The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

ZazieR · Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:10 pm

@Everyone

Please state if you agree or not that the following rules show that there are only Innocents:

3. Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

The win cons are stated here. The mod has chosen to word it that Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. If there are town powerroles, then why would he have used Innocents and not Town or something like that?

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the town/innocents. You may be required to actually think, instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here* Get used to it.

This rule says 'town/innocents'. To me, this seems that the town=innocents.

So if you disagree, say no. If you agree, say yes.
Only the claimed powerroles must state their reasons for their answers. After that, I want to hear it from the other players.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:48 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:I don't think even Zaze actually believes there are no power roles. I think she's actively trying to ferret them out.

Wrong.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:59 am

That's not stating. why you disagree with my explanations given by the two rules.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:34 am

Amished, you have claimed to be some guy from the game. Your role is that guy. My role is an Innocent. You are not an Innocent.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:35 am

ZazieR wrote:In response to the first paragraph of post 3003:
Amished wrote:For more flavor (while trying to avoid being modkilled): From going through the games, I always thought of my character as the gatekeeper, and I'm pretty sure they referred to me as that at one time. In my PM it does say Caretaker, but does say I'm Jonathan. I'm a prisoner of fate, yadda yadda yadda;
delivered myself the blade to kill myself to become a spirit
both directed by fate and to ensure that fate continues the way it's supposed to. Say's that because of killing myself I've become almost as powerful as the mastermind to open the bridge between worlds (Chzo). Goes into explanation how that the prisoner of fate translates into me being a doctor and saving people that need to be saved and all.
As for the rest of the first paragraph, you used it to try and confirm Stepho. Now that I have proved that this isn''t the case, it becomes invalid. Which isn''t the case. Why would the mod state when Innocents win if there are town powerroles? And why would he use town/innocents in rule 13 if there are town pwerroles.
He wouldn''t. Which shows there aren''t any to me.

Amished wrote:BTW: How does Naomi potentially flipping scum tie to me? If she's scum, of course stepho is, but I don't have an investigation. Because they were scum doesn't have a bearing on my own. I see that as a feeble attempt to chain lynches without the proper logic to back it up (like hohum was talking about steph -> Naomi, but even then we'd have to look at it from a normal scumhunting perspective as Stepho could have hypothetically been telling the truth on Naomi's role.
See rules 3 and 13. It says Innocents. If one of the three is lying, all of you are.

Amished wrote:@Zaz: Why do you feel it relevant to divulge how many protections I have in a night?
Not in
a
night. I asked for how many ''protections'' you used N1. For the information it will give.

Amished wrote:@Lamont: Yes, the claim is unconfirmed. However, since you openly stated that you think Zaz is scum (which I agree with), we can lynch her, keep an unsupported claim til tomorrow with an investigation on Setael, then in an attempt to confirm all of Steph's investigations we can lynch him and see where Set stands at that point. Isn't that a better course of action than to lynch somebody that might have a key to a win condition?
Bad posting. Why lynch Stepho when a Naomi lynch will confirm Stepho if she turns up town?

And this, Amished.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:35 am

Mod - Did Naomi pick up her prod?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:49 am

All 3. The only thing that was hinting at possible powerroles was the extra day Hohum/Elmo received. But as it didn't happen last night, while Amished claims that he targeted Elmo, this makes it very unlikely.
Other than that are the rules which to me seem to show that there are no powerroles (Do you agree with that or not btw Tajo?) and each claimed powerrole has said something that doesn't add up to their claims.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:03 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Look, were being mod-mind-screwed. The claims aren't going to make sense. Amished's is proven & Stepho-Naomi's are linked.

Something just occurred to me. Naomi is no longer a PR right? I mean she said she has no other powers than being non-NK right?

So if she can prove Stepho's claim that would be like awesome right?

Is there anything I'm missing here? (I don't care about all this role PM crap and obscure rule interpretation crap)

You are right about Naomi. Which is why I've been saying that in case Stepho is telling the truth, we should lynch naomi instead of Stepho after he has investigated Setael. Therefore, Naomi should be today's lynch.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:08 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
Vote Count

Naomi_Saotome: 4 (populartajo, Lamont_Cranston, dramonic, Stephoscope)
ZazieR: 2 (Amished, Setael)
Naomi_Saotome: 1 (ZazieR)
Setael: 1 (Devestation)

Naomi has failed to pick up her prod, and will be replaced. Sironigous has failed to re-appear for 72 hours after his V/LA, and will be replaced, as he has not been on the site since the 4th.

Mod - There is only one Naomi >.< And what about Rocka?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:22 pm

populartajo wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
Knight of Cydonia wrote:
Vote Count

Naomi_Saotome: 4 (populartajo, Lamont_Cranston, dramonic, Stephoscope)
ZazieR: 2 (Amished, Setael)
Naomi_Saotome: 1 (ZazieR)
Setael: 1 (Devestation)

Naomi has failed to pick up her prod, and will be replaced. Sironigous has failed to re-appear for 72 hours after his V/LA, and will be replaced, as he has not been on the site since the 4th.

Mod - There is only one Naomi >.< And what about Rocka?
Zazie, are you voting Naomi?

Yes, I am. Check the quoted VC. It states Naomi twice. Which is why I told the mod that there is only one Naomi. After this, the five votes got combined.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:27 pm

@Zwet

If you agree with my impressions of rules 3 and 13 that there are no powerroles, then why did you vote Amished and not Naomi or Stepho?
Will you vote Naomi and why?

ZazieR · Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:54 am

If I''m correct, Naomi is at L-1.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:48 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
As night fell, the corridors were oddly silent. Only one lone figure trod the ancient floorboards, their mind no longer their own for this night. Reaching into the fire, feeling no pain, they took up the blackened apron and welding mask, wiped the soot away to reveal the killing edge of the blade, and shambled to Elmo's room. The poor fellow... he was already sickly, he never stood a chance.

Elmo, Sick Innocent, hacked to death Night 3.

Light-kun replaces Rockatansky, effective immediately.

Day 4 ends at 12noon GMT 28th August. From this point on, the days will begin to get shorter as the number of survivors decreases.

Wrong name

Anyway, I need to look back at some players now that it seems my theory was wrong.
(Can''t wait till I hear KoC''s explanation for the way he worded the rules like that)

And welcome, Light-kun

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:55 am

Confirmed Innocent.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:57 am

Flavour doesn''t match.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:58 am

KoC wrote:The Replacement, Innocent, impaled and torn apart Night 1.
Sajin, Innocent, hacked to death with a machete Night 1.

KoC wrote:the second night had fallen upon the Manor, and the creature that slew The Replacement once again took to the corridors, hunting a very specific prey. As it arrived at Xtoxm's room, it found the door wide open, and a trail of bone-dust leading away into the east wing of the building.

Stalking down the corridor, clawed spear in hand, the creature followed the trail all the way to the room where Sajin's corpse had been found. Hearing a scuttling behind, it span to face the grinning wraith who had mutilated Sajin, parrying the machete it wielded with ease.

If the Body of John DeFoe had had any emotion but rage left in it, it might have screamed as the spear impaled it through the tattered blacksmith's apron that held it's decomposing body together. With no more effort than a father lifting a new-born baby, the pale servant of Chzo carried the second son of Roderick DeFoe to the fire in the meeting hall, and forced it in, destroying the wraith's body.

