deadline is this Monday.

The fact that Porochaz did not report an N2 result makes me feel a little better about him, although it confirms regardless that randomlunatic is a d00fus.

Unvote: Porochaz
Vote: Sajin

(L-4)

U. Vote Count

Maemuki 3 (Benmage, Crazy, curiouskarmadog)
Porochaz 2 (Yosarian2, Sajin)
DTMaster 2 (Cass, populartajo)
Sajin 2 (BloodCovenant, Vi)
Killah Nine 1 (DTMaster)

Unsurprisingly useless (Porochaz, Maemuki)

With 11 votes in play, 6 votes will lynch. If day ended now, Maemuki would be lynched. Deadline hits in 4 days.

[Vi]

No daykill, no nightkill. It looks like the cult recruit(s) is/are all that's left.

Will the person who got my bonus ability hurry up and post - sooner rather than later. I would hate for the person I gave it to (if scum) to realize it and know to fake something.

[Vi]

I'm obviously speculating here. But in BM bastard Mod game 1, there were three cop type roles. do you think we could have more than 1 doctor?

*Claim
*Stop speculating (aloud, at least)

^^pick one

[Vi]

I kind of highly doubt that you have been targeted by a kill, BC.

2. Vi's target claims his new ability or gets scum status.

You have until tonight to do it.

Mae is town

Details.

[Vi]

...which is what I said yesterday. I think we're going to win today though.

Benmage, shoot Yos2.
That's two posts without claiming when there's absolutely no reason to stall a claim - unless you're scum, didn't get anything, and need to deduce if you were targeted.

[Vi]

As for me, I'd prefer that Yos was just vigged, rather than go through this roleblocking speculation.

You paying attention? I'm already dead. I'm trying to figure out what's going on

so the town will be able to evaluate Vi's alignment after I'm gone.

This is news.

Bonus question for Maemuki: What is your role title?

[Vi]

Further bonus question for Maemuki: What is your post restriction?

[Vi]

As for me, I'd prefer that Yos was just vigged, rather than go through this roleblocking speculation.

You paying attention? I'm already dead. I'm trying to figure out what's going on

so the town will be able to evaluate Vi's alignment after I'm gone.

This is news.

What's news?

Suspicion of my alignment, considering the circumstances.

I double-checked my own post restriction. I fulfilled it through Day 3 in spite of the Lie Detector lunacy. So if there's a mistake here, it's not on my end.
I don't think the outside-factor defense is plausible, but if you flip Town and there is no error, I'm going to be... concerned.

I'm really interested in what tajo has going on with Prozac.

[Vi]

As for me, I'd prefer that Yos was just vigged, rather than go through this roleblocking speculation.

You paying attention? I'm already dead. I'm trying to figure out what's going on

so the town will be able to evaluate Vi's alignment after I'm gone.

This is news.

What's news?

Suspicion of my alignment, considering the circumstances.

I certainly expect the town to re-evaluate your claim after I flip town, yeah. Wouldn't you?

It would be a short argument, as deliberately setting you up to die right now (as a scum version of my role) would be suicidal and a one-shot trick at best.
Especially considering there's a dayvig in front of me (DIFOM, a Mafia predicament that actually needs to occur more often).

I don't think the outside-factor defense is plausible, but if you flip Town and there is no error, I'm going to be... concerned.

Concerned how?

...actually, looking at the setup numbers again there should probably be one more Mafioso out there, so it's plausible that the kill was foregone in favor of a Roleblock. But the M. Jailer is already dead, so I don't think there would be another Roleblocker. Cultists usually lose their abilities upon recruitment. So... I'm not sure what would be left if there's no error and you're not scum.

[Vi]

1502: A cult-anything is possible isn't it? If a cult recruited a town PR wouldn't they become cult-PR?

Sometimes. In bastard games, more often than not :v

Plus did Vi ever verify that she was RB. I see you saying that she was which is why you were never received powers.

@Vi
Verify this, it's clear you target Yos with your attack on him. As well I would recommend a BM PM if this concerns your power and post restriction.

*changes your language settings to English* Ask me those again?

[Vi]

I received no notification regarding whether my ability did anything; I never have.
Most of the time noninvestigative roles are not told if they are Roleblocked, so.

[Vi]

It would be a short argument, as deliberately setting you up to die right now (as a scum version of my role) would be suicidal and a one-shot trick at best.

So, it would be suicidal, and you don't expect to be suspected much for it? Don't those thoughts contradict each other?

In my universe it makes

perfect

sense.

Vi, could you explain how your post restriction works, exactly?

I need to post the word "bonus" at least once in every five pages. And I have without fail; check for yourself if you like.
Hence my frustration at Prozac adding an extra 13 or so pages to the end of the Day for no apparent reason.

I don't think the outside-factor defense is plausible, but if you flip Town and there is no error, I'm going to be... concerned.

Concerned how?