When the remnants of the Manor's population awoke, they found the burning bones under a message painted in blood:

"And I saw the Body of the Bridge cast into flame, and the way was one third open."

Xtoxm, the Body of John Defoe, Spirit Serial Killer, has been impaled on a claw-spear and burnt.

KoC wrote:Elmo, Sick Innocent, hacked to death Night 3.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:11 am

Lamont, look at the flavour. It seems that scum didn''t kill Hohum.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:16 am

What about the underlined bits?

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:25 am

Wait. It came back O.o
Xtoxm''s body was burned. The one who killed Hohum took his outfit.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:26 am

No, Xtoxm had the manchete. Read the flavour I just posted.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:08 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Good point. I'm glad you looked it up. Xtoxm definitely wasn't the evil boy and the blade that killed Hohum was not specified.

No. The scum faction impales their victims according to the flavour. Xtoxm hacked their victims to death. And the flavour also shows that the one who killed last night took xtoxm''s ''outfit'' and his weapon. We have a new killing faction.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:13 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Good point. I'm glad you looked it up. Xtoxm definitely wasn't the evil boy and the blade that killed Hohum was not specified.

Also, that boy you mention in this post is probably John DeFoe:

15. Xtoxm - Policeman - The Body of John DeFoe, Killed N2

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:15 pm

Setael wrote:We know the house has to be destroyed - is there a chance the house can kill?

Very likely, it can''t kill. See this for my reason why.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:23 pm

For the information about the boy:

Wikipedia wrote:As the five prisoners seek answers to their predicament within the house, two of them are murdered in two different instances. The killer is found to be Trilby, possessed by the vengeful ghost of the second son of Sir Roderick Defoe, the house's original owner. Sir Roderick blamed his deformed son for causing his wife's death and chained him to a wall in the basement, regularly abusing and neglecting the boy (which Trilby speculates to have resulted in mental retardation and violent insanity.) Fifteen years later, Sir Roderick severely beat his son with an African wooden idol. His other son, Matthew, attempted to help his twin brother, but John (a name given by Trilby to the younger DeFoe for convenience) murdered both his brother and his father with a machete before dying of his own injuries. John's ghost still haunts the mansion within the tribal idol which killed him, possessing anyone who touches it and murdering anyone he encounters, wearing same blacksmith's apron and welding mask he did when he killed his father and brother.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:30 pm

Also, after checking the flavour and the wiki again, one thing had me wondered.
When Xtoxm died, it was stated that the bridge was open for 1/3 as he was the body of John DeFoe. The other two parts are the spirit and the mind of John DeFoe.
The spirit is locked up inside of an idol, which is very likely the doll. The only possible exceptions is that it''s just a doll, or it''s the idol, but without the spirit in it.
However, the part of the mind is interesting. The manor contains it. In the game, the mind gets destroyed when the manor is burned down.
So I need to think if scum want to have those matches gone or not.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:36 pm

Never mind the thinking. The matches should also be important for the scum if they are indeed the Order. Without it, the mind of John DeFoe can''t be destroyed.
Before anyone responds to this, I''d like to hear

Amished

about this.

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:38 pm

EBWOP

Amished

(And possibly

Lamont

)
If I remember correct, both of you have played the game. We know that SK Xtoxm was the body of John DeFoe. And therefore the killer of last night is very likely the player with the doll in posession. So who do you think the scum will be from the game?

ZazieR · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:39 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:That is surprising.

What is the emotion behind this statement?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:03 am

I wonder if the player knows that. It seems from the game and from the flavour of the night that he doesn''t know.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:07 am

Check the flavour of last night and tell me if you agree or disagree that the killer most likely didn''t know.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:09 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
As night fell, the corridors were oddly silent. Only one lone figure trod the ancient floorboards,
their mind no longer their own for this night
. Reaching into the fire, feeling no pain, they took up the blackened apron and welding mask, wiped the soot away to reveal the killing edge of the blade, and shambled to Elmo's room. The poor fellow... he was already sickly, he never stood a chance.

Elmo/Hohum, Sick Innocent, hacked to death Night 3.

Light-kun replaces Rockatansky, effective immediately.

Day 4 ends at 12noon GMT 28th August. From this point on, the days will begin to get shorter as the number of survivors decreases.

See the added blue for what I''m talking about.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:29 am

According to Amished, the possessed idol took control over the character who touched it. I think that this is going on.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:39 am

Which is why I thought the two might be connected. But this isn''t the case according to Setael.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:42 am

I think that the doll is indeed the idol.

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:51 am

Devestation wrote:
Lamont wrote:Btw, Zwet can you please tell us about the doll you received by PM?
OH SHI~

Unvote, Vote: Zwet

Why?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:05 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:I have no doll. Also, I think Zaz is right about scum possessing another player, but taking the kill flavor too literally. She took the rules too literally, at least.

And I thought you agreed with me yesterday about the powerroles very likely being fake claimed?
Also, if you disagree that the scum impale and the SK hack to death, can you give reasons why?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:08 am

Dramonic wrote:
Lamont_Cranston

zwetschenwasser
Tajo
ZazieR

Lamont

Pyromaniac

populartajo
zwetschenwasser
Sironigous
Light-kun

better

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:19 am

Stephoscope wrote:I still believe dramonic is our best lynch. I hate it when people post scumlists that conveniently clear themselves, and his proposition to use the matches on the doll is beyond fishy.

Good point about the matches. Dramonic, can you explain why you suggested it?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:20 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Also, I disagree with Zwet's opinion of Zazier's analysis. I think scum would disagree in the same way in fact...

Why?
Because her analysis helps the town to understand what is going on in the game which brings cohesion for effective scum hunting. Scum wouldn't like that.

Oh wait. Ha ha. I just got what you mean. You mean on the Naomi-PR-PM thing...

Oh ok nvm.

I don''t get what he means...
Can somebody explain?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:40 am

So about which were you talking?

ZazieR · Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:45 am

About the kill flavour?

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:20 am

Pyromaniac wrote:Siro needs to be replaced, not lynched.

He''s back from V/LA though. So I wonder why he hasn''t posted here yet.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:28 am

Setael wrote:I guess it's possible we could use a match to burn the doll... We must have the matches at he end of the game in order to win, but that might not mean all of them... You only need one to torch a house, right? If we decide we want to try it, I'll ask the mod about it. We wouldn't want to risk it unless we could be sure it won't use them all up.

I''m not sure about it.
It contains the spirit if the speculation is correct. One of the three ''items'' needed to open the bridge. But according to the rules, the bridge doesn''t need to be opened for the scum to win. Though after yesterday, I have less faith in them.
Which is why I want to hear from Amished.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:35 am

L-K wrote:
Zaz wrote:According to Amished, the possessed idol took control over the character who touched it. I think that this is going on.
I would have never thought of that. But can we read that much into flavor?

Check the flavour I posted of wikipedia and the one given in last night''s kill.
The killer lost his mind for this night and he took the same items as the killer took in the game when posessed (with the possible exception of the machete)

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:36 am

And there''s probably a way to destroy the doll without using the matches. Which will be discussed if the player with the doll claims.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:54 am

Flavour of N3 shows that we have a new SK.
Based upon the games, it''s very likely the player who posesses the idol with the soul, which is very likely the doll that dropped D3.

During N2, Xtoxm died, who was the body of John DeFoe. Due to this, the bridge went open for 1/3. The other two are the spirit (contained in the idol) and the mind (contained in the manor) of John DeFoe.
When all three are destroyed, the bridge fully opens and some God can enter this world then (if I remember it correctly)

I think that I have covered everything in this summary.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:02 am

Well, it''s likely that we have a SK that used to have a different allignment than 3rd party.
Opening the bridge doesn''t seem to be a good idea as the bad guys in the game wanted that (the Orde of Something)
I think that everybody claimed if they have or don''t have the doll. I need to check.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:05 am

No, Sironigous hasn''t claimed yet.
Naomi didn''t as well, but she has been lynched so it can''t have been her.
And L-K (Rock) claimed today.

Nobody has claimed to have the doll. So it''s either Sir or somebody is lying.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:45 am

dramonic wrote:Also, I know we've covered this before, but I've been rethinking about it lately...

Since the matches were a dropped item and their bearer mustn't die, isn't it BEYONG bastardly that the scum or SK could have just picked them up before town and we have a draw/lose just like that?

Isn't it a bit extreme?

Which is why I was thinking that the scum need it as well. As the manor contains the mind. But I''m waiting for Amished to respond to those questions about it.
As for the SK, he''d lose if he dies.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:46 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
ZazieR wrote:Flavour of N3 shows that we have a new SK.
Based upon the games, it''s very likely the player who posesses the idol with the soul, which is very likely the doll that dropped D3.

During N2, Xtoxm died, who was the body of John DeFoe. Due to this, the bridge went open for 1/3. The other two are the spirit (contained in the idol) and the mind (contained in the manor) of John DeFoe.
When all three are destroyed, the bridge fully opens and some God can enter this world then (if I remember it correctly)

I think that I have covered everything in this summary.
Don't we want the god to come here so he can take the evil people back into his dimension and torture them for eternity?

If the scum are the Order, they want the God to come.
It''s an EVIL God.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:53 am

Which means it destroys John DeFoe.
I don''t know why, but in the game, all three items got destroyed, but the God didn''t/couldn''t leave for one reason. I''m hoping Amished can tell us more.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:20 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:Because inactives are replaced. And iirc Siro got I don't deserve to be here thing.
Ah yes. Can you please quote that post? Can you find it?

Sironigous wrote:.. O M G.

I finally understand what Nyx meant.

Dev is 100% town. He has the same message as I do and as Nyx did.

Which is why Nyx asked this -
Nyx wrote:Do you deserve to be here ?
Dangit I should've paid more attention to my role PM, notice Nyx was also a vanilla.

If I die or someone finds out that I'm town, know that Dev IS NOT lying.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Lamont wrote:Right. I recall something about Trilby getting possessed briefly and then unpossessed? Maybe the doll-effect is only temporary?

Seems likely. The NK flavour stated ''this night''. So it could be that it was only for one night. The next night should tell us more.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:25 pm

Lamont wrote:I don't expect anyone to say. I think we are down to just Sironi now.

Very unlikely. He was V/LA. So I assume that the owner of the doll doesn''t want to come out.

ZazieR · Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:48 pm

Don''t like the Sir wagon due to bad reasons given with the votes.
I''d also like to hear why Sir over L-K (Rock) from Dramonic and Lamont as they wanted a Rock lynch both Day 2 and at the start of Day 3.

Will have to read 3 players to see who is the most scummy to me.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:39 am

Mod, can Amished be prodded?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:51 am

So you want to vote a lurker over somebody you think is suspicious?
Also, do you think Sir has the doll or not?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:10 am

populartajo wrote:Steph is so town.

Counterwagon go.

Vote : dramonic.

Zwet, who is scum?

I assume you mean Sironigous?
But yeah,

Vote Dramonic

, will look at the three players tomorrow.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:47 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh ya,

Unvote

Can you explain the reason why you unvoted?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:48 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Unvote; Vote: Light-Kun

Why L-K?

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:51 pm

L-K wrote:Then why do we have any talk about destroying the doll. We should protect it, right?

It depends. We win if we destroy all Evil characters. So if John DeFoe's spirit counts as Evil character, we need to destroy it.

ZazieR · Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:52 pm

L-K wrote:Also Dram, Zwet hasn't hammered all game cause there hasn't been any lynches.

Day 3, Naomi.

ZazieR · Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:46 am

Unofficial VC:
Sironigous (1) - Dramonic
Dramonic (5) - Stepho, Tajo, Zazie, Setael, L-K
L-K (3) - Dramonic, Lamont, Zwets

Not Voting (3) - Pyro, Sironigous, Amished

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

ZazieR · Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:46 am

ZazieR wrote:Unofficial VC:
Sironigous (1) - Deves
Dramonic (5) - Stepho, Tajo, Zazie, Setael, L-K
L-K (3) - Dramonic, Lamont, Zwets

Not Voting (3) - Pyro, Sironigous, Amished

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Fixed

ZazieR · Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:51 am

Amished wrote:Also, obviously, since in the game there was no way out until John Defoe was "killed" we need to make sure that the house isn't burning while we're inside of it.

Can you elaborate on this? What needs to be killed? As John consists out of three parts: Body, spirit and mind. But the manor contains the mind. Which means that that part can't be killed before we can leave the manor. So what is it?

ZazieR · Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:09 am

Amished wrote:The.. spirit? of defoe was killed at the end of the manor when the welders mask, apron, cleaver/whatever and the remains were all put together by trilby and gave the two other people that were left with him (another kid, and then a reporter iirc) stuff from John's brother and father to combat him in the spirit realm (basically) to put an end to his reign of terror in the manor. When he was killed like that, then trilby and the other two could leave the house (possibly while set on fire right after the possessed remains, for lack of better term, were killed.)

Long term, the manor was rebuilt to be in the timeline for the last game as well.

I think you mean the body. The body got destroyed in the first game, the spirit in the second and the mind in the last.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:52 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:Can we not have another no lynch today? Just saying.

Why did you point this out?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:05 am

Dramonic wrote:ZazieR: Tajo parroting (no case *coughscumscough*)

Wrong. I see 5 players as scummy and another as neutral.
2 of the scummy players and the neutral voted one of the other scummy players (Dramonic, Pyro and Lamonnt - Sironigous) Add that Sironigous had a nice post in which he soft-claimed. Which gives a bad wagon.
Then a counterwagon started on somebody I still saw as scummy.
Even better was when the fourth scummy player didn''t vote you (Zwet voted L-K)
So if we lynch you, we''ll get rid of a scummy looking player and we get a lot of information on 4 players. I''ll get the reasons why I see you as scummy up later.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:07 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:innocent

Why are you answering Pyro''s question?
Also, give reasons why you see Dramonic as town.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:10 am

Devestation wrote:
Vote: Light-Kun

Why?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:12 am

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh ya,

Unvote
Can you explain the reason why you unvoted?

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Unvote; Vote: Light-Kun
Why L-K?

Both of these got ignored and I want to hear the answers.