...actually, looking at the setup numbers again there should probably be one more Mafioso out there, so it's plausible that the kill was foregone in favor of a Roleblock. But the M. Jailer is already dead, so I don't think there would be another Roleblocker. Cultists usually lose their abilities upon recruitment. So... I'm not sure what would be left if there's no error and you're not scum.

So, assume I flip town (which I will, probably very shortly.) What is your conclusion going to be?

Honestly I would rather wait to see what actually happens before considering the possibilities; because if there's an error that answers everything, and if there isn't, I've already explained that I'm at a loss.

[Vi]

Further bonus question for Maemuki: What is your post restriction?

I don't have one. >.< *double checks* No, I don't have one. Why?

Vi - Town power role - has post restriction
charter - Town power role - has post restriction
Benmage - Town(?) power role - has post restriction
vollkan - Town power role - unknown
SpyreX - not a Town power role - does not have post restriction
You - ______ - does not have post restriction

[Vi]

You could just PM the mod to yield on behalf of your faction

My night choice should be obvious.

Also bonus.

[Vi]

what? regarding whether or not self voting takes away our right to vote?

I don't think the mod would give out that information.

I have no idea what you're responding to...
The only reason you would have to self-vote at this point is to acknowledge your faction's loss.

[Vi]

FRUNGY FRUNGY FRUNGY

BONUS BONUS BONUS

Crazy's plan (1583) sounds good, etc. We need more Benmage.

tajo investigating GIEFF comes as a surprise tbh.

[Vi]

lol, those are results?

No, they are flying ponies.

Note to self: You are a Pegasus Knight. After I get the time to go back to working on Benmage's avatar, yours is next.

*sets out Benmage bait*

[Vi]

ITT,

[Vi]

Cass has flaked off the site.
Benmage is
Battle Mage is a HoSer. Hopefully that deadline isn't to be taken too seriously.

bonus bonus bo-nus ♪

[Vi]

I think No Lynch is the way to go at this point.

Vote: No Lynch

(L-4 or something)

[Vi]

I really want to sort this kill mess, Vi and Crazy.

Any ideas?

Benmage claimed the E-Badger kill.
GIEFF was venge-stabbed by tubby (unless that was just flavor, in which case I have no idea).
One of vollkan and Haylen was a Mafia kill.
IH's poisoning was probably randomlunatic being a randomlunatic (read: Mafia Screwball).

I don't know what to make of the remaining kill tbh.

[Vi]

Also bonus.

[Vi]

Unvote:
Vote: Battle Mage

Why not give it a shot.

Is there any precedence for this in Battle Mage's games?

In any event, it's better than a traditional No Lynch.

Unvote: No Lynch
Vote: Battle Mage

(L-3)

[Vi]

Vote: Benmage

(L-3)
I'm disappointed I didn't figure this one out sooner.
(For those who need it said plainly: I targeted Benmage.)

Bonus: If Benmage isn't scum for some unforeseen reason, this game becomes a logic puzzle.

[Vi]

So, a fake post restriction.
Still the most entertaining thing I've read in a long time.

I'll see what happens next, but I don't think it's anything we can't logic-opera our way through if the game doesn't end now.

[Vi]

@BC
1. You don't have a win con? o-o.

ITT, DTMaster scumslips.

Also bonus, for what good it was for Benmage.

[Vi]

curiouskarmadog was Copped out by tajo D5 (long after any recruit).

I've been Copped D2 (after each recruit), and have basically been making this Town awesome all game.

BloodCovenant just got confirmed.

That leaves

DTMaster.

Thus my suspicion was correct that DTMaster getting his vote back was not an ordinary bonus (as evidenced by him getting it back for more than one Day).

As an extra bonus, if DTMaster is for some reason not scum we still don't lose... although granted that will mean that I have no idea what's going on.

@tajo: STFU, GTFO, and whichever other four-letter acronyms apply here. Now.

[Vi]

but why was pop killed?

For insulting the mod. Plain as day in 1711.

[Vi]

@Vi

Then you just lied about your claim. Note that your enhancer claim includes that X person gains an ability

if they are townie

. Which means no one is confirmed.

No..............................or wait a moment.

BM said you lost your vote for

the rest of the game

. So... if you got your vote back... I should have boosted you last Night instead to see if anything else would happen >.<

EBWOP: What are the chances that the only people alive are all town aligned?

I've thought of that. Unfortunately, if that was the case the Battle Mage lynch would have revealed scum.

The question about win conditions is similar, because I had to ask to make sure this wasn't a last-person-standing-wins game. I got my clarification, and if there were only Townies left the game should be over.

If tajo's results would not reveal Cult, then I guess that would make CKD the recruit... which makes more sense than a DTMaster recruit tbh... but there's no guarantee of that in the first place... so >.>

I wonder.

@BloodCovenant:

No Lynch.
We can still confirm everyone with my bonus ability. It'll take time and be kind of boring, but etc.