Lamont

and

Zwet

, answer.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Amished wrote:
I'll admit that I totally missed last night and didn't protect anybody

@Pyro: No, I do not have the doll, but how do you come up with zwet, LK, and Siro as probably not having it?
Hmmm, I wonder if these two statements are somehow related...

I don''t get what you are saying here. Can you explain it?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:19 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:I don't believe the assertion that scum don't want the doll holder around.
The doll holder is aligned with scum (at least temporarily)
.

Similar to a evil-sdied politician.

Please elaborate on the bolded.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:31 am

L_K wrote:Someone, how does the friggin game end?

I assume you mean ''How does the serie end?'' (there are 4 games)
In game one, the body gets destroyed. The spirit gets destroyed in the second game. At the end of the fourth, the manor got destroyed. According to the wiki, this happens after the third item gets destroyed in the last game:

The flaming petrol reaches and detonates the bomb, destroying the Hub, the manor containing DeFoe's mind, and allowing Chzo to bridge the Realms of Technology and Magick. In this incident, Theo suffers through terrible visions before his death.

However, instead of sending his own minions to the Scientific Realm, Chzo only brings Theo and the last surviving Trilby clone into the Ethereal Realm, the World of Magick, before the bridge closes once again. He transforms Theo, who has inadvertently become his acolyte as a result of the Blessed Agonies he has suffered: the Blessed Agony of the Body, due to his fall down the elevator shaft; the Blessed Agony of the Soul, due to the loss of Janine, whom he loved; and the Blessed Agony of the Mind, due to his traumatic experiences in the Order's complex and the visions before his apparent death. Chzo strips the Prince of his powers and grants them to the dying Theo, who becomes the New Prince. The New Prince easily defeats the former Prince (now called the Arrogant Man, his title before becoming the Prince in the Order's scriptures) and replaces him as Chzo's foremost servant. The Trilby clone is imprisoned and tortured by Chzo, who feeds on his agony.

L-K wrote:Hm.. I understand your point, but think about the evil characters, is it really so simple as to equal or outnumber the innocents? Maybe they are trying to obtain a particular goal, like summoning this beast. So, they would try to get town to bring the God out, which is for their win condition in my mind. On the other hand, we're to destroy evil characters. If we destroy the idol, house, person (xtoxm), then the god comes out and what of the other evil characters? They win, right?

According to the rules, they win when they at least equal the town. Though I do think bringing the God out is helpful to the scum.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:32 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:We don't even know that the god is even in this game.

Do you think he is or not? And why?
Will you also finally tell why you voted L-K?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:36 am

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:We don't even know that the god is even in this game.
Do you think he is or not? And why?

Will you also finally tell why you voted L-K?

And whose last post was full of indecision and nensensicalness?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:22 am

Is that all you have to say about the last posts, Dramonic?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:27 am

I''m asking it in general. Is there anything you want to respond to regarding one of the last posts made?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:30 am

One question Dramonic.
Why was it not a good thing to claim townie according to you?

Also, if Dramonic is scum, so is Zwet.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:32 am

Also,

Zwet

:

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:Can we not have another no lynch today? Just saying.
Why did you point this out?

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:innocent
Why are you answering Pyro''s question?
Also, give reasons why you see Dramonic as town.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:45 am

Is claiming townie scummy or not? Please answer with a yes or a no.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:46 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:I reclaimed. I'm pretty sure I claimed vanilla before the question.

Thanks for only answering the question why you answered Pyro''s question. Also, you didn''t claim before.
Will you now respond to the other question asked and the requested explanation here?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:51 pm

L-K wrote:Who thinks that destroying all three things is a good thing? a bad thing? Why?

I''m leaning towards a good thing, as all three are part of John DeFoe, an evil character. So we need to destroy him to win.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:15 pm

Lamont

I want to hear an answer why you unvoted Sironigous. (Post 3305)

It''s very unlikely that Amished has the doll. I also don''t see how he phrased it in a defensive way. Can you explain how he did according to you? (Post 3306)

If you think that claiming vanilla can be scummy, can you explain why you didn''t comment on Zwets claim? If it''s because it isn''t scummy to you, can you then explain why it isn''t? (Post 3309)

ZazieR · Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:15 pm

Stephoscope wrote:I hereby state, categorically and unequivocally, that I made no attempt to pick up the doll, and do not have it.

ZazieR · Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:03 am

Matches couldn''t be giving away. So it''s the question if the doll can.
But we can always try.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:55 am

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:I reclaimed. I'm pretty sure I claimed vanilla before the question.
Thanks for only answering the question why you answered Pyro''s question. Also, you didn''t claim before.
Will you now respond to the other question asked and the requested explanation here?

Zwet

, this^^

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:56 am

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont

I want to hear an answer why you unvoted Sironigous. (Post 3305)

It''s very unlikely that Amished has the doll. I also don''t see how he phrased it in a defensive way. Can you explain how he did according to you? (Post 3306)

If you think that claiming vanilla can be scummy, can you explain why you didn''t comment on Zwets claim? If it''s because it isn''t scummy to you, can you then explain why it isn''t? (Post 3309)

Lamont

, this^^

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:43 am

I disagree with a L-K lynch.
Sure, Rock was scummy. But Zwet and Dramonic have become much worse the last few pages. And Lamont has been put in my scummy list as well.
In other words, I'm not supporting a lynch which has so much scummy players on it. I'm happy with my Dramonic vote.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:53 am

Oh sorry. I thought we were dropping cases. I saw you aiming for a lynch on a player who was lurking. And Zwet was allowed to vote a player, because he saw that player as scummier than the other and never mentioned both of them

Oh well, as I'm not part of your scum team with Zwet, I can understand that you actually want reasons from me

In case you didn't understand, both paragraphs are sarcastic. However, both show that only the players who are voting you (Dramonic) have to state their reasons. While you (Dramonic) let those who are voting L-K alone without stating their reasons.
More on this later when Lamont has finally answered.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:04 am

But anyway, my reasons for voting you: PoE.
I can see 6 players as scum if we take the claimed powerroles as confirmed together with their results:
-Pyro
-Zwet
-Sir
-L-K
-Dramonic
-Lamont

Tajo is the only one of those who hasn't been confirmed of whom I get a town read. Lamont used to be on my neutral list of the remaining 6. Not anymore.
The way the Sironigous wagon started just screams scum. Leaving that one out. A new bandwagon formed on you (Dramonic) and I saw that one as much better. The same now goes for the L-K wagon. I'm not comfortable with it at all.
Leaving four wagons. My two main favorites of them are you and Zwet. And I'd be happy to lynch either of you as you two will give more information than a Pyro lynch and Lamont looks a bit better than the remaining 3.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:16 am

The names aren't in order. As said, I'd be much happier to lynch either Dramonic or Zwet.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:19 am

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont

I want to hear an answer why you unvoted Sironigous. (Post 3305)

It''s very unlikely that Amished has the doll. I also don''t see how he phrased it in a defensive way. Can you explain how he did according to you? (Post 3306)

If you think that claiming vanilla can be scummy, can you explain why you didn''t comment on Zwets claim? If it''s because it isn''t scummy to you, can you then explain why it isn''t? (Post 3309)

Lamont

, this^^

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:20 am

dramonic wrote:minimally I'd like Amished to give it away/say he is even if he doesnt have it, just to be clear, since I have very high suspicions he had it last night.

Why?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:20 am

Pyromaniac wrote:I think lamont has it.

Why?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:14 am

I disagree with bringing it down to two players. Scum will think that he targets one of the two and can take measurements against it if needed. So what we need is some extra stuff (Some good old WIFOM

):
I agree with Deves, however add Dramonic and Zwet in that list. If one of the latter turns up scum, we know where to look for more scum. So by investigating one of the latter, we get information to work with during the day.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:57 am

ZazieR wrote:
dramonic wrote:minimally I'd like Amished to give it away/say he is even if he doesnt have it, just to be clear, since I have very high suspicions he had it last night.
Why?

Dramonic

, this^^

And if you are gonna state who you want to have seen investigated, add some WIFOM to it. (This is for everybody)

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:23 am

But the quote mentions Amished, and you are talking about Lamont

See Post 3373 with what I mean with add some WIFOM. If everybody says towards Stepho to investigate Zaz, then the scum will also know who is likely going to be investigated. So you add some other players to the mix with reasons, to let the scum work with some circular logic during the night.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:42 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:zaz has no good reasoning for calling me scum. btw, my computer is having issues.

I don't

How do you know?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:42 am

And yeah Tajo, like that

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:07 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:zaz has no good reasoning for calling me scum. btw, my computer is having issues.
I don't How do you know?
because you're calling me scum for claiming vanilla townie, which I don't find particularly damning.

Why do you think that?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:07 am

ZazieR wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:I reclaimed. I'm pretty sure I claimed vanilla before the question.
Thanks for only answering the question why you answered Pyro''s question. Also, you didn''t claim before.
Will you now respond to the other question asked and the requested explanation here?

Zwet
, this^^

Hi, Zwet

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:15 am

With zero mafia members caught and a possible SK, yes, there is.
It seemed you were soft pushing the idea. But this doesn't match with the reason given.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:25 am

what?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:06 am

Because?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:13 am

No. He asked if we couldn't have one. And added 'just saying'. That's pointing something out to see what others will say. And by the question, it seems he was suggesting it softly. That was the soft pushing.
And now, he wants to retract it.

That's the impression I get.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:35 am

Then why is he the one who asked if we can't do another no-lynch?

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:39 am

'Can't we have another no-lynch?'
In other words: Isn't it possible for us to have another no-lynch?
And I want to know why he pointed this out as I see this as soft-pushing.

It's also nice to see how Dramonic points out that I 'lied', while he didn't do so when Zwet stated that I think he's scum for claiming Vanilla.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:21 pm

Tajo wrote:I read it as zwet asking for opinions on having another no lynch (I think the "just saying" at the end reinforces this idea) but Im prob not the best source since english is not my first language.

This.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:25 pm

Devestation wrote:
ZazieR wrote: I agree with Deves, however add Dramonic and Zwet in that list.
No ZazieR. You and/or Lamont, point blank. You know perfectly well that neither of those players have been running the general direction of questioning in this game. For trying to add in the extra factor that would decrease the chances of you being investigated,
FoS ZazieR
.

The same could apply for Lamont, but it would assume that you two are scumbuddies, and there is nothing else that would suggest that yet (apart from not particularly probing each other, which now that I think of it, is a giveaway).

Are you paying attention?
You are directing the cop. Thanks for stating your opinions, but if everybody just says that I should be investigated, it will only result in a giant arrow appearing above my head, pointing at me so that the scum can see who will be investigated. When they know, they can take measurements against it. How is that helpful?
So to make this more of a problem for the scum, you add some WIFOM. If you disagree, state why.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:25 pm

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont

I want to hear an answer why you unvoted Sironigous. (Post 3305)

It''s very unlikely that Amished has the doll. I also don''t see how he phrased it in a defensive way. Can you explain how he did according to you? (Post 3306)

If you think that claiming vanilla can be scummy, can you explain why you didn''t comment on Zwets claim? If it''s because it isn''t scummy to you, can you then explain why it isn''t? (Post 3309)

Lamont

, this^^

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:38 pm

50% at best. In other words, a big chance that it's not enough.
A question: What's the point in investigating me or Lamont? So that each player knows what the allignment is of one of the main contributors?
If so, please explain how it helps catch scum.

ZazieR · Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:53 pm

Where I have asked Lamont serious questions? Please look up a few posts. It's the that manieth time I have asked them towards Lamont, as he keeps ignoring them.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:06 am

No objections from me.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:55 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.

Ugh, jester speculation. Never useful. And also the worst version of the 'Too scummy to be scum'-fallacy.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:55 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.
You've got to be kidding me.
Unvote; Vote; Pyromaniac

Why does this speculation warrant a vote?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:02 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:also, it could be a coincidence but a useless player replaced a useless player.

Why do you call L-K useless?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:03 pm

dramonic wrote:By not claiming he's got us where we are now, speculating about maybe not lynching him.

He won't claim, clearly, I propose we end him, here and now.

No.

L-K

, claim. If you don't, give a reason why not.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:04 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:I don't like how L-K is soft claiming power role.

I don't like it that you are pointing something like this out.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:05 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:I wanted to hamma...

Explain why you have voted already. Until he's lynched, you can still be the hammerer. So I don't see the reason why you complain about this.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:06 pm

dramonic wrote:other question: I didn't see anything about it in the rules; is a bah post allowed?

Mod - Could you answer the above question?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:09 pm

dramonic wrote:Steph is male
Xtoxm is a SK, and the body of John DeFoe. We suspect stuff about the soul and mind, but I'll let you read, it's all explained.

An elaboration on this. He flipped SK. However, John DeFoe consists out of three parts and it seemed that we have now a new SK (Assumed due to the flavour of last night kill) which has very likely something to do with John DeFoe.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:10 pm

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont

I want to hear an answer why you unvoted Sironigous. (Post 3305)

It''s very unlikely that Amished has the doll. I also don''t see how he phrased it in a defensive way. Can you explain how he did according to you? (Post 3306)

If you think that claiming vanilla can be scummy, can you explain why you didn''t comment on Zwets claim? If it''s because it isn''t scummy to you, can you then explain why it isn''t? (Post 3309)

Lamont

, this^^

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:10 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:I don't like how L-K is soft claiming power role.
What? I didn't see that... If he DID do that he needs to full-claim otherwise its the rope.

Why?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:35 pm

So you are ignoring my questions. Why?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:57 am

Pyromaniac wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
dramonic wrote:Steph is male
Xtoxm is a SK, and the body of John DeFoe. We suspect stuff about the soul and mind, but I'll let you read, it's all explained.
An elaboration on this. He flipped SK. However, John DeFoe consists out of three parts and it seemed that we have now a new SK (Assumed due to the flavour of last night kill) which has very likely something to do with John DeFoe.
Most likely the doll, IMO.

Which includes the spirit of DeFoe.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:58 am

Pyromaniac wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:I don't like how L-K is soft claiming power role.
I don't like it that you are pointing something like this out.
WHy not?

If he's not scum, you're saying that the scum can find a possible powerrole at L-K.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:59 am

give doll to Light-kun

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:36 am

He just needs to claim. End of it.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:36 am

So

Lamont

, you even don't want to tell why you ignore my questions?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:07 am

Mod, could you prod Amished?