[Vi]

There's another condition you're missing - cultists usually (but don't always) lose whatever abilities they had before recruitment. This falls under the same speculation as Cops not being able to detect Cults (I have no experience with either, btw).

Enhancements obviously appear to be for one day only. This is not explicitly stated in my Role PM.
I don't understand your objection to Yos2's bonus.

The only plausible way this can occur is if I am anti-town PR and I randomly guessed that on that night you targeted me I magically made myself gain my vote back. It also means that BM was lying when I was permanently lost my vote and I some how have influence on BM mod wise.

I don't believe you have control over your vote.
However, your vote coming back doesn't fall in line with the one-day-only deal everyone else has been getting, hence the immediate suspicion today.
However, because you were already demoted by randomlunatic, it would kind of make sense for you to be remoted instead of getting the bonus you would have gotten. Hence why I said I should have targeted you last Night instead.

Thus, I don't think what we have so far is conclusive and I'd like to No Lynch today to do another round of bonusing. There's no downside to this outside someone insulting the mod again AFAIK.

[Vi]

Vi, if you target the same "town" person twice, do they get powers twice?

I don't know; I haven't tried it.

[Vi]

I played a game once, Kubrick Mafia.

Where I was The cop, but I didn't get cop powers until Scum investigated me to find out if i really was spartacus. Then, in the game we stomped them.

But, that's just something I wanted to put out.

*glare*

[Vi]

Scum activating town role? Link please before night falls

Over here.

It was themed around the "

I

am Spartacus" mass roleclaim gag, and the mechanics behind it were... questionable. You can read them for yourself.

[Vi]

I played a game once, Kubrick Mafia.

Where I was The cop, but I didn't get cop powers until Scum investigated me to find out if i really was spartacus. Then, in the game we stomped them.

But, that's just something I wanted to put out.

*glare*

why the glare? o_o

There are decent reasons to suspect me at this time (PoE is the major one), but this isn't one of them.

I think ckd is a Day Tracker, but it couldn't hurt for him to Track me.

BM was making the kills in the day! lol.

We already tried this approach. It didn't work well.

Cult V Scum**
-Bad... Just bad... Then we're in lylo, and have to lynch either scum. And that doesn't even really make sense, since there have been no night kills for the past.... 3 nights?

Scum don't have a night kill. They have been daykilling right in front of us. But then Benmage died.

Also, I find it ironic that we weren't sure if this game would last beyond Day 1.

[Vi]

I think we should leave the almighty god alone until the game's over.

[Vi]

Well that was interesting.

Hey DTMaster, I used the No Lynch to confirm someone else

Question @Battle Mage: Could you post the list of enhancements along with all the actions and Role PMs?

[Vi]

I have to get another avatar now.

[Vi]

Wait... was i the only one without a win condition?

No. I don't think any of the Town Role PMs had a win condition. This was my Role PM.

Enhancer

Each day you may use your vote to try and hunt those who are attempting to break the system. In addition to this, you may target someone each night, and that player will have their role 'Enhanced'. Only protown players can recieve enhancements, and enhancements are all pre-determined by me. Furthermore, you are being hunted by a particular player, whose sole aim is to find you. You must post the word "Bonus" every 5 pages.

I misunderstood the part about pre-determined enhancements; I thought it was unique per player.
I also went way into left field with post restriction -> power role >.>

Vi who did you bonus they day before you said you bonus'd me?

YostheSecond.

I may as well give up on guessing what happened during this game and just take the win. But if you want to try,

N0 - ckd - triplevote
N1 - cicero - nothing
N2 - tajo - force-lynch
N3 - Yos2 - Vengeful kill (automatic use?)
N4 - DTMaster - regained vote
N5 - Benmage - nothing
N6 - BloodCovenant - kingmaker

or something like that.

[Vi]

Oh yes. Definitely in rare form today.

[Vi]

Here was my role. I pretty much was the boring one. Siiiiggh. I read the QT. I also noted that the plan was to lynch me. Somehow that didn't go through D:.

hi

Vi in the

I survived a Japanese game show

department

Fixed?

[Vi]

You are in good form lately. :p

I said that because I contradicted myself pretty badly in the post before it (look at who I said I bonused) >.>

What's the new avatar going to be?

I'm kind of reluctant to part with Malice after only two days...
But if Jahudo can get the glasses to work, probably Byakuren Hiziri. The Youchrist was the best person I could fit to an Enhancer/Lynchee.

[Vi]

A little late, but this game just showed up in the Scummies thread.

[Vi]

I just wanna know if the mafia teams had some sort've win together secret condition.

Otherwise a 3 person mafia team, even with screwball seemed tough. I had a badass post restriction, that made the game a ton of fun (and work)...but made winning damn near impossible.

And what did the other team even have??

I wanna see Vi's Role PM and mechanics. F'd me!

This post has the Role PM and what resulted from my Night Actions.
The actual mechanics were whatever Battle Mage typed while soused.