ZazieR · Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Give Doll to Light Kun

I don't like how Zaz's questions have progressively lost their insight and value.

Examples?

ZazieR · Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:25 am

Devestation wrote:
ZazieR wrote:So
Lamont
, you even don't want to tell why you ignore my questions?
/me slaps Lamont

Thank you. Hopefully he explains why he's ignoring them now.

ZazieR · Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:35 am

The one about you 'suggesting' a no-lynch, which I apparently misunderstood and this one you ignored?:

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.
You've got to be kidding me.
Unvote; Vote; Pyromaniac
Why does this speculation warrant a vote?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:42 am

ZazieR wrote:The one about you 'suggesting' a no-lynch, which I apparently misunderstood and this one you ignored?:

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.
You've got to be kidding me.
Unvote; Vote; Pyromaniac
Why does this speculation warrant a vote?

Both are questions for scumhunting.
First, you love to hammer. This is shown in many games. Even in this one. So I wanted to know why you asked, as you aren't the type to no-lynch.
Second, answer first.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:46 am

Now that we are talking about this again.

Zwet

, please rephrase what you were saying here:

Can we not have another no lynch today? Just saying.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:55 am

L-K wrote:Hm... how about a giant cup of wifom? I am the favorite for today's lynch. I cannot disprove this fact. However, what if we had the cop investigate me, so that the night kill is controlled to kill an innocent person with very little draw back. The cop may lose the investigation still, but the mafia will also somewhat waste a kill. If they decide not to waste the kill on me, I am proven innocent, and that is one step closer to finding scum AND we have whoever else they kill for information. My death supplies less as a lynch than it does control as the night kill. Even if the cop's investigation is wasted, I theorize this control (or attempted if th mafia are currently being controlled by the doll) would be extremely advantageous to us.

First of all, that's not WIFOM ._.
Anyway, no.
A question: How far are you with your read?

L-K wrote:Hm... the kills went weird of the potential serial killer, John Defoe (Xtoxm) died. Is it possible that the ability for the mafia to control their kill is linked to either his life and losing it until the doll is destroyed?

Rephrase?

Other than that, claim and explain your vote on Tajo.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:56 am

Actually, make that:

Zaz wrote:Other than that, claim and elaborate on your vote on Tajo.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:58 am

Pyromaniac wrote:Does anyone have any objections to me hammering?

Right now, yes.
Zwet and Lamont need to answer some questions. Both choose to ignore them.
And I want you to explain what happened to your thought of him being a jester.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:00 am

Devestation wrote:Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.

This.

Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:45 am

ZazieR wrote:
dramonic wrote:other question: I didn't see anything about it in the rules; is a bah post allowed?

Mod - Could you answer the above question?

Mod - Can you answer the above question? Also, can you tell us if the doll has been transferred to Light-Kun? And can you tell us if Amished has picked up his prod?

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:10 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
ZazieR wrote:Now that we are talking about this again.

Zwet
, please rephrase what you were saying here:
Can we not have another no lynch today? Just saying.
I'm sick of the no lynches and I don't want another one.

Strange timing if true.

ZazieR · Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:22 am

ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.
You've got to be kidding me.
Unvote; Vote; Pyromaniac
Why does this speculation warrant a vote?

And now this^^

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:00 am

ZazieR wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:So people who vote for you are scum? There are not 7 scum in this game. However, I would be hammering but I have a new theory. L-K is a jester. Rock's lurking, only posting meaningless shit looks exactly like a jester.
You've got to be kidding me.
Unvote; Vote; Pyromaniac
Why does this speculation warrant a vote?
And now this^^

zwetschenwasser wrote:It's scummy speculation.

Now with reasons why it's scummy specualation?
I want to hear if it makes sense for Pyro-scum to try and save L-K-town like this. If not, I want to know what the reason is why you switched your vote to Pyro.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:03 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
Devestation wrote:Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.
This.

Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.
Look I think your question is extremely stupid. I've already explained that I re-voted right after my unvote and that's all I'm going to say.

Not 'question', 'question

s

'
And no, you're going to give the reason why you unvoted Sir and you're going to answer the other two questions.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:06 am

Lamont wrote:1) The chances of scum making the excellent NK analysis that you did at the beginning of this day

2) Your extreme PM rolefishing expedition

1) Easy. It's called 'logic'. I don't see why this has anything to do with your read on me as both Zazie-town and Zazie-scum could have done it.

2) Never fished. Please show where you think I've fished.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:26 am

Percy wrote:But to answer your question, I think scum faced with a confirmed self-protecting doc and an unNKable powerrole cleared by a cop may be tempted to do something about it. Her arguments don't make much sense, either - saying Amished may be scum/vanilla begs the "what happened to hohum N1" question, for example, and claiming three incredibly powerful PRs with confirmable actions would be an incredibly gutsy and probably fatal scum move. Desperate scum or tilted town are the ways I can read ZazieR, but I'll have to see more of her "live" (so to speak) before I can make up my mind.

As said, it was the only reason why I could see powerroles in the game. Due to Hohum getting another day to live.
Also, I'd like to see your reasons why you disagree with what I said about the powerroles.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:29 am

Percy wrote:There are far stronger lynch candidates today. They are zwet, dramonic, and Pyro.

Pyro less than the other two though.

Unvote vote Zwet

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:31 am

Pyromaniac wrote:Damn I wish I knew L_C's alignment. The fact he hasn't been NKed makes me suspicious. And with his alignment we get a lot of info.

The second sentence is a desperate attempt to throw suspicion on Lamont.

ZazieR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:36 am

L-K wrote:Look: I am the favorite for today's lynch. I cannot disprove this fact. However, what if we had the cop investigate me, so that the night kill is controlled to kill an innocent person with very little draw back. The cop may lose the investigation still, but the mafia will also somewhat waste a kill. If they decide not to waste the kill on me, I am proven innocent, and that is one step closer to finding scum AND we have whoever else they kill for information. My death supplies less as a lynch than it does control as the night kill. Even if the cop's investigation is wasted, I theorize this control (or attempted if th mafia are currently being controlled by the doll) would be extremely advantageous to us.

No. Lynching you gets rid of a scummy player, scum will kill a player (perhaps two if the SK kills or none) and the cop can investigate. Decreasing the pool of suspects drastically. You want to waste an investigation. Not liking it one bit.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:38 am

Wikipedia wrote:Lenkmann arrives and reveals himself as a member of the Order.

Thanks for claiming bad guy, Pyro.
Another thing, N3, there was only a SK kill as we had discussed. No mafia kill. Your target as you've claimed was Siro. Yet, you voted him. How come?
And explain the reason for your protects. It makes no sense whatsoever that you didn't protect one of the confirmed players.
I also don't get why you wanted Lamont investigated. Elaborate.

(Need to look at the posts I've missed)

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:55 am

Meh, me and Star have had some 'issues' in the past. But she was right about one thing:
Get to know the theme.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:00 am

For Dramonic

He knows why

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:05 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:Sajin died AGAIN. Ugh. I can't tell anjything from this NK. My guess is that lamont is right and it does become aligned with the mafia, not an SK. Due to only one NK

Don't think so. The one who killed N3, took the clothes and killing weapon from the flipped killer. So either the effect of the doll has worn off or powerrole.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:08 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:My guess is that SOMEBODY has the matches now. And for the record, its not me.

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
As the town drags Sajin's body out to the yard for burial, you find a box of matches under his collapsed corpse. Every one of them is broken, utterly unusable.

Simulposted with the mod.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well based on the above post I am saying that there is only 3 scum and they MUST be:

zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

We just need to figure out which one we want to go first and we have this game locked.

Not liking this post. If you think all of them must be scum, what's the reason for waiting to figure out who should go out first?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:12 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

And right afterwards a change in stance. Why? And why Pyro of the three?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:16 pm

Post 3618 - Lamont fails to answer most, if not all, of Tajo's questions. Not liking that one bit.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:17 pm

dramonic wrote:Amished, how many protections do you have and what kind of ridiculous mindstate is it to not protect our most essential player 0_o

Still, I'm going to
Vote: Zwet

Why do you want to know how many protections Amished has left?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:23 pm

Amished wrote:Why is it that much of a stretch to believe that there's no way else that we'll be able to find to start a fire if need be? Hell, if I'm still alive at the end game and there's a fire in the fireplace (there was one in the game, who knows, we can't exactly explore the "manor") I'll spread the fire from the fireplace to the house.
I'd still win
. And who knows, maybe that's what's "fated" and it's what I should do anyways. I don't believe that one item will prevent us from all out winning.

Not liking the bolded.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:27 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:Tajo its over. You, Pyro and Zwet are scum.

Scum will unvote townies so what. That doesn't clear you.

I did alot of research much later than the post you quoted of me. Of course Vanillager claims are suspect, that's obvious.

Face it all 3 of you are done.
1)
Tell me why dodesnt your logic apply to me?
No. YOU show me where you referenced the town PM like the others did. I haven't seen it and NOBODY else has either.

2)
Also tell me why did you change your mind so radically when me and Amished asked for why you thought Pyro was town?
I said I had town vibes from him all game. That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all). Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

Not liking this post at all.
1. isn't that important, but if I'm correct, I did point it out when it happened. Need to look back.
2. is the one that makes this a bad post. Because he did vote Pyro. If this hasn't been explained yet, please do.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Lamont wrote:Does anybody really believe that the scum have the VT role PM??

I have been in at least one game where the role PM's weren't given in the OP. Scum was caught due to it duiring mass claim. I need to look if I have been in more games as I think I have.
I can't remember any game where this was the case, so no.

Lamont wrote:It is possible that we can No Lynch and let Stepho clear another person.

No.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:43 pm

Lamont

You and Tajo have this discussion that Tajo knows the role PM. Later, he shows you the unvote of Deves. You state that it's questionable what the reason was, though you assumed a reason when this vote was made:

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Unvote

Maybe Dev isnt the best lynch today.
Wait a minute... You're buying a vanillager claim??

Another thing I found after clicking the link:

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Unvote

Maybe Dev isnt the best lynch today.
Wait a minute... You're buying a vanillager claim??
You see no reason to believe Deves his claim from any post on this page?
Claiming vanillager helps the scum and cannot be proven.
You don't back down from a vanillager claim, you LYNCH a vanillager claim.

Elaborate on the bolded as you unvoted Siro after it was shown he most likely knows the Innocent role PM and why you didn't comment after Zwet claimed Innocent.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:47 pm

dramonic wrote:Usually bastard modding isn't completely designed to make the town lose. The match thing is already crippling enough, I doubt they have the role PM too.

Also, I'd like to make it clear, specifically for Tajo, unvoting someone who states the town PM doesn't make you town-confirmed. Scum knows who is town, therefore they can confirm any claim from a VT without being shown suspicious.

If I'm correct, the Deves claim was during D2. N1 had two kills, so even the scum couldn't have known who town is and who isn't as the second kill could have come from a SK or a second scumteam.
Add that Tajo unvoted right after Deves his flavour claim. So yes, it's very likely that Tajo knows the Innocent role PM.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:49 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:I think you could be the owner of the doll. And if am getting investigated then I will claim.

Why is this?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:07 pm

Lamont wrote:Look, I have accepted your defense as it is. You don't have to rub it in. If you ARE scum though (and the scum have the town role PM) then we are sunk and Zwet is prob-town.

Can you explain to how you came to this conclusion?

Lamont wrote:
The problem here is that Tajo can't be town here based on what we know about the town role PM
but he's claiming a part of it with the post he referenced. This is a problem because we must have 3 scum and one of them is claiming first hand knowledge of the town role PM!

Elaborate on the bolded.

Also, once again Lamont chooses not to answer.

Lamont_Cranston wrote:I am spooked by this entire situation. I'm going to take Tajo's basic reluctance to vote Pyro and his eagerness to vote Zwet as a sign for the safer lynch:

Vote Pyro

What do you mean with 'safer lynch'?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
tajo wrote:1. You said that Pyro gave you townie vibes and that he would be your last suspect based on process of elimination. Yet you vote him first before zwet or me. Why?
I am not going to keep addressing these silly points. I was only narrowing down a list for my vote. Once I found out that there had to be 3-4 scum I saw that I must of been mistaken about my "town vibes" for Pyro.

So of the three players you think must be scum, you vote the one who first gave you townie vibes? Nope, doesn't make sense.

Lamont wrote:
Tajo wrote:2. Why Zazier and Siro are confirmed town and I am confirmed scum based on the PM situation. What diferentiates me from them? Why I am the scum in this group? Why do you think there HAS to be scum in this group?
This is the scary part. The only thing that makes you different is that you didn't EXPLICITLY say anything about the town role PM where they did. It is very scary that you are bringing it up becuse IF it is true there is something very wrong with our calculations.

He unvoted right after the flavour claim. That does show it's very likely that he has the Innocent role PM.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Pyromaniac wrote:We should MC, imo. Or no lynch.

Why?

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:31 pm

Tajo

I was thinking of something and I'd like to hear your opinion of it. Due to Rule 13, do you think we can have the same situation as our game in which you cheated on me? (hint)
I think we have due to the list of possible scum through PoE and due to the claimed powerroles. There is only one other possibility I can see if this isn't the case.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:35 pm

Lamont wrote:Basically Zazier was the leader (following Deves). Technically Tajo unvoted first but he never really said specifically why. He had no prompt to unvote. He unvoted IMMEDIATELY after the claim but with no explanation. It was Zazier that provided the explanation.

He did have one. What happened:
Tajo votes Deves and asks for a claim. Deves claims vanillager. This lead to Tajo asking for the name mentioned in the role PM and he also asks for flavour. Deves gives the flavour and Tajo unvotes. During all this, we only hade Tajo and Deves talk.
Then came Lamont and I. Lamont questions Tajo's unvote and I question Lamont why he questions Tajo. During this, I explain why the paraphrased flavour is very likely correct to the claimed role.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:38 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh and btw based on our data Pyro HAS to be scum...

Uhm, no ._.
Based upon 'your data'.
Though Pyro is very likely to be scum. I think that Tajo is misplaced in that list.

ZazieR · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:43 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
populartajo wrote:
dramonic wrote:Tajo's claim is the weakest of the bunch though, since he approves a town PM, not produce it, if you get what I mean.

And Zaz confirmed it before he did, right?

So he could (as scum) safely say "yeah, I have that too" and unvote, knowing he's not suspicious cause someone who he KNOWS is town confirmed the PM before him.

So... Pyro, Tajo, Zwet and You.

Sounds about right?
I was the first unvoting Dev and "reacting" to his claim. If it isnt obvious by now, what he claimed is extremely similar to what I have on my PM.

I obviously didnt explain why I unvoted because I wanted to evaluate what kind of reactions Dev claim was going to produce. Zazie was good and thats why I think she is pretty much town. Lammont didnt react good at all and he was even asking why a vanilla claim made me unvote. He obviously doesnt have the same PM Dev claimed to have.

Lammont wrote:Yes his claim is the weakest but again the scary part here is the fact that he is bringing it up like he did it on purpose and he knew it.
Of course I unvoted with a purpose. Dev claimed a PM that is extremely similar to mine.

Why do you keep asuming that I am scum? Why cant you assume Im town with the same PM? Why did you react like you reacted to Dev claim?
Ok I will finally be very plain here:

Initially I didn't think to check my role PM and so I didn't catch it like some others did. As soon as it became obvious and I checked it I realized how it is a great rolefishing tool for scum and so I purposely remained silent -- even to the point of ignoring Zazier about it. I refused to cut a profile either way; that way scum wouldn't know for sure if I was vanilla or not.

That's it.

You want to say that you even didn't check when I pointed out why Deves was very likely telling the truth? How come you didn't check during that discussion?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:02 am

Percy wrote:As the latest result, this means one of two things: Either Stephoscope received the doll and is now on a scumteam with dramonic, or dramonic is innocent.

Do you think the former can be the case? I don't. Flavour isn't supporting this.

Percy wrote:I can read that into my predecessor's posts, but I'm not going to take that leap with ZazieR. Not until someone produces a quote.

Devestation wrote:The general gist of it is "your innocent, you really shouldnt be here but you are, get rid of the evil, you have a vote and your brains".

ZazieR wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:I can claim Bozo the Vanillager Clown and make the same post...
There are two things that aren't right in that post.
If he's an Innocent, it should say an Innocent and not "you're innocent" and the 'brain' is called differently. All the other things fit with my flavor.
So the only thing is that he didn't claim an Innocent, but said "you're innocent". As it's paraphrased, it's not a point against him.

Percy wrote:but I get a strong noob vibe from L_C anyway.

Strong noob vibe can either be a noob town vibe or a noob scum vibe. Which is it and can you elaborate on it?

Percy wrote:pop's arguments about the role PM in no way clear him.

Only if the scum have been given an example how the role PM of an Innocent looks. Otherwise it does for the reasons already stated.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:04 am

Devestation wrote:Crap, you people post too much. Biggest suspects FMPOV/IMHO are Zwet and to a lesser extent Lamont, but I'm not sure where the vote is at on Zwet so I don't want to accidentally hammer yet.

Did our cop(s) get ANY results last night?

Add Pyro to that list.
And Stepho has claimed that Dramonic belongs to the good guys/anti-sprits/etc. how you want to call it.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:06 am

ZazieR wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Lenkmann arrives and reveals himself as a member of the Order.
Thanks for claiming bad guy, Pyro.
Another thing, N3, there was only a SK kill as we had discussed. No mafia kill. Your target as you've claimed was Siro. Yet, you voted him. How come?
And explain the reason for your protects. It makes no sense whatsoever that you didn't protect one of the confirmed players.
I also don't get why you wanted Lamont investigated. Elaborate.

Pyro

, still this.

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:09 am

dramonic wrote:You wish for THAT to happen to me? I'm sorry Zazie ;_;

No, in my mind that was you

Normally, I show the whole image. But some players have called me violent due to my images ._. I don't see why. For example, this image shows a girl and some birds. What's wrong with that?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:10 am

Pyromaniac wrote:The scum could have a copy of the role. Having it does not clear you. My role PM does not mention the blessed order of agonies.

How did you know the full name of the Order?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:17 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:
dramonic wrote:Great, so we might now be unable to win the game and to top it off, odds are we are currently in MyLo

Also, update to the list!

dramonic
Cleared by Stepho

Stephoscope
Cleared by Naomi

Devestation
Cleared by Naomi

Amished
Cleared by Hohum/Elmo

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Sironigous
Pyromaniac
ZazieR
Populartajo

If we have 4 scum, which still sounds like a plausible amount to me for a 19 player game, we are now in MyLo

My gut says Tajo, but at this point in the game the scum can quickvote and lynch, so I'm not voting yet
Sironi cleared himself with the town PM. Zazier cleared hersel the same way.

That leaves:

Lamont_Cranston
zwetschenwasser
Pyromaniac
Populartajo

There is no way I'm voting for Pyro. That leaves
Tajo
or
Zwet
. I think we need to ISO these folks and figure out what is going on with them.
Looking at the above list, we've made no mistake. I say hang 'em all high!

Unvote, Vote Zwet

What happened to your previous reason for not wanting to vote Zwet, but Pyro?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:24 am

Stepho wrote:Lamont's claiming vanilla

Where?

ZazieR · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:27 am

Oh, and

Tajo

, can you wait with answering my question aimed at you till the next day?

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:31 am

hohum wrote:Hai!

Why did the scum team waste an NK on me when I was dead anyways?

They didn't. Possesed-Zazie killed you.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:34 am

KoC wrote:3.
Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters.
The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

KoC wrote:13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the
town/innocents
. You may be required to actually think, instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here* Get used to it. ithurtsithurtsirthurts

Mod

, please explain above quotes regarding the bolded. If you have read the game, you'd have known that it has caused some confusion as this can be interpreted as Innocents=town and I still don't see how it says something else than this.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:37 am

I also would like to know what you wrote to Setael regarding the matches,

Mod

. Mainly because of this quote:

Setael wrote:I do have something I need to post. I received a couple pms from the mod after asking for clarification. The matches are not transferable. I have to keep them and
I must be alive at end game for a town win. If I'm not alive at endgame the best the town can get is a draw.
The mod also confirmed that the scum do not need the matches to win.

Did you indeed say the bolded? Because if you did, you lied towards a player.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:41 am

And last, but not least,

Mod

, did you know you had made an error regarding the Caretaker's name? It should have been Malcolm and not Jonathan.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:41 am

Sajin wrote:Here is my PM:

Knight of Cydonia wrote:Ah, apologies.

These matches seem to be the only way to make fire in this house. They might come in handy if you ever escape this place - some houses deserve to be burnt down...

These matches must survive until end-game. You don't dare transfer them to another player, for fear you might pick the wrong person. If you are lynched or killed, the matches will break under your body when you die. You must survive, while carrying these matches, to the endgame for the town to achieve anything more than a draw.

So you did lie ._.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:58 am

I can see that now ._.

ZazieR · Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:34 am

So wait, if the House was left alive, but the Doll would have been destroyed, it would have been a draw no matter what? So if scum would have picked up the matches, town would never have been able to win?

Also, since when did we deal with Innocent-alligned when allignment is revealed as something else shown by Naomi's death? (Regarding this, why was Pyro's role not revealed with his allignment?)